Can You Actually Be Successful Without Self-Belief? Part 2 (2355)

Why do we wait to feel confident before we act, when confidence only shows up after we move?

In this episode, Kevin and Alan continue the conversation from the last episode and go deeper into what actually builds self-belief. They unpack why motivation gets too much credit, why discomfort is unavoidable if you want to grow, and how mindset and accountability shape long-term progress more than talent ever will. The discussion moves beyond theory into real patterns they have seen across years of coaching and thousands of conversations with people trying to level up their lives.

This is not about hype. It is about understanding how belief is built through behavior over time. Listen before your comfort zone convinces you that waiting is productive.

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Show notes:
(2:34) Why belief grows at the edge of capability
(7:17) Growth mindset versus fixed mindset differences
(18:01) Sustaining progress through fundamentals
(20:48) Micro confidence versus global confidence
(23:43) Self-belief as the primary success driver
(29:02) The myth of arriving and imposter syndrome
(32:00) Challenge skills sweet spot for growth
(37:39) Outro

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Transcript

Kevin Palmieri

(0:00) As you know, we didn't go as deep in yesterday's episode as I would have liked, so anytime we do that we usually end up doing a part two. (0:07) I don't know what we're going to talk about, so that's about the extent I can give you.

Alan Lazaros

(0:12) Increase in self-belief leads to an increase in action. (0:15) Increase in action leads to increase in momentum, which leads to more results. (0:19) Kevin has been running that for a long time without the self-belief part, so we're going to talk about that.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:24) Welcome to Next Level University. (0:26) I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri. (0:28) And I'm your co-host, Alan Lazarus.(0:31) At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no-BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros

(0:38) Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health, and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:44) We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits, and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros

(1:00) Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free. (1:07) Welcome to Next Level University.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:12) Next Level Nation today for episode number 2,355. (1:16) Yesterday's episode, Can You Actually Be Successful Without Self-Belief? (1:19) Essentially, it's that, but part two.(1:21) Will that be the name of it when we finish? (1:22) Don't know. (1:23) We name it after, so we'll find out what's happening.

Alan Lazaros

(1:27) Okay, so in the past, you have been trying to advocate for positive delusion. (1:35) I don't know if I would say advocate for it, constructive delusion. (1:38) I think there can be a benefit.(1:40) In the last episode, you gave me three steps. (1:42) You gave me, be naive enough to aim high.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:50) Then the next one was, I know one of them was, every time you have the opportunity to do something you don't want to do, that's in alignment, you have to do it. (2:01) You gotta do it.

Alan Lazaros

(2:02) And then the third one was, was it rinse and repeat? (2:07) I don't think so. (2:08) I know that I mentioned mentors.(2:10) And then you said, and then went into what makes a good mentor.

Kevin Palmieri

(2:14) Yeah, yeah, we talked about that. (2:16) I don't remember what the third one was, which is alarming. (2:23) Because it's a different day.(2:24) You know the hard thing about stuff like this is, it depends on the day you ask me. (2:28) I might give a completely different answer today than I did yesterday.

Alan Lazaros

(2:32) Talk about what it's like to build belief.

Kevin Palmieri

(2:34) Wow. (2:36) It's very hard. (2:38) That's it.(2:39) No, I think the hardest thing about it is, the only way to build belief is to always be on the outer edge of not believing. (2:46) Alan cannot multitask to save his life. (2:48) So everything I'm saying, I will have to re-say because you're not going to hear a single word I'm saying.

Alan Lazaros

(2:52) All right, ready? (2:54) Last episode recap. (2:56) Naivete as a tool for getting started and aiming high.(2:59) Yep. (2:59) Say yes before you feel ready.

Kevin Palmieri

(3:01) Yep.

Alan Lazaros

(3:03) Confidence comes from action. (3:05) Yep. (3:06) Setting a vision with low self-belief.(3:09) That's what we've got.

Kevin Palmieri

(3:10) Pretty sure it was rinse and repeat. (3:12) Okay. (3:12) It was the first two and then rinse and repeat because you have to do it forever.(3:16) Okay. (3:17) And you're always living on the outer edge of, you and I had a discussion earlier about something and I don't believe I can accomplish that goal. (3:27) Really?(3:27) No. (3:29) No. (3:31) No.(3:32) All right. (3:34) Why? (3:36) Because it's so much bigger than the goal.

Alan Lazaros

(3:39) Let's share the goal. (3:42) I don't know, what is it? (3:43) Next Level Podcast Solutions, the largest department at our company.(3:48) 18 departments, 23 people, 126 paying clients now. (3:56) Awesome. (3:56) Love it.(3:57) Great. (4:00) We want to grow your department by 41%.

Kevin Palmieri

(4:02) Yes.

Alan Lazaros

(4:03) Which leads to doubling the revenue every two years.

Kevin Palmieri

(4:07) Yes.

Alan Lazaros

(4:09) That means you have to earn $90,000 this quarter in just your department. (4:14) And that's gross. (4:16) That's not gross, meaning top line before anything's taken out.(4:21) So you don't believe you can do that?

Kevin Palmieri

(4:24) I mean, it's a very big leap from previous quarter. (4:28) I think it's, that's what it is. (4:29) It's from what I know to what I'm trying to get to, the gap is really big.(4:34) It's a very big gap. (4:37) Okay. (4:41) Which is why...(4:44) Real quick. (4:45) Which is why I think most people end up getting Jeffed is they get convinced to set goals that they don't think they can accomplish. (4:52) That's been my thesis for a long time, but it's, I'm telling you, I'm convinced.(4:57) I'm convinced that's why motivational content doesn't actually help because it motivates you to set a goal you in the moment think you can accomplish, but when you settle down back to your home level of confidence, you know you can't. (5:09) And so you don't even, you don't even try. (5:12) You don't even try because it doesn't feel like it will be worth it because you're going to die on the side of the mountain.

Alan Lazaros

(5:17) Okay. (5:18) What about people who say I'd rather try and fail than not, than not try at all? (5:24) Those people don't fail though, is the problem.

Kevin Palmieri

(5:27) I feel like they don't actually fail. (5:28) They make it. (5:29) No, no, they do.(5:30) They fail forward. (5:31) Yeah. (5:31) Along the way, but they don't fail ultimately.(5:35) The same thing is like, um, just like the people that, oh yeah, I, you know, I slept on the floor of this empty apartment and I never knew I'd make it. (5:49) It's like, yeah, you did. (5:50) Yeah, you did.

Alan Lazaros

(5:51) Yeah. (5:51) I do think they're lying about that. (5:53) You, you knew you'd make it or at least you believed more than the average person did.(5:58) It's not a one or a zero. (5:59) It's not like, so, and again, we'll bring it back to the low self-belief thing, but Kevin and I in the past have talked about how an investor asked me, you know, Hey, there's no shortage of capital. (6:12) There's just a shortage of great entrepreneurs.(6:14) And if I introduce you to my private equity guys, you know, if I could give you a million dollars, what could you turn it into in 10 years? (6:22) And I turned down the meeting. (6:23) And in hindsight, I realized that I was cowardly.(6:26) I should have taken the meeting and still said no, but I was afraid that I, I was broke at the time, relatively speaking. (6:33) And I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to say no. (6:37) So I'd rather just say no.(6:39) It's like, don't buy the food. (6:40) If you want a diet type of thing. (6:41) And so I turned down a million dollars while broke quote unquote.(6:44) And in the future, when we quote unquote, make it, are people going to ask me like, how'd you know you'd make it? (6:49) I would say, I never really doubted. (6:53) It wasn't about whether or not we'd make it.(6:55) It's about how long is it going to take and the approach. (6:58) Like we've changed our approach a thousand times. (7:03) I don't question whether or not you can, you and I can be successful podcasters, but I do question our approach all the time.(7:11) And here's the difference between people who have high self-belief and people who have low self-belief growth mindset, fixed mindset. (7:17) When we fail in the beginning, I think the approach was off. (7:22) Kevin thinks it has to do with him.(7:24) Like I'm not good enough versus me. (7:27) It's like, no, no, we're great. (7:29) Not maybe that great, but we're, we're fine.(7:32) Our approach sucked. (7:33) It's not that we can't, it's that our approach is off. (7:36) And so one person is changing the recipe.(7:38) The other person is I'm a bad cook.

Kevin Palmieri

(7:40) But I think a lot of people, a lot of people think that there's a certain type of person that has the right approach because you don't separate the person from the approach. (7:52) Well, I think the certain type of person is somebody with a growth mindset. (7:56) And if you don't have a growth mindset, I think you see somebody who does and it doesn't equate.(8:01) And I think that's where like the break is like easy for you to say that anytime you get an easy for you to say, I think it's just because the person you're speaking different languages almost.

Alan Lazaros

(8:11) Why did the book mindset change that for you? (8:14) Because it broke it down.

Kevin Palmieri

(8:19) Yeah. (8:20) And because it was just, it made it obvious. (8:23) It made it obvious when you, when you check the box to so many of the yeses for fixed mindset, it's like, oh, there's a thing.(8:31) This is the thing. (8:32) Okay. (8:33) You're not the only one.

Alan Lazaros

(8:34) Okay. (8:35) And I'm close. (8:36) But I think I thought it was.(8:37) Question. (8:37) This is not what I intended, but it's must. (8:41) We did an episode, Emil and I on, on, uh, being in an intimate relationship where one person has a growth mindset.(8:47) One person has a fixed mindset. (8:50) One of the things that's been really hard for me is I've noticed some people when I first met her, she's like, ah, I have kind of a fixed mindset. (8:59) No, you don't.(9:00) She did in one area, her memory and now her memories. (9:03) Unbelievable. (9:04) It's awesome.(9:04) So I got her a book called memory rescue and sleep. (9:08) So important. (9:09) But my point is the people who have a growth mindset sometimes think they have a fixed mindset and the people who have a fixed mindset, they think they have a growth mindset.(9:18) What the fuck is that about? (9:20) I'm actually asking like, what is that about? (9:23) Cause no one's going to identify, Hey, I have a fixed mindset.(9:25) You did, but that's what I want to ask you about as someone who doesn't believe in themselves deep down, you were honest about it. (9:35) At least behind the scenes with me, maybe not on the show as much in the beginning, but like behind the scenes with me, you were always pretty honest about not believing in yourself and other people that I'm certain believe in themselves less than you do are still acting like they have this crazy growth mindset.

Kevin Palmieri

(9:53) I, well, I think that the hard part about that is it felt valuable to share the truth. (9:59) It wasn't like, I think one of the reasons I enjoy being vulnerable so much is because I don't know if anybody really can make fun of you for it. (10:11) Like you're going to make fun of me for being more courageous than you go ahead.(10:14) Awesome. (10:14) Great. (10:15) Strong work.(10:15) Like, good luck. (10:16) That doesn't, it's highly illogical. (10:18) And I think that was always a piece of it for me is behind the scenes.(10:24) At least it was valuable to share that because it helped us learn more together. (10:30) I don't know if I knew it at the time.

Alan Lazaros

(10:32) Well, that's why we're interviewing. (10:34) So in hindsight, but it's such a unique thing. (10:37) Did you think you had a growth mindset?(10:40) No, no. (10:40) Have you met someone who does when they definitely don't? (10:43) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(10:43) But we've met a ton of people that say on a scale of zero to 10, how much self-awareness do you have? (10:47) 10. (10:48) It's like, okay, automatically you don't.(10:49) Yeah. (10:50) Automatically you don't. (10:55) And if you say zero, that is a level of self-awareness.

Alan Lazaros

(11:00) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(11:00) So it's okay. (11:03) Okay.

Alan Lazaros

(11:04) Think of someone, you don't have to say their name, who definitely has a fixed mindset subconsciously and unconsciously deep down, but they think that they have a growth mindset. (11:15) Yeah. (11:15) Okay.(11:16) What do you do with that person? (11:23) To get them to work through it. (11:26) These are the tough ones because there's an ego death that needs to happen.

Kevin Palmieri

(11:32) I think. (11:33) Yeah, I would agree. (11:35) First, you have to find something that they actually think is worth it because nobody's going to do the work just to do the work.

Alan Lazaros

(11:43) Nobody's going to do it just to do it. (11:44) So you have to illuminate for them what they're missing out on by not acknowledging this? (11:50) I think you first have to find out what they think they're missing out on.(11:53) And you're thinking of a person, right? (11:55) Like a human. (11:56) Okay.(11:56) Okay. (11:56) So step one is what? (12:00) Identify for them, illuminate for them what they're missing out on.(12:03) I help them illuminate it for themselves is my thought.

Kevin Palmieri

(12:07) Okay. (12:07) How would you do that? (12:09) Just try to sit down and have a real conversation about like, Hey, did life, you think life has turned out the way you thought it would?(12:17) Like, is everything going the way you thought it would go? (12:20) And are you like super excited about it? (12:22) Like, I would just start with that.(12:24) No, they would say no, but you know, life sucks. (12:28) Then you die. (12:32) You said somebody with a fixed mindset.

Alan Lazaros

(12:33) Yeah. (12:34) I think I know who you're talking about. (12:36) Um, for anyone out there listening.(12:42) Okay. (12:42) There's a couple things in the last nine years I've been really impressed with and a couple things, not so much. (12:48) Okay.(12:48) In hindsight with love and vice versa. (12:50) I'm sure one of the things I've been really impressed with is you, the admittance, the, just it like, yeah, I don't believe in myself. (12:59) I think even to do that, you have to have a certain level of self-belief.

Kevin Palmieri

(13:02) I think one, it was always safe. (13:05) And two, it became part of the story eventually is like you had 10 out of 10. (13:10) I had zero out of 10.(13:12) I felt like it was important.

Alan Lazaros

(13:14) I felt like it was important for, why do you think that you were able to admit that more than other people?

Kevin Palmieri

(13:21) Maybe because nobody would have ever guessed it. (13:26) So it like, it was, uh, I as, as selfish and I don't know what the right word is. (13:38) I didn't think anybody would look at me any differently.(13:40) And if they were going to look at me any differently, I assumed it would be in a positive way. (13:44) I didn't think anybody would be like, Oh my goodness, you're terrible. (13:48) Cause you don't believe in yourself.(13:49) I thought it was a value add that I was admitting it. (13:52) Do you still? (13:52) Yeah.(13:53) A hundred percent. (13:54) I think if anything, the more quote unquote successful you get, the more you should say that because it helped. (14:00) I think that's what helps people.

Alan Lazaros

(14:02) Who do you know in the world that does that? (14:06) Cause for me it was hard to admit that I do. (14:09) Well, cause I think in the past I used to think like, Oh yeah, I struggled with self doubt and all that stuff.(14:13) And I, in hindsight, it's like, wow, I really didn't doubt that much. (14:16) But that for you, that's what makes you different for me. (14:18) It's what makes me the same.(14:20) So it makes sense. (14:21) Who else in the world is admitting they didn't believe in themselves? (14:29) I don't know if I have a good, probably, but that's why as one word is believe, right?

Kevin Palmieri

(14:33) Yeah. (14:33) Evan Evans, anyone else that says it or actually means it? (14:42) Both.(14:44) I don't know. (14:45) I don't think there's a lot of people.

Alan Lazaros

(14:48) Why is it really that hard to be like, Hey, I don't believe in myself. (14:52) I think a lot of them do believe in themselves. (14:55) I think a lot of them I'm willing to bet.(14:58) I'm not just meaning influencers. (14:59) I mean, anyone, you know, I think most people that make it very far have very high levels of self belief, but people in your life that didn't make it that far. (15:08) Oh, I'm not just talking about people that are at the top of the game.(15:11) I mean, in your everyday life, in hindsight. (15:15) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(15:16) But so many of the people that say that are like, it's like, no, you believe in yourself way more than you fucking think. (15:21) I don't know what you're comparing to. (15:23) I have people in mind right now that are like, they definitely have more self belief than they think.(15:31) Okay. (15:31) But they think they have low self belief. (15:32) It's like, no, I, I don't think so.(15:35) I think you're delusional. (15:37) Maybe you have less than you want, but I don't think that means you have low self belief. (15:42) I think that means you just don't have as much as you want.

Alan Lazaros

(15:44) They think they have low because everyone else is acting like there's design. (15:48) I guess particularly men, men, their belief is higher than it really is. (15:52) Definitely.(15:52) That's one thing I've noticed in coaching for sure. (15:54) And again, if you want to recognize a pattern, like, would you say it's fair to say men struggle to admit socially that they have less self belief than women? (16:05) Yeah.(16:05) That's what you've noticed too. (16:06) For sure. (16:07) I think women own it more, which is ironic because I actually think they believe in themselves more a lot of the time.

Kevin Palmieri

(16:12) Well, I think they're ahead of the curve. (16:14) And again, this was your point long before I ever even thought of it, but girls tend to blanket statement, but have journals when they're young and yeah, they write about their feelings and they talk about their feelings. (16:27) Yeah.(16:27) A hundred percent. (16:28) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(16:29) Yeah. (16:29) I didn't start journaling until I was 26. (16:31) Like that is a huge same later, later, later.

Kevin Palmieri

(16:35) I don't, I don't know. (16:36) I don't think most people. (16:39) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(16:40) When we were kids, what would you have said if you're, this is brutal. (16:45) Uh, if I had said to my group of guy friends that I was journaling, Oh yeah. (16:49) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(16:49) Oh, you would have been ripped a new asshole. (16:53) Somebody, somebody has to lead on. (16:55) And then the person that leads, I'll never forget when I started hugging my friends before I S I would hug them and say, I love you.(17:02) After I, after I would spend time with them. (17:03) And one of, one of my buddies at the time was like, I was saying all this shit, saying all this shit. (17:09) And then eventually it got to the point where it just was normal.(17:12) Like, this is what we do. (17:13) We love each other. (17:14) This is what we do.(17:15) There's nothing wrong with hugging each other. (17:16) We're brothers. (17:17) Like, what are we doing here?(17:17) You can say, I'd love you to dude. (17:19) What the fuck are we doing here? (17:20) Get over.(17:20) What are we doing here? (17:22) What is this? (17:22) 1970?(17:23) What are you doing here? (17:24) Get out of here with your fixed ass mindset. (17:27) And to make, to, to just clarify, I'm not saying it was right in 1970.(17:31) I'm not saying that, but people had very, people had very fixed mindsets back then for sure. (17:37) Yeah. (17:38) Well, and still do.(17:40) Yes. (17:40) Yes.

Alan Lazaros

(17:41) Okay. (17:42) Um, nine years ago, boom, you get started, you do your three steps, vision board, $2 million net worth. (17:50) Awesome.(17:52) Naive. (17:52) Don't know what it's going to take. (17:53) Do it anyway.(17:54) When you get the opportunity that you want, you take it. (17:58) Uh, you, and then you, what I want to talk about is sustainability. (18:01) So awesome.(18:02) Great start. (18:04) How do you sustain it for nine years when it gets harder and harder and harder? (18:07) And the saying that I said on group coaching yesterday is shadow.(18:10) It's a group 21, by the way, unbelievable. (18:12) Uh, this, what I said yesterday was success makes life harder, not easier, but you handle hard, better. (18:21) And you learn proactively or reactively, usually reactively how to handle hard, better.(18:27) So sustain of the five S's sacrifice, struggle, suffer, success, and then sustain. (18:33) You think sustain is the hardest.

Kevin Palmieri

(18:35) Yes.

Alan Lazaros

(18:35) Which makes sense. (18:36) Given the fact that you're basically using naivete and proactive constructive delusion to set a goal that you don't think you can achieve. (18:47) Um, whereas if you did think you could achieve it, you probably would prepare for an advance or maybe you're already capable of it.(18:53) So which is a whole nother conversation, but the sustain piece, talk to us about how does someone sustain it now that they're on the train?

Kevin Palmieri

(19:00) I think you have to do the unsexy fundamentals the same exact way. (19:07) I think what happens is you get to the point where you think you're beyond doing small things that scare you. (19:14) You're like, well, I shouldn't have to do this anymore.(19:16) I shouldn't have to do this. (19:17) Like me, I shouldn't have to do mobility, right? (19:19) I'm doing mobility.(19:19) It's awesome. (19:20) Great. (19:21) That you have to, you can't, you can't believe your own hype and you have to get to the point where you understand that every day you should do a little something that scares you.(19:30) We have a contractor coming over right now and I don't like being an asshole. (19:34) I don't like being the, the squeaky wheel, but I've been texting them all day. (19:38) Like, come on, what are you, when are you going to be here, like I get shit to do.(19:41) That's outside of my comfort zone. (19:42) I don't like being in the, that guy. (19:44) I don't want to be the customer that he dreads coming to see.(19:48) That's good for me. (19:50) That helps. (19:50) That's my little, that's my little thing for the day.(19:53) So just like if somebody's on the opposite end and they have a ton of self-belief, they have to humble themselves daily. (19:58) Every day, go to the gym, go do something that humbles you.

Alan Lazaros

(20:01) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(20:02) I think on my end, it's the, you got to do something that reinstills some level of belief and pushes you outside of your comfort zone. (20:09) Because the thing is the day to day doesn't really do it as much anymore. (20:13) Like, oh, I'm on a podcast.(20:14) Awesome. (20:14) I've been on enough. (20:15) It's not, it's not the same level as it used to be.(20:19) The things that used to scare me, don't scare me as much as they do. (20:22) Sorry. (20:23) The things that used to scare me, don't scare me now as much as they used to.(20:28) It's hard because I'm, I am super distracted because I'm looking out for a fucking phone call. (20:33) That is a piece of it. (20:35) I used to be scared of every podcast episode.(20:37) Now I'm almost never scared. (20:41) Now that doesn't mean I'm confident now. (20:44) That's no, that means in this one arena, I've just done it so many times.(20:47) I have to find the next arena.

Alan Lazaros

(20:48) But isn't there global confidence that comes through? (20:50) So let's talk about that. (20:51) So you're confident on podcasts for sure at this stage.(20:55) Fair? (20:56) Zero to 10 statistically. (20:58) Uh, probably nine.(21:00) I would say. (21:00) Awesome. (21:01) Okay.(21:02) Uh, but you're not necessarily as confident in the other areas. (21:08) Anything else? (21:10) Okay.(21:11) Literally anything.

Kevin Palmieri

(21:11) I'm not as confident in anything else, probably.

Alan Lazaros

(21:14) But there's, there's micro beliefs and global beliefs. (21:16) Yeah. (21:17) So, so a micro belief is Kevin believes he can do a good job on this episode despite him slurring his words earlier.(21:23) I'm joking. (21:24) Uh, but the global belief quote unquote is I'm a great podcaster. (21:29) So, so the micro is great episode.(21:32) The macro is great podcaster. (21:34) Okay. (21:35) Uh, you're telling me that the global belief doesn't trickle into the other areas.

Kevin Palmieri

(21:43) It trickles, but it's not, I think you still have the, one of the best stories ever. (21:49) One of the things Taryn wanted to do early in our relationship. (21:52) I don't, I don't think we were married yet at this point.(21:54) There's this thing called skip the small talk and you go to this, you go to this place, you have a beer and you just talk about deep shit with strangers. (22:01) And I remember thinking like, I do not want to do this. (22:03) This is, I do not have any desire to do this.(22:06) We need to talk about stuff like that more. (22:07) I think. (22:07) 100%.(22:08) We, we went and I was a fish in water. (22:13) It was great. (22:14) We're having deep conversations.(22:15) I love having deep conversations. (22:16) What about before? (22:18) Before I went or before?(22:19) Were you scared before? (22:20) I didn't want to go. (22:21) I didn't want to go.(22:22) I was terrified. (22:23) I'm like, same, same thing. (22:24) I'm not going to fit in.(22:26) It's people are going to judge me, blah, blah, blah, blah. (22:29) I left with a new belief that I'm really good at talking to strangers.

Alan Lazaros

(22:33) No scared. (22:35) No, no, no, no. (22:36) And then, so we used to say this all the time.(22:39) Some people gets, get the humble pie and give it to themselves in advance. (22:43) Other people get it after. (22:44) So you were scared and crushed it.(22:47) Was she not scared and didn't do a good job? (22:49) She's very accurate in her expectations.

Kevin Palmieri

(22:52) Really? (22:53) Yeah. (22:54) That would be very accurate actually.(22:56) I am not. (22:58) I am not. (22:59) It went way better than I expected.(23:01) And then it's like, Oh, I'm really, I can have conversations with anybody. (23:04) I can talk to anybody, but almost anything. (23:06) Interesting.(23:07) That's a little bit of an over swing. (23:09) It is, it is. (23:10) But that then that's what happens.(23:12) And then you get thrown into another situation. (23:13) I'm telling you, all it is, is it's minor course corrections. (23:17) Then you get thrown into a conversation and you can't hang.(23:20) And it's like, Oh fuck. (23:21) Okay. (23:21) That's probably over at skip the small talk.(23:23) I thought this problem was gone forever. (23:26) It's like, no, it's never really gone forever. (23:29) Yeah.(23:29) It's just that I think you, the highs get higher and then the lows take you down to like a normal, actual factual level. (23:38) But the factual level continues to increase, but there's always ups and downs.

Alan Lazaros

(23:43) So you, and I agree that the number one reason the majority of people will not achieve their, last question, will not achieve their dreams and goals because they do not have or build self-belief. (23:58) Yes, we agree. (23:59) Okay.(23:59) Yes. (23:59) Yes. (24:00) Thousands of interviews, hundreds of interviews, thousands of episodes, Olympic gold medalists, high school students.(24:07) I mean, we've, we've interviewed all different walks of life for sure. (24:11) So we both agree. (24:12) Self-belief is the most important thing for success, longterm achieving goals and dreams.(24:16) Okay. (24:16) Okay. (24:17) For someone who has low self-belief, the number, give me, give me one thing to help them stay in the game long enough to win.(24:31) And give me one thing to watch out for that is going to bite them in the ass if they're not self-aware. (24:38) Oh man.

Kevin Palmieri

(24:40) One thing for them to stay in the game. (24:47) What are most people not willing to do? (24:49) Like ask for help, especially if you don't, if you have low self-belief, you don't want to ask for help.

Alan Lazaros

(24:54) But you told me in the last episode, and I'm not, I'm not disagreeing because I think that's good. (24:58) But you said in the last episode, most of the help you got in hindsight was garbage. (25:03) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(25:04) I didn't ask for it. (25:06) I didn't have the courage to ask for it. (25:07) You got most of the help.(25:08) I got most of my help through you. (25:10) I didn't decide who our mentors were. (25:13) Right?(25:13) Like that wasn't, that was less me than it was you.

Alan Lazaros

(25:15) Okay. (25:15) So what if it wasn't me, what would you have done or what would you do now?

Kevin Palmieri

(25:20) I, I would try to find somebody that I felt safe with and asked for help that I just never felt safe with though.

Alan Lazaros

(25:30) This is my fear. (25:32) You had a fitness coach that you thought was awesome. (25:34) Justin, he, you didn't feel safe with Justin.(25:37) I did because I was already in shape. (25:39) Do you think most people would?

Kevin Palmieri

(25:40) No, but I don't think most people are going to do a bodybuilding show. (25:44) That safe is a problem. (25:45) Safe is love.(25:46) You go to, go to your local planet fitness. (25:48) You find a personal trainer that you feel safe with. (25:50) There you go.(25:51) I'm not going to feel safe with them, but feeling safe is sometimes predicated on someone being easy on you. (25:57) Yes. (25:58) Yes.(25:59) Or they're being as hard on you as you can handle based on where you currently are. (26:04) I, I, it's a bill. (26:05) It's a blanket statement.(26:06) I would start there. (26:07) You'll, you'll know, you'll learn pretty quickly. (26:11) If you have self-awareness, you'll learn like this person's way too fucking hard on me or I don't, they just, they're just chat GPT me.(26:17) Like every time I say something, they say I'm the best. (26:19) Like that's, that's not constructive. (26:22) That's going to be my new verb, chat GPT.

Alan Lazaros

(26:24) Yeah, it is becoming, it is obvious that chat GPT is overly affirming.

Kevin Palmieri

(26:28) Yeah. (26:28) Well, the longer you stay on the platform, the more money they make, I'm guessing. (26:31) I don't know how the whole fucking thing works that, that I think you have to ask for help because if you are able to get help from somebody who believes in themselves more than you believe in yourself, they're probably also going to believe in you more than you believe in yourself.(26:45) Wait, what? (26:47) You believe in yourself more than I believe in myself. (26:51) Yeah, for sure.

Alan Lazaros

(26:52) You believed more in me than I believed in me. (26:55) Yes. (26:56) I do think that that's shifting, but, but not in a bad way.(26:59) You're believing in yourself more and I think I'm believing in, I'm less delusional about what people are capable of. (27:06) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(27:06) Yeah. (27:07) But I think that, why is that useful? (27:10) Because you're, you're going to get set up for opportunities you wouldn't set yourself up for what you do with those and whether or not they're too big.(27:18) I don't know.

Alan Lazaros

(27:19) It depends on the person, but like what I was thinking you'd say is pain. (27:23) Like you, you have to be willing to tolerate like willingness to like endure pain. (27:28) You have to because when I give you opportunities in the past that were ahead over your head, you still like did them.

Kevin Palmieri

(27:33) Yeah. (27:34) But I'm trying to take that uniqueness out of the equation because most people aren't going to get that level of opportunity. (27:40) But that uniqueness, no, but that I think it's this critical component, discomfort, discomfort for me, not pain.(27:47) I went through absolute suffering, suffering.

Alan Lazaros

(27:53) And you really think you can achieve your goals and dreams without that. (27:56) I'm not making it wrong. (27:57) If that's true.

Kevin Palmieri

(27:57) I don't think you can achieve massive ones, but in the beginning I want you to have a, I want it to be a positive experience because if it's not positive, you're not going to come back.

Alan Lazaros

(28:08) But aren't you setting people up for failure? (28:10) If you, I know you want it to be a positive experience, but aren't you supposed to say, Hey, it fucking might not be. (28:17) Yeah, but I don't think it has to be what I did.

Kevin Palmieri

(28:20) I'm not advocating for what I did. (28:22) I don't think my way is the best way. (28:25) Yeah.(28:25) I don't think I say this all the time. (28:26) Like I don't believe most people would have done what I did. (28:28) I don't, because I don't think it's good for most people.(28:31) And I don't think it was good for me. (28:32) Genuinely. (28:33) I don't think I'd have anxiety if I didn't do this.(28:35) I'm serious about that. (28:36) Like, I just don't think I would, but I also don't care. (28:40) I wouldn't change it if I could go back.(28:42) I think finding somebody that is going to like meaningfully push you out of your comfort zone and be there for the accountability is super important. (28:52) What outside of that? (28:54) I don't know.(28:55) Are they going to push you too hard? (28:56) Are they going to push you? (28:56) Not enough.(28:57) You kind of have to get in the arena to figure it out. (28:59) Okay.

Alan Lazaros

(28:59) Not going to know the other one was the pitfall.

Kevin Palmieri

(29:02) What's the thing to watch out for thinking you're done thinking you're like, Oh, now I believe there's an arrival point. (29:08) Yeah. (29:09) Yeah.(29:09) There's the second you think you believe in yourself, you should go do something new because the process is going to start over, except you're going to have more confidence that you're, you can figure it out. (29:19) And it'll, I think the, the cycle is shorter. (29:23) I just think that it's very easy to get in the, I've overcome this.(29:30) I haven't overcome imposter syndrome. (29:32) That's dumb. (29:33) I don't, I will never overcome imposter syndrome.(29:36) If I overcome imposter syndrome, that suggests to me that I stopped doing things that I don't know how to do. (29:41) I don't think I ever, meaning you're a big fish in a small pond, meaning I'm on the outside edge of what I'm capable of in my head.

Alan Lazaros

(29:49) If you've overcome imposter syndrome, you'd be the big fish.

Kevin Palmieri

(29:52) Yeah. (29:52) You're only doing stuff that you know you can do. (29:55) That's I don't, which is the opposite of growth, which is the opposite of growth.(29:58) So I think you have to understand that the pitfall is expecting to get to a place where you actually feel comfortable because I don't think you ever will feel fully comfortable. (30:06) I don't think you should if you want to grow.

Alan Lazaros

(30:10) Okay. (30:11) Uh, I said last question eight times now, but why would someone seek discomfort? (30:18) Okay.(30:18) Okay. (30:19) I said this to one of my clients earlier, very, very successful, multimillionaire, awesome, big, successful company, big team. (30:25) And I said, it's really frustrating for me.(30:27) And I know, you know, this as a CEO, that a lot of people will coast if you let them, that is so annoying for me. (30:35) Like I don't give a fuck about the current level. (30:39) Screw the current level.(30:40) I want to go to the next level. (30:42) The only reason you got to this level is because this level is the old next level. (30:48) So if you stop now, you, you actually go down the mountain.(30:51) It's like a freaking boulder that rolls down the Hill. (30:54) All of a sudden it crushes you. (30:55) You have to keep climbing.(30:57) You have to crawl through the mud to get to the higher ground. (30:59) You have to, I'm wired that way. (31:02) My fear is dragging people up a mountain.(31:05) They don't want to climb for someone who can tend to coast. (31:09) If he doesn't have someone prodding him constantly with love. (31:12) What do you say to people?

Kevin Palmieri

(31:18) You're going to regret it. (31:21) I discomfort. (31:22) What do we say?(31:23) The path of least resistance leads to the path of most regret that you don't want. (31:28) I don't think we actually want life to be like easy. (31:32) We just want to feel like we're in control.(31:35) And those are two very different things. (31:37) So that have to get outside of where you feel in control. (31:40) I, I, yeah, but there's a difference between like, when I say feeling control, I don't mean you feel like you're totally in control, but you feel like you can figure it out.(31:49) You feel competent enough. (31:51) You have enough capacity to say, I can figure this out. (31:53) I can figure this out.(31:54) This isn't the end of the world that I don't, I think there's just a more, you're more in the center.

Alan Lazaros

(31:59) Yeah. (32:00) If you can do five pushups, go for seven. (32:02) If you can do seven, go for 10.(32:04) If you can do 10, go for 15. (32:06) If you can do two, don't go for 50. (32:08) Yes.(32:08) And certainly don't do it in front of an audience. (32:10) Right? (32:11) No.(32:11) Or for money. (32:12) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(32:14) That's a good metaphor. (32:15) Don't do that. (32:16) Cool.(32:16) Anything you want to wrap up with the, the, I think the thing is always like plus or minus a level or two. (32:24) If you're at a level two, three or four, aim for three or four. (32:27) If you're at a level three, four or five.

Alan Lazaros

(32:30) And how does that work with you? (32:31) Uh, at the beginning saying naive enough to aim high.

Kevin Palmieri

(32:34) I think I said, I think at the time I probably had a level two or three. (32:39) I said level six. (32:40) I think you did five and seven, but yeah, same principle.(32:43) I would say two to three. (32:44) I might have shot too big in the beginning. (32:46) Maybe I was more delusional because I was riding high on, you know, whatever.(32:50) I was listening to a podcast episodes that made me feel good about me. (32:53) So I might've shot more delusionally than I should have. (32:55) I don't know.(32:56) I don't know, but I think it's always that it's always you, you to stay humble, should do things that are two or three steps ahead of you. (33:05) Right. (33:05) Oh yeah.(33:05) Always. (33:06) Oh, same, same. (33:07) But on the opposite end.(33:09) Yeah. (33:09) On the opposite end. (33:11) Cool.(33:11) You dig? (33:12) Yeah, man. (33:13) All right.(33:14) I appreciate the, I appreciate the, the chat. (33:16) These are always hard because it's like, I don't, you're such a unique piece of it that I don't know. (33:22) Yeah.(33:23) If I was left to my own devices, I don't know what I would have done. (33:26) Nor do I think it would have worked. (33:28) So I don't, that's why it's hard.(33:30) It's like a big piece of this is I didn't do this by myself, so I can't claim to have the answers on how to do this by myself. (33:35) But you do know what part I played and so you can, but it's a bigger, I know, but it's a bigger part than, I know, you know, it's a big part, but it's a bigger part. (33:44) The thing is I've had accountability every day for the last nine years.(33:47) Yeah. (33:47) Do you think it's a bigger part than you're currently aware of? (33:51) I don't know because I've tried to be very, maybe in the beginning I wasn't, I've tried to be very honest about it.(33:57) Yeah. (33:58) Since the very beginning. (33:58) I just, yeah, I just like, it's my job not to fuck this up.(34:02) That's been my, my mindset since the very beginning. (34:05) And a lot of people are like, well, you know, you got to understand you play a big, I, I know I'm not saying it. (34:10) I'm not saying that to discredit myself.(34:12) Yeah. (34:12) I'm saying that to, to stay humble.

Alan Lazaros

(34:15) Well, at the end of the day, there's no one who doesn't get inspired, motivated, educated, and held accountable by someone. (34:25) Yeah. (34:26) Like Emilia is that for me for sure in some ways.(34:29) And I'm that for her and others. (34:30) So like no one does it fully alone. (34:32) So at the end of the day, get a great mentor and make sure this coach or mentor is like honest with you and understands the difference between you and them.(34:45) That I will say I didn't fully understand. (34:48) That might be the biggest responsibility for that. (34:50) That might be the biggest because I didn't know the difference between you and I.(34:53) So I think that I coached you sub optimally for a time. (34:58) And I don't want to say I believe in you more than I should have. (35:00) Obviously I believed in you more than I think anyone else.(35:03) And that helped, but it also got you in over your head farther than what was constructive probably at times.

Kevin Palmieri

(35:10) Right? (35:10) Well, that's why I'd almost rather if you have level 10 self-belief, I'd rather you jump in the deep end and learn how to swim. (35:16) If you have level two self out of belief, I'd rather you like start with swimmies in the very shallow end, but that's, and then if you're afraid to get made fun of, you're not going to do it.(35:25) That's the problem.

Alan Lazaros

(35:26) Social circle sucks. (35:27) You're not going to fucking put on the swimmies. (35:29) Yeah.(35:30) Yeah. (35:30) But you don't think you're going to make fun of you for putting on swimmies. (35:33) That's the truth.(35:34) Yes. (35:34) Assuming you're actually honest and like, yeah, if you're vulnerable and honest, why would I make fun of you? (35:42) Like if somebody, if somebody comes to you and says like, I'm the fucking, I'm not, I'm not, I'm the fucking, I'm not scared of anything.(35:48) And then you put on swimmies. (35:49) I'm going to be like, yeah, what's going on here?

Kevin Palmieri

(35:52) Well, that's why self-awareness is so important. (35:53) All right, cool. (35:54) We're going to, we're going to bounce it out of here because we could talk about this all day, every day.(35:57) If you are out there and you're looking for accountability, you're looking to ask for help without actually asking for help. (36:03) And you really want to get to the next level in fitness. (36:05) We have the next level fitness accountability group.(36:07) It's cranking. (36:08) I'm in there every day. (36:09) Alan's in there every day.(36:09) There's a bunch of people in there every day. (36:11) So yeah, if you want to be more accountable to a greater thing than just you and you want to have some skin in the game, this is a great way to do it. (36:19) And by skin in the game, I don't mean money.(36:20) So you don't have to pay or anything. (36:21) It's just, you know, people are there and you know, people are getting after it.

Alan Lazaros

(36:24) So yeah, the one thing that AI will never be able to provide is the human connection, community and belonging that comes from being around other people with similar core values towards similar goals. (36:36) If you want a real coach in the real world that has a pulse, um, reach out to me. (36:41) I will keep you in the challenge skills, sweet spot.(36:44) And I will not lie to anyone. (36:46) I'm definitely hardcore, but I also will make sure that you're in the challenge skills, sweet spot, which is you're a little in over your head, but you're not going to drown.

Kevin Palmieri

(36:54) Yeah. (36:55) AI is just going to tell you you're great all the time.

Alan Lazaros

(36:57) You're the best, which is the opposite of coaching. (37:00) That's the opposite of a great coach. (37:02) Oh, you already look great.(37:04) Oh, you're good. (37:05) Ah, keep doing what you're doing. (37:06) That is not fucking useful.(37:09) What you need to do is identify blind spots and contemplate and brainstorm new alternatives and say, Hey, this probably isn't going to work. (37:16) And Hey, you're kind of behind. (37:18) And you know, this positive, overly positively affirming stuff and validation is, is a part of the equation.(37:26) It's not the whole equation.

Kevin Palmieri

(37:28) The other thing I would add to quickly is read books that helped me a ton. (37:31) I've read, I've read a lot of books and it helped me understand like, Oh, I know more about the world than I used to. (37:35) So book club every single Saturday as well.(37:37) That's a thing too. (37:38) We'll connect that. (37:38) All right.(37:39) As always, we love you. (37:40) We appreciate you grateful for each and every one of you. (37:42) And if you are as committed as you say you are to getting to the next level, make sure you tune in tomorrow because we will be here every single day to help you get there.(37:48) Keep leveling up to reach your full potential.

Alan Lazaros

(37:50) Next level nation.

Kevin Palmieri

(37:52) Thanks for joining us for another episode of next level university. (37:56) We love connecting with next level family.

Alan Lazaros

(37:59) We mean it. (37:59) When we say family, if you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. (38:04) Everything you need to get ahold of us is in the show notes.(38:07) Thank you again. (38:08) And we will talk to you tomorrow.