Do It Scared If You Have To (2484)

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What if fear is not stopping you because it is stronger than you, but because you keep giving it authority? In this episode, Kevin and Alan clarify what it means to do it scared and why courage is built through exposure, not theory.

They break down fear, identity, social approval, opportunity cost, and the hidden patterns that quietly limit growth. The goal is not to feel fearless. The goal is to build enough proof that you can face what used to control you. Do not wait to feel ready. Start collecting proof.

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Show notes:
(2:10) How podcasting built confidence through reps
(5:20) When your goals require you to face fear
(8:49) The fears Kevin had to overcome
(12:14) How fear quietly limits success
(16:07) Alan on hidden fears and identity
(24:16) Being afraid of being worse than or better than
(28:43) How to run a fear audit
(30:22) Choosing real growth over social approval
(32:39) Outro

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Transcript

Kevin Palmieri

(0:00) I will never forget the first international flight I took. (0:06) I was freaking out. (0:07) I lost sleep the night before.(0:09) It got delayed. (0:10) It was at like midnight. (0:12) I was dreading it.(0:14) And since then I have taken a bunch of flights and now I'm at the point where I actually kind of sort of weirdly look forward to flying. (0:21) And that's just because I did it scared long enough to get to the point where it doesn't scare me anymore.

Alan Lazaros

(0:27) Exposure therapy is you are afraid, you admit it first and then you decide to do it anyway. (0:35) And you expose yourself a little more, a little more, a little more, a little more to that which you are afraid of. (0:40) And the fear gets smaller as you do that over time.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:44) Welcome to Next Level University. (0:47) I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri. (0:48) And I'm your co-host, Alan Lazaros.(0:51) At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven, but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros

(0:58) Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health, and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:05) We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits, and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros

(1:20) Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:27) Welcome to Next Level University. (1:33) Next Level Nation today for episode number 2484, Do It Scared If You Have To. (1:38) Because if you do something scared long enough, eventually you'll get to the place where you probably won't be scared of it anymore.(1:44) I was at the airport yesterday and there were these two ladies next to me and they were, they were sassing each other. (1:53) And I just, I leaned over and said, you guys need a TV show. (1:56) You need a reality show.(1:57) That would crush. (1:58) And they started laughing. (1:59) And I was like, that's probably incredibly strange for somebody.(2:02) It's like a stranger just to like overhear you and then start talking to you. (2:05) And then I made friends with the people on the flight and it was just like, I used to be afraid to talk to strangers. (2:13) Over the last nine years, I have talked to a thousands of strangers because of this.(2:19) A thousands of strangers. (2:21) I haven't learned to speak properly yet, but I have spoken to a thousands of strangers. (2:25) That was, that was just exposure therapy over time without me even realizing I was doing it.(2:30) I don't think it was really intentional, but when you log onto a meeting with somebody for the first time, or you're a guest on a podcast, you've never met them. (2:37) There's always that weird first 30 seconds where you're feeling each other out. (2:41) I've just done that so many times.(2:43) That's an example. (2:45) This podcasting, that's an example. (2:47) I used to be really afraid.(2:48) I don't, I don't even think about it anymore. (2:50) Like I see it on the calendar. (2:51) It's like, oh, we have episodes.(2:52) How many? (2:52) Cool. (2:52) Cool.(2:53) The best example for me, we had my buddy's bachelor party last year and he said, this is one of the, one of the kids I'd love to come. (3:05) Like he's, he's fun. (3:06) It'll be a blast.(3:07) He doesn't like to fly. (3:08) So I don't know if he'll come or not. (3:09) I was like, ah, whatever.(3:10) I'm sure he'll probably come. (3:11) It's a big thing. (3:12) And I messaged him and he said, where is it?(3:14) And I said, we're going to Myrtle beach. (3:15) And he said, ah, dude, I'm out. (3:17) I don't know, fly.(3:18) I was like, just like this once you just fly down this one, you know, it just, it'll be fine. (3:24) It's going to be fine. (3:24) And then I was like, yeah, no, I understand.(3:26) Same used to be me. (3:27) I would've said the same thing 10 years ago.

Alan Lazaros

(3:32) Wouldn't you have wanted someone to kick you in the ass and be like, come on. (3:36) Yeah. (3:37) Now with the, now with the perspective I have.(3:39) Yeah. (3:40) What'd you say to him? (3:42) I don't know.(3:43) You probably were like, it's all good.

Kevin Palmieri

(3:44) I think I probably was.

Alan Lazaros

(3:46) What would you do now? (3:47) Now that you're an empowered, courageous leader of the people for the people by the people.

Kevin Palmieri

(3:52) I don't know. (3:52) I don't know if I would do anything different. (3:54) Seriously.(3:55) It's not, I do not believe it is my responsibility to make everybody grow.

Alan Lazaros

(3:58) You said verbatim that you hold other people back from their own growth by not telling them what you really think.

Kevin Palmieri

(4:07) My thought is you're going to literally stop yourself from experiencing a bunch of things you could. (4:15) Why don't you tell him that? (4:16) Are you okay with that?(4:17) Cause I'm not, I don't even know this guy. (4:19) I've met him like once. (4:21) You want to call him up right now?(4:23) Hey brother, I want you to know you're fucking your whole life up.

Alan Lazaros

(4:26) That's not what I'm saying.

Kevin Palmieri

(4:28) It's because we have a level one relationship. (4:32) I'm not going to give them level seven feedback. (4:34) Yeah.(4:35) But I also understand what it's like at the beginning of that. (4:39) I understand what it's like. (4:40) You wouldn't change anything if you could go back.(4:42) I'm sure I would change something. (4:43) It just wouldn't, I wouldn't go to. (4:44) Yeah.(4:44) Yeah. (4:45) Of course not.

Alan Lazaros

(4:45) That wasn't my point.

Kevin Palmieri

(4:46) I wasn't saying that.

Alan Lazaros

(4:47) Hey, you're fucking your entire life up. (4:49) That's not, this is zero to 10.

Kevin Palmieri

(4:51) I might say something along the lines of, I definitely understand because in the beginning flying to me was impossible and I have overcome for the most part that in my life has been so much better. (5:06) And now I am the man.

Alan Lazaros

(5:08) Now I'm the man.

Kevin Palmieri

(5:09) And Hey, let me tell you how to live. (5:11) Let me tell you how you should live real quick. (5:13) No, let me finish real quick, real quick, real quick, real quick.(5:17) I remember, and then I'll kick it to you. (5:20) I promise. (5:20) I remember thinking to myself, if I actually want to be successful, like if I actually want to be as successful as I say I want to be, and I actually want to like be an international speaker that will require me to get on a plane because there are places that, I mean, yeah, you can take a boat if you want, but that's going to take a long ass time.(5:37) When's Kevin coming? (5:38) He's on the boat.

Alan Lazaros

(5:38) I'm on the boat. (5:39) I'll be there in 17 days.

Kevin Palmieri

(5:41) That is the thing that got me to, it got me off the fence because if I actually, I'm literally going to stop myself goals. (5:49) So it went from me flying when I was very young, I flew to Florida with my mom. (5:54) We went on a vacation.(5:55) I literally cried because I wanted to drive back because of how bad I hated the flight. (6:00) Go into London. (6:01) That was fucking brutal.(6:03) Go into London. (6:04) And then it was like, we went to Florida and then we went back to Florida and then we went to Arizona and then we went to California and then I started flying. (6:12) Oh, then Tara and I went to Scotland and then I just started flying places by myself for business.(6:16) And now it's like, I don't even, I really don't even think about it anymore. (6:20) And it probably took, I don't know, 20 times on a plane maybe.

Alan Lazaros

(6:26) Nice exposure therapy. (6:27) So what you're really saying is your goals and dreams. (6:30) Saved my life.(6:31) Saved your life. (6:32) No, but it definitely made your life better. (6:36) How much worse would your life be if you didn't fly?(6:39) I don't know that I would know. (6:41) It would be way worse. (6:42) Yeah.(6:43) You wouldn't have been able to get that client. (6:44) You wouldn't have been able to come podcast with me. (6:46) You and I wouldn't be business partners.(6:48) Yeah. (6:49) Can you imagine if you were like, nah, man, I'd be like, dude, I can't have a business partner, but can't fly.

Kevin Palmieri

(6:54) But you don't know that at the time. (6:56) It's like, you don't know. (6:57) You only know what you know.(6:58) You don't know the opportunity costs. (7:00) That is not fucking true for me. (7:03) I know, but you're not me son.(7:06) You couldn't extrapolate that. (7:09) I could extrapolate. (7:10) I would be leaving stuff on the table, but not stuff.(7:12) Yeah. (7:14) Brother. (7:15) I don't fucking know.(7:16) I didn't know I was going to go to the middle of nowhere to, I didn't know that was going to happen. (7:22) Damn. (7:23) Yeah.(7:23) That's a youth thing. (7:25) That's a youth thing. (7:25) More, more than me.(7:26) I don't know. (7:27) I'm sure maybe I'm just bad at that.

Alan Lazaros

(7:30) Well, one of the things we've talked about in the past is your ability to project into your own future. (7:36) Like if you go into your future in advance and what you want it to be, and then you reverse engineer it, getting on a fucking plane was obviously in there, you know, which you obviously knew at least to some extent, which is why you did it, which is why you did it.

Kevin Palmieri

(7:49) But I didn't know what dreams will save your life. (7:51) I didn't know what specifically I'd be leaving on the table. (7:53) I knew that I would be limiting this massively.(7:55) I just didn't know to what degree.

Alan Lazaros

(7:58) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(7:58) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(7:59) That is tough. (8:00) It's like, how would you, and I didn't have the courage to say, Hey, by the way, you don't get on this fucking plane. (8:05) I can't be your business partner.(8:06) You imagine I'm traveling and where's your business partner? (8:11) Ah, scared of planes. (8:13) He's driving.(8:13) They would be what I'm driving. (8:16) Yeah. (8:17) And again, I'm not trying to be unempathetic.(8:19) Like at the end of the day, dude, I was scared of getting back in a car after my car accident. (8:23) I was claustrophobic. (8:24) Like everybody has issues.(8:26) You have to overcome them. (8:28) Well, I have to overcome them.

Kevin Palmieri

(8:29) You can't just let them fucking fat is that is the hard thing is like this person just doesn't have that big of goals. (8:36) So for them, it's not worth it. (8:38) It's not worth it for them.

Alan Lazaros

(8:39) It's quote unquote, not worth it, but they don't really know what they're leaving on the table. (8:42) They think they're leaving Myrtle beach, bachelor party on the table. (8:46) What they're actually leaving on the table is way more than that.(8:48) And that's a whole nother conversation. (8:49) I wanted to ask you, let's name all the shit you used to be afraid of that now you do regularly.

Kevin Palmieri

(8:57) Oh my God. (8:58) Having conversations with people about money, like potential clients. (9:03) I used to be so, Oh my God, we'd have this 95 boss.(9:09) We'd have this full conversation. (9:10) They'd be like, how much is it? (9:11) And I'd be like, well, I, you know, I, you know, so the, uh, like, like $495.(9:18) And then I'd be like, but you know, there's a lot, like so much stuff. (9:21) It comes in, there's no contracts or anything. (9:22) And there's a lot of stuff that comes with that.(9:24) And they're like, maybe if you can't do that, like we can find a way to maybe kind of like meet in the middle that dude, I was so afraid. (9:30) I was so afraid.

Alan Lazaros

(9:32) I was so afraid.

Kevin Palmieri

(9:34) Okay.

Alan Lazaros

(9:34) So talking to people about money, number one, let's keep going.

Kevin Palmieri

(9:37) We got this talking to people about money flying for sure. (9:42) There you go. (9:45) I hated calling people like people that I didn't know.(9:52) Like I call people text me like, Hey, can you, can you talk? (9:55) And I just call them. (9:56) It's like, yeah, what do you need?(9:57) Like clients? (9:57) I call clients all the time. (9:58) It's weird.(9:59) That's one for sure. (10:01) Yeah. (10:02) Um, not ha and again, I'm not saying you should do this, but like not attaching my safety to the amount of money I have in my bank account.(10:13) That's something I've beaten out of myself over the years. (10:16) More tangible. (10:17) Let's go more tangible.(10:19) It's hard because I feel like my, I was afraid of like things very deeply in very specific areas running out of money, but that doesn't, I think you should be afraid of that. (10:31) Yeah. (10:31) You should be afraid of that.(10:33) Just because I had exposure therapy to it does not mean you should. (10:38) Yeah. (10:38) Trust me.(10:38) You probably don't want it.

Alan Lazaros

(10:40) Um, it would break something for you though. (10:42) There's something about fate. (10:43) We gotta do this at some point.(10:44) There's something about facing your fear that makes it less.

Kevin Palmieri

(10:47) It's part of the therapy, but you don't have to do it that way. (10:51) Judgment. (10:52) I care far less about judgment than I do.

Alan Lazaros

(10:54) Give me a specific. (10:55) Fuck. (10:56) You used to be afraid to like, look bad.(10:58) Yeah. (10:59) Now you do it all the time.

Kevin Palmieri

(10:59) Yeah. (11:00) I look bad all the time.

Alan Lazaros

(11:00) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(11:01) Does, I don't care. (11:01) I don't think about it. (11:02) Like whatever.(11:03) I fuck it.

Alan Lazaros

(11:03) Sometimes you do. (11:04) Yeah. (11:05) That's fair.(11:05) Sometimes you're like, am I, did I just look like a loser on that episode? (11:09) I said, dude, honestly, probably. (11:11) Yeah.(11:11) But it doesn't, it doesn't. (11:12) And I wouldn't notice if you did anyway. (11:13) I've been doing that for years.

Kevin Palmieri

(11:14) I don't think about it after it's like when we're done, I don't, it's not like I ruminate on it.

Alan Lazaros

(11:17) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(11:18) Like that doesn't, that doesn't happen. (11:19) That used to happen where it was like, oh, I wonder what people, I don't even, I don't, I don't, whatever. (11:24) It's done.(11:25) It's done.

Alan Lazaros

(11:26) Yeah. (11:26) Exposure therapy frees you. (11:28) It frees you from a lot of fears, a lot of anxieties.(11:30) Yeah. (11:31) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(11:31) So I don't know, public speaking, talking to girls, talking to girls, speaking, everything I do today, like literally letting people down, disappointing people. (11:43) I still hate it. (11:44) I'm not there.(11:45) I haven't gotten over that, but I've been exposed. (11:47) Unfortunately I've been exposed to that so many times over the last decade where it's like, yeah, no, I understand. (11:52) I told you today, like we have a new client and we're working with somebody new and he's crushing it.(11:58) And it's like, it's very weird for me to say like, eh, if it crashes and burns, we'll find a way to fix it. (12:02) It's not the end of the world. (12:03) Like, that's weird for me.(12:05) I didn't know this.

Alan Lazaros

(12:06) And again, like I had a lot of things holding us back to your fears were holding us back a lot for sure. (12:12) Yeah. (12:12) Yeah.(12:13) Yeah. (12:14) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(12:14) I didn't realize how much that is. (12:16) One of the, like one of the reasons you won't be more successful is because you're not willing to face your fears that are stopping you from being successful.

Alan Lazaros

(12:23) You were so much more afraid than I thought you held you, you hit it pretty well. (12:28) And you were honest and vulnerable a lot of the time too. (12:30) I'm not, I don't want to make it sound like you were just hiding, but I totally underestimated how afraid I thought everybody was.(12:38) I thought everybody was brother. (12:40) I'm, I was not afraid of a single thing you just said.

Kevin Palmieri

(12:42) Yeah. (12:43) But I also wasn't afraid of a lot of the things you said. (12:45) Yeah.(12:45) Fair. (12:45) Or you haven't said like, I wasn't afraid of certain things. (12:50) Yeah.(12:50) You know, it's like, I think you probably thought everybody was afraid of what you were afraid of. (12:54) I probably thought everybody was afraid of what, oh, no, no, I didn't. (12:57) Fuck me.(12:57) Right.

Alan Lazaros

(12:58) No, no. (12:58) But I, I didn't. (13:00) What is, there's something valuable in that you thought other people were afraid of planes and then they got them on them anyway.(13:07) Like, yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(13:10) How I, in my mind, it's like, how could you not be afraid of this?

Alan Lazaros

(13:14) Okay. (13:16) You thought other people were afraid of running out of money.

Kevin Palmieri

(13:19) Yeah. (13:20) People are definitely afraid to run out.

Alan Lazaros

(13:21) Of course.

Kevin Palmieri

(13:21) That's like a lot of people are not of many, the vast majority of people.

Alan Lazaros

(13:25) Okay. (13:26) Fair.

Kevin Palmieri

(13:26) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(13:28) In hindsight, this is a little bit of a selfish question. (13:31) I, I, it is what it is in hindsight. (13:36) Isn't it obvious?(13:37) I wasn't afraid of those things.

Kevin Palmieri

(13:40) I think it was obvious at the time too. (13:42) I just thought you thought it was naive or something. (13:47) I didn't think it was, I didn't think there was anything wrong with me.(13:50) I just thought you were way more developed than that. (13:52) It wasn't like I'm broken because I'm afraid of things. (13:54) It was just like, Alan's way more developed because he's not.(13:58) I think I was living. (13:58) Or did you think I was hiding it too? (14:00) No, no, no, no, no, no.

Alan Lazaros

(14:02) I just thought I was living more of a normal human experience than you were. (14:06) Well, maybe, maybe I also didn't know how much these things affect people. (14:10) I mean, I know now for sure more than I ever have.(14:13) I mean, people are riddled with anxiety for sure. (14:16) I'm like, I don't, I don't know. (14:18) I have, I have a couple of really big fears, but that stuff, not at all.

Kevin Palmieri

(14:22) I literally like when I first was flying, I was just like, okay, don't have a panic attack. (14:28) Cause if you have a panic attack, it's going to be worse. (14:31) I don't know how, like it's going to make the panic attack worse because you can't go anywhere.(14:35) So like you can't have a panic attack, which is going to make you have an, it's called anticipatory anxiety.

Alan Lazaros

(14:42) What do you want me to do? (14:43) I just don't worry about it.

Kevin Palmieri

(14:45) And, but here's the other thing too. (14:47) Like I'm weird with certain stuff where it's like, people are like, Oh, just take, take a pill. (14:50) It's like, no, I can't, I can't take a pill.(14:52) Have a drink. (14:53) No can't. (14:54) I got to face it.(14:56) That's the other thing too. (14:57) It's like, but that probably made it harder. (15:00) Of course it did.(15:01) I remember this was another one. (15:04) I remember I've told this story before. (15:06) And again, I take ownership.(15:08) Taryn and I went to New York cause Simon Sinek was speaking. (15:11) And I was like, I got to ask this dude a question. (15:13) I don't want to, I don't want to do it.(15:14) I'm afraid something bad is going to happen or I'm going to make a fool of myself. (15:18) I made a fool of myself in front of everybody. (15:20) Of course.(15:21) But it was good. (15:21) Nothing bad happened. (15:22) No, nothing bad happened.(15:23) And to the point where like, I remember I said that and people were like, yeah, it was kind of a, he was kind of a dick. (15:29) It's like, nah, man, my fucking question was bad. (15:31) Like I had a chance to ask this dude a good question.(15:32) It wasn't a good question. (15:33) That's on me more than anything. (15:35) What do you really think?

Alan Lazaros

(15:35) You think it was mostly you? (15:38) Or do you think he's a dick?

Kevin Palmieri

(15:39) No, I don't think he's a dick. (15:40) I don't think I, yeah, no, contextually I didn't necessarily lead with like, Hey, you know, we have a thousand episodes in this podcast and we have a business. (15:49) Like it wasn't that it's probably seemed like I was asking, Hey, if I was going to like, start doing what you're doing, what advice would you give?(15:56) It's like, I'm already pretty far along.

Alan Lazaros

(15:58) You shouldn't do this. (15:59) Don't do it. (16:03) You was right.(16:04) That's funny. (16:05) Don't do it. (16:06) All right.(16:07) I know we got to jump here. (16:08) Exposure therapy. (16:09) This, this requires you to be aware of what you're afraid of.(16:14) One of the biggest issues for me was I didn't know what I was actually afraid of. (16:19) I didn't realize that abandonment or shining was a fear. (16:29) It didn't make any sense.(16:31) And once that was illuminated, it was like, Oh, I am totally mitigating contrast all the time because I'm so uncomfortable with other people's discomfort. (16:45) And we gave a speech one time and I call him Danny daggers. (16:49) This dude is a very insecure man.(16:51) Uh, and he, he doesn't belong at that event, quite frankly. (16:55) And this dude just seems like he fucking hates me. (16:59) And I now understand like you're don't believe in yourself.(17:05) Your life is not working out the way you wanted. (17:07) You're stuck at a dead end job. (17:09) You're miserable.(17:10) And I seem like an arrogant prick to you who was handed everything. (17:15) Like, of course I look like that. (17:18) So it's like, okay, I don't make it.(17:20) Okay. (17:21) Cause it's like, could you get to know me before you fucking judge me? (17:24) Right.(17:24) But I also understand, I guess. (17:26) And more importantly, rather than like, it's okay for him to be a prick. (17:30) It's more like, I just don't have to feed into it now.(17:33) Oh, and you understand why it's not about, yeah, it's just, it's just like, okay. (17:37) And by the way, there's nothing I can do about that. (17:40) So that's very freeing for me where it's, I realize it's completely outside of my circle of concern, a circle of control and circle of influence.(17:47) There's nothing I could possibly do other than the only thing I can do to make him feel better is be less. (17:53) And that's the one thing I'm not willing to do. (17:55) So like at the toastmaster speech, I keep mentioning, I just was like, okay, if anyone here feels bad, that's, that's on them.(18:01) It is what it is. (18:02) I'm just going to do the best I can do. (18:04) I'm going to add as much value as humanly possible.(18:06) I'm going to give as many disclaimers as I fucking can. (18:09) And it went awesome. (18:10) And if you don't like me, that is okay now.(18:14) But back then it was not okay.

Kevin Palmieri

(18:16) It was like, this what's, what's that been? (18:18) Okay. (18:18) So for you, it hasn't been like, I'm going to go do X activity that scares me.(18:22) It's been, I'm going to be myself because that scares me.

Alan Lazaros

(18:25) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(18:25) How has that, because you've gotten exposure therapy to that over the last, especially last probably what, three years.

Alan Lazaros

(18:33) Yeah. (18:33) I still have to override it all the time on this podcast all the time. (18:37) Like saying I'm a better speaker than everyone at toastmasters that toastmasters group.(18:42) Not everyone at toastmasters, although that might be true too. (18:44) I don't know that you're not allowed to say that you can't say that. (18:47) Like my brain is like, don't fucking say that.(18:50) Like, I'll give you an example. (18:51) So in, in high school everything came really easy to me in school and we had a really dumb person in AP calc. (19:03) He was, he was an idiot, I think.(19:05) And I'm a lot smarter than him. (19:12) It's not even close. (19:13) I know that he fucking knows that, but you're not allowed to say that because you'll get bullied and you're not even allowed to go near it because he's so insecure.(19:21) So I got bullied like a lot, even though, and I think people are really insecure about their intelligence and I've never been insecure about my intelligence. (19:33) I don't even know what the fuck that would be like. (19:36) So if people are really insecure about something that's, that comes naturally to you, they're going to like hate you.(19:44) And that makes sense to you.

Kevin Palmieri

(19:47) Of course.

Alan Lazaros

(19:48) I've never hated someone for being better than me at something.

Kevin Palmieri

(19:50) Because nobody's better than you at anything. (19:52) That's not true. (19:52) Very few people are better than you at something.(19:54) It's not the fucking pattern. (19:57) You, have you ever hate, not hated, have you ever looked at somebody differently because they were worse than you at something? (20:02) Definitely.(20:03) Yeah. (20:04) I don't. (20:05) Almost ever.(20:06) Dude, did you ever hear me talk about somebody who's worse than me at something negatively? (20:10) Almost never. (20:11) Because I understand.(20:13) Yeah, I understand. (20:14) And you're supposed to be. (20:15) You're not supposed to be better than me at this.(20:17) That's an interesting breakthrough. (20:18) If you're better than me at this, like good fuck good for you, but I shouldn't be better at people at their thing. (20:25) I don't.(20:26) Yeah. (20:26) I don't. (20:27) I mean, that's, that's a you thing.(20:28) None of them thing. (20:29) Yeah. (20:30) You know, in the best way, in the best way.

Alan Lazaros

(20:32) I guess it just makes it harder. (20:35) You're in the minority. (20:36) That's it.(20:37) You're in the minority. (20:38) And, and, uh, Jennifer Lopez, for example, she gave a speech at an empowered woman conference thing. (20:44) And I caught a little bit of it.(20:46) And she's just like, I've been told my whole life. (20:48) I could never do this. (20:49) I was always told, you know, women aren't supposed to, and, and let's, you know, Latino women from the Bronx and all this stuff.(20:54) And it's like, yeah, good for you. (20:56) That's how I feel. (20:58) That's exactly how I feel.(21:00) It's like people dislike you for no fucking reason. (21:04) What? (21:05) Cause you're better than them.(21:06) It's not your, it's not my fault. (21:08) You suck at things. (21:10) Right.(21:10) And it's, it's like, it's so bothersome. (21:14) Like, why, why do you get mad at people for being good at things? (21:19) It's, it makes no sense to me, but I know what you're saying is, well, you're good at everything.(21:22) It's like, yeah, but I wasn't always. (21:25) And I do think that's fucking, it's always sucked. (21:34) You asked me how it is.(21:35) It sucks. (21:36) It really sucks. (21:37) Like that's why I love coaching because it benefits the other person for me to be great.(21:43) And so I'm, I have permission to be great in a coaching setting.

Kevin Palmieri

(21:47) That's the weird thing about it is like most of my fears are the things I have to face alone for better or worse. (21:54) Like you can, you can hold my hand quote unquote to help me get on the plane, you know, just as an example, but like, dude, it's all internal. (22:03) Yeah.(22:04) Like I got to go get on this plane and fucking figure it out for the next seven hours. (22:09) However long the flight is like, okay, figure it out. (22:13) And it almost doesn't, I mean the judgment part, obviously, but it's different.(22:18) It's judgment of, they think I suck at this, not they think I'm great at this. (22:22) I want them to think I'm great. (22:23) Cause that's the opposite of the way I've felt.

Alan Lazaros

(22:24) Yeah. (22:25) Does it, does it make you feel like, like, do you feel bad for JLo for like everyone kind of being really disrespectful to her for, for basically no reason? (22:37) Do I feel bad?(22:39) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(22:39) I don't feel good. (22:40) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(22:41) That sucks. (22:42) Okay. (22:42) Yeah.(22:43) But you don't, you're like, so for example, those ladies that you mentioned at the airport, like, yeah, dude, they wouldn't react the same way to me. (22:53) They might've reacted positively. (22:55) That's potentially true, but it would, they'd be more guarded for sure.(22:59) You're like, and I've noticed this working with you for nine coming up on 10 years. (23:04) Like nobody goes out of their way to shit on you.

Kevin Palmieri

(23:08) Well, we talked about the underdog thing, right? (23:11) It's like, I don't know. (23:13) I went, and again, this is, we got to go after this.(23:16) Cause we have another episode to record. (23:17) I went into, so where I stayed is like one of the biggest trucking hubs in wherever I was probably. (23:25) Yeah.(23:26) And I went into this like really big gas station, dude, this place had, it had a, you know, you can get forties of alcohol. (23:32) It had a 40 of Dr. Pepper diet, Dr. Pepper. (23:35) I was like, this is fucking legit.(23:37) I'm going to, I'm going to move here. (23:38) And when I was checking out, the lady said, do you want a trash bag for your stuff? (23:43) And I was like, wait, no, I get, no, I'm good.(23:46) And she's like, you're going to drive around with that in your truck. (23:48) And I was like, you think I'm a truck driver? (23:50) And she said, yeah, what do you, what do you do?(23:52) You're at a truck stop. (23:53) And I was like, oh shit. (23:54) Fuck yeah.(23:54) Okay. (23:54) I can pass as a truck driver. (23:55) Interesting.(23:56) I don't, that would never happen for you because you would have your cash. (24:01) Yeah. (24:02) Brother, I was wearing a t-shirt.(24:04) I was wearing underarm or sweatpants. (24:05) I was wearing sandals with socks. (24:07) I could see it.(24:08) My hair is disheveled. (24:10) I've been working all day. (24:11) Like, you know, I can see it.(24:13) So I, that is a good example of that.

Alan Lazaros

(24:16) So everyone has one of these and that's what we'll end with. (24:22) Are you afraid? (24:25) Are you afraid of being worse than or better than?(24:29) Yeah. (24:30) Yeah. (24:30) I don't have any fear of being worse than.

Kevin Palmieri

(24:32) That's my comfort zone. (24:34) You know, what's fucked up too. (24:36) And again, this is selfish, but you'll understand you not wanting to be better than has affected me in the feeling worse than because you would literally make our lives harder.

Alan Lazaros

(24:48) So you wouldn't shine and I wouldn't shine either, but our relationship wouldn't exist if I didn't have that. (24:57) And the growth that came from that is I don't even know if I know how to, the other problem is I don't, I've never judged anyone for being better than, so I don't know what comes off arrogant. (25:07) I don't know how to, I don't, do you know what I mean?(25:10) It's like if I've never been like Matt Hackinson was the man, right? (25:15) We talked about him and I just looked up to him. (25:18) I didn't have anything negative to say.(25:19) Like it was all positive. (25:21) Other people think he's an arrogant prick for sure. (25:23) At times, Matt, like for sure.(25:26) And I know that now, but how would I know what comes off a certain way? (25:34) And so at the end of the day, it's just this like unwinnable game kind of where you basically just have to have the courage to be fully you. (25:41) And there's nothing you can do about people's opinions.(25:44) There's nothing I can do. (25:45) All I can do is be the best. (25:47) Dude, I've spent my entire life trying to be the best man I can be.(25:51) And it doesn't matter. (25:54) It really has been alarming. (25:55) That's been really hard for me to accept is like, it makes me feel great.(26:00) My life's magnificent. (26:01) I love my life. (26:02) Inside of me, it matters.(26:03) It's everything to me. (26:05) In Emilia and I's relationship, it's everything to me. (26:07) In this, it means a lot.(26:09) But like outside of this, nobody thinks I'm a good person. (26:14) It's fucking mind blowing. (26:15) It's literally mind blowing.(26:17) It's like, oh my God, I'm doing way more good than you. (26:19) Why do you hate me? (26:21) You know, I'm like helping kids.(26:22) Like, I don't, I don't even know if I'll ever get why you don't think I'm a good person. (26:27) And one of my clients is like, well, you look a lot like a bond villain, you know, like a genius maniacal bond villain. (26:33) And he's like, I mean that with love.(26:34) It's like, what does that mean? (26:36) You know?

Kevin Palmieri

(26:39) I don't, I think at the end of the day, the simplest answer is not about them. (26:44) Sorry. (26:44) It's not about you, but that doesn't fix it.(26:47) It's almost like there's nothing I could do. (26:50) I think the only thing you could do is just do what you'd be proud of. (26:54) I think that's what you're doing.(26:55) That is what I'm doing. (26:56) Yeah. (26:56) Because that's the only winnable game because other people's perceptions are always going to be other people's perceptions.

Alan Lazaros

(27:02) Yeah. (27:02) The point of this is you have to face your fear. (27:05) So my fear, I have to just face forever and own it.(27:09) And you, your fear, you have to face and own it forever. (27:11) Everybody. (27:13) And we're doing a masterclass on this tonight.(27:16) Whatever your core wound is, mine is obviously, you know, being bullied and disliked and attacked. (27:22) Uh, yours is not being good enough, not being capable enough, you know, whatever, not being successful. (27:31) You just have to face like, one thing I noticed is you are, you don't want to look bad.(27:37) You don't like to look bad. (27:38) You're overcoming that a ton, but you dude, you had to overcome all that to get here.

Kevin Palmieri

(27:43) I don't like to look worse than I am. (27:47) That's the difference is like, I don't, the reason I don't like to be late is because I know I could be early. (27:52) The reason I don't like to be underprepped is because I know I could like, there are certain things where I don't, it's the fucking, it's not real.(28:01) If I'm out of shape, I always look worse than I am. (28:04) I know because you like it.

Alan Lazaros

(28:09) It's for sure. (28:11) That's not, it doesn't help me in success. (28:13) No, no, no.(28:14) But I mean, you, you personally, I would say I'm not afraid of that.

Kevin Palmieri

(28:17) Yeah. (28:17) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(28:18) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(28:18) That's like my deepest fear to a detriment. (28:20) Yeah. (28:21) That's the thing is like, this is way more complicated and that's why I love these episodes.(28:26) It's way more complicated than I'm afraid of flying. (28:28) Like that's one thing, but there's so many things and so many, so many of it, so many of them are invisible. (28:34) Nobody else will ever know.(28:36) Nobody will ever even see the progress because they don't know it exists. (28:40) Like this is the jam. (28:42) We don't talk about fear enough.

Alan Lazaros

(28:43) Do a fear audit, write down at least three, write down at least three things you're afraid of. (28:51) And then assuming they're not life threatening, do a little exposure therapy. (28:57) This podcast episode was a little exposure therapy because people, people get really mad when you talk about other people.(29:04) And it's like, I, I, I think that calling a bully an asshole is good. (29:09) Same. (29:10) He was an asshole.(29:11) Like, I think it's, you know, it's like, why is it so mean to say someone's dumb? (29:18) It's like, they are dumb.

Kevin Palmieri

(29:19) I think it's usually, I think the problem is it's like a, it's a bullying thing.

Alan Lazaros

(29:25) No, no, I know. (29:26) Yeah, exactly. (29:27) And, and, but that's one thing that's always been hard is the truth is something that everyone else dances around because they're also insecure about it.(29:34) It's like, why is it, why is it mean to say someone who's not smart is not smart? (29:40) Why is it mean to say someone who's not good looking is not good looking. (29:46) And I've always wanted to just live in objective truth.(29:48) Like I do with myself, and then why does someone who say that says that they're intelligent, they're automatically arrogant. (29:57) It's like, what if they are intelligent? (30:00) It's just the whole thing, right?

Kevin Palmieri

(30:02) It comes off arrogant. (30:03) It doesn't to me anymore, but I understand why it does. (30:06) Yeah.(30:07) Because I'm not insecure about my intelligence. (30:11) Like that's a piece of it.

Alan Lazaros

(30:13) And if you were, it would be villainized me.

Kevin Palmieri

(30:15) I wouldn't like it. (30:17) I don't know if I'd villainize you. (30:19) Yeah.(30:20) It's something.

Alan Lazaros

(30:21) Yeah. (30:21) I'd feel uncomfortable. (30:23) And then the other thing too, is like, anyone who is achieving their goals and dreams and getting better every day, like you do lose your relationships.(30:32) There is an inverse correlation between becoming more effective and better in real life and the social world. (30:40) Like everyone can think of someone who's a lot of fun, who they really like, who they root for. (30:48) And that person is probably not that exceptional.(30:51) Now think of someone who's exceptional, just fucking extraordinary. (30:56) You probably struggle to like them. (30:58) You probably struggle to believe they're a good person that you definitely struggle to believe they're a better person than you.(31:03) And they might be. (31:04) Amelia is a better person than anyone I know by far, but people can't believe that because she's not, um, because she's so exceptional.

Kevin Palmieri

(31:15) Well, I think it's that she's not what people, they, it's not what they think they value whether or not they actually value. (31:21) That's a different conversation, but like.

Alan Lazaros

(31:22) Yeah. (31:23) Objective reality is not even close to social reality, social reality and objective reality are very, very, very, very off. (31:30) And that's why you almost have to, you and I both had to decide we want to win in real life, not in the social world.(31:37) And, and I know we got to go. (31:39) This is the last thing I'll say. (31:40) And I actually mean it in high school.(31:41) You do, you fall for it. (31:43) I care more about what other people think of me than what I think of me. (31:46) You fall for it.(31:48) Everybody in high school falls for that shit. (31:49) I did. (31:50) You kidding me?(31:52) And then you grow the fuck up and you realize that that is the worst game in the long, sad history of games that you can not win. (32:00) And hopefully you flip the script and you go, you know what? (32:05) I can't win that game.(32:06) I'm going to care what I think of me and who I become. (32:11) I'm going to care about that more than what people think of me. (32:13) And if you do that, your real life will be magnificent, but your social life might be pretty terrible.

Kevin Palmieri

(32:20) So the lesson, opt out of games that you can't win, but this is not a game, fear chasing, exposure therapy. (32:25) This is a game you can win. (32:27) Like you can win this over time.(32:28) It takes time. (32:29) It takes effort. (32:30) It sucks.(32:30) It's uncomfortable, but you will be grateful you did it. (32:33) And it will be worth it that I can promise you. (32:35) All right.(32:35) Alan for coaching next level fitness accountability group, masterclasses, book club, all that happy jazz. (32:40) As always, we love you. (32:41) Appreciate you grateful for each and every one of you.(32:43) If you are as committed as you say you are to getting to the next level, make sure you tune in tomorrow. (32:46) Cause we will be here every single day to help you get there. (32:48) Keep leveling up to reach your full potential.(32:51) Thanks for joining us for another episode of next level university. (32:55) We love connecting with the next level family.

Alan Lazaros

(32:58) We mean it when we say family, if you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. (33:03) Everything you need to get ahold of us is in the show notes. (33:06) Thank you again.

Kevin Palmieri

(33:07) And we will talk to you tomorrow.