You Gotta Let Go To Grow (2211)

In this powerful episode of Next Level University, hosts Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros break down the hidden cost of fear, control, and comfort. From rebranding struggles to personal battles with relationships and identity, they reveal why the very things you cling to can quietly sabotage your next level. This isn’t about playing it safe, it’s about making the bold moves that separate staying stuck from stepping into real success. If you’re ready to stop playing not to lose and finally play to win, this is the spark you need.

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Show notes:
(2:12) The challenge of evolving your identity
(4:46) Rebranding, risk, and losing listeners
(7:03) Relationships, abandonment, and fear of letting go
(12:40) Why true growth requires change
(14:20) Playing to win versus playing not to lose
(16:45) Outro

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Chapters

• 2:12 The challenge of evolving your identity
• 4:46 Rebranding, risk, and losing listeners
• 7:03 Relationships, abandonment, and fear of letting go
• 12:40 Why true growth requires change
• 14:20 Playing to win versus playing not to lose
• 16:45 Outro

Transcript

Kevin Palmieri

(0:00) I am definitely guilty of this in the past. (0:02) I will get something, I will accomplish something, and I tend to hang on to that thing too long because I'm more afraid of losing that thing than I am of not getting to the next level. (0:12) We're going to talk about that today.

Alan Lazaros

(0:14) You have to give up to grow up. (0:16) This is next level you, not next level Kevin, not next level Alan. (0:20) What do you uniquely have to give up to get to your next level?

Kevin Palmieri

(0:23) Welcome to Next Level University. (0:26) I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri. (0:27) And I'm your co-host, Alan Lazarus.(0:31) At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros

(0:37) Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health, and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:44) We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits, and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros

(1:00) Self-improvement in your pocket every day from anywhere, completely free. (1:06) Welcome to Next Level University.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:12) Next Level Nation today for episode number 2,211, hanging on versus letting go to grow. (1:19) That is what we're talking about. (1:21) We have obviously evolved a lot as a podcast and as podcasters.(1:26) And one of the fears I had for a long time was we started this podcast in 2017 and we had a certain audience. (1:34) And for a long time, my fear was, well, if we change what we talk about and we change to success and we change our stories and blah, blah, blah, then we're going to lose the people that we started this journey with.

Alan Lazaros

(1:46) Not change our stories, but change the stories we use and examples we use. (1:50) Yes. (1:50) Yes.(1:51) We're not suddenly telling a new story.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:52) Well, you know, I, my past was actually, I was born and then, uh, you know, I, I was, uh, on a train and I found myself in a foreign land and I worked my way back from there. (2:05) No, the, yeah, the examples and the context we use. (2:09) And one of my fears was doing that, leaving people behind, whatever that meant in terms of quote unquote podcast success.(2:19) So that is something you and I have worked a lot on behind the scenes. (2:23) Even one of the, again, we take you behind the scenes. (2:26) I should, I should probably be posting way more about podcasting on social media, but I don't do it because I I'm hanging on to what I've accumulated through creation.(2:37) And that's something that I'm trying to figure out.

Alan Lazaros

(2:41) This is the offense versus defense. (2:44) This is the playing not to lose versus playing to win. (2:46) This is the give up to grow up a good metaphor for this.(2:52) You talked on four or five episodes ago about UFC and how you used to identify with that community and how you kind of don't anymore. (3:01) I think that, and this is really, really difficult for anyone who has a personal brand and is a big part of the business. (3:08) Back in the day, you could own a company and no one needed to know you.(3:11) I actually genuinely envy that time in a way because you could just run the company and it would be the product that people know. (3:19) Like Coca-Cola, you don't need to know the owner of that. (3:22) Now you, it's gotten a lot more blurry in the 21st century, right?(3:26) So you've got Steve Jobs and Apple, you've got Elon Musk and Tesla. (3:30) You've got, and again, don't, don't associate us with any of that. (3:33) It's just the point, right?(3:36) And a lot of companies now, the business owner, the CEO is sort of like a, more of like a celebrity.

Kevin Palmieri

(3:44) Yeah, it's weird.

Alan Lazaros

(3:44) Whereas back in the day, it wasn't like that at all. (3:48) And my point of this is, it gets blurry and I've, yeah, you know, you know, hold on, hold on, hold on. (3:59) It's been a long freaking day.(4:01) Kev, hanging on versus letting go to grow. (4:04) That. (4:06) You have to evolve and change.(4:09) And when you do, and when you do, you're going to lose people. (4:13) And unfortunately, when you tie your business with your personal brand, everyone knows that when you stop drinking or start, stop partying or stop smoking weed or, or stop going to the movies or whatever it is that you stop doing. (4:27) All the friends that used to do that with you now have more trouble connecting with the same is true for listeners.(4:32) The same is true for clients and customers. (4:35) Do people identify with your company anymore? (4:37) And it's this weird freaking paradox, man, where to get to the next level, you can't hang on to the current level, but you have to hang on to some things.

Kevin Palmieri

(4:45) Yeah. (4:46) Well, that's what makes it so hard is you don't, what do you let go of? (4:49) And we, so we rebranded from hyperconscious to next level university and we had a massive downturn in listens for a while, much bigger deal than I thought.

Alan Lazaros

(5:02) And that was terrifying. (5:03) We showed a graph. (5:04) Do you, did you think that was going to be, I didn't think we'd lose that much.(5:08) I didn't, we lost a lot.

Kevin Palmieri

(5:10) Yeah, I didn't either. (5:11) Yeah, but that was terrifying. (5:12) So I understand, here's the thing.(5:14) I understand as somebody who hangs on too long, I understand a thousand percent why people do it. (5:20) A thousand percent. (5:21) I think it's, what is the not reciprocity?(5:26) What's the bias where you investment bias, you go and bias.

Alan Lazaros

(5:30) So you go explain that because I'll probably butcher it. (5:33) Once you're losing at the poker table and you, you're already 2000 down, you're much less likely to leave because you don't want to leave a loser. (5:41) You're, you're playing not to lose.(5:42) You want to gain your money back. (5:45) So now you want to, you keep losing more because you want to, when you want to get back up. (5:48) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(5:48) I think that's a, that's a, is it that simple? (5:52) Okay. (5:52) When you were gambling, what did you do?(5:56) That happened to me once.

Alan Lazaros

(5:58) What was the average? (5:59) What was the normal? (6:00) 3,200 bucks.(6:01) I lost. (6:01) I never lost before that. (6:03) I've only lost one time I've ever gambled at the casino.(6:06) That's because you were doing, you were playing, you were counting cards. (6:08) So you knew you were going to win. (6:10) You can never use me as an example.(6:11) You really can't use you as an example.

Kevin Palmieri

(6:13) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(6:13) Yeah. (6:13) I was counting cards. (6:14) A hundred percent.(6:15) Now that I remember it's not illegal. (6:17) Cause I used to think it's not allowed in Prague.

Kevin Palmieri

(6:19) First of all.

Alan Lazaros

(6:19) Yeah. (6:21) Oh, the poor casinos.

Kevin Palmieri

(6:22) Yeah. (6:22) Oh, but now you have a fair advantage.

Alan Lazaros

(6:24) I, I can say this. (6:27) I paid off my college debt.

Kevin Palmieri

(6:30) Gambling.

Alan Lazaros

(6:30) Counting cards.

Kevin Palmieri

(6:31) That movie is going to be really cool.

Alan Lazaros

(6:32) Five dollar blackjack tables, Mohegan's son.

Kevin Palmieri

(6:34) I went often. (6:36) Do you remember the Dos Equis commercial? (6:37) The most, uh, that could be you.(6:43) That could be you. (6:44) I appreciate it, man. (6:45) Yeah.(6:45) Yeah. (6:45) That could be you. (6:45) Okay.(6:46) So this doesn't work for you.

Alan Lazaros

(6:48) Um, I would say I suck at playing not so I'm not playing not to lose. (6:59) I am in relationships. (7:03) That was my biggest issue.(7:04) I was so afraid to lose relationships and friends and family and friends of friends that I would stay small and I wouldn't grow. (7:12) And I, and I would, I would be a chameleon. (7:15) That was, that was my unconscious motive.(7:17) I had abandonment challenges from my stepdad left. (7:19) I kind of lost three families by the time I was 14. (7:22) Obviously that's a very condensed way to say it, but it was very traumatic for me.(7:27) And since I've done a lot of therapy and now understand all this, I basically losing human, like losing relationships for me was like so painful. (7:37) And so I did everything I could to bring everyone with me toward their goals and dreams. (7:42) And I now realize that's one of the reasons I'm a good coach is because I think growing up, I wanted to make sure my friends got into the same college and we could all, that's why I brought my high school friends to college, college friends to corporate.(7:54) Like I brought a bunch of people to Cognex, man. (7:55) I made a lot of money on referral bonuses, but I have a theory.

Kevin Palmieri

(7:58) I have a thesis. (7:59) I have a thesis. (8:00) The things you hang on to are the things that you don't know how to get the things that you're willing to let go of to grow are the things that you feel comfortable you can do again.(8:10) That's a success for me. (8:10) I, I can't let go.

Alan Lazaros

(8:12) Is that why you were okay with getting fat? (8:15) Yeah. (8:16) And I say fat playfully.(8:18) Yeah. (8:19) Yeah. (8:20) He wasn't.(8:20) Yeah. (8:20) I can do it. (8:22) I know I can do it.(8:23) So you weren't afraid at all to not get that back. (8:25) No. (8:26) I also don't think you're aware of how much of an L that was from a time perspective.(8:31) Probably not. (8:32) Yeah, probably not. (8:32) But, but that makes sense.(8:34) That's why with, when we would lose a client, you'd, you'd be freaking out. (8:38) I'm like brother still just going to go get more clients still to this day.

Kevin Palmieri

(8:41) But here's the thing. (8:42) There's an upside and a downside for, for both. (8:45) I, I had a, I had a client who messaged me and said, Hey, can we hop on the phone today?(8:51) And I said, I'm back to back, but what do you got tomorrow? (8:53) And they said 8 00 AM. (8:54) And I was like, Oh my God.

Alan Lazaros

(8:56) Oh my God. (8:57) Yeah. (8:57) Whatever.(8:57) Do it. (8:58) That just landed for me. (8:59) Why?(9:00) No one wants to do my bulk challenge. (9:03) I'm not afraid of losing weight. (9:05) I can lose weight easily.

Kevin Palmieri

(9:07) That is so for context, we, we do the 10 pounds in 10 week weight loss challenge, a challenge, weight loss, I guess as a challenge. (9:15) I don't know. (9:15) It doesn't, it doesn't have to be 10 pounds.(9:17) If you don't want it, it can be whatever. (9:18) But Alan was like, we should do one in the opposite direction where we bulk and we gain muscle for X amount of time. (9:23) And I was like, that's not going to work.(9:25) There's no fucking chance that works. (9:28) No way. (9:29) You know why?(9:29) Because it's, it's planned behavior in the scary way in a scary decision. (9:39) It's like, okay, let's see how much money we can make this month versus let's see how much money we can invest in stuff. (9:45) Make awesome, invest not as awesome, less control.

Alan Lazaros

(9:53) A lot is landing for me. (9:54) For me, the investing money and the building muscle are scary, but necessary. (10:04) And honestly, let me rephrase.(10:06) I actually don't think those are scary. (10:08) I think it's scary not to, I do. (10:10) You understand why it's scary?(10:12) A hundred percent. (10:12) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(10:13) Because if you don't believe you can lose the weight, well, if you just, for sure, if, if you just join, like, let's imagine you just joined the next level fitness accountability group. (10:22) Awesome. (10:23) We do 10 pounds in 10 weeks.(10:24) You're in the best shape, or you're feeling the most confident you have in a long time. (10:30) You're going to hang on to that shit, not risk it to go in the opposite direction. (10:35) You're going to hang on.

Alan Lazaros

(10:36) I think we tend to hang on that you never reached the next level.

Kevin Palmieri

(10:40) I know, but it, it also feels like it guarantees that you stay at the level you're at, which is probably the most recent highest level.

Alan Lazaros

(10:48) Yeah. (10:48) Which is, that's such a hard, this goes back to the future self versus the current self, because if you don't sacrifice in the current self, you can't get to the next level by definition.

Kevin Palmieri

(11:03) To me, it goes back to the worth it thing. (11:05) To me, this, this whole thing for me is a conversation of, is it worth it? (11:10) Like, will it ultimately be worth it?(11:12) And I think for a lot, if you don't believe you're in control, it's not worth it. (11:16) It doesn't seem worth it at least.

Alan Lazaros

(11:17) So for the listeners, where do you feel you're in the most control? (11:22) It does make a lot of sense. (11:24) I never felt like I was in control of relationships.(11:29) Like, and I don't mean controlling people. (11:31) That's not what I'm saying. (11:32) It seemed like no matter what I did, it would just not work out.(11:40) And I realize now why my goals required me to constantly change, like constantly evolve. (11:52) I remember one time, and this is a close friend of mine growing up. (11:56) I think this will resonate with a lot of people that are growth oriented.(11:58) He's like, dude, you don't, you don't like skim milk. (12:01) You hate skim milk. (12:03) I was like, dude, I changed.(12:05) He was very mad. (12:06) We used to be adamant because I, as a kid, I hated skim milk. (12:09) It was disgusting.(12:10) But then I got into fitness and I realized you can get nine grams of protein per cup of milk with no fat. (12:16) This is awesome. (12:16) Let's go.(12:18) And he's like, dude, you don't like skim milk. (12:20) And I was like, no, I do now. (12:22) Right.(12:22) I changed. (12:23) And that person that I'm referring to has not changed that much. (12:26) That dude stayed the same.(12:30) Why? (12:31) Like, of course I evolved. (12:32) Of course I changed.(12:34) He probably doesn't believe he can or he doesn't have goals that require him to change. (12:40) This is one of the most painful things on planet earth. (12:43) When you set a goal for something you've never achieved before, you have to fucking change.(12:49) Have to. (12:50) Because you can't achieve a goal you've never achieved before until you become someone new. (12:55) You can't reach the next level and stay the same.(12:58) That's like wanting an iPhone 16 as an iPhone one. (13:01) It's the same concept. (13:02) It's impossible.

Kevin Palmieri

(13:04) What if your lack of feeling like you're in control and relationships is what mine was for success?

Alan Lazaros

(13:11) I think it is. (13:12) And I think that we both helped each other.

Kevin Palmieri

(13:14) I felt so out. (13:15) It was like, Oh God, it felt so bad. (13:21) So bad.(13:22) It was just like luck. (13:22) It's like, I don't know if it works. (13:24) Maybe it'll work.(13:25) I remember somebody I was working, I was working at the gas station and somebody said there's a, there was a Dunkin' Donuts warehouse, a couple of towns over, I think. (13:34) And they're like, yeah, I think they start at like, it was either like 16 bucks an hour. (13:39) So I was making like nine bucks an hour at the time.(13:42) And I remember going there and say, and I literally said like, it's probably not even worth it. (13:46) Like, I'm not going to get the fucking job. (13:47) I don't want to waste half a day going over there and doing an interview.(13:51) It just felt so hopeless. (13:52) I applied, didn't get the job. (13:55) So if anything, that re that reinforced, it was like, fuck this.(14:00) I remember I went, dude, I, I applied. (14:04) My God, I've completely forgotten about this. (14:06) I applied for a job.(14:07) There's a security company called Securitas and I applied for a security position, right? (14:14) The one time I martial arts training, I thought it was going to come in handy. (14:17) Didn't even get a fucking call back.(14:19) They didn't even call me back. (14:20) I thought for sure I was a shoo-in. (14:22) I applied at another warehouse, nothing.(14:25) I was like, there's no way I don't get this fucking job. (14:28) Didn't get the job.

Alan Lazaros

(14:29) Brother, now that you're a business owner. (14:30) Hey, now that you're a business owner. (14:32) Yeah.(14:32) How much does that make sense now? (14:34) Not as much as you think. (14:36) I would, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll work all these people.

Kevin Palmieri

(14:39) Are you kidding me? (14:39) They don't know that. (14:41) Let me show you.(14:42) They probably didn't even look at the fucking resume, man. (14:44) Well, then what am I supposed to do? (14:47) It was a moonwalk in there and do a handstand and show them what's up.

Alan Lazaros

(14:50) Doesn't it make sense? (14:51) You got to apply a shitload in order to get a job. (14:53) Like that part, that part makes sense.(14:55) It's 100 applications, 30 responses, 10 first interviews, three second interviews, one job. (15:02) That's the, that's the statistics of it.

Kevin Palmieri

(15:04) It was fucking, talk about just self-esteem hit after self-esteem, chucking your tail.

Alan Lazaros

(15:10) I felt that way in relationships.

Kevin Palmieri

(15:12) Well, shout out to us for understanding what it's like on the other end, I guess.

Alan Lazaros

(15:16) I had one last piece. (15:18) I gotta go. (15:19) Yeah, we gotta go.(15:20) The one relationship I was in, I'll keep it anonymous. (15:23) The better I became, the worse the relationship got. (15:27) And eventually I was like, what is this about?(15:29) I've gotten better and this keeps getting worse. (15:32) There's got to be something to this. (15:33) And then I finally broke free and I realized, oh, it's not me.(15:37) Holy crap. (15:38) And it wasn't me. (15:39) I'm in a great relationship now.(15:40) And it's unbelievable. (15:41) It's not even close. (15:42) Like it turns out, you know, I was with this mindset person.

Kevin Palmieri

(15:46) If you and I have talked about this behind the scenes, if Taryn finds somebody better, I want her to go be with that person. (15:50) Same with Emilia. (15:51) A hundred percent.(15:52) That's literally the, I'm not hanging on. (15:54) Like that's, that's it. (15:56) I'm doing this to be the best I can be.(15:58) And I want to treat her the best I possibly can. (15:59) She wakes up in one day. (16:00) I will be devastated.(16:01) Obviously.

Alan Lazaros

(16:01) Of course.

Kevin Palmieri

(16:02) And I will say unkind things about whoever the other person is for sure. (16:07) And I'll be like, yeah, that's what I said. (16:09) That is what I said.

Alan Lazaros

(16:10) Well, you want what's best for her regardless of yourself. (16:12) A hundred percent. (16:13) That's, that's, that's the true.(16:14) That's, that's a whole nother episode, but yeah. (16:16) All right. (16:17) Cool.(16:17) Great job. (16:18) So I appreciate it to grow up. (16:20) Are you playing not to lose or are you playing to win and assess this for you?

Kevin Palmieri

(16:24) Yeah. (16:26) And where are the places that you're really strong in one? (16:29) Where are the places where you feel like you have resistance?(16:30) That's where you need to do the work. (16:32) Most likely the one that you don't want to do is probably the one you're going to do the work at. (16:35) All right.(16:36) Cool. (16:36) Group coaching starts. (16:38) Sorry.(16:38) Next level podcast accelerator. (16:39) How dare I? (16:40) October 7th.(16:41) Alan has coaching slots available. (16:42) Book club every Saturday at 1230. (16:44) All of that.(16:44) Happy Jess. (16:45) As always, we love you. (16:46) We appreciate you.(16:47) Grateful for each and every one of you. (16:48) And if you are as committed as you say you are to getting to the next level, make sure you tune in tomorrow because we will be here every day to help you get there. (16:55) Keep reaching for your full potential.

Alan Lazaros

(16:57) Next level nation.

Kevin Palmieri

(17:00) Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. (17:04) We love connecting with the next level family.

Alan Lazaros

(17:06) We mean it when we say family. (17:08) If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. (17:12) Everything you need to get ahold of us is in the show notes.(17:15) Thank you again. (17:16) And we will talk to you tomorrow.