The 2 Types Of Growth (2270)

In today’s episode of Next Level University, hosts Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros explain why real growth only happens through two pathways: proactive decision-making or reactive necessity. They break down how identity, belief, risk tolerance, and long-term consistency shape every self-improvement and personal development outcome. You’ll learn why some people stay ahead of their results while others are forced to level up only when circumstances demand it. 

This is a direct, grounded look at how high performers make better decisions, build sustainable habits, and create a life they can truly support as they grow.

Choose your next level before your circumstances choose it for you.

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For more information, check out our website and socials using the links below. 👇

Website: http://www.nextleveluniverse.com

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Email:
Kevin@nextleveluniverse.com
Alan@nextleveluniverse.com

LinkedIn:
Kevin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-palmieri-5b7736160/
Alan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanlazarosllc/

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Show notes:
(1:19) Kevin’s wiring: Getting first, then growing to keep it
(4:20) The two types of growth: Proactive Vs. Reactive
(4:49) Why long-term goals increase capability
(5:53) Designing goals that match real potential
(8:01) When your results outgrow your skillset
(9:10) The hybrid growth model
(10:52) Kevin’s history of leveling up out of necessity
(14:27) Life’s “levels” and why capability must expand
(17:48) True freedom comes from being ahead of your results
(20:56) Outro

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Chapters

• 1:19 Kevin’s wiring: Getting first, then growing to keep it
• 4:20 The two types of growth: Proactive Vs. Reactive
• 4:49 Why long-term goals increase capability
• 5:53 Designing goals that match real potential
• 8:01 When your results outgrow your skillset
• 9:10 The hybrid growth model
• 10:52 Kevin’s history of leveling up out of necessity
• 14:27 Life’s “levels” and why capability must expand
• 17:48 True freedom comes from being ahead of your results
• 20:56 Outro

Transcript

Kevin Palmieri

(0:00) Alan and I have been having some very deep life conversations behind the scenes based on circumstances and opportunities, and we had a breakthrough that we wanted to share. (0:10) So we had a breakthrough in real time a day or two ago that we're going to share for today's episode.

Alan Lazaros

(0:16) Growth is going to have to happen one way or another, but you can be proactive with it instead of entirely reactive. (0:24) Welcome to Next Level University.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:26) I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri. (0:28) And I'm your co-host, Alan Lazarus. (0:31) At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven, but no-BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros

(0:38) Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health, and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:44) We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits, and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros

(1:00) Self-improvement, in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free. (1:07) Welcome to Next Level University.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:12) Next Level Nation today for episode number 2,270, The Two Types of Growth. (1:19) So this is a weird thought process because I am now more convinced than ever that the whole seeing-is-believing thing, there's another layer to it, and it's seeing-is-believing, and then getting creates more belief. (1:42) Slash more consistency, slash more discipline, potentially, if you're wired in a certain way.(1:48) So as I mentioned previously, Tyra and I are looking for a new home, and there are a lot of options out there, and I came to Alan and said, this is one, this is one, this is something, here, what do you think? (2:03) And we were talking about the numbers and whether it makes sense or not. (2:06) And the conversation was, if you do do this, you are going to have to grow into a new version of Kev, and Taryn is going to have to grow into a new version of Taryn, and if you had already grown into that, this would be a no-brainer, but that wasn't necessarily the case.(2:25) And I said to Alan, I said, I don't know if this is a cop-out, I don't know if this is an excuse, I don't know if this is me just justifying, I feel like it's always been, I get the thing, and then it forces me to level up. (2:38) My car is a really good example. (2:41) I remember, I said this to Matt when I was first looking for a new car a couple years ago, and he said, wow, you know you, dude, you get something nice like that, it'll probably motivate you to work harder.(2:52) And I was like, that's not real. (2:53) I think that's real. (2:54) I do, I think, I don't know, I think I've always kind of jumped into water that was over my head, and then it forced me to learn how to swim.(3:02) So your motivation to keep is stronger than your motivation to get? (3:06) I don't believe I can get. (3:08) So when I get it, then it's like, I need to keep this.(3:12) I need to figure out how to, I think it's that. (3:15) Now I have more belief that I can get, but yeah, I think it wires me in a way that, I think I'm wired in a way that if I don't believe I can get something, the first step is me existing in the same reality of that. (3:29) Test driving the car, renting the car, whatever it is.(3:31) Then it's like, okay, that's realer than I thought it was. (3:36) And then from there, I come to you and say, what has to happen in order for me to do this? (3:40) And you say here, and it's like, I'll go do that now.(3:43) It's not even about the thing anymore. (3:46) It's about what is the process I need to do in order to get the thing. (3:50) Sometimes it happens where the thing gets to me faster than I thought it would.(3:56) And then I have to have a conversation. (3:57) It's like, well, what do I have to do in reactively to level up? (4:01) But I don't know.(4:02) I used to think that was a bad thing. (4:04) I'm not saying it's optimal. (4:06) I'm not saying if I could go back and choose the way I was wired, I would wire it that way.(4:09) But I think awareness is a really good place to start. (4:12) That is definitely the way I'm wired. (4:14) And I think I've been able to use that in a relatively positive way at least.(4:18) And I guess that's kind of the point of the conversation.

Alan Lazaros

(4:20) Well, there's only two ways. (4:24) You believe it in advance. (4:26) So you set a goal.(4:28) And then the thing is either the goal when you get it, or it's the thing that comes along the way of getting it. (4:34) Yeah. (4:35) And so the way that I've sort of designed my life is I set a goal that's so high and so long term.(4:43) We do seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, quarters, years, decades, lifetime, and then beyond your own lifetime, which is legacy. (4:49) I just decided, okay, what's the one goal? (4:52) I do this with my clients.(4:53) We have this ladder that I draw out and it's seconds, minutes, all the way to beyond your own lifetime. (4:58) And I say, okay, what's the beyond your own lifetime goal that you want to have that forces you in the moment to become the best version of yourself? (5:08) And if you don't have high self-belief, you're probably not going to start there.(5:14) Definitely not going to start there.

Kevin Palmieri

(5:16) No, and you shouldn't probably.

Alan Lazaros

(5:17) So I'm going to give you guys all an example. (5:19) So I have one client, shout out to you, I know you're listening, who has a $100 million net worth goal. (5:25) And this is in the average life expectancy is 80 years old.(5:29) I think it's a little lower for men, a little higher for women, but it's around 80. (5:34) And we sort of planned out his financial future and it's totally doable. (5:40) And he's at, I think, 1.3 million right now. (5:44) But the point that I'm making here is, if you don't... (5:49) And when I first met him, his goal was only 10. (5:52) And I showed him the numbers and I showed him his trajectory.(5:55) And he owns a lot of properties. (5:56) And I said, brother, 10, you could start screwing up right now and still crush that goal. (6:04) What are we doing here?(6:06) And to me, I now realize, and I'm explaining this as best I can, his goals were not designed. (6:13) And yes, I know you're listening. (6:15) His goals were not designed to maximize his potential.(6:18) He wanted to have a good life. (6:22) And this is what he decided to do. (6:23) And I said, brother, with all the love, you're way more capable than this.(6:27) This is easy street for you. (6:30) And he agrees. (6:31) And that's why we upped it.(6:32) And now he's learning things he never would have learned. (6:34) He's just bought a book called The Five Types of Wealth. (6:37) And it's like, dude, most of what you do in life is a byproduct of a goddamn goal.(6:43) He's becoming so much more. (6:45) He's exercising every day. (6:47) He's tracking his sleep.(6:49) Like all of the good things that he's doing in his life, leading by example for his kids, for his wife. (6:56) He's starting a company. (6:57) He's doing landscaping.(6:59) It's like all of that is a byproduct of the bigger goal. (7:04) And if you only wanted 10 million for your net worth goal, you wouldn't have had to do any of that. (7:10) You certainly don't have to fucking work with me.(7:13) So what if all the things we want in life are a byproduct of a bigger goal? (7:19) And to Kevin's point, there's two ways to approach life. (7:23) There's the crazier, rarer way that I do it, which is set your legacy, do a vision board, figure out what you want to accomplish in your life, and then reverse engineer it and then just suffer your way to it.(7:33) I'm joking, but sacrifice and struggle and suffer and work toward it. (7:39) And then who you are is always more than the results. (7:45) So right now, I would say that my skills, my awareness, my capabilities are higher than my current results.(7:51) And I think that's a really good place to be because it's not a scarce place to be. (7:55) I'm not super concerned about not knowing enough tomorrow to keep our success. (8:01) Whereas I do think at times in the past, Kev got to a new level that he didn't know he was going to get to.(8:09) And then it was like, how the fuck do I hold on to this? (8:12) And I never really felt that way because I feel like the levels that we've gotten to, I was already shooting for a long time ago. (8:19) And quite frankly, the goals that we've achieved are actually little milestones to a much bigger, much, much bigger vision.(8:27) And I probably don't talk about that stuff enough, or maybe too much, we'll see. (8:32) At the end of the day, there's two ways to level up. (8:35) You either go get that short-term thing that you really want, and you put yourself in a temporarily precarious spot that you then have to level up in order to keep, which is Kevin's approach.(8:46) Or you do my approach and just make sure that you are constantly learning, constantly getting better, constantly improving, constantly taking courses, constantly improving your skills, constantly finding ways to improve yourself and others. (8:59) And then you end up achieving goals as a byproduct of who you are. (9:03) Last piece, and the third option, which is what we're probably going to suggest in this episode that I just came to, that Kevin probably just came to too, which is you should obviously do both, the hybrid.(9:10) You should do both, the hybrid model. (9:13) Because if you have a low risk tolerance, one of the things that I think has helped you get here, Kev, is your risk tolerance is high. (9:19) Statistically speaking.(9:20) I know you don't think it's high because you're probably freaking out inside. (9:23) But it is higher than most, dude.

Kevin Palmieri

(9:25) I mean, I think it's had to be. (9:29) I was thinking the other day, like I was thinking back to... (9:33) I was thinking back to when I was like in my mid-20s and I went through a really hard breakup, and I went to sleep, I went to live with family, friends, and I was sleeping with, sleeping in my best friend's sister.

Alan Lazaros

(9:48) Sleeping with my family friends.

Kevin Palmieri

(9:49) Sleeping with my family friends. (9:51) I was sleeping in what was like my kid sister's bedroom, and like how fucking humbling that was. (9:59) But I remember I felt so successful because I was making so much money.(10:04) At one point, the family said, hey, we need new windows. (10:07) Can we borrow like five grand? (10:08) I was like, yeah, I got you.(10:10) Just get it back when you can, no worries. (10:12) That's awesome. (10:12) But it was just like a really, I was like, holy shit, I've really made something of this.(10:16) And then from there, I moved to this terrible apartment building where I used to sleep with my gun under my pillow. (10:24) And I just remember thinking like, oh my god, this is fucking terrible.

Alan Lazaros

(10:27) Why did you sleep with your gun under your pillow? (10:29) I love these stories. (10:30) Because I was...

Kevin Palmieri

(10:31) Honestly, it wasn't as bad as I probably make it seem. (10:34) It was just, this was my first apartment by myself.

Alan Lazaros

(10:37) It's probably as bad as you make it seem.

Kevin Palmieri

(10:38) No, no, in retrospect, I've, trust me, I've stayed in worse places than this for sure. (10:44) But I was scared. (10:45) Yeah, I was scared.(10:46) Like, dude, I don't, I could never paint a picture of how fucking lonely this time of my life was. (10:52) I was gone every week. (10:53) I would come home to this cold, gross apartment by myself, like couldn't sleep because I was afraid.(11:00) It was terrible. (11:01) Fucking terrible. (11:02) Then I moved into a really nice place in Boston and that went to shit.(11:06) The couple that we moved in with was like, they were having a lot of threesomes with people and fitness trainers and stuff. (11:11) It got weird. (11:13) There was just a, like, it has been a journey for sure.

Alan Lazaros

(11:19) And I always have a hard time.

Kevin Palmieri

(11:20) I always have a hard time because your life sometimes is... (11:25) It's the same for me. (11:26) When you cry, I can't not laugh.(11:29) Not that I don't love you and I feel deeply, but that is my trauma response. (11:32) It's like, oh my God, someone's crying. (11:34) It's time to make a funny.

Alan Lazaros

(11:35) There's something about suffering and just like the stories you tell, man, are so brutal.

Kevin Palmieri

(11:40) It was worse than most people know, honestly.

Alan Lazaros

(11:44) It was worse than most people know. (11:45) Now that you're not at all a loser in any regard. (11:48) I mean, dude, some of those stories, you were such a loser.

Kevin Palmieri

(11:51) I was such a loser. (11:52) With all the love. (11:53) The point of all that is, dude, so many, I think so many of the things I had to get through, I just was like, oh my God, this is my life now.(12:04) I have to figure out how to do this. (12:07) I'll never forget. (12:08) And I know you have something to say.(12:10) I'll never forget. (12:12) My partner in the time moved into a new apartment together. (12:16) And then she left like three months later.(12:19) And the landlord was like, hey, I have to take her to court because she owes half the rent. (12:24) And I said, nah, I'll find a way. (12:25) I'll find a way.(12:26) I'll find a way. (12:27) And that was the year I was the most, that's the year I made the most money I've ever made. (12:30) Well, at the time.

Alan Lazaros

(12:32) Isn't there something to that? (12:33) And I do, you're right. (12:35) I do want to share this.(12:36) So everyone out there who is a business owner or an aspiring business owner, I know there's a lot of you that are thinking about it. (12:43) Do not do what we did and go all in and quit your job and all that stuff. (12:47) Like do the slow build, please, please do the slow build.(12:52) The top five fundamentals of business you must understand to be successful long-term. (12:56) I'm doing a masterclass this Thursday, December 4th at 5 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. (13:01) The registration link will be in the show notes.(13:03) It's totally free to register. (13:04) I'm not going to ask you for your phone number. (13:06) It's just first, last name and email.(13:08) And you're not going to get spammed by me or anything like that. (13:10) It's totally free. (13:12) And we are very protective of this space because I had a AI bot in book club.(13:18) I don't know if I've told you about this yet, Kev, but I'm going to make sure I actually know you. (13:22) So if you do register, I'm going to end up emailing you just saying, hey, I just want to make sure, you know, you're an actual listener, a real person. (13:29) In the AI world, there's a lot of bots going on in Zoom and all kinds of stuff.(13:33) Although I do think they're upping their security because of it. (13:36) Cybersecurity is a big deal in the 21st century, but that's neither here nor there. (13:40) The top five fundamentals of business you must understand to be successful long-term.(13:45) Just don't go in blind because it's atrocious. (13:48) It's bad. (13:48) It's real tough.(13:49) Like I'm not going to lie to you. (13:51) I'm going to tell you the things that I think will be the foundation that you can sort of decide whether or not you actually want to do this. (13:57) And I hope to see you there.(13:59) Boom. (13:59) You were saying something before that as well. (14:02) So isn't that kind of how life works?(14:08) And I always use this metaphor, and maybe I'm the only one who uses it. (14:11) I don't know. (14:12) But I've never heard it from anyone else.(14:13) But I always think this way. (14:15) So I'm always wondering why other people didn't say this. (14:17) It's like each level of life is set up for us in a way.(14:23) And I think it's that way for a reason. (14:25) And I'm not saying it's optimal, but bear with me. (14:27) So the traditional path in America is preschool, kindergarten, elementary school, middle school, high school, college, corporate, and then entrepreneurship.(14:39) It's supposed to kind of be in that order. (14:41) Usually you don't just start your own company at 17. (14:44) Steve Jobs and Wozniak started their company Apple in their parents' garage when they were 20.(14:50) That's an anomaly. (14:51) That's not normal, right? (14:52) I started my first company when I was 20 as well.(14:55) It's called Campus Libre. (14:56) And that's weird stuff. (14:58) Normally, most people don't start their companies until they're at least their 30s.(15:02) The large majority. (15:03) Most billionaires don't become billionaires until they're in their 40s or 50s or even 60s and 70s. (15:09) Anyways, my point is about a success podcast here is life is set up with these levels.(15:15) And in preschool, I remember there was a girl. (15:17) You'll recognize this. (15:18) Her name is Carrie.(15:20) And first names only. (15:21) And I was like, oh, she's super cute. (15:23) I'm going to get her.(15:25) And I want to play with her, right? (15:26) And I don't mean that sounded bad. (15:28) I was in preschool.(15:29) So kindergarten, actually, kindergarten. (15:32) And the point is that each of these levels of life is like this little box of rules. (15:39) And if you think of game theory and you think of, okay, I'm going to jump into this new game.(15:45) And preschool, okay, I'm going to figure out how to win preschool. (15:47) And all the kids are trying to figure out who's who and what's what and how this works and who gets laughed at and who gets picked on and who doesn't and who's the popular kids and who's not. (15:55) And then it's a little bigger.(15:56) It's like, okay, elementary school or kindergarten, a little bigger. (16:00) And then after, okay, I won kindergarten. (16:01) Now I have to win elementary school.(16:03) Okay, what does that mean? (16:04) And then it's middle school. (16:07) Then it's high school.(16:08) Then it's college. (16:09) Then it's corporate. (16:10) And then you get into the world of entrepreneurship.(16:14) And it's even worse. (16:16) It's like so much bigger. (16:17) Now you aren't competing with, you know, the other people at your company or the people in your industry.(16:24) There's 8 billion people on the planet. (16:26) There's 195 countries. (16:28) Like how does this global economics thing work?(16:31) And so I think life is set up in a way where you're supposed to level up as you go. (16:39) And I think that we stop. (16:41) Like after school, we stop reading books.(16:42) We stop being forced to do the work. (16:44) We stop growing. (16:45) Not all of us, but statistically.(16:47) And I think you've been a little bit reckless in the sense of you just kind of jumped into the new. (16:53) It's like you start out in this little pond, hometown, whatever. (16:57) And then you jump into a big pond.(16:59) And then you jump into a small lake. (17:01) And then you jump into a big lake. (17:03) And now you're in the fucking Great Lakes.(17:04) And now you're in the ocean. (17:05) And now you're in the Atlantic Ocean. (17:07) And eventually, if I don't learn how to swim, I'm gonna die out here.(17:12) And I think that the fun part about being into personal growth, the only thing that's fun about it, because the rest of it blows, is you get to be more capable than your circumstances. (17:24) So for me, there's nothing in my life that I feel incapable of sustaining. (17:28) Nothing.(17:29) My relationship with Emilia, I feel ahead of the curve in terms of my development to be with a woman like Emilia, to be business partners with you, there's no clients where I'm like, oh, I hope I'm not smart enough. (17:41) I hope I'm smart enough to help them. (17:44) So that's the true freedom, I think, is being ahead of your results.(17:48) Because I think when your results are ahead of you, you end up kind of trapped, or you end up leveling up, like you're saying, because the necessity is so high. (17:55) I think we should do a part two on this.

Kevin Palmieri

(17:57) I do. (17:58) Because I would love to chat about what is more optimal. (18:02) How do you know which one you are?(18:04) How many... (18:05) There's so many things we're doing for clients right now that I would never have just decided to do. (18:10) Agreed.(18:11) But it came along and I was like, yeah, we can figure that out. (18:13) Yeah, why not? (18:14) We can figure that out.(18:14) So that was all reactive. (18:16) None of that was proactive.

Alan Lazaros

(18:18) Interesting. (18:19) But it was built on the previous experiences of all the previous levels. (18:25) Yeah.(18:25) It's not like you went from, hey, I want to be a podcast coach to producing 80 shows. (18:29) You would die. (18:31) That would never work.(18:32) For sure, for sure. (18:32) And that's why I'm such a big believer in the compound effect. (18:35) I know we got to get out of here.(18:36) But that's... (18:37) If you grow proactively day to day, that's why I'm doing TED Talk Neuroscience every day. (18:42) And because I want to make sure my brain and body, mind, body, heart, and soul are more capable every single day so that I'm always ahead of my results, so that I'm always in control of that next level, next level, next level.(18:56) And I think I've probably unconsciously... (18:59) So for example, there's certain clients that I've tried to make sure Kevin gets because... (19:05) And I never told you this, so this is the first time you're probably hearing this.(19:09) But we work with Evolve Ventures, for example. (19:11) We produce their podcast. (19:12) One of the reasons why I want us producing their show is so that she helps you level up.

Kevin Palmieri

(19:18) But is that because you know I will do it reactively? (19:22) Yes.

Alan Lazaros

(19:23) Right? (19:23) So I'm trying to play the orchestra, and I know you'll get better at the tuba if Emilia is forcing you to because she has higher standards than most of our clients just for herself. (19:34) So we're about to do more work with them.(19:37) They're going to start two YouTube channels, and we're going to be producing all that. (19:40) And I'm excited because... (19:41) Not just because of a new client, but I'm excited because number one, it'll help them win.(19:45) And number two, you'll level up, and our whole team will level up, which needs to happen in order for us to be the most successful podcast production company on planet Earth. (19:52) So it's all by design. (19:54) But I couldn't just go from zero clients to 80 clients like that because that's how you not only create trauma, but you also lose all your clients because you're not capable.

Kevin Palmieri

(20:07) Well, it's just interesting how things connect. (20:11) I think the reason I am this way is because this has just been my history. (20:15) I've just jumped into everything.(20:17) I went from not knowing a lick about bodybuilding to like, yeah, I'll sign up and do a bodybuilding show. (20:21) Cool. (20:21) What do I...(20:22) Now what? (20:22) What do I do? (20:23) You wear underwear on stage.(20:25) Like, oh, okay. (20:26) Okay. (20:26) Where do I get that?(20:27) How do I do that? (20:28) All right, cool. (20:29) So many of my stories are literally, I got an opportunity because of personality, work ethic, whatever, luck in some cases.(20:37) And then my goal was always to outperform the expectations that were put on me. (20:42) Always. (20:42) Well, this is...(20:43) Always, always, always. (20:44) It was supposed to work out then. (20:45) It's very interesting.(20:46) All right, we're gonna do a part two. (20:47) We'll do a part two of this. (20:48) If you're looking for a group of amazing humans, number one, go to the masterclass, obviously.(20:52) Make sure you join Next Level Nation, private Facebook group filled with amazing next levelers like yourself. (20:56) As always, we love you. (20:57) We appreciate you.(20:58) Grateful for each and every one of you. (20:59) And if you are as committed as you say you are to getting to the next level, make sure you tune in tomorrow because we will be here every single day to help you get there.

Alan Lazaros

(21:06) Keep leveling up every day to reach your true potential. (21:09) Next Level Nation.

Kevin Palmieri

(21:11) Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. (21:15) We love connecting with the Next Level family.

Alan Lazaros

(21:18) We mean it when we say family. (21:20) If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. (21:23) Everything you need to get ahold of us is in the show notes.(21:27) Thank you again, and we will talk to you tomorrow.