Where Do You Get Your Dopamine From? (2393)

What feels good is shaping your future. In today’s episode, Kevin and Alan break down how dopamine influences your habits, your decisions, and the direction of your life more than most people realize. Drawing from personal experience, coaching insights, and years of studying human behavior, they explain why so many people get trapped in short-term rewards that quietly pull them away from their long-term goals. They also reflect on how their own relationship with discipline, pleasure, and progress has evolved.

This episode is about learning to notice what your brain is being trained to chase and why that matters. When your reward system is tied to the wrong things, growth becomes harder. When it is tied to the right things, consistency becomes more possible.

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For more information, check out our website and socials using the links below. 👇

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Show notes:
(2:02) Dopamine, anticipation, and addiction
(6:14) Rewarding progress instead of impulse
(8:34) Aligning pleasure with real goals
(14:27) Hedonism versus meaningful achievement
(17:41) Tracking habits to rewire behavior
(19:14) Outro

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Transcript

Kevin Palmieri

(0:00) I am currently rewiring where I get my dopamine from because for a long time I felt really good when I would buy presents for loved ones. (0:12) And as we were working on specific financial goals and saving money and becoming debt free and all that stuff, I started to feel bad about stuff like that. (0:21) And I'm quite literally trying to rewire that and that is an awareness that I just got maybe yesterday.

Alan Lazaros

(0:27) You can tell a lot about a person and their future based on where they get self-esteem, dopamine, pride from.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:36) Welcome to Next Level University. (0:39) I'm your host Kevin Palmieri. (0:41) And I'm your co-host Alan Lazarus.(0:44) At NLU we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros

(0:50) Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health, and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:57) We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits, and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros

(1:13) Self-improvement in your pocket every day from anywhere completely free. (1:19) Welcome to Next Level University.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:25) Next Level Nation today for episode number 2,393. (1:28) Where do you get your dopamine from? (1:29) We were talking about this a little bit the other day and I remember, Alan, when I was younger, I used to go to Kay Jewelers all the time.(1:40) That was my spot up in Millberry, the Millberry Mountain, right? (1:43) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(1:44) Hey, good spot. (1:45) Good spot. (1:45) That was the go-to.(1:47) Yep. (1:47) That was the go-to for me as well. (1:48) I bought Amelia a necklace from there when I asked her to be with me six years ago.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:52) There you go. (1:53) I always felt really good going there and buying something for whoever, a girlfriend or whoever I was dating at the time. (2:03) And as we got really dialed in and really stringent on finances, I felt guilty about stuff like that because it was like, ah, we're really focused on certain goals and this is also technically half Alan's money, so I can't be going out and buying expensive jewelry with the business money.(2:22) It's not a good look. (2:23) Not a great look. (2:24) I'm still gonna, but I should.

Alan Lazaros

(2:26) I'm gonna.

Kevin Palmieri

(2:27) I'll buy the lesser one. (2:28) I'm still going to do it, but I'm going to feel bad about it though. (2:31) But I had a moment where I, I got to keep it down because I don't know if Taryn can hear me, I ordered something the other day for myself.(2:37) I remember I told you the Jason Voorhees posters and I ordered something for her and I was like, oh, that feels good. (2:44) Oh my God, that feels so good. (2:47) I used to take pride in doing stuff like that and I used to take the dopamine that came with it and I have lost that for a long time.(2:55) Now again, you can fucking take that too far. (2:59) You could take that too far.

Alan Lazaros

(3:01) We're not, you know, credit card companies are counting on you taking that too far.

Kevin Palmieri

(3:05) Six dozen roses, please. (3:07) Just today. (3:08) Uh, every day.(3:09) Just send them every day. (3:10) Just keep sending them until I tell you to stop. (3:12) You can't, you can't do that.(3:13) Right. (3:14) But I do. (3:15) I think this is really important because you know where I used to get my dopamine from.(3:18) I used to go to a party and take my shirt off. (3:21) There's a reason I always used to take my shirt off because I would get rewarded for it. (3:24) It felt good.(3:25) Rinse and repeat. (3:26) And I was that, I was that dingo that, you know, somebody would spill a drink. (3:30) The drink wouldn't even be fully poured out yet.(3:33) And I'd be like, Oh my God, let me dump this shirt off here. (3:36) I would hate for this to spill on anybody. (3:37) So yeah, you have to be very careful.(3:39) And that's something that I literally was thinking yesterday. (3:41) I was like, Oh my God, I have so much negative. (3:44) I have a lot of negative feelings associated with buying things, which is not a bad thing necessarily.

Alan Lazaros

(3:50) No, no, it's a good thing. (3:51) It's a good thing. (3:52) It's important.(3:53) One of the things, so this is, this episode was because I read a book called the molecule of more. (4:00) This is tiny. (4:01) I'm on audible right now.(4:02) How a single chemical in your brain drives love, sex, and creativity and will determine the fate of the human race. (4:11) That's a little excessive.

Kevin Palmieri

(4:12) That's heavy.

Alan Lazaros

(4:13) Yeah. (4:14) Uh, Daniel Lieberman and Michael long. (4:18) All right.(4:19) So I read this book a couple of years ago and it's, it's important. (4:23) It's not, I don't want to say it's a life-changing book, but I think it can be the idea. (4:28) I don't like the book.(4:29) I don't care about the concept. (4:31) Super powerful. (4:32) I read books for concepts.(4:34) I'm reading the obstacles the way again.

Kevin Palmieri

(4:35) Oh, the concept. (4:37) I feel like if you ever had like a, you're not going to, but like if you had a blog or whatever, where you reviewed books, it would be world-class.

Alan Lazaros

(4:44) Thanks man.

Kevin Palmieri

(4:45) Because you are very honest about it.

Alan Lazaros

(4:48) Thank you. (4:49) You're welcome to be continued. (4:53) No, but anyways, the molecule of more dopamine is anticipatory brain chemical drug that you get looking forward to something.(5:06) And after you get something, it's supposed to be, what's a good example of this? (5:15) Okay. (5:16) I just watched avatar three again.(5:19) It came, it was, I asked a L E X a, I was like, when is that coming out to stream? (5:25) Cause we saw it in theaters and it was like tomorrow. (5:28) And I was like, Oh shit.(5:30) Yeah, baby. (5:31) So I bought it the next day, 20 bucks. (5:34) But that before an Emilian, I always call it the anticipatory circuit.(5:40) We always need something to look forward to. (5:42) Whenever I know the next few weeks are going to blow, I need something that's really okay. (5:46) So, but you have to design it.(5:48) Otherwise you'll always be looking for dopamine. (5:50) Dopamine is the brain chemical that cocaine activates. (5:54) So amphetamines, Adderall, cocaine, all these things you get high, you get super high.(6:01) Whenever you're at a concert and you get into group flow, you get a ton of dopamine. (6:04) It's like, but then you crash wicked hard, especially if you did drugs. (6:08) No, but the truth is, is you have to be careful and design what you get your dopamine from.(6:14) So one of the things, the things that give the most dopamine, alcohol, drugs, pornography, all these things, they're wildly detrimental. (6:22) Shopping, addictions, all addictions come down to the molecule of more and you never get enough of it. (6:29) That's why the book is so powerful.(6:30) It's the molecule of more meaning more and more. (6:32) I try to tie my dopamine to progress and meaningful achievement. (6:36) I tie my dopamine to being dialed in.(6:38) I tie my dopamine into adding value. (6:40) How do you choose? (6:42) You give yourself, um, there's something you do.(6:48) What's a good example of this? (6:51) Okay. (6:51) Let's say I had a fucking awesome coaching session.(6:55) Afterwards. (6:56) I'd be like, yes, I give it. (6:59) That's it.(7:00) Something that's so simple. (7:01) It's like, fuck you. (7:04) People, I used to say this all the time.(7:06) I know you and I talked about this on the podcast way back. (7:11) If you're going to feel terrible about the bad decisions you make, you need to learn how to feel good about the good decisions. (7:16) I don't want you to just like, you're not going to pat yourself on the back for waking up on time.(7:21) Like let's not be children, but you do need to give yourself like my fitness streak, dude. (7:30) I mean, every time I do that miles for mindset at the end, not only do I have the runner's high and the blood flowing, but I also like fuck. (7:39) Yeah, for sure.(7:41) I do that all the time. (7:42) I do that. (7:42) And here's the other thing.(7:44) This is the side that people suck at. (7:45) In my opinion, that sounded mean, but it is what it is. (7:49) Give yourself the fucking pain.(7:50) When you make terrible choices, that is more important. (7:53) In my opinion, Kev, those pip decks, I will never let it go. (8:00) I can, I've sensed that brother.(8:02) You can't make bad choices and be pumped about it. (8:06) That's how you wire your future for fucking failure. (8:09) And when you fail forward and make meaningful progress, you can't give yourself a ton of pain.(8:14) So when I show up three minutes late and I still crush a coaching session, do I give myself pain or do I give myself good for you for over-delivering? (8:21) You have to constantly dial this in. (8:24) And when you overeat, you can't give yourself pleasure.(8:29) I try really hard. (8:31) This is a success oriented podcast. (8:33) So this is what I would say.(8:34) Last piece, try to align your dopaminergic system, dopaminergic system with goals. (8:42) Whatever your goal is. (8:46) It was actually tough for me to go from a bulk.(8:48) I got all the way to 210. (8:49) I'm not naturally 210. (8:51) Like that's 30 pounds heavier than my fitness weight, my show weight, a little more than that.(8:57) Going to 10 pounds in 10 weeks. (8:59) I had to rewire my whole being. (9:02) I had to, cause I'm an ectomorph.(9:03) So I'm six, two. (9:04) I don't gain weight that easily. (9:05) So I'm, I'm, I have to force feed to gain weight.(9:09) So I was lifting heavier and I had to give myself more dopamine for shorter reps. (9:14) I like long reps. (9:15) I like cardiovascular.(9:16) I run like the wind. (9:17) I love all that, but I can't get pumped about running because I'm not a fucking runner. (9:23) So you have to be careful with what you give your dopamine for.(9:28) And you have to also give yourself pain. (9:30) I think that's the one that I'm really good at is I don't let myself off the hook when I fuck up. (9:35) I like, give myself pain for, for anything that's a bad decision.(9:40) If I make a good decision and it goes poorly, I give myself dopamine. (9:44) You think you naturally have a higher dopamine set point? (9:46) Yes.(9:47) You think that's a piece of it? (9:49) A hundred percent. (9:49) As a matter of fact, when you read the book, it talks about the statistics of dopamine and some people have a much lower me for sex drive, much lower dopaminergic drive.(9:59) Mine has always been extremely high. (10:01) I would say levels play a play of factor hormones, all this stuff. (10:04) But, but my dopamine is, has always been extremely high.(10:09) Achievers typically have like an addiction to dope, to dopamine.

Kevin Palmieri

(10:14) I'm excited to read the book. (10:15) I have like, I don't, I have a high sex drive for sure. (10:17) And I think I probably have high, higher than average tests.(10:20) I would have to imagine. (10:21) Yeah, for sure. (10:21) Without a question.(10:22) But dopamine, I don't think so.

Alan Lazaros

(10:24) I think it's higher than it used to be, but no, it's definitely higher than it used to be. (10:27) So dopamine receptors too, you can grow them. (10:33) Fuck.(10:34) This is a very scientific episode. (10:36) I dig this. (10:37) It's interesting too.(10:38) Cause I don't talk about this often, but I'm always rewiring myself. (10:45) I have to really give myself pain when I'm late. (10:47) I have to try really hard to like, Alan, come on, come on.(10:51) Whatever you're trying to change. (10:53) Like I have 19 minutes and 32 seconds. (10:55) Like I'm, you have to give yourself, you have to orient yourself in the world towards your goals.(11:00) Otherwise you'll never get them. (11:01) When I see the good, I was going to say the 10 pound and 10 a week challenge was the opposite for me. (11:06) Yeah.(11:06) You like cutting. (11:07) You have, you have positive dopamine with, I don't like it. (11:10) No, no.(11:11) I like being lean. (11:11) You have, you have a negative association with gaining weight. (11:15) I don't.(11:15) Cause I was tall and lanky. (11:16) You were short and fat. (11:17) I'm kidding.(11:18) Obviously. (11:18) But you, you gaining weight was way worse because for me, you've never been tall and lanky, dude. (11:24) It's the worst.

Kevin Palmieri

(11:25) I've never, well, yeah. (11:26) Well you have been short, so that's different. (11:28) I guess.

Alan Lazaros

(11:29) Yeah. (11:29) It was, it was worse. (11:30) I'd rather be tall and lanky than short, but anyone who's tall and lanky, like one of my clients, Cole, I know you're listening.(11:35) He started running the miles for mindset. (11:36) He's already six, seven minutes. (11:39) Like easily he runs like the wind.(11:40) It's like, yeah. (11:41) Ectomorphs. (11:41) Like we, we were not meant for bodybuilding, dude.(11:45) I know every time I run, it's like, this is what I was supposed to do, but fuck that. (11:51) I don't want to be tall and lanky.

Kevin Palmieri

(11:55) I love getting lean. (11:56) I think that's, that's one of the reasons I think exercising is so hard because in the beginning you have to celebrate the process and then eventually you get to celebrate the progress. (12:06) That's why it's so hard.(12:07) I'm getting lean now. (12:08) And when I'm at the gym, I can see things and it's like, this is fucking awesome. (12:12) I don't want to, I'm like addicted to the gym now.(12:16) Nice. (12:16) I was up late last night. (12:18) I should not have gotten up at six.(12:19) I don't fucking care. (12:20) I'm going to the gym. (12:21) I'm going to the gym.(12:22) So let's talk about that. (12:24) You, what you're addicted to, you can choose. (12:27) I don't know.(12:28) Yeah. (12:29) I mean, I don't know. (12:30) I feel like that's a slippery slope.(12:31) I'm not addicted to it. (12:32) I'm just excited to go.

Alan Lazaros

(12:33) No, you are. (12:34) You are addicted to it. (12:35) This is all human beings.(12:37) People say, I have an addictive personality, dopamine. (12:40) What does it mean to be addicted? (12:41) Is there any human you've ever met who doesn't have an addiction?(12:44) If you really look? (12:45) Yeah, exactly.

Kevin Palmieri

(12:46) Let's have an honest conversation. (12:48) We're wired for that.

Alan Lazaros

(12:49) We're all addicted to something. (12:51) That's why I used to drink. (12:53) I loved it.(12:54) It turned off my future orientation. (12:56) It gave me a ton of dopamine. (12:57) I got to finally be present.(12:58) I didn't have to worry about my goals. (13:00) That's why it's dangerous because it's not constructive. (13:05) You, how do you make the meaningful future you want aligned with what feels good?(13:11) You can rewire your brain chemistry. (13:14) It's, it's proven. (13:14) The neuroscience has proven structural, chemical, and functional changes in the brain.(13:17) Kev, I've watched you rewire several times. (13:21) Nine years ago, you were fucked with love because you gave yourself unconsciously so much dopamine for, for things that were not constructive.

Kevin Palmieri

(13:30) I still look, it's hard, man, because I look back and it's like, yeah, those were good times, man.

Alan Lazaros

(13:37) You do?

Kevin Palmieri

(13:38) Yeah. (13:39) I don't know if I ever won't. (13:42) Good times, but only because you made it out.(13:45) You hated your life. (13:47) Yeah, but like, I didn't know I did at the time. (13:49) It's weird.(13:50) It's weird. (13:51) Okay. (13:52) That's, I think that's the thing is because a lot of, a lot of the things that brought me dopamine were negative, but they were more positive than the rest of my life.(14:01) Positive. (14:02) Not necessarily constructive, but that's why I look back on the times where like, dude, I didn't have that much responsibility. (14:08) I would just hang out and smoke weed and play NBA 2K.(14:11) It was fucking awesome. (14:13) That's what drinking did for you. (14:15) You don't want to be a fucking man child.(14:16) No, no, but that's what drinking did for you.

Alan Lazaros

(14:18) Yeah. (14:18) It allowed you to just like.

Kevin Palmieri

(14:19) It was awesome. (14:19) That's the problem. (14:20) I know.(14:21) I know. (14:21) That's exactly it. (14:22) I know.(14:23) It was awesome. (14:24) Until it takes your fucking life over.

Alan Lazaros

(14:27) Yeah. (14:27) It destroys it. (14:29) You either, you either align your dopamine with goal achievement toward meaningful future, toward a meaningful future, or you get it from hedonistic pleasures.

Kevin Palmieri

(14:42) I want to give a, I want to give a call out right now. (14:45) Okay. (14:46) This is a call out.(14:47) And again, I mean this not in a toxic way. (14:49) This is a constructive man to man. (14:51) If you're out there, man to woman, depending on how you do this, stop following fucking Instagram models.(14:56) Stop following people who don't wear clothes. (14:58) You are getting micro doses of dopamine every time you look. (15:02) And every time you look, the algorithm knows you're looking.(15:04) So it's going to show you more. (15:06) And it's a fucking loop. (15:07) I see people pop up all the time and you can see of your friends who follows this person.(15:13) It's like, this is a bad fucking idea.

Alan Lazaros

(15:16) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(15:16) You need to follow this person. (15:18) We. (15:18) Do I ever come up on those?(15:19) No, fuck no. (15:20) 60 years ago, Ellen sent me something, many things yesterday, but one of them was in 1987 or four, you could call Nintendo if you got stuck on a level and there was somebody just waiting to answer. (15:32) Hey, my name is Kevin.(15:34) Who am I speaking with? (15:35) Oh, I'm Ellen. (15:35) Ellen.(15:36) I'm stuck on level two at the Ocarina of time. (15:40) I can't seem to figure it out.

Alan Lazaros

(15:41) Do you have your 12 heart containers?

Kevin Palmieri

(15:43) I must have counted it wrong. (15:44) I must only have 11, but what was I saying? (15:51) Unfollow.(15:51) Yes. (15:52) You can, you can see people that somebody will pop up. (15:54) You can see who follows them.(15:55) It's like, dude, this is a really, really bad idea. (15:58) Oh, this is why I say this all the time. (16:01) 60 years ago, if you wanted to see somebody as attractive as you can see on social media right now, you had to watch a movie or buy a magazine.

Alan Lazaros

(16:09) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(16:09) You would never see these people in real life. (16:11) And I know social media isn't real life. (16:13) Now you open your phone and you see the most, I know the most extravagant things the world has to offer.(16:21) And you think it's hyper common and it is not hyper common.

Alan Lazaros

(16:26) It messes with your reference group. (16:28) It messes with your brain.

Kevin Palmieri

(16:29) That's why mental health is so bad right now.

Alan Lazaros

(16:32) And, and, and last thing, sorry.

Kevin Palmieri

(16:34) Um, I'm reading, listening to influence by Robert Cialdini and he's talking about the contrast bias of you, you, let's say there's an overpriced shitty home.

Alan Lazaros

(16:47) Yes. (16:47) Yes. (16:47) And then you take them to a really nice semi overpriced.

Kevin Palmieri

(16:50) They literally, there are real estate companies that used to, I don't know if they still do. (16:54) They literally hang on to a shit house. (16:56) They do.(16:58) They show you it and they say, so this is, this is 14 Maplewood. (17:02) Uh, here it is 650 thou. (17:05) Take a look.(17:06) I'll let you kind of, I'll let you feel it out. (17:08) You know, make it be home.

Alan Lazaros

(17:09) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(17:10) And it's a piece of shit.

Alan Lazaros

(17:11) Yeah. (17:12) It's not good.

Kevin Palmieri

(17:12) Then they bring you over to 14 Elm. (17:15) Yeah. (17:15) It's six 25 and it's beautiful.(17:19) And you're like six 25 that's compared to that shithole. (17:22) This is amazing. (17:22) And it's beautiful.(17:23) We're in, I'm in, where do I sign? (17:25) You can't the contrast, but that's happening on social media too. (17:28) You see sports illustrated models and then you go see your partner and they don't look like that because fucking nobody does.(17:34) And it looks like everybody, but it looks like everybody does.

Alan Lazaros

(17:37) It's all fucked. (17:38) It is the most messed up quick takeaway. (17:41) We got to get out of here.(17:42) Sorry. (17:42) I took the whole episode. (17:43) Dude, you didn't, you didn't brother.(17:44) I did the whole first thing. (17:46) Uh, one of the reasons I have all my clients tracking metrics and habits every day. (17:54) Shout out to Nina 90 days in a row.(17:57) Strong work, Nina. (17:58) Unbelievable. (17:59) This is the first time I've ever been able to exercise this long crushing it.(18:02) Yeah. (18:03) Crushing it. (18:03) Unbelievable.(18:04) Dopamine, dopamine, get dopamine from exercise. (18:08) Don't get it from all that other shit you're talking about. (18:10) Yeah.(18:11) Um, if anyone flashes any stuff on their social media, I will be unfollowing you immediately just for this reason. (18:17) Uh, the reason I have people track metrics and habits, my final takeaway is because it rewires your dopamine for the metric. (18:27) When you track an exercise streak, you get dopamine.(18:30) When you get to check it each day, if you get a wall calendar and you're like, done, check, check, check, give your, that's why I have my clients put the goose egg, they put zeros and ones for habits. (18:40) You've got to put the zero. (18:42) A lot of people skip the zeros because they don't want us.(18:44) And I'm like, no, I need you to take the pain, be a grown ass adult, put the fucking zero. (18:50) If you took an L own it. (18:52) And that's so next time you were less likely to do that.

Kevin Palmieri

(18:55) If you're looking for somebody to help you track stuff and figure out the habits and reverse engineer, all that stuff, Alan is your guy. (19:00) If you're looking for a group of amazing people focused on getting to the next level, next level of nation, our private Facebook group, we are rebuilding it and redesigning it. (19:07) So there will be some different content in there that we don't really post or talk about anywhere else.(19:11) We want it to be a deeper dive into NLU. (19:13) So keep your eyes peeled for that. (19:15) As always, we love you.(19:15) We appreciate you grateful for each or every one of you. (19:18) And if you are as committed as you say you are to getting to the next level, tune in tomorrow. (19:21) Cause we'll be here every single day to help you get there.(19:23) Keep leveling up to reach your full potential next elimination. (19:27) Thanks for joining us for another episode of next level university. (19:31) We love connecting with the next level family.

Alan Lazaros

(19:34) We mean it when we say family, if you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. (19:39) Everything you need to get a hold of us is in the show notes. (19:43) Thank you again.(19:44) And we will talk to you tomorrow.