What Your Team Is Really Learning From You: Leadership Lessons That Stick

Episode 346:  What makes a great leader? It turns out, it’s probably not having all the answers.

In this episode, Vonda and Lori unpack a list of management lessons that still ring true after 20 years of leadership—and talk about what they look like in the real world of small business and flower shops.

They dig into why great leaders have to repeat themselves (more than they think they should), how a lack of clarity can look like a performance problem, and why motivating your team may be less important than removing the friction that’s getting in their way.

They also tackle one of the biggest challenges for flower shop owners: letting go. How do you build systems, delegate responsibility, and create a team that can keep the “flywheel” spinning without being dependent on you for every decision?

And then there’s the leadership lesson that might sting a little: your team copies what you tolerate, not what you say.

From difficult employees and avoided conversations to trust, consistency, curiosity, ego, and emotional regulation, Vonda and Lori share what they’ve learned from leading the Flower Clique team—and from years of conversations with flower shop owners.

The biggest takeaway? The longer you lead, the more you realize leadership isn’t about certainty. It’s about staying curious, keeping an open mind, and being willing to ask, Could there be a better way?

Sponsored by:
Flower Clique
Flower Clique Prep School
Real Life Retail Florist

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:03

Don't build dependency. Build momentum. Because they're not dependent on me. I am there watching and listening and making suggestions. Welcome to the business and pleasure of flowers. We're your hosts, Fonda LaFever and Lori Wilson.

SPEAKER_03 0:22

And we believe the business and fun are a perfect combination. Kind of like us, Vonda. Good morning. Here we are. Here we are, Lori. I got my my old mug, my OG mug. Your old mug. I should have brought my other one, but I still like it, but now my coffee is like lukewarm.

SPEAKER_04 0:46

Yeah, I'm into cold water right now. So cheers.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

I got cold water too. Yep. Anyway. I haven't talked to you on the pod since your birthday.

SPEAKER_04 0:58

Had my birthday. How was it? I loved my birthday. It was a great celebration with family and then with friends this weekend. It was great. I loved my new poster because most of you know I'm 65. Yes. And but 65, you have to remember, is only 18 in Celsius.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Oh, you like that?

SPEAKER_04 1:18

But I don't ever want to go back to being 18.

SPEAKER_03 1:21

I don't think I do either. Maybe. No, I don't think I do. No, I don't think I do. I don't know. Maybe back in the mid-30s. Yeah, I was texting with Marlon yesterday, which once it's airs, it'll be last week, because sorry recruitment's coming up this time of year. And so everything on social media is showing in. So he was texting me some fun. Anyway, I was like, oh, I did love college. I loved it. Not the academic side, just the social. I bet you and Marlon both loved the social. Did and we would have totally been best friends in college. But anyway, that's a story for another time. And I will not speak for Marlon, who I know is listening. He will have to come on the pod and we will talk about it.

SPEAKER_04 2:04

Marvelous Marlin.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

Exactly. Speaking of sororities and all girls and all the things. Here's my segue. That was a segue. Flower click, we are trying to do our annual or biannual, whatever, staff retreat.

SPEAKER_04 2:22

We're not trying. Well, I mean, we're trying to plan it. We already have everything booked. We just have to plan it. Everyone is going. Yes. I'm so excited. It'll be so awesome to get everybody together.

SPEAKER_03 2:32

And it's honestly, it is the first time that every one of us, because last time, Donna, our sales gal, couldn't come because her husband got really sick.

SPEAKER_04 2:44

No, she couldn't come because there was a hurricane.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

Oh, that was it. So don't be saying those things because we're not right. She's like, I can't leave my husband here with a hurricane. Correct. Yes. He is a better woman than me. Get me out of here. I would have gotten out of there and said, Mark, hey, text me. Do what you gotta do. Anyway, so I'm excited. I'm excited. But I sent you this article because I thought it would be interesting to kind of talk about from a management business owner leader perspective. And it's just called management ideas, I still believe, after 20 years of leading. And I know you've been doing it a little more than 20 years.

SPEAKER_04 3:30

I think that's important too, but Loria, I think all of us are leaders. Our team, right? I'm the leader, right? Because Ellie and I, but you're a leader, Cammy's a leader. Right. Right. Denise is a leader. Every one of us leads in a different way. In a different way. No, let's I would agree. I would agree. Right.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

Sure, sure. But you and Ellie, you guys are supposed to be and are our models because you are quote unquote at the top. We never really talk about that. It doesn't matter. But if that's not something in our company culture, they're like, hey, we're in charge, and you guys are we've never done that. And I don't think many flower shops really do that either. I would be surprised if because I'm just speaking from the clickers that I talk to, right? They are all like, oh, I don't know what I do if my designer left, or I don't know what I do if my best customers. They are so it's all team. It's about all teams. But these are just good reminders.

SPEAKER_04 4:38

I really liked this. I read it two or three times, right? Because I'm like, okay, let me have the gest of this because it really is important when you're leading to know, okay, it's not about, oh, this is what I say and this is what you do and all that. It's leadership is hard. Management is hard, Lori.

SPEAKER_03 4:59

It really is. We've talked about this before, and I want to pose the question again. Do you believe there's a difference between leadership and management as far as people? If you were hiring, which one would you look for? Somebody that's got, wow, they have some leadership skills. Like I can see how they would definitely influence our team. Or do you look for someone with management skills? Because not all managers are natural leaders, right?

SPEAKER_04 5:32

I look for a leader because I think a leader has respect and they have the trust of the people who are working with them. Management doesn't always have that. I would agree.

SPEAKER_03 5:44

I would agree. Okay, so let's go through some of these. The first one, which we talk about this, I talk about this constantly. We talk about it in our last webinar or our last four webinars, probably great managers repeat themselves.

SPEAKER_04 5:59

I think this person who wrote this article, Tobias Charles, I used to believe experience would teach me a pathway for every situation. Instead, it's given me patterns and instincts that guide me through the unfamiliar. I think that speaks volumes. Before you even get into yes, great managers repeat themselves. A lot of times our experiences, you think, oh, this is going to make me know everything, right? It doesn't. It doesn't always make you that now I got it. You don't ever always have it. No, but it does help you see a possible path. It does. Gives you those instincts when you get to something that's unfamiliar. When I get to something that, oh, I've never had this happen before, but now I can trust my instincts, right? Because so anyway, I just thought that that's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 6:56

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a really good way to look at it. Yeah, his first one was nothing that we didn't talk about before a million times. Repetition should be expected, right? Keeping your message clear and simple and asking them, not do you understand? But what did you hear me say? What give me feedback? Do you are we all on the same page?

SPEAKER_04 7:18

Didn't this speak to you? I was mistaking as poor communication on my side when I had to repeat myself. When it's actually human nature on their side. People aren't always just on this memorize, oh, this is what I need to do. Right.

SPEAKER_03 7:32

Especially, I think about what before you and I turned on record, we were on another project working on the Trello board. And I you were like, Where's that Trello board that Ellie created for us? And I'm like, what Trello board? What are you talking about? And what was a call? And I'm like, oh crap. I've been working on the Google Doc, right? But we talked about one time, and I have done 500 things since then. It's clarity. Thank God you brought me back to the Trello board. And it was clear when she said it. We got it. Yes, but then you have to repeat yourself. We have to remind ourselves and be reminded over. Remember, we're using the and I think that's how mistakes happen a lot because we, I'm including myself, can say one thing to Sherry in email marketing, our wonderful Sherry. And then maybe I didn't write it down, I didn't come back. I whatever. I'm just using that as a random example. And then she doesn't do it or whatever, but that's on me, right? Right. Because I didn't come up with any kind of repetition there.

SPEAKER_04 8:49

That's why you see me constantly do a loom with a screencast of what to do. Because otherwise I'm gonna forget how it's done. And so if I do it to share with someone else, then we always have that tobacco. Yeah. For me to go back and go, oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:06

How do we do that? Right. I think one thing that we can all keep in mind when we do that is we have no idea the frame of mind of that group of people when we're saying this needs to be done. One of them could be sitting there going, oh, I left a sick kid and huh? So whatever. And I think that's part of why. It's not repeat because they're not gonna do it. It's just you don't know what's going on in their mind. Just who knows in that meeting when we talked about the toilet and board, who knows what the hell else was in my head or Yeah, you were thinking about going seeing Boone. Yeah, exactly. I was like, oh, I got a pack. Who knows? And so it didn't get put on a shelf in my brain. I've no memory of it.

SPEAKER_04 9:50

No, and that makes all the sense in the world. And you always go perspective, you know.

SPEAKER_03 9:55

It's a reminder, man, if I'm not gonna remember it, how can I expect somebody else to? So, anyway, that was the first one, which leads right into the second one, right? Most performances or lack thereof is a clarity issue, right? To me, those go hand in hand. He talks about how to make the objective crystal clear. And I'll be honest, I don't think we all do a good job of that. No, internally, we do with our members, yeah, but internally, because number one, we're virtual, it makes it a little bit harder. But number two, we all talk so much every day. I'll say something, but I still have part of it in my mind. And you assume I understand that. Exactly. And I think this isn't just us, I think this is the world, but we make a lot of assumptions. The other person knows exactly what's going through my mind. And I bring up our photo shoot all the time. That's how I feel when I'm there. Yep. Because you and Ellie assume I know the next thing. I'm like, seriously, I'm an idiot. I do not.

SPEAKER_04 11:10

I do not. Haven't you done that, Lori? Where like sometimes you'll write an email and you're like, I'm not gonna send this yet. And you go back to it and you're like, ooh, I certainly missed something on that. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 11:23

That is why when you are sending those kind of emails, my husband was just talking about that. He's like, I have an email in my draft. I'm not gonna send it till tomorrow. Blah, blah.

unknown 11:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:34

And sometimes you leave something out of it and you're like, oh my God, that makes no sense.

SPEAKER_03 11:39

Yeah. I do that. Like, I'll have saved emails, like when people will email me wanting to know about our click mail program or our prep school courses or things like that. And so I have a saved thing that I can copy paste, but I will tell you every single time I tweak it because I'm like, that's not clear. That's not exactly how did I not know that before?

SPEAKER_04 12:01

How didn't I not see that? If I have to send something right away, I find myself writing it out and looking at it again, and then I will drop it in chat GPT and go, does this make sense to you? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:16

I always say read this for clarity. I this needs to be clear and encouraged, clear and kind is usually what I say. And then I'll decide whether I'm gonna do it or not. Oh this one, the you don't need to add motivation when you can remove the friction.

SPEAKER_04 12:37

That's the first thing that people try to do. Oh, I need to motivate. I need to motivate somebody, but they don't realize there if there's friction there, man, man.

SPEAKER_03 12:46

That I'm working on for my presentation at SAF about having the awkward conversation is basically this. You're just avoiding the conversation. And whether that's a whole nother podcast, but on why we avoid them. But when you do, you're just allowing more and more friction and thinking if I just throw incentive at them, that's going to solve the problem.

SPEAKER_04 13:11

One thing I have to say is that I am so blessed. We are so unblessed with Flower Click because I don't feel like I have to do anything to inspire the team. We have such a self-driven We really do. Like, how did that happen? Man, really, it says one of the things is how do I inspire my team to do more? No. Gosh, yeah, everyone is, I want to say, I don't want to say inspired, but but you said it's self-driven.

SPEAKER_03 13:39

We just had our all-staff meeting yesterday, which again, last week when people hear this. And one thing I love about all staff meetings is that I get insight to the web team. I don't live in that world. I will be honest for 30 minutes of that meeting. They're talking a different language to me when I'm like, whatever. But what I love about that is they are all so in it. Oh, here's what we did, here's what needs to be like they're they are so emphatic about what needs to be. How they're doing things, how they're doing things, what needs to be changed, what still needs to be. Yeah. And I'm like, wow.

SPEAKER_04 14:23

I love that that they have suggestions about what can be done better or different or more efficiently. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:31

And that they are all researching their own. But this is what I found how the workaround. And I'm like, God, you guys are so freaking smart.

SPEAKER_04 14:40

Yeah, and they feed off each other. Denise would say something, then Leslie would say something else, but you have created that culture.

SPEAKER_03 14:50

When we go back to the word culture, you created that culture too, because number one, you have never been, at least that from my perspective, a micromanager. You have put in people, women, in positions where you know your gut, you go by a lot of gut checks, they're going to be successful. And yeah, you give them guidelines, absolutely. But that's where I think Flower Click has been so fortunate.

SPEAKER_04 15:26

I think this next one kind of goes into that. Don't build dependency, build momentum. Because they're not dependent on me. I am there watching and listening and making suggestions. Ellie and I, and you do the same. We suggest, but they're not dependent on me.

SPEAKER_03 15:43

If they were, we would change it. They are dependent on you for all the price changes.

SPEAKER_04 15:48

Oh, that's there are certain things that they are dependent on.

SPEAKER_03 15:50

Yeah. For sure. But yeah, that's not not in the everyday. Oh, no, that's a seasonal thing. But no, that's very true. They are not dependent on you. And you don't want them to be.

SPEAKER_04 16:01

No, no. You shouldn't hire someone on your team that's just like you. You need people with other strengths. And we've talked about that before, Lori. I can do certain things, but gosh, I want somebody like you who can, like I always say, everybody needs a lawyer. Lori, and like Ellie, the creative side who gets things done, and the Leslie's and the Allie's and the Sherries and the Denise and the Kimmies, we have to have each one of us because everyone has their own skills.

SPEAKER_03 16:29

Everyone has their own skills. And I think, again, that's also in my presentation about having an appreciation for what other employees do. And I think that's again why staff meetings are important to be able to see everybody else and how they do stuff.

SPEAKER_04 16:47

I love this. You just need to get the flywheel spinning and then step back and let the moment carry it.

SPEAKER_03 16:54

But a lot of flower shop owners that I know struggle with that because they're fearful of delegating anything because this their business is their world.

SPEAKER_04 17:06

Yeah. And so then the next one to set up systems to give that framework. And so in a flower shop, that would be our suggestion, right? Get that framework set up that the designers are doing this, they're passing it off for the driver. But somebody else is coming in that framework and saying, okay, I'm going to look at this to make sure this is quality control and price control. And then it can go out the door. So it's that constant making sure the flywheel's spinning, but it also has that supervision or intervention if needed.

SPEAKER_03 17:40

It does. This one, to be completely honest, was a struggle for me because I don't like boring systems. You don't. I don't like simple, repeatable, scalable processes, but this is not about me. Our web team thrives because of this. That's right. I would think everyone on our web team, Cami, who leads them from to the top down, they have to have scalable, repeatable, like do making the donuts every day. They have to know. Whereas I would struggle.

SPEAKER_04 18:18

But in a flower shop, when you dumb it down, so to speak, that is it. Simple. I'm gonna make a design. Right. I'm gonna repeat that. I'm gonna make sure that I can make a hundred of them.

SPEAKER_03 18:30

And you can take that to our sales prep school, right? Simple, scalable, relatable, repeatable. Do A, B, C, D, boom, you're done. So in that sense, I understand it. But when I see exciting outcomes begin in boring systems, my brain is like, eh, I don't want to do that. And that's okay. That's okay. That's why I'm not on website. That's why you're not why I was never asked to be on the web team. That's why you never did Google Analytics. I never did Google Analytics. This one I think is interested. What's rewarded gets repeated. And it's not always a positive reward, right? Yeah. Yeah. This one I was like, okay.

unknown 19:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:21

If you want to change the behavior, change what you praise. And I think the word praise, I wouldn't have used that there because sometimes we reward bad behavior. And that's with praise, right? But what do you notice? What do you draw attention to? What do you recognize? What don't you address? Yes. Do you avoid talking to the employee that comes in 10 minutes late every day while everybody else who's on time is looking at it, going, she didn't get in trouble. That's reward.

SPEAKER_04 19:52

That's the next one. That's the one I highlighted. Your team copies what you tolerate, not what you say. Yeah. Yeah. That one to me was like, oh my gosh, because you and I've had many conversations with flower shop owners, which they're like, yeah, but if I don't do that, that person might leave. And what am I going to do if I don't have that designer? And I'm like, what would you do if you don't have the designer? You tolerating that or letting that slide is showing the rest of your team that's okay. And it's not okay. What happens if you let that one person go? Is the behavior of your rest of your team going to improve? Because they're like, oh crap, they're serious. They're serious about what's going on.

SPEAKER_03 20:34

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've been having lots of great phone conversations and doing my own research for my presentation about. And I hear that is always one of the stories about an employee that they either fired, or once they left, the owner realized, oh my gosh, she was the problem because she would come to her and be the first to tell her the gossip. I'm quoting that when and she believed her. She trusted her, right? And then she leaves and she realized, oh my gosh, she was the toxic one. Because the whole culture changed. And I'm like, that's fascinating. Because sometimes it is that it's not in your face. Like you're not obviously, uh, I know the problem. Sometimes you just don't.

SPEAKER_04 21:34

Yeah. It's that's hard. Yeah. It's a hard one. Yeah, it's very hard. What was the next one? You build trust with consistency, not kindness. Yeah. Yeah. Which is interesting because I always think it's both.

SPEAKER_03 21:49

I was gonna say, I don't think it necessarily means we have to be mean, but you uh hire people that you can trust because I don't know how you run a business if you don't trust your employees. I think you don't. You don't. My husband grew up with the dad that owned a gas station, the full service gas stations back in the day. They were all everything. But he said when he was a little boy, the one vacation they went on, he came back, and the one employee he trusted had stolen a bunch of like that type of thing. I don't know that every employee will steal, but I'm saying that was a reality. That's why you don't. That's why as a small business owner, you didn't leave. That's why he goes, that's why we didn't go on trips. Yeah. And so easily because it's hard to have somebody, and then he got somebody in that he trusted and it got better. And but it was like a relative. It was like a cousin or somebody that you've known your whole life. And even then, you don't know. I liked this one. This one speaks to me. If you're completely certain about everything on how processes and procedures should go, and you just know this is it, get curious. Which means open your mind. Yep. Be open to new ideas that maybe your employees bring you. Trigger your curiosity, not your certainty. Yeah. I like that too. I love this one because it says it's when we've grown too sure of ourselves that mistakes happen. So true.

SPEAKER_04 23:34

Yep. You know, if I ever face a decision, I'm not a hundred percent sure of what to do. I've learned to treat this as a trigger for curiosity, not certainty. Don't dig your heels in. Get curious and go. Let's think about that.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

Let's think about that. But I think that's hard because we've always done it this way. This is how we're gonna do it. Anyway. And then the last one leading yourself is the most important thing. Emotional regulation. Again, why I have my little post-it note here. Thoughts ain't facts, baby. Oh, just keep that in mind. Your thoughts, that's emotion, that's feeling. But what are the facts?

SPEAKER_04 24:25

You can't remain curious if you can't handle your ego. Oh, how do you like that one?

SPEAKER_03 24:32

Some of these were just one-liners that I just kept going, wow. I think ego, man, that's an interesting word, and it's a trigger word for all of us because we're like, oh, do I have an ego? I know. Yes, yes, you do. We all do. We all do. We gotta check it. We gotta check it every while. But you can't build systems without a cool head and without being able to step back and analyze is there a better way to do this? Okay, maybe you might discover there's not, but being open, effective leadership begins with us, how we think, how we act, how we react to things. And going back to one of the very first ones, everybody's watching.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:21

I liked his ending. After more than 20 years in leadership roles, I'm less certain than I ever was.

SPEAKER_03 25:28

Amen. I think certainty is a scary place to live in. And I will say that because I've never lived in certainty. Never. I am always like, oh, I wonder if there's so I don't know what exactly that feels like. But I can tell you in 15 years of doing what I've been doing, when I talk to people, flower shop owners or managers or even employees, I can immediately decide if they live in certainty or not. Because it's struggle for them.

SPEAKER_04 26:11

I think the two words when I look at this article and read it and we talk about it now at the end, open mind, which we always talk about and curiosity. Continue to remain curious as you're trying to become a better leader. I think that's kind of key.

SPEAKER_03 26:30

It is because again, we should never stop growing, right? Whether it's in our business or our personal life or in whatever. Like always growth is a good thing.

SPEAKER_04 26:43

Everyone needs a lorry to challenge her into becoming curious and keeping your mind open, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_03 26:48

Don't put me in a process-oriented job. No, I will not.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

I will fail. I will tell you immediately, I would not last three days. I would just go, this is boring. I'm gonna go get in my pool.

SPEAKER_04 27:07

And I'll say go, that's where your mind is the most open and curious is in that funny. I think people know that, but anytime I am remotely stressed, Ellie will go, go get in your pool.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Like, okay, you're right, and just an hour, and the world is different. I am so happy. Okay, on that note, I think we're done. I think that's it.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

Thank you so much for listening to our podcast. We hope you enjoyed spending time with us because we enjoy spending time with you. If you did, make sure you hit that subscribe button or add the business and pleasure of flowers to your Google morning routine or your flash briefing on Alexa.

SPEAKER_04 27:52

We look forward to seeing you next week. So please come back and join us to discover how a bit of knowledge and one small change in your mindset can take you to new levels in your life and business.