Kevin Palmieri
(0:00) Alan already disagreed with me in the preamble to this episode, and he said when I told him what we're talking about, he said they are the same exact thing. (0:08) I disagree. (0:09) Let's see what happens.
Alan Lazaros
(0:11) I didn't say they were the same exact thing, but they're very, very similar.
Kevin Palmieri
(0:16) Welcome to Next Level University. (0:19) I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri. (0:21) And I'm your co-host, Alan Lazarus.(0:24) At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no-BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.
Alan Lazaros
(0:30) Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health, and wealth.
Kevin Palmieri
(0:37) We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits, and defining your own unique version of success.
Alan Lazaros
(0:53) Self-improvement, in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free. (0:59) Welcome to Next Level University.
Kevin Palmieri
(1:05) Next Level Nation today for episode number 2,210. (1:09) High performance versus high productivity. (1:11) What's the difference between the two?(1:12) I think they're different. (1:14) You now state your point.
Alan Lazaros
(1:17) Welcome to the Next Level Debating Show. (1:19) That's it, baby. (1:21) What I would ask you is, what is the difference between high performance and high productivity?(1:26) You really turned it around on me.
Kevin Palmieri
(1:28) I think it depends on what your definition is, honestly. (1:31) High performance, I think, is creating actual results in the real world. (1:37) High productivity is checking things off a box.(1:40) It does not mean they're actually turning into anything. (1:44) I'm sure you've met a lot of people that are very productive in terms of getting things done, but are they getting the right things done? (1:50) I think high performance is getting the right things done.(1:53) That's the difference.
Alan Lazaros
(1:55) Okay. (1:56) In the real definition of productivity, it presupposes that you're actually getting the right things done because it's based on produce, which is what you're supposed to produce. (2:05) So, if you're a high-performing actor or actress, you are supposed to produce a great performance.(2:11) So, they are very, very, very similar.
Kevin Palmieri
(2:14) Let me ask you a question.
Alan Lazaros
(2:15) Yeah.
Kevin Palmieri
(2:16) Let me ask you a question.
Alan Lazaros
(2:20) When I think productivity, I think amount. (2:23) Yeah. (2:23) So, you're talking about the difference between efficient and effective.(2:27) Efficient is, I got a hundred things done today. (2:31) Effective is, I got three really important things that actually move the needle and have leverage.
Kevin Palmieri
(2:36) And this goes into leverage. (2:38) Would you consider efficiency, productivity, and effectiveness performance? (2:48) No.(2:49) You think they're the same?
Alan Lazaros
(2:53) High productivity actually presupposes that you are leveraging your time and effort and money.
Kevin Palmieri
(2:59) Let's say somebody out there is saying, I'm the most productive I've ever been, but they're doing stuff that they shouldn't be doing.
Alan Lazaros
(3:07) Oh, well, then they have the wrong definition of productivity. (3:12) And if that's the case, you obviously weren't that productive before. (3:16) Hmm.(3:17) Interesting. (3:19) We've used the farm for productivity, produce. (3:22) So, if you and I have a farm and we're going to, what do you want?(3:26) What do you want?
Kevin Palmieri
(3:26) Apples.
Alan Lazaros
(3:27) You want apples? (3:28) Okay. (3:28) What else?(3:28) What else do you like? (3:29) Asparagus. (3:30) I got to have some asparagus up in here.(3:31) Asparagus and apple farm. (3:32) Love it. (3:34) All right.(3:34) So, we, I'm going to have trouble not laughing through this. (3:39) You and I are business partners. (3:41) We buy some land.(3:42) We buy 10 acres. (3:44) Okay. (3:44) Down south.(3:45) Okay. (3:46) Yeah. (3:46) You and me.(3:47) Sure. (3:47) Farm. (3:48) It's an asparagus apple farm.(3:50) Yeah. (3:51) 10 acres. (3:52) You get 5 acres.(3:54) I get 5 acres. (3:56) You're producing apples. (3:58) I'm producing asparagus.(3:59) How well we farm determines how much produce we have. (4:04) And then we sell the produce, depending on what asparagus is worth and what apples are worth, based on the demand of the moment. (4:11) And then we reinvest that money to get 10 acres each, and then 20 acres each, and then 40 acres each.(4:17) And this is how, that's just how business grows. (4:19) So, it's semantics.
Kevin Palmieri
(4:23) We've been doing a lot of semantic episodes recently. (4:25) I think it's fun. (4:26) Because I've been in charge.(4:27) I think it's fun. (4:27) Now, let me throw a wrinkle in, hypothetically. (4:30) You ever paid to go pick asparagus?(4:34) No, you haven't. (4:35) Have you ever paid to pick apples? (4:37) I'm higher performing than you are.(4:39) Right there, baby. (4:41) No. (4:41) That's 3D chess, baby.(4:44) You're out here playing with asparagus. (4:46) Nobody's going to pay dollars to come pick your asparagus. (4:49) People pay a lot of money for asparagus.(4:52) I'm sure they do, but they ain't picking it themselves. (4:54) You ever had asparagus cider? (4:56) Wait, why does that matter?(4:58) Because that's me performing. (4:59) I'm outperforming your ass. (5:01) You ever had asparagus cider?(5:04) A warm asparagus cider donut? (5:06) Never. (5:07) Nobody in the history has.(5:10) Point made.
Alan Lazaros
(5:11) You would be the worst debater I've ever heard in my entire life. (5:16) Have you ever heard? (5:19) I mean, you know the debate is going well for Kevin when he says, and also, fuck you.
Kevin Palmieri
(5:24) My emotions get the best of me, you know? (5:27) And then I just see red. (5:30) I think in my mind, I assumed performance was doing it all.(5:38) I think high productivity to me, I guess, is sitting down and doing the things. (5:43) High performance is health, wealth, and love. (5:46) And maybe it's just the definition.(5:48) When I think productivity, I think habits and efficiency and checking things off the box and that. (5:57) When I think performance, I think operating at a very high level across multiple planes for a very long period of time while sustaining it all at a very high level.
Alan Lazaros
(6:10) I do want to let all the listeners in on something. (6:13) This is the challenge, the challenge of effective communication. (6:17) If I say high productivity, everyone has their own definition of that.
Kevin Palmieri
(6:25) So when we're trying to... (6:27) What? (6:28) The most dramatic pause of all time.(6:30) I didn't know if you were done. (6:32) I had to clear my throat. (6:33) Okay, but then you did and then you stared me down.(6:35) I didn't know if... (6:37) I was...
Alan Lazaros
(6:37) a dramatic pause. (6:39) Oh, okay. (6:40) These labels are just labels for things.(6:44) But... (6:44) So we resonate with labels. (6:46) 100%.(6:46) When I say tree, everyone has an image of a tree in their head or a concept of the tree or they know the math of a tree. (6:55) Mostly the first two. (6:57) Mostly the first two.(6:59) Amelia can predict the age of trees straight up. (7:01) I respect it. (7:02) Yes, it's...(7:03) you can tell by the... (7:05) I'm not going to get into tree anatomy, okay? (7:06) It's arbor-y or botany?(7:08) I don't know. (7:09) I don't know. (7:10) I don't really...(7:11) I don't really care. (7:12) What I do care about is, is it a tree or is it an oak tree? (7:17) Or is it a 100-year-old oak tree?(7:19) Or is it a 100-year-old oak tree on the top of a hill? (7:23) These are distinctions. (7:25) When we're kids, we just know tree.(7:28) Would you? (7:29) Sorry. (7:31) But when we're kids, we just...(7:33) tree. (7:34) We don't have any distinctions. (7:35) Apple.(7:36) Asparagus. (7:37) We don't know shit. (7:38) When you get older, you're supposed to understand the distinctions.(7:41) Like, is that a maple tree or an oak tree? (7:44) Is that a birch tree? (7:46) How old is it?(7:47) Like, distinctions are everything. (7:49) And we never talk about it. (7:50) We never talk about distinctions.(7:51) So, high performance and high productivity. (7:54) Productivity and performance are two different things. (7:56) That's why we have two names for them.(7:58) But they're very similar. (8:00) And the distinctions are what matters. (8:04) So, what distinctions make something productivity?(8:08) And what distinctions make something performance? (8:12) And from your perspective, it's obvious that you have not studied either of these things with love. (8:17) But also, number two, it's obvious that productivity to you means sort of getting a lot done.(8:23) And performance means doing something at a very high level. (8:26) Which I think is fair. (8:27) I don't think that's bad.
Kevin Palmieri
(8:28) I've never heard a peak productivity podcast. (8:30) We've heard a lot of peak performance ones. (8:33) Right?(8:33) So, like, I think that label is just commonly used.
Alan Lazaros
(8:38) Just a good example. (8:39) Wouldn't you say high performers produce a lot, though?
Kevin Palmieri
(8:43) Before this conversation, I don't know. (8:46) Yes, I understand that it makes sense. (8:48) But I don't know if I ever would have made the labels go that way, no.
Alan Lazaros
(8:52) Yeah.
Kevin Palmieri
(8:53) No.
Alan Lazaros
(8:54) You are someone who has had to learn how to be a high performer. (8:57) You've also had to learn how to be very productive. (8:59) Mm-hmm.(9:03) I'm a productivity and high performance nerd. (9:06) For someone who isn't, what is the value you can provide?
Kevin Palmieri
(9:15) Just the way you said it. (9:18) Also, you better study the shit out of trees if we're going to do this farm thing together. (9:21) I'm going to need you to love trees if we're going to be successful.
Alan Lazaros
(9:23) I'm going to have asparagus pie and asparagus picking at my farm.
Kevin Palmieri
(9:27) I would like a percentage of that. (9:29) For sure. (9:29) Uh, I think after this, I almost think of it as the sub and meta categories that we were talking about earlier.(9:38) I just pictured you with, like, asparagus on your fangas. (9:43) Just, like, scaring the shit out of people. (9:46) Why me, not you?(9:47) It's your asparagus. (9:49) I'm going to be out here making deals for apples. (9:52) Yeah.(9:53) Apple pie, apple picking.
Alan Lazaros
(9:54) You ever see Ace Ventura in Nature Calls?
Kevin Palmieri
(9:57) Long time ago.
Alan Lazaros
(9:58) And he's got the, he's like, oh, I don't know what they are. (10:03) He puts them on his fingers and he pretends to be Freddy Krueger. (10:06) It's hilarious.(10:07) I don't remember. (10:07) I saw that somewhere. (10:08) Guano bowls.(10:10) Collect the whole set.
Kevin Palmieri
(10:11) Guano is, like, bat shit. (10:14) That it is. (10:14) That it is.(10:16) Let me get back to the value. (10:17) Let me get back to the value. (10:21) It almost, to me, it feels like high productivity is a ingredient.(10:28) It's an ingredient to high performance.
Alan Lazaros
(10:32) For someone who wants to be more successful, how do they do this? (10:36) How do they get, you've become... (10:38) All right.(10:39) You thought you were, you were very hardworking. (10:41) You're very humble. (10:42) You showed up on time.(10:43) You were reliable. (10:44) But you weren't that productive. (10:45) No, that's fair.(10:46) And you weren't a high performer, in my opinion. (10:48) And you've become one. (10:49) So that's awesome.
Kevin Palmieri
(10:50) Congratulations.
Alan Lazaros
(10:51) What makes somebody a high performer? (10:56) Simplest forms. (10:57) I would say being far better than others at a particular skill.(11:03) That is needed in the marketplace based on the statistical bell curve. (11:09) How do you get to, how do you get to a high performing level? (11:12) What we talked about on the skills episode, which is figuring out what skills and subskills and meta skills are necessary in your industry.(11:19) And this is the thing. (11:20) I was on with someone earlier and I said, what do you do? (11:23) She said, I work for a non-profit.(11:24) I do payroll and HR. (11:25) And I said, okay, I know what that means. (11:28) And as the CEO, I have to know that.(11:31) Because I do payroll. (11:32) So other people hear payroll. (11:35) They don't know when I hear payroll, I say the most expensive part of every business.(11:42) But if you've never done payroll, you have no concept of what I'm talking about.
Kevin Palmieri
(11:47) Yeah.
Alan Lazaros
(11:48) Like an 18 person team. (11:50) That's insane how much that costs, but it's all relative. (11:55) Right.(11:56) So what's my point of that? (11:59) She's good at HR and payroll. (12:01) She's not really that good at much else.(12:03) And I had to teach her, like, listen, if you're going to be a podcaster and you're going to start your own company, you need to learn all of this. (12:10) You can't just like no payroll. (12:13) You need to know every facet of the business.(12:15) If you're going to be a business owner, you have to learn every facet of the business. (12:18) You don't have to be the best at every, this is a good metaphor. (12:20) You don't have to be the best violin player and the best tuba player and the best drummer, but you need to have played all of them.(12:27) You can't like never have picked up the drumsticks before. (12:29) You have to have played all the instruments so that you can recognize and lead effectively. (12:36) That's why leadership is the hardest thing, because you have to basically be.(12:39) Play all the instruments. (12:40) Yeah.
Kevin Palmieri
(12:40) Play all the instruments. (12:42) Interesting. (12:42) I've really, the kink has been thrown into my thesis in this episode.(12:48) I don't even know if I can rebute it. (12:51) I don't know if I can rebute it, unfortunately.
Alan Lazaros
(12:52) I appreciate your honest vulnerability.
Kevin Palmieri
(12:54) High performance to me is, yeah, it's like crossing segments. (12:59) High productivity is doing the stuff, but I guess it's probably very similar.
Alan Lazaros
(13:04) Nice.
Kevin Palmieri
(13:04) I would say. (13:06) What's the value we can add based on this flop of an episode? (13:10) Where are you a high performer and how did you become one?(13:13) Me?
Alan Lazaros
(13:14) Yeah.
Kevin Palmieri
(13:15) Oh, I might be the most peak performing podcaster on the planet. (13:18) All right. (13:19) How did you do that?(13:21) Oh man. (13:23) Oh geez. (13:24) Environment.(13:25) My environment is set up very well for podcasting. (13:27) I just changed my lighting. (13:28) That's a whole thing.(13:29) Yeah, I come in, I flip a switch, everything turns on. (13:31) Super easy. (13:32) Low barrier to entry.(13:33) I get to practice my craft very easily. (13:35) Very little resistance.
Alan Lazaros
(13:36) That's part one. (13:37) You really never intended on teaching success principles, did you? (13:41) I hoped I wouldn't have to.(13:42) Yeah, brother. (13:44) Yeah, I hoped I wouldn't have to. (13:45) It's definitely not my jam.(13:47) It's not. (13:48) No, no, no, it doesn't. (13:49) I think you love success principles and love success.
Kevin Palmieri
(13:52) I love pizza, but if you said, come on over and freshen one up for us, I couldn't. (13:57) It ain't my jam. (13:58) I can eat it.(13:59) Not yet, not yet. (14:01) Which is good. (14:01) This is good practice.(14:02) This is troubling considering we are a successful podcast coach. (14:06) I wasn't a great one. (14:08) Better podcast coach.(14:10) I was a mindset coach because we, that's the direction we were going in. (14:16) I'm a podcast coach because I really like podcasting and I really enjoy coaching on podcasting. (14:22) Success principles.(14:22) I'm going to figure it out. (14:23) Yeah, absolutely. (14:24) I'm going to figure it out.(14:25) Well, also in my, in fairness, Alan is traveling. (14:28) So I came with like nine episodes. (14:30) I had to come up with nine episodes in like an hour.(14:33) So some of these aren't probably going to be the best ones we've ever done. (14:36) And I get to learn a bunch, which is good too.
Alan Lazaros
(14:39) I appreciate it, man.
Kevin Palmieri
(14:40) Of course. (14:41) All right. (14:41) What's your thesis in this dud of an episode?(14:43) My apologies, audience.
Alan Lazaros
(14:44) Okay. (14:45) Viewers, listeners. (14:47) If you want to be more successful, you have to figure out where you are expected to perform highly.(14:53) If it's videography, you have to be good with the camera. (14:57) You have to be good at video editing. (14:58) Like what are the skills and subskills that are necessary for high performance?(15:03) So Christina is the COO of our company. (15:05) She doesn't have to be good on the microphone.
Kevin Palmieri
(15:07) Right.
Alan Lazaros
(15:08) But I do.
Kevin Palmieri
(15:08) And there's a reason she's behind the scenes because that's not her jam.
Alan Lazaros
(15:11) Exactly. (15:13) Whereas Amy, she goes on podcasts. (15:15) She's front facing.(15:16) She's a coach. (15:17) So she has to be an effective communicator. (15:19) So what are the, what is high performance in your space?(15:23) And then what do you want to be in terms of a high performer? (15:27) And then how, how do you get more productive? (15:28) I guess I would just leave that.(15:30) Just leave it. (15:31) Yeah. (15:32) I talk about productivity all the time on this podcast.
Kevin Palmieri
(15:34) Well, it's one of your favorite things ever of all time. (15:36) Look, this is a dream come true. (15:37) I, when I gave Alan the lineup of episodes, he was like, oh shit.(15:40) And I was also like, oh shit. (15:43) Here we are. (15:43) Here we are.(15:44) Okay. (15:44) If you're a podcaster and you want to talk about something I actually can talk about, I can talk about podcasting for sure. (15:51) I got you there.(15:52) Next Level Podcast Accelerator starts October 7th at 5 p.m. Eastern time. (15:56) And it goes for 12 weeks every single Tuesday at 5 p.m. Eastern time. (16:01) We'd love to have you.(16:02) Strategies, habits, awareness, tactics to grow, scale, and monetize your podcast with the discount code NLULISTENER at checkout. (16:09) It ends up taking 30% off and it's like $24 a call. (16:13) So it is a bargain.
Alan Lazaros
(16:15) If you want to be more of a high performer and more productive, we have a monthly master class coming up October 2nd, 5 p.m. The exact step-by-step process to create your own system of success. (16:28) It's going to help you be more productive and it has the most important skill, which is high performance. (16:33) Well, as always, we love you.
Kevin Palmieri
(16:35) We appreciate you. (16:36) Grateful for each and every one of you. (16:37) And at NLU, if you're trying to get to the next level, we will help you get there a little bit.(16:42) A little bit, a little bit, a little bit. (16:43) Every single day.
Alan Lazaros
(16:45) Keep reaching for your full potential. (16:47) Next Level Nation.
Kevin Palmieri
(16:50) Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. (16:54) We love connecting with the Next Level family.
Alan Lazaros
(16:57) We mean it when we say family. (16:59) If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. (17:02) Everything you need to get ahold of us is in the show notes.(17:06) Thank you again and we will talk to you tomorrow.
