Ep 48: The Transformative Power of Travel with Tom Leegstra

Do you like to travel? Or are you wanting to try it now more than ever after being locked down for over a year? On this Podcast episode I'm talking with Tom Leegstra on his new book "The Transformative Power of Travel."  We talk about the growth that comes out of travel, some nuts and bolts tips, and the emotions that travel brings up and how you can best prepare before you even leave your home. We also talk about getting naked while traveling…is it just a metaphor? Listen to find out!

 Tom Leegstra is a well-seasoned traveler, who was born in the Netherlands and today lives with his wife in the United States. Altogether, Tom has visited forty-three countries. When he is not traveling around the world, he is busy being an author, motivational speaker, and certified life coach and hypnotherapist. ​His mission is to share his passion for travel with as many people as possible. To get a Free overview of how to travel in challenging times, visit https://www.tomleegstra.com/

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Transcript

Justin Wenck: 0:01

Welcome to the engineering emotions and energy podcast. I'm your host, Justin Wenck. Today, we're going to be talking about what I think is a very timely topic very necessary. We're going to be talking about the transformative power of travel. And our guest today is Tom leak strop. And so he's got a new book on this topic, and I read it and I've been just just wowed. And so I do want to let you know a little bit about our guests. So he's a well seasoned traveler. Oh, man, my notes just went out of the way. Got Matt? No, this is it. You're seeing how the sausage sausage is made. So you know, we do i do as much prep as possible. And sometimes the best the best prep just goes completely off the rails when you go live. It's you know, it is it the Bill Gates blue screen of death demo in Windows 95 situation where it's like, you would have thought you would have tested that. And sometimes it still goes wrong. So Tom, he's visited a 43 countries. He was born in the Netherlands, and lives with his wife in the US, we're not traveling. He's a author, motivational speaker, certified life coach and hypnotherapist I've actually had a chance to have a hypnotherapy session with Tom. He's phenomenal. And his mission is to share his passion for travel with as many people as possible. If you want to learn more about Tom, you can go to Tom Lee extra.com, that's going to be in the show notes. And he's got a free overview how to travel in challenging times and coming out of COVID. I don't know if we can get much more challenging than this. So welcome to the show. Tom, thanks for joining.

Tom Leegstra: 1:44

Thank you for having me, Justin, I'm very excited to be on your show. And I've listened to your podcast a few times. And I love this. I love the work that you're doing. And the way you're headed with this. So I'm excited to be part of it.

Justin Wenck: 1:57

Yeah, like I when I saw that you had this book out on on Amazon with the title. I was like, what you got to be kidding. This is like the most timely topic ever, as people are starting to get vaccinated. Or maybe they got the natural vaccination by already contracting COVID. And you know, worldwide restrictions or, you know, maybe if they're not lifted, yet, we're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. And I know I love to travel, but many people maybe have never traveled internationally or maybe now they're like, just scared shitless honestly, because they're not, you know, no, you know, in addition to Oh, was scared before now, well, what are all the restrictions and things like that. So I think this is great for people to start thinking about travel now, like start booking plan, so that, you know, as the summer and fall when it's going to be a lot, a lot more easy, there's gonna be a lot more travel opportunities there. They're ready for it. I like how you start your book, it's a very provocative introduction, where it's Let's start by taking off of our clothes. And at first I was like, boy, did Tom know my first international travel experience where I went to a lesson in Japan when I literally had to take off my clothes to go do that. And then, but really, it's a metaphor for. Because when we go to someplace we've never been before it's vulnerable. And so I thought that in a really great metaphor, and I was just curious, out of all your travel experiences, what has been maybe your most most naked or where you would just felt the most raw? And like, wow, I am. I'm way out of my element, because you've been so many places now.

Tom Leegstra: 3:32

Yeah, I've been to so many places. And then I've been really fortunate because every place teaches you something very different, right? Very unique, that sometimes you don't realize in the moment, but few years later, right? You're you think about those experiences, like wow, I actually learned quite a bit. And I think that's part of what I write about in the book as well. But when it comes to, I guess, the most vulnerable moment, I definitely feel like India because it's such a different environment, right. And even though they're speaking, like the English language, which I guess makes it a little easier to adapt. Just the whole environment is so different, right? It's very raw. It's very real. Ville vilde very disorganized. Did very different style of operation. And yeah, did you just feel like you're it's almost like a sense of overwhelm when you first get there, right. And there's so much noise and so many things happening, cows walking on the street, people honking their cars right at you. And yeah, I feel like that's just such a, like just a wow, you know, you really have to get settled in a little bit and kind of digest a little bit of all the different senses because everything is so heightened. And yeah, more specifically, like India, I'm not sure how familiar you are just with India or if you've ever been there or read about India, but people use You say well be careful what you eat. Be careful about the water that you drink. Right? If be very mindful all of that, but regardless of all of the precautions, still Yeah, one can find themselves in a predicament where you eat something a little too spicy a little off. And yeah, those those moments where you're like, No, I'm not sure if I can make it right. Yeah, so yeah, that was become pretty vulnerable had those moments, especially when you're like, in a foreign country as well?

Justin Wenck: 5:27

Oh, yeah. And it's, it's sometimes it's the it's those bad times, like, what do you did did eat something that didn't agree. And that's where the real growth because there's like the I might I might die, and then you don't? And it's like, oh, well, what else can I do? If I could make it through? Make it through that? Yeah, cuz I haven't been to India yet. It's, it's like, I was actually thinking of like, oh, man, I want to plan an India trip. And you know, found out about your book, and you had a whole section. And there's a lot of similarities between India and I've been to places like Thailand, Philippines, things like that, where it's like, from, from the western perspective, it seems like complete complete chaos. It's like that, yeah, where's the lane markers? People are driving on the opposite side of the road and things like that. And but then there ends up being like, wait, maybe there's maybe there's something to this, like, maybe it's not so great from where I come from? Or maybe there's a little bit of good, because in some ways, there's there's a lot of freedom and a lot of the efficiency when you kind of, you know, let go of well, it's right, because that's where I came from. And just like, Well, let me look from the big picture.

Tom Leegstra: 6:37

Yeah, that is that is so true. That's what I realized as well afterwards, right? I think sometimes when you're in the moment, you, you're so immersed in it, that you cannot really see those realizations yet until afterwards, right? When you really digest your experience and are back in maybe an environment that you do know, where you can really reflect on what you've just noticed. And also think back about, hey, what was really different that I liked about this, right? because like you said, At first it may seem or look like chaotic. But later on, you can learn that there's actually a order to to what we call madness, right?

Justin Wenck: 7:13

Yeah.

Tom Leegstra: 7:15

And I remember seeing a documentary once in India, very different, where they were looking at a delivery service of what I believe if I'm not mistaken lunch. And they were so efficient that they audited by bike and bus and had to be exactly measured, measured, to get to the different people's offices exactly in time. So that made me realize, wow, you know, it may look to the outside, that it is very chaotic. But to the people itself, it could be a queue very efficient and very orderly. That's,

Justin Wenck: 7:45

that's pretty amazing to just consider from what we would say is like, well, this seems like chaos and madness, that if you actually know it, you could get down to the minute granularity, which I don't know, traveling here in the US, it's almost like I can never guarantee down to the minute whether I'm going to show up, even if you're just going from one side of my small suburban town to the other because it's like, oh, man, I got I've missed the light or whatever. And so it's, it's pretty, pretty astonishing. Actually, one of the one of the things I really like, how you've done this book is, it's not just, you know, it may be people have seen a regular travel book or not, or scenes. And, you know, usually it takes you through, you know, well, what are the sites? How do you get there? And, you know, what are the descriptions,

Unknown: 8:31

but this, it's, it's

Justin Wenck: 8:33

more of, like, the emotional journey that you go on through. And so it's, you can practice, like having that experience of like, Oh, my gosh, what is the toilet going to be like, before you actually do it? Although that you do kind of mentioned this with your child that there is no substitute for actually being there. But it does help to do you know, the pregame, I'm sure, right.

Tom Leegstra: 8:56

Yeah, it almost feels like it helps you prepare a little bit, at least to have an idea right as to what you could potentially expect, despite at once you are at the destination itself, right? It's very different to what you had imagined it to be. It's kind of like watching a show on TV about the destination. Right? Do you get your certain ideas and impressions but then we actually get there and being fully immersed in that environment, right? With all the with all the chaos of the day or whatever, it comes up for you during that time, right? Whether it's Hey, maybe I'm tired from a long flight to a somebody is like asking you something on the street and you're like, not in that particular state of frame of mind where, like, not right now, right? I just feel like I just want to have a peace, peaceful moment for myself. But you can't really predict that right? When you're in those environments. The only thing that can help you is maybe anticipate some of those things that could come up right through maybe looking at those shows or reading a good book right or listening to a great podcast about the topic. So at least you're somewhat prepared mentally, that, hey, I could end up in a situation, and what would I potentially do when I do end up in a situation like that? Right? Maybe get more focused and centered?

Justin Wenck: 10:13

Yeah. And, and so often, like most of our fears, when they kind of when we actually start to put words to them, they really start to fall away. And it's just like, Oh, yeah, that's not so bad. Like, but when it's just sort of like that ambiguous emotional feeling of like, Oh, well, there could be people trying to sell me things aggressively. Like, it's just that it's like, I and I don't even like people selling me things here in the US based off of the structure I know. And, but then, like, you know, because I think that's one of your, one of the situations you said, was really challenging, like, you felt a lot of anger, during like a pushy salesperson or the marketer or something. And so sort of, like, get in. Yeah, that was, that, for me has been really challenging. But then it's like, you know, to help to know that like, well, this is what what you can expect. And then it's like, oh, yeah, I guess it wouldn't be that bad. I can just say no, or maybe I do buy something I didn't want to like, in the grand scheme of life, who cares if you wasted 10 bucks on? Or I don't know, like, yeah, you know, and all this stuff. And yeah, like nothing. And so that's, I really do like that about the book that it's sort of like, hey, let's, you know, emotionally get into this trip, don't just like be a bystander, like, get in here, and then actually get out there and do the trip.

Tom Leegstra: 11:30

It's actually fascinating that that's something that you caught on to because sometimes, right? In those moments, when we're at a certain stage of our life, or a certain state of mind, and we go through some of these emotions, right? We don't even realize that we're actually doing it right. I mean, only years later, I look back at some of the photos, I'm thinking, oh, wow, you know, I remember that moment where I remember I got frustrated by that particular incident, just because I felt this person is trying to push me on to something that I didn't want. And at the time, I had no idea to set a proper boundary and say, no, maybe, like with empathy. And Radha, I just got frustrated and angry at the person. Right? So it's, it's kind of almost, maybe going back to your earlier question on being vulnerable, right? It kind of exposes you to yourself, in a way right? To your own emotions to maybe where you still need to grow and learn, rather than maybe it had been in the environment itself, right. I think we evolved to our troubles too, with that realization, at least, I feel I did throughout the years, and reflecting back on it.

Justin Wenck: 12:39

Yeah, and I, you bring up the metaphor of the taking off the mask, you know, so you can kind of really be be yourself. And that's, you know, one of the best ways to really be alive on the travel is to just let go of these things. And and I think one of the great things to learn is that when you're in another country, especially especially is traveling alone, because that is it, nobody really cares one way or the other, they don't care about your mask, and they don't care about you not having the mask, like they just, they're doing their own thing, and they don't care. Whereas like we're so used to surrounding ourselves with people that seem to have a vested interest in, you know, the masks that we wear that if we take it off, it seems that you go somewhere else, and they're doing their thing, and you know, they're happy to help you but happy if you don't care, and just that that, oh, I can be a different way and people will be okay with me is I don't know. It's It's amazing.

Tom Leegstra: 13:37

Yeah, to me, that's fascinating, as well, Justin, because, right, so many times we think that people want something from us, or they want us to be a certain way or behave a certain way, right? Just because I think we've been told that through our upbringing, right, in our in our, in our process or an environment. And I think throughout we we create this, like you said, like the mask, right, we create these different masks or different personas that we put to almost, I guess, protect ourselves because we feel like hey, this person is maybe going to expect this or that or the other. While the reality may be, to your point, right, is that they may not expect anything at all from us, right? They just say, We don't even know you, right, we just want you to show up the way you are showing up right now.

Justin Wenck: 14:28

And the little bit of the flip side of that is depending on what country you go to you, you can become a standout you know, a special I think, you know, like almost like a foreign creature of of interest. Because I know when you went to India, you're like I was you know, probably one of the few six foot two white, white blond guys. And, you know, I am also a white a white dude as well and there's something about you don't know when You're just going around Western cultures that, you know, for the most part, you're a, you're a blank slate, nobody thinks one way or the other, which is, yeah, you know, the bit of the word of the entitlement and stuff related, you know, comes from that when you go to another country, and you're the rarity and there's attention, it could be good or bad, but it really helps to put yourself in the shoes of, you know, other people at home that, you know, might not look like and maybe get judged just because of their appearances. That's been, you know, sometimes it's good. And sometimes it's not, you know, like it was I when I was in Japan, and you know, school girls want to take their picture and practice their English on me. And I was like, it was, it was, quote, unquote, good. But it was so different that I had a lot of like nervousness. And I don't know what other areas have, as that come up for you or being sort of weird or?

Tom Leegstra: 15:48

Yeah, to me that I think that's a really good example. Exactly what in India, right? Because I feel like from my own upbringing, growing up in Amsterdam, we had a lot of different cultures around us all the time. So I would not necessarily stand out, or nobody else would really stand out here. But then, as you said, when I went to India, that first experience, when we went, hey, let's go for a walk outside a hotel, right, let's take the metro let's do as much as local do locals do, and then travel that way, only to realize unexpectedly to be, I guess, the death, the standout for the people that look different, right? And be stared at, I looked at. And at a later point in a trip, people wanted to make pictures with us, which was kind of surprising to me, like, why would anybody want to take a picture with us? I'm just like, a random guy, random white guy, right? And what what's the what's the big deal there? But it does put you in a, like, a bit of an uncomfortable position, because you feel like, like those emotions, right? It's a bit of like, fear, in a sense of, well, I wonder what would happen, right? And you know, people, what, are they going to react? Right? Are they going to do something? I don't really see that anymore today, or don't feel it anymore today, but I can definitely see how that could come up. Definitely, like one of those experiences.

Justin Wenck: 17:10

Yeah. And it's, it's just probably one of the many ways to improve, you know, the feeling of empathy for, you know, people around the world end up end at home. And the there was, there's some point, oh, I kinda want to go to an area of more practicality. Because sometimes, I know, when I first started traveling, like I over planned, because I was just super scared, and all the things and that was what I needed. And now I've gotten a lot more relaxed. Yeah, there's still some some essentials that like, you know, place to stay, you know, having the transportation and then making sure that you know, all the financial stuff, because I, I know, one situation you had was like, you got there and you couldn't use your ATM cards. So like, how does? And it seemed like you got lucky. But how does that experience or like, inform? Well, what am I going to worry about? What am I not going to worry about? I think that could be helpful for some people, because some of that, you know, some stuff, you worry about it there, you know, it's good to have a little worried because it'll make things a lot easier. And then other stuff. Like it's really even if it goes completely haywire, you're still gonna have a fabulous trip.

Tom Leegstra: 18:17

Yeah, that's a that's a that's a fascinating point. Because, right, I think each of us has a different kind of area that they're concerned about. Right?

Justin Wenck: 18:28

That's an important point, too. Yeah, it's knowing yourself, I guess.

Tom Leegstra: 18:33

Yeah. And I feel like to the, the, for me, the more important parts are, like, Hey, I'm having at least an idea of where I'm going to stay, right. It doesn't have to be like everywhere, but maybe having already some places pointed out on your journey that you can say, Hey, you know, I'm leaving a little bit of flexibility in between, but I have a place where I know that that's going to be kind of my base, so to speak. And from there, I can go and explore so that when you do go out and explore and experience like a day, that may be emotionally overwhelming to you that you have a place to go back to right. So to me, that's very helpful. Although I've also heard of people that don't plan anything, right? They don't look anything ahead of time. But for me a place to stay or at least a couple of places to stay having a generic idea of my route and and a base is really helpful. generically speaking, I also find it good to know where and how they move around, right? Like, is this a place where the public transportation is decent enough that we can go and explore that or duty a driver, for example, than in India, right. We had a we had one place to stay. And now we booked a driver was fantastic, by the way. Yeah. sounded like he really enriched our experience quite a bit. His name was Ryan. He was just phenomenal. But from that point, On, we pretty much said, Hey, you know, we trust the locals to know which places to stay from there on right? I've got a book a week round trip through that particular I guess, agency without really seeing any of the places. So we knew the basis day and we had kind of a rough idea about our plan, but had some locals taking care of it. So at least you have a little bit of certainty and a little bit of uncertainty. As opposed to anything else. Yeah, sorry, go ahead.

Justin Wenck: 20:30

And I've noticed in my experience with traveling that very often, when booking once you're there local, you can often get a better experience for a way better price than if you book everything ahead of time. Like sometimes the caveat is like, and this is I want to circle back to because you'd mentioned like traveling like a local versus just being super touristy. Because sometimes the touristy things, they will, you know, a book up or they will be packed or you can't get in whatever, and I'm sure it's gonna be very true. Going forward. So there's some things like, you know, yeah, you do got to plan ahead. You know, be aware, but then other stuff is just like, yeah, the spur of the moment, like it's super easy, and sometimes way less. So I was kind of curious. You know, do you still do you know, the quote unquote, tourist touristy things? Or do you? Are you like a purist of like, Nah, man, I just do what the locals do like it, you know? Or do you like a mix of both?

Tom Leegstra: 21:32

I feel like I do still a mix of both. Because some of the touristy things are touristy things for a reason, right? There's probably like a reason why there's so many people flocking to it. But I do feel that I really want to mix it up with activities that locals would would do. And I love your example where say, sometimes it's just good to book something right there, right. And therefore, I'm also a big fan of not filling up your agenda all the way because otherwise, you take all the spontaneous opportunities that you may come up, right, you may come up by my local tourist office, and that says, hey, we're doing this local trip to do X, Y, and Z is right. And that could take you to new places that are a little off the beaten path. Even though I right now with the internet, I suspect is barely impossible to have anything that's undiscovered. But at least maybe words a little bit a little bit less touristy or less populated way, maybe we could do some local trips. As an example. We did a cooking class in Indonesia, a few years back in Bali, which was just fantastic. Yeah. And then. And also, like an electric bike tour is another example that just took us all the way to the countryside, you speak with some of the locals and you see really the rice fields and how people live. To me, that's just fantastic. Yes, it's also available right on TripAdvisor, and everybody can go and do it. But you definitely notice that most people don't do those kind of activities. I don't know why. But

Justin Wenck: 23:03

I'm so glad you brought that up. Because like, when I started discover, like, you know, doing a class or a group tour, like it was just a game changer, because when I first started traveling, it's like, Yeah, I'd have like, my Lonely Planet or whatever. And I would just be walking around, and I'd have my face in the book. And it's like, and this is where, you know, this Samurai did this thing for this Emperor and but it's like it either, I got to spend twice as much time because I have to read it and look around, or I've just in the book anyway, and I'm missing being right there. Whereas when you have the expert like telling you while you're looking around, it's like it comes to life because you're like seeing and it almost becomes like a movie. And then like even a cooking class. It's there's like a story with the cooking of the history and the nature and things like that. It's just so fun. And then you get to connect with other tourists to is, which is I don't know, I've just found amazing. I don't know if you've had any, like lifelong friends while traveling or may not even lifelong, but just maybe someone that you know, kept in contact and saw him again later through your through your travels that just like I don't even know how I met that guy. But

Tom Leegstra: 24:08

yeah, there's this I wrote about in the book a little bit on my experience and cubot. And going back to the fun and the finances, right? Where I also ended up like not being able to use the ATM and as as unprepared as I usually am when it comes to like planning my trip, or at least partly. That's why I bring my wife along with me these days, because she's better organized. She likes to plan. But yeah, I met this wonderful lady, her name is Amy and she was from Australia. And we ended up at the airport from flying from Mexico to to Cuba. And we got to talk at that time because she was traveling by herself and the time I was going to meet my friend who was already in Cuba and flew in to a different route. And I met her at the airport we got to talk and ended up on Cuba right and we go Talk to her again as we landed, and then I realized I didn't have the money. And she was pretty much like out of the blue without really knowing me only maybe for just a few hours, say, Hey, you know, just Here, take this $50 we may meet again here next week at the same time, because we were scheduled to go out the same day different routes, but same day. And yeah, these kind of experiences to me are like, wow, you know, you barely know somebody. And here they are just kind of trusting you giving you some money, right to go around. And many years later, I ended up in Australia, because one of our good friends, his name is heard. And he lives in Australia. And we ended up meeting, meeting Amy just for like, for lunch just to say hi and see how he was doing and I still stay in contact with her today. And I'm sure there's many other people that I guess don't really jump to mind right now. But I just remember that because I find it just such a fascinating example. While you travel, right, you meet so many wonderful people and travelers that you're like, wow, you know, there's a world is full of good people.

Justin Wenck: 26:10

Yeah, yeah. Like instead of it just been like a big, giant, lonely world that starts to sort of make it smaller. And it's like, wait, I've got I've got people around the world and I got other places and people that I could, you know, go meet up with and yeah, your your story about someone giving you the money. Like I had a similar situation. I was in Thailand, and I had lost my wallet. I like left it on a boat or something like that. And I was like, Where's I lost my wallet, whatever. And some woman I don't know, she could understand my English or but she got the feeling and she she just she handed me like the equivalent of 20 US dollars. And I was like, oh, what that is just so awesome. I think I needed it because I think I needed to be able to like get take the train home so luckily, I you know, I had left you know, some cash and an additional credit card, in my in my safe at the hotel. So I that's one of my pro tips is like, bring bring multiple credit cards bring a lot because US dollars are so easy to convert and spend whatever so far and just about anywhere in the world. So like, always bring like a couple extra$100 in cash and just leave that in your safe so that if you go out and something happens to your pocket money. But the kindness I don't know it's restored my faith in humanity and kinda every time I travel I there's always these little reminders of how good people ultimately are.

Tom Leegstra: 27:32

Yeah, I love that example that I found so true as well, like have, like, definitely have a backup plan. But in case not you definitely learn to see the good in people and to see that there's still so many wonderful people out there that are really ready and willing to help. But don't leave it to chance, right? No, yeah,

Justin Wenck: 27:52

chance chance is gonna happen no matter what. So when there are some things and again, this is like knowing, knowing yourself, you know, and what, what is important to you guys, like Tom, I'm kind of like you and having a place to sleep like indoors is big, but like, I know, my wife is like, she's the mindset we're like, Well, hey, if it fell through, like, you know, there's probably a park or something and you know, whatever the so you kind of mentioned traveling with your wife and she has a little bit different style. I was wondering if maybe you could speak to that maybe some things to think about when when traveling with a partner or a friend versus you know, if you you just you know, go on going solo and doing it yourself.

Tom Leegstra: 28:32

Yeah, to to to Kathy, your story. I'm not sure if I could get my wife to sleep in a park. I think she likes to think she likes her her comforts more. But we did start to take some camping adventures, the most recent one being in Hawaii, I think it was like last year or maybe two years ago by now already. With COVID in between it felt like two or three years have passed. Could have been just one or a few months. But yeah, I definitely feel that traveling with a partner it it kind of bends to me also on the person that you travel with, right? Are they naturally open or more fearful to travel? Right? Are they shown up more organized, more planned? Do they like to work with checklists? My wife, she loves to kind of come with a list and check things off the list. Right? Yeah, whereas I mean, I don't mind any more. I think in the past I was kind of like, the complete opposite where I just didn't want to have any plans whatsoever and just kind of showing up and kind of see what happens and yeah, knowing it would work out okay, but she's actually taught me Sorry, go ahead, Justin. So

Justin Wenck: 29:45

So you had like more travel experience than than her and gotten to a point of relaxation? Is that is that kind of how it was at the time? Sure. Or are you just naturally sort of been a like a more carefree type of personality with most a lot of things.

Tom Leegstra: 30:01

Yeah, I feel like I've been more carefree. But I'm kind of interested in interesting to your point, I wonder if it has to do with maybe previous travel experience already. That may be a good one for me to ponder on a little bit more at some stage and see where that leads me. But I do feel like our personalities are somewhat different when it comes to that she likes to be more organized, prepared planned for things that could go wrong, and I'm gonna have maybe a bit gullible, in a sense, right to be like, Oh, you know what, I think we'll be fine. Nothing will happen. And even if it happens, how it will turn out to be okay. But I think you need a little bit of both. I don't really have any very negative experiences, like traveling with partners or a group of people. Yeah, I feel like maybe having people to be open minded, right, and not being kind of two different maybe from what you expect, because otherwise it may end up being I guess, argument that they have, right? Yeah, on trips, and

Justin Wenck: 31:07

yeah, cuz it and as much as you can know, before you go, so maybe you came in, say no to the the trip, but sometimes you don't know until you find out but you really do get to really know a person on on a trip like so sometimes it can be very much make or break, or it just makes it makes relationship even better. Because you get to know, this was a there was like an interesting situation when I was traveling to Barcelona, I was traveling solo, but I went on a tour. And I ended up I'll come back to this question after I finished this story about you know, what, what is your national identity because I've, that's something I started discovering through through travel was, you know, my met some American, some American girls on on a tour and now like, we were hanging out and then cut to dinner time, and you know, Barcelona, the land of like topless and like you're in any European city, and they basically you can always find like the best of any, like European food. So like, you know, there could have been some good French cuisine or, you know, some some really good you know, pizza or, you know, some Italian pasta or something. And I was like, Yeah, well, you know, you guys, you ladies want to go get some dinner? And they're like, yeah, we we think we, we want to go get some some Irish food. And I was like, what, right? Yeah, you know, we went last night, it was really good. It's like, Okay, what, what were and what turned out one of the girls, she she was been living abroad in Ireland. So it's like, she went to Ireland, and then went from Ireland to go visit Spain, and just wanted to eat more Irish food. And I was like, I'm, I'm out like, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna get some topics. So I was like, you would not be good travel partners for me in any food. Was that cool? Oh, yeah. But as a curious, you know, cuz, you know, you're, you're born in the Netherlands and I know, you've lived in the us a while. And a, I know, when I first started traveling, that's when I realized, like, Oh, I have I have Americanness in me that, you know, because having been most spend most of my life, you know, up until I was about, you know, mid 20s I was like, what American that's not a culture and identity, you know, because it's, you know, we get so into like, Yeah, well, especially now, you know, the different politicals this and, you know, team that and, but then when I went to other countries, I was like, Oh, yeah, there, you know, I would ran into any American and they're just be like, a more of an easy bond. It was just like, Oh, this is interesting. And I feel like as I've traveled more, I've I've shed that identity more and more that it's like I feel more of a global citizen. Now just kind of curious you know, having you know, been born in another country lived in this country and traveled a lot, what sort of may have been the identity aspect for you, your your journey on that.

Tom Leegstra: 33:56

I'm kind of smiling on you and listening to your story because I can, I can still relate to that. Not being like American, of course, but even though I could probably classify after I've been here for almost 10 years as American by now but but more of being a global citizen, I really feel that really, I would have first re identify would still be in Dutch even though it would be traveling in Europe quite a bit. And also, maybe international are like outside of Europe. But I feel like the more you one travels and also be living abroad, right? And you change how you look at things. I even changed. When I come back to the Netherlands. I look at things very differently now than I did when I was living there. Right. I see. I guess both the good me quotation marks and the bat. And yeah, I feel like it's some it almost feels like you don't resonate with certain things anymore, but you resonate with new things right. And similarly When you go to maybe other countries where, hey, I don't really know, like, it's almost like you don't really know where you belong anymore at some point, right? Like, yeah, blah, blah on to this world, but nothing in that a specific country or city, or state or anything like that, right?

Justin Wenck: 35:20

Yeah. And experience. Yeah. And some sometimes there can be like a little bit of sadness, because it's like, how do I not belong? But then there's also the this. I don't know, to me, it's like almost a sense of cultivating true freedom because it's like, any, you can try anything, do anything and figure out what you truly want out of everything possible. Sometimes, I don't know. I've been noticing so much that often people think they're free because they get to do what they like and what they don't like. But they don't even know why they like what they like or don't and it's usually it's just like, you just are celebrating getting to be in your habit and it's like our habits our waterways, the lowest form of us, like you, you do a lot of coaching and and you know that, like that's, that's, that's like living like a lizard. It's like, yeah, I'm free to live like a lizard, but it's like, you're a human being, like, use that prefrontal cortex man. And like,

Unknown: 36:10

question.

Tom Leegstra: 36:14

It actually is funny, because I read that post that you had made on on habits and i and i really resonated with me as well, because I remember I was living like that as well, many years ago. And I think that that's kind of part of the reason why I went into coaching and doing hypnotherapy and things of that nature because I felt almost like stuck in second and feeling like Who am I really right, like, and I remember one of the turning points for me was as I was in the in, like the corporate office, but I was looking outside the window when I saw people coming in and out right driving in a car is like holy cow. Is this really what life is all about? Like day in day out the same routine? Then you restart a question that right like I say, restarted, question your those habits, but you start to question your own habits and working What do you think about are these habits working for me? Or are they really like other people's habits, society, cultural habits of habits of upbringing, right, that have been ingrained, ingrained in us for the longest period of time. I think that's why I love travel, because it forces you to get out of those habits, right, your natural routines, so to speak, and end up seeing different people's habits. And the almost XP almost, again exposed to yourself at that point, right? Like, wow, you know, I didn't know I was doing this, or I was so caught up in believing that this was the right way to live. And then you realize, hey, there's so many different ways to live.

Justin Wenck: 37:42

Yeah, like one of the tidbits in from your book, when you first get to NDA is the plane lands. There's they're spraying all this disinfectant chemical, and I had that I think it was like, either in the Philippines or something. It's like, what are they poisoning? They're gassing you know, and it's what I was like, if you were at your home country, you would get up and you would like, probably try to storm storm the plane to get out and you whatever. But like, when you're in, it's like this, the entitlement goes and you just sit and you observe. And there's because you're like, I am not where I'm supposed I'm not in my hometown. Like, apparently everyone's okay with this. Why am I not okay with this? And, and then, you know, sometimes you get informed, but then other times, it's just by experiencing like that, oh, man, that I can't control everything around me.

Tom Leegstra: 38:30

Yeah, it made me to going back to what you said earlier, like, it almost becomes freeing in a way, right? Because, like, so much of the habits or things that we do is, I guess, to control our environment, or I guess the illusion of control is probably the better word because I feel at the end of the day, you really don't have much control over your environment, even though we may believe we do. Right.

Justin Wenck: 38:53

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a little bit painful, but I don't know, I'm kind of reminded of like a bird hatching from from an egg. It's like, you can stay in that egg. But at some point, it's going to it's going to be painful, whether you stay or whether you crack it open, because you're growing in some way. And so I don't know I'm more and more I'm for the like, well, let's go through the pain of cracking this egg open so that we can get on to the next the next stage and enjoy the big brighter world because I don't know it's just there's there's always more and more. And maybe I'll, I'll leave with this final question of kind of what's what's what's next for Tom? Like, what the what's what's what's going on, because the book just got released. I was at a couple of weeks ago. I know it's number one on several of the lists and Amazon so what's, what's next, where are we going?

Tom Leegstra: 39:44

Yeah, there's so many things spinning through my mind right now, at least for the last few weeks, as I kind of started writing book number two already. A few weeks back I started with the with a chapter on Costa Rica because my wife is from Costa Rica. So I really want to It's one of also like one of the most beautiful countries in the world to visit, there's just so much to see and so much to learn and to share from those experiences. So I started writing that. So hopefully, fingers crossed, I get book number two out this year. Nice. And additionally, I want to keep traveling to so I'm kind of thinking about my next trips, there's a lot of countries on the list, I do want to visit you, like, go back to Europe and visit my, my mom and my sister and my good friends that still live there, too. It's been this year, it's gonna be like three years. Last when we were planning to go last year, but it was like right at the start a COVID. So we didn't make it. But this year, hopefully, most of the restrictions will be lifted, so we can visit. And then additionally, like Africa is high in the list. And so us South America, specifically Peru has been on our list for the longest period of time and see Machu Picchu and do the Inca Trail, it just looked very fascinating. And in Africa, obviously, because of the beautiful country to wildlife, the people, right, it is so many beautiful places still to visit. So that's really what's, what's next, travel more or to travel as much as I can and write about it and share and ultimately inspire hopefully other people to also get out of their comfort zone and do some traveling and see the world. The world has so much to offer. That well said

Justin Wenck: 41:31

like, you know, I definitely encourage people go, go pick up the book, it's like, just just go get it. It's ridiculously priced on on Amazon the transformative power of travel by Tom Lee extra, you can also go to his website, Tom Lee stra at LEG s t r a.com. He's got a offering of a free overview of how to travel in challenging times. You know, so you can check that out. And then, you know, look forward to it. So, you go over India, you go over Cuba, and you go over, you go over France, but you also have like so many tips that like you know, for just travel in general. So even if those aren't your you know, next step, like you know, just for like the resources of you know, how to worry about money, you know, how to finding places, and then just sort of the emotionally taking you through, so that if you've never traveled before or even if you have but like you maybe you've only traveled to like the state over or something like that. So just just just get it I would say and you know, for me, my websites Justin Wenck calm. So there, you can sign up for updates on the podcast and connect with me on social media. I finally have a email address for this podcast if you want to email me any questions his podcast at Justin Wenck calm. So once again, I want to thank Tom for being on the show. Thanks so much.

Tom Leegstra: 42:54

Thanks for having me, Justin. It was pleasure being here. I love your podcast. Please keep it up. It's wonderful.

Justin Wenck: 43:01

Fantastic. Alright everyone,

Unknown: 43:03

until next time, have

Justin Wenck: 43:04

a good day. Bye.