The Business & Pleasure of Flowers

Tips to Increase Sympathy Sales in Your Floral Business

Episode 119

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Episode 119: Vonda and Lori are joined by Audrey Kristoff, Product Manager at Flower Clique, to chat about sympathy sales. We recently hosted a webinar for FC members only and shared facts about trends in the funeral business (available from National Funeral Directors Association website) as well as tips on how to increase sales in your store. In the webinar Ralph Giordano AIFD from Giordano's Floral Creations and Trish Engle from K'nees Florist in Moline, IL, both Flower Clique members, shared their tips that have gained them a major increase in their overall flower sales.

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SPEAKER_03

The increase in the last five years for a burial cost has been just over six percent, but the increase for cremations is over eleven percent. So you can see how the funeral homes are charging more just with the trends. It is a business.

SPEAKER_00

Welcome to the Business and Pleasure of Flowers. We're your hosts, Vonda LaFever.

SPEAKER_01

And Lori Wilson. And we believe that business and fun are a perfect combination. Kind of like us, Vonda.

SPEAKER_00

Well, Lori, it's good to be back on a Friday.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, it's our Friday morning pod. It's what we call. But we have a guest today.

SPEAKER_00

We do. We have a special guest. Welcome, Audrey. Hello, girls. How are you?

SPEAKER_02

We're doing well, Miss Audrey Christoph. What is your title with Flower Click? I don't know anyone's title. I don't even know what mine is, but what is yours?

SPEAKER_03

I am the project manager. So I manage product manager.

SPEAKER_02

Product product manager. Yes. You can be the project one too.

SPEAKER_00

I don't I think you're a project manager and a product manager, really.

SPEAKER_03

So I manage the products, the flower bouquets, and the celebration of life books.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, wedding galleries.

SPEAKER_03

And wedding galleries.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. And and you you gloss over when you say the flower bouquets as if that's just a little tiny part. Right.

SPEAKER_03

But uh the major bulk of my time is probably taken up with the flower click exclusive bouquets for our members. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So so Vonda and I, because we are always so organized and ahead of the game, texted you last night and said, hey, or actually Vonda did, will you be on the podcast with us today?

SPEAKER_00

I'm here for you. I'm here for you.

SPEAKER_02

Well, sure.

SPEAKER_00

That's good. I mean, Lori, you missed a really important member meeting we had this week and we thought, you know, we could catch you up and our clickers on what was going on. Yeah. Important stuff.

SPEAKER_02

I absolutely uh agree because you know, I never miss a webinar, but I had a doctor's appointment and been on the calendar for a long time. And uh so when it was over, I was getting all these emails the next day from our members asking me questions that I couldn't answer. So I was like, I need to have a meeting with Vonda and Audrey and get the down low on what went on because you guys had some of our members as like a panel, right?

SPEAKER_03

We did. We had a couple um members as panelists, and they talked about um how they have built relationships with funeral homes and funeral directors and have exclusive business with them. We talked a little bit about developing those relationships and commission structures. Yeah, it was a lot of information.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, so my question is the the main point of this member session was to talk about our up. Well, we've had Celebration of Life or Sympathy books for a long time, but you you guys have a new one that you're rolling out, right? An updated one.

SPEAKER_00

I think the biggest reason we did, Lori, is because there's so many of our members who are new, right? And that didn't even know that we had this source available. And so Audrey had been getting the questions, or you or Cammy, and we're like, you know what, we just need to have a member meeting so that we can update them on, you know, what it is, why you should use it, you know, the advantages, and then how you go about ordering it. So I think that's the reason that we felt this was important.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. All right. So fill me in. How did the whole thing start?

SPEAKER_00

Well, we kind of started with why, right? Why do you need to have something in your store or with your funeral director? And bottom line, it's really to grow your business. I talked about sympathy business or flowers for a funeral are what they call necessary sales, right? Because people will buy flowers for a funeral. And a lot of times uh shops will go, well, yeah, but I can't increase the business there, right? Because it's there's only so much there, there's not a lot I can do where we know that's really not true. Sympathy sales are not going to be taken over by the do-it-yourself crowd, right? They're not gonna be out there um making flowers. So you really have a chance to, as Audrea said, develop that relationship and make a difference in the sales in your shop. Then we moved on to the difference in sympathy business right now, which is changing from traditional burials to the cremations, which everybody who's listening probably already knows this. You know, that the shift is happening, it's been happening for the last, you know, 15, 20 years.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_00

But it's now at like almost 58% cremations and a little over 36% burials. So that makes a huge difference in the way you're ordering flowers, selling flowers, working with families.

SPEAKER_03

Gosh, I wonder what it was 10 years ago. I mean, I remember us doing some sympathy webinars in the past, and it was closer to half and half and heavier on the burial side. So even within the last five, six years, I think there's been a big shift already.

SPEAKER_00

There has been. I think I was looking at 2016, and the burials were still like at 48%, and the cremations were just right at 50%. So that has really shifted in the last like six, seven years, you know, to where it's like taken this big jump. And I think more so, not just as much of a jump, but more of a fall, really, in the traditional. Um, and then the cost, which kind of blew me away because last time I did the webinar that you and I worked together on in 2016, it was saying that the traditional cremation costs were like $4,000.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Now they're saying it's $6,900. So yeah, because they're they're doing some non-negotiables as far as service in a funeral home, because of course, you know, they still have to pick up a body, they have to do this. And so those costs have gone up. And, you know, I suppose rightly so, because they're still performing the same services. It's just, you know, a little bit different what they're doing with them.

SPEAKER_02

Well, well, they probably realized they're losing money. You know, I always thought, oh, cremations are less expensive than funerals. Um, so they probably were getting so many, they're like, all right, wait, we need to figure out a way to recoup some of this cost.

SPEAKER_03

And it's still a business, you know, businesses shift with what the trends are. Sure. So, you know, Bonda had these statistics that the increase in the last five years for funeral costs for a burial cost has been just over six percent, but the increase for cremations is over 11%. So you can see how the funeral homes are charging more just with the trends of you know what's happening. So it is a business.

SPEAKER_02

Wow. I have a question from a flower shop designer owner's perspective. I'm curious the the difference between the two types of funerals. Is there a difference in what you would order for a funeral, uh flower arrangement-wise? Or would you just still get a stand? I know you wouldn't get a casket spray, right?

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_02

But other than that, would you still do standing sprays? What's that like?

SPEAKER_00

Oftentimes there's an urn with the cremains in them, and so you want to surround those with flowers. So that's kind of the focal. Or some people use a picture instead, you know, so you still want something there to represent the the family. Oftentimes um they won't go with a standing spray because the funeral homes oftentimes have a couple different pillars that they can put two different arrangements on. So you still want to have that front viewing area representing the family and flowers or family and friends. Let me ask you guys have you ever been to a funeral that there were no flowers? No, never.

SPEAKER_02

No, and you know what's weird? I've never been to a funeral where there was a cremation. Really? Never, no, wow, isn't that weird? I was just thinking about that the other day. I'm like, huh.

SPEAKER_00

That is weird.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so I don't even know. That's why I was asking about flowers. I have no idea.

SPEAKER_00

Hmm, that's very interesting.

SPEAKER_02

I have a sheltered life. Or I don't know quite enough people that have died. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I think the challenge for a flower shop owner or salesperson when the family comes in is yeah, they they want flowers for the celebration of life, is what we like to call them, instead of just a memorial service. And the difference between a memorial service and a traditional funeral is that there's a body present at one and there's not at the other, right? And the focus is either one or the other. Celebration of life, people like to like, they're really celebrating the life of the loved one. And it's usually a little bit more personalized service. When we look at what you're going to suggest for that celebration of life, a lot of people will go, well, you just want something around the urn. Well, if you're celebrating someone's life, you don't want just one arrangement there, right? It's like, hey, my dad did this, my dad did that, you know, so some personalized pieces that really show what he was all about, you know, what is it that represents him in his life? Yes. As a person who's selling those flowers, you want to suggest multiple pieces instead of just the one design that's in the center. And we talk about that in our new um Sympathy Prep School that we'll have coming up um sometime after Mother's Day. So there's more to it than just going, oh, yep, you want something up front here.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

I thought the other interesting information was that almost 90% of funeral homes are still owned by an individual or a family. Because what we hear in the industry is like, oh my gosh, all these conglomerates, right? These chain of funeral homes have bought up all the small guys. But it's actually reporting, and this was at the end of 2021, that you know, 89.2% of families still own the majority of the funeral homes.

SPEAKER_02

89.2. I didn't realize that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean, everybody seems to think consolidated funeral homes owns the majority. And the other interesting fact, and maybe it's just because like I kind of like think this is kind of cool, there's an average of 113 deaths per year per funeral home in that community.

SPEAKER_02

Uh wait, a hundred and so a family normal size, average size funeral home, mom and pop funeral home, goes does 113 funerals per year.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

I feel like there'd be more. When I saw that, it made me think, okay, so 113 funerals. So if the local funeral home is doing even three pieces, that's you know, a hundred and you mean the local flower shop? Yes. Yeah, yeah. So if the local flower shop is doing one or two or let's say three arrangements for those funerals, that's 340 arrangements a year, whether it's just an arrangement or a casket spray or the standing sprays.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, that's a lot. And that's nine and a half funerals per month.

SPEAKER_02

I think I just assume because I've gone to, you know, how you go to funeral homes for visitation and uh or like small a lot of funeral homes have a room where you can have uh a funeral there, right? If it's a super small one or whatever. I have memories of going to those, and you're like, shh, there's visitation on the other side.

SPEAKER_00

So there was more than one glory body in the room. They always happen in three, so they have to have the same time.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so I guess I thought they were averaging one a day at least, but maybe it just depends on the years.

SPEAKER_00

I think it depends on the size of the funeral home, right? And the size of your community.

SPEAKER_02

Well, and it depends on how many other funeral homes are in your town, too.

SPEAKER_03

Right, right. I mean, that's an average. So you know, some could have 50, some could have 250.

SPEAKER_04

So exactly.

SPEAKER_00

Interesting, and the other part that I thought was interesting as well is that there are three full-time and four part-time employees per funeral home. Kind of sounds like the flower shop to me.

SPEAKER_01

Three, only three full-time.

SPEAKER_00

Well, if you only have nine bodies a month, ten bodies a month.

SPEAKER_02

That's true. You know, we have, and I'm not gonna mention his name, but he owns a flower shop, he's one of our members, and he works part-time for a funeral home. Drive going to pick up the bodies.

SPEAKER_00

Wow.

SPEAKER_02

So he's but he he doesn't mind it, and he has a great relationship with the people, they use him exclusively.

SPEAKER_03

Um, I think we have a lot of members who have a close affiliation with a funeral home, whether it's another family member that owns the funeral home, someone owns the flower shop, whether they're next door, or they just have that exclusive relationship in their community. Um, there's a lot, there's a lot of similarities in the personal relationships of a funeral director and a flower shop owner with their customers.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I agree. So tell me some of the what was were some of the tips, if there were any, uh, that some of our members were saying, like, how do they use the book or what are they, you know, what is it they love so much about the uh Celebration of Life book or all of that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03

We did have tips. I mean, we were in a webinar, so we needed to teach them something, right, Lori? So Yeah. That's what I'm like, what did they learn? What am I supposed to be learning? Well, we were saying that the goal is more sales, more sales for um their sympathy arrangements and to increase their um sympathy business. So it's the same goal for the funeral home as it is for the flower shop.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. So then we were talking about how how you need to build that relationship and build trust with one another, right? I need to trust my funeral director, he needs to trust me. I think when we talk to both of our members, one of the most important things that they said in that relationship is being available. Make sure that they have your cell phone number, they know how to get a hold of you after hours. Um, Ralph Giordano from Giordano's Floral Creations said that he told his funeral directors, text me at night. You know, if you have something you need for that next day or two days from now, text me at night because I can still order those flowers that night and maybe have them the next day where I might miss a truck, I might not be able to get them in time otherwise. So what you need, you know. That's a pretty close relationship when they're texting you orders at 10 o'clock the night before, you know. And Trish from Canise then was saying the same thing, you know, you need to make sure that you're available to them whenever they need you, you know.

SPEAKER_02

I've had a few conversations with some of our members that um have been trying to develop that relationship with the funeral director. And it's interesting that they they tried and tried and tried. And what sealed the deal was when the funeral director either emailed or called or texted him and said, I need your help. I screwed up, I forgot to order this, or I we this got the thing got sent. Is there any way you can help me the the funerals in an hour? I mean, one of those, and you save their rear end, right? I mean, that is instant friendship because and I know that stinks for a lot of shop owners, but if you're trying to build that relationship and you can be that savior for them, that's all you need.

SPEAKER_00

You know, you're I think that kind of sparked something in me. I remember we had just opened the business and we're just trying to get into that funeral work and Mother's Day, Saturday, they called and said, We forgot to order a casket spray.

SPEAKER_02

Oh my.

SPEAKER_00

We have a family on the way, they'll be here in a half hour.

SPEAKER_02

Can you oh my goodness?

SPEAKER_00

And I was like, Of course, Bud comes to me and I'm like, Yeah, I'm gonna stop everything we're doing right now and do it because that solidified it. It was just crazy because you're like, how one, how can you forget? Right, is what you're thinking, right?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, wow, that's so well, and that's where like your compassion just kicks in. Like, this is a family coming through. Well, right, of course you would do anything you can to make that moment, you know, better for them.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, because there's nothing worse going in and there would be no flowers there. How oh right, that'd be terrible.

SPEAKER_02

You said, I'm sorry, it's Mother's Day, we don't have time for this. Right, right. Because they felt indebted to them.

SPEAKER_00

But that's a great point, Lori. That's really the way that you can make a difference, always be there, always, you know, persistent if somebody else is in that position now and you're persistent and always there and available to help. I think that's what both of our flower click members were saying. That, you know, it's just always being there and ready to go the extra mile.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Were did anybody ask any specific questions, or did you guys have it set up where there was no QA?

SPEAKER_00

There was very little QA, I think. It was interesting though, after we talked, and I and I was having a conversation with someone else, and they were telling me that their sympathy sales were down year over year, just for this first two months of the year, which triggered both of us to talk about. I wonder if there will be a change for the next six months, a dip, because we lost so many people with COVID who were compromised in help. Yeah, that maybe died early. Right, right. I mean, I don't mean to be morbid, but it there might be just a little bit of a dip that we're gonna experience in sympathy because of that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I mean, think about during this last two years, especially five months ago and then prior to that, our members could not keep up with sympathy work. Yeah, that's it was crazy. And and we all we all funk it, right? We all crossed our mind going, is this COVID or is it violence?

SPEAKER_00

For a while they were on hold, right? Because they weren't having funerals, right? And then, you know, kind of that increase. So it was, I mean, with the number of deaths, you wonder if we're gonna see anything different. Right.

SPEAKER_03

Well, and and I can sort of see both sides, like when they couldn't have um funerals or memorial services with large gatherings. I think people were sending more flowers to the house and things like that. But I also think now that you know people are gathering and able to have celebrations. I think people are happy to be back to normal and be sending flowers for the funeral and having the casket sprays and the standing sprays. I think you know, everybody's happier to be able to celebrate someone's life in that way again.

SPEAKER_00

I agree. I think we've seen a really big increase in the appreciation of flowers and what they do.

SPEAKER_03

Let's circle back around to developing the relationship because that's what I was gonna ask.

SPEAKER_02

I was like, so what were the takeaways? Like, if I first of all, I want whoever's listening, if you are not a Flower Click member, just disregard our Celebration of Life book because they are for members only. Um, but it doesn't mean you can't still try to develop a relationship with your funeral director. So, what were those pieces of advice, um, Bonda and Audrey in the program? Like, what's the best way to go? You just show up with cookies or do you what do you what do you do?

SPEAKER_00

Well, they said food was always good, I will have to say. I agree. Chocolates or some kind of food is always good. Make an appointment, be respectful of the funeral home, yeah, funeral director, and make an appointment. Go with something in hand. And in our case, you know, we usually suggest the celebration of life book, but go there and have you know a conversation with them.

SPEAKER_02

And I mean, does that like to be your what your go-to florist or yeah?

SPEAKER_03

I mean, part of it is we were talking about developing that relationship. The funeral director is the one who is face to face with the family most often. So while they're there, they have the undivided attention of the family. They're going through the process of planning the service, and of course, flowers are usually part of that. So they're the ones that are talking with the family about that. You have to establish trust. They already have trust with their customers. So they already um have a relationship with their customers and their community. So most of the time, they're the ones that are taking that order. They're also taking the financial risk of placing that order with the family. So, Bondit, talk a little bit about establishing the business part of it, which could be kind of a sales commission or some kind of structure like that.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Because it really is about the business transaction. So as we just mentioned, because there's cremations which the what they're getting in income is less, and you of course want to increase your sales. So that's becomes like what can they do for you? And as Audrey mentioned, they're there, they have the undivided attention. So you want to try to offer them a commission, or some people were saying it's not just a commission, it's a a volume buying discount. Because think about it, you give your customers a discount if they buy more flowers. Like you have an account with your local hospital. Maybe they have a standing order at you know at $50, but you're giving them $55 or whatever the case is. So you're gonna give them perhaps 20%. Um, some shops are doing 10%, 15%. Uh one flower shop was saying they have to give 30% to be able to get the order. So depends on what it is. Negotiate that with your funeral director. And don't be afraid if your flowers are priced outright, that's not a bad thing. Remember, the uh commission for an uh incoming wire order is 27%. So, you know, it's less than that. If you're giving your staff credit for making the sales in their store, your the credit that's allowed for a salesperson is 7%. Credit card fees are usually 3%, maybe a little less, but that's 10% that you're doing if you're doing it in the store. So there's 20% might sound a lot to some people, but it truly isn't. I mean, for the amount of business that you can gain, it's very little to be able to pay somebody to help you do that.

SPEAKER_02

Right. And they're for I mean, some of the shops I've talked to that are do this, it's just a email. Here's here's what the family ordered. This is, I mean, and you just do it. You don't have to have any of the conversation.

SPEAKER_00

Right. They're doing the sell for you.

SPEAKER_03

One of the things Vonda touched on was pricing. You know, if you're you want to make sure that the pricing of your sympathy products is pro are profitable. We just published the third volume of our Celebration of Life book. And the reason we did that is we increased the pricing. Vonda went through and repriced all of the products in the book with the current um cost of flowers and hard goods, and we just found that it's increased. Obviously, everything in the funeral industry has at this point. But I would just encourage everybody to not only with your funeral home, but also on your website, just take a look at your sympathy pricing and make sure that it's um accurate and profitable for what the industry is. You know, the obviously the funeral homes have increased their prices. Um, and I don't think anybody would question that flowers and flower delivery has increased as well.

SPEAKER_02

You know, you know, some of our members have said because they're part of I don't know, it's called a sympathy store or a tribute store or one of those things. Anyway, well, after Vonda increased the prices on our website, which we had to do, they you know increased it on this store. Quite a few of them got an email or a phone call saying you can't price it that high. And they're like, Oh, yes, we can, and we will, because this is the only way we're gonna make money, you know.

SPEAKER_00

The only way we're gonna stay in business so we can take care of your customers, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So smart business is a little bit of pushback. They wanted them to stay at this low level, and so you know, our advice is no change those because why would you put forth all of that labor and work if you're not gonna make any money on it? There's it's pointless.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly, Lori. Yeah, well, great information. Thanks for thanks for inquiring, Lori. Yeah, no, this was really good.

SPEAKER_02

And I will, I'll go back and watch the recording. I've sent out the recording to a handful of our members. Um, we've we have them so spoiled, they know. Uh I'll just watch the recording.

SPEAKER_00

I had several emails, and I told Audrey this as we were waiting for people to come in, and they're like, is this recorded? I am, I am slammed with funerals. Yes, exactly. We were laughing.

SPEAKER_02

I'm sitting in the hospital, I mean in the doctor's office waiting room, and I'm getting texts from people. I was like, I yes, it's recorded, but I'm not there. Well, Audrey, thank you for popping on in 12-hour notice.

SPEAKER_03

I'm happy to be your last-minute guest anytime.

SPEAKER_02

You're a real team.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, well, that's good to know. We'll put you on our show list.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly. Exactly. So, Audrey, is there anything right now that you just is really inspiring you? It doesn't have to be anything to do with work. Could be the snowflake.

SPEAKER_03

I knew this question, I should have known this was coming. I didn't think about it. Um well, I'll tell you, it it's been a rough couple weeks. My mom has had a little fall and broke her hip, so we're getting her settled into rehab. And this morning I walked into a room, and my brother had been there, and he brought the most beautiful bouquet of orange tulips. Uh and I was just thinking, I just before we started this webinar, there were some tiny little flurries outside. I'm in Cleveland, Ohio, and so we just got hoping that's the last bit of snowflakes, but that was I walked in there and I'm like, yes, spring is coming. It's coming.

SPEAKER_02

Love it.

SPEAKER_03

The promise of spring.

SPEAKER_02

The promise of spring. Amen. That's great. Vonda, what about you? Anything?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I didn't think I was gonna have to do this today, Lori.

SPEAKER_02

Well, well, you're up. You're on.

SPEAKER_00

I'm up. It's it's the sun today because we've had rain for a couple days, and the yard has been like really mushy. Like we got two and a half inches of rain, and there was a tornado about 45 minutes from us. So I'm thankful for the sun and for the safety.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you know, it's funny, Vonda. I always look at your weather. I always too. Now I have it on my own. Nice velper.

SPEAKER_02

Nice. I laugh, Vonda, because I think if we were to go back and listen to every podcast recording of like what's inspiring, this is a sign that you and I are so old. So many of its weather related.

SPEAKER_00

That's probably true.

SPEAKER_02

Like it is, oh my gosh, we've become our mothers.

SPEAKER_00

And what is yours then? Is yours the weather too? Or was that true?

SPEAKER_02

Beautiful day. And the people so mine is probably because Ellie is here with me this week, face to face. She and Tyler. And I mean, by the time this launches, they'll already they'll be back with you. But it's been just fun to work side by side with someone. We actually went on a walk this morning and we didn't take our phones. Ooh. Like, you don't need that, you don't need that. And so I left. And I was like, Mark had his phone though, in case. But it was it was good. It was it re-energized us, and you know, it's amazing what just a little nice little nature walk can do for your mind and your heart and your body and everything. So I think that was inspiring me. Very much. That's great. Well, thanks again, Audrey. Thank you so much for listening to our podcast. We hope you enjoyed spending time with us because we enjoy spending time with you. If you did, make sure you hit that subscribe button or add the business and pleasure of flowers to your Google morning routine or your flash briefing on Alexa. We look forward to seeing you next week.

SPEAKER_00

So please come back and join us and discover how a bit of knowledge and one small change in your mindset can take you to new levels in your life and business.