THE INTERVIEW
Sharon Graham shares with us her journey through a life that 'checked all the boxes' to the opening world of Holotropic Breathwork
- She shares her first breathing experience, and how it transformed her life
- What Holotropic Breathwork is, and what you can expect
- How to participate
- Key things to look for so that you can have the most supported experience
RESOURCES
- www.holotropic.com
- embodiedalchemy.ca for transcription
- @domchesh
- @embodiedalchemy.pod
SPONSORS
Pure Balanxed; ALCHEMY20 for 20$ off at purebalanced.com
Foli; FOLIPOD for 20% off at shopfoli.ca
Carli Paintings; ALCHEMY15 for 15% off under $100 Shop Here
THE INTERVIEW
Sharon Graham shares with us her journey through a life that 'checked all the boxes' to the opening world of Holotropic Breathwork
- She shares her first breathing experience, and how it transformed her life
- What Holotropic Breathwork is, and what you can expect
- How to participate
- Key things to look for so that you can have the most supported experience
RESOURCES
- www.holotropic.com
- embodiedalchemy.ca for transcription
- @domchesh
- @embodiedalchemy.pod
SPONSORS
Pure Balanxed; ALCHEMY20 for 20$ off at purebalanced.com
Foli; FOLIPOD for 20% off at shopfoli.ca
Carli Paintings; ALCHEMY15 for 15% off under $100 Shop Here
Welcome to the embodied alchemy podcast. I'm your host Dominique Cheshire. Embodied alchemy started as a way to describe finding empowerment and has quickly grown into so much more. Embodied alchemy is about feeling the tough stuff and working through it. It's about sharing our stories, speaking our truths and hoping that there's someone out there who feels it too. We are here together to celebrate our ups and our downs because the tough stuff is where the magic happens. I am so excited to be here with you today. Are you ready? Let's go y'all. I am so excited for today's guest, Sharon Graham, who is a facilitator in Toronto of holotropic breathwork is joining me today. She and I met in may of 2019 and I was blown away by the way that she articulated experiences that we were having through that workshop with sound and I just thought this woman is very interesting and I must know more about her, which is when I learned about holotropic breathwork. It's really important to me in my personal life and as I'm sharing that we're always being really intentional with facilitations and workshops and what exactly the promises of those experiences are. I think more and more as we as a society are leaning to learning about nontraditional options, there's also more space for things that are maybe not always um, as safe as they could be to be happening. The education behind what exactly is going on, um, doesn't always happen. And I have my own personal beliefs about being really sacred with, with ceremonies. And so it was such a treat for me to get to chat with Sharon who really dances this beautiful line of being based in work that is more Western and psychotherapy, but then also being so passionate about sharing the practice of holotropic breathwork. So I hope you enjoy, I hope you enjoyed yesterday's sneaky bonus episode where I shared my experience today. It is all about her, all about how she got into holotropic breathwork and what exactly that is in her words. Here we go. I am so excited to share this week's episode with you. But first a quick shout out to our amazing sponsors. Pure balanced, balanced with an X instead of a C is a brand I have personally loved for a little while. Now I have a shirt and a cruise sweater and I love rocking them. Both. Pure balanced is an empowering apparel brand out of Toronto, creating luxurious everyday pieces. All their clothing include a sewn and empowering statement. Simply flip the X to read the affirmation. They're a brand committed to community with 5% of sales donated going to netic and 5% of sales going to friends first. You can check everything out about them on Instagram at pure balanced as well as their blog and online store, which is pure balanced.com. We want you to be able to experience their incredible stuff yourself. So for our listeners, use code outcome me 20 for 20% off your purchase and be sure to listen to founder Alli's story on episode two of this season. I am so grateful to be supported by Carmen Darley of Carly D paintings. She is a resin based artist and Toronto entrepreneur who is excited to offer podcast listeners an exclusive discount on all products, services and experiences. Go to Carly paintings.com to see all the gorgeousness and use code alchemy 15 for 15% off anything under$100 make sure to tune in to episode four of the pod where Carmen shares the journey behind her amazing art. We are supported by fully shipping houseplants in cool pots to doorsteps across Ontario student to be nationwide fully makes welcoming plants into your home or office. Easy and convenient. Choose your plant and pot of choice and within two to three days you're fully will arrive to your doorstep. Plus 95% of all packaging is recyclable. That is important. Fully provides happy, healthy Hardy plants that are easy to care for. Many are locally grown in Ontario. Use code fully pod for 20% off your purchase at shop fully. Dot CA and join the plant obsession. I know I have.
Speaker 2:Um, I was going to ask you if you wanted to, and I don't know if I'll keep this or not. I was just thinking it would be nice for us if you wanted to just do like a together. Amazing. Yeah. So great. Yeah,
Speaker 3:it's going to take us through a nice deep breath in through the nose
Speaker 2:and however you'd like to exhale nose or mouth,
Speaker 3:just the subtle, wherever your feet have landed, feeling the floor or the chair, feeling that rootedness through any point that's connected down, allowing our energy to settle within this really rooted space. My intention today with you is to just glow this conversation. I'm really excited[inaudible] so much amazingness about breathing in you and this whole journey. Whenever you're ready, just
Speaker 4:gently opening your eyes.
Speaker 2:Hi. So first I as just, I feel like I've said a hundred times and so grateful to be sitting here with you and your beautiful space and thank you so, so much for having me in today. I've been so excited about this conversation and seeing you again. We met in may at the sound work experience in Prince Edward County. And we, I feel like we had this beautiful conversation near the end of our time there where I really got to learn about the work that you do and it's sort of stuck with me and marinated with me throughout the rest of the year. And when I was putting together my list of who I really wanted to talk to you right out of the gate, you are like right at the top. So thank you for making time to see me today.
Speaker 4:Well, it's a pleasure and it's an exciting time for you to be involved in doing this and it's um, it's kind of essential. I think that we have an opportunity to talk about some really important things that are available to people to be able to do and explore and, and be part of. This is great.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm so excited. Um, would you like to share a quick little bit about what all this exciting things are, these exciting things are?
Speaker 4:Well, I think there's a lot that's currently available, but my, um, passion and commitment is being to something called holotropic breathwork. And I was drawn to it by sheer accident. I like to say I was, um, I have four children and I was sitting at a dentist waiting for one poor child to have a tooth filled and I was looking through various magazines and I pulled one out completely randomly. And as if by accident it flipped open onto a page and it was talking about a workshop that was taking place, um, in the U S in the Berkshires, just outside Boston. And there was something about it that just, I felt in a strange way that I had to go and I'd never been pulled in that way to really anything. So I go home and I think about it and then a couple of days later I say to my husband, I really want to go to this workshop. I'm not sure why. And he looked surprised cause I had actually never taken time away, really from the family. And then he sort of graciously said, go, whatever I can do to support you, get ahead. And so I ended up at a workshop that was totally transformative, not just for me, but the 140 people that were in the room with me. Um, and, and this was a holotropic breathwork workshop being run. Um, its founder Stan Grof, who's a bit of a legend, um, in the community at large. Both he's assigned his background in science. He was a scientist. He led research into, um, LSD for many years and this, this holotropic breathwork came out of, um, his experiences with expanded States of consciousness and in many respects does a beautiful parallel of what, um, experiences mitigated by a psychedelic. Do we just do it ourselves? Yes.
Speaker 2:What's really struck me when I was chatting to you about this was I had an experience that, I don't know if it's specifically in the holotropic world, so I'm excited to learn more. But, um, I was in Guatemala and a breath therapy workshop had been offered and I was there specifically because I had some layers I wanted to shed and it had been recommended by another friend to me that I, that I do this breath experience. And one of the things that the leader, it was over the course of a few days and the woman leading the workshop, one of the things she had said was that as she came into this work, she felt like, like there were all of these beautiful ways we could expand consciousness. And she had been off traveling the world, she'd been in Thailand and I believe India and, and working in the worlds at these different things and come home. And there had been an opportunity where friends were like, Oh let's, let's create a, our own psychedelic experience. And it was like sort of[inaudible] story. But she then went on to say, she's like, you know, it's funny, we all did the thing and I was like, Oh this is not how you're all living all the time. Cause this is just the state I'm in all the time. And I remember thinking how hilarious that was as she was talking about it. But then after I lived the experience of going through with her specific exercises and feeling that expansion, I was really like, Whoa, this is extremely powerful work. But I also think very important and anytime I think there's something exciting happening, lots of different bandwagons want to be open to it. And one of other than chatting to you and being in your presence, one of the things I'm also really excited about to start to work on knowing more about is how do we do this safely, effectively, so that we're really allowing ourselves to have the experience that our bodies are capable of having without stepping over boundaries. Um, because I do think as, as we get excited, little pockets pop up and, and it's, it's important to know that the world properly. I think. Um, I'm curious to know is sort of just struck me as you were sharing with this world stepping in and seemingly randomly opening page. Have you been at all interested in energy work or spiritual exploration or anything sort of within that scope of what we can access before or was holotropic work sort of your gateway into, into how much there is?
Speaker 4:Hello? Tropic breathwork was the door opened for me and I've witnessed that door open for many others. It is, um, it, it seemed something that was impossible and very foreign and almost, uh, sort of scary. Um, you know, we live in this world of consensus reality and so the notion that there might be something beyond what we experience every day, uh, was just impossible to comprehend and is I think until you've had a, something like a whole entropic breathwork experience. Um, the thing about the holotropic breathwork is that it is, um, day long, um, which I think helps people really own an experience. I think if you go in and come out, it's easy to dismiss it. Um, we are trained for a minimum of two years now, if not more, to support people in the processes that they go through. And some people have, um, very simple, generous, but simple experiences and other people have much bigger experiences, um, that require really thoughtful and careful support. And the holotropic breathwork community has been trained, uh, to support those as well. So it's, it's, I think it's important and I think it's important that we do this work in community. Um, so that we, um, don't feel that we're isolated because it can be very isolating.
Speaker 2:And so you were at the dentist, you had this moment of, I have to go, you went and all these years later or now on S on the end of the spectrum where we're really offering that support. So I would love to know after that one experience, how we got where we are now.
Speaker 4:Well, first of all, I mean, it might be helpful to describe what the experience was because it seemed absolutely ridiculous at the time. So, you know, here I am, the, the workshop was taking place at a place called Kripalu, which is a main major healing arts center. It's the largest one in North America. So there were hundreds of workshops going on that one weekend. And I originally thought that there would just be a few people, you know, I was astonished when people from around the world had shown up to do this work. Um, and Stan is this huge, generous, um, compassionate human being. I mean he's, he has, his presence is huge. Both, he's very tall and, and, and broad, but his energy is very present. And he, uh, got up and described how we were going to lie on the floor and breathe in a rapid second emotion, um, until something surprised or changed for us. And I remember thinking, I think I've come to the road and were you by yourself? He was by myself. And I thought, Oh my God, if anyone at home knew what I was doing, they would, you know, cause immediately, and I was just, I was just again, this totally foreign foreign experience for me. And um, and holotropic breathwork is done in pairs. And so at one point, you know, the 140 people who have not filed a partner. So, you know, let's say at least half of them stood up and I, you have to find a partner in this group. And that was threatening in itself. Um, and what I've discovered since is there's some beautiful organic symbiology that seems to happen, how you find your partner in these scenarios. Um, and I found, um, a lovely gentleman who had flown in from Chile who had come to do this work and, and immediately he had children about the same age as mine. And immediately there was kind of sort of a comfort level. So I offered to go first and he, he offered to sit. And as I laid down on the floor[inaudible] it's done to music. There's first a relaxation and then, you know, at the end, this in an, in a moment the music will start and the music started. And I honestly felt as if the music had scooped me up and was taking me on a journey. And it was the most astonishing experience because I could hear noise of people around me who were equally being, we're joining in one way, shape or form. And, and there was laughter and there was crying and, and, and there was sense of movement and so forth. So my journey was profound three hours long. I experienced, um, I experienced the birth of my children. I experienced, um, a sense of having touched something that I at the time described possibly as God. Um, and I came back and I thought, wow, you know, like, and when we shared at the end of the day, everyone had had profound experience. It was not one who, some who did not have something that awakened in them or shook them or changed the way they saw the world. And I knew at that moment that
Speaker 2:this was for me, something that I wanted to be involved in profoundly involved. It's almost like a, like you were experiencing the birth set of your children, but then you were also being born too into just me experiencing life. So how do you go from having this incredibly transformative experience to then getting back on a plane and going home? How does that transition? How does that work? How did that work for you?
Speaker 4:Well, that's a really critical question because I think, um, you know, it's what do we do with our experience? That's true. You know, if we have a great dinner or we, you know, have a great exercise class, you know, what do we do with that? And I think, um, for me, I wasn't psychotherapy at the time. I was actually training to be a psychotherapist. So I had a, a good, um, support network that I could go and, and be part of. We're very cautious in holotropic breathwork to say, be careful who you share these experiences with for two reasons. One because, um, they can, um, make you feel Oakwood, but I think more importantly, they can diminish the experience and they can make you believe that what you experienced was ridiculous or inappropriate or whatever. So I think increasingly that's less the case. And Sydney, as we build a community which is thriving now in Toronto, you've got more and more people who are connected to these experiences. So it's not as isolating. But what I came home with perhaps was the aspect of sitting I. E. I had sat the whole atropic experiences three hours for four morning, enough to noon. So one person breeds in, one person sits for that period of time. And the aspect of sitting is interesting because you realize very quickly you have no idea what is going on inside someone who is, they're jetting. And um, you know, my partner was crying profusely and my immediate reaction was, Oh, I got it, I got it, comfort or help or whatever. And when he came back he said, wow, I was, I was crying with joy. Right? So I had no, you realize you have no concept, you have no idea of what's going on. And so this notion of coming back into the world and being present without trying to fix and that began a jet, a different journey of parenting, a different journey of friendship. Um, one that I still struggle with, but um, but one that I, I think is, is really critical in, in a, in a very convoluted and confused world.
Speaker 2:I have so many questions. I mean, to start kind of where you left off. So it's so, I so resonate with what you're saying about you can see someone having an experience and through your lens often we see crying is sadness. But in the truth, that person was actually having a really joyous moment and taking that information and integrating it into everyday life is so I feel so different cause there's, it's so hard to watch the people you love be in pain and although it's always a journey. When you came home, did you feel that immediate recognition as well of like, Oh, I see this behavior pattern, maybe I should step back? Or was it like over time re noticing and re learning?
Speaker 4:It was like first of all, coming back after the first breath work. I think coming out of there was so much that you are, um, that you're coming to terms with the, your, you know, your, this isn't, this is like seeing a movie for the first time. Right? It's like, wow. Um, and um, and you are profoundly changed, you know? And so I think in answer to your question, it's ongoing, right? It, it's, it didn't, didn't happen. Didn't happen immediately or easily. I have done now, uh, close to 50 holotropic breathwork largely because I wanted to understand the experience in as deep a fashion as I could. And I wanted to be part of other people's experiences and as a profounder away as I could. And each time the work happens, there's a little bit more of you that comes forward in a meaningful way. Um, so it's a process. It's now it's sadly, it's not a one stop shop. And as we know,
Speaker 2:Oh I used to think that would be so nice if there was like, Oh yeah, I do this thing and then it's done and it's over. But now I'm really starting to recognize how sweet journeys can be. And it's kinda nice that it's not only one time cause every time you do something that's a little bit different, a little bit more, which is hard for me as a person who likes to get things done very quickly and check off my list. But I'm starting to enjoy the process a little bit more. And I think that's what a lot of this work is, is it's processing. And as we learn, we're also, it's not like we're stuck in a moment in time either. We're always evolving. And so that work is always going to change every time you[inaudible].
Speaker 4:So how long,
Speaker 2:how long between your first holotropic experience and your second one?
Speaker 4:Well, immediately I tried to find someone locally who offered it was Toronto. And um, and I, at the time there really wasn't, um, it was hard to find someone, you know, you want someone who's really certified, who knows their stuff. You also have to look for, you have to do it in a triad, meaning that there has to be a facilitator, someone who sits and someone who breeds. And so, uh, trying to find someone who would come with me to do this was, uh, was a bit of a challenge I have to say. And in the end I did find someone, um, just out seeing King city who was offering holotropic breathwork at the time. And I did three or four, uh, really powerful sessions, um, in, you know, in a small group and then quickly realized it's the big groups. It's the larger groups where you really, um, yeah, it's just, it's like, it's, there's such an energy that's present with a group of people doing this work that it's, it's a whole different ballgame in essence. Right. And so, so then I started to travel extensively to find the spots, particularly in North America, but lots of places in Europe as well that offer it. And then that became fascinating cause you're meeting people again from all over the world and recognizing that it didn't matter where they were from, everyone was having an experience of one sort or another. Um, and, and consistently, like it wasn't, it wasn't sort of just Stan had been doing a workshop, so experienced this happened. It didn't know that wasn't the case that holotropic breathwork has, um, powerful experience. It's no matter where, where on the planet you, you are.
Speaker 2:Is there anywhere in the world specifically that this seems to be
Speaker 4:where it's happening or is it really this global community growth? Well, I like to think Toronto is really beginning to be, um, where it's, it's happening. Um, and Canada in general. Um, traditionally it's been out of the U S and still has a large, uh, sort of community, um, of elders and so forth who hauled that work. But, um, I love the notion that Canada has something very special to offer this work. Um, I think we have a, a beautiful openness in general, um, in, in this very crazy world. I think Canada has something really unique, so it's building strongly here. And so it's exciting to be doing this interview at this time and, and to be talking about the potential that exists. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's so interesting. I, I F I feel like when, when we're talking about things that are maybe not so traditional, it often feels like they've been rooted somewhere really far away. And even though I'm very new to this, to know that there's this very powerful opportunity for people coming out of Toronto is I feel a sense of pride about that. That's very cool.
Speaker 4:I mean, our time, I think in some respects, our time is now[inaudible] and, and it's, it's wonderful to be in that position at this time, Canada. Yeah. Yeah. That's really an important spot. Next to North, you know, next to the U S I think we,
Speaker 2:and so as you're doing more and more of this traveling, more, getting involved in the world more, are you still continuing psychotherapy or at this point, are they, do you find that they work together or have you really started to send your focus to the holotropic world? This is my own, I'm curious.
Speaker 4:Right? Well I think psychotherapy has a huge, um, uh, talk therapy I should say has had plays a huge piece in, in, in trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together. So I continue to do talk therapy. Um, I am committed now to, um, doing a meditation daily if not one, two. I find that that somehow connects me to, um, that field of consciousness that I experienced some holotropic breathwork. I feel that there's kind of, there is this sort of quantum field that Einstein talked about that exists just beyond the no one field that we live in. And that access to that field comes through, um, expanded States of consciousness, um, and, and, and sitting quietly is where we get to them. So, um, so that has been the richness of my journey has been that in order to keep the hollowed Tropic breathwork experiences alive, I have committed to sitting not in a full holotropic experience, but just sitting in that sort of meditational space.
Speaker 2:Mm. And I think that's an important point too, that it's amazing to make space for these bigger experiences to happen, that it's equally as important to find something every day that helps remind you or stay connected to that. And it doesn't have to be a big thing. It can be, even if it's just five minutes where you just sit with yourself. I mean it would be amazing if we had more time than that, but sometimes that truly is all you have is five minutes. And I love, thank you for, for bringing that up as well, that the little things are just as important as the big things to keep the momentum going and to keep that experience supportive, supported, I should say in your, in your body to a point. Do you decide this is something I want to be more involved in and begin to train? And knowing it's a two year minimum process that you have a lot going on already. What was that process like to want to kind of evolve to that next layer of
Speaker 4:the breath work? It was a big step and I think, um, really challenging. I had, you know, four youngest children while they were close to teenagers at that point. And, and I, I really felt that there was a need for me to step out beyond the boundaries of, of parenting. I had, I was blessed, you know, I had had, um, sort of a, a really rich experience in, in business. I'd been the vice president of two companies. I had four children and I had a beautiful house. I had a happy marriage. I had, you know, in essence ticked all the boxes that anyone could ever wish to tick. And yet I knew that was something more and more essential. And so I approached my husband, uh, who had seen huge change in me and sort of said, I'm really thinking of pursuing this on a, on a bigger level. And he said, I cannot be part of that journey. So there was, um, there was a real moment of hard truth where we looked at each other and he said, is this important to you? And I said, yeah, that's really important. And then he said, then we can't stay married. So that was, that was a really, um, distinct and important choice that I made. And, and really through everyone around us into chaos. I mean, here we were, right? We had, we have and have continued to have a really meaningful close friendship. And I consider it his generosity in his ability to step aside and say, this is not my journey. This is not, I'm not into this stuff. Um, and you need that space. So I have to step outside that and give you that. And so that is in essence, I mean six years of really working through stuff and then the separation, uh, and in the end has happened, which again I think indicates, uh, to the people who know me how important I feel this work is that I would not ever have stepped away or outside, um, a traditional, um, situation and role model, um, to just do something that was, that I didn't feel had something of merit and of critical importance. So
Speaker 2:did you find in that process, in your practice that that was an important part of working through all of that decision making and how did it help?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, I think very much. I think, you know, the, the, the quest for the self, you know, who are we and what are we, um, had been defined up until then by the life I was living and, and everything that I had. And I think I realized that somehow I was missing the point, right? And it, and it, and it was a really radical awakening. And yet what I see now is more and more people feeling like they've missed the point. And so I just feel somehow maybe I was a bit ahead of the bell curve, that there is this inherent sense within us that we're missing the point that this cannot be it. And, and so I, I, I began to appreciate that in many respects we are spiritual beings having a human experience. And by that I don't mean religious or whatever, but there's an aspect of us that I feel we're able to touch in that other field that is so inherent in who we are that when we come back having touched it, we're beginning to be the hole that we're looking to be.
Speaker 2:[inaudible] thank you for sharing all that. I'm like, yes. Yes. It's interesting too, cause I, um, the more texts that I, I've been exploring and reading, there's this overall theme of no matter what so far anyway, but whether it's religious or spiritual text, everything has this theme of right now is considered like the dark age, but not a dark age in that like we're all going to suffer the dark age and that we're all starting to realize that there's more. And so it's so interesting that you say that because I feel like that myself and I feel like that with the community I have around me personally because those are the people I connect with the most. So those are the people I have these conversations that the most that I do feel like there's beyond just maybe the small group who, who are often questioning anyway, but there is this overall global community sense of, wait a second, we've been doing this and what's happening, and I have been leaning into this idea of like, okay, yes, maybe something can be called dark or hidden, but that really just means it's the journey to the discovery and journey to the light. And that's the process again of that's where the learning happens. That's where the excitement happens. And it's also I think important kind of in conjunction with this, that there, there is no real failure, that you are either achieved the thing you looked for or you learned from it. And that I think is inspiring too. I mean, especially going through difficult experiences where as you expand, it means maybe outgrowing the spaces that you've created. But knowing that none of the, the growing means that there's a failure, it just means more, which is such a cool relieving I think I idea.
Speaker 5:Yeah. I mean I think that's beautiful because I do what I, what I experienced time and time and time again was like came up against the dark side, the shadow side aspect of myself that I hadn't, uh, wanted to explore and look at and I was kind of being pushed into doing that. Um, so, you know, um, a difficult childhood had, wanted to go back to that, hadn't wanted to look at that. Um, and the holotropic experience held space for me to be able to do that and then took therapy, talk to me through that. And I will say that I had more dark nights of the soul then I thought was humanly possible survive. Um, you know, we have this notion that there's one night, one dark night hit the soul. In other words, we fall into one deep depression that seems a movable, that we feel that we cannot carry on, that the world is an impossible place to live in. And then we come out the other side and, and you know, we are awakened into a brighter light. Um, and, but for me that was, that was many, many, many falls into what felt like very dark, deep holes that I was worried often that I felt maybe I wouldn't come out of. And I think that's part of the work we're being asked to do is to go to that shadow and sort of playing ourselves in the shadow to be able to S to wear that, to say, yeah, no, I'm human. Right? And, and, and, and, and coming out of that means that we're less triggered every day by things that are happening because we've dealt with someone saying to us, as a child, I don't like your dress. And when someone as an adult says, I don't like your dress, it doesn't, it doesn't bring you back all the way through the other experiences that you've had. So it's not, it doesn't, it doesn't, you don't connect to it anymore. It doesn't mean what it used to. And that's, and then from that you can live with a greater sense of peace.
Speaker 2:And it's interesting too, especially I have been working with a therapist on inner child work myself. And it's so interesting what comes up that you wouldn't even necessarily understand unless you're in these sort of alternative mind spaces that they can even be connected, that it's something you're even holding onto. But then when you take the time to go there and, and like hug that version of you, it is. So, it's so true. You're saying you embrace that shadow, you kind of let it, you wear that skin for a moment, but with the information that you have now as an, as a more human lit experience lived person. And it's so true. I've, I mean, I'm nowhere near as much experience as you have had in 50 holotropic and diving the world. But even the little pieces, again, those little things that I've done, it's unbelievable how transformative they can, they can be, which is amazing. Um, okay. I'm gonna circle back.
Speaker 5:Right. I'm just going to add to that, which I think is kind of interesting is I think you begin to touch an aspect of yourself as sort of higher wisdom and knowledge as Sage newness. Um, and, and that becomes the meat and potatoes of everyday life and, and so there is a huge payoff for it and it's difficult as it is. There is this sense that you are connected to a wisdom that's greater than your own. And that I think it's really helpful
Speaker 2:and I love that, that greater wisdom, although greater than our own, it's still within us, which is an incredibly, I think empowering experience to connect to that. It doesn't have to be an external thing that we really do have so much within us. I'd love to know, I know we've kind of really beautifully went over your experience that for anyone who's like, okay, I'm hooked. I want this experience. I, what is it? Can you maybe walk us through what is it like to, you decide to come to a class, what are we wearing? What is the space like what, how exactly do we go through that process as a breather and then maybe we can touch on as a sitter as well.
Speaker 5:Lovely. I'd love to do that. Um, so I immediately, I find when you walk into a whole introvert breathwork, uh, community, um, there are caring community people who are there to who just see you. There's no, there's like, there's no expectation of who you have to be or how you have to be. We have people who show up, um, you know, who've had a sleepless night because they'd been totally panicked and they're worried they're going to fall asleep, you know, when they lie on the floor. And then there are people who are, who have done all sorts of journeying using all sorts of substances who show up and, and imagine that they have seen and done it all. Um, so the first is, it's just showing up and, and, and often we find people register and they start to have dreams or what we call synchronicities, where, um, a synchronicity is when something happens outside of you that you feel is related to you. So a classic one that I've often had is I'll think of someone and a piece of music that I relate to them shows up somewhere. I'll be in a store or, or on the radio or whatever, or a book will open and I'll be thinking about something in a book will open on that page. So people often experience once they've signed up for these workshops, that there's like this, this lovely window that starts to open for them and, and, and they start to have dreams that many of them, many people just don't have time to remember their dreams. We know we dream every night, but so often people come in in some strange way. Um, the cosmos has prepared them for their journey. Um, we, uh, everyone sits in a circle and everyone, we explain the process. So basically as I described earlier, you will, you pair up with someone. Um, they're the processes. Three hours of breathing in the morning and three hours of breathing in the afternoon. And mats are set up around the room and you choose a spot that feels the best for you. And we invite people to bring blankets and eye shades and pillows, whatever makes them feel, um, the most sort of comfortable. And um, we then come around, anyone who's facilitating comes around and checks in with whoever's breathing. Um, and then we do a brief relaxation and then the music begins. The music is a critical part of the experience. It is divided into three components. The first is powerful sort of call to action music. And it's fascinating because it really does seem to harness the breadth for people. And I actually think the breadth is a bit of a misnomer because people get, because we call it holotropic breathwork, people get all caught up and how they're going to breathe. Is it going to be in through the nose or out through the mouth and how long, three hours of breathing. And so it actually is an incredibly simple process. It is just breathing deeper and faster in a sort of circular emotion with less space between the inhales and the exhales. And this is all guided as it is and it is done. It is, it is. You engage initially very much in the breath because you're very aware that you have to be breathing. But often people find that as soon as something starts to happen, which can happen very quickly, but generally within the first 20 minutes is that they can let go of the breath and, and, and, and you do not have to breathe in that rapid circular motion for the whole three hours. It's sort of like a wave where you comes in on you, you haven't experienced, you breathe, something comes into your consciousness and you, you enjoy that before, uh, you need to breathe again. Um, the experiences are probably worth talking about because they're many different experiences there. There are several categories of experience. So the first you can experience anything that you've experienced in your current lifetime. Many people, um, experienced their actual birth, which is fascinating because it's actually perhaps the first trauma we ever experienced was the, um, the second is the transpersonal realm, which is the, the realm that is just outside or known an experience where we can feel ourself as one with the universe or can feel ourself as a tree or a plant or anything that does not involve ego. Basically where ego is not involved. Um, personal life experiences are, um, sometimes expect or seem to be experienced. And again, we say we, we seem to experience them. Cause of course we can't be certain that we have had this post life. But many people, um, recount how it suddenly feels like it was a past life experience. Some people just experience physical, physical, um, things in their body, whether it's some, you know, twitches or spasms or, um, some people feel need to move, some people feel that they do. So there's a range of experiences. And, um, and we understand clearly from all the holotropic breathwork sessions that we've witnessed is that there is this inner healing wisdom that brings forward on the do breathing. Um, what is going to be most supportive to someone moving forward in their life. It's interesting, I still want to talk about as well,
Speaker 2:um, but a lot of the things you're describing, I have also heard be described when a sacred plant medicine like Iowasca and of that world are being used. Um, and so I'm wondering, any thoughts or comparisons as to those kinds of experiences? Um, I know for what I have learned about sacred plant medicine ceremonies is sometimes there's, um, some cautions if you, you ha not to have had certain medications within a certain period of time if, you know, you're prone to certain kinds of anxieties or addictions, that kind of stuff. And because they seem to be very similar physical experiences. Um, I'm wondering if there's anything like that with holotropic and then comparing the two.
Speaker 5:Well, interestingly enough, people who have had sacred plant experience do show up at holotropic breathwork experiences and many of them are surprised at the power of the experience of the holotropic experience over the plant. Um, it seems that when the experience is not mitigated by something, when it is your own breath that directs the journey, that the experiences that much more powerful. And, um, so I will say that there is, there is a compact, very strong comparison between the two. There are very few contrary indications to doing holotropic breathwork. Um, what, uh, we are always, we do ask people to complete a medical form so we have a clear understanding of what conditions they might have had previous and what medications they're on. But by and large, other than sort of major cardiovascular illness, um, is pregnancy. Okay. Pregnancy and early pregnancy is fine and it's actually been beautiful to, to watch a, a really a really, um, sort of for a month work with a, uh, a woman who was four or five months pregnant and how, I mean, we supported her hugely through the process. Um, and so that was, that was really, uh, a beautiful, a beautiful thing to sort of be part of.[inaudible]
Speaker 2:cause that's nice to know that, you know, it really can be, as long as you have a support system around you to support you through stuff, which I know community is a, is something you're very passionate about. And I would assume that that's sort of why is because you have these profound experiences and you'd mentioned at the beginning that, especially if it's your first one, you can kind of come out and, and maybe want to share it, but then also have to have data hold back a little bit so that it doesn't get demeaned in any way or taken away. And so I can imagine why you would want cruise start building that community outside of just breathwork experiences in the city.
Speaker 5:Yeah. So we actually, I mean it has really stemmed out of the holotropic breathwork community itself. And what we're now saying to people who have done a breathwork, um, is we're looking to put together events periodically throughout the year that people, even if you never plan to breathe again, if you've had that experience, um, you know, come and be part of it. And I think, uh, that just supports humanity in this, in this whole experience because it is a human experience that we are going through right now. Um, and I, I agree with you that we are living in, in a time of great transition, great change, um, and that these are all things that we need to come together in a community to upsetting and be part of. And holotropic breathwork is just one of several very important ones that I think are available.
Speaker 2:And I think that makes sense to saying that the very, very bare minimum requirements are this triad of a facilitator, a space holder in a breather. And so then if as we transition into being the sitter, I can, I can hear the people, some people I know in my head being like sitting for three hours Dom, like what do I do for that whole time? So I would love to know what that experience is like for the person holding space for the breather.
Speaker 5:I think it varies and I think it depends on whether you breached in the morning or not. Um, so I think first of all, the notion of being present for some people is easier than others. And what's lovely is in, because you are sitting as a group, you can see other people sitting and you can get a cue from other people as to how to sit because some people just haven't got a clue. They've never sat, Oh, so you know, what does that look like? And so, um, what I had seen is that people learn so much from each other in this kind of setting. Um, it depends on the, the uh, the experiences. The sitter depends also on how active your breather is. So some breathers are very quiet in their experiences and they look like they're first asleep for the period of three hours that the music is going on and you were sitting, other people are moving around and need a lot of support. And so a facilitator will come over and work with someone who's moving and then, but tries to engage the sitter in supporting that person as well.
Speaker 2:What does that support kind of look like? Obviously not restraining them but just like making sure there's blankets, making
Speaker 5:sure blankets are around and pillows and um, yeah, and just generally really beautifully holding space for whatever is going on. So that person who in whatever their physical experience is an emotional experience feels completely safe. She has complete permission to do whatever they need to do. Um, so I, I think often the music is just what keeps people sitting to the music is such, um, so engaging typically that people can sit through the period of time because the music is keeping them engaged in the process. Um, and we actually, sometimes people come as couples and we recommend that you do not breathe as a couple. Yeah, I mean we, we, we never say don't, but, but the notion is how difficult it would be if you are partnered with someone. And we have seen situations where, you know, a partner is having a really hard time and as a sitter you have to, you have to honor it is their process and you cannot fix it. Um, so I think it, I think it, it's sort of, it's, it's, it's varied, but whatever it is it is and whatever you take permit, you take permit and there's value in every ounce of every minute that you're involved in any kind of this work. And so often it will, it might bring up things that are happening for you too, that you, that you, um, are needing to address. So the notion is you show up at a holiday Tropic breathwork. There is this inner healing wisdom that says, I'm here. I want you to be, well, I want your psyche to be well, well done. You've shown up to do the work and now you have to let go of the egoic self that does not want to be seen to be lying on the floor. Either. Could be, you know, in a group, you know, with fear that I might cry. And what will people think if I cry? Letting that go and letting this inner healing wisdom that so wants us to be well to come forward and, and to do its work for us. So do you ever have people,
Speaker 2:is there ever, I should say, is there ever a possibility that someone can go too far in an experience? Has there ever been a situation where you kind of have to facilitate bringing them out of it a little bit? Or is it really just it is what it is?
Speaker 5:Well, often in the one day workshops it's, it's not an issue, but people, there are workshops which are two or three or four days in length or five or six days a month. And that's tends to be where people have the, the really meeting experiences, right. And actually really are in the process for the duration of time that you are there. You are being supported by this community to really let you seep into whatever it is that's coming up for you. Um, but, but in the one day workshops they tend to be, um, think you, people tend to be able to come in and out of the holotropic state very easily. And in fact, even, you know, whenever you're in a hollowed Tropic state, you have the ability to come out of it at any time largely. Um, so when people need to go to the washroom, you, you have the ability to, you know, get to a washroom and, and get back. You're accompanied by your sitter. So you are aware, you're still aware that there is another dimension of reality that's really there. You just sort of sit often in two different places at once.
Speaker 2:Is there, um, like a book end to the whole experience? So we were saying that the, the breathing experience, and I would assume it's the same morning and night. It starts with the or afternoons, right? Starts with the relaxation to get into it. Once the two sessions are done, is there anything final that happens at the end?
Speaker 5:Well, there are a couple of things. So, um, after you done your breath work, you're invited to draw Mandela and um, and actually in, in Toronto what we do is at the end of the session we come around and we'll hand you some crayons and a piece of paper. And before you've even stood up, we say put down on paper, anything that comes to you, it might be part of your experience or it might be something else all together. Um, so those are interesting pieces because they become sort of the take home piece that you get to have at the end of the second breath work. We always have a very generous meal because the notion is that you want people to be grounded. And when I say generous, I mean it's sort of, you know, sort of, uh, um, Amit Chile and grounding, right? And then we come together as a circle. Um, we invite people to bring them in dollars if they want, but we ask people to share what their experiences were briefly. You know, we don't need the full, you know, storyline, but what people experience when they share is that there is another sense of ownership that comes forward and it's not unusual to find people who've had similar experiences. And I will value what you say because the color is what I have learned. So there's a real sense at the end that you are a bit of a tribe and that you are coming back as the tribe and sharing your experiences. So it's, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really enjoy, I really enjoy group experiences after shared experience that I think even if, so for example, for me, I, um, I'm very comfortable now sharing about my experience through being in an accident and what that looked like and I'm comfortable sharing it now. But three years ago I definitely wasn't, but I still wanted to participate in the community and I think I got a lot from hearing about other people even when I wasn't specifically ready to share. And like you're saying that even that piece on its own has some very potent qualities to how it can help. I'm wondering why three hours as you've said it, I'm like, Oh yeah, okay, three hours, three hours. But why three hours
Speaker 5:for asking that question. So it's actually really important. And when you've experienced it, you'll kind of see why. So the psyche has to go out and come back and three hours gives your you a chance to have the full experience of going out and the safety and certainty of coming back. Anything less than that is not considered a holotropic breathwork experience. And so it is this, this enormous body of enormous body of time we consider in this world that we live in. It's actually small in comparison to the body of knowledge that's out there for us to be part of. And so it's really, um, meaningful to, to, to have that three hours and the music changes very distinctly. So the first is the call to action. The second is this breakthrough music, the, you know, the Epic movie music, which people typically touch big emotional on or big change on and then coming back this gentler music that brings us back to ourselves and who we are. And many people find that the biggest experiences Tom in the quieter music, that it isn't the driving, you know, call to action. It isn't the breakthrough, but it is in that quiet, peaceful coming back into oneself. That one has these profound understandings and experiences. So it's rich and it's worthwhile.
Speaker 2:And so as we're considering, cause we've mentioned it together, we've mentioned it a few times as we're starting to look at how do I do this safely? Anything that's under three hours, not consider holotropic and probably maybe not a good idea to do it any way. What kind of other things is where as this world is growing, especially in Toronto, do we want to make sure people are looking for, to make sure that if they want this holotropic experience, I mean obviously they should come to you and the community, but outside of the three, what else
Speaker 5:would we say to be really mindful for when you're looking to find this practice? Well, in the whole Tropic experience really it's, as I said, it's better if it's done in community. And, um, I, I tend to say come to the bigger groups and come to tr, you know, come into the city and take the time and be part of it here. Not because I think I'm I or the group of us that run it and to hold her any better than anywhere else, but because I think we are better equipped. We've got more people, we've got a beautiful facility, we have extra support if needed. Um, and so I can, I can, I can know, I can say safely that, that people will be well held when they come to us. Um, I have become increasingly concerned by, um, people who, you know, are going out and, and really experimenting. You Iowasca every second weekend and, and, and it's, and it's sacred. This is sacred medicine. This is sacred work. And, and this notion that, you know, particularly with the, with the iOS and you can be blown apart and, and coming back together is, is an intricate business. And so I've grown concerned that people just shortcut the, coming back in and, or in some respects building kind of super egos where I can go and do an Iowasca, you know, ceremony, you know, every couple of weeks. Cause I, you know, I have the capacity. Um, it really is not about that. Right. I think using your intuition and your common sense are two critically important things that you need to keep in mind. I think, you know, just think about it carefully, you know, really do your research before you step off that diving board because it is a diving board. Um, and, but don't be shy. So there's a balance between, between doing it and then being terrified and not doing it. I think we owe it to ourselves to do something, whatever that is, you know, from my perspective obviously because it doesn't involve ingesting anything and because it's community days, I feel that holotropic breathwork has a really valuable place in that. But I'm don't pretend to for a minute to think that there are equally valuable things that people will discover. Just as I discovered holotropic breathwork, it came to me. Right. I think when we are supposed to do something, it's sort of, it shows up for us, you know, we'll keep, you know, whether it's, I don't know, um, whatever it is you keep you running into it, posters, ads, people talking about, and you all of a sudden realize, Oh, okay, this is something I should be doing. So I,
Speaker 2:as far as facilitators go, um, I'd love to know just sort of quickly what the process is to become a physicist, facilitator. So then when we're doing this investigation and as maybe you're shy, but want to ask questions to make sure it's a safe space, what kind of questions do you want to ask other facilitators as far as what qualifies them to be able to hold the space?
Speaker 5:Have they been certified? Prograf transpersonal[inaudible]
Speaker 2:and it's that, that's like the only one that
Speaker 5:gotcha. Right. And, and, and in that, in that lineage, in that training, um, you have been put through your paces, turned upside down. You've had to create music. You've had to, um, um, sort of create opening ceremonies and closing ceremonies. You've really, you've really had the full enchilada in terms of what needs to be done to do it well. And it has to be done over a minimum of two years. Um, most people take longer, um, to, to do it than that, but, but two years is the minimum because you really have to have done your work in order to be able to hold space for others. Yeah.
Speaker 2:If people are, well I shouldn't say F as people have listen and just are like jumping out of their skins. Excited to find this experience in Toronto. Where can they find you? Where can they find holotropic breathing in the city?
Speaker 5:Well actually I shouldn't limit it just to Toronto because it is available in other cities across Canada, across the world, across the, but also so in Canada it's the holotropic breathwork, Canada, um, site that people want to go to. Um, and that gives all the lists, all the workshops that are taking place across Canada. It's, they're posted on a regular basis. It's rather fun cause you get to see other workshops that are taking place in other places and you might decide, Oh, I like go to Montreal for a weekend and do one there. I'm going to be at NBC and I might want to do one there. So that is, that's, that's the offering and that's where you can find all the facilitators that are being trained
Speaker 2:after traveling anywhere. Do you have any city internationally that you're like, Hmm, yeah, I like to go there when I'm traveling internationally.
Speaker 5:I think the place, the spot that really resonates for me is in Spain. Costa Brava cause you are right on the ocean and it is the bender terrainian and you are, you actually breathe. And then I achieve where my swimsuit under my whatever I'm wearing and I literally peel off whatever and go into the water and there's this incredible sort of, there's just this incredible sort of sense of and, and joy and, and being in water. So we say part of integration really is, you know, water hot salt bath, great for integration. Um, continuing to journal and write painting even if you don't normally paint it, get some paints out and just have fun with it. Um, walk in nature. Um, I personally have, have always, since I started to do holotropic breathwork had a little what you would term as an altar but a little place that I bring something of me to on a regular basis. And um, and so that's become a beautiful way to integrate this work as well.
Speaker 2:Before we sign off, cause I, I really feel like we could probably continue reporting over breakfast, lunch, and dinner. And do it over weekend. And so I already feel like I still have so many questions that I would love to sit down with you again in the near future. Hopefully. Bet. As we're closing off today's chat, is there anything that you really feel like you want people to golf home really knowing or that there's any anything calling you to want to final final thought it out?
Speaker 5:Well, I think first of all, thank you for this lovely opportunity and for opening a door that is so beautiful and essential for people at this period of time. I just invite people, particularly as we begin, you know, a new decade, which is really hard for us to embrace, is really for us to really start to open new doors, to think about the world in a different way, to explore possibilities, to understand that, you know, more is yet to come and that we are part of an evolving story that um, consciousness has a different place where it can go for all of us. And it's an exciting, it's an exciting journey.
Speaker 2:I think if, if there was one word to describe, I think how I feel right now in this moment, but also about moving in to this new decade is exciting. It does feel really exciting. Thank you so much for your energy, your time. I'm just, ah, I'm just so grateful and I really appreciate the work that you do and the commitment you have to your work and your community and yourself because it, these experiences truly only happen in grow when the people running them really care and it's, it's so clear that this is so important to you and that you care and I can lead to come and do it myself.
Speaker 5:Well you, the door is open every, you know, all the time and, and again, you know, if you need, obviously if you need more stuff and whatever I can do to support you in this incredible journey that you've taken on, it's like, it's just
Speaker 1:brilliant,
Speaker 2:lovely blowing. Like you said you wanted to like, like glow through the whole[inaudible]
Speaker 1:Oh, that's so funny. Oh my gosh. Sharon, thank you so much for your time, for sharing about your experience for letting me come into your home. So it was literally the coziest thing. We were in her home. There was this gorgeous altar set up. The fire was going, we had tea and like gorgeous China T little T mugs and I hope that that came through when you were listening because we were just gazing into each other's eyeballs and saying lovely things to each other and like I feel like at points where maybe on a different planet, but that's what this is about. If you are interested in at all in our whole Tropic breath work yourself, you can go to holotropic, dr, calm and there's all sorts of things on that website there with more information as well as bigger events that are happening all over the world. I am really curious to know how you feel about this. Is holotropic breathwork something that you're curious about exploring? Is it something you've done before? So please feel free to as the light into my DMS on embodied alchemy dot pod on Instagram. If you loved this episode, please feel free to give it five stars to leave all your comments down there. I can't wait today to hear what you think. I hope you have a fabulous rest of your day. I love you. Bye.
Speaker 3:[inaudible].