How Do You Juggle Intrinsic Value VS Extrinsic Value? (2456)

What if “you are enough” is true as a human being, but not true for the goals you say you want? In this episode, Kevin and Alan challenge one of the most common messages in personal development and separate intrinsic value from extrinsic capability. They talk about self-worth, identity, goals, discipline, growth, and why not being “enough yet” does not mean something is wrong with you. It means there is a skill gap, a consistency gap, or a courage gap that must be developed.

This conversation brings clarity to the tension between striving and arriving, ambition and gratitude, self-acceptance and self-improvement. It is a grounded look at how to pursue your next level without turning growth into self-punishment. Listen now, because feeling good is useful, but becoming better is harder to fake.

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For more information, check out our website and socials using the links below. 👇

Website: http://www.nextleveluniverse.com

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Email:
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LinkedIn:
Kevin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-palmieri-5b7736160/
Alan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanlazarosllc/

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Show notes:
(2:31) Why “you are enough” can mislead
(5:00) The real tension between striving and arriving
(7:09) Aligning the goal, effort, and approach
(9:25) When striving becomes self-healing
(11:37) Why vanity goals do not build you
(17:09) Finding the right ratio between striving and rest
(19:36) Outro

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Transcript

Kevin Palmieri

(0:00) You are not good enough, extrinsically yet, to achieve what you want, but that does not mean intrinsically you're not enough as a human being, and I think that's a really fine line. (0:13) How do you juggle that without constantly beating yourself up internally, feeling like shit about who you are as a human, juggling the fact that you're not skilled enough yet to accomplish the thing, like that is a very challenging thing to work through, and I don't know if I have it fully figured out for sure.

Alan Lazaros

(0:31) I've struggled with this for years, 11 years. (0:35) You're already enough. (0:37) For what?(0:38) It depends on the goal. (0:41) If you have a goal that is beyond your current capabilities, you are not enough. (0:47) That's okay.(0:48) You're not enough yet. (0:49) Welcome to Next Level University.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:52) I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri, and I'm your co-host, Alan Lazaros. (0:57) At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros

(1:04) Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health, and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:10) We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits, and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros

(1:26) Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:32) Welcome to Next Level University. (1:38) Next Level Nation, today for episode number 2456, how do you juggle intrinsic value with extrinsic value? (1:47) Why are you smiling?(1:48) Because this is going to be awesome. (1:50) Are you feeling intrinsically valuable?

Alan Lazaros

(1:52) Don't care. (1:53) Doesn't care. (1:54) No, I'm joking.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:55) Doesn't care.

Alan Lazaros

(1:55) This is going to be awesome because the internet is so full of shit with this, and I'm so excited to, like, talk about it.

Kevin Palmieri

(2:04) You know, I understand. (2:06) I understand that you are enough. (2:10) The reason I understand it is because I would say, statistically speaking, can't speak to save my life, most people don't think they are enough.(2:18) For what? (2:19) To exist as a human. (2:22) No.

Alan Lazaros

(2:23) You don't think so? (2:26) All right, real quick. (2:27) I know you wanted to jump into your stuff.(2:29) I just have to do this. (2:30) Yeah, yeah. (2:30) I feel compelled.(2:31) This is important. (2:32) Do it. (2:33) You don't have to like me.(2:34) You don't have to like what I'm saying. (2:35) Please stop whatever you're doing and listen. (2:38) You are enough is really unintelligent.(2:40) Let me explain. (2:42) If someone is miserable and their life isn't working and they're not well-developed and (2:49) not conscientious and they're not capable and courageous and vulnerable and honest and candid (2:55) and building skills and developing themselves and having goals and they're not enough and (3:01) their life isn't working, telling them they're enough is actually detrimental because if you're (3:07) already enough, why is my life so shitty then?(3:10) I think it's empowering to hear you are wildly inadequate and that's okay. (3:16) That's why your life blows. (3:17) And when you get better, your life will get better too.(3:20) That is very encouraging and empowering if you really listen to it and if you believe in yourself. (3:25) Yeah, for sure. (3:30) And you don't believe in yourself enough yet.(3:34) That's what you say to every fucking thing I say. (3:37) Because- You're right. (3:38) None of this matters if you don't believe in yourself.

Kevin Palmieri

(3:39) Because I don't ever want you to be the fucking dude screaming from the mountaintops. (3:43) It's like, yeah, no, I know. (3:44) I understand that's the way you think, but nobody else fucking thinks that way.(3:47) But I think it's like, isn't there a- Not nobody else. (3:51) Very few people. (3:53) Isn't there a minimum?(3:55) Like, isn't there a by definition, by default?

Alan Lazaros

(3:59) Do you think you're enough?

Kevin Palmieri

(4:02) Intrinsically.

Alan Lazaros

(4:04) I think I'm a fucking amazing human being. (4:08) I do too. (4:08) You're not enough intrinsically to achieve your goals.

Kevin Palmieri

(4:11) Yeah, yeah, but I'm enough. (4:15) I should be enough to be content for a second. (4:18) Agreed.(4:19) This is the duality. (4:20) But that's what I'm saying is like- Real quick.

Alan Lazaros

(4:24) I'm sorry. (4:25) We have to do- I know, that's not words. (4:27) Kev, anytime Alan disagrees, he's going to go, This is very mature.(4:34) The immature and mature sound the same. (4:42) Very mature.

Kevin Palmieri

(4:43) No, not at all. (4:44) Very mature. (4:45) Which one did I say?(4:46) You say it differently. (4:47) Very mature. (4:48) I said immature.(4:50) I know, but I didn't. (4:51) Very mature.

Alan Lazaros

(4:52) Very immature.

Kevin Palmieri

(4:53) Real quick. (4:54) Striving or arriving? (4:56) We've been in like a married couple, you and I.(4:59) It's all good.

Alan Lazaros

(5:00) Striving or arriving?

Kevin Palmieri

(5:01) Which camp are you in? (5:02) Neither. (5:04) You know me, I'm not ever on the- I'm always in the middle.

Alan Lazaros

(5:09) All right, so you're not enough intrinsically, dude, with all the love. (5:14) You're not courageous enough. (5:15) You're not- For what?(5:16) You don't have enough self-worth yet.

Kevin Palmieri

(5:18) Hold on, hold on. (5:19) Am I enough to be in this moment right now? (5:23) No.

Alan Lazaros

(5:24) How am I- Obviously not, based on this conversation.

Kevin Palmieri

(5:27) No, I'm kidding.

Alan Lazaros

(5:28) What do you mean? (5:28) I'm half fucking with you. (5:30) No, but no, no.(5:33) This conversation should highlight where you're inadequate so that you can grow. (5:41) But it can't be always striving.

Kevin Palmieri

(5:45) Yeah, it can. (5:45) That's what we're built for. (5:47) But yeah, but you gotta park the car every once in a while.(5:54) Why?

Alan Lazaros

(5:57) Because- Do you think human beings are built to just be? (6:00) No, I'm not saying- No, no, no, no. (6:02) Evolution is- I'm with you if evolution didn't exist.(6:07) But you gotta rest. (6:08) We're wired in a way, neurobiologically, where we have to be striving. (6:12) We're goal-oriented creatures.

Kevin Palmieri

(6:13) But what percentage- Otherwise, you'd have no- What percentage, though? (6:18) That's what I'm saying. (6:19) What's the percentage?

Alan Lazaros

(6:21) Um, honestly, most of, and again, most of the fulfillment that we all want to experience is a byproduct of striving. (6:33) If you and I stopped striving, all of what we value would go.

Kevin Palmieri

(6:39) But haven't I had times in the past where I've strived too much, where I was miserable? (6:43) No. (6:44) Andrew- You strived for the wrong things.(6:45) No. (6:46) Yes. (6:47) No.(6:47) You strived for the wrong things. (6:49) That, but I've also had times when I'm doing this where it's like, dude, I'm fucking miserable. (6:53) Okay, that's fair.

Alan Lazaros

(6:56) You know, like- But weren't you striving- Okay, so you weren't striving in the right amount is what you're saying. (7:01) It was too much.

Kevin Palmieri

(7:02) Yeah, I was redlining it. (7:03) It was too much. (7:05) I think the direction, I think, yes, A or B- So what is there?

Alan Lazaros

(7:09) There's the amount of striving, and then there's the direction of the striving, and then there's the amount, the direction, and then the way in which the approach, right? (7:24) That maybe like overall- So it's like right goal, right approach, right amount of effort. (7:29) Optimal approach, optimal amount of effort.(7:31) For you. (7:32) Optimal goal for you. (7:33) Yeah, that I agree with.(7:34) That, but I'm just saying- Even if it starts out as 80% being and 20% striving when you're a kid, I think about this all the time. (7:48) Like you and I are in our 30s. (7:49) These are years of striving.(7:51) Like we're supposed to be striving more than an 85-year-old. (7:55) 100%, 100%. (7:55) We're supposed to be the contributing members of society, right?(7:59) These are the years where we're supposed to be. (8:02) And that's one of the things that I struggle with is like, well, I find my kid, Ace, buddy, cut it out.

Kevin Palmieri

(8:08) He's just fucking with my office door right now. (8:12) Nice. (8:12) He's feeling my energy, right?(8:13) He probably is.

Alan Lazaros

(8:14) He's probably trying to get a word in. (8:16) Yeah, I'm trying to strive right under this mic. (8:19) The, but, and again, maybe I'm, I know I'm gonna, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna call myself out in a negative way.(8:26) I think as an existentialist, I've thought a lot about this. (8:30) And obviously an infant isn't supposed to strive. (8:34) They're supposed to be taken care of.(8:36) They're dependent. (8:37) You're supposed to start off dependent. (8:39) You're not supposed to be a 36-year-old man-child who's still dependent.(8:42) You're supposed to be the leader now. (8:45) And no, it's like, um, you start out dependent and then you create inter, uh, independence. (8:51) You start to individuate and it's more like codependence because you still live under your parents' roof and all that kind of thing.(8:57) And then eventually you create hyper-independence where you're just on your own and you can't be told what, whatever. (9:04) Everyone has that phase of like, don't tell me what to do. (9:06) I'm a rebel.(9:06) And then eventually you become interdependent where all of us are interdependent on each other, right? (9:12) You and I didn't make these mics. (9:13) We didn't build this camera.(9:15) We didn't create StreamYard. (9:17) So adults are supposed to be striving to better the community and better the family and better the world.

Kevin Palmieri

(9:25) I have a question though, okay? (9:28) If the point of striving is to fix something within yourself that is unfixable, how are you ever intrinsically enough? (9:37) That's the issue I have with it.(9:40) Because by definition, it's like if somebody sat me down and said, yeah, I figured it out. (9:45) I'm going to strive and I'm going to strive and I'm going to strive and I don't care about ever arriving. (9:50) Nice.(9:51) Then how do you ever feel like you're? (9:54) The journey will heal you if it's the right journey.

Alan Lazaros

(9:58) Yeah, but that's not the point of the journey is not to get healed. (10:02) Why not? (10:03) That's the hero's journey.(10:04) You strive and if it's a true goal that is aligned with your highest self, I know this is sounding a little esoteric. (10:13) I'm trying to make it planned. (10:14) No, I like it.(10:14) If it is a goal that is aligned with what's best for yourself, others, and the world, then you will manifest your own healing through that journey.

Kevin Palmieri

(10:25) That's the alchemist. (10:26) This does sound fucking out there.

Alan Lazaros

(10:28) Yeah, okay. (10:31) Brother, you're striving illuminated parts of your nature and your character that needed work. (10:40) We just found one earlier today with me.(10:43) It's like, oh shit, I didn't realize that. (10:46) Now that I do, I'm going to do something about it in order to be the man I'm meant to be and want to be, obviously. (10:53) But that was illuminated through you and I trying to achieve a goal.

Kevin Palmieri

(11:00) Yeah, but it's like you have such a good relationship with not being enough and I don't know how to get. (11:08) I feel like I do too, to a degree. (11:09) Like I don't really fucking care.(11:11) Like whatever. (11:11) I suck at most things. (11:13) But I also feel really good about who I am.(11:18) Yeah, yeah, yeah. (11:18) That's good. (11:19) Enough to me is not you check the box and you're done.(11:22) It means there is plenty of fuel for the journey. (11:26) Okay. (11:26) It's not a representation of done.(11:28) It's a representation of you're more complete. (11:33) You're more whole than you once were. (11:36) Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(11:37) But that comes through striving. (11:41) Striving to be with Taren has made you a better man. (11:44) For sure.(11:44) Striving to be my business partner has made you a better man. (11:46) Striving to be a leader of a team has made you a better man. (11:51) The problem is our vanity goals don't make us better, right?(11:57) Yes. (11:57) So my vanity goals of counting cards at the blackjack tables to make sure I could pay off my debt, my college debt, like that's not going to make me a better man. (12:08) So it's the goal that's off.(12:10) It's not the striving that's bad. (12:11) But like, isn't there a point where you have to be?

Kevin Palmieri

(12:15) Don't you have to feel enough?

Alan Lazaros

(12:17) There is no time where you're done.

Kevin Palmieri

(12:18) No, no, not done. (12:19) That's not my definition. (12:22) That my definition is not when you've intrinsically are enough, you're done.(12:27) It's just like you, it catches up to a moment where you appreciate the work you've done.

Alan Lazaros

(12:33) Yeah, that's great. (12:34) Yeah, those minutes and moments are wonderful.

Kevin Palmieri

(12:35) That for sure.

Alan Lazaros

(12:36) But you're not saying you should never have that. (12:39) No, you should definitely have those milestones along the way that are like super gratitude, super gratitude.

Kevin Palmieri

(12:43) Yeah, that's all it is.

Alan Lazaros

(12:44) I think people really do. (12:46) A lot of people do believe. (12:48) And if anyone wants to really understand this at a deeper level, the Art of Impossible by Stephen Kotler breaks down the science step-by-step, an entire book, one of the best books ever written, in my opinion, of the neurobiological steps as to why you cannot arrive.(13:10) The evolution doesn't allow arrival. (13:14) Homeostasis, imagine if everyone was good. (13:16) We're good.(13:17) We'd all wake up in our own filth. (13:19) We stop going to the gym. (13:20) Why exercise?(13:21) Why do any of this? (13:22) Why do a podcast? (13:23) Why exercise?(13:23) Why read books? (13:24) Why get better? (13:25) Why have families?(13:26) Why don't you see? (13:28) Dude, the opposite is insanity. (13:31) But I'm not saying the opposite.(13:32) I know you're not. (13:33) I know you're not. (13:33) Which is why we're on the same page.(13:35) But I do, I think a lot of people are. (13:37) Well, that's fair. (13:37) They do believe that, like, retirement is a man-made terrible idea.(13:43) Like, I wish, I gotta look this up. (13:46) Like, what's, have they done a study where, like, the amount, the mortality rate post-retirement has gotta be, like, crazy?

Kevin Palmieri

(13:51) You know, there's a fair amount of studies, I'm sure.

Alan Lazaros

(13:53) It's because when you stop striving, you stop improving. (13:57) You need to, like, the goal isn't to get the goal, back to the point of last week's episode. (14:03) Like, the goal is to be the best you can be.(14:05) In the military, be all you can be. (14:07) Remember that in the Marines when we were younger? (14:09) Took the ASVAB test.(14:11) I remember, be all you can be. (14:12) I was like, fuck yeah. (14:13) Fucking love that.(14:14) Nice, be all you can be. (14:15) Now, it's a little different for the Marines, but I think that that's a great motto. (14:20) Lowe's, never stop improving.(14:21) They have the best freaking motto on earth. (14:24) I remember being so upset. (14:25) Like, Lowe's got it, really, of all the people?(14:27) Lowe's got the best one? (14:28) Best slogan on earth? (14:29) Never stop improving?(14:30) Best slogan of all time, hands down. (14:33) Lowe's? (14:33) Really?(14:34) My point is, is like, the purpose of life is to do all you can with all you have. (14:39) And when you do, you end up fulfilled. (14:41) This is not my opinion.(14:42) This is neuroscientifically proven. (14:44) This is what the psychology... (14:45) Like, if you can't walk, crawl.(14:49) If you can't crawl, limp, whatever. (14:51) The point is, is like, if you actually try to stay, like, just try for a week, everyone out there watching or listening, just do nothing for a week, you're gonna hate yourself. (15:01) For sure.(15:02) It's not your fault. (15:02) That's the human condition.

Kevin Palmieri

(15:04) I didn't make the rules. (15:05) No, I'm with you on all... (15:07) I don't think...(15:09) The point of the game is to keep playing the game. (15:11) Nice. (15:12) That, I like that.(15:13) Yeah. (15:14) And sometimes... (15:15) At a higher and higher level.(15:16) Sure. (15:16) Yes. (15:17) And sometimes you get to a level where you take a second and say, holy shit, I can't believe I'm at this level.(15:22) Yeah, of course. (15:23) That. (15:24) I had a moment...(15:25) Not a month. (15:25) But I'm not saying... (15:26) I never said a month.(15:27) I know.

Alan Lazaros

(15:28) I went...

Kevin Palmieri

(15:28) You used to take more than a second. (15:30) Yeah, for sure. (15:30) I had a 6 a.m. tea time on Sunday, okay? (15:34) Dude, I had a moment where I pulled up. (15:36) It's this beautiful... (15:37) I've never played this course before.(15:38) It's a beautiful course. (15:39) It was foggy. (15:40) It was just like, this is fucking hot.(15:41) Like, yeah. (15:43) It's very weird. (15:44) I did my dream.(15:44) I did it. (15:45) Yeah, like... (15:46) Well, yes.(15:48) But it was just a moment of gratitude. (15:50) I think that's it. (15:50) That's wonderful.

Alan Lazaros

(15:51) I'm with you 100%. (15:52) I have those...

Kevin Palmieri

(15:53) I try to have those like every day. (15:55) Well, again, I think this is one of those things that you're doing and not... (15:59) Either not knowing that other people aren't doing it.(16:03) So this is your fault. (16:06) You know?

Alan Lazaros

(16:06) Last thing, I know we're gonna go. (16:08) The other night, right lighting, Emilia. (16:13) And it was just like, little Alan, good for you, man.(16:17) Like you dreamed about this, right? (16:19) So yeah, of course. (16:21) All the time.(16:22) Yeah. (16:22) But that's minutes and moments.

Kevin Palmieri

(16:25) But that's fine.

Alan Lazaros

(16:26) People... (16:26) We talked about imagination. (16:27) Some people are living there way too long.(16:29) For sure.

Kevin Palmieri

(16:30) But I assume when you say something, you're like, no, never, ever, can't happen. (16:36) One of my clients says, I take you literally and I was like, well, you gotta read between the lines. (16:40) No, you...(16:41) No, no, you don't read... (16:41) I read a book. (16:43) The lines are there.(16:44) You give me the fucking lines. (16:45) I'll read the lines. (16:46) It's hard.(16:47) All these things are nuanced.

Alan Lazaros

(16:48) I know. (16:49) You know?

Kevin Palmieri

(16:50) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(16:51) But I do see you and I'm working... (16:53) One of the people in book clubs, like your communication, people are taking you literally. (16:58) And it's like, well, I don't mean I never don't rest.(17:03) Like, of course, occasionally, but it's not... (17:07) You know what I mean? (17:08) It's very hard to...(17:09) Oh, 99.9% of the time I'm striving for 0.1% arriving. (17:13) Yeah. (17:13) Okay.(17:14) Maybe I should just do that. (17:15) Yeah, yeah. (17:16) And the 0.1 is so worth it. (17:17) It's amazing. (17:18) Yeah, of course. (17:20) And you have to get R&R.(17:22) What's the percentage? (17:23) What's the percentage? (17:24) That's it.(17:25) Yeah. (17:26) Put it this way. (17:27) The percentage gets smaller and smaller as you grow.(17:33) And the percentage is way lower than I think people think it should be. (17:37) Like retirement, for example. (17:38) And again, I'm not saying all retirement is bad.(17:41) I'm saying you should do things that are of value for yourself, others, and the world. (17:45) Like volunteer. (17:46) And I have someone who is retiring and she does all this volunteer work.(17:50) It makes her fulfilled too. (17:53) You don't volunteer just for other people. (17:55) It also makes you grateful and it makes you better and it makes you.(17:58) Like being a contributing member of society is so wildly undervalued. (18:02) It's so important. (18:03) No one wants to like just be a leech or a tick.(18:09) It's not fulfilling. (18:11) Fulfillment comes from contribution and growth and goals and meaningful progress and community and belonging and all these things that require tons of effort. (18:21) I'm glad we are on the same.

Kevin Palmieri

(18:23) We're on a similar page. (18:24) I think we're on the same page. (18:26) What's your percentage?(18:29) Definitely not what yours is. (18:31) 9 to 10. (18:33) 90, 10.(18:34) But I do find now that like the moments. (18:37) Again, I have a $40 projector. (18:39) It's terrible.(18:40) It's a piece of shit. (18:41) It's not great. (18:41) It's not a nice projector.(18:42) But I was laying in bed last night. (18:44) I was like, this is amazing. (18:45) I am so grateful for this.(18:46) It's like, I'm so grateful for where I live. (18:49) It's like that. (18:51) Yeah.(18:51) 90, 10. (18:52) 90, 10. (18:53) 90, 10.(18:53) All right. (18:54) We're going to hop on out of here. (18:55) If one of the things you want to get contribution from, fulfillment from is donating, we have the next level Hope Foundation event that is coming up the end of this month.(19:05) I don't know if the GoFundMe stuff is ready, but it will be done by the time this episode launches. (19:09) So we will try to have that in the show notes, but that's something we'll be talking about for the next few weeks before the event. (19:15) So if you want to contribute and get some fulfillment that way, help the kiddos out, we would appreciate that.(19:20) And then if you're looking for more intrinsic, more extrinsic, understanding all of this stuff, how does it connect to your goals? (19:26) Reach out to Alan for coaching. (19:27) Alan can help you with all this stuff for sure.(19:31) Striving, not arriving, but it's a percentage. (19:34) That's what we got in today's episode. (19:36) All right.(19:37) As always, we love you. (19:38) We appreciate you. (19:38) Grateful for each and every one of you.(19:40) If you are as committed as you say you are to getting to the next level, make sure you tune in tomorrow because we will be here every single day to help you get there. (19:46) Keep leveling up to reach your full potential. (19:49) Next level nation.(19:50) Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. (19:55) We love connecting with the Next Level family.

Alan Lazaros

(19:57) We mean it when we say family. (19:59) If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. (20:02) Everything you need to get ahold of us is in the show notes.

Kevin Palmieri

(20:06) Thank you again, and we will talk to you tomorrow.