The Bridge Between Eras: Navigating Generational Communication with Cameron Pappas and Ellie LaFever

Episode 189: In this thought-provoking episode of "The Bridge Between Eras," join your host, Lori Wilson, as she lets Vonda have a day off while she hosts Cameron Pappas and Ellie LaFever. These two Millennials sit down with Lori and delve into the fascinating and ever-relevant topic of generational communication and succession in the business world. Together, they explore the challenges and opportunities that arise when different generations collide, and share insightful strategies for fostering effective communication and ensuring a smooth transition of leadership within organizations. Gain valuable insights, learn from real-life examples, and discover actionable takeaways that can help you bridge the gap and navigate the complexities of generational dynamics in your own business. Tune in now to unlock the secrets of successful intergenerational collaboration!

Sponsored by:
Flower Clique
Flower Clique Prep School
Real Life Retail Florist

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:04

My business mentor told me he said, Cameron, you can do everything for a season, but you cannot do everything forever, or you will burn.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Welcome to the business and pleasure of flowers. We're your hosts, Vonda LaFever and Lori Wilson.

SPEAKER_02 0:21

And we believe that business and fun are a perfect combination. Kind of like us, Vonda. Good morning, Ellie LaFever. Good morning. And Cameron Pappas.

SPEAKER_03 0:36

Good morning.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

Thank you both for being here. I appreciate it very much. I have two special guests, and we have kicked Vonda LaFever out this week for two reasons. Number one, it's her birthday week. It is. So she gets a pass, right?

SPEAKER_00 0:52

She gets a pass.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

She gets a pass, so she gets kicked out. And number two, I don't have any questions for her.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Well, and I have questions for you. Yeah, and I was gonna say, it's kind of it'd be kind of weird, in my opinion, if she was here. So it's it's better. Yes, because I've got some questions for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

I've got questions. Like, I don't want her here. I don't want her thinking now, right? It's like having to have the sex talk in front of your parents, right? But it has nothing to do with sex talking. Whatever, Lori. Talking about how running a business, how parents influence how you run businesses. So it's kind of the same thing. So I have asked the two of you here because number one, I think you both are great leaders in our industry, whether you believe that about yourselves or not. And I think you're really, really hard workers because I have seen it with my own eyes. I know that to be true. You both run businesses, one of you brick and mortar, one of you virtual. So I have questions. You're both considered millennials, I guess. You're both in that age range, right? Um you both are or have been under at one time the tutelage or the modeling of a parent in a business. Right, working with family, working with family. Um, so Cameron, I'm gonna start with you, Cameron Pappas. You own Norton's Florist in Birmingham, Alabama, and you have uh had five minutes of fame on our pod last year. Was that it? That was at SAF.

SPEAKER_03 2:39

I think it was, yeah. It was in the Outstanding Varieties room.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

So yes, the five minutes you jumped in, and then for the last year we talked about. Yeah, I think we both texted you separately.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

Like Yeah, Ellie and I we we connected like three months apart, like three times. And finally we're here.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

And every time you got back together, oh, we're gonna do that podcast, and so forth. And what's crazy, Lori?

SPEAKER_00 3:00

I haven't even told you this, but I had the idea for a podcast episode with Cameron, and I'm like, Lori's had this whole plan. And I I I asked Cameron, he's like, Yeah, sounds great. Let's make the people cry, like, let's get into it. And then I haven't even talked to you about it. So that'll be another episode.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

That's another one. That's the reprise Cameron part two.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

No, that's like digging super deep. We don't we don't have that mindset today. We're we're gonna be in it.

SPEAKER_02 3:27

No, no, because I'm I've been on the edge of tears for like the last month. So let's not let's not get to tears today. Not today. Not today. Not today. I can't do that. So so Cameron, before we go deep, let's talk a little bit about your business um and share with everybody a little bit of your backstory.

SPEAKER_03 3:48

Yeah, so we're located in Birmingham, Alabama, and I uh grew up here in Birmingham, went to Auburn, studied accounting in Auburn, um, got my master's in accounting, was a CPA. Uh I technically was a CPA up until like last year when I surrendered it. I was a CPA, practiced public accounting at a local accounting firm for three years, and then I joined our business, which Norton's was founded in 1921. So we're 102 years old, and my dad bought the business in 2002 from the third generation of Nortons, uh, Philip Norton, and he was our next door neighbor in the house that I think.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

Wow, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

Yeah, so and my dad actually worked here in the 70s when he was right out of college. He worked here uh in the wholesale department. Um, so it it's really interesting. His story with Norton's was sort of full circle, and I guess technically mine was too. You know, when we bought the business in 2002, I was in seventh grade and I worked here, you know, for every weekend during uh middle school and high school. Uh I tell my my employees all the time, I try to tell them, I try to make sure that people know that like I've washed buckets for six years. I started here making $550 an hour and just try to share with people that that I I've put in my I've put in my blood, sweat, and tears, you know? So I joined the business about eight years ago. It'll be eight years in October. Uh the reason that I joined, I was fed up with public accounting and uh just wanted to do something different. And at the time, my mom, this is 2015, my mom was uh in the sort of middle stages of Alzheimer's, and uh she had early onset Alzheimer's, and it was August of 2015, and my dad was like, you know, Cameron, your mom's probably gonna have to move into an assisted living facility in the co before too long. He was like, Why don't you come and work with me at Norton's and you can work with me and mom and we can just spend some good time together before that time comes. And you know, all my life, my dad always told me that he didn't want me to do this, that he wanted me to do something bigger and better. And when I look back on it, it's like, how could it be better than this? Like what we do. It's just incredible. Yeah, I I joined the business in October of 2015, met my wife, Katie, three days later. Hey Katie, I love you.

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Wow, three days later.

SPEAKER_03 6:39

Three days later. Yep. We I started on a Monday, and my first date with Katie was on Wednesday. So I tell her all the time, I'm like, thank God you didn't know me as a public accountant because you never would have married.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_03 6:53

Um we wouldn't have made it past the first busy season at all. That's the story. I've been here eight years, and then uh my dad, most of you know, my dad passed away in November um of 2022 from liver cancer. So we worked together for seven years, and my best friend, my business partner, and it's been uh it's been a wild, wild nine months.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

Yeah, yeah. All right, so that is your story. That's what led you to here. I want to start this conversation by talking a little bit about what stemmed this conversation for all of us. You were recently on the JetFresh podcast, who we love are jet fresh people, um, and and that got brought up again there. So when we were all at Next Gen, the three of us and all the other people, y'all's age, um, in one of the presentations about communication, there was a man, a young man. And he just stood up and basically was talking about how hard it is to talk to his boss who is older. The conversation was something like every time I go to him, like if he has maybe a more efficient way of doing things or a better way to do something, or wants to tell him about a new idea, they never want to hear it. He's always feels like he's discounted. Like, how do I go to him? How can I talk to him? And there really wasn't a great answer. I had a lot of people in the room going, yeah, yeah, like I know, I feel the same way, but nobody really answered the question. And for those in the room, like you, Cameron, that are business owners and like myself, who was in the room, and I am not a millennial, I am an older person, it really was convicted, right? And Mike Black, am I that guy? Am I that boss? And so I kept thinking about it too as we left, and so I wanted to talk to you guys about it because you and Ellie, yes, you're both young, but you are both also in leadership boss roles, so you're kind of having to be walk that fine line of both, right? You do have to answer two people, or Cameron, you did when you were under your dad, but you're also having to be answered to. That's why we're here, and that's why Ellie was like, I don't, I don't want my mom here right now. I want to be able to be as authentic as I can and not worry. Not that you would ever say anything bad about Vonda, because that's not what this is.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

She's gonna be the one editing it anyway. So, right, yeah, but we'll deal with that.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

We'll deal with that later. And I can say whatever I want. Exactly. Exactly. I'm gonna just start with a couple of questions. Here's my first question, and Cameron, I'm gonna start with you. Can you share with me one or two things that you learned about your business that you learned from by watching your dad that you still implement today, like 100%?

SPEAKER_03 10:22

Yeah, so I mean, I think number one, and this sounds so cliche, but my dad lived by it. And just the old adage that the customer is always right. No matter what, even if they're wrong, and we know that they're wrong, they're still right. We're here, we're in we're service businesses that happen to sell flowers, and uh so I think just living by that is something that I will always take from my dad. Um, and also, you know, this is something that he and I both had in common and we'll always have in common. It's in our blood, but loving people. Uh, you know, I I tell my employees all the time that it's my probably one of my strongest character traits, but also one of my weakest character traits because my dad and I both our love for people and just caring about people uh has burned us, you know. We we've been taken advantage of sometimes, but in the past, and we've learned from it, we've learned from mistakes, but I no matter what, I always love people and care for people, care for the people that work for us. You know, I have a I have a sticky note right here that my dad had on his computer, and I taped it on my monitor, I laminated it and taped it on my monitor, and he has these words that are just values that he lived by, and loving is one of them. I would talk for 10 minutes on each one and how they pertain to our business and just our lives.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

I love that you have that laminated as like a daily reminder. So you always see it, and that's so special.

SPEAKER_03 12:03

Always see it.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:05

Okay, Ellie, what about you? What are one or two things that um your mom has modeled that you're like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

I think um, I think this is no secret to you, Lori. Um what I'm about to say, which is that she will, and not in a competitive way, but she will outwork us all. The amount of work that the the element of getting your hands dirty is something she has done her entire life. And so when you were asking me, you know, to think of these kind of questions and and stuff, I was struggling because I wanted to also like go back in my archives of my memory of at the flower shop because that's where I really, you know, learned the beginning, like where I really saw what she was doing. And so even though she had a full team under her, you know, she she washed buckets. She like she really models hard work. And also, if there was a problem where maybe, again, I don't know why bucket washing is just like the most cliche example that we all give. But like if there was like a high school student, right? I'm like, you know, a 10-year-old and I hear, oh, this high school student's like washing the buckets super lazy and she's taking her time and she's not going fast enough. Vonda will go in and she will, you know, really show them in a very nice way, but a very forward direct way. And that even happened at a latest, at a photo shoot with Audrey, right? Where it was like, Audrey wasn't doing something correctly, but she didn't know. And Vonda goes in, she she shows you, she teaches you, but and it's very forward, but it's it is fine. Anyway, I just think outworking, you know, even now it's like Vonda, stop. Like, don't take this project on. We have we have a team that can do this. You don't have to be doing this spreadsheet at 10 o'clock at night, like go to bed. You know, so the outworking element is just something that you know, I I toe the line between, you know, I'm more of like the work-life balance type, but that definitely has influenced digging a little deeper, getting through this project a little bit faster, a little bit harder, you know. And the other thing she does um is operating with intuition and like kind of that family mentality again. It's like if we're on a Zoom meeting and she can tell that something's up with you or me, like she won't just, you know, push forward and continue the work conversation. She will kind of be she'll kind of get behind the why of why we're feeling that way. Um, instead of being like, oh, Ellie's in a bad mood, it's like, Ellie, like, have you eaten breakfast? Or, you know, it's it's kind, but it's not just like, oh, she's she doesn't write anybody off for any concerns. Like if Cammy, for instance, is pushing back because of fear on a new project. It's not, oh, Cammy's fearful, Cammy doesn't want to do this project. It's why is why is she fearful? Oh, because she's worried that we're gonna sacrifice our quality of work if we have if we're stretched then. You know, like it's just constantly digging deep. Um, those are two things that I really I try to also dig into my work.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

Yeah. No, she is. She's also good at that last thing you said because she'll all at least for me, I'll jump in because she'll do it offline because she knows she won't call out in front of people. I'll break down, or I don't want to talk about it in front of anyone, and nor do you okay, a little bit harder question, and there are no wrong answers because we're all human, but let's we're gonna flip that question, Cameron. What are some things that maybe your dad did that now you as a business owner are like, you know what? I'm not gonna do it that way.

SPEAKER_03 16:02

So that's a really, really cool question right now because I am, you know, I told you it was, I guess, eight to nine months ago when he passed. I think that's a great question because I am I've been telling people recently that I'm just I'm finally getting to a place where I'm comfortable making my own decisions and not doing it the way that he always did it.

SPEAKER_04 16:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:28

And I'm also getting a lot more confident in the decisions that I'm making because I realize I know what I'm doing, you know, I'm not stupid. Like I know what I'm doing. He taught me well and I learned a lot. It's a tough question to answer, though, because I am so much like my dad. If you if you if you had Katie here, she could go on and on about how much I'm like my dad. Um, however, one of the main things, you know, Ellie, I love how you said this, but uh the work ethic. So my dad would be awake all hours and I do the same thing. But you wake up at 3 a.m. with an idea and you can't go back to sleep. That's a business owner thing. Like I talked to plenty of other business owners outside the industry that the same thing happens to happen to me this morning. Um but I really try, especially because I have a four-year-old George and two-year-old Sylvie, I really try to work on that life work balance. I don't call it work life balance, I call it life work balance there, Ellie for you. Okay, and and I've changed up some of the spreadsheets that we use to track, you know. He had a spreadsheet that's like 30,000 lines long that he updated every single morning for the previous day with all sorts of metrics. And I decided I was like, I'm gonna start doing this Monday to Sunday and monitoring it week by week and comparing it to the same week last year. Um, that's just one example. I I really try to, when I go home, I shut it off for at least a few hours and spend that time with my my kids and my wife. And um, you know, and then when he first passed, I really was working a lot at night because I was just like, I gotta keep going, I gotta keep going. Yeah, but now I'm getting to the place where I realize like most of this can wait until the next day. Like it's not Norton's isn't gonna go out of business if you don't do this tonight. So uh, you know, shut it off, relax, don't push yourself so hard to where you burn out and you don't want to do this because you know you got a long way to go.

SPEAKER_02 18:36

Ellie, what about you? This is a tough question, Lori. Yeah, it is, it is tough. Well, because you're in a different phase, right? Like you're you and your mom are actually co-working together right now.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Yeah. So I feel like um Thonda is very much jump in and launch it tomorrow. Which you know, which is great to test things, but I'm more of a test before we jump kind of person that we've been, you know, and so with this new community that we're the the interface for our membership, right? Um it's actually pretty refreshing because we're, you know, beta testing things and we're you know, gathering data and insights. And I feel like that's something that we both are working together on, right? It's not just me doing it differently, but it is, you know, let's just make this a little more calculated. Because she is so full force ahead at all times. I think that's just her mentality where I'm like a little like, let's try it a little and then and then we'll jump in. Um yeah. So that would be, I guess, something that we're but we're doing it together. We're doing and then the other thing, which also we are trying to do together, which hasn't happened yet, but it will, is um just outsourcing. Vonda and I are both like, let's do it all ourselves. I mean, even like when it comes to home projects or like, you know, fixing the sink or doing things, it's like let's just we can do it ourselves. And to a point in business, that's not smart, right? So we're both collectively um attempting to relinquish some control.

SPEAKER_03 20:26

Just so hard.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

Yeah, it's so hard.

SPEAKER_03 20:28

Um I'm in the same boat. I'm I'm my my business mentor told me he said, Cameron, you can do everything for a a season, but you cannot do everything forever, or you will burn.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Yeah, you can do it for a season, and you did, right? When you're you know, when you're further past, like you had to, and that's and I'm realizing that I I have to let go of this stuff and have to have to start delegating it.

SPEAKER_03 20:53

Delegating and elevating.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Yeah, delegating and elevating.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

Yeah, there you go, Ellie. There's some wisdom in all of that right there. You can do it all for a season, but gotta delegate and elegate elevate. That's true. All right, next question, Cameron. Um think thinking back when you were working for your father, um, and this think back not just you, but other employees too, um younger. Was your dad open to new ideas and suggestions when and if did employees come come a running if they had a new idea for the business?

SPEAKER_03 21:40

Uh yeah, so my dad, he was always a very forward thinking person. So um, now that said, he also could come up with some of the wildest, most ridiculous ideas. Um but he also was, and and this guy. Back to the conversation at NextGen that you're you're touching on it a little bit with like was he open to listening to these ideas? And what I learned through that was yes, he wants to listen to them and he'll listen, but it also like had to be sometimes it had to be his idea. Even if I had this great idea, I would tell him this idea, and then like I'd just water it. I'd plant the seed, water it, and then a few months later he'd be like, Hey, I got this idea. Let's do this.

SPEAKER_04 22:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_03 22:33

Let's go. So he he he listened, he he he would listen, but he also was a little bit set in his ways. Um but it was also like there's a lot of wisdom behind that. Like he was very good about letting me do what I wanted because he valued my opinion and he knew I wasn't dumb. And he knew that there's a lot of people like that we think differently, right? But also he was very analytical about it and would squash an idea if it was not gonna be cost effective, then he would squash an idea at the minute.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

Right. But was he that way because he wanted he knew you were gonna take over the business? Um, or was he that way with every employee or just you?

SPEAKER_03 23:27

That's a good question. So when he came into the business, he did a really good job of surrounding himself with people that were smarter than him, or that not necessarily were smarter than him, but knew what they were doing, right? And so when it came to uh design mechanics and stuff like that, he would he would relinquish that because he was the businessman, he was a business mind, and he loved being at 10,000 feet, which is the part that I struggle with the most because I've been in the weeds for the last eight years. So yeah, I mean he was open to hearing new ways of doing things, but he also ran them through his Gus analyzer to make sure that it made sense financially and in the long run.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

Yeah. And I would say, like, all right, speaking to that, like you there was such a mutual respect that you had and that you didn't abuse your privileges of wanting to plant those seeds or ask him to do something. Like I remember when I uh at SAF last year, I think you and I were talking about you know your flower click membership and which product license you wanted, mix one or mix two, and you were very respectful of the fact like my dad, like it's it's a mixed one because it's a little bit more traditional, and that's our customer at that time, and things like that. Like you were just very in touch with well, he's gonna have that answer. You know, if if if our designs trend too modern and our numbers go down, like it's it's all a ripple effect.

SPEAKER_03 24:55

And so I think you just I think one on that note, another one, another one that's very relevant here is when people talk about pay-per-click advertising versus uh traditional advertising. So he would just like if I wanted to spend, I wanted to like hire social media stuff and all that. He's like, There's no return on investment. Look at my pay per click spend. I get this percentage and I know it's coming, and I make that like he's like, take all that money and put it into pay per clicks. Why would you do this? And I'm like, because it's it's different, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

So yeah, yeah, and speaking to that, there was like a little bit of a conflict with all of our merch. And Cameron, I think you know, you loved it. I think you were there at SAF Next Gen. You saw that the impact, but there was not a direct return on investment.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

The sweatshirts that you like, all of that's what she's talking about, all of our branding.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

It's very similar to the pay-per-click versus social, it's brand awareness, which isn't quantifiable directly through a line item on a spreadsheet.

SPEAKER_03 26:11

Like I got home and I Katie saw pictures on Instagram of that sweatshirt. She's like, make sure you get me a sweatshirt. I want money. The sweatshirt is yours, I promise. Like you can have it. And she loves it. And she's like, You need to do this for Norton's, just copy her straight up. Yeah, yeah, but I that's a great example, Ellie, is like when you get into merch and stuff and branding, it's it's hard because that stuff's not cheap. Like, I stro we struggled to get it for our drivers because polos are you know 40 bucks and you gotta buy each driver needs three to five at least. Like if you want them wearing dirty clothes, like yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

Anyway, all right. What about you, Ellie? Let's ask you the same question.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

Yeah, I think Vonda is very open to hearing new ways of doing things or new ideas, and she really gives you the runway, I think, within our whole team to give us the runway to okay. So, how do how do you picture this going? Or how do you, you know, she kind of allows us to ideate the idea further than just that seed, and then she runs with it. Um, it's it and that's a great learning experience for all of us, where it's like, okay, how it's it's great problem solving and execution and all of the important things um when it comes to a project. So yeah, and I I guess also like just the best example of that is her main stage program at AIFD a few years ago, which was Flower Shop of the Future. Like she is that forward thinker, she is looking for the next thing and the next idea, and she's she's very much that's where her and I share a brain too. It's like let's always thinking of the future, almost more so than the present. It's like yeah, I think she's she's I agree. She's open. What do you think, Lori? What do you think? 100%, both of you. Think back to your early days though, when you and her were in your first year of working together. Do you feel like you could approach her with an idea or a problem? Okay. Always.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

I I think she was the first person when I started in this industry. I remembered the very first phone conversation I had with her. I will never forget it. And I'm not gonna go into it right now because it's too, we don't have time for it. But I remember thinking, oh my gosh, this woman, number one, she immediately saw who I was. Her her conversation with me was like, you need to stop what you're doing, which was like computer stuff, right?

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Google analytics.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

You need to get on the phone calling these members, just talk to them, just talk to them, ask them how they're doing. That's all you need to be doing. You need to be talking to them. Like, I was like, oh my gosh, how fun! That's all I want to do. Like, okay, like that sounds like the best job ever, right? Which, like, she got it, and and I felt so understood and seen. And from that moment on, you know, I've been like, I have been able to share any stupid or great idea with her. And she's like, okay, well, let's let's think through that, let's process, you know, and with you. Like, I've never, I mean, you've maybe given me, as your boyfriend and I say, the look a couple of times, like, what? But we've either hashed it out and you're like, okay, or we've hashed it out and gone, okay, yeah. Yeah, we usually come to a conclusion together, which is we come to a conclusion and we either laugh at what a stupid idea it was and move on, or like, yeah, that could really work. So, you know, so my question to you, Cameron, is do you have that open door policy? Um, what does that look like?

SPEAKER_03 30:13

Yeah, absolutely. My door is always open, partially because the air conditioner that comes to my office is broken, so I keep it broken airflow. Yeah, but also I always like I'm in the same boat that my dad was. I'm an accountant by trade. I'm not a florist by trade. And I have a design team that has over a hundred years of experience combined, and they're really smart and they know what they're talking about, and they know what they're doing. So I have to I have to rely on them to bring these new design ideas to me. And uh, you know, I mean, and the road goes both ways because I really because I'm that way about what they bring to me, I hope that they're receptive of change when I introduce something new and that they trust me because I trust them. It's one of our core values is trust. And I want them to trust me as much as I trust them that all the decisions that we make and all the ideas that we have are focused on the future of the florist and our future success.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

So I feel like you both have already pretty much answered this, but I'm gonna ask it. And if there's anything else you want to make sure the audience hears, you can say it. Um is there a certain way you would like an employee or a co-worker or anyone to approach you if they had an idea or an issue or you know, anything they wanted to come and present to you? Is there um, and and again, Vonda and I talked about this last week, and she was saying how um what you know, going back to her owning a flower shop days, really, if an employee came to her with a with an idea or a design um or or an issue, and maybe she was short with them, you know, maybe it was just an off time. And so she kind of created this perfect scenario of how she wished they would come to her, what that would look like. Is there is there a way you wish they would approach you?

SPEAKER_03 32:30

In a lot of cases, I just wish that they would approach me. You know, I would rather them say something to me than say something to each other. Because a lot of times, especially if there's an issue, the issue can get resolved if you bring it to me rather than talking about it with each other and making it worse in some cases.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

Yeah, I agree with that.

SPEAKER_03 32:53

Um yeah, because it's gonna come back to me anyway. That's what I was saying. Yeah, y'all, y'all don't think I've got ears. I'm gonna hear it.

SPEAKER_02 33:02

I mean, if it's said to one more person, it's gonna be said to seven more people.

SPEAKER_03 33:08

It's gonna be a telephone game, and the original thing said is not gonna be what reaches my ears.

SPEAKER_02 33:15

Yeah. All right, we're gonna move to the next section, and I'm gonna try to speed it up. But this to me is just fascinating because you know I love me some millennials, and you both are millennials. So these are questions specifically for your era because 34% of the workforce are made up of millennials right now, so that's a pretty good chunk. So, number one, most people in the world, except for me, for some weird reason, love to be recognized for their work, you know, whether it's an award, whatever. But everybody likes to get it in different ways. How do you like to be recognized for your work? And is that so? Let's start with the second part of that. First of all, is that something important to you to be recognized for your work? Cameron, I'm gonna start with you to answer that question.

SPEAKER_03 34:11

Yeah, I mean, uh, obviously everyone likes recognition, um, and it and it helps to drive you forward and it motivates you and all that. But whenever Norton's gets recognized, for instance, I'll give you a great example of this. All this recognition comes at Valentine's and Mother's Day, and and everybody's like, oh, Cameron, you did such a great job, you did such a great job. And I'm like, what are y'all talking about? Y'all made the six people out here made 2,000 arrangements, these four people took 2,000 orders, these eight people made 2,000 deliveries, and I'm just I might be the oil and the grease that's everywhere making the action. But they're the ones that did it. I want them to get that recognition. So I think that the the greatest recognition to me is just I don't know, our team being happy and people being on a team together and happy customers, and and like you know, our vision is to spread love and joy with beautiful fresh flowers. That's what it's all about. It's not about telling me what kind of job I'm doing.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

And what's your nickname?

SPEAKER_03 35:22

The recognition that I get. Do what?

SPEAKER_00 35:24

Two plaques.

SPEAKER_03 35:25

Yeah, two plaques, it's not about being two plaque. Right. I got my plaques right on my wall right here.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

I was gonna say, yeah, I see a plaque behind us.

SPEAKER_03 35:34

Oh yeah, that's that's for C12. That's my uh that's my leadership organization. Whole nother podcast.

SPEAKER_02 35:42

Whole nother, a whole nother one. So yeah, okay, so they're yeah, they're they are important, but only if you're recognized as a team. Is that what I hear you say?

SPEAKER_03 35:50

Yeah, I mean, yes, individuals love recognition, but I want whenever I receive it, I make sure that I give credit where credit's due.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

Right. No, I think that's a good idea. Ellie, what about you? Yeah, I mean, I think I'm kind of uncomfortable with it. Um but I did see something recently that helped, especially with not even recognition, but even compliments. Just I don't like that. I get awkward and it's just weird. But I read the compliment isn't necessarily about you. It's about the other person being vulnerable and sharing they were vulnerable with you to give you that compliment. So it's so by shutting them down, you're kind of it's just, you know, you have to you just accept it because that's kind of a sign of um. But I think, I mean, yeah, I I definitely I don't need awards. I think what is more important to me because you know, we're a digital team and we're a digital company, everything is in the cloud. So when you're in person and somebody, I remember like the first next gen we went to, um, the SAF girls were like, I love your logo and your branding. And you know, to hear it from somebody else is just really nice because half the time I'm like, I don't even know if what I'm doing is good or you know, right. So it's that artist's doubt that it kind of when that gets squashed, it's really nice. So that would be it. Just a little compliment. And then when we leave, they they go anyway for me more than any uh award.

SPEAKER_02 37:35

But yeah. Tell you know what my favorite award is I ever got, Cameron Ellie and Bonnie sent it to me. It's my candle. It just says sometimes you forget you're awesome. So this is your reminder. It is just my favorite little awesome candle. Okay, next question. How do you prefer to receive feedback from either your boss or coworker or employee? Now think about this. How do you prefer to receive feedback? Whether it's constructive, positive, or negative?

SPEAKER_03 38:17

So being the opposite of Ellie and being probably one of the most extroverted people I know, um, I honestly like wish that more people would tell it straight to my face. I am a big boy, and um I I feel that you know, even if somebody gives me feedback and it upsets me, I need to hear it. What I tell people all the time is like if they do bring me a problem and say that somebody isn't doing something or somebody's doing this wrong, who does it come back to? It all comes back to me anyway. So pretty much any issue that comes up, I say, yeah, we're gonna handle it as a team, but like it's the root always comes back to the leader. The the head honcho is where any issue in the company comes back to you. I wish that people would just say it to my face, like I was saying a few minutes ago, just tell me. Like, I'm I want because I want to be able to give you, I want to be able to comfortably give you constructive criticism, and I want you to receive it the right way, right?

SPEAKER_02 39:30

So right, yeah. Okay, so that's from the extrovert.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

I mean, I I agree with the big boy comment. Like, I think a lot of times, because I'm a sensitive human, people don't like to they kind of tiptoe around something with me. And it's like at the end of the day, I am a big girl. I am a you know, part business owner, like I have to be told things directly. Uh I I'm not a big fan of compliment sandwiches just because I can see through them, you know. Like I always say to do that, but like personally, I do not like receiving them because it just feels fake. I would rather it just be direct and and more casual. I'm not a fan of like, hey, I need to sit down and talk to you. Like just you know, cover casually, bring it up, and then it goes deeper naturally. It doesn't need to be super like serious from the start. So I guess that would be that would be what I like. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:29

And is that how you guys would then give it also? I know Ellie, I know that's how you give it. I think you well, well, I mean, not that you've given me that much. I'll speak for myself. What I think you're good at is you just pick up the phone and pick up and go, hey, let's clear this up. Yeah. If not that we've never had an like an issue, but like if it's about an email or a something like, hey, are we on this leader?

SPEAKER_00 41:00

That's like the one time I love to just pick up the phone.

SPEAKER_02 41:03

And you never pick up the phone. But when you you when I see my little Ellie calling, I'm like, all right, we're gonna be clear, we're gonna have a detail here. We're gonna make sure we know what we're doing before we get off the phone. And I love that. I mean, that's you, and that to me, Cameron, that's exactly what you're taking about. Like, we're yeah, we're going straight in. The only two people that need to know what's going on are having the conversation, yeah, filtering out everybody else and making sure the the project gets done.

SPEAKER_03 41:37

Yeah, and and I'm also like I'm a big fan of praise in public, uh punish in private, because I I have punished in public before and it has backfired real bad on me. And it's sort of not even intentional. I didn't do it on purpose, but I think hindsight, I've done it twice that I can remember that that like were bad.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

And um you saw the results of the of doing it.

SPEAKER_03 42:04

It just was not a good vibe. Yeah, but you know, I got a I got a compliment this morning from one of my salespeople told me that one of our drivers wasn't delivering flowers to a house, but he knocked on their door and said, There's a huge hornet's nest here on your property. And she called us just to say thank you. And she was like, he didn't even have flowers for me, and he told me that. So I want to make sure to praise him, just yeah, small things like that, right? Because you don't know how other people want to receive feedback. So if there's an instance where I can share public praise, and somebody might that might cause another employee to do something seeking that public praise, right?

SPEAKER_02 42:48

Yeah, yeah. Okay, both of you kind of put on your boss's hat and think about your company culture, think about your employees. I'm putting in quotes here, and think about our listeners who have employees, and I want you to also keep in mind that young man from Next Gen who was so struggling. If we could go back in time and answer that young man, which all of us wish we could, but maybe he's listening. He was saying, when I try to tell something, go to my boss, who is a different generation than me, and I could have sworn that it was his uncle or some kind of relative that we're pretending that he it's Uncle Jim. And I go to him with a new idea or a new process about ways things, something can be different. He doesn't want to hear it, just shuts him down, just just kind of discounts him, like, no, we do it this way. We're not changing. Um, what advice can we give him on how to try to make change? I'll go quickly. I think.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

It's kind of going back to maybe like a a little bit of a therapy session where you you voiced Uncle what is his name? Uncle Jim. Uncle Jim's what we're calling. Uncle Jim. I I know that I'm young. I know that I'm in my 20s, and you have so much more industry expertise and wisdom. However, I don't feel like my ideas are being heard here. And I would love if we could kind of meet in the middle somehow, where I'm I'm learning from you. I'm bringing new ideas because blah, blah, blah, blah. You have to, I think, clear the air with the direct problem rather than being like trying to find a sneaky way to plant the seeds, right? I think just saying, hey, I don't feel like you're super open with what I have to bring. I feel like I value myself. I'm confident in in some of the ideas, and even if they don't get executed, I'd like to at least be open to talking to you about these things. Yeah. Um, and not feel, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:09

You're probably not gonna have the best reaction there, but you got your point to them, and I think that having the guts to say that says a lot about you. I'm a very non-confrontational person.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 45:21

I think that's that's a great viewpoint, but I also think that that could just and in my experience, that could set them off sometimes. I don't know. But but I like I I what I wanted to tell him, I was like, keep your chin up, right? Like there's gonna be times because you don't know everything either. There's so many times where I talked to my dad about things, and and he would just say no, like we argued for three months about keeping a store open, and it was in a business building a mile and a half from our store. It was breaking even, maybe breaking even. And it's in one of the four skyscrapers, quote unquote, in Birmingham. It's like a 30-story building, there's three of them, and we had a store in there, and we closed it on February 24th of 2020.

SPEAKER_00 46:15

That's insane.

SPEAKER_03 46:16

Three weeks later, the building was empty for six months. COVID. Obviously, hindsight, that was a good decision to close that store. But my dad knew so much more about the big picture. I wanted to keep it open because I have a growth mindset. He wanted to close it because he knew that we couldn't grow without cutting that fat, like trimming that fat. And so I think that yes, I think that Ellie, your point of hitting it head on and like let's talk about it. I think that perspective will definitely work in the long run because you're you're getting through to them. And I think if somebody told me that, then I think they got guts. Like that's that shows leadership and on their perspective. But I think also just keep your chin up and and remember that there are other things in play, like there's more to decisions, and I think that's also for Uncle Jim to fight back with.

SPEAKER_00 47:20

Well, not fight back, but just to respond with it's like there are so many parts to this business, and explain to him why certain ideas might work or not work, but kind of giving that responsibility.

SPEAKER_03 47:32

Like our generation, it's a generational thing. We think that we know everything. We don't, right?

SPEAKER_00 47:41

Right.

SPEAKER_03 47:41

And we it's very important that we're respectful of wisdom.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

I that's something I would say to to Bill as well. You don't know, you you can't think that you know everything. You can't think that all of your ideas are the best ideas. And then if you still have that humble mindset, you know, you need to you need to vocalize what you're feeling.

SPEAKER_02 48:02

I think, Ellie, what you just said is key. It's all about uh, you know, how humble are you when you go to Uncle Jim, right? I mean, it it really goes back to mindset too. Um, and it it it's going to take more than just one conversation also to change Uncle Jim's heart and mind. We know that.

SPEAKER_00 48:24

But I mean, we are giving this the uncle nephew dynamic. If it wasn't that, if it was a normal employee boss, I think it would be even tougher. So yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 48:36

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

Hang in there, Bill. I don't know, but it was a great conversation, you guys. Really good. All right, Ellie, you had a question. So, Cameron, I I feel like I didn't imagine this that you said you have a a lot of your employees that have been there 40 years. Is that true?

SPEAKER_03 48:52

I have I have one employee who's been here 42 years.

SPEAKER_00 48:54

Okay. What about the others? Have they all been there a long time?

SPEAKER_03 48:58

Uh not all of them, but we have several that have been here up uh since my dad bought the business. Since between 15 and 20 years. We have 24 total employees, and I think six of them have been here for longer than 15 years.

SPEAKER_00 49:14

When is the last time you hired a new person? How long ago?

SPEAKER_03 49:19

Um six months.

SPEAKER_00 49:21

Okay, so you hired after you took over.

SPEAKER_03 49:25

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Pretty much mo a lot of the people other than those six, I've hired everybody that works here. And I think that's I take I don't take pride in it, but I do. I do take pride in it actually, because I have a viewpoint of what I want my company culture to be going forward, and I believe that every hire that I've made, I've made bad hires too, and they're no longer here. But you know, when you run a company with values and everybody's on the on the bus and the right on the right you have the right people and the right seats on the bus, Jim Collins. Um good, great, read it if you haven't, uh then you have no choice but to succeed. It it it gets yeah when you have a lot of people with the same mindset, it it leads to success.

SPEAKER_02 50:20

Love that. Yeah. So Cameron, thank you. Do you promise you'll come back to the city? Absolutely. Thanks, Cameron. Yeah, all right. All right. This was great. Thank you so much for listening to our podcast. We hope you enjoyed spending time with us because we enjoy spending time with you. If you did, make sure you hit that subscribe button or add the Business and Pleasure of Flowers to your Google morning routine or your flash briefing on Alexa.

SPEAKER_01 50:47

We look forward to seeing you next week. So please come back and join us to discover how a bit of knowledge and one small change in your mindset can take you to new levels in your life and business.