How To Start Optimizing For Fulfillment (2282)

In today’s episode of Next Level University, hosts Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros challenge how most people think about fulfillment and why chasing the wrong thing leads to long-term dissatisfaction. They examine the gap between outcomes and meaning, question commonly accepted definitions of happiness, and address why fulfillment cannot be manufactured through success alone. Drawing from years of experience and real-world patterns, this episode reframes fulfillment as something built over time, not something found in a moment.

This conversation is a grounded reminder that meaning is earned through consistent execution and personal alignment, not intention or emotion.

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Visual Asset:
The Pyramid of Fulfillment

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Show notes:
(1:18) Fulfillment is a byproduct, not a goal
(3:46) Reverse engineering fulfillment
(6:17) Universal principles, personal execution
(8:05) Why fulfillment cannot be seen online
(10:54) Happiness burns fast, fulfillment endures
(11:52) Fulfillment across past, present, and future
(13:53) Why can you not force fulfillment
(15:24) Outro

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Chapters

• 1:18 Fulfillment is a byproduct, not a goal
• 3:46 Reverse engineering fulfillment
• 6:17 Universal principles, personal execution
• 8:05 Why fulfillment cannot be seen online
• 10:54 Happiness burns fast, fulfillment endures
• 11:52 Fulfillment across past, present, and future
• 13:53 Why can you not force fulfillment
• 15:24 Outro

Transcript

Kevin Palmieri

(0:00) I remember Alan and I were in the studio one day and he was talking about fulfillment and I'm pretty sure it was the first time I'd ever actually heard that word. (0:08) I was like, what is that? (0:09) Like feelings, like happiness, kind of a contentment.(0:12) What does that mean? (0:13) Today we're going to talk about that.

Alan Lazaros

(0:16) Fulfillment is I think what you optimize for in life, meaning fulfillment purpose, and it's a by-product, not an actual goal.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:25) Welcome to Next Level University. (0:28) I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri. (0:30) And I'm your co-host, Alan Lazarus.(0:33) At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven, but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros

(0:40) Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health, and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:46) We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits in defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros

(1:02) Self-improvement in your pocket every day from anywhere, completely free.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:09) Welcome to Next Level University. (1:14) Next Level Nation today for episode number 2,282. (1:17) We're going to hit you with a quick one.(1:18) Okay. (1:18) This is going to be like a scratching the surface episode from the old hyperconscious days. (1:22) We have like 10 ish, 12 ish minutes to do this.(1:25) We will add value. (1:26) I promise. (1:26) Thank you so much.(1:27) How to start optimizing for fulfillment. (1:30) So I told Alan, I said, I feel like I don't really know how to talk about fulfillment because I feel like I kind of fell into it slash was dragged into it by, by him. (1:40) I knew I loved podcasting and I knew if I can make a life of this, it would be fulfilling.(1:44) But when somebody says describe fulfillment, I don't, for me, it's like, it's contentment isn't the word, it's contentment on the way to more contentment slash ambition. (2:01) Like I think you've ever been, I can see it all over you. (2:04) I'm also, yeah, but it's been a week.(2:07) Yeah. (2:07) I had a whiskey. (2:08) I had a whiskey last night.(2:09) I had to, I needed it. (2:11) I had a whiskey.

Alan Lazaros

(2:12) Is that why you woke up in such a good mood?

Kevin Palmieri

(2:14) Yes.

Alan Lazaros

(2:14) I'm kidding. (2:15) But I could tell, and you could tell I wasn't today. (2:18) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(2:18) I literally was like, you good man? (2:22) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(2:22) Yeah. (2:22) Everything's fine. (2:24) No, uh, you're in the most fulfilled place right now.(2:27) I was on with a client last night. (2:28) I could see it all over. (2:29) She's so fulfilled.(2:30) It's really, really good. (2:31) I'm always, so I always have a pulse on that because ultimately I think that's what people want. (2:36) Again, one of the things that I think is really hard about topics like this is the things we want are conscientiousness.(2:44) No one wakes up in the morning, like I'm going to work on my conscientiousness today, but that's actually what creates success. (2:50) And the hardest part about life we're doing causation correlation book club today, rationality by Steven Pinker. (2:56) And I was thinking to myself, how many people are contemplating cause and effect and causation versus correlation and root cause analysis?(3:03) Like what do we all want in life? (3:06) Everyone wants to be fulfilled, even if they don't know what that is or maybe they can't define it. (3:11) Everyone wants that feeling of, I love who I am.(3:16) I love who I'm becoming. (3:17) I'm proud of the man or woman I've become. (3:20) Or whatever you identify as.(3:21) I'm fulfillment is a byproduct though. (3:25) You can't wake up and shoot for, okay, imagine if today you were like, all right, fuck yeah, I'm up, let's get it. (3:32) Caffeine in me.(3:33) I'm going to, I'm going to go get fulfilled as hell today. (3:35) It's not, that's not what doesn't work. (3:38) What does it though?(3:41) Cause not unless you're reverse engineering it and you understand that it's a byproduct, not a, not a goal. (3:46) Okay. (3:47) Cause like when you said you fell into it, you have all the ingredients of fulfillment.(3:52) We have that 21 category pyramid that we do in group coaching that we used to do. (3:57) You have all of those at very high, even if you haven't assessed yourself.

Kevin Palmieri

(4:02) Describe it. (4:03) What, what is, what does it feel? (4:04) What does fulfillment feel like to you as somebody who just constantly looks like they're losing and is slowly getting bludgeoned to death?(4:13) It looks like self esteem.

Alan Lazaros

(4:17) What's it feel like? (4:18) It feels like pride, but not the ego version. (4:25) You're very proud of yourself.(4:27) It's very clear. (4:27) You feel really good about yourself, like what you've accomplished, who you are as a man, your relationship with Taryn. (4:33) It's obvious.(4:34) Yeah. (4:35) The work you're doing in the world, you believe in it. (4:37) It's, it's really special.(4:38) Yeah, it's really good. (4:39) But it's a fucking nightmare to try to design your life around that because there's 21 categories, brother. (4:45) We created a pyramid of fulfillment.(4:47) And when I say we, I mean mostly me, but 21 categories. (4:53) If I were to go through that pyramid with you, you'd have very high in all of them. (4:57) That's why you're so fulfilled right now.

Kevin Palmieri

(4:59) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(5:00) And it took me, Emilia was a part of it. (5:04) She, she created the belonging piece. (5:06) Um, you had a couple.(5:08) Lifestyle.

Kevin Palmieri

(5:08) It's got, I think, I feel like lifestyle has got to be mine.

Alan Lazaros

(5:11) Maybe lifestyle has got to be in there. (5:12) Yeah. (5:13) I don't know if that's one of the categories, but like, um, health is in there.(5:20) I'll put the digital asset in the show notes for everybody. (5:22) It's free. (5:23) Put it in the show notes at the very least.(5:26) Give yourself a self, self assessment. (5:28) We did this in group coaching in the past. (5:30) We did this dozens of times.(5:32) It's crazy that I can say over a dozen times, not dozens, over a dozen times. (5:36) And we used to do it live with a team member called Jesse, Jesse Brown. (5:40) Shout out to Jesse.(5:42) And we would go through each category zero to 10. (5:46) Now I would do green, yellow, red, cause that's easier. (5:49) And then we would add up all the categories, divide by 21.(5:52) The average was how fulfilled she felt every time. (5:54) Yeah. (5:55) And within plus or minus, obviously, but fulfillment's tough because it, it, it's like soup.(6:02) You, you have a little bit of broth, you have a little bit of chicken, you have a little bit of, and it's unique to everybody, but the principles are the same for everyone. (6:09) So for example, who we fall in love with is completely unique to us, but having love, love in your life is not right. (6:17) What creates a sense of belonging?(6:18) We all need belonging, but what creates a sense of belonging is unique. (6:22) So the, the pillars, the fundamentals don't change, but the way you achieve those pillars do.

Kevin Palmieri

(6:28) I had a breakthrough yesterday. (6:29) I was talking to Taryn. (6:31) I don't think we talked about this on the podcast.(6:32) We did legs together and I was, I got up to like three 85 squats. (6:38) I was, it was really good. (6:39) I had a great squat session and I just get so much love in the gym.(6:42) Like people just come up to me and ask me questions or like, Oh dude, you're strong as shit. (6:46) That's one of the reasons I like it so much is I get so much significance. (6:49) I belong, I feel like I belong at the gym.(6:51) Not, not only do, and again, not from a place of ego, not only do I feel like I belong, I feel like I belong in almost any gym. (6:59) Like I can lead in, in most gyms, which is just weird. (7:01) So right now health is going really well.(7:04) You know, fitness has been great. (7:05) My body feels great. (7:06) I'm strong.(7:07) Awesome. (7:08) I'm bulking, but I still have abs somehow. (7:10) Like it's going really well, better than expected.(7:14) Business and money, the best it's ever been for sure. (7:17) And that is a main driver for me for sure. (7:19) And then Tara and I are the best we've ever been to.

Alan Lazaros

(7:21) Yeah, there it is.

Kevin Palmieri

(7:21) Even though I'm the most overwhelmed I've ever been. (7:24) It's, it's yeah, I think it's progress. (7:27) Fulfillment to me is like, I'm on the right path.(7:31) And if things only, if things just stayed the same forever in the way I feel about things, this would be like a really good life. (7:39) This would be a really good journey. (7:41) Now they're not going to because every day you're watching this and listening to this and focusing on getting to the next level.(7:47) But it's hard. (7:48) It's a hard thing to talk about because it's invisible. (7:51) But I would say that when you get to know somebody and you get really close to somebody, you can tell, but you can't tell on social.(7:58) When you're looking on social media, you can't tell if somebody's fulfilled. (8:01) I don't think so. (8:01) Why is that?(8:02) Because it's easy to fake it. (8:03) It's easy to fake it. (8:04) You really can't.(8:05) That is. (8:05) Because I could show a picture of me and Taryn sitting on the hood of a Ferrari and I could be flexing and people might think like health, wealth and love, but you don't know behind the scenes what any of that is like. (8:16) It could be terrible.(8:18) Yeah. (8:18) You know, so you can fake it online.

Alan Lazaros

(8:21) When I was faking fulfillment, I don't think, I don't think, um, I posted a video yesterday with the, basically the most miserable I've ever been was the photo that I started the video with. (8:33) And if you go to my Instagram, it's the latest post. (8:38) I don't think I was fooling anybody.

Kevin Palmieri

(8:40) Maybe I think you were. (8:41) I think you were. (8:42) Really?(8:42) We used to, I look miserable in that photo. (8:45) You look miserable cause you know what you look like happy, but nobody else does. (8:48) My buddy, I used to, the company I used to work with Ray, my buddy and I, Ray, we had a blast and we used to have like a little Snapchat series where people would literally watch us at work and then like message us.(8:59) And we had like a little, a little fan section. (9:02) It was weird. (9:03) I was the most fucking miserable ever.(9:05) I looked super happy and super fulfilled. (9:08) I was traveling all over the place. (9:10) I was making a lot of money.(9:11) Ray and I were having a blast. (9:12) We'd go out to the casino and blow money. (9:15) We'd go out to the bar.(9:16) It didn't matter. (9:20) I'm grateful you said money after that. (9:22) I looked like, yeah, blow a lot of money.(9:24) No drugs. (9:25) There's never been a, there's never been a drug up this nose. (9:28) But I was, I was miserable.(9:30) I would go home and I would just be, I would just be miserable. (9:35) I would just be so miserable. (9:36) So you seriously think people couldn't tell?(9:38) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(9:40) That's really unfortunate.

Kevin Palmieri

(9:42) You look, you look like you were living a life that other people wanted.

Alan Lazaros

(9:47) Energetically you can tell, I think, but that's if you can see, if you can sense the energy. (9:51) I know that's fairly new. (9:53) I didn't start doing that till my thirties, but Emilia helped me understand vibe.(9:57) Yeah, you can see it. (9:59) I mean, contrast is big too. (10:01) So that particular photo, it's pretty obvious I was unhappy, but we were raging that night.(10:09) I mean, I was, I was taking shots that night. (10:11) We had a, it was a barbecue. (10:13) It wasn't even a night.(10:14) Well, it ended up being a hell of a night, but it was day drinking. (10:17) And I wonder, did people actually think I was happy? (10:20) Probably.(10:21) Yeah. (10:21) I was making a boatload of money, a beautiful girlfriend, right? (10:24) So it depends on where you're comparing from.(10:26) And in that moment I was probably happy, but I wasn't fulfilled in life. (10:31) Yes. (10:31) And I think that's the problem is I was happy at that party, but the next day I didn't wake up loving and like fulfilled as a man.

Kevin Palmieri

(10:42) You know, what's the best thing? (10:44) Like, so even that I, I'm thinking to myself, okay, that's a really good example. (10:48) You can be really happy for a day.(10:50) Yeah. (10:51) But that's not, doesn't mean you're fulfilled. (10:53) Agreed.(10:54) Fulfill. (10:54) I always say happiness is a fuel that burns a really hot happiness and pleasure. (10:59) They burn really hot, but they burn really fast.(11:02) Fulfillment is a fuel that doesn't burn nearly as hot, but it lasts for a really, really, I mean, you can, you can do a cross country trip on fulfillment. (11:09) You can not do a cross country trip on happiness because the second you get out of your state and you realize, Oh, I've been driving for five hours and I've only made it 500 miles. (11:18) This is terrible.(11:20) Fulfillment's different.

Alan Lazaros

(11:21) Well, this is a good example. (11:21) So I woke up this morning and if you listen to yesterday's episode, I am trying this new sleep supplement that took me out in the best way, but I woke up kind of groggy. (11:32) I wasn't, I was, I was still fulfilled, but I didn't feel great.(11:35) So state dependent. (11:37) So you are in a really good state and you're fulfilled. (11:42) And I think fulfillment is macro.(11:46) I think pleasure and joy and happiness are micro meaning this moment. (11:52) I think this is, yeah, I think fulfillment is meaningful progress past, present, and future. (11:57) I've been talking to you a lot lately about time perspective and how, how can you possibly, we have, we have someone, I'll keep it anonymous.(12:05) Who's who's much older than us, 30, 30 years older than us. (12:07) And I said, imagine that person at 37, I guarantee you they were an absolute mess. (12:12) And you're like, Oh, that to me, you have to take, I'll be brief about this, but it's 2026.(12:19) It's about to be 2026, 2025 it's about to be 2026. (12:24) 30 years ago, things were so exponentially different. (12:28) How do you know the value of your life now if you're not comparing it to anything?

Kevin Palmieri

(12:32) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(12:32) You kind of don't know value. (12:34) It's like shack in a mansion. (12:38) You really don't have perspective.(12:39) If you grew up in a mansion, it's going to be very hard to live in a shack. (12:44) Whereas where you and I grew up, grew up as a little more modest and I had a nicer house, but whatever. (12:48) The point is, is everything's relative.(12:51) So to bring this to fulfillment, past, present, and future, you've overcome the traumas of your past. (12:59) You are working toward a bigger, better, brighter future. (13:01) And the person you're becoming along the way is someone you're proud of.(13:05) Meaningful progress toward meaningful goals. (13:07) That I think is fulfillment. (13:09) However, that's not happiness.(13:12) Happiness might be, I'm I'm pumped because I'm going to go see avatar three. (13:16) That's happiness, but that's not going to be happiness will be the movie and enjoying it in the moment. (13:23) Fulfillment will be my life in general, my career, my relationship, my progress, who I am as a man.(13:31) And I think that's, we do, we get those mixed up.

Kevin Palmieri

(13:34) I'm going to say this is going to be the most profound or worst thing I ever say. (13:37) I think fulfillment and meaning transcends circumstances. (13:44) That's why when somebody says like, how did you do it?(13:46) It's like, well, I just, it means so much to me. (13:48) You're just willing to do stuff that you're not willing to do for happiness. (13:51) That that's all.(13:52) I think that's the only difference. (13:54) I think that's the biggest difference and it's enduring and it lasts long and it's a fuel that burns very slow, but for a long, long, long period of time.

Alan Lazaros

(14:02) Last thing. (14:02) What's the difference between, okay, someone who sleeps around with random strangers versus someone who's married to the love of their life. (14:09) One of them is meaningful and the other one is probably more pleasurable.(14:13) I think most people would see the person sleeping around and say, that's what I want to do.

Kevin Palmieri

(14:18) I disagree with that for sure. (14:20) And they must have never slept around then because it's terrible. (14:23) But that's what I was going to say is you and I have both done that in the past.(14:26) So we take it easy. (14:30) I've done that. (14:31) Alan is a saint.(14:32) He's never done that before. (14:34) But without that perspective, you might not know. (14:36) Just like, just like money doesn't buy happiness, but everyone wants to find out for themselves.(14:40) I understand why, because you can hear me say it and saying, no, Kev, you, you just got to twist it.

Alan Lazaros

(14:44) Not that you're fulfilled as hell with, you know, financially. (14:47) Right. (14:47) So yeah.(14:48) I wrap this up 10 seconds quick. (14:49) Uh, fulfillment is what you optimize for, but it's a by-product. (14:53) Uh, it's like laughter.(14:54) Kevin has to make a joke for me to laugh. (14:55) He can't force me to laugh. (14:56) You can't force fulfillment.(14:58) It has to be a by-product of meaningful progress toward meaningful goals.

Kevin Palmieri

(15:01) Well said. (15:01) I think meaning and fulfillment transcends circumstances. (15:04) And that's why some of the most successful people in the world have somehow climbed from some of the worst places because it was never about getting to a better place.(15:12) It was about accomplishing the mission that I think that is fulfillment in a nutshell. (15:16) Okay. (15:17) If you're looking to be more fulfilled and surround yourself with more people who are focused on fulfillment, Next Level Nation, our private Facebook group, we'll have the link in the show notes.(15:24) As always, we love you. (15:25) We appreciate you grateful for each and every one of you. (15:27) And if you are as fucking committed as you say you are to getting to the next level, make sure you tune in tomorrow because we will be here every single day to help you get there.

Alan Lazaros

(15:35) Keep leveling up to your true potential. (15:37) Next Level Nation.

Kevin Palmieri

(15:39) Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. (15:43) We love connecting with the Next Level family.

Alan Lazaros

(15:46) We mean it when we say family. (15:48) If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. (15:51) Everything you need to get ahold of us is in the show notes.(15:54) Thank you again.

Kevin Palmieri

(15:55) And we will talk to you tomorrow.