Does Clarity Come Before Or After Belief? (2381)

What if the reason you still feel stuck is not a lack of potential, but a lack of committed direction?

In this episode, Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros unpack the connection between belief, clarity, and long-term growth. Too many people wait to feel certain before they move, but certainty is rarely the starting point. Through years of coaching, real client results, and thousands of episodes, they have seen that clarity is often built by making better decisions, staying in motion, and learning who you are through action.

This episode speaks to anyone questioning their path, wrestling with purpose, or trying to separate a temporary interest from a real calling. It is a grounded conversation about identity, commitment, and what it actually takes to build a meaningful life.

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For more information, check out our website and socials using the links below. 👇

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Kevin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-palmieri-5b7736160/
Alan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanlazarosllc/

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Show notes:
(3:08) Book club sparked the real question
(5:35) You cannot succeed without choosing
(10:50) Job, career, and calling are different
(14:10) Real calling shows in daily behavior
(20:27) Most people are unclear on mastery
(23:12) Why does school miss career clarity
(26:16) Truth, standards, and being a good ma
(29:12) Outro

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Transcript

Kevin Palmieri

(0:00) Alan and I had a discussion, and my firm belief now more than ever is one of the best ways to get clarity is to have belief. (0:08) But if you don't have belief in what you are capable of, obviously it's going to be really hard to get clarity. (0:13) I think having a conversation about that is probably worth it.(0:17) I just don't know what answers we will leave with them. (0:20) Clarity is the unsung hero of all external success. (0:25) Welcome to Next Level University.(0:28) I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri. (0:29) And I'm your co-host, Alan Lazarus. (0:33) At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven, but no-BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros

(0:39) Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health, and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:45) We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits, and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros

(1:01) Self-improvement, in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free. (1:08) Welcome to Next Level University.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:14) Next Level Nation today for episode number 2,381, Does Clarity Come Before or After Belief? (1:21) We've talked about my delusions of how I was going to be a successful baseball player. (1:26) My life was just going to work out.(1:29) Delusions of grandeur. (1:30) Delusions of grandeur. (1:32) Did I believe that it was possible?(1:34) Yeah, probably to a detriment. (1:38) Okay. (1:39) Okay.(1:40) What must you have in order to believe it's possible? (1:45) That. (1:46) That's the starting point.(1:50) I think it's two things. (1:52) Okay. (1:54) Two things.(1:57) You believe the strategy that you have is sound. (2:02) That's one. (2:03) Or you believe you are resourceful enough to find the strategy.(2:07) Yeah. (2:08) Simple, right? (2:10) Very strong.(2:10) Hey, poke holes in that. (2:12) So far, so good. (2:14) That's it.(2:15) That's the end.

Alan Lazaros

(2:16) Yeah, I think it's very good. (2:18) The only thing I'd say is it leads to the question of how do you know whether or not you're believing in something that's actually possible? (2:30) And in a way, it's you never really know.(2:33) Only time will tell the truth. (2:34) That's what I used to always say. (2:36) Time always tells the truth.(2:37) Like, how do you know if you have the right strategy?

Kevin Palmieri

(2:44) You believe you do. (2:46) Until you realize you don't and then you adjust. (2:48) But you start.(2:50) So you get.

Alan Lazaros

(2:51) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(2:52) This is the confidence kind of in a nutshell, right? (2:54) If you don't believe it, you won't start it. (2:56) But I don't know.(2:58) I feel like. (2:59) Well, give us the reason you wanted to do this episode and then we'll dive in. (3:02) Usually we start with a story.(3:04) That is the reason we're doing the episode. (3:05) I royally Jeff that today.

Alan Lazaros

(3:08) So we're reading Peak Performance in Book Club. (3:13) The next level book club every Saturday. (3:15) 12 30 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. (3:17) Link will be in the show notes to register. (3:18) It's totally free. (3:20) I promise you, you will leave book club smarter than you came in.(3:23) And we're going to shake the snow globe every time. (3:26) It's a pretty cool think tank at this point. (3:28) All right.(3:29) So in book club on Saturday, there was probably 10 11 12 people there. (3:37) In and out. (3:40) And we were reading Chapter 3 of Peak Performance.(3:43) And it talks a lot about deep practice, deliberate practice. (3:47) And if you ever heard of the 10,000 hour rule, it's basically based on that sort of premise. (3:53) There's a study that was done with violinists, that whole thing.(3:58) And what they found in the study is that it's not just people who have experience that creates expertise. (4:04) It's people who practice very intentionally, very deliberately, very deeply. (4:10) And it's the way that they practice.(4:12) So it's not practice makes perfect. (4:14) It's perfect. (4:14) Practice makes perfect.(4:15) And there's five bullet points of what constitutes deliberate practice based on this study. (4:19) Okay, so I put the five bullet points and I start book club and I say, okay, let's set the stage here. (4:25) The first thing we got to figure out is what do you actually want to be great at?(4:29) What do you want to master? (4:30) Because if you don't know that you can't put these into practice. (4:33) You certainly won't put them into practice long enough to be great.(4:36) So Brandon was in there for you, Brandon, it was, it was football. (4:40) Okay. (4:40) You wanted to play college football, maybe be in the NFL, but most likely just college.(4:44) He was a smaller guy. (4:46) And then, okay, for you, Bonnie, it's dancing. (4:49) Been dancing for 33 years.(4:50) Okay. (4:50) For you, it's like, okay. (4:52) So I opened the question.(4:53) I said, who here knows exactly what they want to be world-class at? (4:59) I said, let me rephrase that. (5:00) Who here knows exactly what they want to be top 1% at?(5:04) Because top 1% is not that hard. (5:07) Give me a sec. (5:08) All right.(5:09) Top 1% is one out of a hundred. (5:12) There's 8 billion people on earth. (5:14) It's not that hard to be top 1% in something.(5:17) You're not going to be top 1% in everything. (5:19) That's impossible. (5:20) Actually impossible.(5:21) Okay. (5:22) Being top 1% in something is not that hard. (5:26) Especially if you dedicate your life to it.(5:28) But first you have to have clarity of what you want to be. (5:31) And here's the thing that I want to bring to the listeners. (5:35) This has always pissed me off.(5:37) Bothered me, frustrated me, whatever. (5:39) Made me sad. (5:39) You name it.(5:40) I prefer frustration over sadness. (5:42) So that's what I'm usually using. (5:47) Don't build your career.(5:48) How are you supposed to be super successful? (5:51) If you don't know what you want to be super successful at. (5:55) Okay.(5:55) Serena Williams, tennis. (5:57) Michael Phelps, swimming. (5:59) You can do this with anyone who's super successful.(6:03) Leonardo DiCaprio, acting. (6:04) You don't have to like, love, or dislike any of these people. (6:07) I don't care.(6:08) The concept is the same. (6:11) You have to master a craft in order to be the best at something. (6:17) And this is the thing that I want to connect for everybody.(6:19) If you want a successful career, you have to get really good at something that people value. (6:26) You have to. (6:27) That's not my opinion.(6:29) That's not a fucking option. (6:30) Like the kids I went to college with, some of them, I remember this one person I coached. (6:35) He was an Android coder.(6:38) He was on the higher end. (6:40) We'll say top 5% of Android coders. (6:43) He made 250 grand a year with minimal work.(6:46) I remember thinking, this dude is not that hardworking. (6:50) He does well, I guess. (6:52) But, I mean, my goodness.(6:55) And it's this fascinating thing where it's like, this dude just happened to get really good at something that is really needed. (7:03) Do you think he did it on purpose? (7:07) In hindsight, no.(7:10) Maybe a little. (7:11) Right? (7:12) But when I chose my career, I chose computer engineering because I knew it would be needed.(7:16) I wasn't going to go into farming. (7:19) Not that farming is not needed, but it's not nearly as needed. (7:22) Okay.

Kevin Palmieri

(7:23) I remember there was an episode we did back in the day where Alan said something. (7:30) One of the quotes Alan's mom gave him- You can be a CEO or a farmer.

Alan Lazaros

(7:33) Yeah. (7:34) I'm going to love you either way. (7:35) But if you go for CEO, you can't just wake up one day and be a farmer.(7:38) Or you can. (7:39) Anyways, that's the quote.

Kevin Palmieri

(7:40) Somebody reached out and said, my cousin's a farmer. (7:42) How dare you talk shit about farmers? (7:44) We're not talking shit about farmers.(7:45) That was just a- They said it was their aunt.

Alan Lazaros

(7:47) Oh, their aunt.

Kevin Palmieri

(7:48) You know what?

Alan Lazaros

(7:49) Shout out to your aunt. (7:50) Shut up. (7:51) Shout out to your aunt.(7:53) Yeah, it's a metaphor. (7:53) It's a goddamn metaphor. (7:55) No, but one of the things that I really want to drive home here.(8:00) Who is more needed in the current economy? (8:02) A computer engineer or a farmer? (8:05) Computer engineer.(8:06) Right. (8:07) Now, I'm not saying anything against farmers. (8:09) I'm just stating a statistical fact based on the current economy.(8:13) Just like- AI, robotics, computer engineering, mechanical engineering. (8:16) These things are very critical. (8:17) They're very needed.(8:18) Nursing, very needed. (8:20) There's certain things that aren't needed. (8:21) I don't care how passionate you are about it.

Kevin Palmieri

(8:23) Okay, continue. (8:24) I was just going to say, just like, what do you think? (8:26) Would you rather have something online or a fucking newspaper?(8:29) That's what I'm saying. (8:30) You know, newspapers are- If you work at a newspaper- Because those are things instead of people. (8:34) That's true.(8:35) Well, if people work at the newspaper. (8:37) Yeah, agreed. (8:38) Okay.(8:42) Okay. (8:43) How did you- I know it was through the car accident, I believe. (8:49) Okay.(8:50) What was the first inclination for you that you wanted to go from computer engineering to this?

Alan Lazaros

(8:57) Well, sorry. (8:59) First of all, no, I was- Tell me about you. (9:04) You know about me.(9:07) Computer engineer, MBA, CEO.

Kevin Palmieri

(9:10) Yeah, but I learned something. (9:11) You said when you were younger, you had plans when you had allergies that I had never heard of before. (9:16) So there's things I'm learning.(9:17) I'm still learning things about you. (9:18) Yeah, fair.

Alan Lazaros

(9:19) I had explored doctor, lawyer, engineer, all that stuff. (9:26) Okay, that's a good point. (9:28) You got to explore, like pharmacist.(9:30) You got to think. (9:32) When I was a kid, I would think about what everyone does. (9:34) I'm always asking that question.(9:36) Other people don't care that much. (9:37) It's like, I need to know what you do. (9:38) Why does that matter?

Kevin Palmieri

(9:39) Because that's a big part of who you are. (9:41) I've adopted that. (9:42) I met somebody golfing.(9:43) I said, what do you do in the world? (9:44) That's what Alan used to say all the time. (9:45) What do you do in the world?(9:46) What do you do in the world? (9:47) Isn't that such an important question? (9:49) That's perfect information.(9:51) I like it because I think you can learn so much about somebody, especially because nobody just says what they do. (9:57) They always give you something after. (9:59) And it's usually like, okay, I can tell you're trying to sell me the fact that you like this.(10:03) I can tell. (10:04) You know, the hours are good. (10:05) It's like, okay, you fucking hate your job.(10:07) Fine. (10:07) Totally fine. (10:08) I understand.(10:09) People are like, I met somebody and he said, you know, I don't really want to be doing this forever, but I think it's a really good start. (10:15) It's like, fuck yeah. (10:15) Awesome.(10:16) I love that for you. (10:17) You're already thinking of the future. (10:18) Nice.

Alan Lazaros

(10:19) Okay. (10:19) So, so you asked me the question of why did I go from computer engineer to this? (10:25) I didn't.(10:26) Right. (10:27) I went from an outside sales engineer, technically on my way to a chief officer.

Kevin Palmieri

(10:34) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(10:34) But what was your old career path?

Kevin Palmieri

(10:36) Your identity at that time was still within the silo of what you had learned in college to a degree.

Alan Lazaros

(10:45) Yeah. (10:46) I would say I still would have resonated with an engineer. (10:48) Yeah, definitely.

Kevin Palmieri

(10:49) Okay.

Alan Lazaros

(10:50) But for me, computer engineer was just a stepping stone toward a greater. (10:56) And this is the thing that I want to share with everybody too. (10:59) Some people have a job.(11:00) Some people have a career. (11:01) Some people have a calling. (11:02) I don't know if that lands.(11:04) I would love to hear your take on it. (11:05) Never. (11:05) Never once.

Kevin Palmieri

(11:06) Nope.

Alan Lazaros

(11:06) Okay. (11:08) The truth is, now that I know it doesn't land, this is going to be useless. (11:12) That's fortune cookie shit.(11:14) Brother, it's practical as fuck. (11:16) All right. (11:17) Here's the deal.(11:17) Cart kid and a bus boy for a golf course, that's a job. (11:21) That ain't a career. (11:23) Okay.(11:23) I didn't like golfing. (11:25) I didn't like people at the golf course. (11:27) I didn't, you know, I'm not a fan of the whole thing.(11:29) Not a fan. (11:29) Okay. (11:30) Didn't have a good experience.(11:32) That was just a job. (11:33) A job is when you're just there to make money. (11:35) A career is different.(11:39) So when I was working as an intern at iRobot as a global product manager, that was part of my career. (11:46) You see the difference? (11:47) You take it way more seriously, of course.(11:50) It's like you build your high school sweetheart relationship versus like a fling versus this is my wife. (11:58) The investment level, the meaning is different. (12:02) You asked me one time, what's the difference between a movie and a film?(12:05) A film is something that blood, sweat and tears and heart and soul was put into. (12:10) A movie is like, you ever see, what's that stupid fucking movie where they just are driving around and shit like the whole time? (12:19) It's like Mad Max or whatever.

Kevin Palmieri

(12:21) That's a film if there ever was one.

Alan Lazaros

(12:23) Oh, come on. (12:24) Yeah, that's that. (12:24) Come on.(12:25) No, no, not to me.

Kevin Palmieri

(12:27) It's not a meaningful film. (12:29) I would say the difference between a movie and a film is the asshole trying to sell it to you. (12:33) That's what I would say.

Alan Lazaros

(12:37) To me, that's just an entertaining ride. (12:41) Mad Max or whatever. (12:43) Fury Road.(12:44) I don't care for movies like that. (12:46) For me, that's not it for me. (12:47) A deeply meaningful film would be like Good Will Hunting.(12:51) Anyways, it doesn't matter. (12:53) The point is job, career, calling. (12:55) I didn't go from computer engineer to this.(12:58) I went from computer engineer, building a career toward CEO, eventually, chief officer, whatever, toward my dreams and goals to calling. (13:10) I found my calling at 26. (13:12) Let's have that conversation.(13:13) This podcast is adapting and changing as Kevin and I do. (13:17) I want to talk to you about this. (13:20) This is relevant to clarity.(13:22) When someone says they're in their calling, debate about that. (13:27) I think most people are lying. (13:31) Okay, okay, okay.(13:32) Do you think I'm lying? (13:33) No. (13:34) Okay, okay.(13:35) Why? (13:35) Why do you think other people are lying and I'm not? (13:37) I know I'm not, but I think there's something here for everybody.(13:39) Because I see you behind the scenes.

Kevin Palmieri

(13:41) I have no idea what that means. (13:43) I appreciate it. (13:44) I've seen you do the same thing every day for the last 2,380 episodes.(13:51) It's like, I know. (13:53) Yeah, I just know you behind the scenes. (13:56) So I know.

Alan Lazaros

(13:58) So how do you know the other people? (14:00) You didn't say anything. (14:02) You just said, I know.(14:03) I'm asking for indicators. (14:05) How do you know someone weight trains? (14:07) You see them doing dumbbell rows?(14:08) Tell me the stuff.

Kevin Palmieri

(14:10) You show up every single day. (14:12) You're obsessed with helping people to a fucking detriment of yourself at times. (14:19) That.(14:20) You are so invested in it that you will do it to the detriment of yourself by choice. (14:28) That's how I know.

Alan Lazaros

(14:30) Okay, give me an anonymous example of someone who says they're in their calling, who you know is not. (14:37) Anonymous. (14:38) But I want you thinking of a real person.(14:40) This is where the goods are. (14:42) Podcasts are trying to add value, but you're not really allowed to. (14:45) One of the things that pisses me off about podcasting is you can't talk negatively about anybody.(14:49) But the problem is you can't get any truth if you don't call a spade a spade. (14:54) So I'm not trying to be mean. (14:55) We're going to keep this anonymous.(14:57) But I want you thinking of a real, a real person. (14:59) And I want you to tell me what you really think.

Kevin Palmieri

(15:07) I don't know.

Alan Lazaros

(15:10) I feel like someone who thinks they're in their calling, who isn't. (15:13) And you know, they're not.

Kevin Palmieri

(15:17) Honestly, I don't know.

Alan Lazaros

(15:19) It's hilarious.

Kevin Palmieri

(15:20) I don't know that many people personally that say that.

Alan Lazaros

(15:23) This is more like in the online world. (15:24) But this is one of those like, hey, who here has a growth mindset? (15:27) And everybody's hand goes up.(15:29) No one's going to acknowledge they don't have a growth mindset. (15:32) To a degree. (15:33) But like, I don't, dude, number one, I don't hang out with that many people.(15:37) Yeah, fair.

Kevin Palmieri

(15:37) I don't know from the past. (15:40) I didn't necessarily, I didn't really hang out with people that would say they had a calling. (15:45) Okay, one.(15:46) Okay, mission, purpose, calling. (15:47) One, one, one, one. (15:49) I have one in mind.(15:50) You got one, nice. (15:51) Yes. (15:52) What are you trying to do?(15:54) I'm going to look like an asshole when I say it for sure. (15:57) Well, that's what we're going to risk. (15:58) Are you okay with that?(15:59) Yeah, of course. (16:00) This person said their calling was to be a father. (16:04) Okay.(16:04) I strongly disagree. (16:09) Okay, okay. (16:10) How do you know that's not their calling?(16:12) Because if it truly was their calling, they would have done more for their children than they did. (16:17) It wasn't about, they just said that. (16:19) That was like a cop-out not to improve in life.(16:23) That wasn't. (16:25) Okay, then show me. (16:27) Show me this is your calling.(16:29) If this is your calling.

Alan Lazaros

(16:31) What would you have needed to see? (16:34) More. (16:36) Investment.

Kevin Palmieri

(16:37) More investment, ambition maybe. (16:39) Skin in the game. (16:40) More proof.(16:43) Then show them. (16:46) Show them. (16:46) I think it was, I think it's a cop-out.(16:49) I think it was a cop-out. (16:50) I'm not saying that in every case. (16:51) Yeah, of course.(16:52) Okay. (16:52) I've met people for sure who, when they say like, my calling is to be a great parent, it's like, that is abundantly clear. (16:58) Like amazing.(16:58) That is amazing.

Alan Lazaros

(17:00) That's a good contrast right there. (17:02) I don't think that was the case. (17:03) You're thinking of someone else who it really is their calling?(17:05) Yeah, yeah. (17:06) Yeah. (17:07) You know what's interesting?(17:08) Sometimes the people where it is their calling don't say it is. (17:11) I'm thinking of someone right now who doesn't say that's their calling, but it definitely is.

Kevin Palmieri

(17:15) Well, I think that's a piece of it is like, I don't, that's the thing. (17:17) Almost if somebody says it's their calling, I immediately start questioning it. (17:22) You know, maybe that's why.(17:24) And again, I don't think this is my calling. (17:27) I don't know if I even fucking have one. (17:29) That's why it's a weird conversation.(17:31) Like I, I like this and I love helping people. (17:35) But I, if you, if you asked me, like, do you think this is your calling? (17:38) I don't think I would say yes.(17:40) Well, the level one is I don't have a calling.

Alan Lazaros

(17:46) Level two is I don't have a calling, but I want to. (17:49) So I say, I do. (17:51) Level three is you do have a calling, but don't know it.(17:55) And you're in it, even if you don't know it. (17:58) And then level four is you're in your calling. (18:01) You've dedicated your life to it consciously.(18:04) And you say it out loud. (18:06) It's very hard to determine level two from four. (18:09) How do you know though?(18:11) How does one know? (18:13) You can't imagine. (18:14) It's almost like nothing else is aligned, even though it would be easier.(18:18) That's why I make the joke about the Aura rings. (18:20) I could sell Aura rings for sure. (18:22) I could, I would love to get a job at Aura.(18:24) That would be awesome. (18:25) But it wouldn't, I can't do it. (18:27) I can't, it's not even an option.(18:28) Like, let me explain that better. (18:33) I can't imagine I would regret that for the rest of my life because it's not, it's not what I'm on earth for. (18:41) I know that I'm not on earth to make Aura rings.(18:44) I'm on earth to, to do what I'm doing right now and do it better. (18:50) When did you know? (18:51) When did you know?

Kevin Palmieri

(18:53) What'd you say? (18:53) When did you know?

Alan Lazaros

(19:04) It was abundantly clear after my car accident at 26. (19:08) It was like, you are supposed to be doing this work in the world.

Kevin Palmieri

(19:20) Did you have, when did you start listening to Tony before or after? (19:25) After. (19:26) After.

Alan Lazaros

(19:27) Yeah, so 11 years ago, his TED talk. (19:31) And I was like, and there was, there was hints before that. (19:35) Remember the trainer I talked about at Cognex?(19:37) That I was like that. (19:38) Something with what he, he was teaching people public speaking. (19:42) And I remember thinking like, I was jealous.(19:44) Envy. (19:45) I think envy is, is proof of your calling. (19:48) But I realize now that that's not always true because some of the things you're envious of are just too stupid.(19:52) Like, not stupid. (19:55) Vain. (19:56) Shallow.(19:56) Shallow. (19:57) If you're envious of someone who has a nicer car than you, that's not your calling. (20:04) Your calling, maybe it is though.(20:06) Maybe you love cars so much that that's your calling. (20:09) I don't know if cars can be a calling. (20:10) A calling or a purpose has to be something in service of the greater good.(20:14) It has to. (20:15) Even if you're delusional about it, it has to be. (20:18) And I think that that's what makes a purpose, a calling, and a mission.(20:21) What is the point? (20:22) It has to be bigger than you. (20:25) That's, back to clarity.(20:27) If you don't have clarity on that, which I realized in book club, book clubbers, you know I love you. (20:32) I say that every time. (20:33) I have been getting breakthroughs in book club because I've been asking some questions and we've had these really cool brainstorms.(20:39) And people are like, I said, okay, who here wants to tell me what their thing is? (20:44) What's the thing you want to be world-class at? (20:45) What's the thing you want to be top 1% at?(20:47) And people couldn't answer. (20:49) Some people couldn't answer. (20:50) And it's like, oh, we got to start there.(20:53) Who are you going to? (20:54) I mean, I'm not good at cooking, but that's by choice. (20:57) That's by choice.(20:58) One of my clients, Nina, the purpose-filled kitchen, right? (21:02) She loves cooking. (21:03) It fulfills her.(21:05) And she's good at it. (21:06) And she's consciously getting better at it. (21:08) You're not going to stumble upon being great in life.(21:12) Like ever, you're not going to stumble upon greatness. (21:15) And if you do, you should have been way greater.

Kevin Palmieri

(21:18) Isn't it like, how obvious is it when you think of like, you have to choose what you want to be good at, but you have to believe you're going to be good enough at it to be able to choose. (21:28) There is something. (21:30) Yeah, there's like a block there.(21:32) And I think that's piece one. (21:34) And I think the other piece is it's very easy to say it and then like give yourself the benefit of the doubt of like, okay, it's going to take a long time. (21:41) And then just not check in on it again for like a long time.(21:44) I think that is such a common thing. (21:45) All the stuff I said I wanted to be great at, I like dipped my toe. (21:50) Like mix, I regret, I don't regret a ton.(21:53) I don't know why it's, I just, that's not necessarily the way I'm wired, I guess. (21:56) And I don't really regret this, honestly. (21:59) But like, I should have given way more to mixed martial arts if I actually wanted to do it.(22:03) I just didn't want to do it as much as I made it seem like.

Alan Lazaros

(22:09) Wouldn't that mean it's not your calling? (22:12) Kind of. (22:13) No, because in hindsight, there's so many indicators.(22:17) Like I was so coachy, dude. (22:20) I was always so coachy. (22:22) And that's a bad thing for most people.(22:24) Most people are like, oh, he's kind of coachy.

Kevin Palmieri

(22:25) But it's easy to say I am. (22:27) I still, I don't know. (22:29) I loved, I loved it.(22:30) I was naturally, I was naturally pretty good at it. (22:35) Did you believe that you could make a career of it? (22:38) I don't think I was even thinking of that.

Alan Lazaros

(22:40) How could you do something and not think of that? (22:43) Like, I don't know. (22:46) And again, I know that I'm on the weird end of this.(22:48) So I'm saying this with a grain of salt. (22:49) I think to a degree, I did. (22:52) I do.(22:53) I think to a degree. (22:54) Because I used to have people- What do you think you were just doing it for fun? (22:56) Like, there's a lot of things you can do for fun.(22:59) But you, like, if you could go back and talk to younger Kev. (23:03) And this is what school is supposed to do. (23:05) School is not doing this well enough.(23:08) That's my truth. (23:09) Villainize me if you want. (23:10) I don't give a shit.(23:12) It's not doing this. (23:12) Career development class. (23:14) Where the fuck was that at?(23:16) Dude, imagine if I taught a career development class. (23:19) The first lesson. (23:21) Clarity on what you want to do with your life.(23:24) Now, here are the options. (23:27) You could be doctor, lawyer, engineer, podcast. (23:29) Like, here are the options.(23:30) Let's just talk about it. (23:31) You don't have to know right now. (23:32) No one knows at 11.(23:33) But you can at least hone. (23:36) All right, I don't like cooking. (23:37) Can't fucking stand it.(23:38) Well, that ain't it. (23:41) Obviously, leaf blowing ain't gonna do it. (23:44) Maybe it is if you like landscaping.(23:46) But you understand. (23:47) You like being outside? (23:49) Do you care?(23:50) Do you like computers? (23:51) We need to have a conversation about here's what the economy actually needs now and in the future that will be valued. (23:58) And here's what you deeply love and is meaningful for you.(24:02) And let's merge them, have a love child, and build a career. (24:06) Like, basketball didn't exist 150 years ago. (24:09) I mean, it did, but there was no market for it.(24:11) You couldn't get paid to do it, you know? (24:15) If we taught a course on this, I feel like a lot of us are wandering around aimlessly, hoping it works out. (24:24) And that ain't gonna work.(24:26) It ain't gonna work. (24:28) Like, the chances of that working are very slim. (24:31) Like, Christian Bale was acting at like seven.

Kevin Palmieri

(24:34) Of course he's gonna be world-class. (24:37) He started at like seven. (24:39) Well, even that though.(24:40) Like, how many people do start at seven that don't make it?

Alan Lazaros

(24:43) Well, not, I mean, here's the thing. (24:46) If you start at seven and you're even remotely talented and you have clarity to stick with it, you're gonna be reasonably successful.

Kevin Palmieri

(24:54) You're gonna. (24:54) But like, that's what I'm, all I'm saying is like, did he want to do it at seven? (24:59) Yeah, that's a great point.

Alan Lazaros

(25:00) Well, that uses the.

Kevin Palmieri

(25:01) Serena and Vina, like, you think they wanted it at seven or however? (25:07) You think Tiger Woods wanted to be out swinging his little driver at four years old? (25:10) Like, I probably not, maybe, I don't know, maybe.(25:15) Is he the best golfer to ever exist? (25:17) Sure. (25:18) Did he, was he built in a lab for lack of better phrasing to be?(25:23) Also maybe, you know? (25:27) Michael Phelps decided at 13, but did he decide?

Alan Lazaros

(25:30) Right. (25:30) And that's the question.

Kevin Palmieri

(25:32) I don't know. (25:32) It is. (25:33) It is wonky.(25:34) The whole thing is, the whole thing is because I, dude, I'm telling you, I didn't, I didn't think it was my calling to be a podcaster. (25:41) I just, I thought it would be awesome. (25:43) But you used to say, I need to be the person I needed at my darkest moment.(25:46) I think if I have a calling, it's to be a good man, but that's a very. (25:52) And then what does good mean? (25:53) What does that mean?(25:57) Positive. (25:58) I don't know. (25:59) I don't know what it means.(26:00) Well, that's where we have to start. (26:03) Positive interactions. (26:04) One of the reasons it's hard to be a podcaster in public is like, I don't like, I don't want to hurt people's feelings.(26:11) I strongly dislike hurting people. (26:13) I don't. (26:15) I feel like there's a way.

Alan Lazaros

(26:16) Go deeper on that.

Kevin Palmieri

(26:17) Because anytime you choose one side, not anytime, oftentimes when you choose one side, the other side feels, um, some type of way about it. (26:29) So even like the story I said about the person that I'm thinking of who said their calling was to be a dad, that's like a cop-out. (26:35) If they were to hear this, that would be extremely offensive to them.(26:37) Now they're not going to hear this because. (26:39) But, but wouldn't it also help them? (26:41) I don't know.

Alan Lazaros

(26:42) Isn't it possible that it would pop their bubble and get them to reassess their. (26:46) I think it's definitely, I think it's possible. (26:48) Yeah.(26:49) You can't really achieve anything in life when you don't take a stand. (26:52) You and I have talked about that in the past, you don't, you want to, you want to help people transform their lives, but you don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

Kevin Palmieri

(26:59) I think there's a way to, I think there's a way to delicately show conflict without. (27:08) Toxicity. (27:08) There's definitely a way to do that.

Alan Lazaros

(27:10) Well, you and I have talked about this in the past. (27:12) I got to go in a second.

Kevin Palmieri

(27:13) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(27:13) The, you being a good man is your calling. (27:17) Maybe you don't know exactly what being a good man is in terms of like the line items, even though, you know, when you see it, but you at least know not being disrespectful, not being toxic, not being, not like controlling other people and manipulating and lying and you know what I mean? (27:35) So.

Kevin Palmieri

(27:35) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(27:37) But even then. (27:38) You know what a shitty man is and you know what it looks like and you don't want to be that. (27:43) Right.(27:43) Which I respect, of course. (27:45) I've had trouble walking the line of, I want to help people transform and I don't like it when people don't like me. (27:52) And in order to help you transform, I have to risk you not liking me.(27:56) And that's been really hard. (27:57) So syntax matters in that. (27:58) But to be continued, if nothing else, I hope clarity came of this.(28:02) And the only wrong answer is to not think about this stuff. (28:05) Like do not wing it and hope the next 30 years work out. (28:08) I don't care how old you are.(28:09) Like clarity is absolute. (28:11) You're not going to design a magnificent life on accident.

Kevin Palmieri

(28:14) I think for tomorrow, we should try to come up with like the five things. (28:18) Like what are the five things you must be clear on? (28:20) Oh, I love it.(28:21) Good little challenge for us. (28:22) Yeah. (28:22) Sounds good.(28:23) Good little challenge. (28:24) All right. (28:24) If you are looking for a group of amazing humans who are doing amazing things in the world and dedicated to getting to the next level, join Next Level Nation, our private Facebook group.(28:33) We will have the link down below. (28:36) Alan and I are committed to being in there more consistently. (28:39) Because again, at the end of the day, like there's a lot AI can do and there's a lot AI can help you with.(28:44) We are super focused on building a real authentic community of real amazing humans. (28:48) So we will be in there every day.

Alan Lazaros

(28:50) And that's going to be us. (28:51) It's not going to be AI. (28:52) It's not going to be other people.(28:53) It's going to be Kevin and Alan. (28:54) So when you see a DM or you see a message or you see a comment or you see a post from Kevin or I, it's going to be Kevin or I. (29:02) And that's what we're committed to in building this global community.(29:05) Also, Book Club, the link will be in the show notes. (29:07) Also, we have the Next Level Dreamliner if you want to be more productive. (29:10) This is $27 on Amazon.

Kevin Palmieri

(29:12) As always, we love you. (29:13) We appreciate you. (29:14) Grateful for each and every one of you.(29:15) And if you are as committed as you say you are to get into the next level, make sure you tune in tomorrow because we will be here every single day to help you get there. (29:22) Keep leveling up to reach your full potential. (29:25) Next Level Nation.(29:26) Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. (29:31) We love connecting with the Next Level family.

Alan Lazaros

(29:33) We mean it when we say family. (29:35) If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. (29:38) Everything you need to get a hold of us is in the show notes.

Kevin Palmieri

(29:42) Thank you again, and we will talk to you tomorrow.