Creator, Challenger, Coach: Escaping the Victim Loop

Do you ever catch yourself simmering in frustration—at work, in traffic, or waiting for that text back? In this episode, Justin Wenck, PhD, pulls back the curtain on why we cling to annoyance and how to finally break free.

What You’ll Learn:

• The hidden payoff of frustration and why we stay stuck in it
• How the Drama Triangle (victim, villain, hero) secretly runs your life
• The powerful shift to the Empowerment Triangle (creator, challenger, coach)
• Real-life examples to turn everyday annoyances into growth opportunities
• Why letting go of frustration leads to more joy, ease, and love in your life

Listen in if you’re ready to ditch the drama and start living as the creator of your own experience.

Watch the full video episode at Justin Wenck, Ph.D. YouTube Channel!

Check out my best-selling book "Engineered to Love: Going Beyond Success to Fulfillment" also available on Audiobook on all streaming platforms! Go to https://www.engineeredtolove.com/ to learn more!

Got a question or comment about the show? E-mail me at podcast@justinwenck.com.

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Transcript

Justin Wenck: 0:00

Get to be the creator. I'm never the victim. So nothing's happening to me. It's happening for me, and I get to choose how I respond. There's really no need to get frustrated ever. Like, I'm not saying it's not going to happen, because, again, you might probably been doing this your entire life, right? So you're not going to just like, Oh, I heard Justin's podcast, and tomorrow you're going to have zero frustrations, because it's just like, I'm the creator, I'm the Challenger, I'm the coach, and I put the right person the right role. Because, let's be honest, you do have other people that are actually playing those roles. They love playing those roles in your life. Are you ready to live a life with enough time, money and energy have relationships and connections that delight you? Are you ready for the extraordinary life you know you've been missing? If so, then this is the place for you. I'm a best selling author, coach, consultant and speaker who's worked in technology for over two decades. I'm a leader at transforming people and organizations from operating in fear, obligation and guilt to running off joy, ease and love. It's time for engineering emotions and energy with me. Justin Wenck, PhD, do you ever feel frustrated? Do you ever get annoyed with anyone or situation or circumstances? What if I was to tell you that you might be in the stuck in the habit of being frustrated and annoyed now that might annoy you or frustrate you, but before you get too you know, upset at me, you can change it, and that's what we're going to be talking about today in this episode. Is how you can break from being in the habit of frustration. And this is something that I've worked with in my own life, and it's very common, and it's okay when I first realized, well, that's not when I first but when I recently realized that this is such a prevalent. Thing was I was recently out out having some tea with a with a good friend who had recently started at a new job. And this friend told me, yeah, I love the opportunity. I love what they're doing. I got all these things going, but whenever I email the CEO, he never gets right back to me. He'll take he'll take days sometime like, what kind of a CEO is that? And many of you might be going like, yeah, what kind of a What kind of a leader is this that's not being super responsive to great employees who have great things to grow the business. And there's a way that can be true, yet it doesn't have to be true, but it does create frustration if you believe that a good CEO needs to respond to their employees immediately when they come with something that is a great opportunity. So if you believe that, I don't care how good you are, there's probably going to be some times when even the best leader or the most, you know, just busy, busy on it going to work. You know, 20 hours a day, seven days a week type is going to miss one of the emails. And what does that get to result in frustration, annoyance, upset, and you're like, Justin, why? Why would somebody want to be upset or frustrated? Well, there's there's a payoff. There's a payoff to any anything that happens in your life. There is a payoff. There's a secret benefit for anything that happens in your life, we'll do an example for myself. For much of my life, my adult life, I have had physical, physical pains in like my neck and my back shoulder, things like this, where I've I've had to go to various doctors over many years, and I still actually have some some pains that I'm working with. So as much as I've learned, grown and figured out how to how to treat my body differently and do all sorts of things myself, why hasn't the pain just gone away? Well, there's a benefit to the pain. Because one of the benefits is that if I'm in pain, I have to go to somebody to work to help me with it. And so that helps me with two very key things that had been missing for most of my life. You know, one is contact with other people, because, especially starting, you know, in pandemic times when basically be all on our own. But after that, I started working remotely from home, and so it's like, oh, if I have to go go to get a massage or go to a chiropractor or go to an acupuncture therapist, I'm actually interacting with another human and getting positive. Some touch and, you know, some some chat and some face time with another human. And the other thing is, is I'm getting help from somebody, as opposed to some working with somebody where it's maybe, you know, competitive or adversarial, right? So to get to experience human connection with somebody that's there just to help me that's awesome. Like, why would I give that up? Why would I give up my pain? There's there's a benefit. And so now that I know this, I recognize this, and I can work on the other, on the things of getting that connection, getting that help that don't come via pain, and that's happening, that's on its way. And so what is the payoff? What is the benefit to frustration? And I'm going to explain this to you, and I'm also going to explain how to get out of it, because a big part of it, it comes from something that's often called the The Drama Triangle, or I like to call it the victim triangle. And there's a way to switch this. So the Drama Triangle is basically it often involves a victim, which is why I like to call it the victim triangle, where something bad happens to them. So in this case, the case of my friend, she didn't get her email responded to as quickly as she wanted to, when, when, when something happened. And I'm powerless. I can't do anything about it. For there to be a victim, for someone to be powerless, there needs to be someone that has power over and that's the villain, the persecutor, the I'm going to be, I'm controlling, I'm criticizing and punishing. And often we put people in these roles, even though they're just doing their thing, like this CEO is, I doubt this person is actually wanting to be a villain, yet he's playing the role. And then often, in this case, the, you know, there's then the third role in the triangle is the hero, the rescuer that I'm going to come in, I'm going to fix this, I'm going to make it right, because I want to feel, I want to feel needed. So, you know, my friends being, being the victim, making the CEO the villain, and often, you know, the person listening me would want to kind of be in that hero and just go like, Oh my gosh, that sucks. You know what you should do? Here's what you do. You do this. And that the other thing, I don't play this triangle anymore, though, like, I just kind of go, why does he have to respond so quickly? Why is that necessary? And she had a reason, but it really, there is no reason. The reason is just a belief. And a belief is something that somebody believes to be true without any any fact. And this is going to be something that maybe you've heard from me before, or maybe it's brand new, and maybe you're gonna be okay with it, but maybe it's gonna really, like, hit a nerve everything you believe. And I'm not talking about, you know what, what this has to do with your spirituality, where you maybe go on a Sunday, a Saturday or for holidays, but what do you just believe about your world, like, you know, people that drive teslas. Are they a certain way? People that have tattoos? What are they like? Just, you know, and even just Whoa, if somebody doesn't respond within 10 minutes to your text message, what does that mean? All of these things are beliefs. And here's the thing that's really important, none of them are true. None of them, not a single one of them is absolutely true. Why? You've probably met people and you can eventually be one of them that has a different belief about the exact same thing, and they are having a human experience and doing just fine. So if you were to change one of these beliefs, you would also be just fine. Your life would be different, but you would be fine. So let's take, for example, the belief that somebody has to respond to me really, really quickly. I used to have that belief, like, if I don't respond, get a response quickly, then that means, but the, see, I didn't, I didn't put it on the other person. I put it on myself, like, oh, that means that I messed up. And I didn't say something funny enough, smart enough, good enough to get the response. So it's like, I'm my own villain, all in one and then usually I would go complain to somebody and let them be the rescuer. But now if somebody doesn't get back, I just figure they're living their life, and that's okay, and that enables me to also live my life and not necessarily have to get back super fast, right? So when we change our beliefs about others, let's just change our beliefs about ourselves. And so you've got this victim, you've got the villain, you've got the hero, and it's just they all get a benefit from playing this game in this circle. And again, it doesn't have to be three different people. Some of these roles can be played by the same person, and two people can go back and forth, like maybe you've ever, you know, in a relationship gone, you know, somebody's a victim, and then they make someone else a villain, and then now the villain be. Becomes the rescuer, and then the victim wants to becomes the villain. And you might be going, like, well, what's the what's the benefit of being the victim? Like, well, you get you get attention. And that's super apparent in the culture today, because basically, if you are being perpetrated against in any way, then you get so much attention. You kind of get to do. You kind of can do whatever you want, because you're a victim, and everybody wants to rescue you, and it's like, Oh, who am I to like, you know, tell a victim. No, I because I am not a villain, I'm not a perpetrator, I'm not the bad person, I'm one of the good ones. Yet, when we play into that, we actually are giving away our power. We're not a powerful hero, not a powerful hero or rescuer. We have actually unknowingly become the victim, and the victim has actually become the persecutor in a lot of times. That's why this victim triangle, Drama Triangle is so insidious, so destructive, and sometimes it's so hard to get out of because once you're in it, and you get going, you don't even know which role you're playing anymore. You just know you're in it. And it seems important, because there's all these emotions, there's anger, there's fear, and there's frustration on all these things, and it's and you've been doing it all of your life, so holy shit. How do you get out of it? How do you get out of it? There's an empowered triangle. So you go from the victim triangle to the Empowered triangle, and this is going to take, it's it takes work. It takes it takes some conscious thought to go, Wait, is this? Is this really? Is this really necessary? Is somebody really a victim here, or is this? Are these just beliefs that can cause frustration, that could be shifted, and there's no need for frustration, and this really can just be a way to learn and grow and connect. So what? What are these like? More empowered states? So the more empowered states, the empowerment triangle consists of a creator, a challenger and a coach. So the victim is the one that goes that becomes the Creator. Instead of life happens to me, it's life is happening through me. And what choices, what choices have happened to get me here? And how do I how do I want things to work out? And what choices can I make to shift where I'm at? So I was driving home today, and there's a at the freeway off ramp. There's a stop sign that makes other other cars stop, and if you're getting off the freeway, you just get to roll on through. And some people that are new, new to this area, they don't go that. They just assume that it's going to be a four way stop, like they have to stop. Why shouldn't everybody have to everybody have to stop? And so I come off the freeway, and I just keep rolling through, and someone at the stop sign just honks at me. And there's a little bit of like, oh, this asshole honked at me. Like, what the and wanting to make them the villain, like, this bad person did it. And instead, I stopped myself and go, Ah, this person, this person is new. They're not a villain. I'm not a victim. I've chosen to be here at this time. What can I take away from this? And to me, it was like, Oh, I have some I have some anger and some frustration to work, work with. And once I did that, I was like, Oh, I'm gonna just make some sound and do some movements to let these emotions move. And I was like, Oh, this is this is great. This created the perfect circumstance to know this state about me and what I needed to do to pass through it. And so what did? What did? What did I make this other person who honked at me that usually I would have made them the villain. I made them a challenger. They're no longer a villain to me. They're a challenger. They challenged me to go like, Hey, what's going on with you? What do you think the situation is? Because it's so the challenger. Their Their role is to provoke growth. They're not there to harm or to hurt or to take down. Instead, put a mirror up so someone can go, Ooh, what's, what's the truth of the situation? Like you put a little pressure, but in a way that, like a little pressure, turns coal into a diamond, not just crushes it into a bunch of little dirty pieces. And so thanks to this challenger, I got to I got to release some tension, some stress that had been building up, and I got to be thankful for them. And part of what got me here is when we get to the third, third role in the Empowered triangle, which is the coach the hero, shifts from the hero to the coach. Now, effectively, at this time, I was playing the role of my own coach, but I've had many, many times where I'd bring a situation like this to an actual coach, and they would provide their their support, their perspective, tools and tricks, and they leave it to me. They're not here. To solve my problem, fix it. They're just there to give perspective, give tools and give support to, you know, a way to listen. And so I was playing the role of my own coach. And so the more and more I say no to being frustrated, I say no to that victim triangle, and the more I say yes to this empowerment triangle, the more I just get to learn from the experience. Enjoy it, even if it's not necessarily enjoyable in the moment, it's there can be a joy that I'm alive and I'm learning and I'm growing, and this is allowing me to have even better experiences. This is all part of the process of getting me to where I ultimately want to go. Because again, I'm I'm get to be the creator. I'm never the victim. So nothing's happening to me, it's happening for me, and I get to choose how I respond. And so there's really no need to get frustrated ever like, I'm not saying it's not going to happen, because, again, it's you might probably been doing this your entire life, right? So you're not going to just like, Oh, I heard Justin's podcast, and tomorrow you're going to have zero frustrations, because it's just like, I'm the creator, I'm the Challenger, I'm the coach, and I put the right person the right role. Because, let's be honest, you do have other people that are actually playing those roles. They love playing those roles in your life. And so they're gonna get, they're gonna get they are gonna get frustrated, they're gonna get angry. They're gonna get pissed off when they want to play the victim and you don't play the role you should play. And because it's like, Wait, we're going to play the game. Why are you not playing the game like a little child, they're going to get upset. And so you got to be ready for that. And that's okay. It's just part of the process. Because, again, this, this really is a big shift from, you know, going from blame to ownership, reactivity to creativity, rescuing to empowering and getting out of the habit of being frustrated. So really curious. What are your thoughts on this? What are areas of your life where maybe you're seeing like, holy shit, I've been unnecessarily frustrated, annoyed, upset, and I could just be done. I could be done with it. I'm not saying you're going to get done with it immediately. But is there the chance, the possibility? Because my friend, when I was like, well, couldn't it just be okay that this guy's taken a couple, a couple extra days to get back to you, and it's like, Oh no, that's not okay. It's not okay. It's not okay. But again, like it's, it's, how badly do you want your frustration? If you want it, there's plenty to be had. But if you're sick of it, if you're done, it's kind of like, it's kind of like diet. If you've been sick and feeling like garbage, and you find out that, oh my gosh, you know that you're basically, you're intolerant to like dairy, right? It's if you keep having the dairy, you're gonna keep having the stomach upset, and you're gonna keep feeling like shit. But if you're sick and tired of feeling that way, and just you're like, you're done with the dairy, and recognize there's other things to eat, you can start feeling a whole lot better. It's just a choice. It's just a choice. And when you choose to shift, that's up to you, and you can go in and out. It's not an it's not an all or done, just like, you know, I've talked on this show about how I've done some shifts in my diet, and it's not 100% I go on vacation, I enjoy some yummy, delicious foods. I know it's gonna cost me something, and, you know, there's ways that I mitigate, yet there's going to be a little bit of a price to pay. So I make sure that it's for something that's, like, really worth it. It's really fun, and then it's just for a little bit. And it can be like that with, you know, the frustration things like that, like, because maybe it is just kind of fun for you to have a little argument of discussion with somebody about politics whatever, like, it's your blood running or whatever, and just recognize you're choosing it and doing it because it's you're you enjoy it. You enjoy it when you recognize that you're in the driver's seat. A lot of these things that used to just feel like hell on earth become a cute little fun game, kind of just like it's, you know, like being a kid playing house. You've you've always been playing house, just you forgot you were playing the game. And you can choose a different game. You can go from the Drama Triangle of the victim, the villain and the hero, and you can switch that to the Creator, to the Challenger and to the coach. So what game do you want to be playing? Do you want to be stuck in drama and frustration, or is it time to step into being empowered and enjoying your life, that joy ease and love and if you're ready, but you're like, not exactly sure how, then reach out. That's what. That's what. You know, I've got the book. Work the engineered to love can get that lots of great, great stories and exercises, and then also just working with me. So do encourage you, make sure you're following me. Get on one of my lists, so that when I do do an event, you can, you're you're there, and you can get the benefit. Or if you just want to work one on one, reach out. We'll figure something out. Because I do want more and more people to come over to the empowerment triangle and just start enjoying life no matter what it throws at us, instead of throwing more garbage at each other. In this Drama Triangle, it's enough. It's enough. It's time for some new stories. Because the Drama Triangle, the victim triangle. To me, it, it's very similar to the hero's journey, which is in so many movies, so many stories, and I'm sick of it. It's time for some new stories where it's like, oh, things were really interesting, but oh, how could things get even cooler and more amazing? And what could we discover? And how could we grow? And what, what could we bring to this world? And I want to know what you want to bring to this world. So, so grateful to have you listening watching. It's been great. And with that, thank you and good day. Thanks for tuning in to engineering emotions and energy with Justin Wenck PhD, today's episode resonated with you, please subscribe and leave a five star review. Your feedback not only supports the show, but also helps others find us and start their journey of emotional and energetic mastery. You can also help by sharing this podcast with someone you think will love it just as much as you do together, we're engineering more amazing lives you