Episode 046: Vonda and Lori talk a bit about a book they find fascinating. This read can help you discover why a friend shares something with you, or you want to share something exciting with them . But it can also give you ideas for marketing your business. Contagious: Why Things Catch On by author Jonah Berger is a book packed with stories and studies that we think you too will find enjoyable.
Our sponsors: Flower Clique, to help you elevate your business
and Flower Prep School, the perfect solution to bring you from Desire to Designer
Sponsored by:
Flower Clique
Flower Clique Prep School
Real Life Retail Florist
Episode 046: Vonda and Lori talk a bit about a book they find fascinating. This read can help you discover why a friend shares something with you, or you want to share something exciting with them . But it can also give you ideas for marketing your business. Contagious: Why Things Catch On by author Jonah Berger is a book packed with stories and studies that we think you too will find enjoyable.
Our sponsors: Flower Clique, to help you elevate your business
and Flower Prep School, the perfect solution to bring you from Desire to Designer
Sponsored by:
Flower Clique
Flower Clique Prep School
Real Life Retail Florist
Remarkable things provide social currency because they make people want to talk about them because they're just truly more remarkable. Laurie,
Speaker 2:This podcast is going to be a little bit of a surprise to our clickers because it's about a book that I am suggesting to you.
Speaker 3:That of me. Yes. Now I'm excited and I'm going to be super honest and transparent. I have not read this whole book yet. I have read parts of it. And I want to say it's a very easy, because it's fascinating. He uses a lot of story in, you know, to prove his points. And so, you know, you know, me and story,
Speaker 2:I love that story. You love a good story and I've got to be totally transparent because this book was recommended to me by my son Sayer, who knows me pretty well. And he knows it has to be an easy read. Right. And I really do perk up when he suggests something and I really just click and buy. So I did, and it reminds me of a book I read many years ago and probably so many of our clickers have heard of or read themselves. And that was called the tipping point by Malcolm Gladwell. And it always has fascinated me to why some things catch on or as we say, these days go viral. So our book today is called contagious. Why things catch on by Jonathan Berger? Yes.
Speaker 3:We're in the midst of a virus and we're reading a book called contagious.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're right. I would think of that in the shower this morning. I'm like, okay, well this maybe is not so good. It just now, because I'm looking at it. So, and I think it is relevant today because the power of flowers seems to be hitting that tipping point or becoming contagious because people are realizing that flowers can do a lot for mental health and happiness. So catching on being contagious.
Speaker 3:And as you're, you know, we're going to talk about, he talks a lot about what triggers people to buy or to want to be a part of. And we can see that in the floral industry, because we have always said it's an emotional buy. Yes, for sure. You know, so I feel like in our time, right now, the floral industry, we've honestly been very blessed. They already kind of knew how to do what we're doing, how to get, how to deliver, how to do all this stuff during a pandemic, not knowing there was going to be one.
Speaker 2:Well, you think of just recently society of American florists with their pedal at forward, right. That really was getting the flowers in their hand, which in a sense could become contagious because they had that of what they felt. And it's like, I want
Speaker 3:To pass them along everybody
Speaker 2:To do what I'm doing as business owners. We're always trying to find that little bit of an edge, something to make you and your shop a little bit better or something that customers want to flag.
Speaker 3:And, you know, Vonda, I think most people do this naturally reading this book has made me more aware of how I tell people about things. Let's go back to Julie. So I bought a sweater, remember my little 15,$20 sweater wore it all the time. And she commented on it. And I was so excited to tell her where I got it, what a bargain. It was, even though like my husband's like, why do you always tell people, like I got that at a resale shop? Or I got that because I'm excited. Right? I like to share great deals or whatever. And so she bought the sweater and then I think she had a friend that was like, Ooh, I liked the sweater. I got it off Amazon. It was only$15 or, you know, whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 2:Exactly. That's exactly what happened. One of the things that we're talking about in social currency, which is what you were doing is that it doesn't have to be a remarkable product. Is there a thing, you know, sometimes it's a remarkable product that people want to share. Sometimes it's a good bargain that you want to share. And it just shows that it doesn't matter if you want to be the one who's like, Ooh, I want to share this because it was good for me. So I think it'll be
Speaker 3:Right. And it's not even, Oh, look how cool I am. Look what I did. That's really, usually not our motive. It's because we care about that person. We want them to get the same deal we got or experience the same joy or feeling that we had.
Speaker 2:Yes. I totally agree. One of these is talking about social currency in the story, and sometimes the story comes out differently depending on who it's coming from or who you're telling it to. Okay. Okay. So think about, you're not a big fishermen, but you've heard fish stories and how is it that sometimes the fish is 12 inches and then it gets to be 18 inches and then it gets to be 24. Right. And it's not because we're trying to exaggerate it's because it says, and I think this is kind of kind our memories. Aren't a perfect record of what actually happened. So in the process, stories become more extreme or exaggerated, especially when you tell them in front of a group of people. So one to one, you tell it, okay, this is the way it is. But when you
Speaker 3:In a group, yeah. Exaggerating, come on. Let's be honest. We all do that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Finding an inner remarkability to think about it because you want to surprise somebody. You want them to find something interesting. And that's something that becomes contagious is bright person finds it interesting or something.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think about my dad was a storyteller. He still is. But the stories he would tell me of his childhood, you know, he's going to be 86 and the same stories like the whole, I walked 10 miles to school and then 20 miles back in snow storms and uphill both ways and uphill, both ways. So those types of stories, I'm fascinated because they get more in more exaggerated story. I don't know if he knows he's doing it. I think he just wants it to be a really cool story. And it's like,
Speaker 2:Like you said, it's not that they really want to exaggerate it. This is saying it's
Speaker 3:You want to be remarkable. So Vonda, I want to back up a minute because I keep talking about social currency. I'm not sure that people understand what that is because I know I didn't, according to this book, social currency basically means that people share things with others to make themselves look good. And you and I were talking about that earlier today and yes, I think there are things we do to make ourselves look good. But I also think there are so many reasons we share just because things that bring us joy, we want to bring joy to others.
Speaker 2:Exactly. And I think we're going to get into a little of that, but social currency is also people like to talk about themselves, but what makes people talk about their thoughts and experiences more than others? So like you're saying you want to share, but what is it that makes you want to talk about it? And that's kind of the social thing. It's like certain things make us want to share more. Certain things have better social currency, like remarkable things like that are unusual, extraordinary, or worthy of notice or attention. Remarkable things provide social currency because they make people want to talk about them because they're just truly more remarkable. And then as you know, at the end of the book, it's like, what's remarkable to me.
Speaker 3:Me might not be remarkable to you. Yeah, exactly. That's very true. That reminds me of a conversation I had this week, you know, I'm here visiting my son in Ohio and I had lunch with a group of people and I didn't know, some of them, one of them was sharing a story and I kind of got really sidetracked. Did you ever do that when someone's telling a story and you're not quite following, and then your mind starts going, why is this story being shared? Like it's, I couldn't figure out what and, and may, you know, it could be me, but anyway, it could have been because it wasn't remarkable to me. It wasn't remarkable to somebody else was very remarkable, right. That nothing was wrong with the story itself or the person, right. That person's take on. It was different than what I like, what you were saying
Speaker 2:Was fine. But the way it was being received was not truly not the right person.
Speaker 3:I was the wrong audience. Let's just say,
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, the other thing about social currency is think about airlines and how they have preferred programs or reward programs. And you feel like you're special. And that's a lot of a social currency thing. Loyalty clubs are really a social currency to be part of that exclusive. And I can tell you too
Speaker 3:People near and dear to my life that are big into that are Vonda Lefever and Mark Wilson, their social currency with their airlines. Well, yes, it's important. It is important. And this COVID thing has grounded them. And they're not really happy about it. We are not, you are so right.
Speaker 2:Many of us like that.
Speaker 3:However, when I hear you to say it, it is not remarkable to me. Cause I don't care.
Speaker 2:A lot of my designer friends are in the same boat as Mark and I just so you can appreciate it.
Speaker 3:Doesn't it drive something in me to want to be a part of it. How about that?
Speaker 2:It's interesting because it talks about a way to mint, social currency, social currency. People like to make a good impression, right? So the way that we behave, the way that we're sharing things can really do that. Sometimes it's scarcity or being exclusive, those are things. And how about this one? Don't tell anybody, well, maybe one person. And then what do you do? The secret, the big secret that's one that is social currency because you're somebody who was giving an inside scoop and you were like, feeling like you're having a lot of social occurrancy right, right.
Speaker 3:And who doesn't want to know this scoop? That's what are the skinny on the scoop?
Speaker 2:So then I'm going to move along to triggers. Now triggers to me are again, fascinating. Cause something you see triggers you to do something else. In our case flowers, what is it that we're seeing or hearing is going to trigger us or our customers to buy flowers? One that I think allows people to understand that. And that's peanut butter. When I say peanut butter, what do you think of? I think
Speaker 3:Jeff creamy, peanut butter.
Speaker 2:What else do you associate with peanut butter? Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Exactly. So people, when they see peanut butter, they think jelly, they think food, they think sandwich, which is a trigger. So peanut butter has done a really good job, not on purpose, but when you see peanut butter in the aisle, a lot of people go, Oh, I want a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.
Speaker 3:Oh, for sure. Think about grocery stores. The placement, the jelly is by the peanut butter.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 3:And the honey. I mean all of the things that go together right there. So that is some psychological genius marketing on purpose. I'm sure.
Speaker 2:Strength. The trigger depends on the frequency in which you see it. So if you only go to the grocery store every once in a while pass it, I'll, you're only thinking of peanut butter and jelly when you're past that. And also like you just said, the trigger associated with what you're seeing. So you see the peanut butter, you see the jelly they're together. For instance, it doesn't always work. So if I get out of my shower and I slip and I'm like, dang, I need a bathmat. It's nowhere for me to buy a bath mat. I'm not going to get out of the shower, go to the computer, click on Amazon, buy a bath mat. I'm going to slip five or six times because the trigger is not associated closely to the desired behavior. So it's the physical is removed, not close by. So I can't remember it. So the triggered isn't as important. Wow.
Speaker 3:Wow. So apply that to a flower shop. If we're trying to pull triggers for people, I'm sitting here thinking if I'm walking into a store, especially around Christmas, around the holidays, this is where we did a whole thing for our members. But I'll talk a little bit about it here. I think gift guides and Ellie is queen of the gift guide. She will gift guides and I use them for my Christmas shopping, but we were talking about creating sections in the store for like gifts for her dad gifts for mom gifts, for teenager gifts for mother-in-law because it's going to trigger. Not only, Oh, I need to buy for her or him or whatever, but it's going to be all right there in front of you, everything you need. And you think of the majority of the flower shops, they can do this. There's no reason they can't come up with some creative vignettes in their store for men, for women, for children. Think about all the cute plush. A lot of them have all of those kinds of things. So those are triggers, you know, walking in, especially for somebody that is a kind of a last minute shopper. I don't want to throw anything under the bus, but Mark Wilson, he in there and see that for her, that for mom, that for dad, you know, so easy, so easy.
Speaker 2:So Laurie would the flower shop then benefit from taking pictures of the sign and the products for sure. Post that on social media and maybe they should boost those posts. So that's going to meet, reach a bigger audience and say, if you think this is a good idea for your share it, or, you know, if you think, because the sharing is where the social currency comes in, because I think this is a great idea. So I'm going to share it with you, right? Really it's hitting them all. It's a trigger it's social currency because I'm suggesting it to you really for the public because they're like, wow, that's
Speaker 3:Right. Well, and the other thing I could see here is when someone does come in and let's say they buy for their mother-in-law and their daughter, and maybe, I don't know, dad or something, and you're packaging all these up in pretty cellophane or whatever, take pictures and say, Hey, Vonda just got half of her Christmas shopping done in the store. Look at this, you know, again, sharing, look what other people are doing.
Speaker 2:The other big part of being contagious is emotion. And you're hitting on that somewhat there too. But when we went through this emotion and it talks about email lists and talks about the importance of sharing them and all I can think of is my dad and always forward, forward, forward, he thought it was funny.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I still have family members that do that.
Speaker 2:Oh, we still have people who have forward for before. That was a big deal. It was. And still once in a while, I'm like, Ooh, Laurie, here's an article. You should read this. You know? Or you think of that person who you know, is going to think, wow, that is kind of cool. Then it gives more merit because whatever you suggest to me, like you suggest a book to me. I'm like, Ooh, I better look at that. At least look at the cliff notes, see what it is because it must be really good or Lauren's not going to recommend it. Same with Sayer, you know, same type of thing. Right. It is that recommendation from a person personally who thinks, Oh my gosh, just you should know about this. And then I'm like, Oh yeah, I knew she'd like that. And you'd be like, Ooh, I did like it.
Speaker 3:Very interesting. I liked the well, we're going to go into that section next. The power of awe. Yes. In negative. They, the word arousal. But I was thinking vibes like positive vibes, negative vibes. What gives us all the fields and how you market a new pull on someone's heartstrings is clearly the best way because most of us are emotional buyers and buying flowers is emotional buy. So positive vibes are the high positives are things like awe excitement, funny, you know, who doesn't love funny and then positive vibes that are like lower or contentment and mint. I mean, that's a positive, but it's like, uh, you know, we've talked before on here on the whole Winnie the Pooh world of low expressed emotion, that sort of, that's a positive thing, contended that negative. So I think it's funny. And we stopped in mid-sentence and got online because when you read that you read it a different way. Word of awe I think
Speaker 2:Is so different because when I'm in awe of something, it could be a really beautiful design. Right. It could be something that I'm just like, wow, that is something I really want to share it because I think it's just remarkable. And you were talking about
Speaker 3:Aw, so awesome. You know, kind of thing. And I'm excited when I read the same chapter,
Speaker 4:It was like, yeah. All is what moves them like, Oh, that's so cute. I was like, Oh,
Speaker 3:I love that. It's the heartstrings. And yours is more like I'm in awe. So I think they're both right. They are. But the chapter said out of excitement, funny, ah, awe is number one, what moves us the most that you are in awe of, you know, what you and I both love like American idol. We love the voice or America's got talent when the little kid comes on and you know, and you're literally in awe also in awe, when somebody sends you the cute little video, YouTube video of the toddler, holding the baby for the first time, you know, those kinds of things.
Speaker 2:One thing I thought was interesting in that is your state of mind when you decide to share something, that was an experiment that was like, these students were coming in the room and they were going to be given some information to decide whether they wanted to share or not one group. They just had come in and sit down. Right. Then did nothing. They just came in and sit down. And then we're given that to share the others. They had run in place for one minute before they walked in, because then their heart was racing and they were okay,
Speaker 3:More inspired had their adrenaline going
Speaker 2:Adrenaline going exactly. And 75% more shares by the people who were physically active than the person was just sitting there. Wow. Wasn't that something I was like, wow, maybe
Speaker 3:Should run in place before our webinars. Well, I think we usually do our adorable you're right. We do, we are running around and the designer knows that the adrenaline is pumping.
Speaker 2:They go to do some type of presentation, but then we go back to emotions, really drive people into action. That is like, you're mentioned whether it's online or whether it's all
Speaker 3:Right, right, right. Really drives
Speaker 2:You to respond and to do
Speaker 3:That. Well, what I think is also interesting yet kind of scary. The two things that cause us to share are either high emotion or negative emotion, like anger, high anxiety, videos, like, you know, showing people, fighting, showing a woman going to McDonald's to order and they get in a big, like that kind of stuff that gets here. I can not watch it. My daughter will send me, Oh, did you see this? Or even my other juicy doesn't like, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not. I'm choosing not to see it. Don't send it to me. True. It's like extremes are the things that get shared really good point. It's amazing to me, most people act, meaning the buy is the positive off.
Speaker 2:That's what we're looking for in the flower business. And in most cases, is it, you want it to be a positive because we know how positive flowers can be.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, exactly. And that's where you post the picture on Instagram, where you just create it. And I've seen our shops. A lot of our members do this and I love it. Just created two dozen pink roses for this man to surprise his wife for their anniversary. You know, those share those stories like, Oh my gosh, that's so sweet. And then boom, it's top of mind awareness. And the wife's like, did you say like, blah, blah, blah. And then the guidance, that's how you start sharing.
Speaker 2:There's a link right there. Now then you can buy because you're on the, it's not a far away place. I'm not in the bathroom so I can actually get on my phone and go, okay, this has triggered an emotion. And it makes me want to buy because I meant off what I said.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You know, we have one of our flower clinic members, Steve Regata. I think I've talked about him before on here. I keep telling him, I keep talking about you or something. He does. And I actually interviewed him for our members about it. He does the most amazing custom sympathy designs. And I don't just mean beautiful elegant. Yes. He can do that. But he does like a tractor or a big baseball Mitt or, you know, something super personal. And he has developed this following because he just started posting it on his Facebook page. I mean, this wasn't something, this wasn't like a goal. He had to be this guy in the shop, but he has other flower shops contract him out to do these things. And it's all because he just kept posting it and posting it and they would show up at the funeral and people were like, Oh my gosh, that's so cool. And instead of complete sadness all the time, you got a little bit of awe. Right. And remarkable, remarkable. Absolutely. And so they share, where do you mind, where did you have your flowers done? I mean, and it was remarkable and people that saw it were literally in awe. It gives the family all of the feels, all of the emotions, all of the good stuff, because it's customized. Let's
Speaker 2:Go on to a social proof. You know, we're talking about the public now and what is it? And I know you have some great notes on this. It's about the public seeing things. And it comes down to, if you're uncertain about something like, Oh, I'm not sure I'm going to like that. Then if I see somebody wearing it or hearing about that, um, then I'm like, Oh, well, yeah, maybe it is a good idea. You know, when we can observe things, they have a higher impact. Like if I'm looking at your shirt that you have on, I'm like, Ooh, I kinda like it. Well, the sweater stories,
Speaker 3:Right. Or there's a lady I follow online. She's a blogger, but she does fashion. But by fashion, I don't mean like high end, fancy fashion, just normal, everyday clothing. And uh, what I like about it, two things. Number one, I don't have time to shop. So I just kind of look at all the stuff she does and thinks, Oh, that, and number two, she's around my age. So something that I might see like, Oh, what's that look okay. On a 52 year old person, she is wearing something similar. Okay. Okay. There's my proof. Right, right. She looks good. And then there's 400 comments saying how great she looks. So I'm in good company. So I'm going to, I'm going to go for it. I'm going to order this.
Speaker 2:It's interesting. You say about those comments because that's called behavioral residue and that's what opinions and behavior of others, especially online is called. So when we're asking for reviews, whether it's, I always call it good, better, best. If you're going to write a review, that's really good. If you could give me a video review, that's even better. But the best thing is that person would pick up the phone and say to you, Hey Lori, this would look awesome on you, then you're in. Right. So that's kind of the products. Um, but yeah, that's w behavioral residence.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I do. I read those reviews. If I'm before I'm getting ready to buy something, I read those reviews. They're so important. Um, but you know, you also know you're going to get some fake ones in and if you read them enough in your experience, you can tell the ones that are like, eh, this is just a disgruntled person, right? In the book. A couple of things I thought were interesting. They did a test on people that were on the kidney transplant list. They didn't, I was fascinated by that. So I'm going to try to paraphrase it as much as I can. But basically they were saying that the number of people that refuse kidneys, like if I'm numb a hundred on the list, right. And someone calls us, okay, there's a kidney. It's bypass all of those other people. So those people either just weren't matches, which is a big part of it. Or they turned it down and they said, the time it got to the hundredth person, they start thinking, well, something's gotta be wrong with this kidney. So I'm not going to have it either. I know. Yes. It says social proof leads people to turn down available kidneys. So if you're the hundredth person on the list, a kidney would have been first offered to the first person on the list. And then the second and so on to finally reach you, it must have been turned down by 99. Other people. This is where social proof comes into play. If many others have refused this kidney, people assume it must not be a good one. They infer it's low quality and are more likely to turn it down. In fact, such inferences led one in every 10 people who refused the kidney, did it in error. Like it would have yeah. For them. Wow.
Speaker 2:And that's a life and death thing that
Speaker 3:Is like, man, I don't know much about the transplant community, but I, I thought the only reason they would turn it down as if it wasn't a match, but I get it. So the other one that we can relate to a little more is like the food truck. So he had a food truck, they got a really good review. When they first started, it was like, um, chicken and he gyros or heroes, however you pronounce it. And so they were like, you stand in line, you know, every day. And they're still doing great right across from them was another food truck. They owned it. Basically the same food just called something different. Never align, same food. But whereby this one, I see that in, in Texas all the time, there are certain barbecue places and they are the hole in the walls. And you stand in line. If you want it for lunch, you're there by nine 30 or 10 o'clock you're in line to get it. And I'm like, but there's one next door. Like how much better can this be?
Speaker 2:Think about it. When you want to go to a restaurant, you go to the one that has the most cars at it, because you're like, that must be a really good place because there are a lot of people.
Speaker 3:Right, right. We, you know, we try to go to some local to support local restaurants lately, but, and there's one that opened right before COVID and my husband and I were going to go the other day and we drove up, there was one car and you're like, nah, I don't want to go. It's like, you don't want to risk it. Right. Sad. Because 95% of the people are doing that. Owned it. I would have everybody parked their cars in the front and look like they're crowded. No, that's a really good idea for sure.
Speaker 2:Think about it. Even online reviews for flower shops, the more reviews you have. I mean, if you have three reviews, people are like, well, okay. But 50 reviews and you still have a lesser star. You have more people who are interacting with you, which says to you, well maybe that's a better one to look at all those reviews. Yep. Yep. I agree
Speaker 3:On Yelp. I agree on Google, but I also believe that's why the whole goal of your Facebook page is in engagement, gets people talking on there. The more people talk, the more other people, those people's friends, everybody sees it because it kind of shows up in your newsfeed. So your friend Vonda just commented on dah, dah, dah. It draws people to you. And the more you can get that conversation, the more people have social proof that you are a quality flower shop.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Great point. Well, Lori, I think we probably better wrap it up. Is there anything else that you think we need to add before we come up with our takeaways?
Speaker 3:No, I think, I mean, I got to finish the book, so I don't feel like
Speaker 2:The big takeaway. And actually you wrote this down that is, people don't want to be told something. They want to be moved.
Speaker 3:That's so true. And you know, Ellie has said forever, like, people want the experience. We want the experience. We want to be moved. We don't want to just be saying, you need this. You know, so
Speaker 2:That's true. It is the experience. And so it comes down to social proof. Like we know what's good and we're in awe of that product or our beautiful flowers. We're in awe of that. And so we're triggered by looking at those flowers to think of somebody else who really, we can be the smart one or the influencer to share that with them.
Speaker 3:Yep, exactly. So again, the book was called contagious. Why things catch on it's by Jonah Berger, B E R G E R. And he's written some other books too. That were probably really good. So grab it if you want it. Oh, Vonda. What's given you life right now. My coffee it's early in the morning. Yes.
Speaker 2:So my coffee is actually giving me life with a little bit of that sweet cream, almond creamer and cinnamon. Of course the cinnamon.
Speaker 3:You do know that I switched to the almond sweet cream because of, you know, I didn't, and I don't buy the fat-free stuff with the chemicals as much chemicals. I know they all have chemical in it, but I switched over to that one. So thank you. I love it. But I knew Hardiman in mind and I don't ask me why. I can't quite remember why, but there was a reason. So what is
Speaker 2:Giving you life this morning? What's giving
Speaker 3:Me life this morning. And when we launched this, I won't be here anymore. Is catching up with old friends. I lived in Ohio for 15 years and seeing friends that our families did life together, not just woman to woman, but our whole families. And we, we spent last night at dinner with a family and it's, it's just, it's fun. And it is like nothing has ever changed. And to see your kids all interacting since they were two years old, um, I went to sleep happy and content and I woke up early. Like I was so, yeah, yeah. Interacting with the whole families as adults now. I mean kids, adult, instead of, you know, our, our youngest two were ones. We couldn't go to any parties because they would sneak out and get markers and draw on random houses. They were awful. They were children. And now they're 20. So they didn't do that last night. We were really proud of them. We have certainly enjoyed our time together today. And we look forward to being with you guys again, if you have any questions, concerns, comments, anything we would love to hear from you. You can always email Laurie at flower, click.com. Also, if you enjoy our little podcast, go ahead and click that subscribe button. That's very helpful for us. And you can even leave a review and we hope you join us next week. Yes. So please come back and join us
Speaker 1:A bit of knowledge. And one small change in your mindset can take you to new levels in your life and business.[inaudible].