The “Bowtie” And What It Means For Your Goals Part 2 (2157)

What if the real breakthrough comes after you’ve “made it”? In this episode, Kevin and Alan bring fresh insight to the “bow tie” concept, how your effort and results evolve, and why the smartest move is to keep giving your best long after success arrives. They share stories from their journey, lessons from world-class performers, and the mindset shifts that keep momentum building year after year. Listen now and start thinking about how you can keep your momentum growing.

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Show notes:
(3:46) Getting better without working more
(5:15) Why zero effort isn’t the goal
(8:12) Building career momentum early
(9:11) Meet your people. Chase your dreams. Level up your life with Next Level Group Coaching. https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/group-coaching/
(13:37) Avoiding the trap of coasting
(15:27) Keeping the underdog mentality
(17:49) Outro

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Chapters

• 3:46 Getting better without working more
• 5:15 Why zero effort isn’t the goal
• 8:12 Building career momentum early
• 9:11 Meet your people. Chase your dreams. Level up your life with Next Level Group Coaching.
• 13:37 Avoiding the trap of coasting
• 15:27 Keeping the underdog mentality
• 17:49 Outro

Transcript

Kevin Palmieri

(0:00) It's not about it getting easier, it's about getting to the place where you put the same amount of effort in and you get more out of it. (0:09) Life's not easier, you just get more out of hard.

Alan Lazaros

(0:12) Eventually you earn your stripes in a given space, given industry, that's why the bow tie works the way that it does. (0:18) People unconsciously look up to people who have earned it over time. (0:24) Welcome to Next Level University.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:26) I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri. (0:28) And I'm your co-host, Alan Lazarus. (0:31) At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros

(0:38) Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health, and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:44) We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits, and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros

(1:00) Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free. (1:06) Welcome to Next Level University.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:12) Next Level Nation today for episode number 2157. (1:16) We're going to do a little revisit of the bow tie. (1:19) So this is going to be bow tie part two.(1:21) Again, the idea behind the bow tie is at the beginning, you put level 10 effort in, you get level zero results. (1:26) Then you put level nine effort in, you get level one results. (1:29) And eventually, it's supposed to go...(1:32) If you think of the way a bow tie is, it's hard to explain from a visual standpoint. (1:38) I got it. (1:38) Do we have...(1:39) Okay. (1:39) Yeah. (1:40) Explain visually.

Alan Lazaros

(1:42) So imagine there's a graph, X and Y axis. (1:46) And you've lost everybody already.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:48) No, no, no. (1:49) We remember graphs. (1:51) I don't fucking...(1:52) I'm in spreadsheets all day. (1:53) And if you said, I'll give you a million for the X axis, it's like...

Alan Lazaros

(1:57) Horizontal axis and... (1:58) Thanks. (1:58) Thank you.(1:59) So X is the horizontal axis. (2:00) Okay. (2:01) Y is the vertical axis.(2:02) Boom, right there. (2:03) If you're on YouTube, I'm using my arms. (2:06) All right.(2:07) There's going to be one arrow going from the bottom up and another arrow going from the top down. (2:14) The vertical axis is results. (2:22) Results out.(2:23) Yeah, yeah, yeah. (2:25) The X axis is time. (2:32) No, no, no.(2:34) I've screwed this whole thing up.

Kevin Palmieri

(2:36) Yeah. (2:36) Okay.

Alan Lazaros

(2:36) Let's rephrase.

Kevin Palmieri

(2:37) We're starting over.

Alan Lazaros

(2:38) Do we just forget the whole thing? (2:39) No, no, no. (2:39) I got this.(2:40) I got this. (2:40) All right. (2:41) An arrow goes from the bottom to the upper right.(2:43) The other one goes from the upper left to the bottom. (2:46) One of the arrows represents results out. (2:49) The other arrow represents effort in.(2:51) So effort in is 10 at the beginning. (2:53) And picture a bow tie. (2:54) It's like an X.(2:56) It's 10 at the beginning for zero results. (2:59) And then by the end, it's 10 results out for zero. (3:01) And Joe Rogan's a good example of this.(3:03) Okay. (3:03) In podcasting, Joe Rogan could never podcast again. (3:07) And he could retire right now.(3:10) And he would still have the most successful podcast for a very long time. (3:13) Zero effort in for level 10 results out, but only because he's been podcasting since 2009 every single week.

Kevin Palmieri

(3:24) We're going to have to figure out a good visualization for that, for that, because that's a tough one. (3:30) Let me create a digital asset. (3:32) We're going to have to create it.(3:33) Well, this is dropping tomorrow, so I don't think we're going to have time. (3:35) I got this. (3:36) Okay.(3:37) I'm doing it. (3:38) Alan's going to create a digital asset, and then we're going to know. (3:40) You can literally- Show notes.(3:41) You're going to have this up. (3:42) You're going to have the digital asset up while you just heard us talk about that. (3:45) That's good stuff right there.(3:46) Okay. (3:47) The point I want to make that we didn't have time to make in the previous episode is that it's not about... (3:55) Okay.(3:56) Let's say in the beginning, you put in level 10 effort and you get level zero results, right? (4:03) Let's say, hypothetically, you don't stop putting in level 10 effort. (4:08) You continue to put in level 10 effort, but then it goes to level one results.(4:13) Then you keep doing level 10 effort, but you get better at level 10 effort, and then it goes to level three results. (4:19) Eventually, it gets to a place where you're putting in level 10 effort and it's moving up. (4:23) It's moving to level five results, level six results, level seven results.(4:29) Essentially, you feel like you're winning because you're doing the same thing you've been doing, but better, and you're just getting way better results. (4:37) Taryn said to me the other day, I was like, it's so interesting. (4:40) I just went on a podcast and they asked me to work with them, essentially.(4:44) I was like, it's just fucking weird. (4:46) I said, it feels like the bow tie is starting to flip a little bit. (4:49) What was it like in the beginning?(4:50) In the beginning, I couldn't pay somebody to work with us. (4:55) In the beginning, it would be like, I'll do it for free, and people would still say no. (4:59) That's just how it is in the The problem is, and I think the problem with explaining the bow tie, if we don't go deep, is the goal is not to get to a place where you're putting in level zero effort and getting level 10 results, because that is not where fulfillment is.(5:15) You're not going to be fulfilled if you're just sitting around getting results. (5:19) Certain pieces are good and there's happiness and there's opportunity and whatever, but that's not why you started this in the first place. (5:26) Well, let me share it this way, please.

Alan Lazaros

(5:29) So when you're, and again, when you're 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, you're supposed to be building a career.

Kevin Palmieri

(5:41) Wait, wait, you just said 10, 20, 30, 40. (5:44) Did you say 10, 20, 30, 40, 50? (5:45) Yeah.(5:46) Of age? (5:49) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(5:49) You're building a career at 10? (5:51) I do think that that would be very smart. (5:55) Okay.(5:55) Well, so when you're 10, you're supposed to, supposed to, in quotes here, you're supposed to try to do well in school. (6:01) Why do people want to do well in school? (6:03) Because they want to get a good job.(6:04) Why do they want to get a good job? (6:05) So they can make more money. (6:07) I do believe we would do, I'm speaking, actually, I haven't even told you this yet.(6:11) I'm speaking to 14 to 18 year olds in a month, I think at the end of the month, and they're 14 to 18. (6:19) And I'm trying to figure out how to explain to them, start thinking about your career now. (6:25) Because I've been doing something called the next level wealth builder with people.(6:29) And I took one of my clients through, shout out to you, I know you're listening. (6:33) And she realized in hindsight, that she had no, she was just winging it. (6:39) Like she worked at Dunkin Donuts because her brother worked there.(6:41) She worked at Papa Gino's because her boyfriend worked there. (6:44) She, she didn't, she wasn't building a resume or a career. (6:48) Whereas when I was younger, I was always thinking about what my, what this meant for my career.(6:52) How does this tie to the bow tie? (6:54) Okay. (6:55) In your tens, twenties, thirties, forties, and fifties.(6:58) And some people do, they start getting allowance at like 12 or 14 or whatever. (7:02) When was the first time you got money?

Kevin Palmieri

(7:04) Oh, dude, I don't know. (7:05) I couldn't even tell you.

Alan Lazaros

(7:06) No idea. (7:07) I never got a consistent allowance. (7:08) When was the first time you got a job?(7:10) Oh, 16. (7:11) Okay, cool. (7:12) All right.(7:12) So, okay. (7:13) 16, you start your career. (7:15) You don't call it a career, but it's your career, right?(7:18) You're building a resume. (7:19) Okay. (7:20) So then when you reach 50, 60, 70, the reason why retirement is a concept is because that's when you step off the gas and you start to just, but you don't get less results.(7:32) We have a client who's called retirement transformed. (7:34) They're not getting less results in retirement. (7:36) They're getting more results in retirement and they're not off the gas completely, obviously, but they're not putting in level 10 effort compared to when they were in their thirties.(7:45) For sure. (7:46) When you're 20 years old, you have to put level 10 effort just to get mediocre results, unless it's athletics. (7:53) In athletics that it's different because it starts younger, right?(7:56) If you girls that start dancing at seven, you understand what I'm saying. (8:00) But when it comes to your career, statistically speaking, you really don't hit the pinnacle of your career until you're in your forties and fifties. (8:09) That's a very common thing if you research this.(8:12) 80% of the world's wealth is in the hands of people 55 and older. (8:16) So you can work less later on if you choose and still get ridiculous results because you learn leverage, you learn how to be more effective with your time. (8:27) And that's why I think let's say you built a company and then you're now 60 and now you hire someone else to run the for you.(8:38) You still own the company. (8:39) Now it just pays dividends forever. (8:41) And same with an investment portfolio, same deal.(8:43) So ultimately though, the point of this is when you're in the beginning, it's always going to be terrible because you're going to basically, when you first started working out, you probably got quick results. (8:53) So that's probably a bad example. (8:55) But usually when you first start something, you really don't know anything.(8:59) You don't know what you're doing. (9:00) You're usually terrible in comparison to anyone who's good. (9:03) And then you learn over time how to get better and better and better.(9:06) And then you can kind of dominate everybody without even trying that hard.

Kevin Palmieri

(9:12) Next level nation. (9:14) What is happening? (9:15) If you've thought to yourself, I want to try coaching, but you don't really know where to start.(9:20) Group coaching would be a wonderful place for you. (9:22) That's really why we created it in the first place. (9:25) We start a new round every 90 days.(9:28) So if you're hearing this, go to the website, nextleveluniverse.com. (9:32) And we have the landing page where you can actually hold your spot right now. (9:36) Even if there's a group going on right now, you can still lock your spot for the next one.(9:41) The biggest thing that we've seen is as we get closer and closer to the date, unfortunately some people end up missing. (9:47) The group fills up and they can't do it. (9:49) And then they end up regretting that.(9:50) So please head over to the website. (9:52) The link will be in the show notes and we would love to see you there. (9:56) Well, that's my big point is instead of just getting to the place where the bow tie flips and then taking it easy, just keep pushing.(10:07) It's easier to push now than it was in the beginning because things are more sustainable. (10:12) So if we just keep giving, I mean, right now it's not sustainable. (10:16) What we're doing right now is not sustainable.(10:18) But let's say you hit a place of sustainability. (10:23) And again, I know that's not your focus, but for me, let me say, I'm trying to hit a place of like, how do I perform like this every week and not die? (10:30) Right?(10:31) It's a good goal. (10:32) It's a good goal to have. (10:34) Number one, I get better at performing.(10:36) Number two, my lifestyle increases. (10:37) So I get better rest. (10:39) My R and R is more intentional.(10:41) I have more opportunities. (10:43) I can get a massage, whatever, right? (10:44) Whatever.(10:45) And I'm able to put more on the court. (10:47) If I put level 10 on the court and I could just skate on putting level five on the court, I'm going to get more than 10 back. (10:58) That is what nobody talks about in the bow tie.(11:01) They don't ever talk about what happens if you keep putting level 10 in. (11:04) They assume that you're going to get to a place and you just stop. (11:10) So I went and played golf yesterday, big Sunday, big, big golf day on a Sunday, right?(11:15) Big golf day. (11:17) Me and my brother-in-law, Tim, shout out to Tim. (11:19) I don't think you're listening, but if you are, it was a good time.(11:21) So we go. (11:22) Kev is evolving. (11:23) I'm evolving.(11:24) It's good. (11:25) It's a good story. (11:26) We get paired up with this guy.(11:28) He's like, hey, I'm your third. (11:30) It's like, first of all, I want to golf alone. (11:32) I'm fucking terrible.(11:33) Please leave. (11:34) Great dude. (11:34) Shout out to Shane.(11:35) If you're listening, I told you about the podcast, you might be listening. (11:37) Shout out to you, brother. (11:38) Great time.(11:39) And he's, what do you do in the world? (11:42) I asked that question. (11:43) What do you do?(11:44) I mean, what do you do? (11:45) I said, I'm a podcaster. (11:46) He's like, what do you mean?(11:47) I know it doesn't make any sense. (11:48) Okay, cool. (11:49) What do you mean it doesn't make any sense?(11:51) I always have to explain it. (11:52) I explain the, we produce podcasts. (11:54) We coach podcasters.(11:55) We're speakers. (11:56) It's a whole thing. (11:56) I can understand how it's confusing.(11:58) How old is this man? (12:00) This man is in his thirties. (12:02) I'm guessing.(12:03) Mid? (12:03) Nah, mid, probably. (12:05) And he doesn't know podcasts?(12:06) No, he knows podcasts, but nobody knows how you make money from podcasts. (12:09) They don't know how you do it full time. (12:10) Okay.(12:12) Golfed with him all day. (12:13) Great. (12:13) Buddy, buddy by the end of it.(12:14) I had this moment where I'm leaving and he sees me drive away and I'm thinking in my mind, am I, do I look more or less successful leaving than he thought I was? (12:27) Cause I have a nice car. (12:28) Probably more depending on his preconceived notion of what podcast.(12:31) And then part two, does he assume I just take it easy?

Alan Lazaros

(12:36) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(12:37) Like all the time that I think that's why the bow tie is so confusing because it suggests, I said we're 2,150 something episodes in, it's this whole thing. (12:49) And then I look quote unquote successful. (12:50) But the truth of the matter is I am working the hardest I've ever worked right now.(12:54) For sure. (12:55) For sure. (12:56) And on a consistent clip.

Alan Lazaros

(12:57) We're also doing it very different than.

Kevin Palmieri

(12:59) Well, but that's the lesson for you out there. (13:01) That's my next level lesson is there are certain fundamentals. (13:07) There are certain success fundamentals and certain success principles that you are aiming for.(13:11) The bow tie is one of them, but it does not mean you have to do it the way they talk about it. (13:16) It doesn't mean you have to only get to a place where you put in level two effort and get level eight results. (13:22) You can continue putting level 10 effort in and you're going to get some really wild results that almost nobody else is going to get because they're, they're getting to the point where they can live off their momentum.(13:32) If you never get to the point where you want to live off your momentum, you're going to have way better results than everybody around you. (13:36) For sure. (13:37) Absolutely.(13:37) That's my takeaway.

Alan Lazaros

(13:39) There's a metaphor that is coming to mind that Kobe Bryant used to talk about this. (13:45) And I don't, I don't like to use certain examples because I don't necessarily want to be associated with certain people, but whatever. (13:51) I think that just, it's a great metaphor.(13:54) Kobe used to say he made a decision with himself at 13 years old to be one of the best basketball players to ever live. (14:01) And he just started playing with his left hand, playing to his weaknesses every single day for a days. (14:07) And when he got into the NBA, he thought it was going to be harder.(14:11) And he was like, he realized most people's grind. (14:15) And most of the people that got to the NBA, they were usually a lot of times they were struggling, do whatever it takes. (14:21) And then once they got the big contract and they were in the NBA and they started getting paid, now they're playing not to get injured.(14:27) They're just playing not to lose the money. (14:29) Money was a big motivator, understandable for some of them, right? (14:32) It makes sense.(14:33) Start from the bottom type of thing. (14:35) But Kobe, when he got to the NBA, he literally said, no wonder why Michael Jordan wins all these fucking championships. (14:39) Nobody tries once you're in the NBA, they stop working.(14:42) Everybody steps off the gas. (14:44) Now, obviously this is a blanket statement. (14:45) There's some people that work unbelievably hard in the NBA.(14:48) And by the way, you obviously have to work hard just to be there. (14:50) But in Kobe's mentality, he realized that people worked harder in college or in high school to get to the NBA than once they're in the NBA. (15:01) And I have found that to be very fascinating.(15:04) When you get a certain amount of success, like when I said to someone recently that we had a hundred thousand dollar month in business, in their mind, it's like, well, why do you guys grind still? (15:15) Like, why are you guys working so hard? (15:16) Like, why don't you take a trip or something?(15:18) And it's because that's not the fucking goal. (15:20) My goal is not to make money, to have more trips. (15:24) My goal is to change the world.(15:27) And I think that it's a good metaphor because most people, when they start to win, they do step off the gas unconsciously. (15:35) That's actually a fear of mine, a genuine fear. (15:39) Kevin and I, I have purposely kept a minimal amount of money in our bank account to make sure we have necessity.(15:44) I am purposely putting us in scarcity to make sure that we are fully ignited. (15:49) I don't want us to lose our underdog, dude. (15:51) I mean, straight up, this is an actual concern.(15:55) And I'm sharing a lot with all the listeners right now. (15:57) Like Kev, when you get around people who golf, I've been on golf courses. (16:01) I worked at a golf course.(16:02) Golf courses have a certain mindset. (16:05) It's a certain tribe that has a certain mindset. (16:06) And their mindset is make money with your money while you golf.(16:09) That's the mindset. (16:11) And so he would, that person, if they're a golfer, and this is statistically speaking, most golfers, they strategize on the course on how to work less and earn more. (16:21) That's what golfers do.

Kevin Palmieri

(16:23) I'll tell you right now, I'm strategizing on how not to fire my ball into the fucking woods. (16:28) Well, that is my strategy. (16:29) That is it.

Alan Lazaros

(16:29) But do you understand the mindset? (16:30) A hundred percent. (16:32) Statistically speaking, that's what golfers do.(16:34) They strategize in the golf course, business meetings, blah, blah, blah. (16:37) Many of my mentors, millionaires, all this stuff. (16:39) I know what that mindset is.(16:41) I have many mentors that are trying to earn money with their money. (16:44) They're not trying to work harder. (16:45) And for you and I, that would be very detrimental because in the Kobe Bryant metaphor, we're trying to be the best in the world at what we do.(16:53) And I think that that's important to understand. (16:55) So if you're out there and you want a higher quality of life, you're going to have to put in a lot of effort in the beginning. (17:00) Whenever you start something, you have to put in a lot of effort for very minimal results.(17:03) But if you keep putting in the effort, it does, it compounds. (17:06) It's a compound effect. (17:07) It's unbelievable.(17:08) I mean, Emilia and I, she's 30, I'm 36. (17:10) What we can do now with our capital, with our time, with our effort, it's exponentially larger than what we could do 10 years ago. (17:17) I can't understand someone's career until I know their age.(17:21) You have to base it on age. (17:25) What is considered success at 60 is completely different than at 15. (17:30) For sure.(17:30) Yeah, for sure.

Kevin Palmieri

(17:32) I got to hop because I have a coaching call in 40 seconds. (17:35) Nice. (17:35) Next Level Nation, private Facebook group for amazing people like you trying to grow and get to the next level.(17:39) We have the Dreamliner, we have meetups, we have book club every Saturday. (17:42) There's a whole bunch of stuff at NLU. (17:44) So if you are somebody who is very into self-improvement, personal development, very clear you are, there's a place for you.(17:49) As always, we love you, appreciate you, grateful for each and every one of you. (17:52) And if you are as dedicated, as focused as you say you are to getting to the next level, make sure you tune in tomorrow because we will be here every single day to help you get there. (18:02) Keep reaching toward your full potential.(18:04) Next Level Nation. (18:07) Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. (18:11) We love connecting with the Next Level family.

Alan Lazaros

(18:14) We mean it when we say family. (18:16) If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. (18:19) Everything you need to get ahold of us is in the show notes.(18:23) Thank you again, and we will talk to you tomorrow.