Success CAN’T Be A Trauma Response (2383)

In this episode of Next Level University, Kevin and Alan break down a hard truth most people miss. Success and health are not always the same thing. You can be disciplined, driven, and productive while still building from fear, insecurity, and old wounds. The source of your ambition shapes the quality of your life. Drawing from their own journeys, years of coaching, and thousands of episodes, Kevin and Alan unpack the difference between playing not to lose and playing to win. They break down how identity, self-awareness, and emotional maturity shape performance, fulfillment, and long-term consistency.

This episode will help you look deeper at what is really driving your goals and whether your progress is creating peace or just more pressure. Press play, then take an honest look at the engine behind your ambition.

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Show notes:
(1:29) Success cannot be a trauma response
(4:39) Fulfillment reveals what is driving you
(7:00) Workaholism as a coping mechanism
(11:13) Playing not to lose vs playing to win
(15:52) The drive to five framework
(17:30) How insecurity becomes identity
(20:34) Neediness, value, and aligned sales
(24:24) Constructive pressure and mature decision-making
(29:29) Outro

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Transcript

Kevin Palmieri

(0:00) I think one of the reasons it's very dangerous to listen to certain people when it comes to success and how they achieve success is because a lot of them are running from stuff that they just never were willing to face. (0:13) A lot of them are running from traumas they don't know they had. (0:16) And while they are externally successful, I'm willing to bet they do not have that much internal fulfillment and or self-awareness.(0:23) And if you run the same cycle as them, you're probably going to end up in trouble.

Alan Lazaros

(0:28) I believe a lot of success and quote-unquote greatness actually starts off in pain, trauma, insecurity, running from something that you don't want. (0:40) Welcome to Next Level University. (0:43) I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:45) And I'm your co-host, Alan Lazarus. (0:48) At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no-BS approach to holistic self-improvement for Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health, and wealth. (1:01) We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits, and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros

(1:17) Self-improvement, in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free. (1:23) Welcome to Next Level University.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:29) Next Level Nation today for episode number 2,383, Success Can't Be a Trauma Response. (1:35) Now, I'm not saying it can't be like physically, but I'm saying it probably shouldn't be because it's probably not going to be very sustainable. (1:41) I came across a post on Instagram and it was somebody who was talking about Alex Hermosi.(1:47) And they were talking about how essentially their thesis was the reason he is so successful is because he's running from something. (1:58) To compartmentalize it. (2:00) And then evidently, and I haven't seen the interview so I don't know, but evidently when he sat down with Tony Robbins, Tony kind of poked and prodded at that a little bit.(2:09) Of like, hey- I saw a little bit of that. (2:11) Okay. (2:12) Hey, you kind of, you got to face the shit.(2:15) Like you can't run from the shit even if you're running towards success.

Alan Lazaros

(2:17) That's what I gathered. (2:19) What I saw was Tony saying something along the lines of, and this is rooted in IFS principles, but he said he called it analytical Alex versus fun, playful Alex or whatever. (2:32) And he's like, where was that?(2:34) Where's that fun, playful guy? (2:36) Can we have him back? (2:37) And this is rooted in internal family systems.(2:40) The best example of that quickly is Pixar movies, Inside Out. (2:45) Who's at the console? (2:47) Who's driving the bus?(2:48) And so I have a part of me that's really intense and I have another part of me that's really compassionate. (2:53) I have another part of me that's loves Harry Potter and I have another, right? (2:56) That kind of thing.(2:57) So Alex Hormozy has a very analytical part, as do I. (3:02) And Tony was trying to say like, you don't have to let that drive so much. (3:07) And yes, and that's also why I'm successful.(3:10) Like you can't stop that altogether and just be some fun, playful, you know, guy. (3:16) And I think that that's hard for me to witness because number one, I'm only 36. (3:25) Number two, Alex Hormozy is still young.(3:28) And I do believe a lot of people that are in their sixties like Tony tend to have people make that turn too early. (3:41) How do you know?

Kevin Palmieri

(3:43) Because I had a moment where I was like, okay, you're super driven. (3:48) And there's a lot of people, I mean, we've, you and I have done podcasts in the past, like me, you and somebody else where like afterwards they were very much like, oh no Alan, you don't have to like, it's like, oh Jesus Christ, here we go again. (4:01) You know, you don't have to work so hard.(4:03) Here we go. (4:05) And I firmly, my belief firmly is planted in the fact that you, I don't know. (4:12) I don't know if I know anybody who's faced their trauma as much as you have.(4:14) I'm sure there are people, but like you're very welcome. (4:17) So I know you're not running from trauma to success.

Alan Lazaros

(4:21) No, but I do think I was at one point.

Kevin Palmieri

(4:23) How do you know? (4:24) How, what are, what are the signs? (4:25) What were the signs?(4:26) How does somebody out there right now realize that the reason they want to be super successful is because they want to run from stuff that they could actually never get away from?

Alan Lazaros

(4:39) I think fulfillment. (4:40) I think if you're unfulfilled, you're probably running, your success is a by-product of you running from something. (4:46) Like when I was a 1% earner, paid off all my college debt, got 65K a year to 85, 85 to 105, 105 to 125 and peaked at 180, that whole corporate ladder that I climbed very quickly, the more success didn't create more fulfillment and more meaning.(5:08) Whereas now, more success creates way more fulfillment and way more opportunity for more fulfillment. (5:16) Like you and I had a $90,000 day. (5:18) I am way more proud of that than anything I did in corporate because it's meaningful work.(5:24) It's aligned. (5:25) It's not me running from being broke because when my stepdad left, we were broke and I, that caused massive pain in my family. (5:35) And so I was like, okay, wealth, like I'm going to learn how to build wealth.(5:38) That's why I'm so surprised when people don't know how to build wealth, because I just learned that when I was very young. (5:46) So how do people recognize it? (5:49) It's fulfillment.(5:50) Like, are you fulfilled by your work?

Kevin Palmieri

(5:53) What if they convince themselves that they are? (5:56) So Alex Ramosi comes across as, I've never met the man, but comes across as somebody who is very fulfilled by his work. (6:02) When he says, there's nothing I'd rather do, like I'd rather be working.(6:06) One of my buddies told me this. (6:07) They listen to his podcast every day. (6:11) And he went on this like, Alex Ramosi in this case, went on this extremely nice vacation.(6:16) They rented out like the entire top floor, the most expensive. (6:19) And like two or three days in, him and his wife just left. (6:22) They're like, fuck this.(6:23) I don't want to do this. (6:24) I want to go back and work. (6:25) I want to go back and grind.

Alan Lazaros

(6:27) That would mean they are most likely fulfilled by their work. (6:30) You would have to think so, right? (6:31) Yeah, of course.(6:32) But I also think that those vacations are more empty than people think. (6:36) But I also think they're actually fulfilling for some people. (6:39) I think I would love that.(6:41) Yeah. (6:42) There's no way I would. (6:43) I would enjoy it, but I would also want to get back to this.(6:47) I'd do both. (6:48) I would do both for sure. (6:50) Okay.

Kevin Palmieri

(6:52) What's, okay. (6:53) What is your label? (6:55) What is your definition of workaholic?

Alan Lazaros

(7:00) Someone who is working to avoid uncomfortable relationships or trauma or insecurity. (7:07) Someone who's working as a coping mechanism. (7:10) So the opposite.(7:10) And that's one of the things everyone thinks. (7:12) Yeah. (7:13) I told a woman, Deborah, one time, you've heard this story.(7:17) I said, I haven't taken a full day off in 11 years. (7:20) She said, oh my God, that's so bad for you. (7:23) And I said, Deborah, no, that's bad for you.(7:27) I love what I do and I don't want to take a day off. (7:33) Sometimes it's an hour. (7:34) The lowest I ever go is an hour.(7:36) In 11 years, the lowest I've ever gone is a full hour. (7:40) I did an hour and 10 minutes this Sunday. (7:42) That was hard for me.(7:43) It's like, I was close to my hour. (7:46) What? (7:47) The lowest amount of work I do in a day.(7:49) Lowest amount. (7:50) Okay. (7:50) The minimum.(7:52) Minimum. (7:52) An hour. (7:53) My maximum is like, I don't know, 18 or something, but I try to keep it around 10, 10 to 12.(8:03) And then Sundays I like to keep it low. (8:05) I try to keep it at like three hours or less, depending. (8:08) It's anywhere from one to six, really.(8:10) But anyways, so I know, I know. (8:13) The point that I'm making though, is a workaholic is someone who's using it as a coping mechanism to avoid the discomfort of facing some hard truth. (8:24) What's the difference between someone who drinks for fun versus someone who's an alcoholic?(8:27) The alcoholic is using it to cope with life.

Kevin Palmieri

(8:32) Yeah. (8:32) Somebody posted recently, it was like, yeah, I used to do the grind and I used to do the long hours and now I realize how empty it was. (8:42) It's like, well, that doesn't mean maybe it means you were grinding at the wrong thing.(8:48) Yeah, most likely. (8:48) I still love the, how aligned is your grind? (8:51) We talked about that a long time ago.(8:52) I love that because I still would rather get up at four tomorrow, Thursdays are the hardest day of the week. (8:59) I get up at 4am and I usually work until like seven. (9:01) It's a long fucking day.(9:03) Brutal. (9:04) But I'd rather do that than anything else I've ever done. (9:09) And I'm not doing that because I'm running from something.(9:12) We have goals that I want to achieve. (9:14) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(9:14) Well, are your goals running from something and you're playing not to lose or are they playing to win? (9:21) And I think that's a good metaphor.

Kevin Palmieri

(9:23) My goals are definitely running from some things I'm sure. (9:28) Taryn and I are being broke. (9:30) Yeah.(9:31) But Taryn and I talked about that last night. (9:33) I've been working full time since I was, I don't know, 16. (9:39) No, no, no.(9:40) Not when I was in high school. (9:41) 17 probably. (9:42) I've been working full time.(9:44) And then money was always the thing. (9:47) Like I have to, I have to find a way to make money. (9:51) Like I have to make money.(9:52) Nobody else, nobody's going to provide for me. (9:53) I have to find a way to make money. (9:55) Yeah.(9:56) Right. (9:57) Nobody's going to provide for me. (9:58) How powerful.(10:00) And again, I'm not, my mom would, if I called her and said, Hey, I need, like she would help me for sure.

Alan Lazaros

(10:04) And she has. (10:06) She has.

Kevin Palmieri

(10:07) Right.

Alan Lazaros

(10:07) Yeah. (10:07) But, but I do like that mentality. (10:11) No one's going to provide for me.(10:13) I have to learn. (10:15) Emilia's dad is an entrepreneur and he said I had to learn how to generate revenue. (10:20) Like that's a really, really hard skill.(10:23) Like people underestimate how easy that is. (10:25) It's like really hard to do that. (10:27) Anyone can, oh, that's going to sound so pretentious.(10:31) If you want to be an entrepreneur, you have to learn that skill. (10:36) You have to learn how to generate revenue. (10:38) You have to.(10:39) And you have to try to do it with integrity. (10:42) Like it is alarmingly difficult. (10:44) Like podcasting was challenging.(10:48) Generating revenue with a podcast was exponentially harder. (10:52) It's not even close actually. (10:54) Like I don't want to just say anyone can podcast because I, there's levels, but the highest level is learning how to generate sustainable income revenue that is reinvested back in the company to be able to do your own thing.(11:07) Everyone would do their own thing if they knew how to do that. (11:09) That's like the hardest skill. (11:10) You've done very well at that.(11:12) Yeah. (11:12) You're welcome. (11:13) Back to the point of this episode though, is are you playing not to lose or playing to win?(11:19) Everyone's both, but the, but the syntax shifts. (11:24) So when I was younger, I was playing not to lose, playing not to lose relationships. (11:32) Again, lost three families, kinda, by the time I'm 14, not kinda, fully, almost fully.(11:38) And I didn't want to lose any more friends and family. (11:41) So I was playing not to lose relationships. (11:43) So, so how do you not lose relationships?(11:45) You make sure everybody comes with you. (11:47) You make sure everybody's good. (11:49) You make sure everybody has a resume.(11:50) You make sure everyone has a cover letter. (11:51) You make sure everyone has a job. (11:52) You make sure everybody, you make sure you believe in everybody.(11:54) You make sure that you don't get ostracized from the tribe. (11:59) You be what other people need. (12:01) So I got really good at that.(12:05) And eventually you realize I'm playing not to lose. (12:09) You were playing not to lose money. (12:11) I was playing not to lose relationships.(12:14) And we, ironically, that got us to a certain level, but it has a ceiling. (12:23) And then we had to evolve. (12:25) We had to, to get to the next level, we have to play to win.(12:30) But some people get there playing not to lose.

Kevin Palmieri

(12:33) Yeah. (12:33) Get there. (12:34) Where's there?(12:34) Well, that's what I mean. (12:35) Successful. (12:36) That's why, that's why the point of this episode is it, you can be successful.(12:42) If you're just running from stuff, you can, it just not fulfilled, fulfilled, not, it's not sustainable.

Alan Lazaros

(12:49) If success is external outcomes, you can absolutely do that playing not to lose. (12:57) How do you know the difference if you've never experienced it? (13:01) One of them is mostly fear.(13:03) And the other one is mostly desire, but our desires are in the opposite direction of our fears. (13:08) If you're afraid to be alone, you're, you desire being, you know, with a dream partner. (13:13) Like this is, and this is the awesome part.(13:16) I think maybe, maybe when we're young, we'll call it kindergarten, 10% desire, 90% fear. (13:27) I had a crush on Carrie. (13:29) Remember Carrie in kindergarten?(13:31) I think. (13:32) Yeah. (13:33) Last name with a P starts with a P.(13:36) No, no. (13:37) Oh wait. (13:37) No, no.(13:38) That's her new last name. (13:39) She married, she got married and her last name changed. (13:42) Anyways.(13:42) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(13:43) Okay.

Alan Lazaros

(13:44) The point is, you know who I'm talking about? (13:46) No, I don't. (13:46) Oh, you don't anymore.(13:47) Okay. (13:49) Kindergarten, I had a crush on her. (13:52) Let's say it's 10% fear, 90% or no, 90% fear, 10% desire.(14:01) Then it's 20, 80. (14:03) Then it's 30, 70. (14:05) Then it's 40, 60.(14:06) Then it's 50, 50. (14:07) Then it flips. (14:09) Mine flipped after my car accident.(14:12) I don't think it flips. (14:13) My deepest fear was faced.

Kevin Palmieri

(14:15) I don't think it flips for most people. (14:17) I think it goes the other way. (14:18) I think when you're young, you're, it's like 90 desire, 10 fear.(14:22) You don't think about anything when you're young. (14:25) That would make a lot of sense. (14:27) My, my Nana, who is my, my father's mother, who I used to spend a lot of time with, she used to tell stories about how, like when I was an infant, I would just run around naked.(14:37) I would just go to, we would just go to the beach and I would just take my clothes off, run around naked. (14:40) I wasn't afraid of anything to a detriment, to a detriment. (14:44) And I think as we get older life, you get to a certain point.

Alan Lazaros

(14:48) You think that you're still playing not to lose. (14:51) We all are to some extent. (14:52) I just think it's less than you used to do it at the beginning.(14:55) You were playing fully not to lose, not to lose credibility, not to lose the guests, not to lose me, not to lose the podcast.

Kevin Palmieri

(15:03) I don't want to, I don't want to lose the goal. (15:05) I don't want to lose the goal. (15:06) The credibility piece.(15:07) Like, I don't, I don't know.

Alan Lazaros

(15:08) I say a lot of stuff on here. (15:10) You want to win, but I feel like you're trying not to lose. (15:14) But what if that's how I win?(15:15) Quote unquote. (15:16) I think it is. (15:17) Your fear of losing drives you to win.(15:21) Dude, that's a, that can lead you down some dark paths.

Kevin Palmieri

(15:24) For sure. (15:25) But I think there's a, there's a lot of people that don't have enough of that. (15:27) Agreed.(15:28) They just think they're going to win.

Alan Lazaros

(15:29) And I don't know. (15:32) I think it's human. (15:33) It creates humility.(15:35) Like if you think you're going to, but that does have a ceiling of course, because I think for everybody, just assess zero to 10. (15:51) We do this all the time. (15:52) Drive to five, five is optimal.(15:55) Zero is you're playing just not to lose, not to lose credibility, not to, not to lose face, not to lose your reputation, not to lose your brand. (16:03) You're playing not to lose. (16:04) You're scared all the time.(16:06) 10 is you're fully playing to win. (16:09) You're not afraid of anything. (16:10) And you only do things that you want to do.(16:13) Like that's probably entitled and arrogant. (16:17) So I'm always, I'm always a devil and angel thing. (16:25) And again, I don't like that reference necessarily, but I'm always wrestling with this.(16:31) Like, for example, we offered something to group 21 and I was like, is that dumb? (16:37) Like, is that devaluing me? (16:40) And then I have this other part of me that's like, Alan, no, you want to do that.(16:44) This is coaching. (16:45) You love coaching. (16:46) Like, come on.(16:48) You are always wrestling with these, you know, is that because I don't know my value? (16:57) Or is that because I actually want to coach more and it's both probably, well, it might not even more.

Kevin Palmieri

(17:05) It might not even be that it could be, you are devaluing yourself and you love coaching and what, and you love coaching. (17:12) Yeah. (17:12) Like you can, you can devalue and they can exist at the same.

Alan Lazaros

(17:17) Yeah. (17:18) You know, at the same time for everyone out there listening, this is your, this started out with greatness starts with insecurity. (17:28) That's what I said at the top of the episode.(17:30) Level one is you're insecure that you're short. (17:34) So you decide to go to the gym. (17:36) That's what you did.(17:37) I'm insecure that I'm prepubescent. (17:39) So I'm going to decide to be Brad Pitt and Troy. (17:41) Okay.(17:42) So it starts out with insecurity, being insignificant, being a loser. (17:48) Okay. (17:49) We had a history class where I had to give a speech in front of the class and I was so scared.(17:54) I went to a hypnotist and she recorded these tapes of me talking and associating snowboarding because I was a good snowboarder with public speaking. (18:06) So the insecure little Allen created the opportunity to become a public speaker. (18:14) And then eventually that becomes, okay.(18:20) Level one is you're insecure. (18:21) Level two is you overcome your insecurity by doing something about it. (18:26) Level three is now I've built my identity around this, but it's not real because I actually don't have the insecurity as much as I used to.(18:37) Level four is okay. (18:39) I'm going to shed that old skin. (18:43) I'm externally successful, but not internally fulfilled because I'm running from something.(18:49) And then the next level is like, I'm going to merge these two. (18:54) Now it's, I don't have to be seen as a man because I wasn't seen as a man when everyone else became men and I was prepubescent. (19:02) Now it's, I want to be seen as a man still, but I don't need to.(19:09) And that, I think that's like the ultimate is I am successful. (19:14) I still want to be successful. (19:16) I don't need to be.(19:18) It's fascinating. (19:19) Like you and I had a $90,000 day, dude. (19:22) That is awesome.(19:24) And that's great. (19:25) That's great. (19:26) And I'm still going to be this man, even if we didn't like, and the man who can build that matters to me more than that.

Kevin Palmieri

(19:37) It's like, it's, it's a, it's a nice to have. (19:39) I had a, I had a podcast breakthrough session today. (19:42) I wouldn't even call it that because it was a referral.(19:44) Like somebody referred me, shout out to you. (19:46) I appreciate you so much. (19:47) And it was just a different, I, I was thinking this today when I was driving back, cause I've been listening to a lot of books, a lot of books on sales and, and that, and they were talking about how in the beginning you are literally like, you need the person to say yes.

Alan Lazaros

(20:03) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(20:04) For not, it would be nice. (20:06) Like you don't pay a bill if you, if they don't say yes, you're not going, there are bills that just are not going to get paid. (20:11) It's the worst.(20:11) It is the worst. (20:13) And I was thinking back and I remember that vividly.

Alan Lazaros

(20:17) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(20:17) What that was like.

Alan Lazaros

(20:18) It was like, yeah, like the breakthrough session, I had to move one earlier today. (20:22) And I remember thinking like, that was kind of entitled. (20:25) I remember back when I would be like, for sure, I need this.(20:28) Your whole day would be your whole day.

Kevin Palmieri

(20:30) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(20:30) Your whole day would be around trying to make sure that you do your best for the session.

Kevin Palmieri

(20:34) I had to a client, a great call with somebody today, but it was just like the energy of, oh, this would be nice, but yeah, whatever. (20:42) Not, I'm not arrogant. (20:44) I'm not saying like, well, they'll definitely work with us because they should.(20:48) And he's going to see my value. (20:49) I'm not saying that I showed up as the aligned version of Kev. (20:54) I gave value.(20:56) I added value. (20:58) And then we'll see what happens. (21:00) Not, I need this person.(21:02) It would be awesome. (21:03) I'm very much look forward to the, it's one not need the potential desire, less fear. (21:08) See so that, but it's a weird feeling because it almost, it almost does feel arrogant.

Alan Lazaros

(21:13) And I think it will, if you're not worried about that. (21:16) Yeah, that's fair. (21:16) Like I was on a podcast breakthrough session, not a podcast breakthrough session, pre-chat, pre-chat with, uh, what was his name?(21:29) Damn. (21:31) It's a leadership podcast. (21:34) And he did the like, and I get it.(21:36) He like, why should I, you know, why should you be on my show? (21:39) And I said, honestly, I leave it to you to get out of my brain what you think is of value to your listeners. (21:47) So I just started asking him questions about his listener.(21:49) He's like, well, why are you here? (21:50) And I said, number one, I want to master my craft. (21:53) This is good practice.(21:54) Number two, I want to impact. (21:55) And number three, if something comes of that for my company, that's great too. (21:59) And he's like, fair.(22:00) And he did a little bit of the, like, prove to me why you should be on. (22:06) And he, he recorded it on a, uh, he has a co-host and he's like, my, my co-host is going to see this. (22:12) Like, tell us like, is there anything you want my co-host to see?(22:16) And I said, no. (22:18) Uh, yeah. (22:19) Uh, unless this is a win, win, win, don't do it.(22:25) If it's not a win, win, win, don't do it. (22:28) I don't want, it's not going to work if you guys don't want me on. (22:34) I understand.(22:35) I respect that. (22:36) We have guests we absolutely will not interview under any circumstance. (22:40) Like, I respect that you take your show seriously enough to like do this pre-chat.(22:44) That's, that's all fine. (22:45) You do your research. (22:46) Let me know.(22:47) And, but I'm not going to like, can you juggle? (22:49) Can you dance? (22:50) Can you improv?(22:51) Like, what are we doing here, man? (22:53) I, I, but I also can't get cocky and say, well, I shouldn't have to answer your questions. (22:58) Right.(22:59) Of course, of course it's your podcast, podcast, your platform. (23:02) Like I should answer a few questions. (23:05) Yeah.(23:06) There's, there's a, there's a center point between being arrogant and entitled and then being like overly fearful that you need the opportunity. (23:21) And I think that in the beginning you, you realized that you were like overly scarce and you needed the client and that probably ended up getting you less clients. (23:30) But then you also swing the other side.(23:33) We've done this. (23:33) I've done this for sure. (23:34) Where it's like, well, you know, I don't really want to coach on Saturday at 7am.(23:40) So, you know, and it's like, I lost clients because that's when they were available. (23:44) Right. (23:44) So you, you really do have to, you can't get cocky, but you all, you can't play too scared and too scarce, but you also can't play too abundant where you're like an entitled prick.

Kevin Palmieri

(23:58) I, we, I had a client for a long time. (24:02) It was, it was 7am on Saturday. (24:04) I was like, oh my God, this is atrocious.(24:07) But I was up early, so it was good. (24:10) You know, I got up early on a Saturday that maybe that started the streak of me getting up early.

Alan Lazaros

(24:13) I know we got to go, but I want to ask you this. (24:16) When did it shift for you or is it shifting now?

Kevin Palmieri

(24:24) I said this to, I said this to Taryn today. (24:26) I said, you know, the, the, the only downside of having many high ticket clients, clients that pay you a lot of money is if, and when they do leave, it's just a giant hit and you're paranoid about it. (24:38) I mean, like I said, imagine, just imagine like you lost your job.(24:42) Like we have clients that pay us that much money. (24:45) Yeah. (24:46) So your job just goes away.(24:47) Like I said, that could happen to me any day. (24:49) That could happen to me today. (24:51) And I'd have to find a way to figure it out.(24:52) Like that's a lot of fucking pressure.

Alan Lazaros

(24:54) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(24:54) It's a lot of stress. (24:55) There's a lot of, there's a lot of pressure associated with that. (24:57) I don't know.(24:58) I think I am.

Alan Lazaros

(24:58) People only tell you the high side. (25:00) Like, Hey, you have a $9,000, $108,000 client. (25:03) Yeah.(25:03) What they don't tell you is if you lose that client, you lose an 108 grand every year. (25:10) Like, yeah, that's a big, you know, the stakes are high.

Kevin Palmieri

(25:14) I think that I, I don't know. (25:18) I think I am constructively playing not to lose. (25:23) I think I'm constructively playing not to lose because I think I'm, I always try to think from a paranoid place, but not, it doesn't stop me from making a certain decision.(25:33) I think it just, it allows me to be reactive and hopefully humble like that. (25:44) It allows me to be reactive and humble and understand that it's not just, they shouldn't stay with us if they're not happy. (25:57) I don't expect that.(25:58) So it's my job to make sure they're happy. (26:00) And not, not everybody's going to tell you if they're not happy. (26:04) So I need to be, I need to know, I need to be paranoid enough to say like, Hey, I know everything seems fine, but I've done this long enough to know that this isn't.(26:12) And like something, we need to do something about this.

Alan Lazaros

(26:15) Yeah. (26:17) I think that we've driven to five pretty well on this. (26:24) I would say so.(26:25) And we've swung back and forth a few times, but not much. (26:28) Yeah. (26:28) You're like, you went from zero to one to two to three to four to five.(26:32) I went from like 10 to nine to eight to seven to six to, you know, and I think we've drove to five pretty well. (26:37) And I think we're still swinging, but not nearly as much. (26:43) Yeah.(26:44) It's, I think that's what maturity is. (26:47) I really do. (26:47) I really do.(26:48) You just don't sweat. (26:49) You still swing. (26:51) I'm not going to never be arrogant again.(26:54) I'm not going to never get entitled again. (26:57) I'm not going to never be, you're never, you're not going to never be fearful again, but, but we're definitely swinging less drastically.

Kevin Palmieri

(27:07) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(27:07) Right. (27:07) Like instead of it's the end of days when you lose that client, it's like, wow, that's a really big L toward my goals. (27:15) Right.(27:16) It's so for the listeners out there, where are you at on this? (27:21) I was overly playing to win, not worried about losing to the not optimal failing forward too much. (27:31) You were like avoiding failure at all costs for sure.(27:34) Too much. (27:35) And so you weren't swinging enough. (27:37) And I was over swinging at the expense of any level of credibility whatsoever.(27:43) Uh, and now I think we're more close to the center. (27:45) So for the listener, where are you at? (27:48) Everything is the drive to five.(27:49) It's called an optimal stopping problem. (27:51) Please look that up. (27:52) Optimal stopping, put it in Google, putting it, put it in chat, GPT, whatever cloud AI, you name it, uh, ask what, what is an optimal stopping problem?(28:00) And look at that. (28:02) That's what the drive to five is. (28:04) And it's necessary for decision-making in pretty much everything.

Kevin Palmieri

(28:09) Super cool moment today. (28:10) I posted in the next level fitness accountability group that I worked out with Bruce. (28:14) Bruce is 79 years young.(28:16) Him and I had did a full workout together. (28:17) And at the end, he's like, dude, thank you so much. (28:19) I appreciate it.(28:20) I really love working out with you. (28:21) It was like, oh, this is awesome. (28:22) I told Tara that she, she did her cry face.(28:24) He was like, oh my goodness. (28:26) And shout out to Alex. (28:27) Alex listens to the podcast and is in the next level fitness accountability group.(28:30) And he said, I've heard great things about the legendary Bruce on the podcast. (28:34) So if you're a podcast listener and you want to dive deeper into NLU and you want to dive deeper into yourself and your own health and fitness, we have the next level fitness accountability group. (28:42) It is turned into this beautiful community of people that started listening to the podcast and heard us talking about it.(28:48) And now we're there. (28:49) So if you're interested, reach out to Alan and or myself, and we'll, we'll get you in there.

Alan Lazaros

(28:52) He said, heard great things about Bruce on the podcast. (28:55) Legendary traps. (28:56) I hear.(28:56) Yes, he has legendary traps, legendary traps. (28:59) That's his favorite thing to work out too much for anyone out there who, if you've never had a coach 30 minute breakthrough session, give it a shot. (29:08) Cancel any time, no long-term contract.(29:12) There are certain clients that I sell packages to after we've been coaching for a while, but I never do that out of the gate. (29:19) I've never done that out of the gate. (29:20) I'm never going to do that out of the gate because if it's not a good fit, I don't want to do it either to the point of this episode.(29:25) So give it a shot. (29:27) It's more affordable than you think.

Kevin Palmieri

(29:29) As always, we love you. (29:30) We appreciate you grateful for each and every one of you. (29:32) And if you are as committed as you say you are to getting to the next level, make sure you tune in tomorrow because we will be here every single day to help you get there.

Alan Lazaros

(29:38) Keep leveling up to reach your full potential. (29:41) Next level nation.

Kevin Palmieri

(29:43) Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. (29:47) We love connecting with the next level family.

Alan Lazaros

(29:49) We mean it when we say family. (29:51) If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. (29:55) Everything you need to get ahold of us is in the show notes.(29:58) Thank you again. (29:59) And we will talk to you tomorrow.