What Does It ACTUALLY Mean To Be Toxic? (2457)

Your standards decide who gets access. In today’s episode, Kevin and Alan break down what it actually means to be toxic and why discernment is essential for self-respect, leadership, and growth. Kevin shares a real gym experience that challenged his boundaries, while Alan introduces his UNMEDSAI framework for identifying destructive traits like instability, manipulation, entitlement, delusion, arrogance, and immaturity.

This episode is not about judging people. It is about reading patterns, protecting your energy, and choosing who deserves access to your life. Some people belong in your corner. Others belong outside the building.

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For more information, check out our website and socials using the links below. 👇

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Show notes:
(3:58) Alan’s framework for identifying toxicity
(6:47) The key traits of destructive people
(13:44) Knowing when someone is too costly
(15:35) Protecting your time, energy, and standards
(16:52) Why self-respect requires boundaries
(19:42) Outro

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Transcript

Kevin Palmieri

(0:00) One of my deep-seated fears is being toxic, and that is something I've worked through over the last however many years, and I try to think before I say things, and I try to make sure I think about how it's going to be taken. (0:14) I just want to make sure it's accurate. (0:16) I want to think about stuff before I say it.(0:18) But I don't even know if I know what the full definition of being toxic is, and I think that's important to figure out. (0:24) Maybe if you're trending there, the people in your life are trending that way. (0:27) We're going to talk about that today.

Alan Lazaros

(0:29) I think we can recognize when something or someone is toxic, it's destructive. (0:35) What is a toxin? (0:36) It's a poison.(0:37) It's something that's bad for you. (0:39) Persons, places, things, and ideas. (0:40) I created an acronym to protect myself from myself when it comes to pouring into relationships that are destructive for me.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:49) Welcome to Next Level University. (0:51) I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri. (0:53) And I'm your co-host, Alan Lazaros.(0:56) At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no-BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros

(1:03) Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health, and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:09) We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits, and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros

(1:25) Self-improvement, in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free. (1:32) Welcome to Next Level University.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:37) Next Level Nation, today for episode number 2457, what does it actually mean to be toxic? (1:43) I was at the gym the other day, and there's this dude that I just don't fuck with. (1:47) I don't vibe with you.(1:52) What was I doing? (1:54) I think I was doing chest, and I had my headphones in. (1:57) Bruce wasn't with me.(1:58) I was by myself, and I was just getting after it. (2:00) And the dude walks in front of me, and he signals, and he starts talking, and I just pointed to my headphones, and I went, and I just shook my head. (2:08) We're not going to talk.(2:09) And he hasn't tried to talk to me since, which is nice. (2:12) I would love to throw hands at this guy. (2:15) I mean, he's older, so it's not fair, but I'd love to throw hands with him.(2:21) What if he threw one at you? (2:23) I'd kick him right in the face. (2:24) I would even throw, I would kick him right in his throat.(2:26) Yeah, for sure. (2:27) Again, this dude's old. (2:28) He's older, so it's not fair.(2:30) But he's that guy. (2:32) He's that guy who, there was a time where somebody, one of the trainers was working out with somebody, and this person was new to the gym, and they were trying, and he's, you ever use sitting up from a bench as a workout for you? (2:47) That's like, that's funny, huh?(2:48) It's like, no, no, I don't think that's funny at all. (2:51) I think you should stop fucking talking. (2:53) That's all you do here.(2:54) You work your mouth more than you work anything else, and you shouldn't make fun of somebody who's getting after it, or I'm going to kick you in the fucking throat. (3:01) That's what I think. (3:03) And he said some other shit, like some racist shit.(3:08) It's like, dude, don't be near me. (3:11) I don't want to associate with you. (3:14) And it's like, what kind of vibe?(3:16) Just because he thinks you're one of his boys. (3:19) Well, it's like, you must feel extremely comfortable to say some of this ignorant shit you're saying, and I'm not the one. (3:26) And it's at the point now where I'm ready.(3:30) If he says, hey man, why are you such a, I'm ready. (3:33) I'm just going to tell him, I don't fucking like you, and I think you think I like you, and you're toxic, and you're not my people, and I don't want to be around you. (3:42) So it doesn't have to be personal, but just don't talk to me, and everything will be fine.(3:48) We're going to be fine. (3:48) Just don't talk to me. (3:50) Point of the story.(3:51) I would consider this person toxic. (3:53) We will see if he's toxic based on Allen's acronym. (3:57) I do love it.(3:58) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(3:58) This is on a coaching session, relationship talks coaching, hybrid model. (4:01) I coach the man, she coaches, Emilia coaches the female, and then we have four person sessions. (4:08) And the female in the relationship was in the background, and I was like, hey, you know, and we ended up doing an acronym that I use.(4:17) And they are dealing with a anonymously, they are dealing with a very toxic ex that is affecting their life in a very destructive way. (4:27) And I said, I've got an acronym, if you guys are curious, to identify whether or not I believe someone is toxic. (4:35) And they're like, yeah.(4:37) And I've got the remarkable out and I write UNMEDSAI, U N M E D S A I. (4:43) This is my acronym that I created in my early 30s, mid 30s, mid 30s, to protect myself from myself, because I said to Kevin jokingly, but also true, if people were companies, and I was an investor, I would be the worst investor in history. (5:01) I have poured a lot into a lot of people that I don't think in hindsight, it was of value.(5:07) I believe in people a lot. (5:09) And the more you believe in people, the more effort you put in, the more effort you put in, sometimes it goes to waste, it's not a good investment. (5:15) So to protect myself from myself, this is the acronym UNMEDSAI.(5:20) And I call it your UNMEDSAI score. (5:23) So when I go on a podcast, pre chat or a podcast, I'm immediately everyone I meet from now on forever is I'm sizing them up based on this UNMEDSAI score. (5:31) Now here's the thing.(5:32) This is mine, I created it, I didn't read this anywhere else. (5:36) And the second part of this that I need disclaimer, a couple disclaimers. (5:39) Number one, it's mine, I created it, use it for what you will.(5:41) I use it pretty much every day now. (5:43) Number two, change it, customize it, pick your own. (5:48) You don't have to use mine.(5:50) Number three, everyone has a different definition of what these things are. (5:55) And what is toxic to one person might not be toxic to another. (5:59) Okay, disclaimer is done.(6:02) So UNMEDSAI, unstable, naive, manipulative, entitled, delusional, significance driven, arrogant, and immature. (6:15) Now, there are tells for each of these. (6:20) And no one has a zero.(6:22) Kevin does not have a zero on MEDSAI score. (6:25) No, I don't either. (6:27) I can be arrogant at times.(6:29) I can be entitled at times. (6:31) For sure. (6:32) I can be naive for sure.(6:33) Right. (6:34) I am naive as a... (6:36) I was more than I am now.(6:38) Hindsight is 20-20. (6:39) But no one has a zero. (6:41) No one.(6:42) Okay. (6:43) I'm trying to get as close to zero as possible. (6:46) So let's go through each one.(6:47) So unstable is this, this could be physically or emotionally and unstable. (6:52) So what we should do is probably use that guy hypothetically. (6:57) I mean, I don't know.(6:58) Should we just think of someone that is anonymous from our past that we just don't say anything and just do the rating?

Kevin Palmieri

(7:03) We could use this person for sure. (7:04) You're not going to listen.

Alan Lazaros

(7:06) And if they do, they'll fight you, which is what you want. (7:08) That's fine.

Kevin Palmieri

(7:09) Sure. (7:09) If you're listening.

Alan Lazaros

(7:11) Unstable. (7:12) Let me define it. (7:14) Unstable in my acronym is someone who you really can't trust.(7:19) You can't trust that they're not going to go off the handle.

Kevin Palmieri

(7:22) Oh, yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(7:23) Okay.

Kevin Palmieri

(7:24) Well, the first times I met him, he was talking to me about how he used to lift weight in prison. (7:28) It's like, okay, nice to meet you as well.

Alan Lazaros

(7:30) Also. (7:30) It's like they're not in control of their own behavior. (7:34) They can't...(7:35) That tracks. (7:36) They're not in control of their own... (7:37) They're not steady.(7:38) There's no steady. (7:39) There's no predictability.

Kevin Palmieri

(7:40) Yeah, no predictability.

Alan Lazaros

(7:41) Very unstable. (7:42) So zero to 10. (7:43) Seven.(7:44) Okay. (7:45) Can you do these? (7:46) Do you have your phone?

Kevin Palmieri

(7:47) Of course. (7:48) Come on. (7:49) What do you think this is?(7:50) I actually thought you had it in your hands. (7:51) I'm a business owner. (7:52) No, sometimes when we're talking, I'm just like playing with my cord.

Alan Lazaros

(7:55) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(7:56) I'm messing with this. (7:58) Seven.

Alan Lazaros

(8:00) All right. (8:01) Seven. (8:02) Naive.(8:05) Naive about the world. (8:06) Naive about people. (8:09) Usually if manipulation's high, naive is low.(8:12) I was going to say, I don't think it's very high. (8:13) Yeah. (8:14) Zero.(8:15) I'm going to go one. (8:16) One. (8:16) Okay.(8:17) And typically naive and manipulative, they're inverse. (8:21) Usually if you're very naive, you're not manipulative and you're being manipulated. (8:25) Okay.(8:26) Manipulative. (8:27) I would say it's very high.

Kevin Palmieri

(8:29) I'm going to say eight. (8:31) And again, this is based on limited... (8:32) But you know the type.(8:34) You know the type.

Alan Lazaros

(8:35) Yeah. (8:35) And again, at the end of the day, the other disclaimer is no one is fully accurate in this assessment. (8:40) Right.

Kevin Palmieri

(8:41) Right.

Alan Lazaros

(8:41) Right. (8:42) I mean, the goal is to get more and more accurate. (8:44) Oh, you're an eight out of 10.(8:46) So out of every 10 people on earth, you're more manipulative than eight of them. (8:52) No one is fully accurate about this, but you have to go off something. (8:56) Right.(8:56) Right. (8:57) Okay. (8:57) So on Medsci, E is entitled.(9:01) Oh, super high. (9:02) Yeah. (9:02) And he's entitled to your time and your attention, which is why he's just coming and barging into your workouts.(9:07) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(9:07) Like, what are we doing? (9:09) Yeah. (9:09) Eight.

Alan Lazaros

(9:09) Yeah. (9:10) Okay. (9:10) Entitled.(9:10) What'd you give him? (9:11) Eight. (9:11) Eight.(9:12) All right. (9:14) Delusional. (9:17) 10.(9:18) 10. (9:18) Yep. (9:19) Nice.(9:19) Good. (9:20) 10. (9:22) Should I define that?(9:25) Probably. (9:26) Unstable. (9:27) Not in control of their own behavior.(9:28) I'm going to try to make this as simple as possible. (9:30) Naive. (9:31) They still believe in Santa Claus.(9:34) If you have any kids, I'm so sorry. (9:37) Maybe throw a disclaimer in there. (9:39) They still believe in Candyland.(9:41) They believe that everything's going to work out and it's all going to be great with minimal effort. (9:46) They're just naive. (9:47) They believe everyone has the best intentions.(9:49) Everyone's wonderful. (9:50) No one lies. (9:51) No one cheats.(9:52) No one steals. (9:53) Like they're just naive. (9:54) Right.(9:54) We all start out naive, by the way. (9:56) And we find out over time that gets ripped out from under us. (9:59) But anyway, so naive was super high for me.(10:01) Manipulative. (10:03) Manipulative is they are, they do not have pure intentions. (10:06) They're extremely selfish and they, they poke and prod your exiles and your wounds to try to control you.(10:12) They are power hungry and they want to control your behavior. (10:15) They're trying to get you to be what they need, not help you flourish. (10:19) Okay.(10:20) Entitled. (10:20) They believe that the world revolves around them and they believe that everyone should bow down to them and they believe they're better than other people. (10:30) That's really, entitlement means you believe you deserve things by default.(10:34) You deserve because of your last name or because of where you came from or because you drive a nicer car. (10:38) You are somehow entitled to other people's time and attention and nice things and good things, right? (10:44) Spoiled brat syndrome is what I call entitled.(10:46) All right. (10:47) Unmedsci. (10:48) Delusional.(10:49) They have no, no accurate thinking about themselves, others in the world. (10:56) They think they're way better than they are. (10:58) They think everything's going to work out or, or they, they basically, they think they're attractive when they're not.(11:06) There's nothing grounded. (11:07) There's nothing that's measured. (11:08) No grounding in reality.(11:09) Yeah. (11:09) No grounding in reality. (11:10) That's the best one.(11:11) Yep. (11:13) Unmedsci. (11:13) Significance-driven.(11:15) This one is if they have a, okay. (11:16) Yeah. (11:17) Go ahead.(11:17) Nine. (11:18) Okay. (11:18) This one, if you're really significance-driven, you want to be the center of attention.(11:23) You want to be significant. (11:26) You'll do anything to get a rise out of people. (11:30) And you, a lot of people that are significance-driven try to hide it.(11:34) But basically these are, this is sort of the narcissistical, the world revolves around me and it should. (11:39) And I'm going to try to make sure that I get, they love their birthday. (11:43) They have a birthday week or a birthday month.(11:45) Anyone who has a birthday month is most likely significance-driven. (11:48) You don't get a month. (11:49) Okay.(11:50) Grow up. (11:50) You don't get a month. (11:51) If you're five, it's different, but when you're Shouldn't be listening.

Kevin Palmieri

(11:54) If you're five and you're listening to this without your parents, go get your parents. (11:57) You shouldn't be listening to this without your parents.

Alan Lazaros

(12:00) But significance-driven is like everything they do is for attention. (12:04) Okay. (12:05) Unmed Zai.(12:06) Arrogant. (12:08) 10. (12:09) This one is really simple to define.(12:11) They think they are better than they really are. (12:15) They think they're smarter than they are. (12:17) They think they're stronger than they are.(12:19) They, they think they're better than they are. (12:22) And it's brutal. (12:26) Okay.(12:28) Immature. (12:31) 7.

Kevin Palmieri

(12:32) I'm surprised that one's not higher. (12:35) I mean, I'm trying to weigh them. (12:38) Okay.(12:38) You know, like if, yeah, yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(12:40) Immature would be. (12:42) Nah, 8. (12:44) Yeah.(12:45) It's like immature is what, how do I define immature? (12:50) Yeah. (12:50) You're not conscientious.(12:52) You don't have goals. (12:53) You're not dialed in. (12:54) You, you can't hold a schedule.(13:00) You're kind of all over the place. (13:03) You, you crack jokes at other people's expense. (13:06) And you can't take anything seriously.(13:10) Immature is someone who can't take serious things seriously. (13:14) Immature is someone who hasn't met themselves at the deepest level. (13:17) Someone who's emotionally immature.(13:19) Someone who can't handle their own discomfort with their own inadequacies. (13:23) Someone who like has to make a joke about boobies or butts because they just haven't grown the fuck up. (13:31) Right.(13:32) And sometimes it is actually fun to make jokes. (13:35) We make jokes, but there's a big difference between making everything a joke versus actually being playful and having fun. (13:42) And those are hard to discern sometimes.(13:43) But yeah, so that's immature. (13:44) So unmedsci, if you have an unmedsci score above a five, I don't go anywhere near you basically. (13:50) So you just 61 divided by eight.

Kevin Palmieri

(13:52) Correct. (13:53) It'd be like 7.8, 7.62, 7.63. Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(13:58) So he would be someone who would bother me a lot and he would really dislike me. (14:02) This man- I don't think he would. (14:04) I don't think he would.(14:05) So he would be someone who's delusional enough to think he's like me.

Kevin Palmieri

(14:08) Yeah, he would be like, you're my type of person.

Alan Lazaros

(14:10) Yeah, but he's not. (14:12) One of the first times I met him- And he would dislike me if I was honest with him. (14:17) Well, yeah.(14:18) Yeah, yeah. (14:18) So if I pretended that he was like me and that we were- Then he'd be too peace and apart. (14:23) One of the first times I met him- It's been a long time since we've been in person together, dude.(14:26) I think he'd dislike me very much now.

Kevin Palmieri

(14:28) Well, he tries to, he's like the first time I met him, he was trying to peddle Viagra in the locker room. (14:33) He's like, yeah, man, I just buy Viagra and sell it to people for like $100 a thing. (14:36) I was like, you are wildly too uncomfortable with telling people about yourself that you've just met.(14:42) Like you are, you got to read the room, sir. (14:44) I don't- By the way, isn't that like an over-the-counter? (14:49) I mean, I don't think you have to chart.(14:51) I don't think you have to chart. (14:52) Even if you do, you don't have to, it's not $100 a pill, I don't think. (14:55) So like why?(14:56) I feel like your business model is drastically, drastically off.

Alan Lazaros

(14:59) Look at your caricature.

Kevin Palmieri

(15:01) It's bad, man. (15:02) Yeah, it is. (15:02) It's bad.(15:03) It takes a lot. (15:04) Again, I don't want this to be like, oh my God, you found someone in your turn. (15:08) I don't want it to be that.(15:09) But this is what I will say. (15:10) The second I met this dude, I knew he was going to be toxic. (15:15) There are signs.(15:17) There are signs. (15:18) That is the point, is like you might be around, hopefully not, living with somebody who is toxic. (15:25) You most likely have people in your family, in your friend group, in your circle that are toxic.(15:29) Of course you do. (15:30) It's not good for you. (15:31) Yeah.(15:32) It's just not good. (15:34) It's not good.

Alan Lazaros

(15:35) So I know we got to go. (15:36) The point of this episode is to help everyone listening be more discerning with who they allow in their corner and who they invest in. (15:48) Time, effort, and money.(15:50) If you take all the time, effort, and money that you've invested into past relationships, if you could go back, which ones would you not? (15:59) You do not get infinite time, effort, and money. (16:02) You don't.(16:03) You get one life. (16:05) And I would, I mean, the amount of time, effort, and money that I have squandered on people with high unmedzi scores, that acronym has changed my fucking life. (16:17) It is unfreaking believable.(16:18) The lowest unmedzi score I've ever seen is Emilia Smith. (16:21) And the opposite of unmedzi is inward humility, a deep, deep respect for yourself and others, and being conscientious. (16:33) Just, you're not a wrecking ball in every room.(16:35) You actually care about your impact on other people. (16:38) Not so much that you shirk all the time and that you can't be yourself, but you really do want what's best for yourself, others, and the world, and you try to take the high road. (16:46) The high road is whichever one takes more courage, typically.

Kevin Palmieri

(16:52) Going back real quick, tying this back to the episode we just did, how do you juggle intrinsic value versus extrinsic value? (16:58) Self-respect. (16:59) I think that's what people want when it comes to like intrinsic value.(17:02) You want to be able to respect yourself. (17:04) Yeah, agreed. (17:04) And you can't have a moment where you, that, that's what I was trying to get at the previous episode.(17:08) I like how these episodes connect. (17:10) Same. (17:11) Don't be toxic.(17:13) Don't be toxic. (17:14) And we all have been toxic in some way, shape, or form. (17:16) Like again, I'm not zero.(17:18) I have my own shit. (17:21) And, but we're always trying to work on it.

Alan Lazaros

(17:24) The last piece here with the high road thing. (17:27) The high road might be Kev just saying, hey, you know, I'm, I'm in my workout, not talking to him. (17:33) The high road might eventually, if he keeps pushing the boundary, it might eventually be, hey, get out of here.(17:39) Well, that's the high road. (17:41) The high road isn't always the one that would look from the outside in as the high road. (17:46) Like if someone saw you slug this guy, they're not going to think you took the high road.(17:49) But what if it actually got to the point where you need to, right? (17:52) Maybe that is the, the high road. (17:56) So the high road is, is usually the one that takes the most courage.(17:59) And don't start punching people in the face. (18:01) That's not what I'm saying. (18:02) Usually the high road is the one that's, yeah, the courageous one that's standing up for what you believe in.(18:11) And, and, you know, if you see someone bullying, someone is the high road to just ignore it. (18:16) Probably not. (18:17) Right.(18:18) So you got to decide for you at the end of the day. (18:20) But the high road, that's been an interesting thing. (18:22) The high road leadership book that I don't think the book is very good, I love the title.(18:26) High road leadership is something that I'm working on every single day. (18:31) And the high road is not always the one that would appear. (18:36) You know, sometimes the high road is calling people out and, and actually almost, almost being willing to appear toxic.

Kevin Palmieri

(18:44) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(18:44) Right. (18:45) But it's, you're fighting for something that's right.

Kevin Palmieri

(18:47) That's, that's good. (18:49) Taryn sent me something the other day. (18:50) It was something along the lines of, if you're around, if there's five people and there's one toxic person and they start saying toxic things and nobody says anything, that's five toxic people, not one.

Alan Lazaros

(19:02) Yeah, exactly.

Kevin Palmieri

(19:03) That's fucking, right? (19:05) Fire. (19:06) And heavy.(19:07) Because to your point, like, sometimes... (19:10) It's a lot of responsibility. (19:11) Yeah, you got to put yourself out there and you got to risk whatever that is.(19:14) Agreed. (19:15) You got to risk whatever that is.

Alan Lazaros

(19:17) Yeah. (19:17) Bullies win when everyone stays silent.

Kevin Palmieri

(19:20) It's a whole different conversation. (19:21) All right. (19:22) If you want to take the high road, if you want to make sure that you're not surrounding yourself with people with very high un-MEDSI scores, reach out to Alan for coaching.(19:30) If one of the things you want to do is get more fit, whatever that means, be more consistent when it comes to exercise, running, yoga, whatever, Pilates, weight training, whatever it is, Next Level Fitness Accountability Group. (19:40) We're in there every day cranking along. (19:41) We'd love to have you.(19:42) As always, we love you. (19:43) Appreciate you. (19:44) Grateful for each and every one of you.(19:45) And if you are as committed as you say you are to getting to the next level, make sure you tune in tomorrow because we will be here every single day to help you get there. (19:51) Keep leveling up to reach your full potential. (19:53) Next Level Nation.(19:55) Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. (19:59) We love connecting with the Next Level family.

Alan Lazaros

(20:02) We mean it when we say family. (20:04) If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. (20:07) Everything you need to get ahold of us is in the show notes.(20:10) Thank you again.

Kevin Palmieri

(20:11) And we will talk to you tomorrow.