How Values Lead to Easier Life Changes with Darren Reinke

In this episode, I discuss how major life changes can become much easier when we know our values with Darren Reinke, founder of The Savage Leader, an executive coaching and training company focused on building great leaders and teams from the inside out.

Transition is the name of the game in this episode,  and we start with a story from Darren's youth with a leap from defeat on the baseball diamond to the basketball court confidence to serve as a powerful metaphor for the mental resilience that's equally essential in the professional and personal realms.

We capture the essence of the trapeze artist's dilemma; letting go of the known to seize new opportunities. This episode is a treasure trove for anyone facing life's daunting crossroads, offering wisdom on embracing transformation with confidence and grace. The journey leads us to the importance and benefit of aligning personal values with the pursuit of achievement.

It's a conversation enriched by the philosophies of thought leaders like Mark Manson, Jay Shetty, and the indomitable David Goggins, dissecting the intricacies of living a life that's authentically yours.

Whether you're charting a course in your career or seeking a compass for personal fulfillment, this discussion is a beacon of inspiration, guiding you towards a life resonant with your deepest convictions.

Darren is the author of “The Savage Leader: 13 Principles to Become a Better Leader from the Inside Out”, a leadership book that provides a blueprint for becoming a great leader. To get started on understanding your values go to https://www.thesavageleader.com/values.

Connect with Darren:
https://www.thesavageleader.com
 https://www.linkedin.com/in/darrenreinke/

Watch the full video episode at Justin Wenck, Ph.D. YouTube Channel!

Check out my best-selling book "Engineered to Love: Going Beyond Success to Fulfillment" also available on Audiobook on all streaming platforms! Go to https://www.engineeredtolove.com/ to learn more!

Got a question or comment about the show? E-mail me at podcast@justinwenck.com.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:03

Are you ready to live a life with enough time, money and energy, have relationships and connections that delight you? Are you ready for the extraordinary life you know you've been missing? If so, then this is the place for you. I'm a bestselling author, coach, consultant and speaker who's worked in technology for over two decades. I'm a leader at transforming people and organizations from operating in fear, obligation and guilt to running off joy, ease and love. It's time for Engineering Emotions and Energy with me, justin Wink, phd. Today we're going to be talking about what do you do when you're in that part of life when you might just be floating, like you might have recently changed jobs, lost a job, maybe you've lost someone you've loved, maybe your relationship has ended, but you're in that space where it's like what has been working it's just not going to happen anymore and it's time to do something different, and maybe you don't exactly know what it is, and I'm not here to just talk about that all on my own.

Speaker 1: 1:09

I've got a fantastic guest with me. It's Darren. He's the founder of the Savage Leader. He's an executive coach. His company also does training and they're focused on building great teams from the inside out and great leaders. The Savage Leader is his company that he founded, and it works with leaders and teams at Fortune 500, mid-market companies, fast growing startups and visionary non-profit. Darren is also the author of the Savage Leader 13 Principles to Become a Better Leader from the inside out. It provides a blueprint for becoming a better leader. It's really a fantastic, easy read, with a mix of interviews, personal stories and then practical tips so that you can actually implement it. Available on Amazon, I'm sure probably lots of other places, so I'd highly recommend it. So, darren, so good to see you again. We've actually chatted before, so it's so good to see you and connect. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:01

Yeah, great to reconnect, great to have you on.

Speaker 1: 2:03

Yeah, so in your book there was one story that I kind of felt was a great. It's actually your 13th principle about learning from your past stories. You have a story where you talk about I think it's your senior year playing baseball and you had been so used to being kind of like almost a superstar, and you were definitely not a superstar. You kind of rode the bench and I think you said your last game was kind of demoralizing because they didn't even let you hit. They put you in right field, which I believe is the worst position in baseball or something, because it's like nobody ever Most only left-handers like me would ever possibly hit out to right field, I think.

Speaker 1: 2:38

So did you ever play baseball competitively after that? Or was that kind of like the end? So was that almost like a floating point? Because I know you learned the value of hard work from that, because you kind of looked back at the season and was like I didn't really work all that hard and you just weren't feeling it. Or maybe there's a better time in your life where you've sort of been in that floating space?

Speaker 2: 2:58

Yeah, no great question, I would say. I've been floating a lot of times and that experience was interesting because I wouldn't quite qualify as a superstar in baseball. But I definitely had success. One was on the All-Star teams, was MVP of our JV team of the sophomore and then, for whatever reason, just didn't click for me in baseball. A lot of it was the coaches weren't really super inspiring to me and coming out of that I blamed the coaches. But it was really upon reflection where I learned we were on equal footing.

Speaker 2: 3:30

There were some major political dynamics at play but I didn't put in the work to separate myself to overcome those political dynamics. And it's funny, history is kind of repeating itself with my son. But that experience it was hard because I remember sitting on the bench and just demoralizing. I walked off the field seeing these parents who'd seen me shine throughout my baseball career and suddenly I was doing the opposite of shining. I was sitting on the bench, which there were some benefits in. There I was able to reconnect with a lifelong friend. He and I were both anchored to the bench. But I was trying to find the silver lining. But it was definitely a moment where it was hard personally.

Speaker 2: 4:08

But to your point about floating, it killed my love for the game for a lot of years. Frankly, from then, for the next four or five years, I didn't watch baseball, I didn't talk about baseball, I would definitely not pick up a ball, because I just really had a distaste for the game that had grown up loving. But it wasn't until in college where I had a chance to get back into it. I don't know what it was, but just since there's a game I loved, why should I let these two guys, these two coaches, take that love away from me? And so I got back involved volunteering, and first I was helping coach a little league team that I managed to team properly the next year. So that was kind of my way of getting back into it and not just letting the story of my past dictate the way I was going to live my life moving forward.

Speaker 1: 4:54

But one thing that I was kind of curious about was, you know, reading it and then now listening to even more of it when you talk about the coaches, because one of the things that struck me I'm like I wonder if there was like a values alignment back then that like part of you knew, but at that age it's almost like I don't think I had any idea of what my personal values might be, because I guess sports can kind of have like their own culture or their own whatever a bit of they can be in alignment with values.

Speaker 1: 5:21

I believe too, because I remember I'm a big fan of George Carlin who had this classic baseball football and I feel like one of your. One thing you value a lot is like teamwork, and is baseball is it really a team sport like a lot of the other sports, or is it really kind of almost like an individual that you like happen to do with other people? And so I was almost wondering if there was because you seem like someone who just loves teams, loves being part of teams, love building team, and I was like, but maybe there was a little bit of like that just wasn't your path, like you know, and has did other sports res end up resonating more, you know, even if you need to. Even to this day you said you've kind of gotten into baseball a little bit after the fact, but I'm just wondering if other sports resonate more or other things you know going to like the values alignment which I know can be so important in things we do.

Speaker 2: 6:06

Yeah, no great question. It's so really relaxed and I find a bit off. Well, first off, basketball was a sport that I immediately jumped into and had had way more success in high school, which made no sense because I had way more natural talent in baseball than basketball. You know, it's basically like the you know 90s version of Bill Ambeer he's to play for the Pistons like refs not looking. I'm giving elbow is talking trash. I was undersized.

Speaker 2: 6:27

But, interestingly enough, I mean baseball, I guess one of my favorite sports, because there's so much of a mental element to it. And, yes, it's a team sport. But when that ball is up in the area you're catching that fly ball late in the game, I mean you're on an island, there's nothing anyone else can do to help you, whereas another sport, someone can actually help you in the middle of a play and it's definitely like a individual sport. When you're standing at the plate, when you're on the mound, the ball hits you, but there is so much of a team element to it and that's actually really hard.

Speaker 2: 6:57

As a coach, actually, I'm very neck deep in baseball. I coach my son's travel ball team. I coach the All Star team, I coach coaching his little league team currently, and it's a challenge to get them to actually row in the same direction, to think about team, because so much of it and so much of society is around individual statistics and so getting them to think about like what's the greater, nor star, and sometimes is putting the ball in play with a guy at third base that scores the run that, yeah, it didn't didn't help them statistically they got an RBI, but I think it actually hurts their batting average but to get them to see that is really hard in a world of individual stats.

Speaker 1: 7:36

Okay, so there is. There is this other level of strategy and thing like that that, yeah, because I've always thought of baseball relies on more of an individual thing, but the things you mentioned, it's like, oh yeah, there is a lot more going on and yeah, and so I can see now how that actually is in alignment with a lot of the work that you, that you do, so kind of turning a little bit towards. You know that that being in a place of okay, how I've been, in some ways it's a shift of identity to right of, like you know, going from I was I was to me, I still would say you're a superstar. Because when I only played little leg up until I think I was like 11, whenever after after the first year, they let the kids actually pitch because I was left handed, I got beaned like way too many times. So for whatever reason, I guess I just had like a real hittable body and I was just like I'm done. I was only playing right field, I was horrible. So like this is not my sport.

Speaker 1: 8:29

Yeah, that that losing the identity and that that right amount of going to the next thing versus maybe waiting it out and getting a little clarity, because I know something that kind of came to me is a little bit of life can be a little bit like going to the, the circus and the trapeze act, where the real amazing part is when somebody's in between the two, is it a trapeze, whatever the thing that the whole that you hold on to and you're going from one trapeze to the other, you know it's like the magic is when someone's let go and they're in that empty space and it's like are they going to land the next thing?

Speaker 1: 9:04

And but if somebody's just holding on to the one trapeze, it's like. That's like the most boring part is like get to the get to doing the cool stuff. And I think so. I know in my own life it's always been like okay, I want to make sure that when I go from one rung to the next that I don't want to let go of that other rung, and more and more I learned like to really get to a, to have a cool next part of life it's really requires letting go of a lot of that, that previous rung and yeah, what have you found? That's, you know, worked for you, worked for clients and sort of like that. That navigating that, that transition, that I don't think we're really educated in our society and culture to handle well at all.

Speaker 2: 9:42

Yeah, I mean, that's a pretty big question, so I'll start.

Speaker 1: 9:47

Yeah, take it, take it, chunk it.

Speaker 2: 9:48

However, you know it's helpful just because I think about, and I've been in that space many, many times in my career and it's been like a constant. It's called a constant career migration, constant career evolution because things have changed. So for me it's helpful for me to look back, like in the last chapter, you know, looking back to tell you, know, to make sense of your, your, your present and also help guide your future. But for me, I grew up in a very strong health science family. My parents are both veterinarians have to say it slow, not veteran, but veterinarians. My sister's a dermatologist and a human dermatologist, which is funny. People look at me funny when I say that because my mom is a veterinary dermatologist and so sure enough sure enough, I wanted to be a human orthopedic surgeon because my dad's a veterinary orthopedic surgeon.

Speaker 2: 10:36

So I realized halfway through undergrad at UC Davis that, like med school was was just not the path for me for a lot of different reasons, and so I started this journey. You know, whereas before I had this, you know yellow brick road of sorts in front of me, I knew exactly what was coming next. You got to take the MCAT, then you go to med school and you go to intern in your residency and you become a surgeon, right, like that sort of mapped out. But it wasn't mapped out at all. And I found myself being intrigued by the world of business. So my best friend actually was sitting on the bench with me in high school baseball. His dad I was a CFO of a very large bank and advised me to say hey, look at consulting and investment banking, you'll figure it out. Right, you get a lot of exposure. So I did that for four years, worked for Accenture.

Speaker 2: 11:21

Then I realized this is interesting, went to business school, did my MBA at UC Berkeley and just came out and did a bunch of different things and for the most part, a lot of the corporate jobs just lacked a lot of soul for me, because there wasn't that sense of purpose, there wasn't that sense of giving back which really tapped into that desire to be an orthopedic surgeon which the use case for that or the benefit was to help alleviate pain, to get athletes back on the field and just to heal injuries. And so I lacked that. I started an unprofit on the side to help fulfill this sense of purpose, but it still wasn't exactly aligned. So I set upon this, I guess this journey of sorts, which I didn't know, but for me it was all about finding that alignment between success and my values and my purpose, and that's something that I call greatness. But it took me many, many years to even figure that out. Because I'm as ambitious as the next person, that I have big goals for my life, for my career, for my business.

Speaker 2: 12:19

But for me the how really matters, the how meaning the values and making sure that I'm living my life through those values. Because there's a lot of I'll call them easier paths that are just laden with success titles, comp, logos, et cetera. But for me the values wouldn't be there right, go and do. I don't want to just shine anybody, but there's a lot of different professions I could have done and been very successful, but the how would have been lacking. So for me, where I'm at there, floating, if you will was like doing things that like inspired me intellectually but didn't provide that sense of fulfillment. Maybe they were high level, they were oh, that's really cool, you did a project for company X, compensation, et cetera. But like the how was really missing and like the values. Most people don't think about how they think about the process and what you're doing. For me, the how is actually how you actually practice and live out those values while trying to strive and achieve success.

Speaker 1: 13:16

Yeah. So I think kind of what I'm hearing is that, yeah, it's not just about you know the end result, because I don't know, there actually is no end. It is just life really just is process, and so there is no like, there's no getting there, there's no there. It's like once you're there, then it's what's next, and so if there isn't the you know the process that's enjoyable, then it's never actually going to be enjoyable. I mean it really.

Speaker 1: 13:43

I do find it very fascinating how much stuff starts to agree when it whether it's you know, personal development, you know, you know leadership, coaching, or if we're talking like spiritual stuff, yoga and things like that, you know it really does get into. Like you got to figure out how to enjoy what you're doing now and live in a way that you know is in alignment with you. Now, like there's no, oh, we'll do it tomorrow. Like is it the old three beer tomorrow? Sign in front of the bar and you're like, well, that's tomorrow. Then you come back the next day. Well, no, no, that's tomorrow. It's like that's today's the day.

Speaker 2: 14:15

Yeah, it's interesting I'm reading him in the process of three or two fundamentally different books.

Speaker 2: 14:21

Probably not really a lot of the principles are similar, but one is Mark Manson, the subtle art of not giving an F and the other one is Jay Shetty how to think like a monk and I might be totally messing this up, but in some way they both talk about having to enjoy the process of whatever you're trying to do, which is really interesting.

Speaker 2: 14:39

And Mark Manson talks about that like, hey, you know, I wanted to become a musician but I didn't enjoy the process of practicing and getting better, and so whenever I'm experiencing some of the bumps in the road, I go. Maybe I'm not exactly where I want to be success wise, but the process actually, I don't know if I'd call it enjoyable, but learning to write better, speak better, to be, to build better content, to facilitate better coaching, workshops, one-on-one interactions, things like that, like, I actually do enjoy that part of the process, like the impatience in my head. That's not very enjoyable because I'm not getting there as fast and at the pace that I want, but it's super important to like, like you said, enjoy what you're doing. To me it's like the way I'm internalizing those messages and I've realized it's so true, is you got to enjoy the process of what you're doing, because it's not just about that end-stage. There really is no destination.

Speaker 1: 15:30

Yeah, and I think one thing I've been learning more and more is that what's enjoyable in the process is going to be different from person to person. Like I don't know if you're familiar with I can't remember, but it's Navy Seal David Goggins. I think he got pretty. You know he wrote a book and I think he did. He was very big.

Speaker 1: 15:50

One of his stories is like I think he was actually in the San Diego area, I guess you know, navy Seal, he decided to, like, I think, run a triathlon without doing any training and just, you know, completely wrecked his body. But it's like his whole thing is kind of like mind over whatever. And to me I'm like I think that's just a ridiculous way to go about things. But I think, like, but there's the like knowing what you want, what's important, and you know enjoying finding a way to enjoy going through whatever the process is for what matters to you. Like you know going through that was important to him. But you know, to me I'm like that's not the way. I would not enjoy that his process. But I have my other processes that I enjoy and I don't. I think that's sometimes things that maybe get lost in these books, is it's? And I think you even kind of talk about this in your book is it's like you know, make something yours just because somebody says this is the way that worked for them.

Speaker 2: 16:42

Don't just blindly copy paste Like yeah, I'm a huge believer in that. I'm obviously as a uh, consultant form or consultant. His best practices are super powerful, but you got to adapt them to your industry, you got to adapt them to your life and, like you said, people have different processes, for sure, and people have just different values, frankly, right. So yeah.

Speaker 1: 17:02

So it's almost like one of the things, the big themes that it sounds like they're navigating, these times of change of where we're floating or maybe where it really is like the values. And it's one of those things where I know, when I finally kind of figured out like some of my important values a couple of years ago, so much stuff became a lot easier, like you know, from dating to business. Yeah, I don't know, what have you found? But I know not everyone finds it easy to figure out what their values are. What maybe are some things that you found that let someone discover what they're about.

Speaker 1: 17:41

You know so many people if they were brought up a certain way. It's like I value faith and I value family, and sometimes it's like, sometimes people, that's their legit value and then sometimes it's like, well, that's what they were told they should value. I think that's also something for people to be aware of is like you got to find out what you actually value, and I think you even mentioned that values change over time. Like what you might have valued when you were younger you're not necessarily going to value now and that's okay. I think sometimes they think, well, we can't change. It's like, no, we're supposed to change.

Speaker 2: 18:09

Purpose is a word that I've struggled with for a long time and just because I feel like for the most part it feels inaccessible for folks, they feel like they have to have the David Goggins story, they have to have the near-death experience, they have to have this transformational moment, this trip, you know, or walking some trail or hiking some, climbing some mountain or whatnot, and for me it's like you know we do something similar, probably Simon Sinek as well. It's just like getting an understanding of who people are, hearing their stories. You know what's a defining moment in your life. I'm asking them more outright what's your most important personal professional value? You know, what do you want your personal professional legacy to be? And using stories to extract the themes and the words and the values from people, at the same time tuning out the noise of family and friends and the media, and social media in particular, of like what they think your value should be, because it's like you're not going to be successful or fulfilled if you're living someone else's life, someone else's values. Ultimately, it comes down to finding out what truly is authentic to you, and it takes a long time and a lot of reflection too, I mean, I think, introspection, reflection, not pushing those things aside is really helpful.

Speaker 2: 19:22

I mean living in the South of Brazil I talked about this in the book starting my first company, a sort of travel company, in a beautiful town of Florianopolis, brazil, is what I took away from that, beyond the entrepreneurship, beyond learning Portuguese, beyond starting and meeting new friends, is like I realized that one of my most important core values is like freedom of time and space and being able to spend time with those who matter most.

Speaker 2: 19:47

And so at the time was my girlfriend to actually fiance then, and then now wife, mother of my two kids. And so now it's about spending time with my family, like so those those values come up over time. I try to accelerate the process in like a workshop format where we tell these stories and obviously use some introspection up front of the workshop to bring stories into it and to pull those values up, because otherwise it's hard. Right, it's like I'm just going to pull down words that sound good. Same thing goes with corporate cultures right, where they pull these words that really sound good, they're aspirational or what shareholder want, customers or what employees want to hear, but like, if they're not really true and authentic to the ethos and soul of the company you're not going to be successful. It's like how do you actually see those being lived out in your life?

Speaker 1: 20:28

Yeah, I do. I find it funny in a lot of companies, you know, they'll have a value of like accountability or integrity, and it's just like well, that's clearly not actually a real value based off of how the company operates. But I like how you mentioned stories, because I'm thinking about how often I can tell what other people's values are based off of how they behave. You know they might say like, oh, you know, I'm this way and it's like, well, the fact that you show up late all the time without saying anything shows that, like, you don't value communication. Or you know, I don't say this to these people because I'm not here to change somebody unless they opt in to wanting to.

Speaker 1: 21:08

But yeah, I think this kind of goes into like what's the good value of having, like you know, a good friend? And if you don't have a great, a good friend that find a good coach that you can tell your story to, and then they can probably reflect back like, well, it sounds like maybe you value your freedom and you value this thing, because not everybody's going to be able to have that ability to see themselves from the get go. I'm sure you've spent a lot of time learning to cultivate it yourself and then I'm sure that's something you help your, your clients a lot with. But I don't think I've ever thought of that way of getting people's stories as a way to elicit values, because it's how we live, is a reflection, regardless of what we say, it's like what actually happens in our lives, it's our values playing out right and so if we conscious of them, then we can consciously sort of work our story.

Speaker 2: 21:54

I believe yeah, or maybe not playing out. Not everyone is living out their values. They may find that the way they live their life is completely Contradictory of their, of their values. And so one of the things that that we do, once we've defined this like what we call personal greatness statement, which is like the alignment of purpose and success yeah, I'll ask them to reflect on the last month or last week, whatever the time frame is is how do your actions, behaviors and decisions align with that sense of greatness? And so the new one we, just as recent as last night, starting to ask, like feelings also, because feelings it's like how do you feel about your actions, behaviors, decisions? Is that, does that actually align With whatever the way you define greatness is? And so that your values and so forth.

Speaker 2: 22:37

That's something that we that we do as a reflection, but, yeah, also during the process, as you say, hey, here's this value. Well, let's test that a little bit. Hey, justin, how are your actions and decisions and behaviors and feelings over the last week? How do they align with that value just laid out? And if you're like, well, you know, I said my value is this, but Everything didn't align with it, then is that really true for you. So it's like that's a great, so it's a great like Way of assessing a specific value, both in the moment but also in terms of retrospective.

Speaker 1: 23:07

Yeah, I love that well, and I'm curious if somebody is Is basically living against their values, do you believe they could actually even be happy, like can they actually enjoy their life if they're living against their sort of intrinsic values at that time?

Speaker 2: 23:23

I mean happiness. That's a. That's a big one too. You know, it's more, as I find you read, it's more of a decision than than anything else. Right to decision to be happy and being content in your moment.

Speaker 2: 23:34

But I Don't think you'll be fulfilled if you're living, you're not fulfilling those values in some way, if you're just crushing it. That's the whole. That's my whole point about like bringing together success and purpose, and I think people are somewhere on the spectrum of each of those. Some people are like 99% success focused, maybe 1% driven by purpose in your values, and some people are more the other way. Right, so it's like and I try not to judge that, because I do you know people that are like, hey, I want to maximize my income so that I can actually afford vacations with my family and I can afford to retire early.

Speaker 2: 24:07

It's like that's a different. You know it's success to actually serve those values downstream. I find that we can blend those things. Mm-hmm, you're gonna create more, more full fulfillment in the moment Like what Poe Bronson talks about and is one of his books is like not making FU money. It's like I'm gonna go on, I'm gonna make all this money and now I can do it versus actually blending, blending that sense of values in your day-to-day now, which is hard. Most people have struggled to do that.

Speaker 1: 24:31

Yeah, well, because most, most of the systems that we, you know, grow up and work in, they're not, they're not set up to make that that easy or encourage that necessarily. So it takes, it takes a lot of effort to Either find the systems, or find the place where, or find the courage, the strength to live that way. And, you know, I think that's why, why your work and your book is so necessary, is to teach that and bring that of like. Hey, you know, it doesn't matter what your role is, wherever you got to live in alignment with your values, and that's that's what really being kind of the leader, leader is right is to not follow. Just well, here's what you're supposed to do. And, yeah, to do what's what's an alignment for, for you, for me, for whoever not, not just do what our parents did, right.

Speaker 2: 25:16

Yeah, I would say two things. One, which is, you know, our work is helping build great leaders from the inside out. It's like, before you can lead people, you need to figure out how to lead yourself, and it starts with identifying what your most important values are and then building, building or even your external brand building, setting your goals, making sure your decisions, actions and behaviors and feelings align with that. But the other point I want to make is and part of the reason why I've gone down this path is that, for me, finding out a job and a career Was like reading books, like what color is your parachute?

Speaker 2: 25:46

You remember that book oh yeah, trillion editions, but it's really around finding skill, fit and, like you know, in competency fit, it's like to me it misses something absolutely fundamental and that's like the sense of fulfillment. And maybe there is some of it in there, but there definitely isn't like that. Oh, I like to do this, but it's like, well, there's so much, there's a layer below that, that's below the ocean. That's why you know below, like what's inside of you, which is what are your most important values and finding way to live those. I think that's totally missing in terms of the way people explore careers these days.

Speaker 1: 26:19

Yeah, and I think that's starting to shift and I think you're part of it. I want to be part of that shift where it's not just like, well, what are you good at and what's going to make money and provide value for, ultimately, shareholders, but what's going to provide value to my life, to the people I connect with, and things like that. Because, yeah, just being good at something doesn't necessarily mean that you have to do it. I'm thinking of, like the John Wick, like that guy is really good at killing people, and the beginning of the spoiler alert. But there's been like four movies, but the beginning of the movie he wants to not be a killer anymore because he's like found love. He's like I'd rather be a lover. I have, like this great woman I've met and she got me a puppy and but something that happens. And then when we get four movies of he ends up going back to killing people, but he's not happy about it. He's not for no, he's like doing it because that's just what he does.

Speaker 1: 27:07

And I don't think we need to just do something just because that's what we do, because we're good at it. I think we can find that well, what's fulfilling? And because, honestly, sometimes things get boring when we're really good at it, because it's just like what's the point? It's the challenge, right, it's. There's no good, there's no story. It's if it's just like well, I win, I went. If you win the game every time, there's not really much joy in playing. Right, if you go, there's no chance of losing.

Speaker 2: 27:30

Oh, I appreciate the Keanu Reeves reference and then realize that was his transition from being the heartthrobbing to being the killer and then going for the John Wick series. At least that's my take. Yeah, it's your point. I mean, winning is in joy. I'm a competitive person. I enjoy getting the wins, but the how really matters. It's like anchoring it to my values, doing it with its fare, doing it with its fun, doing it with its, not like squeezing at the margins like the New England Patriots have done to win titles and so forth. It's like the how really matters to me in terms of living. That that's the whole success with the values. Piece again.

Speaker 1: 28:07

Yeah, any last thoughts on this topic of kind of like navigating that in between space? I know for me I'm really picking up on the values and our own stories and other people's stories can help guide us into figuring out what that is and that can kind of basically be maybe the you know a bit of the rudder or the way to tell, like, which direction we want to start going in. Any last thoughts on how to handle these sort of transition, transitory times in our life? I swear I know how to speak English. I've, even though I do speak. I was amazed that you lived a year in Switzerland as a kid. I thought that was.

Speaker 2: 28:43

I couldn't believe you went through that that was a whole other experience. But yeah, I'd say just like, in terms of a final thought, is the way I think about greatness and I'm working on this is recently as last night is, to me it's having the bravery to live a life and a career. That's that's, that's that has a sense of purpose spreaded within it. So to me, that's the point is just like and I've learned this from one of the people that I've been working with is like going after greatness requires that sense of bravery. So it's like going after something that's not just because it looks good on your resume, because you can do, but actually it has that sense of fulfillment in line with your values, which requires that sense of bravery.

Speaker 1: 29:19

I love that. Very well said and thank you so much for being on the show. If you do want to connect with Darren, you can find him at the savageleadercom slash values. That's probably the best place to connect with him. First is to go to the savageleadercom slash values and I believe you're also on social media at the savage leader Is that? I believe that's the yeah, connect on LinkedIn.

Speaker 2: 29:39

The savageleadercom is our website. We put up a values exercise to help you start to get to think through those values. If you want to check that out, the savageleadercom slash values and love connecting on LinkedIn.

Speaker 1: 29:51

Yeah, and I feel like this must have been the perfect topic, because we didn't actually agree on talking about something related to values, but that was the link you said was something to elicit values, and then that's just what we happened to zero in on. So the perfect topic with the perfect resources. So definitely go check it out. So thanks, darren, for being on the show and thanks everybody for listening, and good day Thanks for tuning in to Engineering Emotions and Energy with Justin Wink, phd. Today's episode resonated with you. Please subscribe and leave a five star review. Your feedback not only supports the show, but also helps others find us and start their journey of emotional and energetic mastery. You can also help by sharing this podcast with someone you think will love it just as much as you do. Together, we're engineering more amazing lives.