Can You Be Pessimistic And Win? (2403)

In today’s episode of Next Level University, hosts Kevin Palmieri and Alan take a hard look at the difference between optimism, pessimism, and accurate thinking. They break down why belief alone is not enough, and why real growth comes from honest self-awareness, better preparation, and the courage to face feedback. Drawing from their own experiences, coaching work, and years of helping people improve, Kevin and Alan show how mindset can either move you forward or quietly hold you back.

This episode is for anyone who wants to stop relying on hope alone and start building real confidence through action, clarity, and consistency. Listen closely and see whether your mindset is helping you win or keeping you comfortable.

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For more information, check out our website and socials using the links below. 👇

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Show notes:
(3:30) Why optimism often wins in the long term
(6:13) Optimism, pessimism, and reality defined
(11:47) When optimism becomes a cover for low effort
(14:40) The levels of self-belief and performance
(23:24) Aim too high or aim too low
(31:25) Failure is not always an identity problem
(34:12) Why “already enough” can hurt growth
(36:22) Accurate feedback matters more than feelings
(42:18) Success principles matter more than the vehicle
(51:57) Outro

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Transcript

Kevin Palmieri

(0:00) I would definitely say in the past I was very pessimistic. (0:04) I had very low belief in what was possible. (0:06) I had very low belief in what other people could do.(0:08) I had very low belief in myself. (0:11) I assumed everything was going to go worse than it ended up going, and I also still believe that is the fucking way. (0:21) Optimism is a belief in something you can't see yet, which is necessary to achieve your goals and dreams.(0:29) However, I do believe a lot of people take that way too far. (0:33) Welcome to Next Level University. (0:36) I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri.(0:38) And I'm your co-host, Alan Lazarus. (0:41) At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers. (0:48) Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health, and wealth.(0:54) We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits, and defining your own unique version of success. (1:10) Self-improvement, in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free. (1:16) Welcome to Next Level University.(1:22) Next Level Nation today for episode number 2403, Can You Be Pessimistic And Win? (1:30) The quote that comes to mind, the advice that comes to mind is, live your life as if you're already the type of person you aspire to be. (1:40) And I like, I understand, I love the baseline thought process of, like, show up as a confident person.(1:46) Assume people are going to say, yes, awesome. (1:49) Yes, awesome. (1:50) And I think that constructive anxiety is not a bad thing.(1:56) I think it's a good thing. (1:58) As long as you do the thing. (2:00) As long as you do the activity.(2:02) As long as you practice the behavior. (2:03) As long as you take the action. (2:05) In the beginning, I was extremely pessimistic.(2:07) I assumed nothing would ever work. (2:09) I assumed every interview I did was going to be garbage. (2:11) I assumed people would never want to come to anything we did.(2:14) And some of those things I was fucking right about. (2:19) For sure. (2:20) And many of those things I was also wrong about.(2:23) You have reached a level of success that is beyond what you ever thought would happen. (2:32) I, I had a moment during Next Level Live where I was like, this is fucking weird. (2:39) This whole thing.(2:40) Hosting this event at my house. (2:42) I'm driving Amy to the airport. (2:44) It's, this is all incredibly strange to me.(2:47) My wife's coming home with a bunch of snacks for the squad where, you know, like it was just very strange. (2:53) Those donuts were so legit. (2:55) They were so legit.(2:57) It was part of my refeed after my weigh-in. (2:58) I'm still dieting, unfortunately. (3:00) I ate the entire giant chocolate one.(3:01) Oh, it's so good. (3:02) Right after my five mile run. (3:04) Right after weigh-in.(3:05) It was the best. (3:06) With a giant protein shake. (3:07) It was awesome.(3:08) So, the three beliefs we talked about at Next Level Live. (3:15) Believe it's possible, possible for you, and it'll be worth it. (3:20) You always talk about how you believe that it'll be worth it.(3:23) My point, though, is you've reached a level of success that you struggled to believe was possible. (3:30) And while you've been right, so this is what the studies show. (3:33) The studies show that optimism wins long term, assuming you keep going.(3:41) Pessimists tend to be more accurate in the short term. (3:45) And this is exactly what this is. (3:47) I was optimistic.(3:48) I was overly optimistic in the beginning. (3:51) And I was more accurate with what was possible long term, but less accurate with what was possible short term. (3:59) That quote of we drastically overestimate what we can accomplish in a day and underestimate what we can accomplish in a decade.(4:09) If I'm focused on the decade and you're focused on the day, you're going to be more accurate about the day, and I'm going to be more accurate about the decade. (4:18) But the day leads to the fucking decade. (4:20) So not to mention, there's the other side of this that we haven't gotten to yet.(4:26) We're still only 36 and 35. (4:28) So 36 and 37? (4:29) 36 and 37.(4:30) And so we're not on the other end of the bow tie. (4:34) And the bow tie is a concept where I looked this up. (4:39) So of the 24 million millionaires in the United States, 80% of them are 50 or older.(4:46) The lessons you learn in your teens and 20s compound. (4:52) So all of that try, fail, try again, fail, try, fail, try again, fail. (4:56) I would love to see the stats on what is the average amount of time it takes to start in a given industry and to become top 1%.(5:08) I would love to see that. (5:09) What's your guess? (5:11) At least a decade.(5:12) Who's the one you used in your presentation? (5:15) Olivia Deen?

Alan Lazaros

(5:17) Olivia Deen.

Kevin Palmieri

(5:17) It was essentially like 10 years between each inflection point in her career. (5:24) So slash life. (5:25) The woman in Divergent.(5:26) It was like, she was like 28 years or something crazy. (5:30) I think at least 18 years. (5:32) So she was acting as a kid.(5:34) Yeah. (5:34) I think that's fairly common. (5:35) Like Ryan Gosling was in, I'm pretty sure it was Ryan Gosling.(5:38) He was in Disney's, whatever their, the kid's acting school is. (5:44) Like he was on commercials when he was super young and he's been doing this since Tiger Woods had a fucking golf club in his hand when he was four. (5:52) Olivia Deen was taking a musical, music lessons at eight or what?(5:57) No. (5:58) Uh, I don't know if she was, she knew she wanted to, yeah. (6:02) Be a musician at eight.(6:04) So we're still only on year 11 for me, nine for you technically. (6:09) Yeah. (6:10) Obviously it's not exact because it's not like we didn't learn anything prior to that.(6:13) But in this space, the podcasting, personal development, self-improvement space, what's the difference between pessimism, optimism, and reality? (6:24) Reality is accurate. (6:26) Optimism is overly positive and pessimism is overly negative.(6:33) And how, how do you know? (6:35) I think that's the hard thing is like, to your point, optimism, you don't know until after. (6:41) Optimism works in time.(6:43) Yeah. (6:44) Because of the compound effect of learning. (6:47) Right.(6:47) I mean, this is the thing that pisses me off and it's not anything against anyone listening or you it's, it's like the Mac was a massive failure and, and eventually it was the iMac when it finally took off. (7:04) The iPod didn't take off for like the first three years until iTunes came. (7:08) Right.(7:09) And the iPhone couldn't have happened if the iPod didn't. (7:12) So that's the thing that I'm always thinking about. (7:15) I don't, what you did with, what the fuck is her name?(7:18) I'm sorry. (7:18) Something Dean, Olivia Dean, Olivia Dean. (7:21) Okay.(7:21) So what, what you did in that presentation with Olivia Dean is what I've always tried to articulate, but struggle to my way of doing it is the $1 becomes 84 million in 50 years. (7:33) And you did it in a way that people like, Oh, cause you had an iceberg bottom and top. (7:37) And you went through all the steps.(7:38) Like in 2007, she started taking, she was born in 99 in 2007. (7:43) She started taking musical lessons in 2015. (7:47) She got accepted to some school.(7:49) Then she was picked up by a band and whatever, you know, 2017. (7:54) And then she released her first single, first album in 2019. (7:58) And it flopped.(7:59) It didn't flop, but it did. (8:01) Yeah. (8:01) Go.(8:02) And now at the age of 28, 27, she won best new artist at the Grammys. (8:10) New artist. (8:11) She's been making music since she was fucking 15 or whatever.(8:15) So that was the thing that blew my mind is for the first time ever, I was like new best new artist. (8:21) You're not new. (8:23) Yeah.(8:23) But that's so, so, and again, I'm glad that we're talking about this because that's how I always thought my thesis in this. (8:30) And please don't villainize me. (8:32) I'm going to stop saying that.(8:32) I hope you don't. (8:34) If you do, you do. (8:35) I'm trying to make a point with this.(8:36) I think there are some people that should be optimistic. (8:40) I think you should, you should be, you're supposed to be optimistic because I think that's closer to your wiring and it's closer. (8:49) Now, where this starts again, I do not want to take away from your, your accomplishments in the beginning.(8:56) I don't know if you were more or less optimistic than me. (8:59) I don't know. (9:00) But as the proof stacked up, I said, I was going to date this girl.(9:03) I did this girl. (9:04) I said, I was going to do this. (9:05) It makes sense where maybe in your mid twenties, you were like, ah, of course I can do this thing where everything I did was a fucking failure.(9:16) Everything I did. (9:17) I'm going to go apply. (9:19) Of course, I'm going to get this warehouse job for $13 an hour.(9:22) Nope. (9:23) No fucking callback. (9:24) Nothing.(9:25) But here's the thing. (9:26) I applied to a hundred jobs. (9:29) I know.(9:29) And I only got, you know, seven of them.

Alan Lazaros

(9:31) I know. (9:32) I understand.

Kevin Palmieri

(9:32) So I don't want to make it about this. (9:34) This is the identity piece. (9:35) No, but this is good.(9:36) You're not taking away from me. (9:37) I don't care about any of that. (9:38) That's the goal.(9:39) You know, I don't want to, I don't want to, I care about the listeners and this concept in this conversation, which is, this is the argument we need to have. (9:46) This is the debate we need to have. (9:49) Fixed mindset, growth mindset, identity.(9:52) You didn't think it would work out, applied to one job and then got proof that it didn't work out, which verified your belief. (10:00) I apply to a hundred jobs. (10:02) Of course, I'm going to get one of them.(10:03) I, I, and, and what if I was always doing that? (10:09) Because what if I, this is messed up, challenging, insert correct adjective here because of the time perspective in the short term, you were accurate. (10:29) You were more accurate every time in the short term, but I was more accurate in the long term.(10:34) But I'm assuming that most people don't have your time perspective. (10:37) I know. (10:38) But so I don't know what they did.(10:40) They would. (10:41) Well, if my, or I know, but lessons, but if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a bicycle, you know, like she, that's, you know, what is your truth about this though? (10:49) Like, again, I don't necessarily want to always talk about like the Michael Phelps, Serena Williams, Tom Brady, Michael Jordan, all that stuff.(10:58) But I, I think it's a good metaphor, but it's also not because those are extreme examples. (11:02) But like Tom Brady was awful in high school, not awful, but like, yeah, terrible. (11:07) You know, he was backup quarterback on a team that went, Oh, and eight, you know, his career better than us.(11:12) So he, I know it all by heart, the whole thing. (11:14) And the reason why is because I think he's the best example of the compound effect, regardless of what you think of him as a human being. (11:22) He, he was, Oh, and eight backup quarterback in high school.(11:27) Then he was backup quarterback in college the entire time until the last year. (11:34) And then he was backup quarterback in the NFL 199th draft pick sixth round. (11:40) And then he got a shot that then he became over time, the greatest quarterback of all time, but the entire 20 year career, everyone doubted like, Oh, he's washed up.(11:52) He's too old. (11:53) Like people were doubting him the entire time. (11:55) So it's just, it's just a little bit scary to start doubting yourself early, but it's even, it's also scary to like, believe in something that is actually delusional.(12:06) That's the hard thing is I'm willing to bet. (12:09) Yeah. (12:10) Out of a hundred people, 99 of them would end up working at whatever for sure.(12:17) How many people have said, I'm going to be the best quarterback ever of all time? (12:22) I don't even know though. (12:23) That's the thing.(12:23) I don't know. (12:24) I would have to venture to guess like most of the people that make it to the NFL probably think they're, they're probably trying to be the best, but I coached an NFL player who kind of stumbled upon it. (12:36) So I don't know.(12:36) It's fair. (12:37) It's fair. (12:37) And it's like, yo, if you, the hard tribe, can you imagine if you dialed it in?(12:43) Like the hard part is, okay, let's take a hundred people. (12:50) Yeah. (12:51) Nice.(12:51) Love it. (12:51) Let's say for this example, none of these 100 people are going to accomplish their goals. (12:57) None of them.(12:58) Okay. (13:01) Who would you bet on figuring it out now? (13:04) Cause it is the And this, maybe they don't accomplish their goals, but they accomplish more than if they don't believe at all.(13:15) I think, I think optimists often rely on their talent. (13:21) Like they just think it's going to, yeah, whatever. (13:24) Like I'll just keep doing it.(13:25) And you and I talked anonymously about someone recently who's overly optimistic. (13:29) Can we use that person? (13:31) Like describe what you really think about this person anonymously.(13:37) We talked about them off air. (13:39) This is common. (13:41) This is common.(13:41) This is the thing I'm afraid of happening. (13:43) Agreed. (13:43) And I didn't realize how much this happens.(13:45) This happens all the time. (13:47) This is my point. (13:48) If you're going to fucking miss, I would rather you think you're not enough because then you'll put in more work to actually accomplish it.(13:54) Rather than saying, I'm going to make it by default. (13:56) I'm going to go get this thing and I'm going to make it by default because I'm optimistic. (14:00) Optimism is a fucking cloak for you not putting in the actual amount of effort that needs to happen in order to accomplish the goal.(14:07) Except it's not sometimes. (14:09) Sometimes. (14:10) And on the pessimistic side too, same thing.(14:14) Like it does, just because you don't think you can do it doesn't mean you're going to find a way to do it. (14:17) Right. (14:18) It's, that's not the way it works on either end.(14:20) I was on a podcast two days ago. (14:24) No, yesterday? (14:26) Today's Tuesday?(14:28) Yeah. (14:28) Yesterday. (14:30) And his name's Leland.(14:33) And I tried to explain this and I want to try to do it again better this time. (14:39) Okay. (14:40) Level one is I don't believe in myself because I don't have much experience.(14:46) I'm young. (14:49) So I don't believe in myself, but I'm going to give it a shot. (14:52) Maybe I'm pessimistic.(14:53) Okay. (14:53) Level one is you're pessimistic, but willing to give it a shot and think of these as different people. (14:59) Okay.(14:59) Level two is I'm optimistic and I give it a shot and I get humbled. (15:08) Okay. (15:09) Level three is I don't think I'm good enough.(15:20) And so I put in more work to get better. (15:23) I get the right coaches, the right mentors, put in the extra work. (15:27) Brandon is a good example of this.(15:28) Brandon Lowe, shout out to you brother. (15:29) I'm actually on with him later today. (15:31) He's on the team and he was little, he was five, four, five, five, maybe, I don't know, one of the two, but he was like the smallest running back freaking, not ever, but, and he was awesome.(15:43) But he had to put in the work that these other, like, he talked to me about a decathlete who he said was like a freak. (15:52) The dude would win at discus and shot put and the two mile. (15:57) And it was just like, I don't understand.(16:00) And how Brandon never had that. (16:02) Okay. (16:02) So, so level three, so level one is you're pessimistic, but you give it a shot.(16:05) Level two is you're optimistic. (16:07) You get humble pie. (16:07) Level three is you, you don't think you're that great.(16:10) So you put in the extra work. (16:12) Level four is, and this is where it starts getting weird. (16:16) Please, please.(16:16) Level four is, you know, you're gifted and you rest on fucking talent. (16:23) I was level four when I was very young. (16:26) And I fucking hated it.(16:28) I I'm so upset with myself that I did that. (16:32) Level five is I know that I'm gifted and I don't care anymore. (16:39) I need to reach my potential.(16:43) Level six is I'm so gifted and so hardworking that I actually am socially afraid of being so different that I, I don't even want to admit that I'm gifted. (16:56) I don't even want anyone to know that I'm gifted and then whatever. (17:00) I don't even level on that now, but there's eventually an acceptance where you get to this place where you know that you're great and you want to be the best on earth.(17:16) And when I'm doing my miles for mindset workouts with the Serena Williams, Michael Jordans, the Kobe Bryant's, the, the Michael Phelps, all that, I, I am realizing that these people somehow knew that they could be the best. (17:32) And they all have times in their past where they thought they were the best and then got humbled. (17:37) Like Michael Jordan was cut from his team.(17:40) Michael Phelps didn't win the, in 2008, he won a bunch, but then he, he didn't come back and like be as good. (17:46) They all had these like humble pie moments where they had to face the reality. (17:50) Tom Brady got injured in 2008 and, and like left the game.(17:54) Michael Jordan went and played baseball and realized he was awful. (17:57) You know, like, and, and that to me is when they reignited the love and the passion. (18:03) And, and I know that this is, doesn't apply to everybody, but we need to figure out where everyone's at with this because, because, um, I would rather bet on someone who says I'm not that great, but I'm going to try to get better than someone who already thinks they're great, except for the people who actually are.(18:23) Yes, but that's just statistically not that many, but that's the thing. (18:27) Like how many, and how do you know, dude, that has been fascinating for me. (18:32) There are certain, the amount of people who have said they want to be a billionaire to me is, is dozens, if not hundreds, I'm not even joking.(18:39) And you said, I give people permission to dream big, whatever. (18:42) But I also realized they knew I was naive. (18:44) So they knew I'd actually buy their horseshit.(18:46) The truth is, I don't believe in people at all anymore. (18:49) When it comes to talk, I only believe in follow through. (18:53) And I don't, I I'm become very pessimistic in terms of my belief in what people say, because I don't say things without at least at the time intending to do it.(19:03) And I might change my mind, but now that I realize other people really do just talk, I didn't realize that. (19:10) So everyone has to figure out where they are, like, which one is your home? (19:16) Because if, if someone comes to me and says, they're great, I automatically now assume that they're not.(19:21) But there's a few people who actually are, and they actually have to admit it. (19:25) It's like the, it's like you saying, well, I'm not allowed to say I'm humble. (19:29) What if you're just self-aware enough to know you actually fucking are?(19:33) Can't say the most humble person in the world and be it. (19:36) That's what they say. (19:37) That's the paradox.(19:38) Just like you can't say you're great and be great. (19:42) No, you can. (19:44) Yeah.(19:44) But a lot of people who say they're great really aren't because it's a mask for insecurity. (19:49) Yeah. (19:50) Yeah.(19:50) I think the people that are really great when people say you're great, you say, no, you, you give it to somebody else. (19:57) Except for the people who learned to stop doing that. (20:00) I don't know.(20:00) Yeah. (20:00) I don't know. (20:01) I feel like I've seen, I've seen interviews with Tom Brady where he's like, oh, we had a really good team.(20:05) And we, it's like, Tom, come on, come on, brother. (20:07) You've had like three hall of fame careers. (20:10) Like you've, if you, I watched a doc, a small documentary.(20:13) If you break his career up into three, they're all hollow hall of fame careers. (20:17) All three of them. (20:19) I don't know how it was like seven years or whatever, but yeah, but that's the thing that's, that's the thing that's wonky about this is.(20:27) I think what happens is people are told to be optimistic when they're not naturally optimistic. (20:33) This is what I said to Alan. (20:34) I said, the people that are the most optimistic should be the people that are the most competent because you can take the fucking L's that come with being that optimistic where I was not, I didn't have the belief to take those L's.(20:50) So for on the day to day, I assumed everything. (20:52) I still think I fucking suck. (20:54) I'm still pessimistic for sure.(20:57) Isn't that, doesn't that mean that you need to level up? (21:01) No, I think it's, that means I'm productively paranoid. (21:03) Yeah, but there has to be a, like still, where did you start?(21:08) Let's do the levels with you. (21:09) Like you started with, I don't believe in myself and I'm pessimistic for sure. (21:14) You can't keep operating with that same paradigm.(21:17) You have to now realize, okay, that's my tendency. (21:21) I'm going to purposely overshoot a bit. (21:25) I try to over, I try to overshoot with delivery, not me.(21:29) We had a client that came back. (21:31) I think they might be listening. (21:33) Shout out to you if you're listening.(21:34) And that was really good for me. (21:37) So they, we produced their podcast for a while. (21:39) They went and tried somebody else and they came back.(21:42) They said, I want to come home. (21:43) I was like, oh my God, that's the freaking best thing I've ever heard in my life. (21:46) Sweetest human.(21:47) Sweetest. (21:48) Begin with a P. (21:49) Yes.(21:49) Yeah. (21:49) They reached out. (21:51) Nice.(21:51) I had an email exchange with them. (21:53) Nice. (21:53) Nice.(21:53) Nice. (21:54) Huge fan. (21:54) Huge fan of this person.(21:56) That for me was really good because it's like, okay, all of this paranoia and all of this sleep I lose, I think of my clients before I go to bed, it's God, fuck, I got to do this for this person. (22:05) I'm going to make sure that gets done. (22:08) Dude, I know people that are on the opposite where they're like, I'm going to do the bare minimum and you should be happy.(22:17) You have the opportunity to work with me and I am going to fucking work circles. (22:20) You think you're not going to beat me? (22:22) There's no way you beat me.(22:23) No way. (22:24) But that's exactly it. (22:25) What about I do the same thing though?(22:28) That's because you're obsessed with that. (22:31) You're one thing, which is coaching and you're obsessed with helping people to me. (22:38) Okay.(22:39) Because make this simple real quick, real quick, because that helps you get to your potential. (22:44) Yes. (22:45) That helps me feel enough.(22:50) It helps me bring certainty. (22:51) It makes me feel good about, for me, pessimism was always an extra leg of preparation. (22:59) That was always that.(23:00) But it was also sometimes an excuse not to fucking try. (23:04) We're missing the cons of these. (23:06) Oh, no, no, I'm not.(23:07) There's a tons of cons. (23:09) There's tons. (23:10) Optimism, what's the con?(23:11) You just fail more and you get embarrassed more. (23:14) Yeah, but you think eventually it's just going to happen. (23:19) I think the point of optimism is to eventually become less naive.(23:24) Aim too high, get humble pie, aim too low, you don't grow. (23:27) Your risk with being a pessimist is you aim too low and don't grow. (23:33) My optimism is aim too high and you get humble pie, which has happened so many times.(23:38) Yeah, but it's only humble pie if you have the belief. (23:41) What is it if you don't? (23:44) If somebody is pessimistic and they get convinced to be optimistic, I'm telling you it's setting them up for failure.(23:50) I'm convinced. (23:50) Okay, but explain that. (23:51) I am with you.(23:52) I'm not denying that. (23:53) And that's what I was doing unintentionally at times. (23:57) Because I think it's like, oh, you're not connected to anything?(24:01) You don't believe in anything? (24:02) Oh, my God. (24:03) You need to go read The Secret and then you'll understand manifestation and law of attraction.(24:08) And you feel really good and you feel like you're in control until life doesn't work out. (24:13) And then you start to realize, I don't have the fucking tools to actually fix this problem. (24:16) I think it's the same where it's like, be optimistic, be optimistic, everything's going to work, show up as the type of version.(24:24) Yes, I love that in theory. (24:26) But in practice, if you don't have the grit and the thick skin and the perseverance to show up after you get humble pie, it's not humble pie. (24:37) The only way to develop those things is through getting humble pie.(24:40) So what you're saying is, what we're really saying is you need to set a level one goal if you have level one belief. (24:47) But if you have level one belief, and you're around someone who has level 10, and they convince you you're better than you are, and you shoot for level six, you're going to get eaten. (24:55) Oh, you're fucked.(24:56) Yeah. (24:57) Okay. (24:57) And I did that to you?(24:59) No, because I never, I never let that get in my head. (25:03) Never? (25:05) A couple times.(25:07) A couple times. (25:08) A couple times. (25:09) And then what happened?(25:11) Really, really try to go, go. (25:12) I want to know what that was like for you to go from that big of a balloon to like fully deflated. (25:18) Well, because that's a big, you know, you fall way farther when everyone's bubbles get popped, but some of the bigger bubbles hurt more, right?(25:27) But I never, dude, you would say like, Kev, I don't really think you need to prep that much or whatever. (25:31) Dude, fuck you. (25:32) You don't need to prep that much, but I do.(25:33) But I was right one time when you had all the notebooks for Evan, and it's like, dude, you can go without a notebook. (25:39) We're past that level. (25:40) Yeah, but I also listened that time because I kind of felt ready.(25:45) Oh, okay. (25:46) Okay. (25:47) So I don't know.(25:48) What was the question? (25:49) Sorry. (25:49) I want to get that point out.(25:50) I want to know what it feels like to have someone convince you to shoot for level eight and then get level eight failure when you're actually at level two of belief. (25:59) So that's a six delta. (26:02) That's a big fall.(26:03) It feels invalidating because it's like, dude, you don't fucking get it. (26:08) I know if this goes horribly wrong, you're just going to go home, get better, and then you'll just do it again tomorrow. (26:14) I may never do this again if this goes horribly wrong, but I might fucking quit.(26:18) Let's talk about it. (26:18) Let's go vulnerable. (26:20) I'm actually curious.(26:21) I'm not because I don't believe I can go deeper than that though, because you don't believe you can. (26:27) What? (26:31) I don't have enough.(26:32) And this is past Kev. (26:33) Like now it's different, but I don't believe enough in me. (26:37) I don't think I can actually do what you're saying, even with enough time.(26:41) I don't think I'm going to do it for long enough to actually ignite the compound effects because I'm going to take so many fucking L's. (26:47) But, but, uh, okay. (26:49) You have always been more concerned with embarrassment than me.(26:52) For sure. (26:53) Okay. (26:54) I think I want to understand why.(26:57) Like I embarrassment hurts me too. (27:00) Trust me. (27:00) Being laughed off stage that one time was really bad for me.(27:03) That was an ego death. (27:04) That was, that was bad. (27:05) Yeah.(27:05) But I was like, really, I felt really disrespected. (27:07) That was those guys. (27:08) I didn't, I didn't know that.(27:10) We didn't talk about that. (27:12) We laughed in the car, but that, that was definitely backstage. (27:14) When Matt came to see me, I was, I was in it for sure.(27:17) Oh, that's questioning my existence. (27:20) Well, there's been several times where you've been, you and I, no, no, this one was really, actually the judges were genuinely laughing because of the, I didn't see you, you and I weren't as close as we are. (27:31) So I didn't know what was going on in turn.(27:32) Yeah. (27:33) The first time was tough, but not that big of a deal. (27:35) I still placed and I was okay.(27:37) And I was still pretty lean. (27:38) The second, the third time I really thought I'd win because I was coming off a win and I wasn't even close. (27:43) I was fourth.(27:44) Right. (27:44) And, and I came off of winning the whole fucking the year before. (27:48) So for me, that was a big fall.

Alan Lazaros

(27:49) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(27:50) And I also at the time was wildly unhappy in my relationship. (27:54) Yeah. (27:55) So that's true.(27:55) That, that was all I had was like that, that dream, you know, my dreams keep me alive when I'm in the dark. (28:00) And, but, but I would say it went from like a, a 10. (28:08) I was arrogant at that third show for sure.(28:11) I thought I'd win when I, when I wasn't going to win. (28:13) Okay. (28:14) Yeah.(28:14) And I didn't prep enough and that's fine. (28:15) I still got fourth. (28:16) It's not like I got stomped, but I didn't win.(28:19) Okay. (28:19) I went from like level 10 belief to like level six. (28:25) Uh, I, so I fell for four levels for, uh, yeah, levels I guess.(28:31) So it was pretty, that, that's a big Delta 10 to four is a, is a hell of a, uh, 10 to six is a hell of a fall. (28:37) I think the real thing is a 10 to a two is trauma traumatic. (28:42) I don't think when we took that L with that training, was that like going from a 10 to a two?(28:46) No. (28:46) Cause I knew that was going to happen. (28:47) And cause it was me.(28:49) It was you, but I knew that was going to happen. (28:52) It wouldn't have happened. (28:53) It wouldn't have happened, but we wouldn't have gotten the lesson.(28:57) I know, but then we could have got a different lesson. (28:59) I would've been okay with a different lesson. (29:00) No, no, no.(29:01) But there's no other way to learn that lesson. (29:03) My lesson, brother, my lessons, not the same as yours. (29:06) That's the difference.(29:08) I would have prepped.

Alan Lazaros

(29:09) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(29:10) I prepped our, I didn't do the full prep. (29:12) I don't want to take full credit. (29:13) It was my responsibility to prep the speech.(29:15) It was your responsibility. (29:16) You didn't even prep the training. (29:18) You didn't do anything.(29:19) We just showed up 25 slides, baby. (29:21) Yeah. (29:22) It's one of them.(29:22) He just had the fucking words on them. (29:24) That was it. (29:25) I knew we were fucked for sure.(29:28) I dude, I was 25 impact points of effective communication. (29:31) That's good stuff. (29:31) It is good stuff.(29:32) It is. (29:34) But that may do, maybe that's a takeaway for me. (29:37) Anytime you, anytime I call you dude, you know, I'm in it.(29:40) Our lessons were never supposed to be the same. (29:42) Agreed. (29:43) And I got so many lessons that you got that I never would've got.(29:49) And vice versa. (29:50) And vice versa. (29:51) But that lesson for me under prep, no brother, I don't need that fucking lesson.(29:55) That's my deepest fear. (29:57) That's my, I'm not, no, I don't want that lesson. (29:59) Well, now you need that lesson after the next level live.(30:01) I'm kidding. (30:02) You're over there on the stairs doing the presentation. (30:04) Yeah, I was, I was joking, but that's that I do want to know what it felt like, what it feels like to take that huge L because I, I felt hurt after when I take huge Ls, I hurt too.(30:16) I just don't, I don't think it's the same. (30:18) It makes me think, Oh yeah, fuck you were right. (30:22) You were right the whole time.(30:23) What do you mean? (30:23) The whole fucking time?

Alan Lazaros

(30:24) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(30:24) It makes you feel not good enough. (30:26) Yeah. (30:26) You can't do that's what it is.(30:27) I, for me it's, Oh, I can't, I needed to prep and they definitely don't care about effective communication as much as I thought. (30:35) For me, that's always the lesson is, yeah, Alan, you need to learn how to speak more effectively and all of that. (30:43) But really they just don't actually care about effective communication.(30:46) That was my main lesson. (30:47) And that is, I think the truth. (30:48) They don't, they don't mind.(30:50) It is always much. (30:51) I should be able to make them care. (30:54) It's me.(30:55) I don't know if I believe that anymore. (30:56) I used to, but now I don't, I try not that less. (31:00) I try not to like get people to care about things that they don't care about anymore.(31:04) But you and I are driving to five because I used to always do that. (31:08) And I've learned over time, you can't drag someone up a Hill. (31:10) You can be so good that they're intrigued.(31:15) You can still create breakthroughs, but I'm not going to suddenly make that room care about the 25 impact points of effective communication. (31:23) Certainly not in one speech. (31:25) That's underprepped, but I want to understand from you before we go here for me, my takeaway isn't, I'm not good enough.(31:35) My takeaway is I had the wrong approach. (31:40) Mine is, that's why it affects me. (31:42) The wrong person.(31:44) It's like, I'm the wrong person. (31:46) The big, I would say the biggest L I've taken, I've taken many an L, but the biggest one, like the one where you could just compartmentalize it and zoom in second speech showed up cocky. (31:55) I had five flash cards.(31:56) Like this is a true fucking story. (31:58) And we joke about it. (31:58) Now this was fucking devastating.(32:01) I went through, I ripped through my five flashcards in like 10 minutes and I think I had 45 minutes and I was like, Oh my God, I'm fucked. (32:08) Like this is my deepest fear. (32:10) So one kid in the audience wanted to be a speaker.(32:13) I said, come on up brother. (32:14) The Mike's warm. (32:15) I got you.(32:15) Let's see what you got, baby. (32:17) I'll judge you. (32:18) And then at some point I just brought a couple of kids up to have a pushup competition, panic move.

Alan Lazaros

(32:22) I'm in shape.

Kevin Palmieri

(32:23) I can hammer out a bunch of these. (32:24) So your story to yourself and, and again, not making it wrong is that I'm not good enough. (32:29) Instead of you just had a terrible approach.(32:32) We dressed to the nines, fly flat, five flashcards. (32:35) It's not that. (32:36) So yeah.(32:36) What if you've been telling yourself the wrong stories, but for some things like dude, trying to, you know, statistically speaking, we've also talked about my trying to approach two women and, and win them over. (32:50) Like statistically speaking, the dude who's five foot five, that probably ain't going to work the same as maybe six foot. (32:55) No, it's definitely not.(32:57) Am I pet? (32:58) I was overly optimistic, but I wasn't set up from an ego perspective to handle that. (33:03) That was fucking, just imagine me walking, hammered, walking back to my tent by myself in the pouring rain.(33:10) Just like, fuck my life. (33:14) Fuck my life. (33:15) That was like, that was my other deepest fear.(33:18) Just, Oh my God, just right to me. (33:22) Brutal. (33:22) That what does that mean?(33:24) My approach is off. (33:25) No, that means circumstantially that may not be it for me. (33:29) Yeah.(33:30) How do you know? (33:31) Some things are you, I know. (33:34) Nice.(33:35) Nice. (33:35) You go, you go out to dinner and you, you break like you just say the dumbest shit ever. (33:41) He's just say some stupid joke and everybody hates you.(33:44) It's like, yeah, you could blame everybody else, but you're also dumb for saying that you shouldn't have fucking said that.

Alan Lazaros

(33:49) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(33:49) Like there has to be some level of ownership, but yeah, I tend to probably over own, but I think that the majority of people when they fail, they internalize it as they are not good enough instead of your approach was suboptimal and you're not good enough yet. (34:12) And next level live, I kept saying that you're already good enough stuff I actually think is detrimental. (34:17) And here's why, if you're, if your life sucks and you're already enough, what do you do?(34:26) Nothing you can do. (34:27) I think that's not empowering. (34:29) I think what's more empowering is, Hey, you suck at finances.(34:32) You suck at fitness. (34:35) You suck at relationships and that's okay. (34:38) You can work on it.(34:39) And when you work on it, your whole life will get better. (34:42) That's so much more empowering than you're already enough. (34:47) Well, then why does my life blow?(34:49) Your life does suck because of your terrible choices. (34:52) I tried to say this at Excel alive to have people always talk about the present. (34:59) I say this all the time.(35:00) It's the present is based on the past. (35:03) All of your, your life is so much better. (35:05) Now you're the best example of this.(35:07) Your life sucked. (35:10) And, and it sucked because you had the wrong thinking. (35:15) You had the wrong mindset.(35:16) You had the wrong identity. (35:17) You had the wrong ideas. (35:19) You had terrible, you weren't that skillful.(35:20) Like you didn't understand success. (35:22) You didn't know what to do. (35:23) You had bad financial habits.(35:26) There are no like wildly fulfilled toddlers who have like bank accounts. (35:32) And I'm not trying to call, I'm sorry. (35:33) I didn't mean to call you a toddler.(35:34) But like the point is, is we've all, we all know an adult toddler. (35:38) All of us think of, think of the, think of the adult who's 40 and they're like a giant toddler. (35:45) They're not fulfilled and successful.(35:50) My point of this is you're right. (35:53) Some people are inadequate and some people can become more and more adequate. (36:02) Everyone can become more and more adequate, but not everyone's going to be Michael Phelps.(36:05) That's why this is, and I just use Michael Phelps, but it could be anyone, whatever, whoever's at the top of your industry. (36:10) That's why this is so hard. (36:13) Because there is no real answer other than how do you become more accurate, which is what we're going to do an episode on tomorrow.(36:22) You shouldn't blame yourself when you fail. (36:25) Like I'm not capable. (36:27) If your conclusion after one speech is you can't be a speaker, that's the dumbest shit ever.(36:33) But if after 50,000 speeches, you're still like, I'm the best, even though you're awful. (36:40) You see, everything comes down to, it's not just about getting feedback. (36:45) It's about getting accurate feedback.(36:47) That has been one of the hardest parts of this goddamn journey. (36:50) I don't know who to trust. (36:53) Next Level Live was that excellent or was that awful?(36:56) I, some people loved it, but what do I know? (37:00) What do they know? (37:01) Is, so it all depends on the goal.(37:03) Okay. (37:03) What was the goal? (37:05) I don't get to follow up with everybody and say, did your life actually change?(37:08) That's why I love coaching. (37:09) I can tell when it's working. (37:12) I can see the numbers.(37:14) I don't just see your Instagram. (37:14) I see your bank account. (37:16) I don't just see the photos of your relationship.(37:19) I see the challenges behind the scenes. (37:21) And I dig and I ask questions. (37:23) It's almost like you can't bluff anymore because I know the tells.(37:28) And for everyone out there watching or listening, if you're overly optimistic, you probably think nothing's your fault and you're probably not taking enough humble pie and maybe not changing enough. (37:42) You're not changing your approach enough. (37:43) Blame the approach.(37:44) Blame the poor thinking. (37:46) Blame the blind spots. (37:47) Blame the fact that you think you're better than you are.(37:49) Some people think they're worse than they are. (37:51) Some people think they're better than they are. (37:52) Almost no one is accurate.(37:53) And the goal is to get more and more accurate. (37:56) I think the lesson for me is action is required on both fronts. (38:01) So in this example, maybe saying somebody that's optimistic, if you're optimistic, regardless of action, you're fucked.(38:11) If you're pessimistic without any action, you're fucked. (38:18) Yeah. (38:18) Because you're never going to find out that you're good enough.(38:20) Yeah. (38:21) So you're going to spend the rest of your life proving you're good enough. (38:23) I'm going to spend the rest of my life proving that I can achieve what I say and think I'm going to achieve.(38:31) Yeah. (38:31) Whereas you have to override. (38:34) Last piece because I know we got to go.(38:35) What is that like? (38:36) You have to override every day? (38:39) You have to override what you think of yourself?(38:41) Less now than ever, but it's hard because I don't really do anything other than like podcasting and coaching. (38:49) Coaching. (38:50) Yeah.(38:51) Coaching. (38:51) I like have to psych myself up before some calls. (38:54) Yeah, for sure.(38:55) My fear is like, I'm not going to any fucking value. (38:59) That's my fear for sure. (39:01) Still, I've done thousands of fucking coaching calls, thousands of coaching calls.(39:05) I haven't done as many as you, but I've done more than 99% of coaches for sure. (39:11) For someone who doesn't, who deep down has that core belief of I'm not good enough, what do you recommend for them? (39:21) I don't know.(39:22) I, it's going to sound so counterintuitive. (39:25) I think you have to get very, very honest about the certain things that you can't change. (39:31) Like there are some things about you that you can't change.(39:33) I can't change my height. (39:33) That's the best example. (39:35) That's the best thing.(39:36) And you know, the weird thing about this is I'm probably far less insecure about my height than other people, my height, because I talk about it so much. (39:42) So while it seems like I'm extremely insecure, statistically, I'm probably less because most people aren't willing to talk about it as much as I am. (39:49) Yeah.(39:50) I can't change that. (39:51) That's one thing I can't change. (39:53) Why does that matter?(39:54) Because there's, there's a lot of things. (39:57) I mean, if you were to put in the bucket of can't change, can change, but don't know how to can change, but do know how to that's in the bucket of can't change. (40:05) We're definitely on the same page about anyone who, who already thinks they're enough.(40:11) I think that that's a flaw in your thinking when it comes to success, when it comes to a goal achievement, we'll say that because goal achievement by definition requires you to improve towards something like, imagine a company that's like, imagine Apple. (40:29) We're already, we're good. (40:31) We don't need the iPhone 19.(40:32) We're going to stick with the 17. (40:34) It's like, you're going to fall behind. (40:36) You can't win that.(40:38) So I think it gets weird when you put identity in it. (40:42) That's why I love business metaphors, because imagine, imagine a company that's like, Oh, we're good. (40:47) We're going to, we're going to stop improving the fucking computers now.

Alan Lazaros

(40:50) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(40:51) Well, some do, right?

Alan Lazaros

(40:52) They go out of business.

Kevin Palmieri

(40:52) Yeah. (40:53) And they go, they go out of business. (40:54) It's the same is true for humans, but with humans, we bring in all this junk of identity and trauma.(40:59) And, but the principle is the same. (41:01) It's like you and he's, you and I could easily say, okay, we're, we have a good enough podcast. (41:05) This is a good enough podcast.(41:07) We're already great podcasters. (41:08) Cool. (41:08) We're done.(41:09) And then in five, 10, 15, 20 years, when other people are doing virtual reality and improving every day, and we can't compete even the best movie in 1993, like Mrs. Doubtfire is terrible compared to some of the best movies. (41:22) Now, just, just because of the cameras and because of the, you know, the fundamentals are still great. (41:27) Robin Williams was amazing.(41:28) But at the end of the day, if you're overly optimistic, you got to prove yourself, right? (41:37) If you're overly pessimistic, you got to prove yourself wrong forever. (41:42) I think my, the thing that I get like fired up about is I know a lot of people that are just, they're like, yeah, no, it's, I know it's going to like, it'll happen, but they start one thing and it doesn't work.(41:53) And then they start another thing and that thing doesn't work. (41:55) And they started another thing and that doesn't, and they're like, they're like, no, no, I know it's going to work eventually. (42:00) I don't think it's gonna.

Alan Lazaros

(42:01) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(42:02) Because all the things that you're doing are a mechanism. (42:07) Like podcasting is a mechanism. (42:08) I don't have a better word.(42:09) Do you have a better word? (42:11) It's a vehicle. (42:12) Maybe vehicle is a better word.(42:13) Nice. (42:14) And mechanism. (42:15) I don't know why I just started saying that.(42:16) I was like, that sounds good. (42:17) I'll use that vehicle. (42:18) Podcasting is a vehicle.(42:19) If you do not have success principles, you will not win a podcasting.

Alan Lazaros

(42:22) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(42:23) Then you say, ah, fuck the podcast. (42:24) Podcasting is so last year. (42:26) I'm going to start fucking TikTok.(42:28) Awesome. (42:28) If you don't have the success principles, TikTok is just a vehicle. (42:31) It's not going to work.(42:32) That's where I think being optimistic is dangerous because it's going to happen. (42:38) I don't know. (42:40) I don't know.(42:41) Is it going to, if you think it's going to happen, it might not happen. (42:44) How many people out of a hundred, I know we're not going to get two episodes, so let's finish this. (42:47) How many people out of a hundred do you think are optimistic truly or have been convinced they should be?(42:57) Ah, it's good stuff. (42:59) This is good stuff. (43:00) This is good stuff.(43:00) I'm glad I did this episode. (43:02) Same. (43:04) And for some of my clients, they get upset when we do long episodes.(43:07) We're sorry.

Alan Lazaros

(43:08) Yeah, you have to deal with it today.

Kevin Palmieri

(43:09) It is what it is. (43:12) How many people out of a hundred do you think are optimistic? (43:15) You mean really or have been convinced naturally or have been convinced they should be?(43:20) Rephrase the question. (43:21) When they're alone by themselves and no one's around. (43:24) Meaning inside themselves.(43:26) Because I do agree with you that in the social world, everyone acts optimistic because it feels like a cred hit, to be honest. (43:34) No one at a party is like, Hey, I don't believe in myself. (43:37) Everyone would be like, Oh my God.(43:39) Until they're drunk. (43:41) I know. (43:43) Right.(43:43) Until they're drunk. (43:44) My sober parties. (43:45) No, but like, okay, speech in front of a thousand people.(43:48) How many people here are into personal growth? (43:50) Every hand goes up. (43:51) Of course.(43:52) How many people in here think they're a good person? (43:53) Ah, every hand goes up. (43:57) You lose meaning when everyone is.(44:01) Of course. (44:02) Yeah. (44:02) I don't like that.(44:04) And what's ironic is if anyone didn't put their hand up for personal growth, they probably are. (44:08) They probably realize they're not into that, into growth, which means that they're, you know. (44:13) Yeah.(44:15) Here's the, I don't, dude, it might be 50, 50. (44:18) Not a chance. (44:19) It might be 50, 50.(44:21) Not a chance. (44:22) Brother optimism without strategy. (44:24) You're still spinning your tires.(44:26) No, no. (44:26) I actually think 99% are pessimistic when they're by themselves. (44:31) No, I dude, I've met a lot of people that are like, they are optimistic behind the scenes.(44:34) They are optimistic. (44:35) How do you know that? (44:36) How do you know that they're optimistic behind the scenes and they're not just putting on a show socially?(44:40) I, because I don't get shows like you from people. (44:43) Oh, it's different. (44:45) But, but here's the thing.(44:47) It's almost like, this is the thing. (44:49) It's almost like we have convinced ourselves that if somebody is pessimistic, they couldn't possibly have the strategy. (44:54) No, no, they they're pessimistic.(44:55) They're wrong. (44:56) They couldn't possibly. (44:57) And because you're optimistic, you have the fucking strategy.(45:00) No, God, no, no. (45:02) This is cool. (45:03) No, anyone's ever had, I've never heard this debated before.(45:06) I haven't either. (45:07) I love how this has turned into like a very respectful centered non-ego based debate center. (45:12) I enjoy that so very much.(45:14) Mostly because I, you are pro pessimism. (45:16) You might be the first. (45:18) No, no, no.(45:19) I just don't think, I think people write it off. (45:21) I don't think there, I don't think you'll be the study. (45:26) I don't know what the study was.(45:27) The only pro pessimistic. (45:29) I'm not necessarily one who's like your next motivational speech is going to be like pessimism. (45:34) Pessimism is the way you need it.(45:35) I just think it's, it's too much of a blanket statement when people say like optimistic people are going to win more. (45:42) It's like, yeah, probably because they find the strategy because they fail forward because they fail forward and they do it for longer. (45:49) But like, I also know a person who you think is going to win.(45:54) They're going to be very successful. (45:56) Do you want me to use a name? (45:59) First names only.(46:00) Maybe not. (46:01) Maybe not. (46:01) I have an idea.(46:03) Make it so that I know who you're talking about, but no one else does. (46:08) Out of respect for people's privacy. (46:10) How do I do that?(46:11) I can't do it without making it incredibly obvious. (46:16) Oh yeah. (46:17) I know who you're talking about now.(46:18) It's one of two people and you'll know. (46:20) Yeah. (46:20) Yeah.(46:21) Okay. (46:21) Okay. (46:22) You're thinking of that person.(46:23) Awesome. (46:25) If they, he wouldn't be successful if he didn't have an optimistic person in his corner.

Alan Lazaros

(46:29) I agree with him.

Kevin Palmieri

(46:30) I agree. (46:31) I could use you and I as an example. (46:33) Why are you, why are you less optimistic than you used to be in certain things?(46:38) Because I'm less naive. (46:39) I'm more accurate than I used to be. (46:41) I'm more optimistic in many things than I used to be.(46:44) Yeah. (46:44) Because you were overly pessimistic. (46:46) Yes.(46:47) Yes. (46:47) So we're both driving to five and we're becoming mature adults instead of Would you have worked with me?

Alan Lazaros

(46:52) Naive children.

Kevin Palmieri

(46:52) Would you have worked with me if I was overly optimistic? (46:55) Fuck. (46:56) Yes now.(46:57) Yes now. (46:58) What do you mean yes now? (47:02) Oh.(47:02) You were overly optimistic back then. (47:04) No, I was just convincing you that I had self-belief. (47:07) That's my point.(47:08) That's my point. (47:09) You wouldn't have to do that with this version. (47:11) You got to look at the actions though.(47:14) Kev, if you were the way you were eight, nine years ago with me now, I would have said, brother, can we have a real conversation? (47:22) You're full of shit. (47:23) Like not a chance you actually think that.(47:25) I still think I could have snuck it by you. (47:28) No, no, no, no. (47:29) Maybe.(47:29) I don't know. (47:30) I, maybe I underestimate how naive I still am. (47:32) I don't, I, but that's the paradox because you thought that I was more accurate than you when I was overly optimistic.(47:40) This is drive to five. (47:41) This is, we both have become more accurate. (47:44) Of course, you are more optimistic now than you used to be because you used to be overly pessimistic and I used to be overly optimistic.(47:50) That is my truth. (47:51) You, do you think, you think people have a home? (47:54) Yes.(47:54) I don't think I'm ever going to be, but then again, like there are certain things that I am. (47:59) You won't stay there long. (48:00) I don't think.(48:01) The more I feel in control of stuff, the more optimistic I am about it. (48:04) I think everyone has a home. (48:05) I think things get really wonky when they are inaccurate about their home.(48:09) That's, that's. (48:10) So like someone who thinks they're pessimistic that is actually wildly overest, overoptimistic, that person desperately needs self-awareness. (48:16) Yeah.(48:17) Which is why we're doing this episode, by the way. (48:18) All I'm saying, all I'm saying is I think a lot of people think optimism equals win, but if you're optimistic and you don't have the strategy, you are just deluding yourself into thinking that something's going to happen when it's not. (48:31) And that might be fucking worse than not thinking it's going to happen and then somehow it happens.(48:37) I don't know. (48:37) I don't, it doesn't have to be that it's not A or B happens, but. (48:41) Well, our next episode will be interesting because it's all about, from my perspective, it's about accurate thinking being the most important thing.(48:51) The next, yeah, tomorrow we're going to do how bad is being naive actually hurting you? (48:55) What is wisdom? (48:56) I think it's knowledge plus experience plus reflection, which is you take action.(49:01) You have a certain amount of knowledge. (49:02) You think you, you set an expectation, you set a goal and then you take action and then you get feedback. (49:07) And then you reflect on that feedback to see if you were where you were off.(49:12) And, and that's why we trust people with experience more than newbies, because they have a lot more data and a lot more feedback and they, they have honed like you and I next level live went a little worse than I thought, probably a little better than you thought. (49:29) Right. (49:30) Uh, I'd say a lot better than I thought.(49:32) Okay, nice. (49:33) Well, then that means you were overly pessimistic and I was a little, so it went a little worse than I thought. (49:38) So I was a little overly optimistic, but not much.(49:40) So we were closer to center. (49:42) We were closer to five. (49:43) We were closer to the truth.(49:44) We were closer to accurate. (49:46) It's, it's the prediction mechanism of the human mind. (49:50) We are always, did this episode go better or worse than you expected?(49:54) I'm sure it went exactly how we expected because we've done it 2,400 times. (49:57) We've gotten lots of feedback. (49:58) So yeah, I never know how it's going to go.(50:01) It's like when your basketball player air balls it by six feet rain dance, you know, it's like, you know, they're not very good. (50:06) They can't predict when it's going in. (50:08) Whereas Larry bird walks away before it even hits.(50:11) Cause he knows it's in. (50:12) Right. (50:12) So that's, I think that's a good metaphor.(50:14) Are we going to get the fuck out of here? (50:15) I got a coach. (50:16) Yeah.(50:16) This is the last thing, last thing you got a five minute before you. (50:18) Yeah. (50:19) Real quick.(50:19) Last thing I'll say, uh, James Bond might be one of the most optimistic humans ever of all time. (50:25) I'm not a real person. (50:26) Obviously this is, this is fake and this is made up.(50:29) But anybody else does any of the shit that he does, they're going to die. (50:32) Yeah, for sure. (50:33) They're going to die.(50:34) It's a great point. (50:34) He's like, don't worry about it. (50:35) Let me, I'm going to shoot this out and then we're going to swing down here and then we're going to jump onto this moving car.(50:40) Awesome. (50:40) Yeah. (50:40) You're optimistic.(50:41) That's going to work. (50:41) It's always worked for you. (50:42) So I understand why you think it's going to, if I did that, we would both, we're both going to die.(50:47) So I don't know if you want to call somebody, but like this thing is sinking and we are both going to drown here together. (50:52) It's a great point. (50:53) It's not, he's also known as the most competent character in all literature.(50:57) That's what I'm saying. (50:58) So competence and confidence are supposed to go hand in hand. (51:01) That's what I'm saying.(51:02) It's a good way to end. (51:02) That's what I'm saying. (51:03) All right.(51:04) If you are looking for somebody who can help you become more optimistic, accurately optimistic, appropriately optimistic, whatever it is, or help you realize where you actually are. (51:15) It took me a while before I realized that was a pessimist, but Alan helped me tremendously with that. (51:18) So if you're looking for a coach who can jam with you on this type of stuff, reach out to Alan directly.(51:23) And what else do we have? (51:25) Next Level Nation. (51:26) I am in Next Level Nation way more, and this is kind of what I told Alan and Amy.(51:30) I said, I want Next Level Nation to be kind of a deeper dive into next level land where you get to know us at a little bit of a deeper level. (51:40) Like I want this to be exclusive social media, essentially, where if you're not in the community, you're not really going to know what I'm talking about with some of the stuff that we say. (51:48) So yeah, if you're looking to dive deeper and really be around people that are trying to get to the next level all the time, join Next Level Nation.(51:55) We'll have the link in the show notes. (51:56) Love it. (51:56) That's it, man.(51:57) Let's rock and roll. (51:58) As always, we love you. (51:59) We appreciate you.(52:00) Grateful for each and every one of you. (52:01) And if you are as committed as you say you are to getting to the next level, make sure you tune in tomorrow because we will be here every single freaking day to help you get there. (52:08) Keep leveling up to reach your full potential.(52:10) Next Level Nation. (52:13) Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. (52:17) We love connecting with the Next Level family.(52:19) We mean it when we say family. (52:21) If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. (52:25) Everything you need to get ahold of us is in the show notes.(52:28) Thank you again, and we will talk to you tomorrow.