A Favorite Episode Replay: The Five Dysfunctions of a Team

Episode 236: Vonda and Lori are at AIFD this week, making it the perfect opportunity for YOU to catch up on any podcast episodes you’ve missed! If you need a recommendation, check out Episode 159: “Leadership Lessons: Five Dysfunctions of a Team.” In this episode, the Flower Clique gals give an overview of the book “The Five Dysfunctions of a Team” by Patrick Lencioni which discusses the pitfalls and challenges a leadership team faces and discuss how these directly relate to a retail floral business. Focusing on the negative is not what this episode is about ~ it’s about knowing the pitfalls to avoid them!

Sponsored by:
Flower Clique
Flower Clique Prep School
Real Life Retail Florist

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:03

In attention to results. This is defined as focusing on personal success, status, and ego before team success.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Welcome to the business and pleasure of flowers.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

We're your hosts, Vonda LaFever and Lori Wilson, and we believe that business and fun are a perfect combination. Kind of like us, Vonda.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Hello, clickers. Lori and I are really crazy busy this week, and we're at AIFD Symposium, which makes this the perfect opportunity for you to catch up on any podcast episode you missed. But if you want a recommendation, we're going to replay leadership lessons, five dysfunctions of a team. This is like a favorite. So let's listen in.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

One of the things that uh we thought would be fun because I love to read is uh book talk, right? So I would read a book, I would try to convince you why you should read it. Yeah. Right. And in the end, you'll either go, yeah, I'm gonna read it, or or you'd probably go, yep, just ordered it on Amazon, or no, thank you. So this is this talk today is going to be kind of a hybrid. Okay. Because there is a book out there and it's a short book, but I would like for us to read it together.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

And it is called Lessons on Leadership Reflections from the Five Dysfunctions of a Team. So the title is the five dysfunctions of a team. So the book is fiction, so it's kind of but yet I I would call it realistic fiction. And it's kind of like um laid out almost like a comic book. So there's a lot of stuff in it. Anyway, I think it would be so I want to tell you the dumbed down version of what is in the book, and we're gonna talk about it. Okay. And again, like you and I do, every thing we read, every note we take, we're filtering it through the lens of a flower shop owner or a florist of some sort, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Yes. So let me back up just a minute. When you said it's short and it's comic book like, I'm I'm like in more, as you know, because it's I I'm I'm so with you.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

You know, we're reading, I'm rereading the mindset book, which is so good, but I'm like, God, so many words.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

So many words in kind of small print, and it's a little struggle for me, but I'm I'm working on that one. Just it is very small print. I'm with you.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

When I read it, I don't know, eight years ago, my eyes were better. I didn't notice it was smaller.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

I'm not getting it. I feel like I need to be in where my mother was at assisted living because they had all large print books, and maybe they make this in a large print.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

I love a good I have a large print Bible. Yes, it was my mom. I love the large print. The older we get, the more we need the large print. Okay, okay, all right, that's a whole nother conversation. So the key points of the book, the according to this book, the five dysfunctions of a team. So the team we're referring to a flower shop owner and their employees, their team. Okay, got it. Number one, the absence of trust. So it says this is defined as the unwillingness to be vulnerable within a team. This is not talking about just the owner, however, it starts with them, right? It's talking about the rest of the team, too. Team members are worried that others will use their vulnerabilities against them. Oh my gosh. That hit me because whether it's professional or personal life, that is a fear I always have. If I divulge one of my flaws, which there are many, is that person I'm divulging it to going to come back and say, Oh, well, remember, you said you weren't good at this. You're not. You know what I mean? Yeah. No, that's very harsh. So teams, uh, team members hesitate to open up about their fears or their concerns about a project. What I see happening in flower shops is they don't feel like the owner is approachable. So they get to a point where they convince themselves, you know what, I can find another job somewhere else. Everybody's hiring, and they just leave. And the poor business owner has no idea why they left.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

Like they're shocked. Yeah, I think a lot of team members or like designers, maybe that's a designer assistant, or depending on your job situation, they feel like they're not as good as the others on the team. And so sometimes they just back up and don't want to contribute because they feel like what they have isn't good enough, which goes into the trust. Then they don't trust their feelings and they maybe see something, they're like, Oh, I wish I could say that, but I don't feel like I'm in the place that I can contribute to that. Because again, it could be used against them.

SPEAKER_02 5:37

Exactly. This reminded me of I don't know how many years ago, uh, I think four years ago, when we, you and Ellie and I, we were doing a session at SAF, and I was telling this story about teaching my son to ride the bicycle. Yes, right. And how you hold on and you hold on until and then you let go and you know they're gonna fall a couple of times, they're gonna fail and they're gonna get wounded and they're gonna, you know. But if you go into this modeling, hey, I want you to now do your dozen roses. Show me how you do a dozen roses or whatever, you know they're gonna fail. It's it's all in how you approach that because if you constantly criticize them or micromanage them, they're not gonna, they're not gonna feel that you trust them at all. And you don't stay in a job very long and feel like your boss doesn't trust you.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

Right. And that's when you are feeling the most vulnerable when you're designing in front of your peers who have more experience or your boss. And so, yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

Um, number two, this one's I get it, uh, fear of conflict. A lot of shop owners, they're like, I just don't want to deal with it. There's a lot of drama that goes on in their store, and they just kind of hide and retreat. So um I like what this boat said. It says this is defined as seeking artificial harmony over constructive, passionate debate. Um, the the picture I have in my head is when I get on social media and I see like some of my friends who have the perfect Christmas card or the perfect vacation or the perfect this and the perfect that. I'm like, that's likely artificial harmony because they have to have something going on in their life.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

I know. I love the Christmas cards where the kids are like looking or they're like making faces at one another because I'm like, that is real. Yeah, that is real.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

Exactly, exactly. So team members are worried about retribution or political consequences, political meaning policy within the store. Thus, team members end up being political, they choose their words and actions based on how they want others to react rather than how they really think. Goes back, isn't that interesting?

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Because it goes back to the trust, right? And then the con it's like you don't want to be the one who's gonna tell you what you want to hear.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

Yeah, it you know, Cammy and I have talked about this before because we both have a level of nine on the Enneagram, and nine are people pleasers, and you have to be very self-aware if you're a people pleaser, because you do tend to say what you think that person wants to hear and not truly what you feel, and so you you've got to guard against that because that doesn't really help anybody.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

No, it doesn't at all, and especially you then you get if you're not really being honest, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:51

And you're one telling them what they want to hear, then you're conflicted, and you're like, Oh, you're conflicted, and then they have this false sense of, hey, I'm really it'd be like you saying, Lori, you really are a great designer. Man, that dozen roses is beautiful, and in my eyes, I'm like, Really? It you're giving it because I don't see it as beautiful, but that's an exaggerated story, but you know what I mean? It's we're we're not doing any favors by not addressing the conflict, especially a business owner. If you have conflict among your team, you've got to sit down with them and have those conversations.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

But it's really hard, let me tell you, as a former owner, and yeah, you watch this conflict sometimes going on in the store, right? There's maybe an undercurrent or a conflict, and nobody wants to address it, especially the owner, right? Right. You have to like step up. I mean, I had that a couple of times, and it's like, man, you just kind of look and then you're like, you turn away because you were like, I don't want to deal with this, I don't want to deal with it. Yeah, but you have to step in, as my friend Marie would say, put on your big girl panties and go up there and do it. And you just have to say, hey, you know, the two of you, I hear this going on, I'm watching this, let's talk about it, let's take care of this complex right now. And as hard as it is, you've got to do it. And then afterwards, everybody's in a better space.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

Yeah. One thing, and I don't know if this was the right thing to do, probably not, but I was tired. So when I taught middle school, you know, I was also the cheerleading coach. And it was one of my favorite things in the world to do because middle school girls and their drama descracts me. So here's the thing there would be like backstabbing, you know, on the squad. And I I'm pretty self-aware, I could see what's going on. So, what I would do is I would pick, there was always the same two culprits. I knew like they are sort of the leaders, and you know, the whole dynamic, I had it figured out. I would take those two girls during a practice, I would put them in my classroom, shut the door, and say, You will not come out until you figure it out. Because we're not having this negativity reach out because I could see people taking sides. But I think it worked because I would go in like after 10 minutes, we good. What are we, what's going on now? And by the end, it was fine. And they'd come back no more drama, at least for that practice, right? So as hard as it was, I didn't necessarily need to be involved in the mediation of it. Depend it depended on what it was about. But so many of the times I'm like, you guys, you two go in here because you're toxic for the rest of the team. And I think we can use that same model with adults when there's conflict, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:06

I don't know about throwing them both in the same room. Sometimes that could be somebody's gonna walk out.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

Right, right. Well, and again, I know I don't do I knew what I was doing with a lot of these girls. Yeah, um, and a lot of it was which I think it could be employees, feelings were hurt, and I knew forgiveness needed to happen in there before we could move on. Um, it never escalated, like if they were like knocked down, drag out, fighting.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Of course, I wouldn't put them in there, but a lot of times you hit that just right when you said feelings are hurt, and that's usually where it is. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

Right. And and you're afraid to, it goes back to our vulnerability, right? You're afraid to share with the rest of the team that you got your feelings hurt from what she said, so you turn that into anger and you get everybody mad about it's just and then the conflicts is you know, when the conflict starts, right? Yeah, anyway. I don't do that anymore with I do miss my girls though. I miss middle school, they were my people. Um, lack of commitment. This one, yeah, this was runs rampant through our industry with the revolving door of employees that's so much right now. Yeah, yeah. It's defined as the state of ambiguity throughout the organization. So many employees are just there for the paycheck and they really don't care. Um, did you ever have anyone like this?

SPEAKER_00 13:48

You know what I didn't? I would have to say I really didn't. I was we were very blessed to have a team that really were committed, you know. It's like, yeah, and but I think it comes down to open communication too, right? So when um you let them know when they need to be there, why that, and let them know why they're important. And it's it all comes down to the culture, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:11

Because if you have a good culture and they see that other people are committed and they want to be part of that, I see this more with big flower shops that have a lot of employees. Yeah, like 10 or more, because maybe you're not as you don't use as much discrepancy when you're interviewing at that moment because you need bodies. Um, so maybe you don't, you know, touch on all of the super important things. So you're gonna hire a couple people just because their parents said, Hey, you've got to go get a job or you're not living here anymore. And so you're you know what I mean. Right. Right, right. And there's a lot of those out there, but this the smaller to medium shops, I notice at least I'm just thinking of our flower clip members, they don't have nearly the turnover rate.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Well, you can see why a lack of commitment causes a totally dysfunctional team. I mean, because you have some people who are committed and then you have others who aren't, and and then it rolls back into the other. That's the whole crazy thing about this book.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

And the whole team notices when someone really doesn't care or um is apathetic, and then that bitterness or that that's unfairness happens when you as a team are going to decide on something and they get to have say in it. You know, and they're like, why do we get to accommodate her schedule? So what do you do about that though? If there's lack of commitment, do you, and I'm saying that question to both of us, so what you know, what would you do, Vonda, if one of your employees you noticed, you know what, they're they just don't seem to be available or they don't seem to be, they seem to be off in another world.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

That's send that's a conversation, right? You bring them in to your office or you, you know, take them to lunch, which is hard to do in this business. So I take them in the office and I say, Hey, Lori, you know, I can see that your mind is somewhere else. You don't seem like you're like really keyed into what's going on here. What is it that um you're thinking about, or what can we do to make it better for you? Yeah, so put it back on that and then maybe give them some goals. I think really trying to focus in it. What I see you doing here would be this, and how can we help you achieve that? Because you could be a very important part of this team if we can get your focus in back into right. So I think it's a conversation and not about you're doing this wrong. You're exactly right.

SPEAKER_02 16:49

We have to be cautious because they're probably right at that cusp of I'm just out of here. So I would my answer would be exactly like yours, except I would also ask, what is it you love? What made you want to come work here? And try to put that person in a position that they kind of sometimes be able to feel. Let's let's say they love scrolling on their phone or they love photography. And I know we use that as an example, but give them as part of their job, hey, I want you to go into the design room, I want you to take some pictures. Here's our Instagram account, you know, do this, but then so I need you to wash buckets, you know, give them a little bit of what they love and are passionate about. Yeah, you know, they're incentivized to do the rest of the stuff because they love that part.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

That's it. I think that's why many times they're they're not being accountable or they don't want to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

You mentioned accountability, so that's the next thing is avoidance of accountability. So this is defined as acceptance of low standards for the deliverables. Um, my when I read this one, my first thought was you know, the flower shops that I know, they wouldn't they wouldn't be able to put up with this. I mean, low standards of deliverables of what you have, like you're gonna get dinged on the Google if many times, right? On the ratings, if you don't hold your designers accountable.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Yeah. I mean, accountability all the way down, right? Even down to that delivery driver. If the delivery driver is the delivery driver out in the rain or out in the snow, and you know, all of that, which again it's the Google reviews or the Yelp reviews, whichever it is, right?

SPEAKER_02 18:40

All right, the last one is in attention to results. This is defined as focusing on personal success, status, and ego before team success. This happens a lot in a flower shop. I do think it it's more when somebody is their own brand, but you have to, right? You you have to put have a big ego to put yourself out there. Um, but this went on to say that team members invest valuable time and energy in the politics of self-protection. Thus, team members focus on making themselves look good and place self-preservation over the team's interests. Again, it goes back, Vonda. It's all who is your leader? Yeah. What are they modeling? You know, I I think about you in Flower Click, and every day you're putting something out there. Great job, Ellie, or great job, Lloyd. Like you're constantly making sure everyone's such you never say, Look what I did, look at the profit spreadsheet I made. Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

You know, yeah, so yeah, that one I agree doesn't usually happen in a shop because if it does, so so let's say set up a scenario that a flower shop needs a designer, and so then they hire a designer who's really well known, and they're coming in and like for freelance, they hire them to come in for a holiday, and that person is just talking about how where they go and what they're doing, and yeah, right in all of that, which can either raise the bar of who they're designing with, and be like, I want to learn, I want to design like her so that I can get to know this, or it can make them feel really small. So it could go either way. So sometimes it does help the team, other times because of the inattention to what's happening as far as the boss watching this, see the the what do I want to say, could see the self-worth of the other designers going down because oh, she's coming in and she's faster than I am, and she does more makes a design.

SPEAKER_02 21:12

Oh, I would be comp very threatened if I was a designer and have been there six years, and you bring in Jenny Thomason to work here part time, like right, right talk about, you know, but but you could be either way, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Because if because the Jennies, Jenny would be one who would say, Oh my gosh, Lori, you exactly she would make me feel like I was a super exact, you know. So that would be the difference. I would be through, like you said, I'd be threatened, or it'd be right feeling like, oh, I'm not worthy to be here working with her, but right, could go either way.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

So I would challenge anyone that is in a position of where a new uh designer, especially not really a salesperson, this would be a designer, or if they've hired. On a new manager, you know, somebody that's going to be potentially above you or even at your level to take a step back and instead of worrying, oh, you know, now I'm gonna have to come be think of wow, I'm gonna be able to learn new things from this person, right? What am I gonna be able to learn? Uh because changing your mindset to growth instead of fix is really gonna take a lot of pressure off of you. Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

I mean, it's it's huge when you can look at that. Because if you're learning, right, and you're watching, you might even be able to contribute something to that. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

And I think when you do that, you how you treat them is way, way better. And they're gonna lean in because they might be a little nervous. Again, going back to Jenny, if she was to come in to work, the first thing that would be in the forefront of her mind is I hope we can all get along. You know, I want to everybody so they're gonna be just as concerned about the relationship as you and I've walked into that situation before.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

You are, as a designer, walking into a shop that you've never been into before, and you're in high thing. Um, there's high expectations of you. So any walking into a shop, there would be high expectations, and so you're a little bit nervous, even though you're very confident in what you do, you're not as confident in that situation. So it goes both ways.

SPEAKER_02 23:34

Yeah. So I have a question for you. Um, and this isn't about a shop, but I was thinking about AIFD um when I was through this, and I was thinking how you know you're always back there helping other designers, or there's a whole lot. Is there ever this fear going into that if you're helping a designer? Do you ever feel like, and I mean, I can't imagine because you've been a designer for so long, but that would be if I was a new designer, I would be terrified that I would go back there and they would all judge me.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

I think it's a communication skills, you know. When you go in there, you know that that person does something totally different than you do. So, first off, tell me what you want. I'm gonna start it, and then I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna go, okay, is this the way you want me to do it? Is this so your end result that you want? So I'm not usually threatened or nervous. I'm excited, like you said, because I have that open mindset life. It's like I'm open, I want to learn. Um, one is I want to learn what they are teaching. Um, but I also want to, I'm not a nine, but I'm want to accommodate and I want to make sure they're happy with what I'm doing. So it's both I I'm never nervous when I go work into the back. I'm super excited to work in the back of AIFD, and that's where I are there are there newer, less seasoned designers that come back then all the time, all the time. There's a whole list of volunteers. Like if you want to go to AIFD symposium and you want to be a volunteer, you sign up on that list and they will put you in the design room with someone you might just be sweeping and cleaning up for a while. That's how I started, which is what I'm doing. Exactly. Then I can watch you, you have that chance to observe, and then if you're asking, hey, can I help you do something? If they need you at that time, boy, you're there. So volunteering in the workroom at AIFD or any you know state organization, the volunteer position is to me the best place to be.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

Right. Yeah. So that's I don't know why, but that's what was going through my mind when I thought about status and ego, because that would be a position I would be fearful of. Going, I I was intimidated just going into the design room when Ellie and I went back because god, all these people are so incredibly talented. Like, and and you just all knew I think you and Julie were working with was it Tom Bowling? I can't remember who all you were with, but you guys have been together for so long. Right. Right. You kind of knew like no one was having to tell you how he wanted it or how she wanted it.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

You just knew a lot of times when we're working in the workroom, any organization, then for example, when I did my program at AIFD, Bill McKinley brought his students from Texas CNN, and they come in really like sheepish and not sure what they're doing, kind of like you're talking about. But once you give them the confidence, say, this is what I want you to do, do this, and then keep checking on them, then they're gone. Then then they feel like they're part of your team. And that's that's the key. It's like getting rid of the ego, you know, because that does not create a team. That that is dysfunctional. If you're the ego in the room, it's not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

I will say, do you remember what happened during when we were working on your main stage um presentation in the room? And I was one of your helpers. I I truly was the dysfunctional no, I don't remember the story. You don't remember this? So you had um your daughter-in-law Erica and I were working on a project. It wasn't, it was some sort of I don't know what we were doing. I can't remember. It wasn't arranging flowers, you put us on super simple tasks, and Julie Poulter was back there. I mean, you know, everyone was working. So you had us in the middle on this thing, and I was so excited. Whatever it was, I was using um a knife, which I don't think you've ever let me use since then. The very first task I did slice my finger. I'm like underneath something, and Erica's on top, and I go, Oh, and I said word and I look, she goes, Oh, I mean, it was pretty bad. And we were terrified. We never told you Julie. Thank God for sweet Julie. She saw, she came over, she grabbed me, she took me over, she got me first aid. She's like, That's just between you and me and Erica. We're not told and it hurt.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

I think I do vaguely remember that, like knowing that the next thing or something, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:26

Yeah, we told you afterwards. I'm like, seriously, I cannot be trusted back here. I just let me get so I kind of moved over to the broom and the sweeping and making sure we had snacks. I did stuff, but I just Julie like took the knife. She's like, No more, no more.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

That's that's not a dysfunctional team. That is a total functional team because everybody was dysforting everyone else me anyway. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 28:56

No, it really was, except Erica couldn't stop laughing. She was like almost snorting laughing because she's she was better than I was at it. But anyway, that's my memory of helping.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

There we go. There we go. Well, this is really great information, really, to know what the dysfunctions are of the team, because then you can work on each of these individual items and make a functional team.

SPEAKER_02 29:24

Right, right. So have I convinced you that we should I really, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

I would like to if it's a short book and comic like, I'm in.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

Yeah, yeah. All right, all right, I'll get on Amazon.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

Okay, me too.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

Thank you so much for listening to our podcast. We hope you enjoyed spending time with us because we enjoy spending time with you. If you did, make sure you hit that subscribe button or add the business and pleasure of flowers to your Google morning routine or your class routine.

SPEAKER_00 29:58

So please come back and join us for a little bit of knowledge and one small change in your mindset to take you to new levels in your life and business.