There Are Levels To Being “Productive” (2524)

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In this episode of Next Level University, hosts Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros break down why having more free time does not always lead to greater productivity. Without structure, necessity, and a clear standard, open space can turn into distraction, minor tasks, and momentum lost. Drawing from their own work with demanding calendars, clients, business responsibilities, and years of studying performance, Kevin and Alan examine the role pressure plays in personal growth. They explain how to distinguish meaningful work from work that simply feels busy, why aligned demand can strengthen discipline, and how to assess whether your goals match the life you say you want.

This conversation is not about glorifying exhaustion. It is about using time, effort, and responsibility with greater intention. If you have ever felt busy without feeling productive, or wondered why success can create more pressure instead of less, this episode will challenge how you think about freedom, focus, and long-term fulfillment.

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Show notes:
(1:59) Why free time can reduce productivity
(3:41) Important work Vs. Meaningful work
(5:15) How necessity drives performance
(8:36) The long-term cost of wasted time
(10:41) The misconception about success and freedom
(16:34) Why meaningful work still feels difficult
(21:25) Building a life through honest tradeoffs
(23:04) Outro

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Transcript

Kevin Palmieri

(0:00) I actually believe that there is a way where you can schedule yourself to have too much time where you think you're going to be productive, but you're actually going to waste all of that time and be the opposite of productive.

Alan Lazaros

(0:12) In all my productivity studies, the only way to do the most important activities is to be under high necessity and high demand with a deadline.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:23) Welcome to Next Level University. (0:25) I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri. (0:27) And I'm your co-host, Alan Lazaros.(0:30) At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros

(0:37) Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health, and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:43) We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits, and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros

(0:59) Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free. (1:06) Welcome to Next Level University.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:11) Next on the nation today for episode number 2,524, there are levels to being productive. (1:19) You and I were discussing today because you, for the first time in a long period of time, had a lot of space in your calendar.

Alan Lazaros

(1:27) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:28) What did that highlight for you? (1:30) Because that's why we're doing this episode.

Alan Lazaros

(1:33) I tell this story years ago. (1:36) I don't know how many years ago. (1:38) Gladiator 2 came out and I ended up watching for like something crazy, like two hours on a Saturday morning, these interviews of Denzel Washington and the main character and all these different film interviews and all this stuff.(1:54) I just kind of shook myself out of it and was like, what a giant waste of time that was. (1:59) It's like, Alan, you want to build the self, build the family, build the business, build the businesses. (2:06) You want to build your life, build your goals, build your dreams.(2:08) You can't just sit on your ass and watch other people live their dreams. (2:13) You have to go build. (2:14) Now, today I have more space in my calendar than normal.(2:19) The week was very front loaded and it's the first time I've had this much space in maybe a year or something. (2:29) Crazy. (2:31) Earlier today I was like, so I had this timer that I always carry on me and I started tracking my deep focus time.(2:39) So today, 60 plus 39 plus 15, I have 1.9 hours of deep focus time so far today. (2:47) And deep focus time for me is me alone in solitude behind the scenes doing important work. (2:54) Okay.(2:55) So what I realized is with an open calendar, I had a lot more time to think of things that could improve, to start thinking about the company, to start thinking about my life, to start thinking about my teens, my twenties, my thirties, my forties, my fifties, my sixties, my seventies, next steps, Emilie and I, you and I, NLU, the we, how it all works, community, the business model. (3:19) So my brain, and then all of a sudden I started looking at, okay, well this in the house isn't done and this in the house isn't done. (3:25) And maybe I don't need to keep my toothbrush there.(3:27) I can keep it over here. (3:28) And I'm thinking to myself, like, what can I improve? (3:30) What can I improve?(3:31) What can I improve? (3:31) What can I improve? (3:32) What can I improve?(3:32) And I'm always doing that. (3:35) But I noticed that I was doing and improving things that are like important, but not that important. (3:41) So, so if zero to 10 level of importance, urgent significance, important means it's high value activity.(3:48) Urgent means it has a deadline and significance means it'll pay dividends forever. (3:56) It's like, I cut my nails earlier. (3:58) That's important.(4:00) It's not urgent. (4:01) They weren't that long that I, when you have space and time and I had this really interesting moment, I was like, okay, so it's been like a year since you've had this much time, which is wild. (4:12) And you aren't like up against that much right now.(4:16) Not as much as usual. (4:17) You're not as much in the pressure cooker. (4:19) I wonder if this is how other people feel.(4:24) We have the top 10 distractions, THC, nicotine, TV, social media, pornography, all these video games, blah, blah, blah, blah. (4:33) We have a digital asset. (4:35) We'll put that in the show notes.(4:37) And I was on a podcast yesterday and I talked about it. (4:39) She asked for the asset. (4:40) And I was like, you know, that is a really important asset because she said, if you could do one thing, what would you do to help someone?(4:46) I said, you got to get rid of the toxins. (4:48) You got to get rid of something. (4:49) You got to delete the stuff that's ruining your life.(4:51) Those 10 things are ruining people's lives. (4:53) I have one client who has like five of them. (4:55) I was like, what's the biggest one?(4:56) Boom. (4:56) Let's knock down gambling. (4:58) She's like, well, we go to the casino here, here.(5:00) I said, okay, we're going to get rid of the casino. (5:03) Which, what's one casino you're going to, you go to most? (5:05) She told me.(5:06) So let's stop going there. (5:08) Just delete it. (5:09) Gone.(5:10) No matter what happens, you're not allowed to go to that casino. (5:12) Done. (5:12) Your life just got better.(5:15) All right. (5:15) So my point of this whole thing is I wonder how many people are under enough pressure to actually perform optimally. (5:22) And the answer is if I'm over here fucking off, when I have one hour that's not taken, that must mean that a lot of people are very much drifting around, not really getting important work done.(5:36) And I told you this before we hit record, you have to, if you want to be really successful, I've noticed this with my most successful clients, my most successful mentors, they're never just, they're never not up against something. (5:52) They're never not up against a calendar or up against a deadline or have a team relying on or a client relying on them. (5:59) They're always up against something.(6:00) There's very high necessity. (6:01) We've talked about that before. (6:03) They're in the pressure cooker almost all the time.(6:06) The end of the quarter, the end of the month, we got to close the month strong. (6:09) We got to, there's always something they're up against. (6:11) And if you don't like being in the pressure cooker, cause it does suck.(6:16) It's very frustrating. (6:17) It really does suck. (6:19) Not always, but a lot of the time.(6:21) Then you're pretty much wasting time just because it's human nature. (6:26) Like if shit hit the fan right now and one of my pets was hurt, we would immediately take them to the vet and I'd rearrange my whole day and everything else would become unimportant. (6:36) I wouldn't worry about my nails.(6:38) I think that in the absence of important work, everything seems important in comparison. (6:44) And then you end up not focusing on things that are essential and you end up having this sort of majoring in minor things, bullshit life that really is not super productive.

Kevin Palmieri

(6:58) I think the way you start the day is super important because if you, if you look at your calendar and you're like, Oh, I have four, a four hour slot later, I'm going to sleep in, I'm going to make breakfast. (7:12) I'm going to wait a little bit before I go to the gym. (7:14) The problem is you have just completely adjusted your normal behavior.(7:18) Yeah. (7:19) And I, I'm telling you, man, I think that's one of the most common things because if your behavior changes due to your calendar, you're kind of Jeffed.

Alan Lazaros

(7:30) Well, you're, you're living where, where, and this is the thing. (7:39) If you have an empty calendar, you're most likely not super productive as much as you could be with a lot of demand on you, which means you're probably not increasing demand. (7:52) I talked about this in group coaching.(7:54) It's sort of like a 12 week peak performance sort of bootcamp now. (7:58) And I said, we do live in a world where the healthy get healthier, the wealthy get wealthier and the in love, get more in love. (8:05) And the reason why is momentum like, dude, it's been a long time since I've had this much empty space.(8:11) I wasn't prepared to use it optimally. (8:15) Now I still got up and did my peak performance, planner. (8:18) I still did.(8:19) I still got 1.9 hours of deep focus where I didn't do anything dumb, but I'm sitting there in the bathroom, cutting my nails. (8:26) Right. (8:26) And I'm just like, what the hell are you doing?(8:28) Like, go, go work, go build the man, go build the business. (8:31) And I just had this moment of, I bet you, this is happening to people all the time. (8:36) And you don't even know it until your time is gone.(8:39) You don't even know it until decades later, when you look back and go, wow, I really squandered like the only time I had. (8:46) And I don't think people typically regret building meaningful things. (8:50) I think they typically regret squandering time on gambling and bullshit.(8:54) And I, we used to talk about reverse engineering regret all the time. (8:58) When you're 40, 50, 60, 70, are you going to want to look back and look at a life that you built? (9:03) That was by design where you really invested your time, effort and money wisely.(9:07) I'm not saying you can't take time for yourself. (9:09) It's very different at the end of a long productive day to have great R and R and a great meal. (9:15) That's that's, this is not, you have to be productive 24 seven.(9:20) This is more like you have time, effort and money. (9:23) And the more effectively you use that time, effort and money, the more successful you will be. (9:29) And the more successful you are, the more demand you'll get.(9:32) Successful people get more successful typically. (9:34) And it's because people want to be around successful people. (9:37) We have more demand than we've ever had.(9:38) I'm very grateful. (9:40) And I think that if, if I didn't have the acceptance that demand is good, like you and I have been talking a lot lately, you're in more demand than you've ever been by far. (9:50) You're traveling all over the place.(9:52) You've got clients on clients. (9:53) It's all good. (9:53) If you were, yes, we get frustrated and we, and we vent, but we're still grateful for that.(10:00) If you weren't grateful for that, you would probably resent it and then not attract more of it. (10:06) And I don't mean attract. (10:07) I mean, you wouldn't do a good job with the current demand.(10:09) Why would you get more demand if you aren't even doing a good job with the existing demand? (10:13) And, and when I had a full calendar and you said, brother, I don't feel that productive. (10:18) It's because you were going through this sort of, okay, I have an empty calendar now.(10:21) I'm used to going on five podcasts a day. (10:24) Now I got to figure out how to use my time effectively, which you obviously did. (10:28) Otherwise you wouldn't be overwhelmed.(10:29) Now overwhelm is a good thing if it's aligned overwhelm. (10:35) And if you're not overwhelmed, you almost have to use that time to create overwhelm in a way.

Kevin Palmieri

(10:41) It is weird. (10:42) The whole thing is very strange. (10:44) The whole thing is very strange because I think what maybe the common belief, and I think I probably had this belief for sure in the beginning is you get, so you start off with a bunch of time, then you use that time to become successful.(11:00) And then over time that success gives you time back. (11:04) And then somehow when you get time back, you still get more successful.

Alan Lazaros

(11:08) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(11:09) And I think that's like the final, maybe the final phase is when you're, you have so much momentum. (11:13) I'm talking like when you've been doing whatever you've been doing for 60 years. (11:17) Yeah.(11:18) When you're 90, I don't know, you're going to probably buy back some of your time and you're going to go fishing with your great grandkids or whatever the hell it's going to be. (11:25) But I think that's like a common thing is I think I fell in that to a degree because one of the reasons I had so much time is because a lot of things were not running without me. (11:35) I'm not saying that, but a lot of the things were delegated effectively to people that did a really good job with that stuff, which then allowed me to go do the next level of being productive, which means now I'm working with people that I can't delegate off to somebody else.(11:52) Like I'm the person, it's my responsibility. (11:54) I'm feeling the pressure. (11:55) I'm the person, the last, the buck stops with me.(11:59) If it doesn't get done, it's on me. (12:00) It's not on somebody else. (12:01) But if I didn't have the time to your point to do that, I never would have done it.(12:07) Sometimes I'm convinced of this. (12:08) Sometimes what seems like a lack of productivity is actually you being productive and proactive for the next level of success. (12:16) I don't think it's often that because it's a fine line, but I'm, dude, I'm, I'll give myself this.(12:23) I do think I'm pretty good at proactively preparing for the next level.

Alan Lazaros

(12:29) Yeah. (12:29) And I think that's what I'm doing too. (12:32) Same, but I, it's been a long time since I've had the time and space to prepare for the next level without it just coming, which is good.(12:42) That's actually a good problem to have. (12:45) What was the misunderstanding? (12:48) Because when I look back, I always used to say, some people live to work.(12:55) Some people work to live. (12:58) I think everyone's one of those two. (13:00) And you can tell you're now on the end of, I live to work in other people's eyes.(13:06) And I am too. (13:07) I live to work. (13:08) There's other people who work to live.(13:10) And you can tell when you meet them because their goal is to live more and work less. (13:16) Your goal is to work more aligned and live within it, right? (13:22) And syntax matters.(13:23) Is work first or is living first? (13:26) And a lot of people say you got to live first and work second. (13:29) It depends on your goals.(13:32) It depends on your goals. (13:33) And it depends on how meaningful your work is too, by the way, because if you have deeply meaningful work, I'm not going to say the quote of, if you love what you do, you never work a day in your life. (13:42) That is absolute horseshit.(13:43) What is true, however, is if you have meaningful work that is deeply important to you, that's aligned, you will not resent it as much. (13:54) You might not resent it at all, actually. (13:57) And you're going to want more of it.(13:58) If you do pick the right thing that is actually profitable, I actually think that you'll want to work more. (14:04) But again, I'm projecting. (14:06) Syntax.(14:07) If you had to pick syntax just in this hypothetical scenario, do you live to work or do you work to live?

Kevin Palmieri

(14:14) I still think I'm work to live.

Alan Lazaros

(14:18) Really?

Kevin Palmieri

(14:19) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(14:20) Okay.

Kevin Palmieri

(14:20) I, I don't want, I'm in a hotel room right now. (14:22) Like I don't, I'd rather not be, I'd rather be at home. (14:27) But you are.(14:28) Yeah. (14:29) But I, I consider it a sacrifice. (14:32) I consider it a sacrifice.(14:33) I think if by definition it feels like a sacrifice, then that is a suggestion that you would rather be doing the other thing.

Alan Lazaros

(14:39) Maybe, you know, so you're choosing the other one because of your goals, even though it's not how you're wired.

Kevin Palmieri

(14:47) Always. (14:47) Yeah. (14:47) Yeah.(14:47) And I've been very honest about that, right?

Alan Lazaros

(14:49) Like, yeah, I think you're one of the only people I used to go on podcasts. (14:52) That's a rarity. (14:53) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(14:53) What gets you out of bed in the morning? (14:55) It's like, I trust me though. (14:56) It's not, the answer is not as sexy.(14:57) I have a watch that wakes me up. (14:59) Like, yeah, but like your goals and stuff, like you jump out of bed. (15:01) I said, no, that's fucking stupid.(15:03) No, Alan does. (15:05) I think Alan gets pulled out of bed. (15:06) I crawl out of bed.

Alan Lazaros

(15:08) If you were to stay in bed all day, how long would it take for your higher self to rip you out of bed and say, get your fucking shit together?

Kevin Palmieri

(15:17) Longer than you think. (15:19) Really? (15:20) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(15:21) Yeah. (15:21) For me, it's not long. (15:23) The only, for Amelia, it's even shorter.(15:25) It's very, I mean, to be a productive member of society is the goal. (15:30) Anyways, everyone should, should assess that for themselves though.

Kevin Palmieri

(15:33) I agree.

Alan Lazaros

(15:33) Is like, how long could you go away before you miss being the change you wish to see in the world, building something, creating something, doing something productive. (15:44) Like I actually think that what people, people complain so much. (15:47) It's like, I'm so overwhelmed.(15:48) I'm so burnt out. (15:49) I'm burning out. (15:50) I see you.(15:51) I see you. (15:52) But those are the people that are in the fight, live in life to the fullest. (15:56) It's got to be something you like though.(15:58) Yes. (15:59) Yeah. (16:00) I didn't like engineering school.(16:02) I just, but I liked being, it's the, I know this is a silly quote, but what is it? (16:08) Muhammad Ali. (16:08) I didn't like, I hated every 4am workout, but I loved being world champion.

Kevin Palmieri

(16:13) That. (16:14) Yeah. (16:14) Yeah.(16:15) But, but that's what I'm saying is the world champion part. (16:17) Like if you don't want to be a boxer, that ain't for you. (16:19) None of that.(16:20) Agreed.

Alan Lazaros

(16:20) Agreed.

Kevin Palmieri

(16:21) That. (16:21) But everyone should have something like that. (16:25) Yeah.(16:25) That's the goal.

Alan Lazaros

(16:26) Yeah. (16:26) And, and if you haven't found that yet, you really should. (16:31) But I also don't want to, I know we got to go here in a second.(16:34) I'm concerned about us talking about this because I think some people will listen and say, well, like you're, I call them dabblers. (16:40) They do the thing and they're like, well, this isn't my thing. (16:42) And they do the thing.(16:43) And this isn't my thing. (16:44) I do the thing. (16:44) And this isn't my thing.(16:45) When in reality you are projecting what you think podcasting is for Kevin or what coaching is for me onto yourself. (16:52) Like just because I adore coaching and it's the most meaningful work I've ever done. (16:57) And it's what I'm going to do for the rest of my goddamn life does not mean I don't look at my calendar sometimes and go, Oh my God, fuck.(17:05) And so when you start doing your thing and it sucks, I think some people are like, well, this must not be my thing that no, no, no. (17:14) Everything sucks. (17:15) What you got to do is pick something that sucks the least.

Kevin Palmieri

(17:19) I like exercise. (17:20) I like the gym. (17:21) If you saw me today in the gym, just struggling, like leaning against the machine, just half falling asleep.(17:27) You would not think I liked it very much.

Alan Lazaros

(17:29) Yeah. (17:30) Understandable. (17:30) What percentage of the time do you think you like the gym and are, uh, in it and inflow and, and pumped to be there?(17:41) 50, 50 probably. (17:43) Yeah. (17:43) I think mine's probably like 80, 20.(17:47) Yeah. (17:47) 80, 20, probably one in four out of every five workouts, but don't get it twisted. (17:53) That 20% is all like, always going to be there.(17:57) Even if you get it to 95, five, there's never going to be something that you want to do every day.

Kevin Palmieri

(18:00) I don't think, well, I also feel like if you're at 95, five, the five sucks way worse. (18:06) Like if you love it so much that you notice days where you don't love it, it probably sucks pretty bad those days.

Alan Lazaros

(18:12) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(18:12) Just like 50, 50. (18:14) It's like the days are that are bad. (18:15) They're not terrible.

Alan Lazaros

(18:17) When we ran a high performance habits, you locked in on necessity. (18:23) You've talked about necessity ever since this was six years ago now, maybe seven. (18:29) What didn't you understand about necessity?(18:31) Because you used to, I remember when you were on the road and you were like, I, you hated it when there was no work, but yet you also hated it when you were on the road 10 months out of the year.

Kevin Palmieri

(18:41) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(18:41) So which one do you hate more being broke?

Kevin Palmieri

(18:48) Yeah. (18:49) Being broke. (18:49) But the problem was like, it just, it, the heart, it depends on what you value, right?(18:55) Dude. (18:56) When I was not on the road, I could, I could go to the gym for as long as I wanted. (19:00) Jim was paid for, right?(19:01) That's coming out of the account. (19:02) That was okay. (19:03) I could hang out with people that there, there were different options.(19:08) When I was on the road, I was accomplishing one of those things really well. (19:11) I was making good money, but my mental health, my sleep, I was working out, but it was a fucking challenge. (19:16) That was all super, super hard.

Alan Lazaros

(19:18) Yeah. (19:18) Which one did you had to pick?

Kevin Palmieri

(19:21) Being on the road. (19:22) Look, I'm doing it right now. (19:24) I'm literally doing what I hated for, but it's way more aligned now.

Alan Lazaros

(19:29) Yeah. (19:29) There's, there's something to that. (19:31) I think that there's an acceptance piece of having 40 plus clients, one-on-one clients is harder than having 30, but I wouldn't choose 30.(19:49) And I think that that's important to always ask yourself, cause what if I would choose 30? (19:55) That means I need to change my approach for sure. (19:59) Cause I'm going for 50, baby.(20:01) And who knows, maybe I'll go to 60. (20:04) We'll see based on my current calendar, I can do 70. (20:06) I'm joking.(20:07) No, but the truth is, is like, that's what you got to ask yourself. (20:10) And you have to ask yourself holistically where it's yeah. (20:14) Coaching 40 people is really hard, but it's better than coaching less and having less income and having less impact and having less success.(20:28) So it's almost like, well, no current self doesn't want to do this eight hour day back-to-backs, no bathroom breaks. (20:37) However, I want to be living a life that is increasing and getting better over time. (20:42) And I just think that this whole demand is high.(20:46) I don't know how to handle it yet. (20:47) I'm going to level up so I can handle it. (20:49) Then I'm going to try to get more demand whenever there is free space, supply and demand, supply and demand, supply and demand.(20:57) You should be getting more and more and more in demand. (20:59) And you mentioned when you're 90, like if you're in your thirties, you're, you're supposed to be at your peak productivity years, 30, 40, 50. (21:09) Those are your prime productivity years.(21:10) If you look at the stats, don't squander those scrolling, like build something when you're 90, you'll have a chance. (21:19) If you do it right to like buy back time. (21:22) And again, no one can guarantee you live to 90.(21:24) So there's that whole thing too. (21:25) But yeah, it's, it's, you gotta play, you gotta play this game where you maximize your quality of life, not from the frame of like a lifestyle, but from the frame of how you feel about yourself, self-respect, self-worth, self-belief, and the life that you want to live. (21:42) Because Emily and I were looking at properties and some of these properties are like really excessive and we can afford them.(21:51) And it's like, okay, that's awesome. (21:54) If we do buy this home, that means we cannot miss a trick in business. (21:59) We need to keep like working as much as we're working.(22:02) Is that worth it to us? (22:04) Is that worth it to us? (22:05) And if it's not, then let's not buy a $1.4 million fucking house. (22:09) Like let's do a $900,000 house and, and you know, have more lifestyle. (22:14) And you have to have that honest conversation because of course everyone wants a mansion, but do you want what comes with a mansion, which is the demand of being house poor, if you're not on it. (22:24) And I think that that's just something that we all have to think about for ourselves, because if you don't like to work, do not buy a $1.4 million house, because that's what people who buy those houses do. (22:34) They either work or they have generational wealth. (22:37) And so luckily, Emily and I love to work.

Kevin Palmieri

(22:39) There is such thing as too much necessity for sure. (22:41) Yeah. (22:41) Paint yourself into a corner.(22:42) That's not good. (22:43) All right. (22:43) If you have a very high level of necessity and you're looking for a coach, you can be Alan's 117th client.(22:48) Reach out to Alan and he'll take care of you. (22:51) Yes, he has a lot of clients, but he treats his clients very well. (22:54) Yes, I am joking.(22:55) And then if one of the things you're focused on gaining more necessity with is fitness accountability, we have the Next Level Fitness Accountability Group. (23:01) Reach out to Alan and or myself and we will let you in. (23:04) As always, we love you.(23:05) Appreciate you. (23:05) Grateful for each and every one of you. (23:07) If you are as committed as you say you are to getting to the next level, make sure you tune in tomorrow because we'll be here every single day to help you get there.(23:12) Keep leveling up to reach your full potential. (23:15) Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. (23:19) We love connecting with the Next Level family.

Alan Lazaros

(23:22) We mean it when we say family. (23:24) If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. (23:27) Everything you need to get a hold of us is in the show notes.(23:31) Thank you again and we will talk to you tomorrow.