The Social Box You Live Inside Of (2441)

What if the thing you call perfectionism is actually your mind trying to keep you socially safe?

In today’s episode, Kevin and Alan examine the hidden fears that keep high-performing people from taking the next step. They break down perfectionism as more than a need to get things right. It can be fear of failing, fear of being judged, or fear of becoming too visible. Through client patterns, coaching experience, and their own history with courses, public speaking, content, and criticism, they show why the next level often requires a more honest relationship with discomfort.

Growth does not happen by waiting for confidence to arrive first. It happens when you learn how to move while the fear is still in the room. The box may feel safe, but it was never built for your potential.

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For more information, check out our website and socials using the links below. 👇

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Alan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanlazarosllc/

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Show notes:
(3:32) High achievement does not remove fear
(5:49) Identifying the box holding you back
(9:49) The dominant fear behind perfectionism
(14:29) Using exposure to build courage
(17:35) Visibility, posting, and social judgment
(19:08) Setting realistic expectations before launching
(21:08) Breaking through failure, success, and judgment
(24:04) Outro

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Transcript

Kevin Palmieri

(0:00) So what we got to in yesterday's episode was if you are a perfectionist it most likely is not by your choosing. (0:09) I am not a perfectionist but I also did not have any very strict standards and or guilt (0:14) and or shame based around performance in almost anything I've ever done so maybe I can say thank (0:20) you to mom and memes more than I can say thank you to myself for that but I had nothing no imposition

Alan Lazaros

(0:25) what a great word that is so we talked about the floor fear of failure the ceiling fear of being (0:33) too much or outgrowing or too successful and then the walls being fear of judgment so you're in a (0:39) box we all are how do you break free of it it's a metaphor welcome to next level university I'm

Kevin Palmieri

(0:46) your host Kevin Palmieri and I'm your co-host Alan Lazaros at NLU we believe in a heart-driven (0:53) but no bs approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers our goal with every episode

Alan Lazaros

(0:58) is to help you level up your life love health and wealth we bring you a new episode every single day

Kevin Palmieri

(1:07) on topics like confidence self-belief self-worth self-awareness relationships boundaries (1:13) consistency habits and defining your own unique version of success self-improvement in your pocket

Alan Lazaros

(1:22) every day from anywhere completely free welcome to next level university next level nation today

Kevin Palmieri

(1:32) for episode number 2441 the social box you live inside of I'm just having a good time (1:39) couldn't even get through the intro without smiling I'm just having a good time I'm just (1:44) having a good time how many more times can you say that I can say it many more times okay (1:48) we promised we were going to do a part two my intention my goal in this episode in this (1:55) 18 minute episode we have I want to get to the point where we use your seven eight nine thousand (2:01) coaching calls of experience to help somebody get over perfectionism it's my only goal (2:07) with today's episode did you accomplish what you wanted with the last one definitely not no (2:14) nope okay I think some good came of it though I definitely think some good came of it I don't (2:19) think we talk about that enough perfectionism yeah we never talk about that we talk about (2:26) the opposite of that which what is fail forward but I think we are at a very I think we have (2:34) lost sight a little bit of what it's like to put something out there and be afraid of

Alan Lazaros

(2:41) not judging a little bit a lot of it well yeah probably yeah a lot of it when you when you do

Kevin Palmieri

(2:47) something this many times you totally yeah so I want to speak to that person I want to speak (2:51) to that person who is ambitious but they are dealing with perfectionism and it's just holding (2:55) them up what prompted this my clients you want to do this my clients there's a client that's (3:01) struggling with perfectionism two of them and you'd never I have a client who is working through (3:07) it and I was like hey how what do you want to do with this podcast like let's let's have a (3:12) conversation nice she's like I'd love to get to the point where I can replace my income I said well (3:17) you know the next question I'm gonna ask you and she said my income and I was like good for you (3:23) it's like 375 000 a year I was like oh okay nice fuck yeah good for you like strong freaking work (3:32) yeah nobody on the outside if I just said I have a client who makes 375 000 a year on a in a bad (3:41) year that's a bad year you I'm willing to bet most people would never say she's probably dealing with (3:47) some shit she probably has perfectionism she probably has the fear of judgment she probably (3:51) feels like a fraud she probably has imposter syndrome and I want that's what I want next (3:56) level you to be I want next level you to be how do you get to the next level not by being confused (4:02) about how everybody else got there and assuming that they have something that you don't because (4:06) everybody has this to a degree everybody has their own version of this yeah great yeah what do you (4:12) think is the core for that person of those fears we talked about this person is terrified to shine (4:17) because they've always been an outlier they've always been villainized for it and they probably (4:25) still have some people in their lives that have not sailed away that they need to sail away so (4:30) they can actually beat themselves and as their coach are you saying hey I'm working on it you (4:35) gotta sail away from yeah yeah it's hard as a podcast coach you know it's weird yeah for me (4:45) it's weird for me now again you know 2440 episodes about self-improvement I know a thing or two I do (4:51) but I always try to make sure I'm I'm not breaking boundaries into a rapport with that well are you

Alan Lazaros

(4:58) fearful of they say goodbye to a friend and you being wrong like what are you what are you afraid

Kevin Palmieri

(5:05) of you being wrong well I mean yes always of course but I'm in the information gathering (5:12) when somebody comes aboard they give you the external stuff I want x amount of views x amount (5:18) of listens this is what I want to do then eventually after the second third fourth call (5:21) it's like okay now we're inside and now we can kind of figure out what's going on yeah for sure

Alan Lazaros

(5:25) it just takes depends on how long it it takes all right well if you if your goal is to figure out the (5:34) perfectionism thing we've already achieved that the perfectionism is that box I want to talk about

Kevin Palmieri

(5:42) it oh yeah yeah I want if we could leave today's episode with like it doesn't have to be three

Alan Lazaros

(5:49) steps whatever we'll identify the box okay and which one bothers you most so are you afraid of (5:57) failure based on your peer group what does failure mean in this in this context uh this is going to (6:05) be an oversimplification but that's what we have to do to learn and to communicate to the point (6:10) where you'd be like made fun of if you were uh okay let's say you're in a run club (6:17) there's someone I'm thinking of that could do 10 miles with an average of a seven minute pace (6:26) that's really good there are people that that is not good for me that's really good but for some (6:33) people even a 10 minute mile is really good like one mile that would be not good if you ran with (6:39) me so the point I'm making is that the floor is you would be kind of made fun of either in people's (6:47) heads or if you have really terrible friends actually made fun of externally for for being

Kevin Palmieri

(6:52) this this much less than I'll give you failure for me was I make the course and then nobody buys it (7:01) that was failure for me no it doesn't matter if nobody else is going to ever know that (7:06) that was always my thing is failure for me was nobody will show up to the venue (7:13) nobody will buy tickets nobody will buy the course nobody will show interest that was mine

Alan Lazaros

(7:17) okay just so just so people can compare that's that's all um no I know but which one is yours (7:26) so floor ceiling or walls the walls is judgment from others floor is failure and ceiling is being (7:33) too much I think you're not afraid of the ceiling at all that's been fascinating you love that like (7:37) get it right through the ceiling yeah uh you're definitely afraid of the floor but not as much (7:43) I think you're afraid of the walls I think you're afraid of people finding out no one bought the

Kevin Palmieri

(7:47) course maybe at the in the beginning I was but now I just know that's the way it works (7:54) I think I was just naive in the beginning yeah I know but uh I still think you're (8:00) fearful of that to some extent probably I don't know I I think I my perspective on failure has (8:08) changed a lot like I don't know what I I've bombed speeches at this point I've lost clients (8:15) like it you're still afraid of it you're just not as afraid as you used to be (8:19) yeah but like what's the dominating one you're still not you're not as afraid of shining as (8:23) you used to be of course but it's still the dominating one that's what I'm saying it's so (8:26) I'm just I'm not saying it's more or less I'm just saying is it still dominant one that's all (8:30) that's all that's what I don't even think we've identified your dominant one I think it's the

Alan Lazaros

(8:33) walls that's what we're fucking working on it's the walls for you I think I think you're afraid

Kevin Palmieri

(8:39) of judgment I'm afraid of everything yeah judgment yeah that's the whole door if if this resonates (8:46) with you you're afraid of judgment if you're afraid to walk up to a door in front of a group (8:49) of people pull it nothing happens you're afraid of judgment that's what I'm afraid of that (8:54) happened recently I don't remember where it was really yeah and I was like well that sucks

Alan Lazaros

(9:01) what your face does a certain thing every time you're nobody nobody came up to me and went oh (9:07) you idiot so it's not it was good it went well I would say it went well yeah what none of these (9:12) are rational right it's like why would you be afraid of being successful it makes no sense to (9:16) you it's yeah to me god that makes no sense to you uh it makes no sense to me the door thing (9:22) it's like who gives a fuck I remember saying that to Alan I was like you're afraid of success I

Kevin Palmieri

(9:28) thought aren't we doing this for success isn't that like isn't that the point of this whole

Alan Lazaros

(9:31) thing yeah no oh okay no I mean it is I know it still is well it's just point you know I want to (9:38) be successful enough to be successful without being hated but I don't want anybody to know yeah (9:43) I don't want anyone to know I love what I'm on coaching no but so ultimately we all have to (9:49) break through the big one we all have all three but one of them's really big and one of them (9:53) controls us more than the others and if you're if you have perfectionism it's scarcity around one (9:59) of the three so either he or she she okay either she is fearful that the course is going to be so (10:09) good that she's going to get even more hate and even more attacks and even more weird your friends (10:17) get weird when you get successful it's like uh insecure friends family members insecure people (10:24) in your life get really weird when you're really successful weird is a bad adjective let me give (10:30) you an example they just throw shots at you for what seems like no reason it's like I'll give you (10:39) one uh so Kevin and I we passed the million dollar mark I'm super excited I'm celebrating (10:43) oh you mean million not like every year though right not not every year that's like total in (10:48) total right and that's gross that's gross it's like dude shut the fuck up right like just give (10:53) me a minute to celebrate right people get very insecure around really successful people (11:01) um I don't do that at all like you and I have been around some of the most successful people (11:05) on earth and I was like actually pretty disappointed to be honest with you I'm in (11:09) retrospect at the time I wasn't but I am now but that whole insecure about like starstruck and all (11:14) that I don't that doesn't do it for me I've never been uh which is interesting because I had so many (11:19) heroes so I think in some ways but not not in person in person it was always like oh oh okay (11:25) you're just like a regular fucking person uh but anyways so which one is yours for the listener (11:32) and then and then the perfectionism is manifesting itself through that fear and you have to face it (11:39) you have to do the thing that you're scared of what's the micro version of doing it of celebrating (11:45) the million dollar mark like hey you know and celebrating it anyway knowing you're gonna get (11:51) that weird shit and then the the harder one is actually shield bumping it of like why are you (11:56) always gonna do that like what's the problem here you know what's what the fuck is that about right (12:03) that is like a hard no for anyone who identifies with being too much (12:12) you people are so insecure around you uh and and they know it that their their defenses are up (12:23) so for example if I were let's say you were super insecure 10 years ago and you're around me and (12:32) uh you you had a small it's gonna sound weird you're a small chest (12:37) your small chest right back in the day I still do yeah okay fair and and when I was doing my fitness (12:44) bodybuilding my chest was one of my strengths right and I one of the first things I said to you (12:49) is I wanted to gauge how dialed in you were and I wanted to gauge your strengths and weaknesses and (12:54) how well you knew it so I said something along what are your strengths what are your weaknesses and (12:57) you said my weakness is my chest and I said well you should train that more and but I was like I (13:02) remember thinking like good good he he at least knows because your huge arms massive traps your (13:09) shoulders are ridiculous but your chest is this fucking it's like where is it at right still (13:13) still to this day well I mean again at the end of the day we all you know it's like you could say (13:17) the same thing about my legs right so um but you should work on your weaknesses maximize your (13:22) strengths that whole nine but my point of that is saying that to you was really scary for me me (13:28) having said that to you in front of other people was scary for you maybe not in bodybuilding because (13:35) you had at that point you'd already done shows and all that kind of stuff still still still yeah but (13:39) still I remember you being pretty uncomfortable with it and I'm I was also trying to gauge that (13:44) of how confident is he actually and what part of this is a show I think a lot of it well I don't

Kevin Palmieri

(13:49) know that's that's always hard and the bodybuilding one's always hard because it's like I had already (13:56) done a show and I've just like been judged in my underwear by grown men so it's like it's weird the (14:01) whole that whole thing's wonky that whole thing's wonky you were that day I had you eat a McChicken

Alan Lazaros

(14:07) you're like no I'm not eating that yeah no no jacked you were yeah well can't do it I'm sure

Kevin Palmieri

(14:12) I'm I'm training for I was training for a show right yeah can't do it no McChicken you said (14:16) just hold the mayo I can't do it I didn't realize back then your coach was gonna fire you for four (14:24) m&ms on your birthday so and a s'mores I had a s'mores too yeah so unfortunately this is another (14:29) example of the only way around it is through it yeah exposure therapy how do you how do you make (14:36) it micro yeah that's like that's always my goal is how do we make the exposure micro you notice

Alan Lazaros

(14:46) this is the game I play with myself I'll give you an example uh this morning the tv was pissing me (14:54) off in the gym ah yes this old chestnut you know it and I was like damn it I don't want to piss (15:01) anyone off I don't want people to hate me but I don't want the tv on and then I had this game in (15:08) my head where it's like Alan because you thought it and you're scared now you have to do it it (15:13) doesn't mean you have to be disrespectful it just means you have to do it I was running earlier too (15:19) and there's this some kid left his scooter on the trails and it pissed me off not bad but it was (15:26) in my way multiple days in a row right it's like pick up your shit um and I ran past it like a lazy (15:32) fuck pardon my french and I was like Alan go back so I ran my ass back down pulled the scooter to (15:40) the side so the next time it doesn't bother me and I this is the thing that doesn't really scare me (15:46) because some kid's gonna be upset that I moved his scooter over three feet no but the point is I have (15:50) to do it if it scares me that if it scares me I have to do it if you do that you will open up your (15:56) whole world I was scared to say the f-word earlier and I in my head was like ah you gotta say it (16:01) because that's what you want to say I wanted to say you lazy fuck I wanted to say that but people (16:06) are gonna think you're a prick whatever whatever it's you're scared to say you have to say it now (16:13) that doesn't mean jump off a bridge if you're scared of heights it it means do this intelligently (16:19) right I I still assessed who was watching the tv

Kevin Palmieri

(16:24) I you know what I mean I can imagine you like launching the scooter into the lake just like (16:31) swinging around in circles and going around like a discus yeah yeah that's what I thought I would

Alan Lazaros

(16:35) do that because it'd be littering I uh I was like you imagine some kid grabs his scooter I'm running (16:40) that in full speed like uh like Ben Stiller in heavyweights that's what I was thinking of

Kevin Palmieri

(16:48) oh that's what I was thinking of yeah so I ran right by and then I said you know what I'm gonna (16:51) go launch this thing into the lake so I ran back sprinted back and then how often do you do that

Alan Lazaros

(16:56) though you have to do it if you're scared very often yeah that's a that's a cheat code right (17:00) there that's that'll get you really far in life and you never stop you can't stop because the (17:07) moment you stop doing it all of a sudden you're scared again well that's the thing in the beginning

Kevin Palmieri

(17:12) it's not going to be your example of like shutting the tv off in the beginning it's not going to be (17:17) that for somebody else it's going to be something very small you're not going to convince yourself (17:21) that is small I'm just saying uh contextually for somebody else sliding scale sliding scale like I (17:31) think releasing a course is small I don't think it's that big of a deal but when you've never

Alan Lazaros

(17:35) done it before it is the biggest deal ever of all time yeah that social media post that that (17:42) every day half the things I post I want to post but my fear doesn't want me to (17:48) the transformation photo I did recently not a didn't want to post it it's like congratulations (17:53) bro you exercise always like congratulations guy right shut the fuck up like I can hear people's (18:01) thoughts and I have to do it because it's what I believe in and it's who I am and it's so (18:08) unfortunate that it's so weird the time when I had the most influence in fitness I had the most (18:18) haters it was so interesting you know I don't remember that I don't I don't know if we probably (18:25) weren't talking about it a ton I just don't remember it but here's the problem you're (18:28) listening to the wrong crowd like in my head I can hear the thoughts of a couple people (18:36) that are people I don't want their approval anyway and they're wildly unsuccessful and (18:41) unfulfilled and it's so interesting how the people that attack you or villainize you or judge you (18:50) are the people that are like not successful at all in the thing that you are successful in so

Kevin Palmieri

(18:59) yeah because anybody else here's the interesting thing and then we gotta hop I know (19:08) if somebody comes to me we keep using like the course thing is because that's the story we use (19:12) at the beginning making a course for whatever it is if somebody comes to me and says hey I'm (19:16) gonna make my first course what should I expect I would say expect almost nothing and that's (19:21) totally normal that's exactly what you should expect you should expect that almost nothing (19:27) will happen that way at least if and when nothing happens it doesn't break you because somebody (19:32) said oh all you have to do is make it here you instead of instead of playing video games tonight (19:38) take an hour and create a $27 digital product and then sell it to 5,000 people and you just made (19:44) boku bucks like first of all that's not real where are you gonna find these 27,000 people (19:50) you have six followers and then where are we gonna find them like what are we doing here (19:56) I would sit that person down and say almost nothing's gonna happen and that's some people

Alan Lazaros

(20:00) are afraid that a lot will happen so if you tell them almost nothing's gonna happen I would be like (20:05) I know well yeah but it would be that's not wrong for you yeah that would be a different problem (20:09) for you yeah but the perfection person that's not gonna help them it will say nothing's gonna

Kevin Palmieri

(20:15) happen they're probably gonna say I don't know if we can work through it together what do you mean (20:21) no because I'm saying somebody that has that fear I know but the person you're referring to doesn't (20:27) no no I wouldn't I'm not gonna say to them what are you gonna say to them uh what I said to them (20:31) was your level eight is everybody else's level 12 and every single person who touches anything (20:36) you've ever done has been blown away you're just never blown away like your standards are just (20:41) extremely high and you crush everything you do and the people that don't like what you do don't like (20:48) themselves that has nothing to do with you see that that none of it made any sense until that (20:53) last part yeah that's fair but again it's not that's not my that's not the one that I've (20:58) overcome so it's really hard to work it's really hard to coach on that one yeah agreed well it's

Alan Lazaros

(21:04) hard to coach on the other one when you haven't experienced that right so well luckily I'm a (21:08) podcast coach or just get better either way you know no but for the listeners we're all in a box (21:16) floor ceiling walls are you afraid of failure success or judgment not enough too much or (21:26) inaccurately viewed and whichever one is bigger it is without a question holding you back (21:37) no matter what of course all of us are more capable than what we (21:43) it's that's all oh you swear too much ah you don't swear enough ah you're too much (21:47) ah you're not enough ah you're too smart ah you're too dumb uh it's fucking this whole thing (21:51) is stupid the whole I think the social world is stupid it's wildly irrational it makes no sense (22:00) it's like you villainize people that are like wonderful human beings and then you praise (22:05) people that are awful people it's it's just the whole thing is just this giant fugazi of (22:11) misinformation and none of it is even within hail mary distance of the truth (22:18) and all of us are held back by it so you have to overcome that and whether it's too much or (22:24) too little or judgment it all stems from you are afraid to not belong on some level because that (22:33) means you're gonna die from an evolutionary perspective but that's over you're not gonna (22:38) die if you don't belong you're okay you you be all of what you are supposed to be and make sure (22:45) that that's a constructive thing for yourself others in the world and that's it and keep growing (22:49) and keep improving and i've tried to swear not at all i've tried to swear more i've tried to (22:54) be too much too little i've tried everything and the truth is it's such a losing game (22:59) it's such an impossible to win game it the whole thing is stupid it pisses me off honestly that's (23:06) why i like one-on-one coaching because i just get to be fully me and i don't have to worry about (23:11) anyone getting it out of context or well you fucking said it's like dude that was one second (23:17) sentence did you listen to the whole episode you prick right the answer is no you didn't and just (23:22) go do something with your life instead of hating on me so at the end of the day you can't be (23:28) successful without judgment you can't be uh successful without failure and you can't be (23:33) successful without seeming too much so all of these have to be overcome to be successful facts

Kevin Palmieri

(23:38) and i saw a post somebody did something and we'll get out of here he said every time i post and i (23:42) it's something scary and i have like that evolutionary moment i always just remind myself (23:46) that i'm safe i'm saying yeah it's good stuff i'm safe it's fine stuff no i'm safe i'm just (23:51) hanging out my kitchen it's gonna be fine it's gonna be fine it's gonna be totally fine i don't (23:56) know if that works for you out there that never worked for me but it's good stuff this this wise (24:00) gentleman said it all right cool alan's coaching next level fitness accountability group all this (24:03) stuff next level nation as always we love you we appreciate you grateful for each and every one of (24:07) you and if you are as committed as you say you are to getting to the next level make sure you (24:10) tune in tomorrow because we will be here every single freaking day to help you get there keep (24:14) leveling up to reach your full potential next level nation thanks for joining us for another episode of (24:20) next level university we love connecting with the next level family we mean it when we say family

Alan Lazaros

(24:26) if you ever need anything please reach out to us directly everything you need to get a hold of us (24:31) is in the show notes thank you again and we will talk to you tomorrow