Being The Big Fish In The Small Pond Doesn’t Work Forever (2532)

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Is your environment helping you grow, or making you too comfortable to notice your ceiling? In this episode, Kevin and Alan break down why being the best in every room can protect your confidence while limiting your potential. Kevin shares why he is considering a more demanding gym, and Alan reflects on how challenging environments shaped his early career.

Together, they explain the “drive to five”: the balance between enough confidence to stay consistent and enough challenge to keep improving. Learn how to choose peer groups, standards, and reference points that strengthen self-belief without making the work unsustainable. Take an honest look at your circle this week. If everyone around you makes growth feel optional, find a room where your standards have to earn their seat.

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Visit our website and socials through the links below. 👇

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Show notes:
(1:52) Why being the best limits growth
(3:42) Using peer groups with intention
(7:47) The drive-to-five standard
(10:31) Finding the challenge-skills sweet spot
(15:19) Choosing a constructive reference group
(16:16) Matching comparison to self-belief
(18:04) Fitness accountability and consistency
(19:08) Outro

🎙️ Hosted by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazaros

Next Level University is a top-ranked daily podcast for dream chasers and self-improvement lovers. With over 2,100 episodes, we help you level up in life, love, health, and wealth one day at a time. Subscribe for real, honest, no-fluff growth every single day.

Transcript

Kevin Palmieri

(0:00) You definitely should not be the best in every room that you're in if you have very high self-belief, but if you're somebody out there and you're struggling with self-belief, honestly, maybe being the big fish in the small pond is a good start for you. (0:15) Not something I would have said in the past.

Alan Lazaros

(0:17) Are you a big fish in a small pond or are you a tiny minnow in a huge ocean? (0:22) Neither one is optimal. (0:24) We gotta find a drive to five.(0:26) Welcome to Next Level University.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:28) I'm your host, Kevin Palmieri. (0:30) And I'm your co-host, Alan Lazaros. (0:33) At NLU, we believe in a heart-driven, but no-BS approach to holistic self-improvement for dream chasers.

Alan Lazaros

(0:40) Our goal with every episode is to help you level up your life, love, health, and wealth.

Kevin Palmieri

(0:46) We bring you a new episode every single day on topics like confidence, self-belief, self-worth, self-awareness, relationships, boundaries, consistency, habits, and defining your own unique version of success.

Alan Lazaros

(1:02) Self-improvement in your pocket, every day, from anywhere, completely free. (1:09) Welcome to Next Level University.

Kevin Palmieri

(1:14) Next Level Nation today for episode number 2,532, being the big fish in the small pond doesn't work forever. (1:22) And that, I stand by, for sure. (1:25) I was having a conversation with Bruce.(1:26) For those who don't know, Bruce is an 80-year-old bodybuilder I work out with almost every single day. (1:32) And I said, Bruce, there's a gym pretty close to me. (1:36) It is a bodybuilder gym.(1:38) The owners are bodybuilders. (1:41) The machines have been hand-chosen by bodybuilders. (1:44) There's a room where you can pose, where I think they have like a tripod set up for you already.(1:49) This is for bodybuilders by bodybuilders. (1:52) And I said, I think I need to go. (1:54) I think I need to go there.(1:56) And Bruce said, you do. (1:57) You do. (1:58) You probably do.(1:59) And I said, I don't mean this. (2:02) I don't mean this with any level of delusion and or grandeur and or arrogance. (2:07) I said, but I can't be the most in shape person here.(2:09) And sometimes when I'm at the gym, I am the one. (2:12) Not always. (2:13) There are some very strong, very in shape people that go to my gym, but most of them aren't there early in the morning.(2:18) And it's usually me. (2:19) Today, Bruce and I were the only two people there, I think at one point, just me and Bruce. (2:23) And I said, I need to, I need the push.(2:25) I need, I need to be behind. (2:29) I need that inspiration. (2:31) I need that motivation.(2:32) I need the kick in the butt. (2:34) But Alan made a really good point. (2:36) I'll let you say it.(2:37) I'll let you speak to the point. (2:39) I have very high self-belief when it comes to fitness. (2:42) When I, when I was out of the gym for like, I was very spotty for a few months.(2:50) When I started going back, I went to a smaller gym when I started to build up my strength. (2:55) And because I was like, I don't want to go be the tiny fish in the ocean that I once felt like I was a shark in. (3:02) I don't think my, I don't think my self-belief, I don't know if my ego, I don't know if I can take it.(3:07) I don't know if my spirit can take that. (3:09) Now I don't feel that way. (3:10) Right.(3:11) If you're just somebody who's starting the gym, you shouldn't go to the gym I'm going to go to. (3:15) I don't think it would be good for you. (3:17) It wouldn't be constructive for you.(3:18) That's not, it wouldn't allow you to be consistent based on what we talked about in the last episode. (3:22) But if you're out there and you're the strongest person and the smartest person and the wealthiest person and the most successful person and the most accomplished person in every room you're in, you're holding yourself back from growth for sure. (3:33) And that's me right now.(3:35) Again, not all those things, but I'm holding myself back in the gym for sure. (3:40) Unfortunately.

Alan Lazaros

(3:42) So I've never actually talked about this. (3:45) I've talked about the principle, but I've never talked about it in this frame. (3:49) So the Pareto distribution is 20% of effort produces 80% of results, but it works for a lot of things.(3:56) The top 20% of people earn 80% of the revenue. (4:00) 20% of the United States drinks 80% of the beer in the United States. (4:05) You wear 20% of your clothing 80% of the time.(4:09) It's a principle when it comes to peer groups and trying to get better and mastery. (4:18) If there's a hundred people in a room, you want to be in the top 20% or at least get into the top 20%, but you don't want to be the top percent. (4:28) And the moment that you get to the top, let's say there's a hundred random people in a gym.(4:33) Once you're the one you need to move to a bigger gym, but when you're number 15, you still can stay there. (4:40) That's the theory underneath this meaning. (4:43) And I say this all the time in career dev career development.(4:47) I don't know why I said that in career development. (4:51) I remember I was at iRobot. (4:53) It's a billion dollar robotics company.(4:54) I'm not sure they're doing as well now, but I was 20 and I was in some meetings that were, they were talking and I got out of the meeting and I said, no 20 year old would ever have the chance to be in a room like that. (5:09) That was wild. (5:10) You want to talk about a minnow in a big ocean?(5:13) And it was good for me because I grew a ton and I learned a ton and you know, all that. (5:19) But in this case, in that case, I was probably in the bottom 20%, which is demoralizing. (5:29) And unless you have a ridiculous amount of self-belief, you might not make it out of that.(5:33) So I always say in career development, you need to try. (5:37) If you don't build your career on a weakness, if you're not in the top 20% out of the gate, it's probably not your thing. (5:44) So for example, what's something, okay, we use strongman competitions all the time, powerlifting.(5:54) Okay. (5:54) In powerlifting, I would not be in the top 20% right out of the gate. (5:57) Definitely not.(5:59) So that I shouldn't build my career on because I'm never going to be able to be big enough, strong enough to be at the top. (6:06) And if you look at the distribution of wealth, if you look at every industry, the top 20% make 80% of the revenue. (6:12) I'm going to use podcasting as an example.(6:14) We are in the top 20% of all the podcasts on earth. (6:18) I haven't looked this up in a while. (6:19) Last time I looked it up, it was 5 million, but that was post COVID.(6:22) I think it's like two and a half million now. (6:23) But anyways, of all the podcasters on earth, 20% of the podcasts make 80% of the revenue. (6:31) We are in that top 20%.(6:32) And I do believe we are in the top 20% of effective communication and engaging and entertaining and conversational and all this stuff. (6:41) I have someone I'm thinking of who was a client in the past who wanted to start a podcast. (6:45) And I said, I'm saying this because I care.(6:48) You should not. (6:50) Communication is not a strength for you. (6:54) Kev at the very beginning was better than you are even 5, 10, 15 years in.(7:02) There's another person, I always use an example that literally is one of the best speakers I've ever heard in my life. (7:07) And I was like, you need to start a podcast. (7:10) You would be so extraordinary.(7:11) You'd be so good. (7:12) You be the top 10% out of the gate with no practice, which means in a decade, you'll be top 1% start a goddamn show. (7:20) If you're listening, she knows who I'm talking about, but seriously do it.(7:25) Oh my God. (7:25) With love. (7:26) It's that's how much I care about your future.(7:27) Okay. (7:28) So anyways, the point that I'm making here is when you are in a room of a hundred people, if you are in the top 20%, good, that's good. (7:36) If you're in the bottom 20%, go to a lesser room.(7:40) You don't want to fight black belts when you just get started. (7:42) However, when you get to number one, you have to move on.

Kevin Palmieri

(7:47) So I want to give it to you because you're the one who said it. (7:50) Essentially the goal is to get to five. (7:52) You drive to five.(7:53) Yeah. (7:54) The goal. (7:54) So explain that because I think that's a really, right now I am, I told Alan behind, you're overconfident because it's mostly you, right?(8:02) Well, I told Alan behind the scenes, I said, I'm like, I'm nervous to go to this other gym. (8:05) Like I'm nervous. (8:07) Very rarely.(8:07) I don't get nervous to go to the gym. (8:09) I go to them. (8:09) I go there every day.(8:11) I'm nervous. (8:11) There's a little piece of me that's like, I don't know about this.

Alan Lazaros

(8:14) So the drive to five is 10 is overconfident at the expense of getting better. (8:19) Zero is, so the zeros don't believe they can get a mentor. (8:23) The tens believe they don't need one.(8:25) Five is humble and confident. (8:27) So you, let's say 10 is overconfident. (8:30) You feel, you feel like a huge fish in a tiny pond and the zero is a tiny minnow in a huge ocean.(8:36) In your current gym, you have no fear whatsoever going there.

Kevin Palmieri

(8:40) I think I'm probably an eight. (8:42) I'm not a 10. (8:42) I think I feel it.

Alan Lazaros

(8:43) And in the new gym, does it swing to two?

Kevin Palmieri

(8:46) No, it's probably like, I'd say three is what it feels like.

Alan Lazaros

(8:51) I would say that's great. (8:53) Would you say you're in the top 20% in your gym?

Kevin Palmieri

(8:56) I am in the top 1% of my gym.

Alan Lazaros

(8:58) Okay. (8:59) Then you need to do this.

Kevin Palmieri

(9:00) Yeah. (9:00) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(9:01) Dude, it's a huge L, the gym I work out at. (9:03) I know. (9:04) And the reason I do it is because it's two minutes away.

Kevin Palmieri

(9:08) But isn't it interesting how you were like, dude, I love your gym. (9:10) I'm jealous of your gym. (9:11) It's like, yeah, but you'd come to my gym and then you'd be there for a couple of months and then you'd be like, ah, this probably isn't it either.

Alan Lazaros

(9:16) You think so?

Kevin Palmieri

(9:17) Maybe.

Alan Lazaros

(9:18) Maybe. (9:19) Yeah, maybe.

Kevin Palmieri

(9:20) You know, I, yeah. (9:21) It depends, right?

Alan Lazaros

(9:22) It depends. (9:23) I told Kev, I have to start watching some fitness content because I need to start seeing, they're called primal triggers, but essentially what it does is it makes your subconscious brain more ambitious. (9:36) We're there's a bodybuilder named Greg Plitt that I thought had the best physique that I thought was a natural athlete.(9:43) And again, you never really know, but I thought it's possible for him to be natural. (9:46) He was 36. (9:47) He passed away, but his videos are extremely motivational.(9:53) And I was going like, that was, that was my sort of true North of what physique I wanted. (9:58) I got very close actually, which was, which was incredible. (10:01) But the point that I'm making is that I don't want to be the best.(10:06) I want to be better and I want to eventually be the best me, but I don't want to be the best in every room. (10:13) I okay.

Kevin Palmieri

(10:15) Why? (10:16) But why? (10:16) That's the thing.

Alan Lazaros

(10:17) Okay.

Kevin Palmieri

(10:18) There's a subset of people out there right now that are thinking, I would love to be the best in every room I walk in.

Alan Lazaros

(10:25) Yeah. (10:26) Well then you're okay. (10:27) Why?(10:27) Let's actually break it down. (10:31) It's a paradox. (10:34) If I'm the best in my tiny gym, that means I can't be the best long-term because I'm a big fish in a small pond, but there's an ocean out there, but it doesn't drive you.

Kevin Palmieri

(10:46) That's, I think, yeah, it doesn't drive you as much.

Alan Lazaros

(10:48) And, and if you're a huge fish in a small pond, you have less drive. (10:52) If you're a tiny minnow in a huge ocean, you're too, you're shaking. (10:56) You can't even lift.(10:56) You're too scared. (10:57) So you have to be at five where you're both humble and confident. (11:00) It's the challenge skills sweet spot.(11:03) Emilio and I are purposely trying to get into flow. (11:06) We optimize for flow. (11:08) And if you've never researched flow, look it up.(11:10) It's unbelievable. (11:11) It's the productivity increases by 500% focus increases by 600%. (11:15) It's, I was in flow today.(11:17) We had 40 minutes in the gym and both timers went off and I saw her and I, we were like, oh shit, we gotta go. (11:23) I gotta, I gotta call in 17 minutes. (11:25) Let's go.(11:26) And neither one of us wanted to leave. (11:28) That's what you want. (11:30) You want to be in flow.(11:31) Sometimes I'm in there and I don't hit flow. (11:34) And I'm just sitting there like, God, the timer it's going slower. (11:40) I'm not in the zone.(11:41) I'm not feeling that's very rare. (11:42) I do pretty good. (11:43) And I'm not, I'm not never just hanging out, but I want to make it clear today was like 10 out of 10 intensity.(11:49) Now why the gym doesn't challenge me in terms of the peers there. (11:56) There's a lot of old people. (11:57) There's not a lot of athletes.(11:58) There's one guy who, who I think plays football at WPI who goes there. (12:02) He's legit as hell. (12:03) Super legit.(12:04) So that's motivating. (12:05) But for the most part, I mean, everyone in there is very lackadaisical. (12:08) Like there are no freak athletes in there.(12:10) I want to be, I want to compete and I want to be around competitors. (12:13) And I want to, so I have to compete with me because my standards are higher in that gym than anyone else. (12:19) And it's two minutes away and blah, blah, blah, blah.(12:21) And eventually we'll have a home gym anyway. (12:23) So it's going to, I'm going to have to get used to not having this around, but that doesn't mean you can't watch fitness videos. (12:29) That doesn't mean I can't watch Greg Plitt.(12:31) That doesn't mean I can't watch CrossFitters for a long time. (12:35) I would watch CrossFitters every morning and it got me so jacked up because these people are crazy athletic, like freaky athletic. (12:43) It's, it's called, uh, if you win CrossFit, you're the most athletic on earth or whatever.(12:48) Fittest on earth. (12:49) Exactly. (12:50) And some of these people are like, yeah, they're wild.(12:53) Absolutely insane. (12:54) And to me, I want that. (12:56) However, if I was brand new to the gym and I wasn't exercising for the last 11 years, I would not necessarily feel good watching that.

Kevin Palmieri

(13:04) I want to add something too, because my gym, when I first started going to my gym, it was, it was like, I was the small fish in the big pond for sure.

Alan Lazaros

(13:14) How long ago?

Kevin Palmieri

(13:19) I don't know. (13:19) It's hard to say. (13:20) A crunch, a crunch gym, brand new crunch gym opened up five minutes down the road.(13:24) So we had a lot of people left. (13:27) So this isn't necessarily like I'm the great, I'm not saying that I'm saying by circumstance, there were some freaks that worked out there six months ago. (13:36) Some freaks.(13:38) I mean, there's there, there is this kid he's in his early twenties. (13:42) He's big. (13:43) He's like, he's a big dude, but he is curling 80 pound dumbbells.(13:49) Like this kid could eat me. (13:51) This kid could eat me. (13:52) Now, maybe he doesn't have, maybe he's not in the top quote unquote 1% for the things I value.(13:58) I value strength and looking at leanness. (14:03) I like being lean, but I want to be strong.

Alan Lazaros

(14:05) Yeah. (14:05) He's not aesthetics.

Kevin Palmieri

(14:06) No, no, he's no, no, he's not lean. (14:08) He he's, he'd be a really good, strong man. (14:11) He is strong as shit.(14:12) And like, he just loads the weights, all the weights on it. (14:16) And just, that's what he does. (14:18) It's like, okay, good for you.(14:19) But I'm sure he probably went to the other gym. (14:22) A lot of people went to the other gym. (14:23) So sometimes it's not even a conversation about competency.(14:28) It's circumstance. (14:29) I didn't get that much better over the last six months. (14:32) Some people left and that opened up spots like some, some days it's Bruce and me at six 30 in the morning.(14:39) There's nobody else there.

Alan Lazaros

(14:40) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(14:41) Now can I guarantee when I go to this other gym that there's going to be people there? (14:46) I don't know. (14:47) Maybe, maybe there won't be at that time.(14:48) I'm sure there probably will be because, but it's not just that too. (14:51) It's the environment.

Alan Lazaros

(14:51) It's the gym.

Kevin Palmieri

(14:52) It's the, it's the intention. (14:53) It's the environment.

Alan Lazaros

(14:54) Yeah. (14:54) There's a gym on the highway that email. (14:58) And I go to, we try to go there once a week.(15:00) It's, it's got a huge turf. (15:01) It's got rings. (15:03) It's just more equipped.(15:05) It's more equipped. (15:06) And so I don't know. (15:10) What's our takeaway?(15:12) I'll be the biggest fish, but don't be a tiny minnow. (15:14) Yeah. (15:14) That's mine.

Kevin Palmieri

(15:15) It has to be constructive based on the amount of self-belief you have.

Alan Lazaros

(15:19) Yeah.

Kevin Palmieri

(15:19) Going back to the episode on consistency. (15:22) If you're trying to start beyond where you currently feel like you belong, it's not sustainable. (15:28) Probably that's not being humble.(15:30) That's being naive or that's self-sabotaging. (15:33) So the whole point of your reference group is to help you stay in the game and get better. (15:40) But if you don't stay in the game, you can't get better.(15:42) And if you stay in the game without getting better, there's no point being in the game in the first place.

Alan Lazaros

(15:47) Yeah. (15:47) That one last nuance.

Kevin Palmieri

(15:50) Yeah.

Alan Lazaros

(15:53) Your, we all talk about the drive to five and we all have a home. (15:57) I tend to be on the higher end. (15:59) Kev tends to be on the lower end.(16:01) So I think I should be more willing to be a small fish in a big ocean. (16:08) Yes. (16:09) And you should be more willing to be the bigger fish in the pond because if, and I think that's important.(16:16) So anyone out there watching or listening, do you need the ego boost? (16:20) That's the wrong way to frame it. (16:22) Do you need that extra, I'm a big fish in a small pond and I need to lead or do you need the extra kick in the ass of like being around people that make you look silly?(16:33) For me, I like that. (16:36) I want, I don't need to feel strong to be motivated. (16:40) For me, I need to be, I want to feel terrible about myself so that I can motivate myself.(16:45) Like that works for me. (16:46) I dude, like, so I'll give this example. (16:50) When I run a six 50 mile and I have some other people running miles and I see mine compared to them, I'm, I'm running in half their times, but I don't give a fuck.(17:00) I'm thinking about the dude that I did that five K who averaged a four 54 for three miles straight. (17:06) Like that's what I want to compare to. (17:08) I'm not interested in mediocrity, ordinary average.(17:12) I hate those words. (17:13) I'm not interested. (17:14) So, but that's me.(17:16) Some people just to do a 10 minute mile would be great. (17:18) That's fine. (17:19) I don't care.(17:20) I don't want you to compare to me if it's destructive. (17:22) I want you to find whatever's constructive for you. (17:25) It's not constructive for me to be pumped about a 10 minute mile.(17:27) I could give a fuck. (17:28) Like I need to be pumped about a six 30, right? (17:32) And I need to compare up, compare up, but some people need to compare down a hundred percent.

Kevin Palmieri

(17:38) Yeah. (17:38) If you're, if you're playing basketball against first graders, Duncan on them, like, I don't know foundation, baby. (17:47) Yeah.(17:47) But also like, if you're getting dunked on by somebody who's six foot nine, like that, probably that probably doesn't feel good either. (17:53) You got to find the right spot for you. (17:54) Like it is with everything else.(17:56) All right, cool. (17:56) If right now, maybe you feel like you're ready to get into a new pond where all the fish are fucking awesome. (18:04) Next level fitness accountability group.(18:05) Look, I don't, I'm not saying you need to be in as good a shape as other people. (18:10) I'm not saying that you should feel any type of way. (18:13) I think you being in that group will help bring you to five because we will lift you up when you don't believe in yourself and you'll be humbled by the actions you are trying to take every single day.(18:22) So reach out to Alan and or myself. (18:24) It's a free WhatsApp group. (18:25) No strings attached.(18:26) Just come be more consistent when it comes to your fitness.

Alan Lazaros

(18:29) If you want to be more successful in health, wealth, and love, I coach 41 individuals. (18:34) I have six people that are in the process of onboarding. (18:38) I'm trying to get to 50.(18:39) I do believe I can coach 50 individuals, including Kevin consistently without the quality of the coaching, taking any hits whatsoever. (18:47) It's my favorite work in the world. (18:48) I promise you, you will be more consistent, more accountable, and more dialed in towards your goals than you ever have before.(18:55) I ask my clients that all the time. (18:57) I say true, false, semi-true. (18:59) I blank am more consistent and dialed in toward my goals than ever before.(19:03) And if they can't say true, we work on it. (19:06) They almost always say true, which is good. (19:08) True for me.

Kevin Palmieri

(19:09) As always, we love you. (19:10) Appreciate you. (19:10) Grateful for each and every one of you.(19:11) If you are as committed as you say you are to getting to the next level, make sure you tune in tomorrow because we'll be here every single day to help you get there.

Alan Lazaros

(19:17) Keep leveling up to reach your full potential.

Kevin Palmieri

(19:20) Thanks for joining us for another episode of Next Level University. (19:24) We love connecting with the Next Level family.

Alan Lazaros

(19:27) We mean it when we say family. (19:29) If you ever need anything, please reach out to us directly. (19:32) Everything you need to get ahold of us is in the show notes.(19:35) Thank you again, and we will talk to you tomorrow.