069 Entrepreneurs can sometimes be not so great at asking for help. If we can do it, we think we should. For instance, I do my own website and social media even though I probably shouldn’t be doing either! Ha! Today’s guest Emily Perron, helps businesses do just that - outsource the work that will help them thrive!
In today’s episode you will learn:
More info <<HERE>>
069 Entrepreneurs can sometimes be not so great at asking for help. If we can do it, we think we should. For instance, I do my own website and social media even though I probably shouldn’t be doing either! Ha! Today’s guest Emily Perron, helps businesses do just that - outsource the work that will help them thrive!
In today’s episode you will learn:
More info <<HERE>>
What if I told you that it didn't have to be so hard that you didn't have to do everything on your own. So often as business owners, we feel as though just because we can do it means that we should or we have to. And that can be so depleting over time. If you're doing things that don't let you up and distract you from your real purpose. The reason why you started your business in the first place, your zone of genius. So in today's episode, we're gonna dive into how you can start hiring and help and how to think about that, how to reframe your mindset about that so you can get the right help for your business, to help you thrive and to help you as a business owner, get back to what you will love. Hello, and welcome to the healthy, happy and mostly sane entrepreneur podcast. I'm your host national board certified health and wellness coach and Ayurvedic practitioner, and mostly sane entrepreneur, Ellen Leonard. Each week, I share my obsession with helping you build a healthy life that works for you, your family, and your business. Because I don't think you have to sacrifice your own health and well being to be successful. So please stay tuned. For today's episode full of ideas to make staying healthy just a little bit easier. Don't forget to hit subscribe, so you don't miss out on future episodes. Small business owners entrepreneurs are so passionate about doing it all on their own, that we even invented a word for it. The solopreneur ur, the person who is doing it all. And this is a double edged sword, right? Like we take on so much. Because we can do it. For instance, I do my own website, I do my own social media. These are both things that I am not particularly skilled. I'm not an expert, I have learned enough to get by. But is that enough? And can my business really thrive when I'm doing so many of these other tasks that I'm not an expert in, and that take time and energy away from the thing that I started my business for in the first place, which is to help my cleaning clients manage stress. So today's guest, Emily parent, helps businesses do just that. outsource the work the parts of their business that will help them thrive. By giving away those tasks by hiring somebody else to do them. It can be incredibly empowering not only for your business to be successful, but for you to stay healthy, happy and sane, which is of course the goal of this podcast. So in today's episode, you will learn what stops business owners from hiring freelancers, or outsourcing that work in the first place. Number two, how to think outside the box with hiring because it turns out, there are more than just VA is out there. So so often we hear in podcasts and courses that we take that VA is are the answer and they might be but they're not the only possibility. And Emily dives into that. She just talks about what one thing she wishes solopreneurs knew about outsourcing. And number four, what steps you can take today to start working on expanding your team right now. And a little about Emily, she helps bloggers and creative entrepreneurs expand and improve their teams with talented freelancers. Her number one goal is to align the right person with the right role. And you'll hear how passionate she is about that and today's episode. And it will really help to shift your mindset around what you might be open to hiring out and maybe a way you haven't thought about it before. She teaches her strategic hiring process inside her signature course the hiring fix, which of course I'm linking to. And also works with one on one clients looking to bring on high quality support. And as always, I will include everything we talked about and details in the show notes. So if you are on a walk or in your car, I've got you covered. Let's get started. So Emily, thank you so much for being here today. I'm so excited to finally have you on. Yeah,
Emily Perron:I am so excited. It's been so fun just even chatting as we've been getting going. It's always great to use my podcast to make new friends.
Ellen Leonard:And, you know, we don't know each other very well. So I actually don't know the answer to this question. But how did you get started with what you're doing now? What's your your origin story with becoming an entrepreneur? Yeah, so
Emily Perron:my background Is that I spent about 10 years in the corporate world, I worked first in event planning, and then in marketing. And when I was in those roles, I won, I was a hiring manager. So I did have to hire a couple times in the, in the corporation.
Unknown:And then also I was just like
Emily Perron:the person people went to for help with when they hired. And so I sat in, like, I was always like, reviewing resumes and like giving input, like, Who should we interview, Who should we hire, I sat in on a lot of interviews, too. And so that was part of it. And then, and during the same time, I also earned a master's degree in Industrial and organizational psychology, because I was just really interested in people and leadership and career development and all of that. So I left the corporate world in 2015, and established a career coaching business. And I hired pretty early earlier than most entrepreneurs or solopreneurs. Because Because I have this background, right, I had education, and I had experience, I'm like, I've got this, I can get a freelancer to help me, I'm gonna get a VA, a virtual assistant. And it was really hard. I made a lot of mistakes in like my first year or two of hiring freelancers, because it's just a different space. They're looking for different things. And employees also, it's, it's so much harder as a solopreneur. Because it's way more personal.
Unknown:So it's just
Emily Perron:yeah, it's just like, it's your dollars on the line, like when you're at a big company, and there's a billion dollar budget.
Ellen Leonard:Yeah, I'm guessing a lot of people listening don't actually have a billion dollar budget for their business. So that's
Unknown:right.
Emily Perron:So it was through that, that I was like, I am figuring this out. And it was really just about myself, like, I just wanted to get better in my business, so I could grow it and, and really be happier working, and have like, you know, all of that, like be healthy, happy and sane, like you say, and yeah, so then that just led to my business friends, they started to reach out for support and ask for help. And yeah, then I just started recruiting for people because they wanted, they wanted to pay me to find their freelancers for them, because my process was working so well. And it's so consistent that it pulls in like really high performing freelancers.
Unknown:And I love that you're
Ellen Leonard:actually getting to help people doing something that only you're clearly passionate about, but that you're also really good at.
Emily Perron:Yeah, exactly. I mean, it really is my zone of genius to do this work. Yeah, I was just gonna say that sort of genius. Great minds, great minds, right?
Ellen Leonard:Um, you know, and I'm guessing it's resonating with so many people listening that entrepreneurs are so into doing things by themselves were so into it, that we came up with a name for it. solopreneur, right. Like, we're, we're like gonna DIY the crap out of everything. We feel like, we can do everything. So we should write. And it can get so overwhelming so quickly. And all it does is take us away from that time and energy away from doing a lot of the things that we love. So what do you think stops business owners from outsourcing for making those first hires from from really starting to build a team?
Emily Perron:I think part of it is what we were just talking about the personal piece that it's so personal, it's hard. It's just hard to get going. I think another piece that I've seen is that it's it's also hard to let go of control. Because
Ellen Leonard:I'm laughing because it Emily, are you in my head? Because that's 100% My reason. But continue.
Unknown:Yeah, yeah. So
Emily Perron:the letting go of control is big, because you, you won't be doing it. And you have to shift into more of a manager role at most tasks. And you have to build in more time. So you just need more lead times. So you can give feedback, and allow that person to then implement what you want. Yeah.
Ellen Leonard:And sometimes it's almost easier to think, Oh, it's just, it's just easier to do it. on my own. If I just do it myself. It's faster. Yeah, I
Emily Perron:often talk about the zone of competence traps, like we talked about. But like the trap is competence, because it's easy to outsource your stuff. You're not good at right in competence, the lowest level, like, that's easy to get help on. But competence. It's like, anytime I hear myself, even me, like even now like with a small team and all of that. And all the growth I've done, I still there's things I can do. And I'm always like, wait, that's the warning sign. I can do it. But someone else said, You know, I just keep a list.
Ellen Leonard:And I'm so glad you called it a trap. I feel like I'm going to be making a list of things that are that are currently trapping me in that way. That's just such a great way to frame it. So thank you for that.
Unknown:Yeah, you're welcome. Yeah, I
Emily Perron:think the other one too is just not knowing what like what you need and In terms of like, the roles, I think there's just like everyone sees everyone online hiring virtual assistants, and so they think they need a virtual assistant, but they might not actually need a virtual assistant, they might need a project manager, or a social media specialist, or a writer and editor. Um, so we're just kind of trained in this solopreneur space, like, you have to have a VA, like, that's the first role you have to get. And it's like, I'm here to say, like you don't like, that might not be the right role. It's all I'm saying. Yeah,
Ellen Leonard:that's so interesting to think about, because I agree with that a lot of the things that I hear as well, in all these trainings, I go to courses I take and podcasts I listen to, is always va va, VA, and I forget that there are other kinds of people out there that I can hire to help me in my business.
Emily Perron:Yes, exactly. So I think those are like the big, like, the big three things that hold people back. And notice like, none of them are financial, like, yes, that's a piece of it. But but like only I think, like that's so individual, like when you're feeling ready to invest those resources. But
Ellen Leonard:also, I think it's easy, because it is so personal to own and run your own business, that it might almost feel you feel guilty for hiring somebody to do something that you know, you can do.
Emily Perron:Yeah, right. Right. But that is like, that's our conditioning. Right? I, I kind of think of this too, with like, I've noticed it with men and women. I've noticed, like men in general, have an easier time. Like, they don't think twice about getting help with like, you know, lower level tasks or administrative tasks. Like they outsource much more easily than women do. On a whole like, yeah, that's really interesting. Yeah, I mean, I need to.
Ellen Leonard:Yeah. And so tell us some before and after stories, where somebody was doing it all themselves, hired someone. And then everything magically changed, because because that's how I think it happens.
Emily Perron:Yeah, great. I wish I had like those stories right. Earlier, like, Yeah, I just wish it was like, it was that easy. But it's, it's just such a process, like, it's a growth process. And so I do think of one client, so my client, my private clients tend to, they tend to have already hired and it hasn't gone well. And so they're bringing me in because they're struggling. And so typically, they have a couple freelancers, helping them. But even with that level, like they've got a little bit of support in place, they're still like, they're just becoming happier as well, like, in terms of just like feeling better. So I think a Melissa Melissa is a good example from last summer, I hired actually a VA for her, but she was a VA that was very focused on Pinterest. And the transformation that I've been watching with her has been really fun to see how much happier She is like the relief she's getting. And like the lower stress levels, I think of like, her health improving, because she doesn't have her backlog of projects. So she was a food blogger. And so she doesn't have, like, she just had this huge backlog of projects, and it was weighing on her and she was never getting to it. It was affecting her business numbers too, because she wasn't, you know, doing the things she was supposed to be doing on, you know, in terms of SEO and, and Pinterest strategy. She just wasn't getting to it. And so she just had this attitude of like, Okay, done is better than perfect, I just need to do these things. And so that's like, was kind of her tipping point, like we were talking about, like, she just got to this point where she realized she had to let go of control or her business was going to stagnate, you know, or continue to not grow. And like her house was going to continue to decline as well. So I think it's
Ellen Leonard:a little bit of incremental ism, right? Like, just bit by bit, you don't realize how much of all the stuff that you wanted, when you started your business, like you were like, Oh my gosh, I'm gonna have time with my family. And I'm gonna get to do yoga all the time. And, you know, like you imagined all these things. And then, because you take on so much on your own, you start to lose the those things you start those things started to be sacrificed for one more meaning or getting one more project on. When the reality is, is I think that's the tipping point that you were talking about is like when you start to do those things, or when you start to even think about doing those things. That might be the time to actually be like, Oh, I think I might need to hire someone.
Unknown:Yeah, exactly.
Ellen Leonard:Yeah. So what's one thing that you wish business owners knew about? hiring somebody or outsourcing
Unknown:Oh, this this is a good one.
Emily Perron:I think one of the things I wish more people knew is they don't have to hire a full time employee.
Unknown:Okay,
Emily Perron:yeah, so the freelancing space is so much more flexible, you can have a specialist, you know, someone who specialized in social media or writing or project management, you can have them for two or three hours a week, and not 40. So it becomes so much more affordable, even though they're a contractor, and you're paying them maybe hourly, so maybe you, you pay them more than you would an employee a little bit. But at $30, even if let's say that's $30 an hour for the role, you're paying $90 a week, to free up like your time and your energy and your mind on these tasks. It's it gets pretty powerful pretty quickly. And it's a great way to tap into that.
Ellen Leonard:And you're you're paying for somebody, like I feel like, yeah, I can do Pinterest, right? Like, but my understanding of it is very low level. And so when I'm hiring an expert, I'm definitely getting like, I don't think they're going to do it faster than I could, right. But they're probably gonna, if they're specialists in that field in that specific platform, or any of the things that you need in your business, if they're an expert in that, then they're probably going to do a much better job than he would do anyway.
Unknown:Yes, yes,
Emily Perron:exactly. You're getting Yeah, you're just the benefits, right? You said, That's exactly it. Like they're way more efficient, they're going to do things faster. And like you said, they're just gonna know what needs to be done. They're gonna know things that need to be done that you don't even know or think to do.
Ellen Leonard:Yeah. And so now now, is anybody else's wheels spinning? As you're listening? You're like, Oh, yeah, I should have hired somebody like a year ago. Like I've been I, you know, it's interesting, because a lot of the logistical stuff in my business as it comes up, I don't immediately think I should hire somebody for that, I immediately think, Oh, I need to learn how to do that. And then I learned how to do it. I really need to stop doing that.
Emily Perron:That's so interesting. That is not my approach. But like, now I'm a recruiter. So I my problem is the opposite. I have so many lists of everything. I want to outsource, like, I have a team of like 40 people. Oh, I don't have it's just like I keep thinking of roles I could, like things I could get help with.
Ellen Leonard:So we're opposite ends of the spectrum. I'm still like trying to figure out how to, to let go a little bit. And you're like, No, no, take it all.
Emily Perron:Yeah, and I think part of it's just natural for me, too. I think it's in my strengths and in my personality, some as well to to be that way. So it's just gotten, it's just become amplified the last five years or so, five, six years in business.
Ellen Leonard:So if I were interested in starting to even think about hiring somebody to help me with whatever it is I need in my business, what are some of the first steps that I might do to take action today?
Emily Perron:Yeah, a couple activities I recommend, and this is stuff I did years ago. I mean, before I had my core team of three, I have three freelancers that helped me right now. Before I had them, I made like a dream team list. So I kind of like drew out all the roles I wanted. And I thought about like what they would do. And I was like, Okay, these are the roles I want to hire over the next three years. And now I have I have that team. And I think I drew that out in 2017. So and it's 2021. Now. So I think that's one thing to do is just just start thinking about the roles and in order to like figure out those roles. The step before that is just to start noticing what needs to be done. And I like to then categorize it into those zones of work. So gay Hendricks he has those four zones. So it's in competence, competence, excellence, and genius. And so I just start noticing. So tracking your time for a week or two is a really good way to do this. Because you can start noticing you start noticing what you're not getting to. You can also start noticing like how much of your time are you spending in competence or competence? Because those are really the two target areas. You're going to get your most bang for your buck outsourcing those from those two spaces.
Ellen Leonard:Yeah, and that makes total sense. Like I'm going to get the most bang for my buck outsourcing the things that that I just am not great at and I have no interest in doing.
Emily Perron:I mean do you ever do the thing where you like just don't do something because you don't like to like I was just sort of my social media Schedule A I'm not hired my VA now does my social media scheduling for me, because I would never get done. I would have social media posts done, but I just like put them out there.
Ellen Leonard:See, for me, it's the actual creating of the social media posts. I get scheduled them that doesn't bother me but the creation of I find to be I think draining is the word I might use.
Emily Perron:Yeah, we have it isn't that interesting, too, I think that's another thing like we're getting at here is that like different people complement each other better. So like, if you and I run a team, like I would be running and content creation, and you would be executing on it, you know what I mean. And so then we would be balancing each other out. And I think that's one of the great things too about freelancers is you can start to fill in some of your weaknesses with people that have strengths where you're weak, and then it's just like the whole business becomes more stable.
Ellen Leonard:I love that. And I think one of the the elements that is missing from so many business, small business owners life is the semblance of a team, like, we miss talking to other humans about our business. So often, you can just get isolated in the minutiae of your business. I mean, who in my household Am I going to talk to about updating my kajabi? website? Nobody, nobody was talking about that. They don't want to talk about my SEO. But while they're talking, I'm possibly thinking about my SEO. And so maybe we shouldn't tell the door, they're listening to this. My family will not know that I'm thinking about SEO while they're talking to me. But that's totally what's happening. But it's just so interesting to think about the things that that solopreneurs and entrepreneurs just take on so easily. It's just so eye opening, I think.
Emily Perron:Yeah, and it is really nice to to have a perspective from people that work in other businesses, not necessarily similar to yours, but just even in, I think of like most solopreneurs, being kind of more in the online business space. And so it's nice to have freelancers that work in other businesses like that, because then they're just bringing in more knowledge to to you, and they can share feedback and offer suggestions.
Ellen Leonard:Yeah, and I only have the knowledge that I have, right. And so that's, that's always something that's missing from solopreneur ship is like, yeah, I might know a lot of stuff. But I am missing out on that feedback, that interaction, that collaboration, and collective knowledge and intelligence that can happen when you invite other people in, even in just small ways, even in just really small ways. That can really enhance your business and in ways maybe you didn't even expect.
Unknown:Yes, yes, exactly.
Ellen Leonard:So how do you stay healthy, happy, insane. Well, running your business hiring 40 people, we got that. But then what else is there?
Emily Perron:It's clearly though I don't really have.
Ellen Leonard:I know, I'm totally kidding. But I love how she's like, No, no, really don't have 40 people
Emily Perron:I'm hearing and be like, What is she doing?
Unknown:Uh,
Emily Perron:no, I think a couple of main things is I prioritize sleep a lot. So I have like a really healthy evening schedule. To help me like wind down and get ready. I have an early bedtime and then I get up early as well. I've just found that works really well. And then movement, I have to exercise every day, I've really had to prioritize movement and nutrition. So just like getting in healthier foods, that I'm not perfect. But I've really moved into that intuitive eating the last few years. And I'm really, really loving it. It's been just so much more easeful. And so I think those three, those three pieces really make a big difference for me.
Ellen Leonard:And what do you notice? That happens when you don't get to do those things? Because everything you listed are essential to my business to you. And I know what happens in my life in business if I don't sleep or eat properly. I don't want to say Armageddon, but I'm curious what differences you notice.
Emily Perron:Okay, well sleep is the worst. If I don't get the sleep that it's like productivity falls off. I'm just like crabby or like I don't function very well without sleep. So that's why I put it first. And then yeah, I guess movement when I like get away from like movement and good nutrition. I also just get like, irritable or something like antsy and like I have extra energy to bird or something. I don't know. I just need it for me mentally. It's just that important. So I still keep to it in the morning, as well before work, because I just need that to like, get into the workspace.
Ellen Leonard:Yeah, I love it. And I love how whenever I asked that question, I always get different answers that we're all so unique in what we need to function at our best in our business. And that different things work for different people. So I always love hearing that. So thank you for sharing.
Emily Perron:Yeah, I think my husband would call it Armageddon. Angry Emily is just not good. Like all around. No one's getting what they need.
Ellen Leonard:hangry is also a word that's been used in this household. I may or may not have been called a monster in the past when I've been not fed. I understand kind of like a Godzilla situation, but that's okay. So, um, if people want to connect with you, how can they reach out to you or work with you? Yeah, so
Emily Perron:the best place to reach me is on Instagram. At Emily dot paren, it's p r o n. That's the best way to follow my work. But I also like I said, I work with private recruiting, I met Emily parent.com, if you're interested in in that, and I have a signature program as well. So I created a course called the hiring fix. And it breaks down my process, especially for solopreneurs. So that, you know, you might not be at that level of having someone recruit for you. But it takes my process that is so consistent and works every single time and, and not even just for me, it's working for my students as well. So it has all the templates, all the samples, I also break down every small step in the hiring process into a quick video. And so you don't have to even like watch the whole course to like get benefit from it. You just have to like do it as you go. So it's it's there for you every step of the way. So
Ellen Leonard:Oh, sorry. So if any of you are like, yeah, I need to hire somebody. But it sounds exhausting. It sounds like Emily's got you covered.
Unknown:Yeah,
Emily Perron:exactly. Oh, yeah. And so yeah, any questions to from this episode? I'd be happy to like take questions on Instagram. I, I do that pretty regularly. And and I love it. It's so fun to meet people that way.
Ellen Leonard:Well, awesome. And I will be sure to link to everything she just said in the show notes. And thank you so much for being with us today. Emily, I had such a great time.
Emily Perron:Awesome. Thank you.
Ellen Leonard:Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. I hope you found it as interesting as I did. I have completely shifted my mindset about asking for help in my business, and thinking about ways that I can just make things easier on myself so that I can get back to doing more of what I love, which is helping people manage stress. So if you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss out on future episodes. And be sure to check out the show notes. If you'd like to leave a review. Not only do I love to hear from you. But also every time you leave a review for the podcast, it helps other people to be able to find this podcast. So if you leave a detailed review about what you like about it, what how it helps you that can help other people to find it. And that is certainly my goal, which is to help more people. So be sure to check that out. And as always, all the links we talked about are in the show notes as well. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you truly enjoyed the podcast and found it useful. And I wish you a healthy, happy and mostly sane week. I'll see you next time.