Success Is A Paradox (2371)

In this episode of Next Level University, Kevin and Alan unpack a truth many people miss about success. It often works like a paradox. The same principles that drive real growth can sound contradictory at first. You must fail to succeed, work hard before you can work smart, and care about results without tying your identity to them.

Drawing from years of coaching, thousands of podcast episodes, and their own experiences building businesses and reaching major goals, Kevin and Alan explain why progress rarely feels the way people expect. The people who grow the most are the ones who learn to hold two opposing truths at the same time. If success has ever felt confusing, this episode may shift how you think about growth.

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For more information, check out our website and socials using the links below. 👇

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Show notes:
(3:03) Why failure is required for real growth
(6:35) The truth about “don’t sweat the small stuff”
(9:25) Why achieving goals often feels underwhelming
(12:24) Why success can still feel like failure
(17:23) Why you must zoom out to see progress
(21:05) Competing to win vs competing to become
(26:30) Life doesn’t get easier you handle hard better
(31:00) The power of “and” instead of “but”
(34:32) Outro

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Transcript

Kevin Palmieri

(0:00) You have heard us say this word so many times and talk about it so many times, but we were talking the other day and it just feels like it's time to do an episode on paradoxes and how success is a paradox, because usually it's the opposite of what you think, but it's actually not the opposite in reality. (0:16) We're going to talk about it. (0:17) Let's talk about paradoxes.

Alan Lazaros

(0:19) You have to fail to be successful. (0:21) If you're always trying to be successful, you're going to fail. (0:24) Paradox.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:26) Let's talk about it. (0:27) Welcome to Next Level University. (0:30) I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri.(0:31) And I'm your co-host, Alan Lazarus. (0:35) At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros

(0:41) Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health, and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:48) We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits, and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros

(1:03) Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:10) Welcome to Next Level University. (1:16) Next Level Nation, today for episode number 2,371, success is a paradox. (1:22) Yes, you can't care what everybody thinks, but you also have to care what everybody thinks about what you think if you want to be successful.(1:30) That's one. (1:31) You can't worry about everything, but you do have to worry about everything to make sure that you're worrying about the right things. (1:37) That's another paradox.(1:38) Yeah, you can't attach the outcome, but you also have to attach the outcome.

Alan Lazaros

(1:43) This was your idea. (1:44) Why did you want to do this episode? (1:45) This is going to be awesome, I think.(1:47) We'll see now. (1:48) That's a paradox. (1:49) We'll see.(1:49) I'm joking. (1:50) All right. (1:50) So, why did I want to do this episode?(1:53) Because the more that I've learned about success, and the more that I've become more successful, the less I care about it. (2:06) It's so freaking weird. (2:08) I still care about it, of course, but it's similar to way back in the day, 2000 and whatever, Attack of the Clones came out, Star Wars, Natalie Portman, My Dream Girl.(2:26) I was just such a loser. (2:29) I was so lonely, and I didn't know how I'd ever get my own version of that. (2:34) Now, I live that every day.(2:37) It's almost like when you become the man or woman or person that attracts it, you still care about it, of course, but it's not what you thought it would be, but it is everything you thought it would be and more. (2:53) One of the reasons why I want to do this episode is because I think success content, personal development, self-improvement, personal growth is really confusing if you don't understand paradox. (3:03) Okay, the key to success is massive failure.(3:06) That is true, but I have to unpack it, otherwise it just sounds stupid. (3:10) It's like, I thought the point of success was not to fail. (3:13) No, it's the exact opposite.(3:15) You have to fail forward, go back to the drawing board, fail forward, go back to the drawing board, fail forward, go back to the drawing board, and keep adjusting your approach until you reach the outcome. (3:25) You can't attach the outcome with other people, but you have to attach the outcome of the goal. (3:29) You shouldn't tie your self-worth to the measurement, but you do need to measure.(3:33) It's all. (3:34) I think we should try our best to discuss this in a way that actually brings some clarity, because the truth is in the middle. (3:44) The truth is the harmony between work smart, not hard.(3:47) Bullshit! (3:48) Bullshit! (3:49) Brother, you don't work smart until after you've worked hard for years.(3:54) Well, it's a necessity. (3:56) I want to see if you can come up with an example, because I don't have one off my head, but think of something that we do now that took us five years to decide to do, that was obvious in hindsight. (4:13) Those happen all the time.

Kevin Palmieri

(4:15) What's a good example of that? (4:16) We're going back to batch recording episodes. (4:19) Yeah.(4:20) That is the dumbest thing we ever did, in some regards. (4:24) Dumbest thing we ever stopped doing. (4:25) Stopped doing, but also not.(4:27) Because we had to at the time.

Alan Lazaros

(4:29) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(4:29) Because we had to. (4:30) We used to try to do all of our episodes in one day, because we had a studio and we only recorded from the studio. (4:40) So we tried to do as many episodes as possible.(4:42) Then when we went totally virtual, it was like, we don't have to record in the same day. (4:47) We have clients and coaching calls and other podcasts, so we can just spread them out. (4:52) It took us four years, probably three, four years to get back to it.

Alan Lazaros

(4:56) We're still not fully back. (4:58) Well, yeah, no, no, but we're on our way. (5:01) There's a paradox right there.(5:03) We made a change in our minds that we're going to go back to batch recording, and we're on the way to that, but we're not doing it yet.

Kevin Palmieri

(5:10) Let me give the definition. (5:12) Paradox is a statement, proposition, or situation that seems self-contradictory. (5:16) That's a tough word.(5:17) Absurd or contrary to logic, yet may be true or present a deeper hidden truth.

Alan Lazaros

(5:22) This is the yin and yang. (5:24) This is the up and down. (5:25) This is the dark and light.(5:26) This is the whole thing. (5:27) This is the harmony, the integration of the two. (5:30) Every strength comes with a weakness.(5:32) Every weakness comes with a strength. (5:34) I have a good one.

Kevin Palmieri

(5:37) I'm not saying yours aren't, but my mom used to always say to me, don't sweat the small stuff. (5:44) Kev, don't sweat the small stuff. (5:46) Don't sweat the small stuff.(5:47) Terrible advice and great advice. (5:49) And great. (5:50) We have clients that are in the plumbing and heating space, and we were going somewhere recently, and the person started the truck 15 minutes before we left.(5:59) And I was like, you can shut it off. (5:59) We're not leaving for 15 minutes. (6:01) They're like, no, don't worry about it, man.(6:02) And I was like, okay, so that's one truck times 50 trucks, or whatever it is. (6:08) Don't sweat the small stuff is a big thing when you multiply it.

Alan Lazaros

(6:12) That's costing them hundreds of dollars a month, if not thousands, and the environment.

Kevin Palmieri

(6:17) And the environment. (6:18) And what else is considered, oh, don't worry about the light. (6:22) Just leave the light on.(6:23) We'll be back in a couple hours. (6:24) Well, you do that every day. (6:25) That adds up.(6:26) So, don't sweat the small stuff. (6:29) Yeah, I guess you don't have to worry about sweating the small stuff until it gets to a certain size, but if you're doing it multiple times, it's already at that size. (6:35) Don't sweat the small stuff and sweat the small stuff.

Alan Lazaros

(6:38) Okay, ready? (6:40) I failed a test in college, and it was a signals analysis. (6:48) Brutal.(6:49) Absolutely brutal. (6:51) Failed it. (6:53) There was someone who got 100, took the bell curve up.(6:56) Fuck. (6:58) Failed it. (6:58) How dare they?(6:59) And I remember back then, I was thinking, okay, this is just one test. (7:03) In the grand scheme of my life, I'm going to be fine. (7:05) This isn't going to destroy my career.(7:07) Okay, so you're fine, and it's all good. (7:09) That's what don't sweat the small stuff is supposed to be. (7:12) But it's not supposed to be, don't worry about studying today.(7:15) Ah, today's tomorrow. (7:17) Oh, tomorrow's today. (7:18) And then eventually you don't study at all, and then you fail again.(7:21) The truth is, you have to sweat the small stuff that matters, and not sweat the small stuff that doesn't.

Kevin Palmieri

(7:29) I'm going to do some research to get some common paradoxes that we can... (7:34) Because now that we're talking about it, the second I started this... (7:37) You could challenge me not to, but the second we started this episode, I was like, oh no.(7:40) Sometimes when I get put on the spot for certain episodes about certain topics, it's like I can't think of what we were talking about when we started. (7:47) Success principles.

Alan Lazaros

(7:49) Here, let's ask questions. (7:51) We unlock the consciousness. (7:53) So, 6,941 coaching sessions.(7:57) Awesome. (7:57) What have we noticed? (8:00) What have you noticed?(8:01) You coach. (8:02) You podcast. (8:04) You've done group coaching 21 times.(8:06) 21 quarters in a row. (8:07) That's more than 5 years. (8:09) What have you noticed?(8:10) Paradoxes. (8:13) I don't know. (8:14) From that perspective?(8:15) You say you're the most extraordinary regular dude. (8:18) You're in a paradox. (8:19) Right now.(8:21) I am a walking paradox. (8:25) I think it's an integration of two seemingly opposing ideas. (8:29) That's why I always say, if you can't hold duality, you're in so much trouble.

Kevin Palmieri

(8:33) I think the best one is the only way to get over a fear is to be afraid of it and do it. (8:40) That seems completely contrary. (8:42) It's like, well, I'm afraid of the thing.(8:43) I don't want to do the thing. (8:45) It's like, well, you have to do the thing in order to not be afraid of the thing. (8:47) That's a good one.(8:49) That's probably...

Alan Lazaros

(8:50) Yeah, you have to face your fears in order to not be afraid of it. (8:53) Just like you have to achieve what you want to not... (8:57) I don't want to say not value it, because I still value it.(8:59) It's just not...

Kevin Palmieri

(9:01) Yeah. (9:01) You know why I think that is? (9:03) We had a very big win today.(9:05) Haven't even brought it up, right? (9:08) Kind of behind the scenes. (9:10) Because it doesn't go from not happening to happening.(9:13) It goes from not happening to like, oh, that could happen to, oh, it's going to happen on this date. (9:18) Oh, we're getting close to this date. (9:21) It doesn't go from zero to a hundred.

Alan Lazaros

(9:24) It goes from zero... (9:25) So we can share it.

Kevin Palmieri

(9:25) I think it's good to share it. (9:27) Well, I'm not...

Alan Lazaros

(9:27) Whatever.

Kevin Palmieri

(9:27) Kevin and I are both personally debt-free. (9:30) Yeah, yeah, yeah. (9:31) But I'm...(9:32) Am I more excited than you thought or less? (9:37) I know for you, it doesn't affect you.

Alan Lazaros

(9:38) Probably less than I thought. (9:39) Because I've been... (9:41) We've been talking about it for...(9:42) But I also think it's because now you're the type of man that actually earns things like this. (9:47) It's so fascinating. (9:49) I...(9:50) And this is the paradox. (9:51) I value that. (9:52) I was debt-free when I was 22, 23.(9:57) 2014. (9:57) How old was I in 2014? (9:59) I paid off all my college debt in 2014.(10:01) $84,000 in a single year. (10:03) Gone. (10:03) And I remember being like, I'm debt-free.(10:04) I went and celebrated when my friends made fun of me. (10:06) He's like, don't fucking brag. (10:08) It's like, dude, what?(10:10) Chill. (10:10) Right? (10:11) Now I know he was in an amount of debt.(10:12) But the point is, that's 12 years ago. (10:18) So I was 20...

Kevin Palmieri

(10:19) You were 25?

Alan Lazaros

(10:19) 24. (10:22) Yeah, 24. (10:24) 24 and a half.(10:25) Almost 25. (10:26) Okay. (10:26) So early to mid-20s.(10:28) Debt-free. (10:30) Had no debt for basically my entire adult life until recently. (10:36) Last few years.(10:38) And now debt-free again. (10:39) Awesome. (10:40) And again, I do want to make this very clear.(10:42) Side tangent. (10:43) I think unhealthy debt is anything above 10%. (10:46) Healthy debt is anything below 10%.(10:48) Because you do use OPM, other people's money, to make money. (10:52) That's what investing is about. (10:53) I don't mean you use other people's money.(10:55) That's not... (10:55) I came out wrong. (10:56) The point is you use money to make money.(10:58) Leverage. (10:58) Yeah. (10:59) If I can give you $100 and you can make $120 and give me $10, you're going to do it and you get $10 back.(11:04) Right? (11:04) That's how banking works. (11:06) My point is, being debt-free is not necessarily optimal depending on your situation, particularly business owners.(11:13) However, it was a big goal for us to be personally debt-free and we still use leverage in business. (11:17) All right.

Kevin Palmieri

(11:19) That's another one with money. (11:20) The more quote-unquote money I have, the less I want to go on. (11:30) I was literally like, oh my goodness, I could get YouTube TV back now.(11:35) I'm going to have my own salary. (11:36) It's going to be awesome. (11:37) And I was like, ah, fuck that.(11:38) No. (11:38) It's like $70 a month. (11:40) No, no, no, no, no.(11:41) No. (11:42) No, no, no. (11:43) We got to get rid of more stuff.(11:44) Agreed. (11:45) What are we doing?

Alan Lazaros

(11:46) That's why you have money. (11:47) That's the paradox. (11:48) But that's the paradox, right?(11:49) That's the paradox. (11:50) What is it? (11:52) There's a guy named Ray Dalio, wrote a book called Principles.(11:56) And he says, if you're not worried about money, you need to start worrying about money immediately. (12:01) But if you're worried about money, yeah, don't worry about it. (12:03) You're worried.

Kevin Palmieri

(12:05) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(12:05) What he means is your circle of concern. (12:07) See how it lands? (12:08) That actually lands.(12:09) It depends what your worry is though, I think. (12:11) Because if you're not worried about money, you're kind of arrogant. (12:13) You're being a little arrogant.(12:14) If you're worried about it, you most likely are buttoned up and tracking. (12:17) So you're probably good. (12:18) You're on a good trajectory.(12:20) That's another one that's, I think, I had a nine minute audio from a client. (12:24) I don't mean that to sound bad. (12:27) He's like, dude, sorry, this is a long one.(12:28) I was late because of that. (12:29) I was listening to it. (12:30) I told you.(12:31) And he said, isn't it interesting how I'm the most successful I've ever been? (12:35) And I've never felt like more of a failure. (12:36) I said, that's exactly it.(12:38) That's perfect. (12:39) He's like, dude, I'm looking over the water in South America. (12:43) And this was at one point a dream.(12:44) And I feel like a fucking loser. (12:46) I was like, perfect. (12:48) That means you're winning.(12:50) Now, let me explain that and unpack it. (12:52) The reason is because he is still climbing. (12:57) He's at base camp one of his dreams.(12:59) He literally had a vision board with three sections, and it showed his old physique, like a physique that was like level one, level two, level three. (13:08) And then it showed an apartment, level one, level two, level three, and a car, level one, level two, level three. (13:14) And he achieved the apartment overlooking the ocean.(13:17) And he's like, ah, got it. (13:19) I said, okay, you gotta switch that one out. (13:21) You want to know why you feel like a failure?(13:24) Because your benchmark just got bigger. (13:27) Your bills just got bigger. (13:29) You now work harder.(13:31) He's like, I make way more money now. (13:34) He's got a dream partner. (13:37) Awesome.(13:38) They just became official. (13:39) Cool. (13:40) Unbelievable.(13:41) Big fan. (13:42) Awesome. (13:42) I've been coaching this guy for years.(13:43) It's all his dreams are coming true, man. (13:45) All of his dreams are coming true. (13:46) Not all of them, but a lot of them.(13:47) A lot of them. (13:48) Congratulations. (13:49) I know you're listening.(13:49) He listens every day. (13:50) What's my point? (13:51) He doesn't feel like a fucking winner.(13:54) He's still climbing. (13:56) He's still tired. (13:57) He's still, now his dreams are bigger.(14:00) This is what I'm trying to help my clients with. (14:04) When you're trying to increase your trajectory upward, you feel like you're struggling. (14:11) When you're climbing, you're supposed to feel like you're failing.(14:16) Then he looked back a year ago. (14:18) He's like, I'm doing 10 times more and I'm 10 times more capable and I'm making three times as much, but I don't feel like I'm winning. (14:28) The reason why is because feelings are a byproduct of your state and your state is a byproduct of grind.(14:33) You're still in the challenge to kill sweet spot. (14:36) You're still biting off more than you can chew. (14:39) This is a paradox for everybody.(14:41) If you, and I had to be careful of this because you and I just hit a big goal. (14:46) We've been working on that for a long time. (14:49) I'm proud of us.(14:49) Great. (14:50) Alan, don't you fucking dare get cocky. (14:54) Alan, don't you dare step off the gas.(14:57) Alan, don't you dare miss that thing you have to get done. (15:01) For me, that's, I don't want to feel successful. (15:06) I feel successful in the macro when I zoom out, when I zoom out at my life and I look at the trajectory, I feel successful.(15:11) Same with this client. (15:13) That's what the nine minute audio was. (15:14) I'm zooming out.(15:14) I'm looking over the water. (15:15) I am successful, but I just, on the day to day, I don't feel that way. (15:18) That's the paradox.(15:20) And by the way, if you start celebrating and feeling like success on the day to day, you're going to start losing. (15:26) That is a paradox. (15:27) That is a real thing.

Kevin Palmieri

(15:29) I had a moment last night where it was like, how, how appropriate is it that I'm, I just worked 17 hours and that's the day we get out of debt. (15:38) Like 17 hours, like that, that was the reminder. (15:41) Like, this is the hardest day you've had in a minute.(15:43) Yesterday was just a long, it was brutal. (15:46) It was one of the hardest days I've had in a minute, just in terms of like pure output.

Alan Lazaros

(15:51) I want you to try to, let's discord about this. (15:57) You and I achieving a really big goal podcast about success and personal development. (16:04) It's not about the goal.(16:05) It's about who you have to become to achieve it. (16:07) Great. (16:08) It's also about the goal, but also not about the goal.(16:10) Great. (16:10) Paradox. (16:11) Okay.(16:13) I, this goal that we hit has nothing to do with what we did today. (16:18) It has to do with what we did the last year and a half, two years, three years, five years. (16:21) Everything's on a trajectory.(16:22) And I think I, I audioed my client back and I said, I didn't audio my texts. (16:28) I messaged in my head. (16:29) I audited them, but I was messaging.(16:31) And I said something along the lines of, I think I unconsciously do this all the time. (16:37) I zoom out every morning and every night. (16:40) And I look at my whole life and I see 37 and I see the start and I see the trajectory and all the volatility in between.(16:50) And I don't know if that's because I have a good memory or what, but like I rewatched the movie of my life all the time. (16:56) I purposely watched a 1995 movie called heavyweights because I wanted to go back to when I was eight and I wanted to reprocess it from this awareness. (17:07) And some things came up where it's like, Oh, I didn't realize that last time I saw this film.(17:13) Like, holy shit. (17:13) That was interesting. (17:16) Um, so my question for you Kev is, and I said this to him, are you not doing that every day?(17:23) Because if you don't zoom out, you can't see that it's supposed to blow.

Kevin Palmieri

(17:29) Like the day to day is supposed to feel hard. (17:32) Yeah. (17:32) But I, I understand why people, it's like, when does it not like, whenever, when do you celebrate?(17:42) I had a moment with Amelia where we cheered. (17:44) Yeah. (17:44) But like, but I don't know.(17:46) What if somebody else needs more celebration? (17:48) Not a detriment. (17:49) They don't.(17:50) How do you know? (17:50) They don't. (17:52) It sounds arrogant, huh?(17:54) Yeah, for sure. (17:55) Of course it does. (17:57) Like, what if they value that more?(18:00) Then they probably aren't that successful. (18:02) But let's say they are. (18:04) Dude, I'm a good, I'm a good case study for this.(18:07) I want to celebrate, not a lot. (18:08) I want to get dinner with Taryn, but that's, that's it.

Alan Lazaros

(18:13) I was on with a client earlier and he said this, he said, I'm going to a wedding. (18:17) And as a matter of fact, I think he's at a wedding now, if you're listening to this on the day it launches. (18:21) And he said, everyone else there, they're so excited about this and that's awesome.(18:27) But I can tell that they want to escape their work. (18:30) Whereas I'm counting the seconds I can go back to work. (18:32) I said, that means you're winning.(18:35) That when you design a life, you don't want to escape. (18:38) That's what celebration is. (18:39) Celebration is, I want to escape this life to go celebrate.(18:43) I don't think it has to be though. (18:44) It doesn't have to be, but a lot of times it is. (18:47) And so I think that's why I came off arrogant is because if your goal is to celebrate, one of them is I want to hit the goal so I can celebrate and that's pleasure town.(18:58) And yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(19:00) I want to do the hard thing so I can stop doing the hard thing.

Alan Lazaros

(19:03) That yes. (19:04) That's dangerous. (19:04) Way better put.(19:05) Yeah. (19:05) That's dangerous. (19:06) If you're doing the hard thing to stop doing the hard thing, you're playing a finite game within an infinite game.(19:11) And if the infinite game, as a matter of fact, I'll pull this up because we really should mention this, but I want you to share about the celebration.

Kevin Palmieri

(19:21) Um, I don't, I just think, I don't know. (19:25) I don't think there's any problem with celebrating as long as it, as long as to your point, it's not, if I get results, then I can stop doing it. (19:32) That's my bodybuilding journey in a nutshell.(19:35) Like I wanted to do the bodybuilding show so I could be done with it. (19:41) You know? (19:42) Okay.

Alan Lazaros

(19:43) Can you explain why that's? (19:45) Remember when I told you I lost the I wasn't doing it for a trophy. (19:49) I was doing it for life.(19:50) I don't, I don't, I'm not running a mile to be a runner. (19:52) I'm running a mile to be on Lazarus.

Kevin Palmieri

(19:55) I know. (19:55) I don't, I could not, I could not grasp that concept at the time, but you can now though, to a degree, if I don't know, man, if I was to do a bodybuilding show, I would do it to win. (20:07) Not what it would make of me in 10 years.(20:09) No, no, no. (20:10) Hold on.

Alan Lazaros

(20:12) It would be more of the second one than it used to be.

Kevin Palmieri

(20:15) Yeah, but it would still be the majority of the first one. (20:18) For sure.

Alan Lazaros

(20:18) Really? (20:20) I do stuff. (20:21) That means you're playing not to lose.(20:23) No, I'm playing to win that thing. (20:26) Are you afraid to not win it? (20:27) Are you afraid to not win it?(20:31) Am I afraid?

Kevin Palmieri

(20:32) No, I'm not afraid to not win it. (20:33) I would prefer to win it though. (20:36) Very elegant of you.(20:38) It's not, I'm not going to have, I'm not going to have crippling fear at night of like, Oh my God, I can't lose this. (20:43) Yeah, yeah, fair.

Alan Lazaros

(20:45) I don't. (20:46) Okay. (20:46) Levels.(20:47) Level one is, and this is the paradox too. (20:50) Level one is I'm doing it to win the show. (20:52) No, no, no.(20:53) Level one is I'm doing it for significance and if I lose, I'm going to be embarrassed. (20:59) Level two is I'm doing it to win the show and if I become a better person along the way, that's awesome. (21:05) Gravy.(21:07) Level three is I'm doing it primarily for the man or woman it will force me to become necessity and I hope I win. (21:21) The level after that is you become the type of person who can win with very little effort because it's already who you are. (21:30) That, that's like when I ran a a sub eight minute mile the other day, I was like, Oh my God, this, I was like running really fast.(21:41) Like these milers are crazy, right? (21:43) And I'm not a runner, so I don't, it's not like I run that often, but I also, I want to be the type of man who has the cardiovascular health to run like the fucking wind on a whim. (21:57) That's why I did a marathon on a whim.(21:58) I'm not doing a marathon for significance. (22:02) I'm, I, I did it to make weight too. (22:04) That was that, but I want to be the type of man who can run a 5k just because, okay, well why?(22:15) Because of what it does. (22:17) We don't think about this much, but if you unpack it, my resting heart rate last night was probably like 42 or something like that. (22:25) Let me look.(22:27) Last night was a little 47. (22:29) Okay. (22:29) Last night was bad, but like, do you know how much easier my life is?(22:34) Okay. (22:35) I ran a seven 56 mile time two nights ago. (22:40) Okay.(22:42) After that, my body's going to be like, Oh, walking is a joke. (22:45) And being on this podcast is a joke. (22:46) And you know what I mean?(22:49) When you make life harder, everything is easier. (22:52) Everything else is easier. (22:53) The point, the perp, I don't train for a marathon.(22:56) I don't train for a bodybuilding show. (22:57) I train for life. (22:59) It's like Navy seals.(23:00) You're not going to, everything's going to be easy after that.

Kevin Palmieri

(23:04) Yeah. (23:04) But it requires so much awareness to understand that.

Alan Lazaros

(23:07) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(23:07) Well, that's what, and like bring awareness. (23:09) Yeah. (23:09) Yeah.(23:10) Yeah. (23:10) So the other part too, is like, dude, the bodybuilding show may be a worse person. (23:16) I was not a, I was not a bad man, but like I was fucking, I was depressed and I was impatient in the short term.

Alan Lazaros

(23:24) Yes. (23:25) But when you are impatient and depressed and hangry, now you have to learn the emotional regulation skills to become a better man.

Kevin Palmieri

(23:32) I didn't do it at that time. (23:33) I'll tell you that. (23:33) Oh, okay.(23:34) Really? (23:34) Yeah. (23:34) No, I was like, get this.(23:36) This has to, that was dude, honestly, that was some of like the hardest times in my entire life. (23:41) I went through two moves. (23:45) It was brutal.(23:46) Oh my God. (23:47) It was brutal. (23:47) Could you have been this man?(23:49) If you didn't do that? (23:49) I think about that often.

Alan Lazaros

(23:51) I don't know. (23:51) Probably not. (23:52) No, by definition.(23:52) No. (23:53) Can you talk about that? (23:54) I know you don't want to brag about it, but I think it's important.(23:57) I would be the same man if I didn't do bodybuilding, if I didn't do fitness competitions. (24:02) For sure. (24:02) It is the, that is the hardest thing I've ever done in my life.(24:05) There you go. (24:05) Okay.

Kevin Palmieri

(24:05) So now, oh, 17 hour day. (24:08) Oh no. (24:09) It's not going to take you down.(24:11) Well, I mean, look, the hardest times I I've joked about this. (24:15) I would drive, I would get up at like four o'clock in the morning. (24:20) I would have a protein shake.(24:21) I would drive six hours to a job site on the way there. (24:24) I would eat my chicken and rice colds from Tupperware. (24:28) I would work eight hours.(24:31) And then depending on the day, I would either go do cardio, then take my pre-workout and lift. (24:37) Or the next day I would get up before anybody else in the hotel, go do my cardio, come back, cook breakfast, then go back to the gym, then work and eat. (24:46) It was terrible, man.(24:47) Sicko. (24:48) It was terrible.

Alan Lazaros

(24:50) So yeah, now it's, it's not nearly as hard, obviously. (24:53) Dude, I don't think you could have survived those early days of us travel podcasting, if it wasn't for all that. (24:58) I noticed, man, because I used to work with other people.(25:01) And when I worked with you, you had that, you were able to go for such a long period of time. (25:07) I think people want to, people want to get to a place where that goes away. (25:11) I think that's the misunderstanding.(25:13) And maybe that's the paradox. (25:15) That's why I always say there's no Candyland. (25:17) And if you want Candyland, you'll never find it.

Kevin Palmieri

(25:19) Because you've got to know it's a skill. (25:21) Like maybe that's the piece that I think a lot of people are missing is like, I'm not saying you have to work 17 hours a day. (25:27) I'm not saying, I'm not saying Alan has to run a six minute mile every day, but you, if you want to want to be able to, you want to have that skill you can pull out.(25:36) Yep. (25:36) That, I think that's.

Alan Lazaros

(25:37) You want to have that tool in your tool belt.

Kevin Palmieri

(25:39) I think that's a good way.

Alan Lazaros

(25:40) Whenever you need it. (25:40) And if you do, this is what the mentality is. (25:45) If you make practice harder than game seven, yeah.(25:49) Game seven will be easy. (25:51) And so you got to make practice harder than the game. (25:57) Like you right now could give a speech that's way better than anything you could prepare.(26:03) You could not prepare at all. (26:05) I want, I want nine year ago, Kevin and this Kevin, they're both going to give a speech on success and personal development in front of a thousand people. (26:13) You could not prepare at all, show up and crush that dude.(26:19) Why? (26:20) Because the last nine years has been preparing you. (26:23) And it's that quote that there's a viral video on Instagram, not Instagram, YouTube.(26:30) It's probably on Instagram too. (26:31) It's, you know, life doesn't get easier. (26:32) You handle hard, better.(26:34) And I do believe that so deeply. (26:36) I, I don't want life to be easier. (26:39) I want to handle hard, better because life is never going to get easier ever.(26:45) When I have kids, is it going to be easier? (26:46) No. (26:47) When I'm married, is it going to be easier?(26:49) No. (26:49) When I have more bills, is it going to get easier? (26:52) No.(26:52) More team members? (26:53) No. (26:53) More clients?(26:54) No. (26:56) When I get older, is it going to be easier to lift? (26:58) No.(26:59) Everything's going to get harder forever. (27:04) The, the life that you want, the dream life that you want. (27:07) I said this earlier on a podcast, I said, you're either not successful because of one of two reasons.(27:12) Either number one, you're around people who don't want to see you win and you're too much of a coward to sail away. (27:16) Or number two, you're arrogant and entitled and you believe you should be successful and you're not putting in the real work.

Kevin Palmieri

(27:24) I know those are hardcore, very hardcore. (27:26) To answer before you get out of here, to answer your question. (27:28) No, I do not.(27:29) The times I reflect, you'll know. (27:32) If you follow me on Instagram, here's how you know I'm reflecting. (27:35) I share old raps that I did.(27:37) I have no idea why, but like I get into mode. (27:40) I start listening to music. (27:42) I start looking at old content.(27:44) I start listening to old raps. (27:45) I start posting old raps. (27:46) Like that is my, I don't know why.(27:48) I will have a moment of reflection. (27:50) I don't know if it'll be tonight, but like when I look at all my credit cards and it's all at zero, it's like, that's the first time in, I don't even know how long.

Alan Lazaros

(27:59) I'll have a moment of reflection for sure. (28:02) Well, we talked about this. (28:02) You, you bought your first car when you were 18 and you've had some debt ever since.(28:09) This is the first time you've ever been debt free.

Kevin Palmieri

(28:11) I think so. (28:12) It's magnificent, man. (28:13) Good for you.(28:14) It's a big deal. (28:14) I have to imagine, well, thanks to you, obviously. (28:16) I have to imagine that I'm the first car I got at a 21% interest rate because I had no cosigner.(28:23) I was like, fuck it. (28:23) That sounds good. (28:24) That's a good number.

Alan Lazaros

(28:24) How'd they sell you on that shit?

Kevin Palmieri

(28:26) They didn't have to. (28:27) It was a Mustang and I wanted it. (28:29) They couldn't sell, they couldn't sell me on not getting it.

Alan Lazaros

(28:31) It was a business owner's dream. (28:34) Oh yeah. (28:35) When we used to rent a car, do you want the insurance?(28:37) Yes, I do. (28:38) I think we should get it. (28:39) Yeah.(28:40) Just in case. (28:42) One time we didn't, hammered the windshield. (28:45) Oh my god.

Kevin Palmieri

(28:46) Coconut right on the windshield. (28:48) Yeah. (28:48) No, not even, well, yeah.(28:49) And then there was another time where we rented a car and then like a month later they emailed me and they're like, hey, you fucked this thing up pretty bad. (28:55) We're going to have to have you pay for it. (28:56) It's like- Nope.(28:57) Wait, wait. (28:58) The pictures you took are from like a week later. (29:00) What do you mean?(29:01) No, it's in a completely different spot. (29:03) It looks like somebody hammered a yellow pole. (29:05) It wasn't us.(29:06) What are we doing here? (29:08) And then I just stopped responding to them and they stopped emailing me. (29:12) So I think we're good.(29:13) Take it to court for $247.

Alan Lazaros

(29:15) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(29:15) Good luck. (29:16) Good luck. (29:17) Quick announcement.(29:18) We are not going to be talking about Next Level Live 2026 on here anymore. (29:23) Here's the reason. (29:24) If we think you're a good fit, we will reach out to you.(29:27) That's kind of our thought process. (29:28) We want this to be tight knit. (29:30) We want it to be humble people.(29:31) We want it to be people that really, really, really aspire to get to the next level. (29:35) And we know you very well at this point. (29:38) We have a bunch of WhatsApp communities.(29:39) We have Facebook groups. (29:41) We know most of the audience. (29:44) So we will reach out to you because we want to make sure it's the most aligned for the people that are attending as much as the wonderful people that will be putting on the event.

Alan Lazaros

(29:52) Yeah, no dragging people up a mountain. (29:54) They don't want to climb. (29:55) We will reach out to you.(29:56) Emilia got her ticket today. (29:58) Emilia bought a ticket because she believes in this. (30:01) What did you say?(30:02) A couple people. (30:02) A couple people. (30:03) Yeah, exactly.(30:04) Shout out to Emilia, Lizzie. (30:05) Awesome. (30:06) Get your ticket.(30:07) The link will be in the show notes. (30:09) Brother, before we go, what's the last thing about Paradox? (30:13) Yeah, to give the listeners.

Kevin Palmieri

(30:16) This was a tough one to explain. (30:17) It is. (30:18) It's very hard.(30:18) That's why I wanted to have examples, but I think we did. (30:20) I think we did OK. (30:23) It doesn't have to make sense to work.(30:26) It probably doesn't make sense, honestly, like almost. (30:31) I think the best example is you can you really work smart if you haven't worked hard because you don't have the necessity to work smart and you don't know what smart is. (30:40) Smart is compared to hard, like pushing a boulder up a hill seems smart because it's better than pushing a fucking square.(30:48) Like, oh yeah, he's working smarter. (30:50) He made it into a circle and now he's pushing it up the hill. (30:53) Now you have machinery that can do that, right?(30:55) So like, I think it's all contextual. (30:57) So yeah, whatever that means.

Alan Lazaros

(31:00) The power of the and instead of the but. (31:04) Work smart and work hard. (31:06) It's duality.(31:07) Holding two seemingly opposing ideas in your consciousness simultaneously. (31:11) I want to work smart and hard. (31:15) I want to be confident and humble.(31:18) I want to be. (31:19) I want to have built my career around my strengths and mitigate my weaknesses. (31:24) There's a lot of and you have to hold and you have to you.(31:28) I want to be healthy, wealthy and in love. (31:33) You have to be able to hold and I want to fail forward and be successful. (31:39) Just if nothing else comes of this episode, I hope that you rethink.(31:44) I want to face my fears and still admit that I'm afraid of them. (31:50) You know, I want to overcome my fear and know that I'll never fully overcome it. (31:55) I want to be in love and get more in love.(31:58) It really is. (32:00) I understand. (32:01) I'm starting to understand why a lot of this stuff is so confusing because nobody taught us paradox.(32:10) I was never taught paradox. (32:13) And most things are a paradox. (32:18) Like fail forward.(32:20) Like a lot of things are paradoxical. (32:22) And if you can't hold both, like I want to be educated and hardworking. (32:28) Some people are one or the other.(32:30) Imagine someone who's hardworking but not educated. (32:33) Now imagine someone who's educated but not hardworking. (32:36) If you want to be successful, you have to have the and.(32:40) You have to.

Kevin Palmieri

(32:40) Did you work out this morning or are you working out tonight? (32:43) Tonight. (32:43) I have a song for you.(32:44) It's called Duality by Slipknot. (32:47) You're welcome. (32:47) Nice.

Alan Lazaros

(32:48) It's a jam.

Kevin Palmieri

(32:49) I'm in.

Alan Lazaros

(32:49) It is a jam. (32:50) Slipknot. (32:51) Someone, I know we gotta go.(32:53) Someone who listens to us, is a client of mine, said this. (32:58) Not me. (32:59) He said this.(32:59) He said, I like the podcast and he gets frustrated with it sometimes. (33:04) Everybody I'm assuming does at times because Kevin and I are constantly at each other's throats sometimes. (33:11) He said it's like blue color meets white color.(33:14) And you get to hear both. (33:17) You get to hear the and.

Kevin Palmieri

(33:19) I'm white collars. (33:20) That's what it's supposed to be.

Alan Lazaros

(33:22) But it's true. (33:24) You've taught me things that I wouldn't have figured out because you think very differently than I do.

Kevin Palmieri

(33:31) Well, I think that's a paradox too. (33:37) I don't know. (33:38) Some of the most important lessons I've learned, I would never, there's no way I ever would have learned them if I didn't work with you because I wasn't open to the ideas because you and I in any parallel universe wouldn't have gotten along this for this amount of time.(33:53) It's like, it's weird.

Alan Lazaros

(33:55) Yeah. (33:55) We get the cheat code. (33:56) We have the best of both worlds.(33:57) We get, we do. (33:58) That was going to be the name of my book. (34:00) Remember way back?(34:01) No, but. (34:02) The cover is me. (34:03) Oh yeah.(34:04) Fitness model. (34:04) The other side is me in a suit. (34:06) Yeah.(34:06) It's a great cover. (34:07) Maybe I'll pull that up at some point. (34:08) I wonder if I still have it in G drive.(34:10) You should still do that. (34:12) But like afterwards.

Kevin Palmieri

(34:13) Yeah. (34:13) But like after you write your business books. (34:15) Yeah.(34:15) You know, let's do that first. (34:16) Yeah. (34:17) Sounds like my first line of books can be on fulfillment.(34:19) You got to get a podcast one. (34:21) We got some good stuff. (34:22) Remember we did that whole framework.(34:23) I have it somewhere. (34:24) It's just a matter of my goodness.

Alan Lazaros

(34:26) All right.

Kevin Palmieri

(34:26) We're going to go because we do that in our forties. (34:28) Speaking of podcasts, we are going to record two more episodes right now. (34:31) Yeah.(34:31) Let's do it. (34:31) You dig? (34:32) All right.(34:32) As always, we love you. (34:33) We appreciate you grateful for each and every one of you. (34:35) And if you are as committed as you say you are to getting to the next level, make sure you tune in tomorrow because we will be here every single day to help you get there.

Alan Lazaros

(34:41) Keep leveling up to reach your full potential.

Kevin Palmieri

(34:45) Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. (34:50) We love connecting with the Next Level family.

Alan Lazaros

(34:53) We mean it when we say family. (34:55) If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. (34:58) Everything you need to get a hold of us is in the show notes.(35:02) Thank you again.

Kevin Palmieri

(35:02) And we will talk to you tomorrow.