Leadership Lessons: Five Dysfunctions of a Team

Episode 159: Lori and Vonda give an overview of the book "The Five Dysfunctions of a Team" by Patrick Lencioni which discusses the pitfalls and challenges a leadership team faces and discuss how these directly relate to a retail floral business. Focusing on negative is not what this is episode is about ~ it's about knowing the pitfalls as to avoid them! 

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Real Life Retail Florist

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:03

In attention to results, this is defined as focusing on personal success, status and ego before team success.

Speaker 2 0:18

Welcome

Speaker 1 0:19

To the business and Pleasure of Flowers. We're your host, Von La Fever and Lori Wilson . And we believe that business and fun are a perfect combination, kind of like us Vonda . <laugh>. Good morning, Von La Fever. Good morning, Lori Wilson . So, you know how we talked about when we were planning our podcasts for 20 23, 1 of the things that , uh, we thought would be fun, because I love to read, is , uh, book talk . Right? So I would read a book, I would try to convince you why you should read it. Yes . Right? And at the end you'll either go, yeah, I'm gonna read it, or, or you probably go, yep . Just ordered it on Amazon, or, no, thank you. So this is this talk. Today's gonna be kind of a hybrid. Okay. Because there is a book out there, and it's a short book, but I would like for us to read it together. Hmm . Okay. Kind of like a little study. And it is called Lessons on Leadership Reflections from The Five Dysfunctions of A Team. So the title is The Five Dysfunctions of A Team. So the book is fiction, so it's kind , but yet Okay . I would call it realistic fiction. And it's kind of like , um, laid out almost like a comic book. So there's a lot of stuff in it . Anyway, I think it would be, so I'm gonna tell you the dumb down version of what is in the book, and we're gonna talk about it. Okay. And again, like you and I do, every thing we read, every note we take, we're filtering it through the lens of a flower shop owner or a florist of some sort. Right? Yes. So let me back up just a minute. When you said it's short and it's comic book , like I'm, I'm like in more as you know, because it , I know . I'm , I'm so with you. You know, we're reading, I'm rereading the Mindset book, which is so good, but I'm like, God , so many words, so many words in , in kinda small print. And it's a little struggle for me, but I'm, I'm working on that one just cause it's very small print. I'm with you. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> when I read it, I don't know, eight years ago my eyes were better. I didn't notice it was small print . I , I'm not kidding you . I feel like I need to be in where my mother was at assisted living because they had all large print books and maybe they make this in a large print. I love a good , I have a large print by . Yes. It was my mom . I love the large print . I know . Here we get , the more we need the large print <laugh> . Okay . All right . That's a whole nother conversation . So key points Okay . Of the book, the , according to this book, the Five Dysfunctions of a Team. So the team we're referring to a flower shop owner and their employees, their team. Okay . Got it. Number one, the absence of trust. So it says, this is defined as the unwillingness to be vulnerable within a team. This is not talking about just the owner, however it starts with them. Right, right . Modeling, it's talking about the rest of the team too. Team members are worried that others will use their vulnerabilities against them. Oh my gosh. That hit me. Because whether it's professional or personal life, that is a fear I always have. If I divulge one of my flaws, which there are many, is that person I'm divulging it to going to come back and say, oh, well remember you said you weren't good at this. You're not. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, that's very good . So teams , uh, team members hesitate to open up about their fears or their concerns about a project. What I see happening in flower shops is they don't feel like the owner is approachable. So they get to a point where they convince themselves, you know what? I can find another job somewhere else. Everybody's hiring and they just leave. And the poor business owner has no idea why they left. Like they're shocked. Yeah. I think a lot of team members or like designers, maybe that's a designer assistant or depending on your job situation, they feel like they're not as good as the others on the team. And so sometimes they just back up and don't wanna contribute because they feel like what they have isn't good enough, which goes into the trust. Then they don't trust their feelings and they maybe see something they're like , Ooh , I wish I could say that. But I don't feel like I am in the place that I can contribute to that because again , they could be used against 'em . Exactly. This reminded me of, I don't know how many years ago , uh, I think four years ago when we, you and Ellie and I, we were doing a session at s a F and I was telling this story about teaching my son to ride the bicycle. Yes. Right. And how you hold on and you hold on until, and then you let go and you know, they're gonna fall a couple of times, they're gonna fail and they're gonna get wounded and they're gonna, you know, but if you go into this modeling, Hey, I want you to now do your dozen roses. Show me how you do a dozen roses or whatever, you know, they're gonna fail. It's, it's all in how you approach that. Because if you constantly criticize them or micromanage them, they're not gonna , they're not gonna feel that you trust 'em at all. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> . And you don't stay in a job very long. I feel like your boss doesn't trust you. Right. And that's when you are feeling the most vulnerable when you're designing in front of your peers who have more experience or your boss. And so, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Um, number two, this one's I get it. Uh, fear of conflict . Mm . A lot of shop owners, they're like, I just don't wanna deal with it. There's a lot of drama that goes on in their store and they just kind of hide and retreat. So , um, <laugh> , I like what the book said. It says, this is defined as seeking artificial harmony over constructive, passionate debate. Um, the, the picture I have in my head is when I get on social media and I see like some of my friends who have the perfect Christmas card or the perfect vacation, or the perfect this and the perfect that I'm like, that's likely artificial harmony. Yeah . Because they have to have something going on in their lives . I know. I love the Christmas cards where the kids are like looking or they're like making faces at one another. Cause I'm like, that is real. Yeah . That is real. Exactly. Exactly. So team members are worried about retribution or political consequences, political meaning policies within the store. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> , thus team members end up being political. They choose their words and actions based on how they want others to react, rather than how they really think goes back. Isn't that interesting? Cuz it goes back to the trust, right. And then the conflict . It's like you don't want to be the one who I'm gonna tell you what you wanna hear. Yeah . You know, Camie and I have talked about this before because we both have a level of nine on the Enneagram and nine are people pleasers mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And you have to be very self-aware if you're a people pleaser because you do tend to say what you think that person wants to hear and not truly what you feel. And so you, you've gotta guard against that cuz that doesn't really help anybody. No, it doesn't at all. And especially you then you get, if you're not really being honest Right. And you're want telling 'em what they wanna hear, then you're conflicted and you're like, oh , you're conflicted. And then they have this false sense of, Hey, I'm really, it'd be like you saying Lori , you really are a great designer. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> man that doesn't , roses is beautiful. And in my eyes I'm like, really? It it , you're giving , it's not because I don't see it as beautiful, but that's an exaggerated Sure story. But you know what I mean. It's, we're, we're not doing any favors by not addressing the conflict. Especially a business owner, you have conflict among your team. You've got to sit down with them and have those conversations. But it's really hard. Let me tell you, as a former owner, and yeah , you watch this conflict sometimes going on in the store, right. There's maybe an undercurrent or a conflict and nobody wants to address it, especially the owner. Right? Right. You have to like step up. I mean, I had that a couple of times and it's like, man, you just kinda look and then you're like, you , you turn away cuz you were like, I don't wanna deal with this, I don't wanna deal with this . Yeah . But you have to step in as my friend Marie would say, put on your big girl panties and go up there and do it. And you just have to say, Hey, you know, the two of you, I hear this going on, I'm watching this, let's talk about it. Let's take care of this conflict right now. And as hard as it is, you've gotta do it. And then afterwards everybody's in a better space. Yeah. One , one thing, and I don't know if this was the right thing to do, probably not, but I was tired. So when I taught middle school, you know, I was also the cheerleading coach mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And it was one of my favorite things in the world to do because middle school girls and their drama just cracks me up . Oh geez . So here's the thing. There would be like backstabbing, you know, on the squad and I, I'm a pretty self-aware, I could see what's going on. So what I would do is I would pick, there was always the same two culprits I knew, like they are sort of the leaders and you know, the whole dynamic. I had it figured out. I would take those two girls during a practice, I would put 'em in my classroom, shut the door and say, you will not come out until you figure it out because we're not having this negativity re because I could see people taking sides . Yeah . But I think it worked because I would go in like, after 10 minutes, we good. What are we, what's going on now? And by the end it was fine and they'd come back. No more drama at least for that practice. Right , right . Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So as hard as it was, I didn't necessarily need to be involved in the mediation of it depend , depended on what it was about . But many of the times I'm like, you guys, you too go in here because you're toxic for the rest of the team. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I think we can use that same model with adults <laugh> when there's conflict. Right. I don't know about throwing 'em both in , in the same room. Sometimes I could be, somebody's gonna walk out <laugh> . Right, right. Well, and again, I know, I knew , I knew what I was doing with a lot of these girls. Yeah . Um, and a lot of it was, which I think it could be employees feelings were hurt and I knew forgiveness needed to happen in there before we could move on. Um, it never escalated. Like if they were like knocked down, drag out fighting, of course I wouldn't put 'em in there. But a lot of times you hit that just right when you said feelings are hurt. And that's usually where it is . Mm-hmm . <affirmative> . Right. And, and you're afraid to, it goes back to our vulnerability. Right. You're afraid to share with the rest of the team that you got your feelings hurt from what she said. So you turned that into anger. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and you get everybody mad at them . It's just, and then the conflict is , you know, the Right . Yeah . Anyway, I don't do that anymore with, I do miss my girls though. I miss middle school. They were my people. Um, lack of commitment. This one. Ooh . Yeah . This was runs rampant through our industry with the revolting door. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> of employees that some shots have for sure. And yeah. Yeah. It's defined as the state of ambiguity throughout the organization. So many employees are just there for the paycheck and they really don't care. Uh , did you ever have anyone like this? You know what, I didn't. I would have to say I really didn't. I was, we were very blessed to have a team that mm-hmm . <affirmative> really were committed. You know, it's like Yeah. And , but I think it comes down to open communication too. Right. So when um, you let them know when they need to be there, why that? And let them know why they're important. And it's, it all comes down to the culture, right. Because if you have a good culture and they see that other people are committed and they wanna be part of that, I see this more with big flower shops that have a lot of employees. Yeah . Like 10 or more because maybe you're not as, you don't use as much discrepancy when you're interviewing at that moment cuz you need bodies. Um, so maybe you don't, you know, touch on all of those super important things. So you're gonna hire a couple people just because their parents said, Hey, you gotta go get a job. Or you're not living here anymore. You know what I mean ? Employees you want. Right. Woo . Right. Right. And there's a lot of those out there, but the , the smaller to medium shops, I notice at least, I'm just thinking of our flower click members. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they don't have nearly the turnover rate . Mm-hmm. <affirmative> . Well you can see why a lack of commitment causes a totally dysfunctional team. I mean, cuz you have some people who are committed and then you have others who aren't and, and then <laugh> , it rolls back into the other, that's the whole crazy thing about this book . And the whole team notices when someone really doesn't care or , um, is apathetic. And then that bitterness or that that's unfairness happens when you as a team are going to decide on something and they get to have say in it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, and they're like, why, why do we get to accommodate her schedule? So what do you do about that though? If there's lack of commitment? Do you, and I'm saying that question to both of us. So what, you know, what would you do Vanda if one of your employees you noticed, you know what they're , they just don't seem to be available or they don't seem to be, they seem to be often another world that's send , that's a conversation, right. You bring 'em in to your office or you, you know , take 'em to lunch, which is hard to do in this business. So I'd take him in the office and I say, Hey Laurie , you know, I can see that your mind is somewhere else. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> , you don't seem like you're like really keyed into what's going on here. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> , what is it that , um, you're thinking about or what can we do to make it better for you? Yeah . So put it back on them . Right . And then maybe give them some goals. I think really trying to focus in it , what I see you doing here would be this and how can we help you achieve that? Because you could be a very important part of this team if we can get your focus in back into. Right. So I think the , it's , it's a conversation and not about you're doing this wrong. You're exactly right. We have to be cautious because they're probably right at that cusp of I'll just be , I'm just outta here. So I would, my answer would be exactly like yours. Except I would also ask, what is it you love? What made you wanna come work here and try to put that person in a position mm-hmm. <affirmative> that they kind of sometimes be able to f let's, let's say they love scrolling on their phone or they love photography and I know we use that as an example, but give them as part of their job, Hey, I want you to go into the design room. I want you to take some pictures. Here's our Instagram account. You know, do this mm-hmm . <affirmative> , but then also I need you to wash buckets. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, so you give 'em a little bit of what they love and are passionate about. Yeah. You know, they're incentivized to do the rest of the stuff cuz they love that part of their Yeah . That's it. I think that's why many times they're, they're not being accountable or they don't wanna be a part of it . You mentioned accountability, so that's the next thing is avoidance of accountability. So this is defined as acceptance of low standards for the deliverables. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> . Um, my , when I read this one, my first thought was, you know, the flower shops that I know they wouldn't, they wouldn't be able to put up with this. I mean, low standards of deliverables of what you have. Like you're gonna get dinged on the Google if <laugh> many times Right. On the ratings if you don't hold your designers accountable . Yeah. I mean, accountability all the way down. Right. Even down to that delivery driver. If the delivery driver, the delivery out in the rain or out in the snow and you know, all of that. Which again, it's the Google reviews or the Yelp reviews, whichever it is . Right. All right . The last one is in attention to results. This is defined as focusing on personal success status and ego before team success. Ooh , this happens a lot in a flower shop . I do think it, it's more when somebody is their own brand and but you have to Right, right . You, you have to put, have a big ego to put yourself out there. Um, but this went on to say that team members invest valuable time and energy in the politics of self-protection. Thus team members focus on making themselves look good and place self-preservation over the team's interests. Again, it goes back Fonda , it's all who is your leader. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah . What are they modeling? You know, I, I think about you in Flower Click and every day you're putting something out there. Great job Ellie, or great job lo like you're constantly making sure everyone's such, you never say, look what I did. Look at the profit spreadsheet I made <laugh> . Right, exactly. You know? Yeah. So , yeah . Yeah. That one I agree doesn't usually happen in a shop because if it does, so, so let's say set up a scenario that a flower shop needs a designer. And so then they hire a designer who's really well known and they're coming in , uh, like for freelance , they hire 'em to come in for a holiday and that person is just talking about where they going and what are they're doing and Yeah . Right . And all of that, which can either raise the bar of who they're de designing with and be like, I wanna learn, I wanna design like her so that I can get to know this. Or it can make them feel really small. So it could go either way. So sometimes it does help the team other times because of the inattention to what's happening as far as the boss watching this and see the , the, what do I wanna say? You could see the self worth of the other designers going down because oh, she's coming in and she's faster than I am and she does more makes a design . Oh, I would be very threatened if I was a designer to been there six years and you bring in Jenny Thomason to work here part-time, like Right, right. Talk about, you know, but, but you could be either way. Right. Because if , because the Jenny's Jenny would be one who would say, oh my gosh, Lori . Exactly . She would make me feel like I was a superstar. Exactly . You know , so that would be the difference. I would be like you said, I'd be threatened or I'd be right . Feeling like, oh, I'm not worthy to be here working with her, but Right . Could go either way. So I would challenge anyone that is in a position of where a new , uh, designer, especially not really a salesperson, this would be a designer or if they've hired on a new manager mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, somebody that's gonna be potentially above you or even at your level to take a step back and instead of worrying, oh , you know, now I'm gonna have to compete , think of, wow, I'm gonna be able to learn new things right from this person. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right. What am I gonna be able to learn mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Because changing your mindset to growth instead of fix Yes . Is really gonna take a lot of pressure off of you. Yeah. I love that word . I mean it's , it's huge when you can look at that because if you're learning Right, and you're watching, you might even be able to contribute something to Exactly . Exactly. And I think when you do that, you how you treat them. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> is way, way better. And they're gonna lean in because they might be a little nervous. Again, going back to Jenny, if she was to come in to work, the first thing that would be in the forefront of her mind is, I hope we can all get along <laugh> . You know, I wanna everybody get , so they're gonna be just as concerned about the relationship as you would. And I've walked into that situation before. You are as a designer, walking into a shop that you've never been into before and you're in high thing , uh, um, there's high expectations of you. So then walking into a shop there would be high expectations. And so you're a little bit nervous, even though you're very confident in what you do, you're not as confident in that situation. So that was both ways. Yeah. So I have a question for you. Um, and this isn't about a shop, but I was thinking about a I F D mm-hmm. <affirmative> , um, when I was through this and I was thinking how, you know, you're always back there helping other designers or there's a whole lot. Is there ever this fear going into that? If you are helping a designer, do you ever feel like, and I mean, I can't imagine cuz you've been a designer for so long, but that would be, if I was a new designer, I would be terrified that I would go back there and they would all judge me. I think it's the communication skills. You know, when you go in there, you know that that person does something totally different than you do. So first off, tell me what you want. I'm gonna start it, and then I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna go, okay, is this the way you want me to do it? Is this so your end result that you want? Ok . So I'm not usually threatened or nervous. I'm excited, like you said, because I have that open mind that Right . It's like I'm open , I wanna learn. Um, one is I wanna learn what they are teaching. Um, but I also want to , I'm not a nine, but I'm want to accommodate and I wanna make sure they're happy with what I'm doing. So Sure. It's both. I , I'm never nervous when I go work into the back, I'm super excited to work in the back of a I d and that's where I are there, are there newer, less seasoned designers that come back there ? All the time? All the time. There's a whole list of volunteers. Like if you wanna go to a I F D symposium and you wanna be a volunteer, you sign up on that list and they will put you in the design room with someone. You might just be sweeping and cleaning up for a while . That's how I started , which is what I Exactly . Then I can watch you , you have that chance to observe and then if you're asking, Hey, can I help you do something? If they need you at that time, boy you're there. So volunteering in the workroom at A I F T or any, you know, state organization, the volunteer position is to me the best place to be. Right? Yeah. So that's, I don't know why, but that's what was going through my mind when I thought about status and ego, because that would be a position I would be fearful of going. I I was intimidated just going into the design room. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> , when Ellie and I went back , all these people are so incredibly talented. Like, and, and you just all knew, I , I think you and Julie were working with, was it Tom Bowling ? I can't remember who all you were , but you guys have been together for so long. Right, right. You kind of knew, like no one was having to tell you how he wanted it or how she wanted it . You just knew. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> , a lot of times when we're working in the workroom, any organization then, for example, when I did my program at aif, f d , bill McKinley brought his students from Texas A and n . Yes . Yes . And they come in really like sheepish and not sure what they're doing, kinda like you're talking about. But once you give them the confidence, say , this is what I want you to do, do this, and then keep checking on 'em, then they're gone. Then, then they feel like they're part of your team. And that's, that's the key. It's like getting rid of the ego, you know, because that does not create a team that, that is dysfunctional. If you are the ego in the room, it's not gonna happen. I will say, do you remember what happened dur in when we were working on your main stage , um, presentation in the room and I was one of your helpers? I I truly was the dysfunction <laugh> ? No, I don't remember. You don't remember this? So you had , um, your daughter-in-law. Erica and I were working on a project. It wasn't, it was some sort of, I don't know what we were doing. I can't remember. It wasn't arranging flowers. You put us on super simple tasks and Julie Polter was back there, el I mean, you know, everyone was working. So you had us in the middle on this thing, and I was so excited. Whatever it was I was using , um, a knife, which, which I don't think you've ever let me use since then. The very first task I did slice my finger, I'm like underneath something and Erica's on top and I go, oh. And I said a word and I look . She goes, oh , <laugh> . I mean, it was pretty bad. And we were terrified. We never told you Julie, thank God for sweet Julie. She saw, she came over, she grabbed me, she took me over, she got me first aid . She's like, just between you and me and Erica , we're not telling anyone and get her <laugh> . I think I do vaguely remember that, like knowing that the next day or something. Yeah, we told you afterwards. I'm like, seriously, I cannot be trusted back here. I just let me get , so I kind of moved over to the broom and the sweeping and making sure we had snacks. I did stuff, but I just, Julie like took the knife. She's like, no more <laugh> . No more <laugh> . And I just said , that's, that's not a dysfunctional team, that is a total functional team because everybody, it was total everyone else . Me anyway . Yep . No, it really was, except Erica couldn't stop laughing. She was like almost snorting laughing because she's, she was better than I was at it. But anyway, that's my memory of helping . We go , there we go. Well, this is really great information, really to know what the dysfunctions are of the team because then you can work on each of these individual items and make a functional team. Right. Right. So have I convinced you that we should I really, yeah, I would like to if if it's a short book and comic, like I'm in short . Yeah . Yep . All right . All right . I'll get on Amazon. Okay, me too. Thank you so much for listening to our podcast. We hope you enjoyed spending time with us because we enjoy spending time with you. If you did, make sure you hit that subscribe button or add the business and pleasure of flowers to your Google Morning routine or your flash briefing on Alexa. We look forward to seeing you next week, so please come back and join us and discover how a bit of knowledge and one small change in your mindset can take you to new levels in your life and business.