High Performance VS High Productivity (2210)

Beyond busyness lies the power of true performance. In today’s candid debate, Kevin and Alan face off on what really separates high performance from high productivity. Packed with bold truths, hilarious analogies, and game-changing insights, this conversation challenges how you measure progress and success. If you’ve been grinding hard but still feel stuck, this is the wake-up call you’ve been waiting for. Listen now and discover the shift that turns effort into unstoppable results.

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Website 💻  http://www.nextleveluniverse.com

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Show notes:
(1:28) Checking boxes Vs. Creating results
(3:19) Apple and asparagus farm analogy
(6:10) Why distinctions and labels matter
(11:56) Skills and subskills that drive success
(14:19) Defining high performance in your own space
(16:34) Outro

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Chapters

• 1:28 Checking boxes Vs. Creating results
• 3:19 Apple and asparagus farm analogy
• 6:10 Why distinctions and labels matter
• 11:56 Skills and subskills that drive success
• 14:19 Defining high performance in your own space
• 16:34 Outro

Transcript

Kevin Palmieri

(0:00) Alan already disagreed with me in the preamble to this episode, and he said when I told him what we're talking about, he said they are the same exact thing. (0:08) I disagree. (0:09) Let's see what happens.

Alan Lazaros

(0:11) I didn't say they were the same exact thing, but they're very, very similar.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:16) Welcome to Next Level University. (0:19) I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri. (0:21) And I'm your co-host, Alan Lazarus.(0:24) At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no-BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros

(0:30) Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health, and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:37) We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits, and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros

(0:53) Self-improvement, in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free. (0:59) Welcome to Next Level University.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:05) Next Level Nation today for episode number 2,210. (1:09) High performance versus high productivity. (1:11) What's the difference between the two?(1:12) I think they're different. (1:14) You now state your point.

Alan Lazaros

(1:17) Welcome to the Next Level Debating Show. (1:19) That's it, baby. (1:21) What I would ask you is, what is the difference between high performance and high productivity?(1:26) You really turned it around on me.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:28) I think it depends on what your definition is, honestly. (1:31) High performance, I think, is creating actual results in the real world. (1:37) High productivity is checking things off a box.(1:40) It does not mean they're actually turning into anything. (1:44) I'm sure you've met a lot of people that are very productive in terms of getting things done, but are they getting the right things done? (1:50) I think high performance is getting the right things done.(1:53) That's the difference.

Alan Lazaros

(1:55) Okay. (1:56) In the real definition of productivity, it presupposes that you're actually getting the right things done because it's based on produce, which is what you're supposed to produce. (2:05) So, if you're a high-performing actor or actress, you are supposed to produce a great performance.(2:11) So, they are very, very, very similar.

Kevin Palmieri

(2:14) Let me ask you a question.

Alan Lazaros

(2:15) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(2:16) Let me ask you a question.

Alan Lazaros

(2:20) When I think productivity, I think amount. (2:23) Yeah. (2:23) So, you're talking about the difference between efficient and effective.(2:27) Efficient is, I got a hundred things done today. (2:31) Effective is, I got three really important things that actually move the needle and have leverage.

Kevin Palmieri

(2:36) And this goes into leverage. (2:38) Would you consider efficiency, productivity, and effectiveness performance? (2:48) No.(2:49) You think they're the same?

Alan Lazaros

(2:53) High productivity actually presupposes that you are leveraging your time and effort and money.

Kevin Palmieri

(2:59) Let's say somebody out there is saying, I'm the most productive I've ever been, but they're doing stuff that they shouldn't be doing.

Alan Lazaros

(3:07) Oh, well, then they have the wrong definition of productivity. (3:12) And if that's the case, you obviously weren't that productive before. (3:16) Hmm.(3:17) Interesting. (3:19) We've used the farm for productivity, produce. (3:22) So, if you and I have a farm and we're going to, what do you want?(3:26) What do you want?

Kevin Palmieri

(3:26) Apples.

Alan Lazaros

(3:27) You want apples? (3:28) Okay. (3:28) What else?(3:28) What else do you like? (3:29) Asparagus. (3:30) I got to have some asparagus up in here.(3:31) Asparagus and apple farm. (3:32) Love it. (3:34) All right.(3:34) So, we, I'm going to have trouble not laughing through this. (3:39) You and I are business partners. (3:41) We buy some land.(3:42) We buy 10 acres. (3:44) Okay. (3:44) Down south.(3:45) Okay. (3:46) Yeah. (3:46) You and me.(3:47) Sure. (3:47) Farm. (3:48) It's an asparagus apple farm.(3:50) Yeah. (3:51) 10 acres. (3:52) You get 5 acres.(3:54) I get 5 acres. (3:56) You're producing apples. (3:58) I'm producing asparagus.(3:59) How well we farm determines how much produce we have. (4:04) And then we sell the produce, depending on what asparagus is worth and what apples are worth, based on the demand of the moment. (4:11) And then we reinvest that money to get 10 acres each, and then 20 acres each, and then 40 acres each.(4:17) And this is how, that's just how business grows. (4:19) So, it's semantics.

Kevin Palmieri

(4:23) We've been doing a lot of semantic episodes recently. (4:25) I think it's fun. (4:26) Because I've been in charge.(4:27) I think it's fun. (4:27) Now, let me throw a wrinkle in, hypothetically. (4:30) You ever paid to go pick asparagus?(4:34) No, you haven't. (4:35) Have you ever paid to pick apples? (4:37) I'm higher performing than you are.(4:39) Right there, baby. (4:41) No. (4:41) That's 3D chess, baby.(4:44) You're out here playing with asparagus. (4:46) Nobody's going to pay dollars to come pick your asparagus. (4:49) People pay a lot of money for asparagus.(4:52) I'm sure they do, but they ain't picking it themselves. (4:54) You ever had asparagus cider? (4:56) Wait, why does that matter?(4:58) Because that's me performing. (4:59) I'm outperforming your ass. (5:01) You ever had asparagus cider?(5:04) A warm asparagus cider donut? (5:06) Never. (5:07) Nobody in the history has.(5:10) Point made.

Alan Lazaros

(5:11) You would be the worst debater I've ever heard in my entire life. (5:16) Have you ever heard? (5:19) I mean, you know the debate is going well for Kevin when he says, and also, fuck you.

Kevin Palmieri

(5:24) My emotions get the best of me, you know? (5:27) And then I just see red. (5:30) I think in my mind, I assumed performance was doing it all.(5:38) I think high productivity to me, I guess, is sitting down and doing the things. (5:43) High performance is health, wealth, and love. (5:46) And maybe it's just the definition.(5:48) When I think productivity, I think habits and efficiency and checking things off the box and that. (5:57) When I think performance, I think operating at a very high level across multiple planes for a very long period of time while sustaining it all at a very high level.

Alan Lazaros

(6:10) I do want to let all the listeners in on something. (6:13) This is the challenge, the challenge of effective communication. (6:17) If I say high productivity, everyone has their own definition of that.

Kevin Palmieri

(6:25) So when we're trying to... (6:27) What? (6:28) The most dramatic pause of all time.(6:30) I didn't know if you were done. (6:32) I had to clear my throat. (6:33) Okay, but then you did and then you stared me down.(6:35) I didn't know if... (6:37) I was...

Alan Lazaros

(6:37) a dramatic pause. (6:39) Oh, okay. (6:40) These labels are just labels for things.(6:44) But... (6:44) So we resonate with labels. (6:46) 100%.(6:46) When I say tree, everyone has an image of a tree in their head or a concept of the tree or they know the math of a tree. (6:55) Mostly the first two. (6:57) Mostly the first two.(6:59) Amelia can predict the age of trees straight up. (7:01) I respect it. (7:02) Yes, it's...(7:03) you can tell by the... (7:05) I'm not going to get into tree anatomy, okay? (7:06) It's arbor-y or botany?(7:08) I don't know. (7:09) I don't know. (7:10) I don't really...(7:11) I don't really care. (7:12) What I do care about is, is it a tree or is it an oak tree? (7:17) Or is it a 100-year-old oak tree?(7:19) Or is it a 100-year-old oak tree on the top of a hill? (7:23) These are distinctions. (7:25) When we're kids, we just know tree.(7:28) Would you? (7:29) Sorry. (7:31) But when we're kids, we just...(7:33) tree. (7:34) We don't have any distinctions. (7:35) Apple.(7:36) Asparagus. (7:37) We don't know shit. (7:38) When you get older, you're supposed to understand the distinctions.(7:41) Like, is that a maple tree or an oak tree? (7:44) Is that a birch tree? (7:46) How old is it?(7:47) Like, distinctions are everything. (7:49) And we never talk about it. (7:50) We never talk about distinctions.(7:51) So, high performance and high productivity. (7:54) Productivity and performance are two different things. (7:56) That's why we have two names for them.(7:58) But they're very similar. (8:00) And the distinctions are what matters. (8:04) So, what distinctions make something productivity?(8:08) And what distinctions make something performance? (8:12) And from your perspective, it's obvious that you have not studied either of these things with love. (8:17) But also, number two, it's obvious that productivity to you means sort of getting a lot done.(8:23) And performance means doing something at a very high level. (8:26) Which I think is fair. (8:27) I don't think that's bad.

Kevin Palmieri

(8:28) I've never heard a peak productivity podcast. (8:30) We've heard a lot of peak performance ones. (8:33) Right?(8:33) So, like, I think that label is just commonly used.

Alan Lazaros

(8:38) Just a good example. (8:39) Wouldn't you say high performers produce a lot, though?

Kevin Palmieri

(8:43) Before this conversation, I don't know. (8:46) Yes, I understand that it makes sense. (8:48) But I don't know if I ever would have made the labels go that way, no.

Alan Lazaros

(8:52) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(8:53) No.

Alan Lazaros

(8:54) You are someone who has had to learn how to be a high performer. (8:57) You've also had to learn how to be very productive. (8:59) Mm-hmm.(9:03) I'm a productivity and high performance nerd. (9:06) For someone who isn't, what is the value you can provide?

Kevin Palmieri

(9:15) Just the way you said it. (9:18) Also, you better study the shit out of trees if we're going to do this farm thing together. (9:21) I'm going to need you to love trees if we're going to be successful.

Alan Lazaros

(9:23) I'm going to have asparagus pie and asparagus picking at my farm.

Kevin Palmieri

(9:27) I would like a percentage of that. (9:29) For sure. (9:29) Uh, I think after this, I almost think of it as the sub and meta categories that we were talking about earlier.(9:38) I just pictured you with, like, asparagus on your fangas. (9:43) Just, like, scaring the shit out of people. (9:46) Why me, not you?(9:47) It's your asparagus. (9:49) I'm going to be out here making deals for apples. (9:52) Yeah.(9:53) Apple pie, apple picking.

Alan Lazaros

(9:54) You ever see Ace Ventura in Nature Calls?

Kevin Palmieri

(9:57) Long time ago.

Alan Lazaros

(9:58) And he's got the, he's like, oh, I don't know what they are. (10:03) He puts them on his fingers and he pretends to be Freddy Krueger. (10:06) It's hilarious.(10:07) I don't remember. (10:07) I saw that somewhere. (10:08) Guano bowls.(10:10) Collect the whole set.

Kevin Palmieri

(10:11) Guano is, like, bat shit. (10:14) That it is. (10:14) That it is.(10:16) Let me get back to the value. (10:17) Let me get back to the value. (10:21) It almost, to me, it feels like high productivity is a ingredient.(10:28) It's an ingredient to high performance.

Alan Lazaros

(10:32) For someone who wants to be more successful, how do they do this? (10:36) How do they get, you've become... (10:38) All right.(10:39) You thought you were, you were very hardworking. (10:41) You're very humble. (10:42) You showed up on time.(10:43) You were reliable. (10:44) But you weren't that productive. (10:45) No, that's fair.(10:46) And you weren't a high performer, in my opinion. (10:48) And you've become one. (10:49) So that's awesome.

Kevin Palmieri

(10:50) Congratulations.

Alan Lazaros

(10:51) What makes somebody a high performer? (10:56) Simplest forms. (10:57) I would say being far better than others at a particular skill.(11:03) That is needed in the marketplace based on the statistical bell curve. (11:09) How do you get to, how do you get to a high performing level? (11:12) What we talked about on the skills episode, which is figuring out what skills and subskills and meta skills are necessary in your industry.(11:19) And this is the thing. (11:20) I was on with someone earlier and I said, what do you do? (11:23) She said, I work for a non-profit.(11:24) I do payroll and HR. (11:25) And I said, okay, I know what that means. (11:28) And as the CEO, I have to know that.(11:31) Because I do payroll. (11:32) So other people hear payroll. (11:35) They don't know when I hear payroll, I say the most expensive part of every business.(11:42) But if you've never done payroll, you have no concept of what I'm talking about.

Kevin Palmieri

(11:47) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(11:48) Like an 18 person team. (11:50) That's insane how much that costs, but it's all relative. (11:55) Right.(11:56) So what's my point of that? (11:59) She's good at HR and payroll. (12:01) She's not really that good at much else.(12:03) And I had to teach her, like, listen, if you're going to be a podcaster and you're going to start your own company, you need to learn all of this. (12:10) You can't just like no payroll. (12:13) You need to know every facet of the business.(12:15) If you're going to be a business owner, you have to learn every facet of the business. (12:18) You don't have to be the best at every, this is a good metaphor. (12:20) You don't have to be the best violin player and the best tuba player and the best drummer, but you need to have played all of them.(12:27) You can't like never have picked up the drumsticks before. (12:29) You have to have played all the instruments so that you can recognize and lead effectively. (12:36) That's why leadership is the hardest thing, because you have to basically be.(12:39) Play all the instruments. (12:40) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(12:40) Play all the instruments. (12:42) Interesting. (12:42) I've really, the kink has been thrown into my thesis in this episode.(12:48) I don't even know if I can rebute it. (12:51) I don't know if I can rebute it, unfortunately.

Alan Lazaros

(12:52) I appreciate your honest vulnerability.

Kevin Palmieri

(12:54) High performance to me is, yeah, it's like crossing segments. (12:59) High productivity is doing the stuff, but I guess it's probably very similar.

Alan Lazaros

(13:04) Nice.

Kevin Palmieri

(13:04) I would say. (13:06) What's the value we can add based on this flop of an episode? (13:10) Where are you a high performer and how did you become one?(13:13) Me?

Alan Lazaros

(13:14) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(13:15) Oh, I might be the most peak performing podcaster on the planet. (13:18) All right. (13:19) How did you do that?(13:21) Oh man. (13:23) Oh geez. (13:24) Environment.(13:25) My environment is set up very well for podcasting. (13:27) I just changed my lighting. (13:28) That's a whole thing.(13:29) Yeah, I come in, I flip a switch, everything turns on. (13:31) Super easy. (13:32) Low barrier to entry.(13:33) I get to practice my craft very easily. (13:35) Very little resistance.

Alan Lazaros

(13:36) That's part one. (13:37) You really never intended on teaching success principles, did you? (13:41) I hoped I wouldn't have to.(13:42) Yeah, brother. (13:44) Yeah, I hoped I wouldn't have to. (13:45) It's definitely not my jam.(13:47) It's not. (13:48) No, no, no, it doesn't. (13:49) I think you love success principles and love success.

Kevin Palmieri

(13:52) I love pizza, but if you said, come on over and freshen one up for us, I couldn't. (13:57) It ain't my jam. (13:58) I can eat it.(13:59) Not yet, not yet. (14:01) Which is good. (14:01) This is good practice.(14:02) This is troubling considering we are a successful podcast coach. (14:06) I wasn't a great one. (14:08) Better podcast coach.(14:10) I was a mindset coach because we, that's the direction we were going in. (14:16) I'm a podcast coach because I really like podcasting and I really enjoy coaching on podcasting. (14:22) Success principles.(14:22) I'm going to figure it out. (14:23) Yeah, absolutely. (14:24) I'm going to figure it out.(14:25) Well, also in my, in fairness, Alan is traveling. (14:28) So I came with like nine episodes. (14:30) I had to come up with nine episodes in like an hour.(14:33) So some of these aren't probably going to be the best ones we've ever done. (14:36) And I get to learn a bunch, which is good too.

Alan Lazaros

(14:39) I appreciate it, man.

Kevin Palmieri

(14:40) Of course. (14:41) All right. (14:41) What's your thesis in this dud of an episode?(14:43) My apologies, audience.

Alan Lazaros

(14:44) Okay. (14:45) Viewers, listeners. (14:47) If you want to be more successful, you have to figure out where you are expected to perform highly.(14:53) If it's videography, you have to be good with the camera. (14:57) You have to be good at video editing. (14:58) Like what are the skills and subskills that are necessary for high performance?(15:03) So Christina is the COO of our company. (15:05) She doesn't have to be good on the microphone.

Kevin Palmieri

(15:07) Right.

Alan Lazaros

(15:08) But I do.

Kevin Palmieri

(15:08) And there's a reason she's behind the scenes because that's not her jam.

Alan Lazaros

(15:11) Exactly. (15:13) Whereas Amy, she goes on podcasts. (15:15) She's front facing.(15:16) She's a coach. (15:17) So she has to be an effective communicator. (15:19) So what are the, what is high performance in your space?(15:23) And then what do you want to be in terms of a high performer? (15:27) And then how, how do you get more productive? (15:28) I guess I would just leave that.(15:30) Just leave it. (15:31) Yeah. (15:32) I talk about productivity all the time on this podcast.

Kevin Palmieri

(15:34) Well, it's one of your favorite things ever of all time. (15:36) Look, this is a dream come true. (15:37) I, when I gave Alan the lineup of episodes, he was like, oh shit.(15:40) And I was also like, oh shit. (15:43) Here we are. (15:43) Here we are.(15:44) Okay. (15:44) If you're a podcaster and you want to talk about something I actually can talk about, I can talk about podcasting for sure. (15:51) I got you there.(15:52) Next Level Podcast Accelerator starts October 7th at 5 p.m. Eastern time. (15:56) And it goes for 12 weeks every single Tuesday at 5 p.m. Eastern time. (16:01) We'd love to have you.(16:02) Strategies, habits, awareness, tactics to grow, scale, and monetize your podcast with the discount code NLULISTENER at checkout. (16:09) It ends up taking 30% off and it's like $24 a call. (16:13) So it is a bargain.

Alan Lazaros

(16:15) If you want to be more of a high performer and more productive, we have a monthly master class coming up October 2nd, 5 p.m. The exact step-by-step process to create your own system of success. (16:28) It's going to help you be more productive and it has the most important skill, which is high performance. (16:33) Well, as always, we love you.

Kevin Palmieri

(16:35) We appreciate you. (16:36) Grateful for each and every one of you. (16:37) And at NLU, if you're trying to get to the next level, we will help you get there a little bit.(16:42) A little bit, a little bit, a little bit. (16:43) Every single day.

Alan Lazaros

(16:45) Keep reaching for your full potential. (16:47) Next Level Nation.

Kevin Palmieri

(16:50) Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. (16:54) We love connecting with the Next Level family.

Alan Lazaros

(16:57) We mean it when we say family. (16:59) If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. (17:02) Everything you need to get ahold of us is in the show notes.(17:06) Thank you again and we will talk to you tomorrow.