From Tech to Life Optimization: An Engineer's Journey to Consciousness and the Digital Nomad Lifestyle

Have you ever wondered about the intersection of technology and personal fulfillment, or pondered on the transformative powers of coaching and storytelling?

That's the topic I'll be talking about today, but it won't be just me talking about it. In this episode, we're doing a little pod swap with the Mickey SDT Podcast with Co-hosts Mickey and Nicole.

Experience the enlightening journey as we chat about my story of going beyond just being an electrical engineer to also being a life optimization mentor, podcaster, and author. We explore my perspective on higher education, credentials, and living life to its fullest potential, questioning the traditional constructs of societal norms.

In a world where digital nomadism is on the rise, we follow my path from the tech world to becoming a mentor and coach. We navigate through my experiences of living in various countries, discussing the challenges, rewards, and growth opportunities. My stories of being a digital nomad and embracing the expat lifestyle shed light on the fascinating comparison between personal growth and a travel journey, illuminating the path for those seeking a similar journey.

Lastly, we delve into the world of consciousness and the intriguing possibility of a simulated reality. We talk about the complexities of human consciousness, the importance of genuine experiences, and how corporate profit-driven motives impact society.

Join us for an eye-opening conversation with my, Mickey, and Nicole, as we look into a different perspective on life and its endless possibilities.

You can find  Mickey on Instagram @MickeySdt
You can find Nicole on Instagram @nicolerosetravelstheworld

Look for the @MickeySdt Podcast on Spotify and other podcast directories

Watch the full video episode at Justin Wenck, Ph.D. YouTube Channel!

Check out my best-selling book "Engineered to Love: Going Beyond Success to Fulfillment" also available on Audiobook on all streaming platforms! Go to https://www.engineeredtolove.com/ to learn more!

Got a question or comment about the show? E-mail me at podcast@justinwenck.com.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:04

Thanks, listeners. Today we have an interesting guest and Nicole. Thank you, nicole, joining me, willing to introduce this interesting guest. Go ahead, nicole.

Speaker 2: 0:15

Yeah, absolutely so. I met my friend Abishik in South Korea and at the time my friend Abishik or Abbi, that's a short name he was doing like podcasts as well, like helping people with like figure out like their spiritual journey, and he was also like a yoga teacher and still does like yoga teaching on the side. So he introduced me to Justin and Justin's going to tell us more about like his journey, what he does for a living, and be able to share like more of his entrepreneurial journey too.

Speaker 3: 0:45

Yeah, it's great to be here, mickey and Nicole. Yeah, I always love being on other podcasts and it's been fun, kind of like catching up and listening to you guys and how you how Mickey got this started and how, nicole, you sort of jumped in and I feel like you know, this show's been going along, you guys have been catching your groove and it, I know there's something about. You know, two co-hosts kind of have like a good rapport and good banter, that kind of. Yeah, it's fun and it's sort of reminding me, oh, yeah, I love, you know, interviewing and being interviewed and sometimes those are my funnest, most best podcasts that I've ever done and so it's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 3: 1:27

So, yeah, a little bit about myself, as it's always interesting when someone's like you know what do you do? And sometimes I'm just like, well, how much time do we have? Because it's like my background, it's like currently I do, I do coaching, although I'd kind of like to describe what I do. More is like I like to teach people how to live a more fulfilling life where they can actually be following their passions and do what they like and are in relation with people that light them up and things like that, like the term coach. Sometimes I go back and forth because it's one of those. For the most part, anyone can call themselves a coach and sometimes people are like I tell people what I do and they're like, oh, you like a life coach. And I'm like, yeah, I guess. And going forward I'm going to say like no, I'm not a life coach. Because I feel like it's a little bit like, if you know, if we were all dolphins and you know, we've been swimming around for decades, and someone's like you know, hey, do you need a swim coach? It's like no, I've been swimming for decades. It's like as humans, we live life. We're living it whether we want it or not. It's more of like how do we want to live it? So I'm playing around with like a life optimization mentor or something like that, because it's like I've lived a lot of life and found ways to I don't know.

Speaker 3: 2:34

I think it's all about getting the most of it while we're here, because we kind of have the opportunity to do the same thing in and day in, day out, and I'm sure probably each of you probably have like people you grew up with where they're still in the same town doing the same thing with the same people. And I know both of you have like been around the world and had all these amazing experiences and I think it's all great, it's all. Just how do we want to do it? And I think it's you know, often when we start having like pains in life, whether it's like actual physical pains and some of us start to get get older and we don't listen or it's just that, that pain of the heart going, like there's something more I want to do and we either don't listen or we listen but we're like, oh, I don't know how to even get started. That's sort of.

Speaker 3: 3:14

You know who I like to work with, somebody who's like ready to like, okay, I'm ready to do something different. I just don't even know where to start because I've I've been in a bubble of doing what I'm supposed to do, which I've have experienced doing, because, like, my background really is not in, you know, coaching or mentoring. It's like my background is in electrical engineering. I have a doctorate in that. So did a lot, tons of schooling, and I'm always happy to talk to people out of like lots of schooling.

Speaker 3: 3:43

I know, nicole, I know you have a master's and I think I've heard you in one of your podcast. There's like you'd help people figure out, maybe, how to do their master's or PhD abroad, but sometimes it's like not the best thing for some people. Sometimes it's just like another, another credential, so that we can pretend like we're doing what we're what we want, when really it's like, you know, we want to be traveling the world or we want to be, you know, feeding people or something that doesn't even require a doctor, it doesn't require require a credential, and so, yeah, I've still, you know, also worked in the tech space for like 14 years of various companies. So, which is, I don't know, it's an interesting world because it's like to each of you, what's the whole point of technology and engineering? Like what would you say? Like, what is the? What's the, what's supposed to be the point of those professions or those industries?

Speaker 1: 4:33

So if I jump in, so I have also a tech background I mean, I'm not an engineer in hardware, but more in software and consulting with cybersecurity and but I made also recently a change to do something different.

Speaker 1: 4:50

So that's why I can really align what I heard from you in the four minutes from your book. But before I go further in this, I like what you said that you don't want to be a coach, because I met so many other people who said they are coach and they're. They change what they're coach and manifesting coach or whatever coach and and I analyzed also a little bit this kind of industry, the worlds for some reason and I met some people. So that's why we're looking for the opportunity to have this conversation with you to share also my experience I had when I contacted this kind of people and I don't want to say something bad, but it's just only there they've, they had a PhD in psychology or they did some coach coaching certificate from some institute in the US. So so that's why I like your approach to be honest and and that's also maybe if you stick more how you came to this, that makes you maybe more active, attractive for the people to actually have you as a mentor if you tell this this way.

Speaker 1: 6:13

Yeah my, my stay going.

Speaker 3: 6:15

Yeah, so yeah, but I'll kind of touch a little bit on the a little caution with with coaches. There are tons of amazing coaches out there. I've worked with with plenty of them. I feel like it's great to work with a coach. It's I think it's a little bit of like buyer, buyer, beware it's, you know. It's similar to almost like medical doctors, because do you know what they call the person who graduates last of their class in medical school? Do you know what they call them?

Speaker 1: 6:44

No doctor. See, yes, there's also a doctor.

Speaker 3: 6:51

Yeah, so there's, you know, but there's also a lot of great doctors.

Speaker 3: 6:55

It's you know, so it's you know. Go check, you know, can they do? Because a lot of times, like I have, almost in the last few years, avoided any new certifications or credentials Because when I, what I found is most people don't care. It's just like, well, can you help me? It's like if you're in pain, if somebody can help you, do you care if they, you know, went to the greatest school or not. It's like they helped you. That's all the matters.

Speaker 3: 7:21

But how I got into coaching it's and I don't know if I've told this anywhere recently. It's definitely not my. My book is my first. The way I first got into it was really through the like, the pickup, learning how to date better world. Like I was, I was newly like newly working, newly out of finishing my PhD, and I think I had like worked for a year and I'd just gotten a promotion and I was like all right, I did the thing, I'm successful, I'm getting more money, I got a promotion and I had no one to share it with.

Speaker 3: 7:59

And then it's like I go on, I go online and I see an ad on Facebook and it's about like well, you know, basically, in humans there's almost no way to distinguish. Like who's attractive, who's not. Anymore. It's almost like goldfish. Like goldfish, the only way the lady goldfish or a male goldfish is attractive is that there's other lady goldfish around. And so it's like oh you know, read my book and I'll teach you how to. So I got a book. So I got. This book is called like the Tao, the Tao of badass, by this guy, joshua Pelesir, and he's since gone on to like other things that aren't dating whatever. And so I read this book and it was just like oh, all these things about bringing awareness to how you come out in the world of like you know, it's like how body language impacts how people perceive you and how your language patterns impact how people are able to take your message in, and things like that, which at that time which is now, what is that? Like 10, 12 years ago for me was like a completely new concept. But I got on you know this guy's email list and I don't know, maybe some of you guys are on you know different people's mailing lists, but one of the things they'll do is they don't just tell you about their things, but sometimes like, hey, I know this guy, that he's great, you know it's a. It's a when you start getting into the industry of these types of things, it's like, oh, that's affiliate marketing.

Speaker 3: 9:16

Like you know, I went and signed up for this guy's call this coach named Michael Burnoff, and I was like, oh my gosh, this guy is not just dating, he's like everything. And so I worked with that guy for a few years and I was just going to like, oh wait, you can like help people not just with creating a gadget and then you hope, maybe someday they'll use it for something that benefits their lives. You can actually actually kind of like more directly impact somebody's life. And so that was like where the seed for me of like getting into coaching came was sort of like getting being coached myself, and I feel like often we're attracted to things that at some point we eventually want to like. You know, either we just want to do that same thing in the world or we're like, okay, I need to do my own spin on it.

Speaker 3: 10:04

And for me I feel like I'm sort of doing my own spin. I'm still sort of figuring out what's the because I don't know. You know both of you, I know you're. You have lots of things going on, so it's sort of like, hey, I don't want to. I don't want to spend decades to figure out how to be happier, like what's the most efficient, easiest way to be happy, and then we realize that, like you can be happy right now. That's just sort of what I've realized.

Speaker 3: 10:28

But it's how do you practice doing that moment to moment and how do you teach that in a way that people are going to get it? And I continue to try to find ways to refine that and teach it better to more people. But just sort of, like you know, it took me realizing that I could, I had to learn that myself. And then, okay, now how do I bring that to more people in a way that's going to reach people that aren't going to be looking to date or they're not like, oh, I want to work with a coach, but they there's.

Speaker 3: 10:54

I feel like a lot of it's. In a lot of ways, information is free now, like YouTube podcasts, you can learn anything, but it's really who are we going to learn it from? That's really the magic, you know. It's like the magic of this podcast isn't any information, it's that it's, you know, nicole, and it's Mickey bringing the message and the special secret sauce that you guys bring, that's them, that's the magic, and I think, in teaching everyone else that they have their own magic and give that out to the world, that that's what makes this whole weird blue ball of an experiment I think worth sticking around for, day after day, because it's not always easy, right? Yeah?

Speaker 2: 11:28

that's true. So I have a question. So you had to take a coaching course in order to become a coach, correct? And then how long did it take you to become like an actual like coach within that program?

Speaker 3: 11:43

So so what I so what I did initially was I did sort of some, some online programs that were more just about like, just more about like getting going on doing things in life that you know are going to like bring joy or bring what. It's always funny and I find a lot of in coaching is that a lot of times the marketing is to get you. They use what they want so that they could at least to me, an ethical coach is going to use a little bit of what you want so they can also give you what you need. So like, for example, you know what got me to, you know, get that one book on improving dating techniques and things like that was it's like, oh, I want to, I want to be. You know, I'm lonely, I want to like find a woman to date or be partnered with or whatever that is. But what I was taught was, you know, self awareness of my body language patterns. That's what I needed, right, we all need improved things like that. And so that was sort of the first course, and it wasn't until I did like a few, after like a couple years, of some some online, some phone, and then I did like this one in person one, and then it was actually sort of like a follow up program where he's like, okay, I've basically been you doing all these techniques on you to get you to learn these things about yourself and talk to yourself in a better way. Now I will teach you the techniques and this coached use neuro linguistic programming, which I don't know if you know, maybe you guys have heard of it, but maybe some of your listeners haven't, but it's basically the. My understanding is the premise is basically like the language patterns we use in our head will sort of dictate how we often have emotions or how we, when we have emotions, how we feel about them, and then how we're going to see ourselves and what we're going to believe. And then that's going to actually dictate how things show up in our life.

Speaker 3: 13:38

Because often and this is one of the things that I like to teach people is it often, especially this time of year, because it's end of November, getting into new years, which is resolution time, right, just like I'm going to do something different, like, okay, I'm finally, I'm finally going to quit that habit, or I'm finally going to start going to the gym, or I'm finally going to save money, and it's something like 98% of no, sorry, 92% of people that attempt a new year's resolution fail right. And it's why do they fail? It's because all they try to do is just change at the surface level, which is like, oh, I don't go to the gym, I'll get a gym membership, I spend too much money, I'm going to stop. But the thing is they haven't changed like who they are. Like. Like the example I always love is Arnold Schwarzenegger and Mickey. Like when I was first listening to you, like, yeah, where did? Where are you originally from, mickey?

Speaker 1: 14:37

I was born in Germany and a lot of people compare me, or I remember, to Arnold Schwarzenegger, and he started also something. You I don't know if you know that he start now a weekly no, a daily email blast about things about health and mental stuff.

Speaker 3: 14:59

Yeah, I haven't seen it, but I've seen some of his videos and things. When he was, he was governor of my state for a while. I got to vote for you, I know that yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:09

But yeah, I mean he's a kind of my not say idol, but someone said I love. When he said don't listen to the naysayers, you can do it.

Speaker 3: 15:22

Yeah, which is true it's, and so it's. You got to listen to yourself and then become the self that's going to get you whatever you want. And he was really a master of that, like you know he's. He was born in Austria, right. And then he's like I'm going to be, you know, the Mr Olympia or whatever, the world's biggest bodybuilder. And so then for him, because he's like, well, what does that person do? They like eat the right foods, they're in the gym all the time, and then they glow like a champion. And then he did that, I think, four times over. And then he's like you know what? Now I want to be the world's biggest movie star. And he became, you know, he brought up, have that persona and he became good at changing who he was and the beliefs that were necessary to do that, and so that ends up being the end.

Speaker 3: 16:08

So neuro linguistic programming is like sort of one of the ways. You know, there's all these modalities and kind of like. I kind of think like some of these coaching modalities are almost like world religions or spirituality. It's like there's there's ultimately a single way the world works, how people work, and they start to be very similar. So there's there's like a saying there's many paths to the top of the mountain. So it's sort of like, just find this, find the trailhead that like is seems like the least daunting to you, and they're all going to end up kind of ending up at the same place.

Speaker 3: 16:40

But so I, yeah. So going back to like, so I took this, you know, the advanced level, where he starts teaching you the neuro linguistic programming techniques, and so I'm, I am certified in that, and he, yeah, so I'm, so I'm certified in that. But other than that, and a couple coaching classes I did through one of my employers, like I'm also like a certified yoga teacher and 500 hours of yoga teacher training, and so, out of my way, there's, there's, there's a ridiculous number of coaching certifications that people can get, and I've kind of gone out of my way to avoid that because I've basically wanted to focus more on like, well, how do I help people?

Speaker 2: 17:28

Yeah, I have a question for you in terms of like your branding and like really representing, like you know who you are as a coach and so forth, Did you create like a website? Did you create like a LinkedIn? Like how did you really like let people know about, like what you do for LinkedIn and that kind of thing?

Speaker 3: 17:48

So so, my, I have a, I have a website, justinwinkcom, and it's, and also I'm on all the social medias, except for Twitter or X I think I have a handle there, but I don't, I don't use it. It got weird, that platform got weird, and so I'm just like I don't even want to dip my toe in. But so I'm justinwink PhD and wink is WENCK on all of those, because my thing is like I want to make it as easy as possible for people to find me For sure, and then I also have a podcast, so that's the engineering, emotions and energy podcast. But again, like my name, it's a very unique name. There's maybe in Germany there's more more people that have my last name. It was great. I did live in Germany for six months and they were like, because usually in the US people like are you WENCK, wenck, wenck, wenck, wuk, wuk? But they're, they're like, ah, air Bank, so good to see you. And I'm like, oh, you guys just not saying my name, at least within German.

Speaker 1: 18:53

But yeah, I do a lot of social. Hey, I'm back, sorry, yeah, so I don't know if you I wanted to say about something or not, arnold Schwarze. Then I got kicked out for some reason.

Speaker 3: 19:05

Internet problems again and I'm going to talk about his latest scandal and he's got eyes everywhere and I just got shut down. So don't you know you were telling nice things, and that was okay. But, I think you were going to switch it and it's like no, I just want to say what.

Speaker 1: 19:21

what he inspired me was don't listen to the naysayers. That's only what I wanted to say. Yeah, don't listen to the naysayers and just believe in yourself. And if you see his story, he came from this little town in Austria and and he made it to a governor of California. What kind of a story is that? Right?

Speaker 3: 19:45

It's, it's well. I think we like to say that's the American dream. Right, they're just. You can come from anywhere of anything and become anyone. Yeah, so it's really yeah, let's see.

Speaker 1: 20:02

Yes, I mean, and yes, I was born in Germany. I don't know if that came through before I got disconnected.

Speaker 3: 20:10

Oh yeah, I got that which which town, because I was telling Nicole that I did briefly work in Germany for six months.

Speaker 1: 20:16

I was born in Mainz and I lived, I lived around Mainz, frankfurt, wiesbaden, and I lived also around the sort of this book.

Speaker 3: 20:27

That's. That's like the south, southwestern part. I remember my.

Speaker 1: 20:33

Frankfurt is kind of in the middle, but in the western yeah and then all on the river Rhine and this would always come right. That's all on the Rhine Valley.

Speaker 3: 20:44

Oh yeah, where there's a castle like every every mile or kilometer along the river. It's just like ridiculous. Yeah, we're in California. We have a castle that was built by William Randolph Hearst, a big guy. Back in like the early 1900s he did this. He was actually like the first person to start fake news, actually like he kind of would be beneficial for his, his empire and things like that. But he had a big castle built in on the Central Coast which is I don't know, nicole, did you ever hear about it?

Speaker 2: 21:18

I think is I've only been to like San Francisco and Los Angeles, but I only went for like a short period of time. I went with my family one time and I want to see my friends. Where exactly are you based in California?

Speaker 3: 21:31

So right now I live. I live in an area called Pacifica, so it's just like southwest of San Francisco, like right right on the ocean.

Speaker 2: 21:38

Oh, okay, yeah, and you know a beach from California, correct? You guys were working as yoga teachers.

Speaker 3: 21:48

No, because yeah, I don't think he's taught yoga for a while and I haven't taught. I was at a retreat and I did one yoga class. It was like the first time teaching in like over a year or two. It's one of the things I did. I did yoga teacher training and then, sort of after I did my second one, I was like, yeah, I don't want to do, this is like a career. It's like maybe if I ran an in-person retreat I would do like a little special offering, but I don't want to. I like to be able to sort of work a little bit from anywhere. I really enjoy that, yeah.

Speaker 2: 22:21

I think, like one, people have that, like flexibility to be able to work remotely from anywhere you please. If you want to go to Germany, you can, if you want to go to Asia, you can. So it doesn't matter, you know nothing's going to like really hold you back.

Speaker 3: 22:32

Exactly, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 22:35

So about California? So I was there recently, but not more in Long Beach, california, what is south of LA?

Speaker 3: 22:45

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 22:45

At least, and I was because I got hired for to be on a conference in the travel industry, and before I spent the time for walking, I had a project north of San Francisco for a small credit union for a couple days, and so that was my tech life, where I traveled around the world, so all over the US, singapore, manila, africa all over. Europe and I lived also grow up in Germany, went to the US, lived in Michigan, went to Canada, lived in Malta for a couple months and now I'm in Spain.

Speaker 3: 23:30

That's my story. So I'm curious out of all of those places, which, which area was like the biggest growth opportunity, which could have been like the biggest challenge, but like you look back and go like that, that had the biggest shift in who I am as a person. You know was it was it. Yeah, is what location where you just like that really was a big, a big shift?

Speaker 1: 23:55

Okay, I have to tell you it's mattress.

Speaker 3: 23:59

Really.

Speaker 1: 24:01

Yeah, that's amazing. I mean, it started with Barcelona, because I lived in Barcelona before, but Madrid changed me in a way. I don't know why, what happened, but I don't know. And one day I have to tell the story. But it's not done, this story. So that's why I'm waiting.

Speaker 3: 24:24

It's still. You're still writing the chapters of trains Mickey.

Speaker 1: 24:29

And I remember I know a lot of people told me to write a book but I said I do podcasts.

Speaker 3: 24:37

That's. That's that's how I was for the longest time. And then at some point it was like, oh, it's time, it's time to write a book, time to get the message out in other ways.

Speaker 1: 24:47

You have to convince me for this, because I mean, that was one of my. She was not a coach, he was really a therapist. She told me that also I should write a book.

Speaker 3: 25:03

Because Nicole was asking me a little bit earlier about, you know, websites and social media and it's kind of going over how I kind of have all of them, because I think there starts to be when we do have like a message or something that we really want to share with the world. There's a little bit of if we want to share it with the most people or the right people. It's there's a little bit like we go to meet them where they're at right, right, I also have like a really like you know spiritual side to myself and you know we just started with yoga but it's since gotten into you know, other forms of like, you know spirituality and things like that. But I remember earlier on, it's like running into going to yoga class and somebody's all like and now let your chakra like begin to glow and let forth you know the blue healing energy of Gaia, and I'm just like what the? What the hell are they talking? Like this is just um, and I now I'm like what the hell are they talking about? Like now, I know exactly what they're talking about, but I'm like you're just you're just talking to the other woo, woo, people Like you're not helping anybody that needs to Um, so that's why I like I always like to teach these concepts sort of like as plain a language as as possible and things like that, and try to find explanations that somebody who's like even thinks that stuff is crazy bananas, whatever but just like okay, well, can explain it to you in a way that, like, can actually improve your life, cause that's what all this stuff is designed for is like well, can it make your life better and can you be better with people?

Speaker 3: 26:31

And um, yeah, so the so sometimes like it's like okay, so for me it was like time to write a book. That's I think that's where that story was, was going. It's like, well, some payout. There's people that only like to read books.

Speaker 2: 26:43

They're not going to listen to podcasts or whatever it is, and it's like you know it's something that you say, that because I live in Chiang Mai, thailand, and that's also like the biggest growth opportunity besides Madrid. But I think it's because I saw so many digital nomads people working from wherever or like nothing really bounded them, you know, and I was just so used to like the same. You know, nine to five, okay, leave your home, go to the office, come back. So I never knew as possible like, will they work remotely, until I was in Chiang Mai and I went to like a lot of like digital nomad conferences. I met people like like digital, like a lot of like cafes and a lot of co-working spots and I realized this is the actual like, this is actually possible. So I think it's also interesting too as well. I met a lot of people like very spiritual, very much into like their home.

Speaker 3: 27:28

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 27:29

Yoga and then taking whatever drugs they were taking, but it was definitely a big growth opportunity. And the same thing with Mike. I was saying to Miki too as well. I think Madrid is an incredible place. You get to meet people from like all walks of life. There's like different areas for people from like India, pakistan, honduras, and it's just a huge Kazapalitan city. I would definitely compare it to like New York, but way cheaper, obviously, and it's just a great hub, like if you want to travel to like Rome or Germany, like it's really easy and it's just a beautiful place with architecture. I just can't get over the architecture from Chicago, but architecture.

Speaker 2: 28:07

Oh nothing yeah.

Speaker 3: 28:09

Nothing beats European architecture. Thank you, you might be the only person.

Speaker 2: 28:12

Well, maybe Miki too as well, but none of my friends agree. They're like oh, chicago is so beautiful, like it's beautiful in its own way, but I don't see the beauty anymore. Like I was working downtown over the weekend I work as a brand ambassador and so I was like this is it? This is nothing to me, you know. So, yeah, madrid is incredible, and so Budapest, and mines mines was incredible. I was in mines last year, mine.

Speaker 1: 28:36

The city of what I was born.

Speaker 2: 28:38

Yes, yes, I was there, yes.

Speaker 1: 28:42

When I went to.

Speaker 2: 28:43

I went to like the Christmas market in Nuremberg yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:47

Yeah, so I mean why I choose Madrid, to let me mention, that was more what happened to me, but of course what Nicole mentioned is also true. But I think it's because Madrid has a certain elevation, it's the highest capital in Europe and it's something special about it. I have heard it from so many other people, not only Nicole. I mean, I can tell you five, six, seven more people would tell me Madrid, that's the place for us.

Speaker 3: 29:23

Yeah, I think there's definitely something about when you find like there's something about the geography or the power of just the nature of a place, and then when that's like compatible with where you're at that it just great things happen really quickly.

Speaker 3: 29:38

Like I think there ends up not being any mistakes sometimes, of like why certain cities have certain things, and then there's usually like some really stunning geographical stuff, like whether the water or mountains or volcanoes, Like you know, like just for the San Francisco Bay area, it's like you know it's the tech mecca of the world, but also it's also very, you know, naturally powerful, like some of the most stunning like hikes and features and, you know, a giant bay, just a lot of powerful nature happening too and it's, I find it very interesting how those some more and more often go together and you start getting like the woo-woo energetics of you know the world and people and it's sort of like okay, it starts to make sense, but definitely Interesting that you say that, because I was in Lisbon just like for a week in August and I was with my friend and I felt like Lisbon remind me a lot, like San Francisco too as well, in terms like they had the bridge that we had, like the water.

Speaker 2: 30:37

It was very like coastal, I would say, and cheaper, obviously, but beautiful place. Overall, I like San Francisco, it's great.

Speaker 3: 30:44

Yeah, and you haven't been to Lisbon yet. I'm probably do. I haven't been to Europe for like 10 years. I'm probably due for a Europe trip at some point here to go and check it out.

Speaker 3: 30:55

I didn't want to say something to Nicole. Your experience of seeing you know the other digital nomads, and like I think that's one of the great things about travel, is like we get to see other things that are possible. Like, I think like one of my earliest international trips was like going to Japan and that was, I think, the first place I went, where they have the stop lights, where all the cars have to stop and then they just have the. We're just all the pedestrians can have a free for all, go. And you know, go, go, kitty corner or cross, and it's like, oh my gosh, that's possible, you know, which is a little thing, but like seeing somebody, it's like, wait, you can actually work remotely anywhere in the world.

Speaker 3: 31:33

And that was like one of the gifts of the pandemic for me was like, oh, I don't have to just be going into the office doing nine to five, I can do other stuff I can actually be doing.

Speaker 3: 31:43

You know, have a tech job and I could be doing my coaching, mentoring business as well, and I can take it on the road and I feel like we definitely we get the life that we tolerate.

Speaker 3: 31:55

Like you know, sometimes we like to think like, oh, I'm getting the life I want, and it's like there's a little bit like we stretch out this again kind of goes to the identity but it's like we really get the life that we tolerate.

Speaker 3: 32:04

So it's like, if we tolerate that, like oh, I'm going to be stuck in a nine to five, like in a cubicle thing, because it's like I would see this with my tech coworkers, where it's like, you know, it's like some, you know, one of my coworkers is telling me like, oh, I'd really, rather, like you know, go be, you know, living in San Diego or living in San Francisco, instead of being stuck out, you know, in more central California, away from the coast and things like that. And I'm like, well, just say that you're going to do that, like you're very talented, like you can easily get a job anywhere else. So the worst is, you get a job somewhere else and they're just like no, I'm going to wait for a better time. I just didn't seem like a good time to ask for that and I'm meanwhile I'm just like I'm going to go work from, you know, from Tulum for a week because I want to, and I'm not actually going to ask for permission, I'm just going to do it.

Speaker 2: 32:50

Yeah, and I also I also relate to as well because I realized that before I went to go live abroad as an English teacher, like I told a lot of people and people thought I was crazy. They're like, why would you leave everything in the USA your friends, your family, your work? I said because I wasn't happy. I needed to just like go out there and like really explore the world and see, like you know what, what I like best. And I realized how addicting the expat lifestyle is, because I went from Thailand, korea, mexico and the rest of Spain and I didn't stop, I just kept going and going and going. So like now I have this video here, but I'll go back to Madrid in June because my friend's getting married yeah, definitely.

Speaker 3: 33:26

Oh wonderful. Yeah, it is interesting how we can kind of turn just about anything into a drug, an addiction or a distraction, and and so just an awareness of that. But I'm always a fan of, at least you know, getting out of one addiction, at least getting into something else, cause I think once we get going it's hard to go back to. However we were. It's it's really sad We've actually settled at a higher state of being, whatever that ends up being for us, yeah.

Speaker 2: 33:51

Yeah, yeah, it's true, yeah. So, in terms like your, your business and whatnot, how long did it take for you to like launch your your coaching business?

Speaker 3: 34:02

So I I'm trying to remember I I launched my like, I I created that, an actual like business entity. I think it was like right at the beginning of 2020, could have been the end of 2019 when I started um, but it was like, oh, I'm going to actually like make a go, Like I was kind of doing coaching, you know, within the company I was working for sort of unofficially and um, and I was. Then there was well, and then it's in hindsight I was, I would made attempts to coach people without without them wanting to, uh, just because it's like they. I was like if they were, if they would be better than my life would be easier, and so this was like not the nicest way to coach people. And so I've since learned that I people need to opt in Um and most people in relationships like don't like to be fixed. It's just like just listen to me, just listen to me and um, and so I that was in 20 and I'm still growing. It's still a learning thing.

Speaker 3: 34:55

I think like, um, you know, I still feel like I'm I'm building up, building up, Um. It's probably one of those many things made in a couple of years. It'll I'll be an overnight success, um, but it will have taken like five years. Uh, but it's a slow build, learn, cause it's really.

Speaker 3: 35:12

It's like I'm I'm the product in a lot of ways. It's like, yes, there's a lot of tools, techniques and things like that, but it's really like how can I be the person that is an example of, that, shares that energy and then is able to present that in a way, but also get the message to someone in a way that they go oh, this is for me Again, like how do I come to somebody where they're at and get them to like start this, this journey, which is, you know, like any travel journey? It's it's got some pains in the ass and it's like, but it's, you got to like realize it's worth it. I mean, still, there's times like when I've jumped get you know, it's like just the we're doing this boarding for the airplane, Like again, like this 30 minute process to just get out, get 180 humans into it, into a metal tube, and there's a little bit of like it's not the most fun part of the journey.

Speaker 3: 36:04

But then, like, you end up somewhere, like you know, chang, my Thailand and you're like I'm so glad I like went through that you know, however many hour pain in the ass and any growth journey, I feel like, kind of has those aspects, and so it's how, how to get to somebody and go like, hey, this is going to be worth your while, definitely. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 36:24

Yeah it's a lot of trial and error and and feedback and, yeah, just learning and adapting, like I don't know there's. There's a sort of an old coaching saying that's like how you do one thing is how you do everything. So it's like how I build my coaching business is how I do my relationships, how I do my friendships, how I do like other stuff, and so it's like try something out and learn from it. And then again, like like Mickey was saying, don't, don't, let the naysayers stop me, because I've definitely had some, some naysayers. You know families, sometimes the most challenging, I don't know what was your, your guys experience oh yeah.

Speaker 3: 37:02

Travel or do something different? Yes, yeah, yes, 100%.

Speaker 2: 37:07

I come from a very traditional family, like Eastern European family. They want me to like stay here and I was like I don't want to stay here. So, again, like I, I like the fact that you brought up, you know, arnold Schwarzenegger, because, even though the fact that, like he had some naysayers, he still went on to do what he wanted and like he listened to his inner voice, he listened to himself and he's like, well, at the end of the day, I have myself. If you, if you think about it, it's like you have yourself and you need to do what's best for yourself, because you know you have your family members. You gotta do what's best for yourself and you know you're not really you know. So that's the most important thing too, as well, you have to make sure you feel happy in terms like your environment, like where you are as a person, because that's how I feel it is. But, yeah, absolutely I agree.

Speaker 3: 37:51

Yeah, I mean, we're the ones that are accountable to ourselves for how, how we enjoyed our life whenever we get to the end of it. Right, yeah, like I I don't know if I've ever heard anybody say like the you know, when they're close to dying, I would have made my parents more proud, or something like that. I think sometimes they'll be like I wish my parent, my dad or my mom would have loved me more. But I view that as just like a. They never got around to the perspective that the love that we're looking from from our mom or our dad, is something that ultimately, we figure out how to provide for ourselves. That's right, not?

Speaker 2: 38:25

every person. Whether it's friends or, like you know, a person you're dating or whatever. But yeah, absolutely, it's true. I wanted to ask you how do you find your clients typically?

Speaker 3: 38:36

So a good amount is like through through word of mouth, I would say like or just people that have been following me for a good amount of time.

Speaker 3: 38:44

Yeah, but it's like I have lots, of, lots of avenues Like.

Speaker 3: 38:48

One thing that I've been doing for like the past couple, couple months is like a basically like every every Wednesday I have an offering where someone can get sort of some free, free learnings from me, so like a little bit of like how to, how to live an ideal life in a more effective, faster way.

Speaker 3: 39:06

And another thing where it's like I do a little like one-on-one hot seat coaching, so I have, like these opportunities and then then that's how people can kind of like go like, because I want it to be a good fit, not just for them but for me, because it's sort of like, you know, mentoring coaching, it's a very, very intimate thing, and so it's like you want to feel like, okay, I can tell this person like my deepest, darkest challenges, fears, things like that. So then we can work with them and improve how it is, cause it's I don't know it's and it's interesting how, how much people keep private, even from their spouse or whatever, and you know. So that's great for me to be able to that person where it's like, you know, almost like a therapist. You know it's like, but I'm not. I'm not a therapist, I don't. I'm not the rapist. People don't have to worry, I'm not here to like, do anything to you or take anything.

Speaker 1: 39:59

But yeah, I have a question Did you ever did some kind of workshops? Because I went to a workshop from another coach and I like that because it was not only the one-to-one, it was also a group of people, and then it was more so guided that they could ask some questions and was like a group of people, right.

Speaker 3: 40:30

Yeah, yeah, I love doing small group coaching, where it's like I'll take people through some material and then do Q&A or coach on a topic that comes up. So I like to do those offerings every now and then, and in fact, the one that I'll have coming up at the end of December, if people want to sign up, it's justinwinkcom, so that's like a small group coaching world. I teach something that helps people sort of, yeah, learn how to have their ideal life faster and easier, and so that's like for a group of people. And then there's an opportunity to like ask questions. And it's so powerful like being with a group of people because sort of like you get to benefit not just from however you learn something, but also from somebody else learn something or from somebody else's question. Because I know for myself when I do group stuff, like somebody might ask a question that like I didn't even know I had that question and so, or maybe I did, but I was afraid to ask, or I didn't know how to word it, and somebody asked and it's like, oh, that's exactly what I needed to know. So it's so powerful working like in groups.

Speaker 3: 41:42

A lot of people sometimes are nervous and shy, but really we're also similar that it's like 80% of problems we all have, we all share. Then we think like, oh, nobody's, nobody's ever had something like this happen to them from a family member. Like nobody's ever nobody's had issues with somebody that's been addicted, nobody's ever had a partner that's, you know, treated them poorly, nobody's ever had challenges with. You know, substances are eating too much or drinking too much is like we've all had those problems or been impacted by people. And I think that's also one of the things is to realize that, oh wait, I'm not the only one. Like other people have these challenges too. So, yeah, I do love to do group stuff because it's so, it's so powerful and it's also a good way to just meet impacts. You know a lot of people's lives because, one to one, there's only so many hours in a day, right?

Speaker 2: 42:33

That's true. It shows all your right. That's actually really cool.

Speaker 3: 42:38

Wow, I think it's really about to anybody like try a group, a group group, anything like you know, even if it's like a 12 step, like there's free things, like a lot of people like, oh, there's no help, and it's like there's so much help in the world.

Speaker 1: 42:50

It's ridiculous.

Speaker 3: 42:51

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 42:54

So I think that inspires some, some yourself, if you're here, also from someone else. That's what you just said, right, and you mean. I like this. I mean, when I work in this tech industry, I went to this kind of training of resilience and so whatever, so to make you a better employee, but anyway so, and I also, when I was younger I read a lot of books about this kind of stuff, so I was always fascinated about to learn more about myself.

Speaker 3: 43:33

Yeah, and it's just there's so many ways that we can learn about ourselves and it's just kind of like the right, the right form at the right time and it's it's usually. It's amazing how kind of the more indirect is, usually the more the more effective. Like I know mickey, like you're big on mickey, and it's like story is like really like how we learn the best of just about anything, which is is why, if you look at any and I think the call you you're like you said you're a brand ambassador and so I'm sure you know about the power of story and things like that, it's like you just say like you know this, this thing has a 15% increase in that thing and so you should do the thing. Those people like whatever, but it's like if it's like, well, you know back in, you know, when Warren Buffett was a kid, he only started with $15 and then he put that $15 into this and you can then sprinkle in all these numbers and all these facts with narrative and things like that ends up being more powerful, which is well, I don't know if I've I don't know if I've shared this publicly, but I did.

Speaker 3: 44:32

I've written another book that's a fictional piece that I'm working on getting like edited and published, but kind of for that purpose of the like more people will read a fun, interesting, entertaining story and then maybe they'll like get some benefit out of it. Compared to like my you know my my book it's called engineered to love, going beyond success to fulfillment like it's great, it's really well written. But it's sort of a standard like here's my life story and then here's some coaching exercises and that works great for some people but like not everybody wants to like read a biography or do coaching exercises.

Speaker 1: 45:03

So yeah, but, but you asked me that I so great on story, but you know that actually comes from, I mean and that has something to do with me that I read the biography of Steve Jobs and I'm also was involved with some I'm in cynic and I always start with why, why you want to help someone, why if your solution better than others and that's the storytelling you mean. And also, it's always more powerful to say if you're really well in personal listen, I went to the same thing because that creates empathy, isn't it?

Speaker 3: 45:49

Oh yeah, I think it's like oh wait, because I can relate that you were somewhere similar to me and then you got to somewhere I want to go which is way more powerful than the. Well, here's how you should do it. Like I'm sure somebody had come to Nicole when she was living in Chicago, goes like, hey, you should be a digital nomad, you just got to do this and this and this should have been like screw off. But then, like seeing these people, it's like doing it and then that they're like wait, they weren't so different from me.

Speaker 3: 46:19

The why the why I do find interesting, because why is a very powerful word. It's almost like I don't know, like an assault weapon of words that can be used to do some really great stuff for us, but can also be used to harm and keep us stuck. Sometimes, when like something bad happens or like we're having a hard time, sometimes we're like well, why, like what? Why? Why is nobody, like you know, signing up for my, my class or downloading my podcast? And then our mind there's like a saying I think again in Buddhism, like the mind is filling jewel says basically, whatever you put into your mind, your mind is going to like work on it and spit something out, and so if you ask a camera foot sign, stein, or maybe it's a Tony Robbins quote, but it's like the quality of your life is determined by the quality of your questions, so it's sort of like. So one of the things that I like to teach is called like identity installation questions, which is where it's sort of like presupposes that you are like the person that has something you want. So, so, like a few, if you want to like write something really compelling, it's like why am I such an amazing, compelling writer? And then like you just kind of like then go on to another thought, but like your subconscious is going to try to come up with reasons to support that Like the why, the why to do something that that I don't think. That's like a really interesting question, mickey, of Because because sometimes we don't always have like the good motivations right, and so I think there might be sometimes like the bullshit reason that is part of like the marketing story, that it's like you know the company, because companies like tell us like you know. It's like why does Amazon do so that we can have the best customer experience? And you know, help people and what you know. That's the, but it's like we. It's, at least in America, all of the companies. They're profit driven. Everything period is to make more money, maximize profits, period, end of story. Anytime it happens to benefit people is because some beautiful, amazing individuals somehow managed to do like those backflips to connect that that thing that might actually help is going to make more money. Otherwise it doesn't get done and companies can actually.

Speaker 3: 48:29

There's actually a company in California that got convicted of murder. It's PG&E are the big provider of electricity. Most of California got convicted of murder because they were so negligent in doing their, their maintenance that it caused that. It was seen as like, oh, this was very likely to result in wildfires that killed like 86 people in one of like a few years ago. And they got convicted of murder. And somebody did the cost benefit analysis that like, oh, it's going to be more money will get, make more money if we don't do the maintenance and risk killing people. And that's by that's the corporate, that's the current American corporate, why? And so some some people wonder like why are things so messed up? Like that's it like other countries? I think they actually kind of do you have different rules that like that can't be your only why? So? But again, that's mostly in the in the US, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 49:23

But, this is in track.

Speaker 1: 49:25

This is interesting. I mean, of course, this why I came from Simon Sinek, who is American, right and you're right, is all this corporate teaching or coaching to make the employees better came from there. But this is again my, my identity, that actually I came. I don't know how many years ago or two years. America lived in Canada, lives in the US, but I have. I was born in Europe, so I have this, this, this roots to, and, and then I looked also in the other kind of philosophy, buddhism in the US, because I was interested in this. So now I got this all, all in me and I find that that's why I'm saying now I'm making this, this improvement, because I put it all together and I finally understand myself why, why certain behavior of me, and I figured it out, and this is why I say the time in Madrid helped me, because it's happened at that time at that location.

Speaker 3: 50:34

Yeah, and I think in some ways like a real genuine, because sometimes you know there's like practical, wise, of like well, this is how I make money, if I don't make money, I'm not going to be able to survive, right? Or like, well, if I do this, then people look up to me and I'll get validation and people think that I'm somebody important, whereas I think when we get to like a really fundamental, like sole, like sole purpose, I think there's almost like no words. It's just like you just keep getting drawn to doing, to like just doing the thing over and over, no matter how ridiculous or how challenging or whatever. Because, like I know, like with the coaching, mentoring I've got like a really good friend from from high school, you know he's like a VP at like a software company and he said to me I was like just why are you in this? Why do you do this? Like this is like the most challenging thing you could possibly do.

Speaker 3: 51:29

There's so many easier ways to make money, like if you, if you like, bought like a gardening business, like you know how much money those things make, you know in certain areas of the country.

Speaker 3: 51:38

And he's like you know, because it's like you not only have to be able to coach people, but you also have to do marketing, you have to, like, run a business, you have to there's like you have to do sales. There's so many things in a coaching business that are required to even be mediocre at it, and I'm just like I'm just compelled, just this is just what I'm drawn to do, like I just like when I'm in it, I'm I'm lit up, I'm like I feel like I'm doing what I meant to do, and I think sometimes there doesn't have to be much more than just like. This is just what I want to do, and I think it's okay for us to sometimes own that that like because I, because this is just what I feel like doing, because, if you if you really, if you really back up, like a lot of stuff like makes zero.

Speaker 3: 52:19

There's no logical sense to like just about anything in existence Like you know, like like art is, you know, for the fundamental but almost just anything else, any anything created, but at some point we just go like well, this is functional, but there's lots of ways things could function, like we could all be using air balloons to fly around, like somebody could make that happen. It's always funny watching like science fiction or they you know it's like oh, it's air, air balloon based flight economy. So it's just, however, whatever we want, and I think, owning that, that I don't have to have a reason. I agree too.

Speaker 2: 52:56

So especially if you like want to, especially if you're talking about it and like brings you like so much passion and it brings you happiness and it's just very natural, so that that could also like be a factor as well, like when you help other people. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 53:10

Yeah, I have a question. So you, as I heard you, you did this other kind of job, and how? How did it started that you said, oh, I want to do actually something else. I mean you said you got a PhD in engineering or microelectronic something, and then how you discovered that that's not actually what you wanted to do. Can elaborate more on this?

Speaker 3: 53:45

Yeah, well, there's still aspects of that that I like really do enjoy, because it does like light up a part of my, my brain and use talents and things that allow me to see like the big picture and problem solve and things like that. So there's still aspects that I have that that I enjoy. Yet there was like there's a the big human connection, human impacts piece that was kind of missing and it was, you know, as going along doing tech work. You know, especially with a PhD, at some point you know you start to know things and you know it's there's. There's other people that need to be brought up to speed. You know new hires or interns and I really discovered that, like I really liked mentoring and coaching. You know people that were new, things like that, and that was like sort of the beginning of like oh, this really lights me up and it's great People seem to really benefit from you know how, how do I interact with them? Of you know with the perspective they get, the shift and then the changes and things like that.

Speaker 3: 54:43

And you know enough experiences of people going like, yeah, you know when you said that or, yeah, talk enabled me to do this and now I can't believe that I'm doing this and that this is now happening for me, and it's like, okay, yeah, I really like this. Apparently, I have some attitude for it. So, yeah, let me do more of it in the company. And then at some point I'm like let me start my own business so that I can help people anywhere, not just people that work at the company that I've been working at, but it can help anybody in the world in any field. But I still, you know, more easily connect with people that are like, you know, professional corporate environments. But it's one of those. Sometimes we have connections with people that have completely different backgrounds as well, which is sort of the fun part of meeting people and connecting with people, right, but you studied also the stuff that you started.

Speaker 1: 55:37

You was in yoga, you started this kind of maybe mindfulness and other philosophy, so you was already involved in that. What helps you know for your coaching, wasn't it?

Speaker 3: 55:49

Yeah, so it was. Yeah, I was like, in retrospect I was, you know, doing all these other things that were sort of in preparation for this because, like, even before I got into yoga, I had gotten into meditation because I was in in grad school I ended up getting like really depressed, going on anti depressants and I was like I don't. I didn't want to get on anti depressants to start because, like, well, what if this takes away the one thing that you know makes me like good in school, and then I'm just I'm completely worthless, which, you know, was that like sort of the mind can get into thought patterns that are not helpful, and so we kind of have to get out of that. But I didn't want to be on anti depressants for the rest of my life because you know they'll, they'll happily let you take any drug forever here in the US and they'll pay for it and you'll pay for it. So I was like I want to get into meditation and so I ended up in like a sort of a Buddhist, tibetan Buddhist inspired meditation group called like Shambhala.

Speaker 3: 56:49

That, like one of the most famous practitioners is this Pima children she's. She's got a like a lot of books, like whenever books, collect the wisdom of no escape and things like that. But so I was like where I got into meditation and mindfulness initially, and sitting with myself and learning to work with my thoughts, and but again, like that has had a very Eastern cultural influence, which makes it, you know, it's like in retrospect I'm like, oh, that's why that was so challenging, because there's, like most Eastern traditions, there's most people that have like a love for themselves, whereas usually here in the West we start with like a hatred of ourselves, like I'm not good enough, I suck, and so then when we try to like meditate, it just gives us time. And another thing to laments of like oh, I'm so bad at this meditation, I keep having thoughts, I'm a failure, I suck at this when really that's the mind thinking is just the mind doing what it's supposed to do. Like we don't get upset at the heart when it beats or the lungs when they breathe for us. So like when the mind has a thought, that's what it's supposed to do, it's what we do with.

Speaker 3: 57:59

It is the key. It's like we don't, we're not supposed to follow every thought. We're supposed to go like Okay, that's cute, we're going to do this now. We're going to, we're going to keep following our breath in this meditation practice, or we're. It's like that's, that's great. You think, you think someone's a jerk. We're not going to follow that. We're going to like see that this person is a human and could have, like some valuable information for us, and it's just that that exercise, that going back and forth, is what that's like the work and the magic of working with the mind instead of the mind working us. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 58:35

So that was then again sorry. That was then again something you use as an alternate treatment instead of taking the pills. You started meditation. So it's based again on a personal experience, right?

Speaker 3: 58:51

Yeah, yeah, definitely yeah, and so this is, like you know, ends up being something that I'm, an experience, a pathway I'm able to like, offer and show that's possible to people by example, and then, you know, through through coaching, through mentoring and it's I don't know, drugs are interesting because there's really anything that you can come that we take externally. We can also generate internally, like we don't actually need, you know, to take anything like, including, you know, the psychedelic plant medicines like I've had. I've had experiences, you know, without taking anything that have outdone, you know, any ayahuasca or mushroom thing that I'd ever, I'd ever experienced, and so, for me, I'm like you know, and you and you know what what you just said is so amazing?

Speaker 1: 59:35

because I found that out 20 years ago.

Speaker 2: 59:37

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 59:38

That, all this this, all this external stuff, what they're, what they're doing, whatever that you actually if you're really able to create it, by yourself, I mean and the reason why I found that out was because I have all my life problems with sleeping, and then, if you don't sleep, you fall sometimes in this kind of meditation, even you don't know about meditation, because you're in this trance, right.

Speaker 2: 1:00:04

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:00:05

And then, and then I remember I had this discussion with some students and medical students that you know, if someone is in drugs, then you have to take them away to sleep, and then they're find something similar, and then this is the way to to get them away from the drugs, and and then, and they're doing it, I don't know 10 years later. I mean, you can teach yourselves. Not everyone can just, of course, to use, without external stimulation, to put yourself in a trance state or in a high state. That's what I believe and I have done this with you.

Speaker 3: 1:00:44

Yeah, and I mean, sometimes it does, it's super helpful to have that external thing that lets you know that such a such a state, whatever it might be, is possible Because, again, like, sometimes it's really hard to try to get out of where we are without knowing that there is another destination is possible. So sometimes it's, you know, good to have whatever that altered state is to get you know, because I've heard that it's often, like you know, when people do psychedelics, it's like they usually get that oh, I feel I'm connected, I'm one with everyone, like I am you, you are me, and the thing is it's like the drug lets you visit that, but you don't get to stay there, but, like, when you actually start to cultivate, like the, you know the, the lifestyle, the way of being, then you get to live there more and more and you know it's sort of, at least to me, to me, it's like you know the concept of being enlightened, being. It's your, your living. You're living in that state, as you know, almost continuously, and I think for most of us, the higher the percentage we can do it, the higher quality your life is going to be and the higher quality of life everybody's life is going to be. But if we just do it every time it's it's only through the drug, then it's only through the drug.

Speaker 3: 1:01:54

But I think there can be benefit to sometimes using these things, to getting like a like. Oh well, here's a. You know, it's like watching a. It's like watching a movie, a travel movie. It's like you get a, you get a taste of like. Oh, this is what it might be like to go to Madrid, but you know, it's nothing like living in Madrid, right, like. But it's like if you didn't have the movie or the uh, karen, or you know, the one day, what is those like T Kentucky cruises the Australians do, where they like literally spend like three hours in each location or something. It's like they got a taste, they get. They barely got a taste, but maybe they'll come back, right, so now.

Speaker 1: 1:02:30

I have to challenge. Sorry, now I have to challenge you because I don't think I don't. I think you can fool yourself to say I mean, and that will be also the future and technology? There's another science fiction movie where, where they're actually putting people a mask on and then they see this 3D and then let them experience that you actually in Madrid, but you're sitting only on a chair connected to a computer. So this is is happening and I think the human brain at one point don't see the difference in the moment.

Speaker 3: 1:03:12

I mean, that's a whole interesting topic, this you know of. Uh, that's like a full members. Well, you know it's, you're basically it's like speaking to, like you know, the, the matrix becoming a reality, right? Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1: 1:03:25

And there's another movies who actually showcase of that. And there was a movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger because we had him before they went to, you know, I think to this kind where they actually told him he's traveling to Mars, but he was still on Earth, right.

Speaker 3: 1:03:42

Oh, it's total recall. I don't know if I actually ever saw that, yeah, yeah. Well, I think they um oh uh. Nicole is good meeting you.

Speaker 2: 1:03:51

I have a meeting for work. Bye guys, thank you for everything. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 3: 1:03:55

Bye yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:03:56

Thank you.

Speaker 3: 1:03:57

I'll finish up and we'll yeah. Thanks so much for inviting me. Um, well, I think that to me it's like, yeah, is that, that's a possibility. Yet I think, if we believe that the, the mind, you know, and this is, I'll be clear of the brain of sort of that logical thinking, that was just that, if, if we think that that's all there is to our consciousness, our human experience, then but I think to me, I, I, my experience and belief is that there's, there's more to us than just that, that there's something to do with the body and you know, some things like that, and that that part which, like even in the matrix movie there, ends up being, you know, neo, having this, like there's something off with this and this drive for figuring it out and getting out of it, and I think it's, it's one of those like there's more. You know, it's like you could recreate Madrid as much as you could, but I think you know we were talking about how, like, there's just something about Madrid and its altitude and where it is, that I think there's something like you can't replicate that, and so there will still be something special about Madrid, even if someone could, you know, plug in and get that.

Speaker 3: 1:05:05

And you know, again, like, will some people choose to go for the fake thing? It's like, of course, of course, and but I think we will kind of like, make these choices of like, well, let me try the fake thing, and then at some point some of us wake up and go, no, I want the real deal. I'm going to, you know, because some people just do drugs their whole life and they don't actually get to the real. You know the real joy, the real bliss of having, like an amazing human connection right, or the blissful travel experience of like, oh my gosh, I'm in this mountain that I've never seen, you know, before, and I can feel it, the wind and all of that. And you know, some, some people are ready to take that dream and others just want to stay doing. You know, the fake thing, or the limited thing, and I don't really, I don't fault anybody for that, as long as you know, people like you and me, mickey, can, can have the experience we want to have.

Speaker 1: 1:06:03

Yeah. So to wrap it up, I mean.

Speaker 1: 1:06:09

I had to, and I think we would have to make another session. But I want to say now something I had to learn that how I experiencing not everyone does, and that's the difference, right, because I know that I'm very sensitive, that I, that I feel I experienced things others than most of the people, and I found it out in the last couple years. And then the key to to explain all my experience, why I had, with I don't know 12 years old, an awareness about myself. I mean, nobody has this kind of awareness, but I don't want to put it also said, I'm so unique or whatever, but this is just what I, what I, what I deal with, and that's where I started to write, to make music, to do things, to just process all this right. And then I made a decision to go in a normal life and then something happened to me that I almost had to die. To understand this, I have to go back, and that's my journey in a not case.

Speaker 3: 1:07:26

That's a beautiful journey, mickey. It's a. It's a gift to be able to have a journey like that, to get the awareness and then figure out what's important by almost literally losing everything.

Speaker 1: 1:07:40

Yeah, I mean, but even even I'm struggling in a way, but I don't know other way. I'm happy because I'm happy with my choices, and then and I just keep going right. I mean, and I learned so much about myself in the last, actually, since I came to Spain the last two years First Barcelona, then Madrid, but Madrid was to me level two.

Speaker 3: 1:08:10

Second, second level of life experience I love. I love that this podcast should be endorsed by the city of Madrid tourism board, but I've been doing some good stuff for them.

Speaker 1: 1:08:21

Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe I can work on this, but I don't have connections, but anyway, but, but, but if we can. But I mean to wrap it up, but I hope it was an interesting conversation. I I felt it right. I mean I had a, I had a good time and it makes actually I want to even more. I mean, but that's up to you, up to you guys.

Speaker 3: 1:08:47

Yeah, I've been having fun. I think this is might be one of the longest podcasts interviews I've I've done so far, and it's just it's flown by and I, yeah, I'd love to talk to you guys again sometime, you know, and circle back on some other topics or something. And yeah, I also split this, this show up, or maybe it just ends up being a long show. I don't know, we'll find out. It's fun, there's so much possibility.

Speaker 1: 1:09:11

Yeah, so then even me recording. I tell you that I produce. I don't want to make them too long. I like more and more and more episodes. And it should give me the file, I will. I will cut it because I like this more, because I'm not a fan of of all on our podcast. Sometimes it happens.

Speaker 3: 1:09:31

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:09:32

But it's been, but for me it's like but you have to also find a way how we, you can make a break, and that that's the producing part, and I'm, that's, that's my challenge, then, to figure this out.

Speaker 3: 1:09:48

Well, I look forward to hearing how, how you slice it, dice it, prepare it and what, what music. It's cool to find out that that's you put your own music in, because I was listening to some of the shows I'm like. I'm like, is this just background music? Are there something where it's like this sounds like other music, but this also sounds unique? And then I think I finally got that it's your music. I love that. I love that.

Speaker 1: 1:10:11

To, to. To tell you a secret some sometimes I go to Madrid and record also what's happening on the street, and there's so many street musicians. And then you go to a metro station and then someone plays and that sounds like totally different, right.

Speaker 2: 1:10:27

Because it's a mix of things.

Speaker 1: 1:10:30

I call it also Madrid sound bites, but some of the stuff is also produced by me, so I have to tell the truth.

Speaker 3: 1:10:39

Oh cool, well you're, you're curating, selecting, so I appreciate that. Well, thanks so much for having me on and it's good talking to you Good conversation and, yeah, let's maybe do this again sometime.

Speaker 1: 1:10:53

Yeah, and then, by the way, I will put all what I find about you in social media in my podcast description. That's what I do for everyone, and then I hope that I had fun and let's do it again Whenever it's mixed with us.

Speaker 3: 1:11:12

Yeah, sounds great. Yeah, you have a. Well, it's evening where you are. Have a good, good evening and take care.

Speaker 1: 1:11:20

And you have a good, good day in California.

Speaker 3: 1:11:23

Appreciate it. Bye, Mickey and bye.

Speaker 1: 1:11:28

Thanks to you, bye, bye.