Being Reactive Won't Get You To The Next Level (2192)

From reaction to creation. In this episode, Kevin and Alan share why reactivity keeps you chasing your tail and how proactive thinking opens the door to real growth. From root cause analysis to the power of awareness and simple guess-and-check strategies, you’ll hear why shifting your mindset from quick fixes to long-term solutions is the secret to building success that lasts. Listen now and discover how to stop reacting and start creating your next level.

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Show notes:
(3:04) Micro Vs. Macro-level thinking
(4:11) Survival mode blocks long-term planning
(7:45) Root cause analysis and bottlenecks
(10:45) Guess-and-check learning in real life
(17:20) Proactivity, intelligence, and deductive reasoning
(19:17) Outro

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Chapters

• 3:04 Micro Vs. Macro-level thinking
• 4:11 Survival mode blocks long-term planning
• 7:45 Root cause analysis and bottlenecks
• 10:45 Guess-and-check learning in real life
• 17:20 Proactivity, intelligence, and deductive reasoning
• 19:17 Outro

Transcript

Kevin Palmieri

(0:00) I used to take pride in my ability to have something happen and react, and now looking back I realize that that was not very helpful for me being more successful.

Alan Lazaros

(0:11) There's a book called The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. (0:14) I aspire to be highly effective, and one of them is proactivity. (0:18) Welcome to Next Level University.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:21) I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri. (0:23) And I'm your co-host, Alan Lazarus. (0:26) At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven, but no-BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros

(0:32) Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health, and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:39) We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits, and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros

(0:54) Self-improvement, in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free. (1:01) Welcome to Next Level University.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:07) Next Level Nation, today for episode number 2,192, being reactive won't get you to the next level. (1:13) I want you to imagine this. (1:15) Alan and I are fishing.(1:16) Doesn't happen often, maybe once a year at this point. (1:19) And there are these kids coming down the river, drowning. (1:23) And I dive- I'm a crackazoe.(1:25) Crackazoe. (1:25) I dive headfirst into the water. (1:28) And Alan says, dude, what are you doing?(1:29) And I say, I'm trying to save these freaking kids. (1:31) See the kids in front of me? (1:32) They're drowning.(1:33) I gotta save them. (1:34) Alan turns and starts hoofing it upstream. (1:37) And I say, brother, what the fuck are you doing?(1:39) The kids are here. (1:40) And Alan says, I gotta figure out where these kids are coming from. (1:43) They're not- they're coming from upstream somewhere.(1:45) There's a book called Upstream. (1:47) Is it by Dan Heath? (1:48) Yes.(1:49) Great book. (1:50) I just started it again. (1:51) I've already read it a couple times.(1:52) Great author. (1:52) I love his books, man. (1:53) And that is how he opens the book.(1:55) He opens the book by saying, many of us catch a problem when it is downstream. (2:01) So today. (2:02) But we're not figuring out where that problem is actually coming from in the first place.(2:07) And Tara and I were driving back from upstate New York. (2:10) And I had just finished Thinking Abets. (2:13) And I was like, what am I going to listen to?(2:15) Well, I'm not going to pull over and download another book. (2:17) Let me just see what I got in Audible. (2:19) And I love this book.(2:20) This is a really, really powerful book. (2:22) And this is definitely a weakness of mine in the past. (2:24) And I guess to this day, it's something I'm working on.(2:26) There's a big difference between upstream thinking and downstream thinking. (2:30) Go ahead, friend.

Alan Lazaros

(2:32) I've been sending Kev clips behind the scenes of 1982, 1984, 1987.

Kevin Palmieri

(2:38) So wild. (2:39) Yeah. (2:39) So wild.(2:39) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(2:40) The one I sent you today was of the very first big-ass CD, when they went from records to CDs. (2:48) Fascinating.

Kevin Palmieri

(2:48) It is fascinating.

Alan Lazaros

(2:49) The reason I mentioned that is because this concept, I think it's really critical to zoom out every now and then. (2:59) We've talked about microscopic thinkers and macroscopic thinkers. (3:04) Microscopic thinkers are jumping in the water to save the kids.(3:06) Macroscopic thinkers are saying, why are all these kids drowning? (3:11) There's all these quotes. (3:13) I'm going to give a couple of them.(3:15) One of them is, you hear business coaches say this shit all the time. (3:19) You got to work on your business, not in your business. (3:23) First of all, you need to fucking do both.(3:25) There's a whole bunch of other ones. (3:27) Clouds and dirt. (3:29) So you can't always be up in the clouds.(3:30) You got to get your hands dirty. (3:32) And then some people, it's, well, you got to, you know, and then there's the forest versus the trees. (3:36) There's all these fucking quotes, right?(3:38) Seriously. (3:38) They all refer to this. (3:40) Quality versus quantity, all this stuff.(3:42) It's always both. (3:45) So Kevin and I are a good team because when we first started, I was thinking about the next 50 years. (3:50) He was thinking about only now.(3:53) And we've driven to five. (3:55) And now I'm thinking more short-term, mid-range, and long-term. (4:05) He's thinking more long-term and more macroscopically.(4:11) So the question becomes, how do you become more proactive? (4:14) And more importantly, in that book, Dan Heath talks about how when you're fighting paycheck to paycheck and fighting just to survive, you basically can't think long-term.

Kevin Palmieri

(4:24) And how crazy is that? (4:26) Not crazy from the thought of, it was something along the lines of people who are poor. (4:35) Yeah.(4:36) It was like, I don't remember the exact stat, but it was if you're poor, like below a certain threshold, your day-to-day experience is essentially like getting four hours of sleep every night. (4:45) Something like that. (4:45) Which you're in what's called dorsal collapse.

Alan Lazaros

(4:48) So you're constantly in fight, flight, freezer, fawn, and your whole system, your central nervous system is just shot. (4:56) And that's why I said to you not long ago, we've had a really good run lately. (5:00) And again, it's all relative, of course, but I need to put myself back in the pressure cooker because if you get too comfortable...

Kevin Palmieri

(5:09) I was on a podcast today talking about this and I was reflecting and I was like, dude, I don't know if you know how bad it was for me. (5:15) No, of course not. (5:16) I mean, you couldn't, right?(5:17) Yeah. (5:17) But I was thinking back to like the whole couldn't afford Christmas presents. (5:22) Like, dude, Jesus.(5:24) Oh, when I look back at that, this is the worst part real quick.

Alan Lazaros

(5:28) This is the worst part about... (5:31) You like it. (5:32) Yeah, of course.(5:34) You and I are sitting on a goddamn microphone right now and you're talking about it. (5:40) That doesn't, that's nothing. (5:42) That doesn't, I don't experience it.(5:45) What it actually is versus talking about it is so drastically different. (5:51) It's not even funny. (5:53) Like, okay.(5:54) It's fair. (5:54) Ready? (5:55) Here's a statement.(5:56) Kevin and I have built a business that at the end of 2025, over the last eight years, we'll have accumulated gross revenues of $1.7 million. (6:06) That is a mathematical fact. (6:08) That took me what?(6:09) Five seconds? (6:12) How was that eight years? (6:14) It was, it's impossible to explain how atrociously challenging and rewarding that was.(6:22) One of my biggest pet peeves about what we do for a living is how fucking hard it is to explain what it actually is like versus what people talk about.

Kevin Palmieri

(6:33) Well, speaking of explaining what it's like, let's get back. (6:35) Because I know we don't have a ton of time to do this episode. (6:37) I want to make sure we do it justice so we don't have to do four parts on this.(6:42) Some, so this is always, not always, this has been my thing recently. (6:46) When something goes wrong with anything we're doing with the client, first question I ask is what happened? (6:54) Second question I ask is how do we avoid this happening again?(6:58) What happened right now? (7:00) There's a kid in the water. (7:02) Let me go fish him up, right?(7:04) What happened? (7:04) That's right now. (7:05) And where the hell is this kid coming from?(7:07) Where are these kids coming from? (7:08) What are we, what are we doing here? (7:09) That's a weird metaphor, man.(7:10) Where'd you get this? (7:11) That's from the book. (7:12) Is that, okay.(7:13) Yeah, yeah, that's from the book.

Alan Lazaros

(7:14) That's from the book. (7:15) I thought they did salmon, didn't they? (7:17) No, they did human children.(7:20) They did human children. (7:21) That's not good. (7:21) It's great.

Kevin Palmieri

(7:22) I think I changed it to salmon. (7:23) No, that is the best example ever. (7:25) Salmon can swim.

Alan Lazaros

(7:27) Yeah, that's a great point. (7:28) Though, they're fine whether they're upstream, downstream. (7:30) But if the salmon run out downstream and the salmon run.(7:33) Look, nobody.

Kevin Palmieri

(7:34) The salmon of the Capistrano. (7:36) Nobody knows what salmon do. (7:38) But they, if they see a little, if they see a little.(7:40) Okay, fair. (7:41) Little JB floating down the river. (7:43) They're going to say there's something astray here.

Alan Lazaros

(7:45) Something astray. (7:46) Root cause analysis. (7:47) This is what I wrote down on my remarkable upstream and downstream root cause analysis.(7:51) You have to solve the problem first. (7:53) Plug the hole. (7:54) Plug the hole in the boat.(7:55) What's the issue? (7:56) Plug it. (7:58) Then you have to figure out why the hole got there.(8:01) How? (8:01) And I think that. (8:02) What's the process?

Kevin Palmieri

(8:05) What's the process? (8:06) So, this is something that comes relatively natural to you. (8:08) And through years and years of engineering and all that.(8:11) If you're explaining this to me. (8:13) Like, I've never done this.

Alan Lazaros

(8:17) I'm going to challenge you. (8:19) I appreciate it. (8:19) I do.(8:20) This is good. (8:22) You have to first get curious as to why. (8:26) So, that's step one is get really curious as to why.(8:30) That's why I say turn your frustration into fascination. (8:32) So, whenever I'm frustrated with a team member or with Kevin. (8:36) I first get.(8:37) I go, okay. (8:39) Why? (8:39) Okay.(8:40) Frustration is a byproduct of someone is in the way of a goal. (8:44) Or something is in the way of a goal. (8:46) Okay.(8:47) What are they? (8:47) What's the bottleneck? (8:48) Target the constraint.(8:49) Okay. (8:50) What's the issue? (8:51) Okay.(8:51) Why? (8:52) What's the issue? (8:52) Number one.(8:53) Number two. (8:53) Why is that issue there? (8:54) So, let's.(8:55) We need a tangible example. (8:59) Okay. (9:00) There's always a bottleneck.(9:02) Everyone I coach has a bottleneck. (9:03) Let me think of one.

Kevin Palmieri

(9:07) I have a bunch. (9:08) The thing is we haven't actually solved it yet. (9:11) Like your Wi-Fi is Jeffing.(9:13) Okay. (9:13) That's a great example. (9:14) But we haven't solved it.

Alan Lazaros

(9:15) We haven't solved it. (9:16) And then it's hard. (9:16) Because then you have to explain why we haven't solved it.(9:18) It's not that hard to solve. (9:20) I just. (9:21) I have other problems.

Kevin Palmieri

(9:23) Well, this is why principles compound. (9:25) Because it's not. (9:26) It's not the biggest priority.(9:28) That's simply it. (9:29) It's not a big enough pain in the ass. (9:31) Where it is affecting enough things.(9:32) Where you're going to take time from something else to do it. (9:35) And that's good. (9:36) That's what you.(9:37) That's what you're supposed to procrastinate. (9:39) I have so much shit I'm supposed to do. (9:41) 100%.(9:42) I. (9:43) So the wedding. (9:44) Where I was the best man.(9:45) I ripped my pants. (9:47) Yeah, yeah, yeah. (9:48) Ripped my pants.(9:49) And I called up the place. (9:51) And I was like, hey, my pants ripped. (9:53) And they're like, yeah, we're gonna have to charge you 90 bucks.(9:56) And I was like, why though? (9:58) I like bent over. (9:59) And the pants exploded.(10:00) This is. (10:01) This is not my problem. (10:02) This isn't fair.(10:03) And they're like, well, we got to order new pants. (10:04) And that's. (10:05) That's a new Kevin.(10:06) Old Kevin would be like, no problem. (10:07) Charge the card. (10:08) That's awesome.(10:09) And then I was like, they're like, you got to come down. (10:11) And I was like, under no circumstance am I going to do a three hour round trip to pay you $90. (10:16) Can you send me an invoice?(10:18) No, we don't do that. (10:19) Can you email me? (10:21) No, we don't do anything.(10:22) It's 2025. (10:23) I suggest you do. (10:24) I suggest you do.(10:25) You think I'm gonna drive down there? (10:27) Jesus. (10:28) Good for you.(10:29) They haven't called me back yet. (10:30) That was two weeks ago.

Alan Lazaros

(10:31) So.

Kevin Palmieri

(10:31) They probably won't. (10:32) We're gonna see what happens. (10:33) Now, I'm gonna ride the lightning.(10:35) And honestly, it's not that big of a priority. (10:37) It's just not. (10:38) There's other shit going on.(10:39) That's more valuable. (10:40) That's more important. (10:41) It's just my wife's birthday.(10:42) We got new clients, blah, blah, blah. (10:43) There's a whole bunch of shit going on. (10:45) Okay.(10:45) Back to the point. (10:47) How do I become more proactive? (10:56) Other than hiring you as a coach, which if you're out there and you're looking for a coach, this is literally what Alan does.(11:02) He helps you reverse engineer finish lines. (11:05) Bring the habits that you should be practicing every single day. (11:07) And I might be the shining example of this because I've been coaching with Alan for eight years.

Alan Lazaros

(11:14) I very much appreciate that, brother. (11:16) Thank you. (11:16) I did this with a client earlier.(11:18) I said, okay, 10 year roadmap. (11:22) What are the things you want to achieve in the next 10 years? (11:25) Anonymously.(11:27) There's a whole bunch of stuff on here. (11:29) Married, two children. (11:31) Drive this ex-car.(11:33) More than a million dollar net worth. (11:34) Somewhere south but not too far south. (11:37) Travel with partner once per quarter.(11:39) Own my own home. (11:40) 10 plus acres of land. (11:41) All kinds of stuff.(11:43) All of those are 100% doable. (11:47) Now, here's the point, and I'm going to get to it. (11:50) Now that she has set those goals, and those are only some of them.(11:55) There's others. (11:56) I want to keep anonymous. (11:59) I'm certain we can get them.(12:00) And I said this to her. (12:01) I'm certain that you can achieve these. (12:04) These are all totally within reason for 10 years.(12:06) This is no problem. (12:08) If, if you are willing to sacrifice everything else. (12:15) And orient your entire world around this.(12:18) Now, what does that mean in terms of the bottleneck? (12:21) The proactivity. (12:22) You basically have to proactively design your entire existence.(12:28) All of where you spend your time, effort, and money. (12:30) In order to get to these things 10 years from now. (12:34) Now, when it comes to targeting the constraint.(12:36) Right now, the moment we set those, that 10 year roadmap. (12:39) Now she has a big constraint. (12:41) Okay, what is her constraint?(12:42) She needs to make more money. (12:44) Okay, why isn't she making more money? (12:45) And then you go down the rabbit hole.(12:48) Well, she doesn't have enough time. (12:49) Okay, why doesn't she have enough time? (12:50) Because she's on fucking TikTok.(12:52) And again, I'm not mad at her. (12:53) She's not on TikTok that much. (12:55) I'm being playful.(12:55) I know you're listening. (12:56) The point that I'm making though, is that there's always a bottleneck. (13:01) 24-7, 365.(13:02) And the larger your goal is, the more you have to find those bottlenecks. (13:07) And the bigger they get. (13:09) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(13:10) I have a question, sir. (13:11) Fill in the blank. (13:13) Your ability to find the constraint is connected to your blank.(13:19) I don't have an IQ. (13:21) What else? (13:22) What's the second answer?

Alan Lazaros

(13:27) All right, so cognitive capabilities. (13:32) Same thing. (13:34) Quite literally the same.

Kevin Palmieri

(13:35) Yeah, literally the same thing.

Alan Lazaros

(13:36) I know, that's the answer. (13:38) Would you say awareness? (13:39) Give me another word.(13:41) Yeah, awareness is good. (13:42) Awareness? (13:43) Your awareness of yourself, others in the world, and your IQ.(13:46) Your deductive reasoning. (13:47) Deductive reasoning is the fucking skill. (13:50) That's a skill.(13:52) I project this onto people all the time, unintentionally. (13:58) I coach someone who's a math teacher. (14:01) And he said, brother, sometimes people aren't that bright.(14:05) It's not their fault. (14:06) They just can't connect it. (14:07) And I'm like, what do you mean?(14:08) Give me an example. (14:10) And he said, well, I was explaining this math concept to a kid. (14:13) And I said, okay, if you dig a hole five feet down, and then you cover it with two feet of sand, are you in the negative or the positive?(14:21) And I was like, brother. (14:24) Okay, so for me, obviously you're negative three, right? (14:27) That's the answer.(14:27) That's the answer you came up with too. (14:29) And again, this is going to come off pretentious. (14:31) I know that.(14:32) Please don't attack me. (14:33) I'm not trying to be mean. (14:33) I just don't know what it's like to not be able to figure that out easily.(14:38) Because I've always been able to figure things out very easily. (14:41) So it's hard for me to explain. (14:43) You just have to get really, really, really good at deductive reasoning.(14:46) One of my favorite fictional characters is Sherlock Holmes. (14:48) He's out of his goddamn mind, fictional character. (14:51) But I love how good he is at deductive reasoning.(14:54) He can go into a crime scene. (14:56) And then, dude, back in the day when I was a little kid, I was like, I might be a detective. (14:59) I think I'd be a really good detective.(15:01) I agree.

Kevin Palmieri

(15:02) Thank you, man. (15:02) Giant pain in the ass. (15:03) God, imagine you knocking on my door at three o'clock in the morning.

Alan Lazaros

(15:07) Excuse me.

Kevin Palmieri

(15:08) Do you mind if I check your trash?

Alan Lazaros

(15:10) Yes, I do. (15:10) As a matter of fact, let me get your ass out. (15:13) But that's what you do.(15:14) You get good at it. (15:15) Okay, let me ask you this. (15:17) How do you get better at deductive reasoning and don't say chat GPT?

Kevin Palmieri

(15:24) Guess and check. (15:25) Guess something, predict something, and then give it enough time, and then check to see what happened. (15:31) That.(15:32) I do that all the time. (15:33) My guess is, boom. (15:36) One of the reasons, and again, I think it's because I am somebody who values money at a very high degree.(15:42) There have been times where Tanner and I are talking about someone, and like Eminem, for example, and I'm like, 350, net worth $350 million. (15:52) And she's like, how do you know? (15:53) It's like, I just do.(15:54) Don't know.

Alan Lazaros

(15:56) You know how I know?

Kevin Palmieri

(15:57) It becomes an unconscious competency. (15:59) That, and because for a long time I was like, how much money does that person? (16:03) Yeah, of course.(16:04) And you looked it up. (16:05) And then I looked it up, but I always guessed first. (16:08) And depending on the level of, right?(16:11) We all do this. (16:12) We all do this. (16:13) Again, best example in the world.(16:16) Alan's example. (16:17) You're making nachos in the microwave. (16:19) You put them in for 30 seconds.(16:21) The cheese comes out like shit. (16:23) You put it in for four minutes. (16:24) It comes out as magma.(16:27) A minute 30. (16:28) The sweet spot. (16:29) Perfect.(16:29) Perfect. (16:30) How did you figure that out? (16:31) You messed it up a bunch.(16:32) You just messed it up a bunch. (16:34) And now you know.

Alan Lazaros

(16:35) The guess and check is fire. (16:36) It's so important. (16:37) That's literally what the scientific method is built on.(16:39) You guess, and then you check. (16:41) And I know we got to jump. (16:43) Start doing that if you're not now.(16:45) Emilia and I play these games all the time where we'll go to a store and buy food. (16:51) And then I'll say, don't tell me. (16:52) Don't show me the receipt.(16:54) And I have to guess first. (16:55) And then I calculate my percent error. (16:57) And then there's a percent error of a percent error, which is a whole nother fucking ball game.

Kevin Palmieri

(17:00) But that's fun. (17:02) I'd see that. (17:02) I think stuff like that is fun.(17:03) I love doing stuff like that. (17:05) Same. (17:05) I think that's awesome.(17:06) I think that's fun. (17:07) I think that's a way to make this more digestible. (17:10) Because at the end of the day, being reactive and being able to clean up messes is a skill.(17:16) Being able to prevent those messes before they happen is an even bigger skill. (17:20) And it also is really hard to track. (17:23) Because if there is no mess, you don't know how much you actually cleaned up.(17:27) So that's a whole nother potential conversation.

Alan Lazaros

(17:30) It's how you learn. (17:31) That's the scientific method. (17:32) You can constantly guess and check, guess and check, guess and check, trial and error, trial and error, trial and error.(17:37) And then hopefully over time, you get much more intelligent. (17:40) All right. (17:41) If you want to be more intelligent in podcasting, we have in 21 days, 22 hours, 14 minutes, and 26 seconds.(17:49) We have the next level podcast accelerated starting on Tuesday, October 7th, 2025. (17:55) We have done this program 19 times by the time you do this. (18:00) This is our 20th group.(18:02) You and nine other like-minded podcasters, 10 podcasters, plus Kevin, myself, and Amy, three coaches, promo code on the website. (18:10) Click the link in the show notes. (18:12) NLU listener, all one word will bring it to less than $25 per session.(18:16) You will never get more valuable coaching for less than this per session. (18:22) And I will say that over and over and over again. (18:24) This program is super well-polished.(18:27) As a matter of fact, it's been iterated upon. (18:30) I'd have to crunch the numbers. (18:32) 19 times 12.(18:33) Whatever that is. (18:34) It's been iterated upon 19 times 12.

Kevin Palmieri

(18:36) Probably 240 minus something. (18:38) I don't know. (18:39) 221 times.(18:41) 232 times.

Alan Lazaros

(18:42) 228. (18:43) Shit. (18:43) You were close.(18:44) You were close. (18:44) Hey, there you go.

Kevin Palmieri

(18:45) Guess and check. (18:46) See, there you go.

Alan Lazaros

(18:46) Percent error of, I'm kidding. (18:49) 228 times. (18:50) This has been iterated upon and improved.(18:52) Join us. (18:53) Do not miss out. (18:53) 10 people at a time.

Kevin Palmieri

(18:55) And if you are looking for a group of like-minded humans that aren't necessarily in the podcast space, we have a free Facebook group called Next Level Nation. (19:02) There are posts in there every single day. (19:04) Again, we all can get a little bit better every day.(19:07) Maybe it's listening to a full episode of NLU. (19:09) Maybe it's exercising every day. (19:11) Maybe it's answering the questions in Next Level Nation.(19:13) Maybe it's all of those. (19:14) If you really, really, really want to get to the next level. (19:16) All right.(19:17) As always, we love you. (19:18) We appreciate you. (19:19) Grateful for each and every one of you.(19:21) And if you are as committed as you say you are to getting to the next level, make sure you tune in tomorrow because we will be here every single day to help you get there.

Alan Lazaros

(19:28) Keep reaching for your full potential. (19:31) Next Level Nation.

Kevin Palmieri

(19:34) Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. (19:38) We love connecting with the Next Level family.

Alan Lazaros

(19:40) We mean it when we say family. (19:43) If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. (19:46) Everything you need to get ahold of us is in the show notes.(19:49) Thank you again. (19:50) And we will talk to you tomorrow.