How to Become a Better Leader with Dr. Nicole Price

Episode 145: It's replay day! This is an excellent interview with Dr. Nicole Price, a training leader,  keynote speaker in leadership development and CEO of Lively Paradox, believes that  that leadership is personal. Her goal is to always balance courage with caring as she helps clients face and overcome the most challenging leadership development obstacles. Lori and Vonda ask questions to help the small business owner better lead in what can be challenging situations. 

Nicole’s technical background enhances her objective approach to solving process problems, flipping dilemmas, and helping people focus on solutions. She prides herself on helping leaders lead well — while honoring who they are as individuals.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Loria, you ready for a little break?

SPEAKER_02 0:10

I am, and I'm excited because you know, a couple weeks ago, or was it last week? I don't even know. We did the whole work-life balance thing.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Yes, it's been a little while.

SPEAKER_02 0:21

Conversation, and I was like, okay, you know what? We are allowed to take a week off of podcasting. Is that's a word? I don't know if it's a word.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

It's for for sure, it's a word. And we don't really want to take it off because we have so much information that we can share that we did before, right? So what did you call that?

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Um, it's a replay worth a replay, is what popped up in my mind. Yeah. So I was scrolling through all of the ones we've done. Um, and my gosh, first of all, Von Dasula Fever, we have done a crap ton of these. Like there's so many.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

And sometimes I go back and I look and I'm like, oh my gosh, I remember that. That was so good, right? Yes, like such great information.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Well, and so hence what we're we're gonna be doing today. So when this podcast airs, you're gonna be on vacation. I'm gonna be, I don't call spending a week at my dad's helping him a vacation, but you know, I'm gonna be out of out of commission to an extent. Yes. Um and so we were scrolling, I was scrolling through yesterday, and I'm like, oh my gosh, this one was so good. And I also know we've had so many more followers since a year ago, like so much more that we needed to do a replay.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

We do, and Dr. Nicole Price did a fabulous job. And I actually love to go back and listen to this because she's so inspirational and so real.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

And when she's talking about interviewing and setting up expectations, yeah, that's one of my favorite parts of yeah, especially because just this week I've had two Flower Click members reach out to me about some hiring practices. Um, you know, what do they look for? What are they, and and I I should now that I'm thinking about it, I need to send them this and say, hey, listen to this first. Um before before you even have that one-on-one.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Yeah, great idea. Okay, so let's replay it.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

For those of you listening, Nicole, Dr. Price, is a friend of mine. We met a year and a half ago virtually, I think, just through a a group of people, and we just connected pretty quickly, and I became one of her little uh, I don't know, groupies, I guess we can call it. I'm not sure. Um, so I'm going to read just a very small chunk of her seven-page bio when I clicked on it, Nicole. I see those eyes getting and it said clicky or that C V.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Oh, my curriculum by Thai. You know, that's in academia. If it's not pages and pages long, you haven't done anything.

SPEAKER_02 3:16

Well, yours was pages and pages long, and I was like, dang, she is a big deal. Like, I I knew you were a big deal, but you're a real big deal. So, anyway, this is what you are. You are the CEO of a company called Lively Paradox. You were originally trained as an engineer, which I still can't wrap my head around. Dr. Nicole later found her true calling in leadership development as a keynote speaker, training leader, and CEO of Lively Paradox. She believes that leadership is personal. Her goal is to always balance courage with caring as she helps clients face and overcome the most challenging leadership development obstacles. Nicole's technical background enhances her objective approach to solving problems, flipping dilemmas, and helping people focus on solutions. She prides herself on helping leaders lead well while honoring who they are as individuals, which that is my favorite.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

I absolutely love that. It's hard. You're you don't just teach them. You know, you you take them where they are and you help them lead because everybody has a different starting point, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:30

Yeah, for sure. And I think I'm good at this because I was not good at it. You know, sometimes you meet people and they're so good at something that they don't know how to bring you along. I I just learned a new new craft uh called meditative stitching. And the woman who's teaching me, she's been doing it for years. So she's much better than I am. But what makes her a skilled teacher is that she remembers what it's like to be a beginner. Um, and she remembers when she wasn't great at it. And when I was leading engineers and technical professionals, I thought I was a bad leader. Um, and I thought I was a bad leader because my personality just vehemently disagreed with theirs. You know, the way they like to do things, the way they approach change was just different from the way that I approach change and innovation. But then what I actually came to learn when my executive coach was trying to get me to adjust was that yeah, we all can adjust. And I adjusted very nicely, but then I hated work and didn't like it. My team was happy, but I wasn't. And and so I felt like there just had to be a better way. There had to be a way that we could honor people's individual leadership style and make sure that their folks wanted to come to work and work with them every single day. So, with that, I just say, you know what, maybe you can be a great leader inside a prison complex, and that might work for you, but that doesn't mean that that's going to be the same skills if you are a principal in an elementary school. And both are leaders, and both require different personalities to bring people along. And if we can get people leading in the place where their personality nicely matches, we find more great leaders out there. I believe that.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

So that brings me to my first question. How do you know if you're a leader or not?

SPEAKER_00 6:22

It's real simple. People want to follow you.

unknown 6:27

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

If you look up and nobody wants to follow you, you might be the owner, you might be the manager, you might have the title, but you are not a leader.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

Okay, podcast over, it's done. So let's do that.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

Yeah, just sit in that a minute, right? Just set in that.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

Wow. I never even have thought about that. So by people following you, you're not talking about just, ooh, I have a lot of friends on social media, or I mean, what what does that look like? Like I don't see people, I mean, I get phone calls a lot from people. What does that mean? They're not following me.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Yeah, so um let's just use myself as an example. When I first started my business, I found that it was hard to keep me to keep an assistant. And I was like, oh my gosh, what's wrong with these people? You know, why don't they get it? Or why can't they show the level of energy, passion, and commitment? This is not that complicated. What is going on? And you know, true, that's a that's a place of unhappiness, actually. True accountable leaders go, okay, what can I do to get the type of assistant and help that I need? And when I asked myself that question and started really looking at it, one thing was I was lying to people in the interview. You know, I'm like, oh, this job is not that that not that difficult. Um, it's pretty simple. We don't have emergencies. You know, if you've been an executive assistant, you can do this job. Lie, lie, lie, lie, lie. The truth of the matter is we are doing really hard work that most people don't want to do. And when they call us, they are usually in trouble. Uh so is either suing them or they've had some major snafu around race and equity. And you live in this country, you know what that's like these days. Right, right, right. And so typically they want an urgent response, they want things and then they want things tightened up. If you have worked as an executive assistant in a large organization before, throw all of that away because this is not the kind of situation where you just get to sit at your desk and somebody's gonna tell you exactly what to do. I'm actually really hard to get in touch with. Most days I'm teaching all day. If you need me, you're probably gonna have to come with me on my morning walk. And if you're up for that, if you're up for that, we're gonna work very well together. If you're not up for that, guess what? No harm, no foul. Just, you know, go go about your way. I love you and no. And I found that once I started being really honest in the interview about what was really difficult about the job, and that that was going to have huge benefits in the way that we're changing the world for the better. Like, I feel like my small firm is making the world more inclusive, more equitable, and more just than we found it. And if I can rally you around that idea, the hard work is worth it. Um, and you're gonna have to get paid well and all that stuff, but it's hard work. And as I started to be honest with people, I started getting the right people.

SPEAKER_02 9:52

Yeah. You know what? God, that's so good because I think of so many flower shop owners. Again, you know, that's who our day-to-day people are, and retention is such a big issue right now. They're trying to hire people, and I know it's not just in our industry, but I've seen some of the ads that they've placed and some of them, and they work so hard to make it look like it's the most fun thing ever. And then they don't understand why after two weeks the person never shows back up.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

If you've been in the back of the house of a florist or a flower shop, it is the leaves all over the place, and yeah, yeah, bows and ribbon and stuff, and stuff is all it is chaotic to come to the front of the house with this beautiful display. Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

And you are on your feet all day, you uh go home with dirty clothes because you've been doing all of the things.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

I think it's good to let people see like a day in the life. I know that it feels like that's you want me to walk somebody around all day and I haven't, I'm not paying them. But what does it cost us when we lose someone and we have to train someone else again? I think spend that day allowing people to see what it looks like, and then decide, hey, are you in? My fault in my turnover was that I was lying to people in the interview. That was kind of number one. Number one, like because you will find people who really fall in love with the reality of what working as a florist is, and those are the people you want. You don't want people who are falling in love with what you put on your marketing materials.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

Yeah, yeah. No, that's a really good point. That's not the job, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:43

There was one that had in their ad the hardest job you'll ever love. Yeah, and I thought that was good. You know, gave a little bit about it, and that was the hardest job you'll ever love. And I'm like, okay, that is true. That is that is true.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

Yeah, I do like the idea, and I do know a shop actually here in Houston, and she does this. You know, they'll have the first interview, and she always makes sure that of course it's in the flower shop because she wants them to see the reality. And then the next time she has them come in again and she lets them know, hey, you're gonna be here for two hours. I don't think she pays her. I don't know how she does this, but she has the potential employee actually walk through a little bit and observe the day-to-day. Um, because she found when she does that, the person that does choose the job is gonna stay a lot longer than the person that just came in and did the one quick interview and she was hired, and then they realize, oh my gosh, you know, and they don't ever show back up. So um, all right, my next question are there different types of leaders? You kind of touched on this earlier. You might be a great leader in one aspect, but you're not a good leader when it comes to this.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Yeah, the types of leadership personalities, depending on the um industry, do tend to be different. So, as an example, if I am an over-the-top extrovert, I probably don't want to lead a writing team at a magazine. Right, yeah, I mean, that's just basic. If I am a very direct communicator, not that I don't value tact, but I value honesty maybe more than tact, I probably won't work as a preacher in a large congregation. You see, yeah, but I that work out really well in a manufacturing facility. And so one of the first things that I ask leaders to do is to take a leadership personality assessment to figure out what their leadership style is. Because if you don't do that, then what you will tend to do is think that everyone else should approach change and conflict the way that you do, and that couldn't be further from the truth. And once you know yourself really well, for me, what it does is let me see where there are gaps in my leadership style. So my number two person has pretty much all the stuff I don't have. Yeah. And and I value his perspective. It now it does make things a little harder, right? Like when we're trying to figure out which direction to go with the team on something, you know, sometimes he's a little more, I would call him more of a servant leader, um, where he's here for you, and I am more of a I would say inspirational. I can rally people around an idea, uh a theoretical idea, but I need someone who can help like bring that idea, you know, make the pie, pie in the pie idea. How do you implement that? I need that person, and if I don't know that I need that person, then execution will always be flawed. I've got, yeah, and entrepreneurs are amazing idealists, they're the people who leave corporations and say, I can start this thing on my own. Usually that person is not the person who knows how to execute flawlessly and create process so that when we're let's just talk about onboarding new talent. What is it that every person who starts the organization needs to know? And can we make sure that they know that every time? And that we never skip that step, no matter how busy we are. And that operationalizing of the business is how people grow. And what you brought to the table being a visionary, a visionary leader is important, but it can be very disruptive when we're trying to figure out how to get the mundane day-to-day done.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

Yeah, you have to take the vision and then have somebody to execute it and come up with the operation to make it actually happen.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

You've got it, and it's like I'm pie in the sky, rubber meets road.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

Yeah, it reminds me of one of our members who she's a great leader. She has a very low turnover rate, her employees leverage, but she had to bring somebody on, and she hadn't done it in a while, and she realized she had so many assumptions on what she just assumed they should have already known. And the employee quickly showed a lot of frustration, and like, I'm, you know, she has enough self-awareness to realize it. And so she talked, she's like, I don't, I don't know what you mean when you say that. She's like, Oh my gosh, I just assumed everyone knew how to process carnations or how like she was missing all of those steps. Uh, and so she she went and chatted with a manager and was like, Hey, you need to be the one to do this because you're way more detailed than me. I'm gonna mess it up. I'm gonna have this girl not ever want to come back ever again, right? Because you just assume why don't you know that?

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Well, and acronyms are really where we get stuck in my industry. We got lots of acronyms: D E I, J D E D I, Reddy, and somebody new is like, what does that mean? And those of us in in the industry, you know, that's just part of our language, and that's a good way to make someone feel excluded early. Yes, it is. Yes, it is, and we don't want that, nobody wants to feel excluded early.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

No, so this goes back to your bio. You say you help clients face and overcome the most challenging leadership development obstacles. And I was like, Well, in your industry, what have you noticed are like the two most challenging? Like that, it doesn't surprise you. Every time you meet with a new client or company, you're like, Yeah, you're gonna have this problem, you're gonna have this problem.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Well, I'll attach it to what you just said. I'm so surprised by what people don't know. And and I think leaders need to understand that every time they hire someone, that person is coming with a set of competencies that are gonna be valuable to their organization and some gaps. Everybody. So while even you might be super excited, if I came to work for you today, Laura, you'd be like, oh my gosh, I got Dr. Price, she's coming to work for me. This is gonna be great. It would be great, yeah, for the things I'm great in. But I'm gonna have some leadership gaps. I'm gonna have some gaps in performance once I come to your organization. I've never worked there before. And leaders want people to not have gaps, they don't want to have to do development. And we have normalized development in our firm so much, everyone has a personal development plan. Everyone's talking about what they want to do, you know, in the next 12 months, but also in the next three years. And my job as a leader is if they are nowhere on the spectrum for being able to get to where they want to go, is to help them close those gaps. That's my job. But leaders think their jobs are mostly functional, running the business. And it's like, nope, if people are wanting to follow you, you are developing the people. Yeah, you are helping them leverage their strengths and make it so that their gaps in performance are at least not derailers, or if they want a job and they have a gap that's going to prevent them from getting there. I'm helping to close that gap. That's my job. Leadership development is the leader's job, and that's one where I think sometimes we don't get that. We don't get that. We think people are supposed to come to us ready, no, ready to go. And sometimes, and in a in a really tough market, it is just much easier to develop the talent you need than to go out here and try to find it.

SPEAKER_02 20:12

I agree. Totally. I Vonda, don't you think? Um, especially in these last 18-19 months, a lot of our flower click members have realized it is easier to find desire, right? Skill or will. Is it do they have the skills or do they have the will? Sometimes the will to want to work there and be a part and to learn holds a lot greater value. They may be somewhat skilled, meaning they have some experience, but sometimes it's better to get them where they're really pliable and open-minded and want to learn and grow.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

You have to have a growth mindset though. I think you have to believe that you can teach people most things. And sometimes we want to think that, oh, you know, the ability to creatively see a floral design is you're just born with it. You either have it or you don't. And they're I think the things that we're we either have or we don't is a very small number of things. If I can teach empathy, you can teach me how to put the bouquet together. Stop it.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

That is a very good point. That's a very good point. Um, okay, so I want to touch on what we talked about employee retention. It's a big issue. It's a big issue right now for whatever reason. People can't find people that want to work, or when they do, they don't last long. What is your advice to? I'm gonna I'm gonna narrow down to a flower shop owner that's running a brick and mortar flower shop. What's your advice to them on the best things they can do to retain the employees they have?

SPEAKER_00 21:54

Well, first I would ask a question. What's your mission? Why are you doing this? And I would ask that because if you can't tell me right away, how do you think you're going to inspire anybody else around your idea? If if you don't know why you're doing it, then how do you think somebody else is going to be excited about showing up on Monday or Saturday or right before big wedding season or Mother's Day to do this hard work for you? And I think this is especially important when you do when you have really challenging work, is to not focus so much on what you do. We provide flowers for these people are these people are during these times. The what there are a million people who are doing what you do, but why you do it? I buy Starbucks coffee and it's not the best. Like in a blind taste test, it's not gonna win. It never does. Something like Folgers, I think, wins when I'm doing the blind test. Right, right. But why do I buy Starbucks coffee? Because they inspire the human spirit one cup at a time, or whatever. Yeah, when I walk in, I feel inspired one cup at a time. Like it's just and it makes no sense, and we have to tap into people's emotion. Yeah, yo, you're in. I'm we but we believe you. We believe you it's like you know, we think retention is people don't want to work. Listen, I have convinced myself that everybody wants to wake up every day and make a contribution to the world. I've convinced myself of that. If somebody looks lazy to me, it is to me, for almost everybody, it is they have just not been inspired around an idea.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Wow. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

And for those of us who think we just wake up every day and I'm just inspired, actually, there's probably points in your in your past history where you've been able to contribute in a way that has been important and you just overlook it. You just think it's normal. You think, well, that's just how it is. But somebody probably caused you to think that way based on how they poured into you. Your paycheck is not enough. I can go work at the gas station and get $15 an hour.

SPEAKER_02 24:14

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

So pay people a living wage, that's bare minimum. But then how are you inspiring someone around your why? Why are you doing this? Like, as I said, our company, what do we do? We help difference get along. That sounds fabulous. But to decide to leave the world more equitable, more just, and more inclusive than we found it, that's a special person who's like gonna be like, ah, yes, I want to do that. And if I can articulate that just as plainly as I just did to you, the people who want to do that are going to come. And so I would tell every single flower shop owner to be very clear about their why. You can't just be like, Well, this was my grandpa's flower shop and I took it over.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

Nice for you and your family, but I'm not excited about right.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

I'm not seeing your vision. I'm not feeling your.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

No, I'm not seeing your love and how excited you are about this. Um, so one, I'd say start with why. Uh number two, I say, you know, many people will tell you to look at exit interviews, and I'm not a fan of that actually. And our team, I say the people who work for you are the ones who should get your love, the ones who decided to stay. Now let's look at the people who decided to stay, and let's ask them, what do you think about our flower shop is working? And this is where the leader has to be very self-disciplined because you get all excited when somebody's telling you what's working, and you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the flip side of that is okay, now I need you all to be very honest with me and tell me where we're getting stuck. What causes you sometimes on Friday to say, I don't know if I'm coming back? Like if you've ever thought that, what are those things? Let's talk about those things. And then together with the team, let's think about if there's anything we can do about it. And if so, what would that be? And let's start implementing it together. Because you are the leader, you are not the only. You have a team of people, whoever those people are, even if they're volunteers, even if there's if it's your cousin Joe. How can you help people feel involved in the process and feel like they have shared ownership to an outcome? And those two things, starting with why, and then also being really, really open to feedback from the people who are on the team who keep showing up, those two things are powerful in terms of retention. Now that's that's easy and simple for me to say. Now do it.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

So I have a question. I've been in the floral industry for years, and everyone that is in the floral industry, I should say almost everyone in the floral industry, and I think Lori can attest to this, they're filled with emotion. Flowers are a sign of emotion, they change mood, send hugs, right? It celebrates life from celebrations to sorrow, and it conveys those messages. Business owners love to elevate others with flowers. So I know one common personality trait is compassion. And so I ask you, is it challenging for a good leader to be that good leader and at the same time be filled with compassion for others? Because I think sometimes it's like, oh, I don't want to tell them that because I might hurt their feelings. I might, I don't want to step on any toes. So I want to be really careful on how I, you know, do this or do that.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

I'm so glad you asked that question. Because this comes up often in what I call the caring professions. I think education, healthcare, religion, nonprofits. And when you have really nice people who are leaders, I think that's actually an asset, but there's a distinction. Empathy is understanding, compassion is being motivated to help, both two good things. But what I find in the helping professions is what people are practicing is sympathy, feeling sorry for. Yeah, and there is a difference. So we just had a conversation yesterday about wealth privilege and how let's say I have somebody on my team and they have a you know really hard financial situation. Sympathy goes, oh my gosh, that is just so terrible. And I lower the bar in terms of what the job requires. I demand more of other people to take over for that person because they're not delivering. Empathy is I understand that there are some unique challenges. So let's just say uh you have a flat tire and you work for me and you you're not making a lot of money, that could really keep you from getting to work on time, right? That could definitely be getting to work on time. But if I'm running a large outfit and I got a lot of people that that's happening to, in what way can I help organize a carpool where I'm the one who pays for the van? Right. Or in what ways can I offer if I know I'm expecting people running all around town? Why am I reimbursing for mileage instead of offering a car? And I understand that some of these things might be financially not possible, but what I want the listeners to think about is how can I open up to say, how can I work with a person shared together to get them the support they need to be able to show up and do their job effectively? Because that's good solid leadership. Me allowing you to step down instead of up is actually not helpful to you at all. And another thing I like to point out about the folks in the caring industry, it's not that we're not addressing it because we'll talk about people behind their backs, and that's the least caring thing you can do ever. Wow, we got to talk about it with the person who is involved. So behind the back criticism, I can guarantee you is never going to help any situation. And it's I would argue that it's the least compassionate thing you could ever do.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

Yeah, that is you talked about that today a little bit when you were talking about resentment and you know how it doesn't help anybody but the two examples. Oh, filter free Friday on Filter Free Friday, which I know not everybody watches, and I started writing it down. You were saying, why do we align ourselves with the people that are like, yeah, go over for you, for you, for you, but then turn around and they're the ones gossiping behind your back. Yet we don't like the people that come straight to us and are direct and ask a true, honest, in our face question.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

One thing that I say for leaders who um, I'm not gonna say over-index on compassion, but that is like your your leadership style is to be compassionate, is to really think about what I can do to help. That's the question. What can I do to help? And understand that helping is never gossiping, it's never back channeling. Whenever we pull a whole bunch of people together and we're talking about another person, that's a danger zone. That's a danger zone. That person should be in the room and we should, you know, share our concerns through the spirit of helping to say, okay, how can we fix this? How can we resolve this issue together? And um, that's one of the major, major challenges I see with compassionate leaders. It's the we have a problem, we need to resolve it. And instead of addressing it, I think I'm being nice, and what I am actually being is uh quite mean.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

Yeah, because that's what happens so many times that a lot of these people are underperforming, let's say, right? So instead of me addressing that and saying, you know what, gosh, we really have to, you know, get you up to speed. Then I just like let it happen, and then I'm boiling inside because I've let this happen, and it's really my fault as a leader not to address the problem, but I feel like I'm being compassionate because I don't want to hurt the feelings.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

Think about how you would feel if you knew that you weren't performing and everybody else knew it too, and they just let you continue. If you're doing something detrimental to the team, um, I get to ask this question every week of my life if you're doing something detrimental to the team and I know it, how likely is it you want me to tell you on a scale of one to ten? And people are like, please tell me. But then how we act when someone else is doing something detrimental to the team is we're like, yeah, I don't know how you're gonna take it, you know? And it's it's like, no, true compassion is showing up with other people the way we want them to show up for us, and I'm not gonna tell anybody that it's the most comfortable thing to do, it's not, it's going to be uncomfortable, and leadership courage is a requirement of business ownership.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

That's good, that's really good.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

And what I say to people is you know, what I don't want you to think is that I don't want you to work here because I do, like I value you, I do not give token niceties, I list the real things that I would lose if that person weren't able to work with me anymore. Yeah, but what I do want you to think is that the fact that you can't get these details nailed down is is going to cause a major problem. And so I want to work with you to figure out how we can figure this out. And I just had a situation like this recently. Delightful person, delightful, and my goodness, the details, she just mess them up, and it and sometimes when you miss out on those details, I mean, one of her errors was like 30 grand. Oh wow, yeah, we caught one that would have been 86 grand. We caught it. And so my conversation with her was okay, you know, what do you need? Like, what do you need? And when she said what she needed, we made some different changes to some processes to help. We did some shadowing with another person who had had the job before, gone, and I paid for that, and then I'm checking in with her every week, and then it she still wasn't getting it. And so we had a conversation. I said, Hey, these are the three things we have done, and I feel like you want to do a great job, and I don't know what I'm missing out on now. And her response was, I just need to tighten up, and I said, Okay, so in six months, that has not been a sustainable strategy, and so I think that at this point, now what we what we have to do is to separate, but by the time we got there, she was so clear, right? Like, wow, yeah, we had so many conversations, I had done so much work, she had tried many things, and it just wasn't working out, yeah. And that made the conversation easier because I had done everything I possibly could, really. Yeah, the reason I tell that story is because I think we have to ask ourselves did we do all we could before we get to termination, or before we get to irritation, or before we get to the, you know, talking about people behind their backs, did we do our part? Did we have the conversation, or was it more likely what we did was we had the conversation in our head, or hugely compassionate people will I say put a lot of pillows around things? Nicole, it's fabulous that you were on time. And oh my gosh, your hair looks amazing, and you're always so good at extemporaneously speaking. But the conversation we're not having is Nicole, are you meditative stitching while we're doing this call?

SPEAKER_02 36:19

And I think yes, yeah, we call that a compliment. Yes, and those are never works when you start with a compliment and then you pepper in. Oh, you've been late five days in a row, but oh my gosh, we love your new hair, it's so cute. That employee is gonna leave just knowing they love my hair, it's so cute. They didn't even hear the stop being late or we're gonna fire you.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

They don't even hear it, yeah. And so I would just say I also use affirming language when I'm talking to people who are very compassionate. So instead of stop being late, I'd say I need you to be on time. So ask for what you want instead of what you want people to stop doing. That's usually a lot easier for my compassionate leaders to do. And we make it a habit of every time we have a team meeting, we talk about what worked, where we got stuck, and what we want to do differently. We don't do that just when things go poorly, we do that after every major event. What worked, where do we get stuck, what do we want to do differently? It builds in this growth mindset that we all can get better, that the organization's getting better, leaders getting better, which is where we have to also have thick skin as leaders. You can't be getting all sensitive when somebody gives you feedback. You know what I'm saying? I see Von just shook our head up and down. That's right. If you got to get feedback and receive it, then take it, like you got to model what this looks like for other people.

SPEAKER_02 37:43

I just wrote those down. That's really, really good, even for us flower clicks. I didn't put titles to it, but we do that after we do a big launch. We'll come back, and my brain is always going there. Like, what was good about it? God, what do we need to do better? Even if we might not be launching it for another year, you know. We just had that meeting, Vonda, with our with our prep schools and things going, we got to do things different, ladies. Here's where I messed up, here's where the confusion was. Like, and no one's if you if you approach those kind of meetings, even if it as a whole staff, no one's in trouble. These are really healthy meetings, right?

SPEAKER_00 38:25

And these are great that comes from my engineering, it's called an after-action review. But what we learned was that most people only want to do after-action reviews when things go poorly, yeah, that's true. So when it goes bad, we're like, hey, let's let's debrief this thing. But when it's amazing, everybody's like, yay, let's have cake next. Yeah, and we need to start with study success in the same way we study failure. When we do it great, we need to study that thing. And I will also tell you, eat your own cooking. If you are in the flower business and you send people flowers for when things go well, why don't we get flowers if I work on your team? You don't have to send me this huge bouquet. I got this one. I'm gonna show you this one I saw my desk, it's all dead right now. But this little thing, somebody sent that to me, and I just loved it. You know, I'm gonna try to protect the guilty here, but there's a company I used to work for, and they're in the personal expressions business, they help people give gifts, and now they're not giving out gifts for anniversaries internally anymore. And I'm like, if you're in the gift giving business, you need to give gifts. I don't know if you can make it smaller, you can make it less expensive, you can simplify the process, you can let people pick out their own gifts. I don't care, but if you're in the gift giving business, you need to give gifts. And so if you're in the flower business as part of your like standard practice, I don't think of it as a benefit. If you think flowers enrich people's lives, then use flowers to enrich people's lives for your staff.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

So Vonda does that, she sends us flowers.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

So, Lori, let me know if you need my address to send me some flowers for you.

SPEAKER_02 40:09

I will send you. I feel like we could talk for two hours. Um, yeah. My last question. It's a question I have to I have to ask. It's in my contract. I don't have a time. What is inspiring you? And you might have already said it. What is inspiring you right now, Nicole?

SPEAKER_00 40:31

What is inspiring me right now? I think that what is inspiring me right now are the people who still find the silver lining in the middle of all of what seems to be falling apart around us. It is so easy to get caught up into us and them, and this is right and that is wrong, and uh, you get to see it around all kinds of things: mask, whether we should be at war or not, whether people should get unemployment or not, you know, all kinds of things.

SPEAKER_02 41:06

Everything, everything.

SPEAKER_00 41:07

But the people who can bring folks together around a shared idea, whoever that is, are really inspiring me right now. And I'm I'm really tapping into those people because I think they're gonna be the savior for us all.

SPEAKER_02 41:20

Yeah, I love that. I love that. Really good. Thank you so much for listening to our podcast. We hope you enjoyed spending time with us because we enjoy spending time with you. If you did, make sure you hit that subscribe button or add the Business and Pleasure of Flowers to your Google morning routine or your flash briefing on Alexa. We look forward to seeing you next week.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

So please come back and join us and discover how a bit of knowledge and one small change in your mindset can take you to new levels in your life and business.