075 The more we can connect with and support our audience and clients, the easier our jobs as solopreneurs and business owners become. We can be more clear, more focused, and more effective. We can increase our impact with less work.
In this episode you will learn:
Sarah Panus has nearly 20 years’ experience helping billion-dollar brands drive leading ROI through brand storytelling. Sarah is a Minnesota mama, content strategist, podcast host of Marketing With Empathy, and owner of Kindred Speak LLC. She’s on a mission to humanize brands; help content marketers reduce overwhelm/confusion; and raise money to fund child trafficking rescue missions.
More info <<HERE>>
Connect with Sarah
Website <<HERE>>
Instagram and Marketing With Empathy Podcast
075 The more we can connect with and support our audience and clients, the easier our jobs as solopreneurs and business owners become. We can be more clear, more focused, and more effective. We can increase our impact with less work.
In this episode you will learn:
Sarah Panus has nearly 20 years’ experience helping billion-dollar brands drive leading ROI through brand storytelling. Sarah is a Minnesota mama, content strategist, podcast host of Marketing With Empathy, and owner of Kindred Speak LLC. She’s on a mission to humanize brands; help content marketers reduce overwhelm/confusion; and raise money to fund child trafficking rescue missions.
More info <<HERE>>
Connect with Sarah
Website <<HERE>>
Instagram and Marketing With Empathy Podcast
Hello and welcome to the healthy, happy and mostly sane entrepreneur podcast. I'm your host national board certified health and wellness coach and Ayurvedic practitioner, and mostly sane entrepreneur Ellen Leonard. Each week, I share my obsession with helping you build a healthy life that works for you, your family, and your business. Because I don't think you have to sacrifice your own health and well being to be successful. So please stay tuned. For today's episode full of ideas to make staying healthy just a little bit easier. Don't forget to hit subscribe, so you don't miss out on future episodes. As a business owner as a solopreneur, I'm always looking for ways to help me gain clarity and become much more effective. So that I can stay focused on what's important to me, which is helping people manage their stress and be less distracted by the logistics of business. And the more we can connect with and support our audience and clients the easier jobs as solopreneurs and business owners become right, because we're more clear, we're more focused, we're more effective. And so we can increase our impact with less work. And today's guest, Sarah Panus spent the majority of her career leading content strategy on the corporate side, managing up to $10 million budgets. So she's got some serious game when it comes to understanding the importance of brand storytelling, in creating content in a brand that truly connects with your audience so that you can cut through a lot of that stress and overwhelmed and really get clear on your focus for your audience and how best to serve them. Sarah is big on helping people create a human connection. And I think that that so often gets overlooked in a lot of the courses that we take and, and things that we do for our business. Because you know, we're following a formula to create the perfect Instagram caption or to create the perfect sales page. And so often, we can overlook this most basic thing of connecting right with our audience, that human to human connection. And in today's episode, you're going to learn a couple things. Number one, the power of something called the third choice, and I promise, you're gonna want to listen to that, because that blew my mind. But number two, you're also going to learn what brand storytelling is, and why you care about it, why it's important to you, and how you can start using it today. Number three, how to use something called an empathy filter as your new secret weapon for creating content and connecting to your audience. And as always, the show notes page will have all sorts of details. So if you are out for a walk or in the car, just know that I've got you covered that Steven. Sarah, thank you so much for being here today. I am so excited to finally have you on the podcast.
Unknown:I am too. I'm so excited to be here.
Ellen Leonard:Well, you know, I love to find out about how other entrepreneurial other entrepreneurs got started. So what's your entrepreneurial origin story? Like? How did you start doing what you're doing? Yeah,
Sarah Panus:so I'm actually a newer entrepreneur. So I've been the owner of my own business, my own consulting business for not quite a year. So just about a year now. And my origin is that over the last 20 years, I've been working in some form of marketing and digital communication roles. And really was working with a lot of very large, you know, billion dollar brands, driving brand storytelling strategy and social and various aspects for those brands. And, you know, I am a Minnesota Mama, I am a content strategist. I'm the podcast host of my podcast, which is called marketing with empathy, which is a brand storytelling, podcast. And now the owner of Kindred speak, which is my consulting business. And as I was over the last 20 years, you know, working with these different brands at varying levels, I just really wanted to make sure that I'm always using my creativity and my passion is really helping humanize brands, I love working with brands to help create a human connection between them and their audience. Because I feel like you're just putting more good out into the world, just more beneficial for everyone involved. Um, you know, really what happened that hat was the jump from me to from corporate side to now being my own boss and running my own company was there was really just a shift that kept happening for me, Alan, like through throughout that time, which was, and it's very common for women and hen moms and other moms I talked to is there's this, you know, shift kind of this identity crisis, if you will, that continues to happen. Then, as you evolve, and so for me, what was happening was when I was managing the social team was leading a team of, you know, seven, running a $10 million budget for this billion dollar retailer. And it was really, I'd gotten to a point hit, and I had my son at that point, and he was young, and he was just going to be getting going to kindergarten. And I remember for me, I was just getting burnt out after leading that for nine years. And social is always on. And I had, you know, gotten to the point in my career, I was really excited. And I wanted to be at this leadership level, but it was coming in expense of missing out on really being present with my family, with my son and with my husband. And I mean, gosh, there was it was always on the phone. And people were always messaging me things. And it was like, every single time I was in the car, and my husband was driving, he would always look over and like go on your phone again. You know, it was kind of one of those things. And it just got to a point where Mike No, this isn't working for me anymore. And my son was going into kindergarten at that time. And I wanted to be home, when he got home after school, I was like, that was just important to me. So I was like this isn't working. And so did a shift. And, and was able to move into a new role where I was able to work remotely, and lead content marketing strategy. And I would love to talk about I know later, we'll get into some questions about the kind of the things that went into those decisions. But my big thing is this, my big thing is that I really learned through my career that you, there are certain things you can do to give yourself a lot more sanity, there are things you can believe in yourself more, that will empower you a lot more. And that'll just make your work life and your personal life that much stronger, and that much better. And so, now that I'm in my own, I know this is a really long answer. So I'll get to the point here, which is now that I'm in my own role, who was interesting as I had started my Kindle speak business as a side hustle. So when I was working on the corporate side, had created the end of 2019, I had started my consulting business and with the intention of just you know, doing a few clients on the side just to keep creative outlets open. And when COVID hits, it actually presented the most amazing blessing for me. Because I ended up being furloughed from my role at the corporate side, along with 40% 40%.
Unknown:Higher organization, this
Sarah Panus:is a huge brand, lots of people were furloughed, and we were furloughed for 90 days. And what was really, at first, it was a shock, because like it is a shock to COVID was a shock to everybody, right? It's just a lot. But it ended up being such a blessing. Because during that time off, I was able to be way more present. I have two kids. Now I have a son and a daughter. They're both in elementary school school, they're in school out of school base, and then all sudden, they were all home like it was just back and forth. Right? So I was able to just not help navigate that. But for me, I made a decision. I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna double down on this on like a side hustle. And really lean in on my business and see, you know what else I want to make of this. And what I learned during those three months was, gosh, I took like online courses and groups. And that's how you and I met was during that timeframe, we were both in a similar in the same group together. And it was amazing. And I loved it. And I was just getting so energized from it. So when the opportunity came, you know, the decision was to go back or not, it wasn't a good fit for me. And so I was
Unknown:I joke with
Sarah Panus:people because I say, you know, I lost my job, but I gained a client. So what actually came up out of it was the company I used to work for, ended up hiring me on as a consultant. So I still work with them. And so it was just the best of both worlds. But now we have more flexibility. I can work with other brands, I can set my own hours, I have a ton more flexibility for my kids. And that is really a huge factor of my Why is really to continue to be creative, to help other communicators feel empowered, and district reduce that overwhelm and in terms of brand storytelling strategy, and family families first for me. And so that's been that's a big part of my journey.
Ellen Leonard:Yeah, and it sounds like you got to this space by really listening to yourself. And thinking about what you really needed. I know that's actually something that you're super passionate about, which is like how speaking up for yourself about what you need can be really life changing. So tell us more about that. Like why is that so important to you? Okay, so
Sarah Panus:I'll tell you it's so important. That's how your few stories I think to help illustrate it is that I think with all of us, I know with me anyway, as I was in my career was super driven. I'm an enneagram three and one so I'm very like detailed in my Clifton strengths finders all about like achiever. And responsibility and positivity and things like that. So I'm like, go, go, go, that's just my personality. And what sometimes you do in that when you're go, go go, you're always just going for the results that you know, other people are expecting. But if you're not stopping and pausing, like I was always just stopping and pausing and listening to myself, I'm like, Well, what is really the best for me. And what I realized was, no one else is a mind reader, no one can read your mind, if you don't bring it up, they're not gonna know it's bothering you, they're not gonna know it's a goal of yours, or a wish or an aspiration. And, and what happens is, the minute you can start talking about it, and having been a little vulnerable, is when these doors can open. So I actually have like a couple of really great examples, Alan, and I frame it into what I call the power of the third choice. Can I go into that right now to give us some examples, okay. So I call this like the power of the third choice. And I want to bring this up, because there's a few examples I can share with, with all of you listening, that really illustrate this. And this has really helped me with my decision making along the way. It's that courage and believing in yourself aspect and nixing those limiting beliefs that get in our heads because they get in everybody's heads. So, you know, I mentioned already, you know, when I was working on the corporate side, and I was running that social team, and had accomplished all those things, but it just, I hadn't, it wasn't giving me what I needed yet. You know, I wasn't as present for my family, like I was saying. And so my dream had changed, right? So at that point, I had this decision in my mind, and I was like, well, should I stay? Or should I go, like a or b, kind of a thing, right? And really thought through that whole process. And I was like, well, should I find a new job or stay and see if I can change the role. And so I decided to have this really vulnerable discussion with my boss. And, you know, long story short, I was able to step into the brand, a brand new role for the company, which was leading a new function of content marketing strategy, that would allow me instead of being in the office every single day, like I used to be, and on, you know, my phone at all times. Instead, I pitched it as you know, we were able to do this new role. And I had said, My wish was, you know, hey, my son is starting kindergarten, I really want to be home, I can't, I just don't want to be in the office all the time. And this was at a time pre COVID, where nobody worked remote in our company, Nobody. Nobody in our marketing department anyway. And so I pitched it as an I also want to test out this remote thing. And in my head leading up to that I was terrified to and and now looking back, I just think it's so silly that I was so scared to even ask for what I wanted. But I was nervous. Like, I was so nervous when I get nervous, like, my teeth hurt. Like, it's like, I remember my teeth learning. I was like, Oh, no, um, but had that conversation and what we were able to do, just because I had the courage to put it out there. And what got me that courage was, I was like, the worst they're gonna say is no. And if they say no, and I felt really cool, I was like, then that's great, that helps you make my decision that this role is just isn't gonna work for me anymore. And that's okay, because we move around to different jobs. And that is life, that's totally fine. But I was able to test out when we said, okay, one day a week remote, and then we went to two days a week, and then three days, and then four days. And so then it ended up being four days work remotely. And then one day a week I was in the office, and I'm telling you that was really was life changing, because the commute was a longer commute, I didn't have it anymore, I was able to be more present with my son. And then at the same time, I was able to prove, yes, people can work remotely. And this, this works really well for the company, which I was proud of, because it set the stage for other people to start working remotely as well at that time. So that was amazing. But again, it was like I was thinking of like, you know, a or b stay or go. A second story example, then was, you know, a few years later, I'm rocking the remote content strategy role, and improving remote work as possible for others. But, you know, I'd been with the same employer for more than a decade, and like, the creative inside of me was really screaming at me to like, you know, help other brands and collaborate with other people. And don't pigeonhole yourself. So, I really like my job though, right? So I was like, What do I do what I want to diversify a bit, but, you know, should I quit? Or should I start my own consulting business? Since I like what I do. And a friend of mine, I was talking with her, and I was doing this whole thing, I should start my own business, or should I say, and she just planed a super calm, looked at me. And she said, Well, why couldn't you do both? And I was like, my initial reaction was like, Oh, they would might play it would never be okay with that. And she said, Well, have you asked,
Unknown:and I remember pausing and just looking at her and I'm like, No, I haven't. I haven't. Right. And
Sarah Panus:so long story short, if I'm about it more, and I'm like, she's absolutely right. I have created these like two choices for myself. start my own business or Stay, and hadn't even considered a third choice, which was, well, maybe there's a way I could do both. And so it ended up, I had this great conversation with my employer with HR, we all talked about it. And they were and guess what, they were fine with me having a side hustle. As long as you know, it didn't interfere with my daily work and wasn't competitive clients and that kind of thing. And so that's where at the end of 2018, I had just started my kindred spirit consulting business on the side. And what these, you know, those two stories have in common is this third choice, like the power of don't narrow down your choices to just the two options that you see what I've, what I say, for everyone listening is, you know, when you think you have your options, like laid out, look at them and ask yourself, like, what's the third choice I'm not thinking of, or that's holding, or that it's holding me back because of a limiting belief I'm having on myself, because when I looked at those doubt, was the limiting belief for me that hadn't made them seem possible, like you may think, Oh, that's too good to be true. Or they'll never be okay with that, why didn't frickin know I didn't ask them. So that was so empowering for me, like throughout my career, as I've learned to speak up and have courage for either big choices like that of like, you know, roles and where I work and all that. But even just in meetings and discussions of sharing my creative ideas, you have to get your ideas out there. Because again, no one's a mind reader. And the more you do it, and you get feedback on it more, it just makes you so much more empowered Ellen and being able to listen to your voice.
Ellen Leonard:Yeah, and I love how so much of what you discovered started with that listening to your own voice, like really hearing what you wanted and needed. And letting that be the driving force to the choices instead of just being like, well, this is what's in front of me. So these are my only choices inside, you're like, Oh, well, this is what would be best for me. This is, this would be great if it worked out in this way for me. Yeah. Let's see if that's available.
Sarah Panus:Yeah. And here's the here's the thing is like, it's not always going to work out like you're never you're not always going to get the Yes. But you definitely don't get a yes. If you don't ask. And if you don't put it out there. And if you're not thoughtful in how it could come together, right. It's not about being like demanding and needy. It's about just knowing what you as a person need. And you know, laying that out with solutions and ideas and alternatives so that it makes the outcome more possible.
Ellen Leonard:Yeah, totally. And it's like if you dream about winning the lottery, but never buy a ticket. Yes. As a joke in making our house because we always say what if we win the lottery, but we never buy a ticket? I always say I'm like, well, we're not winning, guys, we have to buy a ticket. Yeah, we do the same thing. Fantasy to have. So you spoke earlier about brand storytelling and empathy. Tell us more why that's so important to the success of our businesses, because I know it is but I want to hear why why it is.
Sarah Panus:Definitely. So what I do in my business now as a consultant is I do brand storytelling strategy. And so there's a couple different ways that I do that with folks. The the the larger way, is a sort of a done for you model where brands and I particularly work in the b2c and b2b or nonprofit space with clients who will hire me to help them you know, build winning brands, retain strategies, manage third party content partnerships, lots of be the editor of their blog, lots of things like that. And the other way is then through is a noose new space. For me. Like I said, I'm new entrepreneurs, I'm figuring out my whole model, but is creating online courses that then I can offer to other communicators so that they can learn to DIY at themselves. So that's my two paths and and they're both brand storytelling specific, because why that is so important is you know, brand storytelling itself is really when you use a narrative to connect your brand to your customers. And it can happen across any medium, you know, any channel and with brand storytelling. It is not the like low funnel promo, heavy, you know, buy this now messaging, it's more of that upper and mid funnel type storytelling that really helps attract new leads into your business and it helps humanize your brand. It helps build trust and advocacy that helps increase you know, customers wanting to keep coming back to you and folks wanting to recommend you and you and do whatever actions that you're hoping to achieve with them. Right. And so with brand storytelling that is so critically important and what I've seen with my friends clients, and when I worked last 20 years on various forms of communications, is when you can tie empathy into your brand storytelling, I see it drive at least seven times better results voice and the
Ellen Leonard:empathy. There's the math. Good job. Thank you.
Unknown:You're so funny.
Sarah Panus:So yes, at least seven x better results for hands down. And empathy is such a key piece of this. And I like to kind of think about like a trio of empathy, data and focus, and what empathy is all about. Empathy is all about connecting heart to heart and mind to mind. And at its core, empathy is really about truly understanding your target audience and speaking to them in a way that makes them feel heard. Right, it gets them to stop and pay attention to your brand, it drives them to action, which is what we all want, as solopreneurs as entrepreneurs, you know, in our business, right? And empathy is, is it's that ability to understand and share the feelings of another. And as brands, we it's so important. And I work with a lot of big brands. And so sometimes it the bigger you get you forget that human factor. And so it's so important, because that's what's going to make it resonate. And so I made up a phrase that I call an empathy filter. And all Yes, so what's your empathy filter is what I would ask. And so all brand storytelling, whenever you're thinking of any content creation for your brand, be thinking and ask yourself, what's the empathy filter? What is the reason that my audience is actually going to care about this piece of content? Is it you know, a question that answers you know, as an answer to a question that you know, that people you've, you've seen through, like SEO data that, you know, people are searching for on Google. And so you have a point of view? And you can answer it, is it like, you know, in relation to some kind of like life phase that they're going through, or maybe tied to their goals or desires or interests?
Unknown:or stress that
Sarah Panus:they're feeling as like a parent or anxiety maybe right now that they're feeling during everything that's changing in the
Ellen Leonard:in life right
Sarah Panus:now? Or can this even be as simple as connecting on a shared experience, you know, that they've had, like everyone being in virtual meetings right now. I saw a great ad, it was a print ad, actually, that KitKat has just done, and it was showing a calendar, like a close up view of someone's calendar, and each time, so like, 9am 10am 11, you know, each slot had like, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, like for zoom meetings, but then they had the two Kit Kat bars because they're like, you know, horizontally, like into the time slot. So it was just really clever, because it was just like relating to the fact that Yep, everyone's doing zoom calls and is online and virtual right now, but it was like making a break for you in your day for KitKat bar. So that was just that was just a clever, very visual example of Yeah, okay, that relates to what people are going through right now with with more online virtual virtual calls. So yeah, empathy is my jam. Like, that's what I and that's why my podcast is called marketing with empathy, because and I talk with amazing leaders at brands, you know, creatives themselves, and then I share insights I've had over my career, just on how you can humanize more and the power and the benefit, and ultimately, the increased ROI that you're gonna drive as a result of doing it. It's not just fluff, it drives stronger results, hands down.
Ellen Leonard:Yeah. And I'd love that you bring up that it's not just fluff because it can be so easy to get lost in the logistics and the marketing part and and forget that the whole point of everything that we're doing is trying to connect and help other humans.
Sarah Panus:Yes, yes. Yes. And, you know, that's what we ultimately you want your audience to do something. And you and you know, Simon Sinek, start with why. And, you know, a lot of people know about that book. And you start with why ask it. And so like, for me, I was, I was thinking, what can I, if I was starting a book, I would say we'll start with empathy filter. And that really is tying into a why as well. Because there just has to be a reason for it. And if you feel like it's just computer like, I really have no idea why my audience is gonna care about this at all. Do not make it,
Unknown:revise it until it works.
Sarah Panus:To answer something that your audience cares about others, you're adding Zilch value to them.
Ellen Leonard:Yeah, and I love that that's such a simple filter too. And people are stressing so much about content and want to offer out and how to serve and how to connect. That's one of the most simple things we can do is just apply this empathy filter. Yes. And
Sarah Panus:so one of my tips is, you know, a very tactical way you can do that is if you have a content calendar, add a column that's called empathy filter next, each one of your pieces of content so that you're forcing yourself to ask that question or if you're doing it Some type of creative brief outline on something, make sure empathy filter is a section. So however you plan your creative content, add empathy filter as a section, so it forces you or your team to be able to, you know, think about that.
Ellen Leonard:Yeah, and thank you for that clear step that we can all everybody listening is probably like, Oh, that's such a good point.
Sarah Panus:I know. But in it right, it just helps just makes you pause, because I think it's really easy. And I'm seeing this, especially now, as an entrepreneur, there's so many things we can do. And especially I'm a solopreneur. So I don't have a team, right? So you have to prioritize what is going to matter the most for your business and what's right for one another business isn't necessarily always right for yours. And so I've had that feeling even like, Oh, crap, like, it's a lot to do as a solopreneur. thinking through all of it, but if you really boil down and assess like, who you're speaking to, what you want to achieve, and you know, that empathy filter of what the audience cares about that will help you really hone in on what matters which channels matter the most, you know, what type of content matters the most versus, you know, copying everything that everyone else is doing online? If you don't feel like it resonates with you?
Ellen Leonard:Well, that's amazing. And so how can people get in touch with you if they want to, like listen to your podcast or learn more about how they can include brand storytelling and empathy in their own business? Absolutely. So
Sarah Panus:I would say the the best way is to sign up for my weekly newsletter, I have a free weekly brand storytelling newsletter. My little link to sign up for that is on my homepage. At Kindred speak comm there's a format tab where you can sign up for that. And you'll get a free outline of brand storytelling framework, five essentials list that you can look in reference for your own plans. And then I'm also on LinkedIn and Instagram on LinkedIn at Sarah noose. And on Instagram I, my handle is I am Sarah penis.
Ellen Leonard:Excellent. Well, I will be sure to drop all of that into the shownotes for everybody. And so thank you so much for being with us today. I learned so much and I'm going to be thinking about empathy like all the time.
Unknown:Thank you, sir. Thanks so much, Ellen.
Ellen Leonard:Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. As always, I hope you found it useful and helpful to help you stay healthy, happy and sane. While running your business. Be sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss out on next week's episode. And be sure to leave a review if you can, there's a link in the show notes for leaving some podcast love. If you found this useful. It helps other people to find this podcast so it can be useful for them as well. As always, I wish you a healthy, happy and mostly sane week. I'll see you next time.