Engineering Emotions and Energy with Justin Wenck, Ph.D.

Navigating Your Future of Work with Natalia Bielczyk, PhD

• Justin Wenck • Season 1 • Episode 177

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Can you survive or even thrive in this fast-paced ever-evolving job market?

In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Natalia Bielczyk, a computational neuroscientist turned career and business strategist. We dive deep into the future of work amidst rapid technological changes like AI and Web 3.0. Dr. Bielczyk shares her unique insights on navigating the evolving job market, emphasizing the importance of self-discovery, adaptability, and continuous learning.

We discuss how to build value and leverage your strengths in these dynamic times, and how social and professional networks can play a crucial role in your career development. Dr. Bielczyk also introduces her ontology of value test, a tool designed to help individuals find their optimal work environments and strategies for success.

Key Takeaways:

  • Understanding the impact of AI and Web 3.0 on the job market.
  • The importance of self-discovery and adaptability in career development.
  • Strategies for building value and leveraging your strengths.
  • The role of social and professional networks in career success.

Dr. Natalia Bielczyk is a bootstrapping solopreneur, speaker, author, podcaster, and blogger. Her doctorate in Computational Neuroscience is from the Donders Institute for Brain, Cognition, and Behavior, in the Netherlands. In 2019, she founded Ontology of Value®  an R&D, EdTech, and adult education company researching and predicting the job market evolution. She developed the flagship project:  Ontology of Value® Test, which allows professionals and students to determine their natural way of creating value in the job market, and find the working environment where they fit best given their natural working style, personality, and values. The output from this test is a cheat sheet showing participants where they have a competitive advantage in the job market.

Connect with Natalia:
https://ontologyofvalue.com/
https://nataliabielczyk.com/
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Justin Wenck:

How does an individual navigates to find like their their best environment their best way at a given time, the

Unknown:

idea is to have the self actualization to reflect on yourself to try different strategies. And sometimes you just have to be alone, you have to create the life in which you increase the chance of inflection points happening around

Justin Wenck:

you, we're going through a big change. But this is actually nothing new, what's new is what's changing. But it sounds like throughout human history, there have been changes and they are happening faster and faster. self discovery

Unknown:

is active effort, it's you have to spend a substantial amount of time just observing yourself, upgrade your sub navigation skills, your skills allow you to meet more interesting people. And these people allow you to build more skills and get more opportunities.

Justin Wenck:

Are you ready to live a life with enough time, money and energy? have relationships and connections that delight you? Are you ready for the extraordinary life, you know, you've been missing? If so, then this is the place for you. I'm a best selling author, coach, consultant, and speaker who's worked in technology for over two decades. I'm a leader at transforming people and organizations from operating in fear, obligation and guilt to running off joy, ease and love. It's time for engineering emotions and energy with me, Justin Wenck, PhD. All right, today, we are talking about your future of work, what is work going to be like for you in the future with all the changes going on with with AI, with, you know, web three, there's so many technologies, and you keep hearing all about all these layoffs and the changing job landscape. And I think we all kind of know, it's not going to be how it was. And I think of like, you know, to me how it was there's this movie from 1989 called office space Natali. I don't know if you ever saw it or probably heard about it, because it's, it's kind of a big part of like subculture of like the tech space in the in the US. But it's basically, yeah. And I feel like I live that life or as it was in cubicles. And it's like, you're supposed to be there, you know, Monday through Friday, eight to five. And if there's a big project where you maybe you got to go in on weekends, or ask other people to come in on weekends, and it's almost about us putting on the show as much about actually doing any work. And I I don't think that's actually the way it is. Now, where it doesn't have to be and I think in the future is probably I think there's still going to be some people that want to work that way. And let them work that way. But not everybody has to do everything are not all supposed to be the same anymore. And I think this AI and these other technologies are disrupting it. And I don't know, what's your thoughts on how it's been? And where do you see it going?

Unknown:

Thank you so much, Justin for for invitation to your podcast. Yeah, actually, we we are living us like us Chinese like to like to curse, we are living in interesting times. So indeed, we have we are going through a major, major socio economical shift right now. And I, to my knowledge, it just start has started. So just brace yourself for quite a ride, because the next decade might be really interesting in that sense. And so what we observe is that there is a superposition on my of multiple effects that some of them are just natural development of, of the economy and technology that actually influences our lives, including our professional lives. And some other influences are these big, these black swan events, as Nassim Taleb likes to call them. And these are these unprecedented global events that cannot really be predicted or timed, such as the COVID 19 pandemic, or, or the premiere of tangibility, that hype have a major role of the labor labor market worldwide. So that makes the dynamic of the job market very unpredictable. And there are only a few of a few facts, we can reliably guess we have, we can have an educated guess of where the job market will be probably going to work. And many, many variables are just unpredictable. And so what I do in my practice, so maybe let me introduce myself

Justin Wenck:

early on. I can I can introduce you then you could you could add on. But yeah, I think one of the cool things I think I'm picking up so far from what you said is that like we're going through a big change, but this is actually nothing new. What's new is what's changing, but it sounds like throughout human history, there have been changes and perhaps yeah Maybe we'll get into like they are happening faster and faster. But, you know, I was just thinking like 50 years ago, like, the average worker didn't use a computer. And now the average worker uses a computer or at least has a computing device in their pocket, even if they're doing something without computers. But I do want to welcome to the show, Dr. Natalia BL chick. She's a computational neuroscientist turned career and business strategist. She helps individuals and teams navigate, build value and subvert all the expectations in these wild and wacky times of artificial intelligence or AI. She's a bootstrapping solopreneur. Now. So you work a lot in the startup field and the bear anywhere else, you would just be an entrepreneur. Right?

Unknown:

Right. Right, right. Yeah.

Justin Wenck:

But in the Bay Area, startup scene, this ends up being like, there are there's all these funding things I just that made me smile. But you're also a speaker, you're an author, you've got several books available on your website, a podcaster, blogger. You're doctorates in computational neuroscience, from the Donders Institute for Brain cognition behaviors in the Netherlands, you're currently joining us from Poland where you grew up. And in 2018, you founded ontology of value, which is an r&d edtech, and adult education company that's researching and predicting job market evolution, your team develops tools, practices, that help professionals build their value using their potential and helps them navigate this continuously evolving and challenging job market and craft the career of their dreams. And you also help businesses to create healthy happy teams and the types of AI and if anybody wants to, you know, know more they can go to ontology a value.com. Is there anything else that you definitely want to make sure that I don't miss? Because I did. You had what is like, you know, the, the class, the classic academic bio, which is like, which is like an essay, and

Unknown:

well, yeah, thank you so much, Justin, for this amazing introduction. Indeed, it's been a, it's been quite a story, or indeed, I've my first love was neuroscience. And then I, I did a break up in with academic system. So I came to, to neuroscience for science. And I laugh because of the, of the system that I think in many ways is, in many ways is dysfunctional. And yeah, my passion was always people. But like, for the first 10 plus years of my career, I really thought that the way the best way of studying a human is going, like digging as deep as possible into human brain, then for many reasons, it turned out that maybe this is not the optimal way. And maybe I could just go more into behavioral science and the economy and just look at the group behavior and crowd behavior as well. And just just try to analyze how, yeah, how people, set goals, what motivates them, how they develop, like life satisfaction. And what what my focus is now is, is, is the job satisfaction in precisely so I really, I still study humans, but more from the outside of their brains rather than inside, so that that orientation didn't really change. But it was a natural progression. I basically, after my PhD, I started first trying to solve my own problem, which was, well, where do I find a job as an expert in the Netherlands without knowing Dutch, and then it turned out that my PhD doesn't give me as much advantage as I initially thought, in the local job market. So I basically started from solving my own problem, then it turned out that, well, other PhDs in STEM sciences have similar problems. So I extrapolated and started helping my friends. And then I noticed that actually, all knowledge workers today suffer from uncertainty in the job market and the Job. Job market is so dynamic, it's really hard to follow. So I extrapolated further, and then once GPT came out, it turned out that well, the job market itself is just moving so fast. And there are so many like fascinating phenomenons, like these algorithms, just all of a sudden interacting with the labor market. With on the on the one hand, it's like it's a fascinating subjects for studies. But on the other hand, what what are the implications and how can we make sure that we can reliably like stay safe in the job market and just develop ourselves without constantly worrying about tomorrow? So from just a little problem, like finding your next job, it actually is like it escalated quickly into trying to predict the global dynamic of the globe. of the labor market. So that's my story. And yeah, so basically, maybe we could just talk a little bit about that, because I know that your interest is helping your, your listeners development so themselves. And maybe I could just tell you a little bit about some of the main points that I would like to add some pieces of advice that I'd like to give your viewers and your listeners in terms of professional development in 2024. In terms of generative AI, yeah.

Justin Wenck:

Yeah, cuz I, because Natalia, I got a chance to see her speak at an event A few weeks ago here in San Francisco. Before she, you know, went went back to, to to Europe. And the topic, the topic that she spoke on was the future of work. And by far the best, the best talk inside is like, Oh, this is actually a take that's actually zooming out, not just like, Okay, let me try to couch up product I'm trying to sell. Although, you know, you do have great products that you also do sell, but it was there was like there was actually an amazing vision of what is what is the future going to be like, because I think it was one of those like, it was I definitely agree with what the end result is, which is we're moving voraciously going towards humans don't need to do anything, there ends up being like, we don't need to do anything. Because robots AI whatever could do any things that we previously need to so what is the world? What is work going to be like? And then you have this? This? You know, I think it was seven steps of like, what the path is? Right? And so yeah, if you can maybe like, you know, share a little bit of like, what that is what that is, and then the tips, I think it's gonna be great. And then yeah, and then we'll also kind of get into, yeah, how does an individual navigate because you also have this cool thing called the ontology a value test that I took that? I don't know, if you developed and I didn't find it, like pretty facts. I've done a lot of these things. mTBI. And I don't know, there's so many of these available. And I did find this to be like a uniquely fun, interesting, but adding new perspective into myself, and then possible environments that I hadn't seen quite before. And it was it all of these tests, I find there's always a little bit of like, oh, yeah, like, of course, and then like, oh, wait, oh, that makes sense. Like, it's a little bit of like both course, and then a little bit of like, ah, aha, which is always fun. So, yeah. Yes, aha. So, a take us through sort of how you see what it's what what it could be like how we get to that either dystopian or utopian. Humans don't need to do anything anymore. Right,

Unknown:

actually. So to start with, you know, there was a debate for a long time whether we are going more toward the George Orwell's vision of the world like 1984. So, tyranny and the world dominated by fear and, and some global dominance of one one,

Justin Wenck:

surveillance everywhere you go, yeah, yeah. Or

Unknown:

maybe the Huxley Huxley vision of the brave new world where we are kind of plugged into sources of pleasure. And, and I think we can now answer this question that actually, we're all becoming dopamine, dopamine addicts. And the world is like, at this moment is the labor market is quite hectic, but the productivity that results from Ai revolution is actually growing exponentially. And we can see this in the number of patents in AI domain, growing exponentially over the past few years. And also, Moore's law is still in place. So the computational power is constantly doubling every two years. Plus we now have software writing new software. So all this actually leads to exponential dynamic in how much we can actually produce how much new science how much, how much new data, how much new content, how much new analysis and solving problem solving. So Well, at this moment, we still have many problems in global scale that we need to solve we still have hunger in the world, we still have climate change problem, we still have so many different problems we have to solve but but mathematically like human needs don't grow as far as computational power and, and productivity in terms of AI. So we still have many needs as a humanity to fulfill, but there will be some point in time in the future where The Productivity actually out outgrows the needs by human workers. So we will have,

Justin Wenck:

yeah. And I think you might even be able to argue that that that could be now it's just sort of a how is all of it distributed? Right? Because I think there is like, it's, there's more than enough food to feed everybody every single day. It's just not distributed in a way that, you know, it's like, you know, where you and I, I live, it's like, they throw out like, as much food as they sell. And then in other places, it's like, oh, man, if Oh, it's Tuesday, I get to eat, I actually get to eat today. Right?

Unknown:

Yeah. Right. Yes, that's absolutely, that's the redistribution problem is a huge one. And I think it will only become bigger, because AI is also as every new technologies as a factor that the farther stratifies the society, right, whoever already has access to internet to computational power to resources to people, to employees, then is building even faster. And with AI, and whoever is behind whoever is uneducated, like doesn't have, like, etc, then falls behind even farther. So, absolutely eyes on me, actually making the capitalism even more aggressive than it has ever been before. So we will need some means of redistribution, that's also a very good point. So my predictions is that will eventually the like, that for the next 1015 years to market might be, might be quite, quite turbulent. So it's always been the case that the problems to solve and the, like the distribution of professions, and the demand for different types of professionals was always changing with time. But I think, for the next decade or two decades, the demand will be changing faster than ever. So some professions will be eventually wiped from the market, some professions will be created, and this dynamic is just getting to be a bit faster than before. And then eventually, at some point, we'll have such a such a high productivity, then probably, like we won't necessarily need everyone in the like productive and productive age to be the active workforce. So we will need at that point, we will need to have a redistribution means. And it's actually commonly known as universal basic income idea. So an idea that you can, you can have a way of distributing resources so that you eliminate this existential fear of being broke, being homeless. So that there's, there's the sweet, sweet spot where you provide enough resources so that everyone feels they can peacefully meet ants and live modest life, but they still have certain amount of motivation to upgrade their life, right. So you can leave Modus ly. But if you want to have a Rolls Royce in your garage, if you want to have vacation in Thailand, and you have to produce something, right, so there should be a sweet spot where, like you have a system that still promotes innovations to promote contribution effort, like helping others, but at the same time, it eliminates this problem that stratification in the society and aggressive capitalism create. So yeah, my prediction is that it will happen at some point, probably within like, two decades, horizon. And they're already very, like reputable outlets like open AI that actually launch simulations and studies over UBI. And it's some of these results are promising. And I think at one point, it might actually come to fruition. But, but doesn't change the fact that for the next 1015 20 years, the best you can do for yourself as a professional is to upgrade yourself navigation skills, and make sure that your decision making in the job market is like as well informed as possible, that you have good ways of making decisions. And also that you don't think about your career in terms of algorithms. So you don't plan 20 years ahead, but rather, you make you use heuristics. So you just go toward the gradient of what are your natural strengths and how to find positions and professions that utilize those natural strengths, and how to systematically build a portfolio of skills and At the same time, social capital, so a portfolio of good contacts, friendships, some other business relations, so that these two actually leverage on each other. So your skills allow you to meet more interesting people. And these people allow you to build more skills and get more opportunities. So these two is like a capital that you have to keep on building in a systematic way. So this is something I also help people with, too, first of all, to find a competitive advantage in the job market. So find these natural preferences for what types of positions and which types of organizations they might naturally fit best, and how to match that with their heart skills, and how to find that sweet spot in the job market where they naturally create the most value given who they are, and what hard skills they have in their hand. So and actually, this approach that I'm using, is somewhat, also inspired by dow isn't like this Chinese ancient way of thought, like, school of thought. So, like Tao is, I really loved her, like their lifestyle, because they, they, they, they're the the essence of this lifestyle is to find finding balance. So trying to and trying to find competitive advantages. So instead of, instead of rowing, try to try to try to find the right wind and sail, right. So first, define what your goal is. So where do you want to get and then find the right weight for the wind, or just find the way to, to get help to getting there without using your muscles, right. So the same, the same, the same, I would say, relates to the job market. So you have to. So it's always a match between the two, you are like us you as a as an individual, you're on the one side of the equation. And the job market is on the other side of the equation, to find the right match, at every every given point, you have to perfectly know yourself, or at least as well as possible. That's why self discovery is so important in the like self navigation process. And I know that you spent a lot of effort right on your self discovery. So that's great. But the second part of the equation is the job market itself. So updating your knowledge about what the new trends are, what the new opportunities are, and also interacting with others, and building up building networks in all in all scale. So individual deep relations with single individuals, like a global network for social media, but also these mesoscale networks through, for instance, through online communities, like small groups of people who have similar interests, and interact online. And I think a Bay Area is really good, good for that. There are a lot of these little communities that closely collaborate and interact and help each other. So that's what I think one of the main success factors, why why innovators actually progress so fast in the Bay Area. So yeah, this is a strategic game at this point. It's a bit like playing chess in the fog and on indefinite chessboard. So you have to make moves, you have to like put your fingers in the right positions to support each other. But you don't even see where the end of the chessboard is. And you don't know what happens next, because it's like your your vision is blurred. So it's really, it's really an on the one hand difficult, on the other hand, fascinating, I think. And my observation is, with certain, like, what do you have to focus on is the way of making decisions because what I see that most people make or have problems with is that they try to, they think of their career building out as a series of few smart decisions over a lifetime. So

Justin Wenck:

let them win. Right? Right,

Unknown:

exactly. So they think, well, I made a mistake. I didn't choose the right undergrad studies. I didn't choose the right major. If I if I did choose that major over like the major I just graduated from I would have a better start i That was a mistake. Or they think, well, you won't do it. You just have to score the right first job. Like if you get to one of the top companies like McKinsey or Google then you're set for a lifetime. So it's just a matter of like getting lucky once and just getting to the right place at the right time. And then everything's fine, but it's not like that. and career development happens moment to moment, day to day. And it's just like integration integral of everything, like every single day of your life to put together. So it just the compound effect of having good ways of decision making daily life sums up to great achievements. So for instance, like very simple example, you might choose to, to watch a movie on Netflix just by yourself, or you could choose to invite your colleagues and was together but a simple difference. But the difference is that you can make bonds. And it's often the case that the best projects actually get conceptualized over a beer by by movie, or movie night or barbecue. In a group, instead of just sitting alone and just this is obviously this is a trivial example, but it's just

Justin Wenck:

played the contrary thing that like, depending it could be that the theory alone might be the best because it's like, well, if I was hosting the event, I would be so focused on the other people I might not get, like some very important message, you know, the that I would get from the movie if I was there by myself and totally focused and not distracted by how are my guests doing? So I think this comes down to a little bit like it's sort of like it, there is no like, one right answer. And every time situation, whatever, that it's always do this and it can really just be like, it depends on like, what's, what's the goal? Like he said this earlier, like, well, what's, what is it you're trying to do? And I think so many people don't even actually know what they're trying to do. They're trying to do what somebody told them they're supposed to do and

Unknown:

yeah, right, right. I absolutely I agree with you. It's uh, but the, the idea is to have this self actualization to reflect on yourself and to, to try different strategies. And absolutely, I understand sometimes you just have to be alone, sometimes. Sometimes you have to have a lazy day also to rest from everything. Absolutely. So. But But, but the idea is that, like, you have to create the life in which you can you increase the chance of inflection points happening around you. And then there are multiple ways of doing that. And this is, this is this is just, and using, like developing intuitive mind, just opening your yourself to other people just, and also like, learning a little bit every day, like 20 minutes of learning, but every day, it just makes a huge difference over a period of time. So it's not about like, you know, sitting like for a month straight trying to learn quantum mechanics, just because you all of a sudden need something like really, like really fancy skill for your next job is just about the heartbeat of learning something new every day. And it's just, it's confirmed effect over time.

Justin Wenck:

Because I'd be curious your thoughts on the benefits of having a PhD because I felt like when I got my that's like, what I actually researched, all the stuff I learned was pretty close to worthless. But what the most important thing was that I learned how to learn. And I and it's like, oh, I noticed that like, oh, I can learn something, pick it up and make something of value out of almost anything way better, faster than people who hadn't gone through what I had. No, it's like, Ah, okay, that's what the six year was.

Unknown:

Absolutely, I agree with you. I also think that work ethic is. And when I work with PhDs, I always tell them that work ethic is their biggest asset from a PhD because everything else is contextual. You just let's say you do a PhD in neuroscience and you would like to swap to another discipline then your heart knowledge in your like domain knowledge in neuroscience is becoming less relevant, but what you like the systematic way of approaching problems and being also patient and independent and just just decomposing problems into smaller pieces, and then going step by step and being patient, the delayed gratification, and that's, you know, the, I mean, the PhD is almost like Olympic Games, it's like four four years marathon for that one medal, and you have to have, it's almost like you have an athlete's ethic right to to get there. So, this is this will stay with you for a lifetime. Absolutely. And that's also why soft skills are so, so important. And I also like I have so I have contractors, I don't have full full time employees but I also see like that work ethic is actually so much more important than skills are the beginning of a collaboration. Because if I see that someone can learn, and is focused and motivated, I mean, this sounds trivial, but it indeed, like, eventually the effects will be better than someone who starts off with a really high skill level, but it's just, like, unreliable or, or just not interested in the topic. So, absolutely. And what else? So yeah, well, maybe we could talk a bit about the test and your result? Yeah.

Justin Wenck:

Because it's kind of go to like, well, what's what is, how does an individual navigate to find like, their, their best environment their best way at a given time? And so yeah, natality is, you know, ontology of value has this has this test that allows you to kind of get an idea of, you know, yourself, and maybe you know, what types of things are best for you? And what's the kind of best environment? And it was very, I don't know, is, so you can go to, you know, ontology of value.com, to be able to find this, it's totally worth it. Like, it's not even like that, that expensive. And I think, you know, it even works for teams and things. But, yeah, I thought so I sent my results to Natalia. And I don't know, it was it's funny when I was like taking the test. Yeah, I was kind of like reading the questions. And all the times, I'm like, I'm like, I think I would do like a fifth thing. Like there, it was always there as far as like for it for possible responses. And then I get what my number one attribute is, and its creator. And I'm like, oh, okay, I'm a creator, I'm wanting to create new possibilities, even on this test. So that was kind of like an aha. And then like, yeah, so what are any of your texts from seeing may just a quick because I know you gotta go here in like, you know, a few minutes. So,

Unknown:

right? Yeah, so just a few words about the test. Like we developed it during the pandemic. And it was indeed to as a response to this lack of tools that look at the Career Development from a bit different angle, because a lot of personality test out there. But what I specifically was missing was a test that would basically give you some overview of the possible work environments where you might potentially fit in. So especially for for people who are just starting their careers, or they're just leaving academia or they spend their whole professional lives in just one career. And now they're thinking of a change. The job market is a bit of an abyss. Like it's, it's a it's a dark forest. Like they don't know, there's so many different directions to go. And what's a forest?

Justin Wenck:

It's mountains, it's a desert, it's, yeah, it's, it's all the things from the Shire to Mordor and everything.

Unknown:

Yeah, like, right. So there is not enough life to try everything on your own skin. So I was I was thinking of creating a proxy, some tool that would just give you an educated guess, on where, with your natural working style, with your personality, with your values, and the way of solving problems and also the way of bonding with people, where would you possibly fit best. And so we did studies on professionals, like knowledge workers from 17 countries over the pandemic, and we develop norms we developed, like qualitative measures to evaluate your fit to different environments. And so I think what's really interesting about the stress is that it does not only show your personal ranking of the most appropriate working environments for you, but also compares you to Poppy populations of payoffs participants we had in the study, so you can read that, let's say you're more entrepreneurial than 75% of participants, or you're more corporate than 90%, that gives you some cheat sheet to tell you where your competitive advantage in the job market might be. So this is a quantitative result, which is really helpful for many people. So in your case, freelancing and entrepreneurship came up on top. So how do you feel about that results?

Justin Wenck:

It's like, it makes a lot of sense based on like, how I how I currently operate and how even when I was at a full time corporate job, how I sort of I, I was effectively like a bit of a freelancer where my you know, my supervisor was like, I can put Justin and like the weird projects that like nobody can figure out because you can adapt and you can come with things and kind of go in and out and not have one set thing for the next two years and but then it's also like, I'm like, I gotta work on like my business acumen and things like that to actually He's, like, do it in a, you know, outside of a corporate paycheck context. So it's, it's very like eye opening like, okay, right place. But then, like you said, it's like the little incremental things to learn of like, okay, so I'm in the right area. And now I just need to kind of like start, you know, building even more than that, I would say so. So

Unknown:

just a general, a general, like piece of advice for whoever's listening, just whichever choose, whichever tools you choose, it's all good. Just, you have to, you have to like it's self discovery, it's active effort, it's you have to spend a substantial amount of time just observing yourself. And you could use aptitude tests for that you could use 360 degree interview, just interview your friends, interview your colleagues, ask them, What am I strung out? And they might surprise you with their answers. But in any way, you could just also do journaling and just just put your observations, self observations there, and then reflect on what's your favorite, you know, what, when do you have flow state, what's your favorite activities that are the most joyful, and then just, basically, it's a process and you but you have to go through that process to find that, that niche, that sweet spot in the drug market that is optimal for you. And the rest is learning about opportunity. So you could also you could make use of professional advice, you could also do it by yourself, it's fine. It's just, it's, it's a bit like taking care of your health. It's a process and a little bit of effort. I wouldn't say every single day, but every single week, on behalf of your like long term professional success is just definitely worth it. It's almost like a gym, but the gym for your brain. And yeah, I mean, you know, some of my predictions for the job market might seem a bit Cassandra ik it's bitter bittersweet, but because yeah, there will be turmoil. But I think, eventually, like in the grand scheme of things will be all but better off as a humanity will be more better off because this is like unprecedented opportunity to us in terms of like productivity and innovation. So in the grand scheme, or a scheme of things in the long term, we will all be better off. And the only problem I see in the long term is that now we are leaving in the economy of productivity, I think we'll eventually have to switch to an economy of motivation. Because once we have all the resources, then why do we leave? Right? Why do we jump out of bed every single morning? So I think in 20 years, now we have, you know, we all try to be more productive and more competitive in the job market. I think in 20 years, we'll be asking ourselves how to be more motivated to live live. But, but this is a yet another problem for yet another time, right? Like one problem at a time. So at this at this stage, I wish I wish you all to have really good. I mean, to get self confident, you have to work on yourself. But I wish you inspiration to do that. I wish you had good friends who inspire you who who encourage you to do that effort and help you as well. And everything will be fine in a long, long term. So I think technology Yeah, technology always has a dark side. Because again, like it's

Justin Wenck:

it's like any tool. It's all how you use it. Yeah. Yeah. It can. It can make a meal. And but it can also, you know, do some not so great things. Right.

Unknown:

Right. Right. So, yeah, technology has that property. And it has a tendency to also stratify the society and just like create inequality. So there's definitely, like pros and cons. But, but I think eventually, I just want to finish this conversation on a good note. It's, I think, we'll all actually grow from this and it'd be better off it just that for the foreseeable future. It's really important to spend some time and attention on your professional developments strategize. Find inspiring friends who are also willing to develop themselves help each other. Keep your eyes open for opportunities. Observe yourself. And yeah, and all will be fine. I'm really, I'm sure. Interesting times. I mean, obviously, like there will be chaotic But Don't Don't worry, as long as you are open to learning every day, you'll be you'll be great. Doing great. Yeah,

Justin Wenck:

I love it, I guess I think, yeah, overall, everything is gonna work out great. And even though many people might be going through some really, really challenging turmoil, not everybody has to go through it. And so I think on a personal level, we can make it easier by like doing things like you said, like learning about ourselves getting support. And so yeah, so that's, that's like what I like to do, and that's what Natalia likes to do. And so say if you want to learn more about you know, Natalia is ontology value, test, good ontology value.com. She does, you know, some some ebooks there, they're available. Some are also even included when you get the test like just delivers a ridiculous amount of value. And if you want to get to know a little bit more about Natalia personally, she has her personal journey documented that Natalia belcheck.com, so that I read one of your blog articles, you know, very, very fascinating. So if you get a chance to see Natalia speak somewhere in the world, I'd say definitely go through it. It's gonna be great. So thanks so much for being on the show. I think it's gotta go soon. So appreciate it. And thanks, all of you for watching and listening and have a good day. Thanks for tuning in to engineering emotions and energy with Justin Wenck PhD. Today's episode resonated with you please subscribe and leave a five star review. Your feedback not only supports the show, but also helps others find us and start their journey of emotional and energetic mastery. You can also help by sharing this podcast with someone you think will love it just as much as you do together or engineering more amazing lives.