How NICA Is Transforming The Future Of Mountain Biking With Amanda Carey

This is my family's first year as part of NICA. (For those that don't know, NICA--aka the National Interscholastic Cycling Association--is an organization that gets middle school and high school kids together in a team environment to ride and race mountain bikes). My husband and I are coaching, and our 6th grade son is a student athlete.

In just a few months of being on a team (go Boise Brave!), we caught the NICA bug. It's a fantastic organization that promotes fun, inclusivity, equity, respect, and community! 

So obviously, I was very excited to sit down with Amanda Carey for this interview. Amanda is the President of NICA (and a fellow Idahoan), a former professional mountain bike racer, and a woman who is making a difference in the lives of kids and in our community. 

Even if you don't have teenage kids, you'll want to listen to this episode to find out why NICA matters for the bike community and how you can get involved.

Show Notes: femmecyclist.com/amanda-carey-interview/

NICA homepage: nationalmtb.org

Chapters

• 0:00 NICA President Discusses Youth Mountain Biking
• 11:54 Inviting and Supporting New Mountain Bikers
• 16:24 Promoting Girls' Participation in Mountain Biking
• 28:34 Importance of Inclusivity in Mountain Biking
• 33:39 Promoting Service and Community in NICA
• 37:44 The Inclusive Nature of NICA
• 44:10 Coaching and Community in Mountain Biking
• 47:35 Finding Peace Through Mountain Biking

Transcript

Kristen: 0:00

Hey y'all, it has been a while. That's because I took the summer off to spend some time with my family and to ride bikes. Obviously, and in addition to some fun bike trips, we did like going to Park City, we also started this summer doing NICA. Now, for those of you who aren't familiar, nica is the National Interscholactic Cycling Association and it is a fantastic organization that brings high school and middle school kids together in a team environment to ride and race mountain bikes. Both my husband and I are brand new level one coaches and our son is a sixth grade student athlete, so this is all brand new to us. But just in a few short months of being a part of a team Go Boise Brave we have caught the NICA bug. It is such a fantastic organization and for that reason, I was really, really excited to get to sit down for this interview with Amanda Carey. Amanda is the president of NICA, a former professional mountain bike racer and a woman who is making a difference in the lives of kids and in our community.

Kristen: 1:13

Even if you don't have teenage age kids, or even any kids at all, you will want to listen to this interview to find out why NICA matters for the bike community and how you can get involved, should you choose to do so, and I would highly recommend it. Real quick, before we jump into today's episode, I want to tell you about the training plans I've created for you all. Whether you're looking to get a little fitter or faster, or you have a big event or race you need to prepare for, a structured training plan can help you achieve your goals. I have a variety of pre-made training plans you can choose from, or I can build you a custom training plan specific to your needs. Podcast listeners get 50% off with coupon code PODCAST50. Head to femcyclistcom to get started today. Amanda, thank you so much for being here today. To get started, can you tell us just a little bit about yourself and your background with biking and what you're up to right now?

Amanda: 2:15

Sure, and thanks for having me. I'm really really excited to be here. My name is Amanda Carey. I'm the president of NICA, which is the National Interstitial Cycling Association, and I've been president here for the last couple of years gosh, almost three but I've been on the NICA staff since 2017. And I actually started with the organization as a volunteer back in 2015.

Amanda: 2:35

But you know, my biking story, I think, might mirror a lot of women's biking stories, as we didn't grow up doing it as kids. I mean, I had a pink coffee like the rest of them and rode around the neighborhood a bunch and had a lot of freedom. But I was a ball sport kid, so I played basketball and softball and I was into horses. I was really into horses, but it was funny. When I went to college, I had expected to play basketball. Now, don't be impressed, I wasn't very good. It was a D3 team and it was kind of one of those walk-on situations and I played gosh not even a semester and realized it was just not. It was not only not a good fit, it kind of sent me on this trajectory of looking not only for new sports but new adventures. I ended up going to college in Colorado, so, growing up in Massachusetts, went out West and discovered snowboarding, but just discovered a whole new world of outside uh, of outside sports, right. And so, um, I didn't really get into mountain biking until I bought one as a commuter. Believe it or not, I lived off campus my senior year, but one of those, uh, little GT hardtails maybe it was a $300 bike at the time, but it looked fancy to me, uh and and rode that a bunch, you know, just around school and hanging out with friends.

Amanda: 3:45

But it wasn't until I moved to Jackson Hole because I had this grand plan between college and what I thought was going to be grad school, which would just be a ski bum for a year, and also again realized not a good fit when I realized I did not want to pursue any more school at that time and I mean, no one intended I just I needed something to do in the summer. So I just kind of started riding that bike with some friends on trails and it just kind of grew from there and I it grew because I think of the community I think I've said this before, I've told my story Um, just the people that were in the mountain biking, they were into cycling at the time they were just such a good community and that I think you know will come full circle when we tell the story about NICA. But that's really for me what cycling became all about. And um, I also quickly realized I had some ability and I got a little obsessed really into it. Um, with not only new places to ride but just new challenges, and that led to a whole uh series of events that um allowed me to turn pro um in 2008. So again, don't be impressed the pro back at the time. I think a lot of women will understand this. A pro is essentially just a category that you're racing in. But I did join the Kenda team in 2008 and left a career in nonprofit. That was.

Amanda: 4:55

The other big shift for me is I had had a series of nonprofit jobs in Jackson with some great mentorship, like lots of great leadership that I got to work under, learned a lot, learned a lot of you know trial by fire and I I just had another switch. There was like, well, maybe riding pro full time is a thing to do, but also I discovered that I wanted to change career at the same time. So when I became pro and was racing a whole bunch. I started a master's degree in sports psychology thinking that that was not thinking, but still to this day was really where my interest was going to lie in the future, because I had left nonprofit feeling kind of a little bit burnt out and I think a lot of us that have worked in nonprofit for a long time knows that energy in nonprofit can really ebb and flow right. There's huge peaks and valleys because the work is really important, but it's also really hard and I was really fortunate to be able to ride in a lot of places. I focused on ultra endurance racing, so I was doing 100 milers and things like the Breck Epic and Transylvania Epic and just fell in love with the sport even more.

Amanda: 6:06

But again, it was just, it was all about community for me. It was all the people that I met, all the opportunities, all these you know great random rural communities that I got to go to and ride my bike. You know every single step of the way. It was just like, well, this is about, you know, seeing big parts of the country but also just seeing and meeting a lot of fantastic folks. And so, even though I retired from racing oh gosh, it was I feel old now, maybe nine years ago, 10 years ago haven't done a bike race since then. Still, some of the best friends and best friendships I've ever had have come out of those years of being a cyclist. Yeah, so twisty, turny journey, but I don't think probably inconsistent with a lot of, you know, ways that women have found their way into the sport.

Kristen: 6:49

Yeah, and so now you're the president of NICA. I mean, obviously we know what that is, but for folks listening who don't know what it is, can you tell us about it?

Amanda: 6:57

Yeah, I can. It's funny, I always think of mountain biking as a niche sport and the more I'm out there in the world, I realize that it is, and that's part of the goal with NICA. For sure is to get it out there on blast. But no, nica is the National Interstitial Cycling Association. We were founded in 2009. We're a mission-based nonprofit and we believe in strong bodies, minds, characters and community. And our core values are fun, inclusivity, equity, respect and community. And, like I've mentioned before, I've been a part of many nonprofits before and I've never been part of one that has so much strength and conviction and attachment to its core values.

Amanda: 7:37

So we do mountain biking structured team-based mountain biking for 6th to 12th grade across the United States. So we have 32 leagues in 30 statesth grade across the United States. So we have 32 leagues in 30 states right now across the United States. Someday probably international, that's a to be determined thing. And again, the focus and the emphasis on Nike programming is really on that team-based sport right. So we have about 26,000 kids in the program right now nationally and about 14,000 coaches.

Amanda: 8:04

So if you do that quick math, it is about a two to one. So what we what I often say about NICA is that, yeah, we're here for the kids and we do it to build community, and we by far identified more as a youth development organization before a sports organization, but we include adults in a really, really special way as well, and, I think, families right. So I think what that is probably one of the most unknown things and undersold parts about NICA is that the way that we include the entire cycling community and that that real invitation and dependence upon parents and adult volunteers, I think is really what makes the whole thing special. So, again, we've been around since 2009 and you know we have a goal of and it's a big, it's a big audacious goal, but a goal of having a hundred thousand people in the program, uh, in the next 10 years.

Kristen: 8:55

Yeah, I love how you mentioned family, because I'm this is our, our family's first year doing like, uh, my son is in sixth grade. Sixth grade with my husband and I are level one coaches and it really has been such a cool thing because it's not like dropping him off at soccer practice, like the whole family goes to practice. The whole family goes to these race weekends where we camp with like the other families, and I think it's unique in that way that it's like really special that it gets to be an entire family sport as opposed to just like a youth sport. And I also have some girlfriends who do not have children who have decided to become coaches and I think that that's like really special for them to get to be part of that family environment as well. So, yeah, for folks listening, it's like just like a really, really amazing, amazing organization yeah, and it's funny too, because I'm in the same boat.

Amanda: 9:45

I don't have kids of my own.

Amanda: 9:46

It's just my husband and I and two dogs, and we, um, you know, part of my NICA story is we started, we founded the local team here in Teton Valley, idaho, uh, in 2015. And, uh, it consumed our lives for the next, you know, eight years being head coaches and team directors. Um, just being part of a community, especially having left, you know, a pro career, being a little soured on the mountain bike industry, just in general, entering into NICA was just this not only breath of fresh air, it was more of this realization of gosh. This is how it should be. This really is how the sport should be right. It's welcoming, supportive, and not only supportive and welcoming to kids but to entire families.

Amanda: 10:27

And then that is the model at NICA. We are a completely volunteer-led and run organization and we have lots of paid staff, of course, to run the programs. But we could not be here without coaches like you and your husband and anyone without getting involved. And it's funny, most coaches I talk to they, you know, they end up entering into NICA thinking they're doing it for the kids and then they come out somewhat maybe surprised and a little bit self-conscious about the fact that they get out of it more than they think the kids do believe it or not, which is just such a wonderful thing about the whole. You know the whole program, the way it's set up and the entire community behind it.

Kristen: 11:05

On our team. We live in this area where there's a lot of mountain biking, and so we just have naturally like recruit a lot of families, because it's what everybody does. But I'm curious what NICA does for recruiting outside of areas like ours or families like ours, that mountain bike. How do you reach kids that maybe haven't had a mountain bike background and experience?

Amanda: 11:26

Yeah, it's hard, right it's. It certainly isn't easy, cause we were talking before about mountain biking being a niche sport. Nica is a little bit of a of a niche community and programming in and of itself and I think you know, over the over the course of history, we've really just relied on a lot of word of mouth. I mean, obviously we do the traditional marketing and outreach and and all of our local teams and leagues do do outreach and, um, you know, we call them dirt tours, right, really go around and travel the state and and try and drum up interest in the, in the sports. But really and I'm sure we'll get into this in a second what, what we do need for mountain biking, and especially with women. It's just that intentional invitation, right, and the idea that if we treat everyone equally, they will find us on their own, absolutely discounts where they're coming from and most folks, right, I think what we found is we're doing a good job of finding those mountain bike families or mountain bike adjacent families, right, say, you're a kid and you have that crazy uncle that rode you know, rode bikes and just happened to take you in the woods a few times, or you just have one or two steps removed from someone who knew about mountain biking. Uh, we're almost fully saturated with with those folks, right? And I think that for for the future of mountain biking, for the future of Nike in general, that focus is on new riders in new families.

Amanda: 12:41

Um, and it has to be repeated intentional invitation, but invitation with support, and I think that's really different. I'm just saying, hey, this program's here for you If you want it. It's a, not only here's this program, here's the, the intentional invitation to the team meeting, here's the equipment, here's you know, and and I and I don't actually think it's negative at all to say some handholding, because mountain biking is a, it's a, it's an intimidating sport in the sense where you need to know where to ride, you need to know what equipment is. And I think approaching folks with that invitation but with support, it's not just a hey, come ride with us, it's a. I'm going to meet you here at X time and I'm going to have this bike for you and I'm going to set you up for some success and then some follow-up.

Amanda: 13:24

I really do think that that's key to not only growing mountain biking in general, but to the sport that we love, if we're going to grow and progress and have more places to ride, and our mission really is to get more kids on bikes.

Amanda: 13:37

Is more kids on bikes for life right? It's getting that happy, healthy outlet of doing something off screens is really what we're going for and, gosh, it's almost like Nike is too good to keep secret. But we also know that there's some pretty significant barriers to entry if you aren't already a mountain biking family or even just a cycling family in general. So I think, again, it's that intentional invitation and I think our teams are doing most of that work. I mean, again, from the national perspective, we're doing a lot of marketing and a lot of outreach and you know we have all the supporting materials and things. But it really does come down to that one coach or that one student athlete you know saying to their friend or their neighbor I'm doing this cool thing, come join me, you're welcome and we'll help you. I think there's a big difference there.

Kristen: 14:23

Are there any good examples of teams that you've seen do that? I don't know. Are there any teams that I don't know have, like loner bikes or anything like that? Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Amanda: 14:30

I wouldn't single out just a single team, but most of our leagues at this point have literally those things try it out bikes, where we have a trailer of bikes and we do try it out events. So we'll go to communities, some that are near trails, some that aren't. I mean, we'll use grass fields often and play games and do things like that. So, yeah, it's absolutely intentional recruiting. And then most of our leagues have loaner bike fleets, right, so if kids don't have bikes, that they can sign up for them and use them for the season. We have got plenty of scholarship programs. But, yeah, it's that intentional outreach. But, honestly, the best recruiting we see done is by the student athletes themselves. It really is, it's the families and the student athletes, and especially with girls, right, if they invite their friends, if they just say, hey, I'm doing this cool thing, you should come join. That's really what we need more of and I think our student athletes are really good at doing that.

Kristen: 15:22

Yeah, so you mentioned the girls. Can you talk a little bit about the GRIT program?

Amanda: 15:26

Oh, of course, I could talk for hours about this. So exciting, yeah. So so GRIT is NICA's specific initiative to recruit and retain more female riders and coaches in our program, so it stands for Girls Riding Together, and we started it. It was in 2018, where we were, you know, taking that first hard look at ourselves and our demographic in the, in the mirror, and I don't think we liked what we saw. I still don't like what we see, but I see progress, which is the most important thing, because at the time, our girls participation numbers was only about 16, 17% of the organization.

Amanda: 16:00

And it was really low. And you look at mountain biking in general, at that time it was just a click higher right, probably high twenties, and it was really low. And you look at mountain biking in general, at that time it was just a click higher right, probably high 20s. And it's hard to get good numbers and so the numbers I gave are our numbers and we keep pretty good stats, but at that time you know that's not an okay number. We're 50% at least of the population number. You know, looking at that low percentage of girls participation is not something that we were comfortable with. We just knew that we needed to do something different. Right? You can do the same. It's the definition of insanity, right? Doing the same old thing and hoping that more girls will join in, just because, if we're doing the same old thing just wasn't going to work.

Amanda: 16:38

And so we started this initiative specifically with a pretty wide range of ideas and just started trying things. I mean, I would put a pin in that one for a second and just say, if anyone's approaching, whether it's, you know, trying to increase girls participation, underserved communities, dei in general you just have to start right, you just have to have a commitment towards this is something that we need to fix and the exact how I don't know. We're going to keep trying, and so we took a little bit of that approach in the beginning and has now morphed into a very highly structured, you know, well marketed and understood program. But really at the time it was, and still is, focused on specific invitation, and I think that's really, when we talk about recruitment, what we were talking about before with those new families. Grit's the same way. It's saying hey, we not only have a space for you, we are intentionally creating a program, a space, an event, a logo, a sticker, whatever it is to say we not only want you here, we want you here, we're going to help you be here, we're going to help you be more comfortable here is when you look around and it's 16 or 17%, especially if you're a 12 year old or a 13 year old, that you look around and you're like, well, this isn't fun, I mean, maybe for some girls. I think absolutely that the co-ed nature of the sport works just fine and it is a co-ed sport in general. But I think when you look around and you don't have coaches that look like you in general, but I think when you look around you don't have coaches that look like you, you don't have coaches who understand what you're going through, especially as a young female athlete, there's just a big disconnect. And I think what we also know and this is just from research and data that girls are more sensitive to poor coaching than boys are, believe it or not, especially at that age. We know that having great mentors and having great coaches which again is a hallmark of the NICA coach programs, you know only as a level one, there's, there's a lot of education that goes along with it, because we know that quality coaching is pretty much the number one reason, besides fun, that kids stay in sport. So, with attention to all of those things, the grit program has now morphed into this wonderful program that just has so, just so much stoke behind it, I think from the entire organization.

Amanda: 18:48

We talk about male allyship a lot, but it's morphed into, you know, we have team events and these team events can look anything like, you know, the girls sleepover, or the girls specific nutrition seminar, or maybe just at one team practice the girls go off and ride together and the boys go off. And again, it's not often and we don't do it constantly, but it's just making sure that at the team level and at the league level when I say league it's just events too so at our races, that we have specific areas for girls to just be with girls, and it's not required, but it just creates that separate intentional space for them to connect with one another. And what we've seen is that our percentages are skyrocketing. I mean, we started at that 16, 17%, we're now up to 24%, almost 25% girls and almost 26% female coaches, and our female coach rate was almost at the same number that our girls participants was. So we were making a lot of progress.

Amanda: 19:43

And it's funny because it doesn't seem like it's rocket science, but at the initial start of the program we and you know, once in a while we still get that pushback of you know, why do the girls get something special and the boys don't? You're like, well, gosh, where do? Where do I start with that no-transcript, trying to explain to folks that you know, doing a specific initiative or specific invitation for one group doesn't mean that the other group's going to get any less right. It's that old saying of it's not just we have one pie and everyone gets a sliver of the pie. It's like just make more pie. That's really what we're trying to do, right, and everyone gets more pie, and I think over time it's become just one of the most amazing programs that we have.

Amanda: 20:45

So at um, at most of our races now, you'll see a grit pre-ride. That's specific just for the girls, and so for those aren't familiar with cross country riding, it's important to pre-ride the course. So the day before the race, or sometimes the morning of, there's an opportunity for everyone to get on the course with their coaches and look at it and you know ride hard sections and things. But most of our leagues now take about an hour and in Idaho does this and they close the course to everyone but the girl. So it's just the girls get to go out on the course together with their coaches.

Amanda: 21:16

Um, and it's just turned into this wonderful supportive community and you'll see boys at the grit tent supporting.

Amanda: 21:19

I mean it's. It really has turned into again this, this, this intentional invitation, has turned into what we hoped it would turn into all the time, which is the main pieces of retention right. So the, the spirit behind great is not just once we get you, you know, in and join, joining and enjoying the program, it's once you're there you're having a great time. And once you start having a great time and you feel you know, supported by coaches, and you have folks that understand you and you feel supported by the boys and the men and everyone, it's just, it's a win-win for everybody. And we've seen grit spill over back into the entire community, meaning it's not just for girls anymore, it really is just for everybody and for everyone to be that cheerleader behind. Everyone is welcome and should feel welcome. And yeah, it's been. It's a huge success and I think we'll not only continue. I think it's going to continue to bump those numbers up, because a number of our leagues are already over 30% girls, which is pretty exciting.

Kristen: 22:15

I think those pre rides on before the races, the grit rides, are just so fun and at least in the Idaho League we have a theme and like the girls will dress up and we, the coaches, dress up, and it's just like a really, really fun bonding experience before the race. And I think it also helps encourage some of the girls who maybe not would not have wanted to go to the races, to go to the races just to do that, and then once they're there, they feel more confident and ready to race.

Amanda: 22:40

So yeah, absolutely. It's all about community, right. I mean, I think it's you find your place, and it's not just unique to mountain biking, but when you find your community, there's nothing that you won't do, right To be a part of that community. And I think, especially with girls, giving them that little bit of boost in their confidence is it's just inherent in mountain biking, right, as they learn that they can do things. And this is just isn't girls, this is good for everybody. Yeah, it's just so exciting to see when you have a girl who's like I don't know if I want to race, I don't want to do it, but you know my friend is doing it, so I'm going to go give it a try. It's again just setting them up for the opportunity to learn about how hard they can go, or that they can do hard things or they can challenge themselves. I think is one of the biggest benefits of just, you know, nica, mountain biking and grit in general.

Kristen: 23:29

A hundred percent. So NICA has the word cycling in it. So I'm curious why? Why is the emphasis on mountain biking as opposed to, maybe, road biking? And also why cross country as opposed to I don't know downhill racing?

Amanda: 23:46

Sure, great question One I've asked myself often and I get asked often, so it makes total sense. Yeah, so I think you know it's funny. I I know from conversations about back in the early days why we call it cycling. I think, generally speaking, taking a big step back. Nica's goal is cyclists for life, right? If we and we know this, in the end of season surveys that we do for our seniors that leave, 97% of kids say that they're going to continue to ride their bike when they leave. For me, that's the most important statistic that we have in all of NICA is that if we can instill in you a love for cycling, a love for the outdoors, a connection to the sport that you can go and it's going to help you with your physical health and your mental health, I mean that really, there really is the goal of the organization. So, having said that, cycling it's a pretty broad umbrella, right, and I think people understand cycling a little bit more than they understand mountain biking. But, to be clear, we are a mountain biking organization and we are specifically cross-country mountain bike racing, and I say racing meaning that is the format that our events take, right, and most of our kids will try a race here and there. Some are very serious, some don't race at all. We think about maybe it depends on the league what 65, 70% of the kids in NICA race and some don't. So when we say racing, it really is just that format of cross-country mountain biking. Really it's just that format of of cross country mountain biking.

Amanda: 25:07

Um, and I think you know what we found is the goal really of NICA programs is to not only get cyclists for life but to keep kids in sport and to keep them, you know, engaged in a sport that they find fun and exciting and challenging. Um, but most importantly, it's a team-based sport. And so what we found, especially in that sixth or 12th grade age, you know, if you have kids, um, they want to do what their friends are doing, right? And and I think what's really different about NICA and the founding premise behind it, was that any kid can pick up and go to a race with their dad or their mom or their uncle or whoever, right, and but you're a kid at an adult event and this just doesn't feel quite the same. So what I think NICA has done very intentionally is created a youth specific space with youth specific focuses and structures that are going to keep kids excited and keep them in sport, right?

Amanda: 25:55

So I think that, again, when you think about middle school and high school, they just want to do what their friends are doing. You know, I hear this all the time. And the girls leave for the volleyball team. Do you like volleyball? Oh no, that's what my friends are doing, right, and I and I, I totally understand it, right. So I think that that is the premise behind um. You know, the structure of of Nike right now is that it's cross country mountain biking, is the is the one that is most set up for team-based mountain biking, and then also, um well, I don't want to say, the safest but it is the easiest to administer, if that makes any sense.

Amanda: 26:29

And administer in the sense where, you know, teaching a beginner how to downhill is very different than teaching a beginner just to ride a green cross country trail. And so, in terms of inclusivity, the team format, the inclusivity of our coaches, same thing, because I think the higher you go in the skillset, like for the Enduro and the downhill especially, you need a higher level of skill for coaching Um. Just for the all of those reasons together, we've chosen to stick to cross country racing, um and the cross country riding um. You know, never going to say never that we would do anything else, but I think, for you know, for all those reasons, even though it is the cycling association, we're focused on that cross country because it really is the most inclusive format that we can find.

Kristen: 27:09

Yeah, I love what you mentioned about the team format too, because you know we, unlike you, growing up, we decided not to encourage our son to do both sports like. He did try baseball and soccer and stuff. But we always like, encourage these lifetime sports. But the challenge with lifetime sports is they aren't usually team sports and so this has been really special and good for him because he sees his friends like on the football team and the basketball team and now he says well, I'm on the mountain bike team and that part of it is really important. I think when you were first introducing yourself, you said when you left racing you had kind of soured on the whole mountain bike scene. How do you see mountain biking today? What do you maybe not like in it and what do you see NICA creating in the future? What would that look like?

Amanda: 27:57

Oh gosh, that's a great question, I think. Well, specifically, I think it's important to recognize that mountain biking is the best it's ever been. I mean, it's where, what? I'm not even a 40 year old sport, so I think access to trails, the equipment, I mean everything, the, the clothing, the, everything. I mean we it's as it's as good as it's gonna well not get, hopefully. I mean, I actually sometimes I wish the bike industry would stop tinkering with things and giving us more things to buy, but I do think it's important to recognize that. You know, right out of the gate, right now, it is the best it's ever been. However, we can do better and we're going to have to do better.

Amanda: 28:34

And I say do better meaning, you know, going back to what we were talking about before with the inclusivity, I think if we are going to keep growing our trail access, to keep growing, um, the demand for community trails, we need to be part of and be more inclusive to a wider mountain biking community. And I say mountain biking means just trail users in general, right? So my previous position, um, before I came to Nike, I was the executive director of an Inba chapter over here mountain bike the Tetons and got really in my nonprofit career prior to that, had been in a couple bike pedestrian advocacy organizations, so I really understood it and I think again, having been out of advocacy for a little bit, it still is. I think the most important thing that we need to do moving forward is just to be more inclusive. And so it's like, well, what does inclusive mean? What does that really mean? Is it's making sure that, even within our own little group, that we aren't eating each other alive.

Amanda: 29:32

If that makes any sense, I think mountain bikers' ability to fight with other mountain bikers just makes no sense to me, right? So you've got the issues of, you know, e-bikes or not. I mean, we have to sort the e-bike thing out too. I think that that's going to be in the rear view mirror, hopefully sometime soon, um, but I do think that oftentimes the mountain bike community doesn't do itself justice because they don't actually advocate for each other, right? So there's, there's a start from that, but I do think the most important thing is, um, inviting new folks to the sport. Like and and it's. You know, it can be as simple, as you know, when you see someone at a trailhead, say hello, not give them the stink eye.

Kristen: 30:06

You know what I mean.

Amanda: 30:07

Like there's and there's a little bit of attitude. I think in some communities that's better than others. But I think, just in general, not pulling the ladder up behind us right, like we don't want any more riders, we don't want our trails more crowded we have to think about it in the opposite ways. It you have, we have to think about it in the opposite ways. More ridership means more business. More business means more pressure on local land managers to build more trails. Right, and I think the, the, the fractioning and the mountain bike community, I think, is a little bit in the rear view mirror now too, but that's going to be the most important thing is being a unified voice, for here's what we want in the future and I do think maiga has a huge part of that. And, um, you know, from my experience of being in advocacy for so long I don't want to say that I got soured on it, but I did realize like, oh gosh, this feels like in a lot of ways, pushing a boulder uphill, cause it is. I mean, sometimes it takes six to eight, 10 years to get trail development plans from, you know, conception all the way up to building. But I also think that NICA in the next generation of cyclists and, more specifically, the next generation of advocates that we are trying to develop. That's going to be the impact on the mountain bike community for the for the better, I think, in the future. I mean, I always I've told this story before, but I always know when I see a NICA kid on the trail, within 10 seconds of of, you know, interacting with a kid, cause most of the time they're going to smile, they're going to look me in the eye, they're going to pull over, they're going to have great trail etiquette and even if you know they're teenagers and they make a mistake and they, you know, don't see you, they're going to be gracious, they're going to be kind, they're going to know to get out of the way. And and I think that that is really what is going to change mountain biking for the, and I really do think that the, that attitude of the more the merrier um, is really one that our student athletes embrace and they're just out having fun and enjoying the trails and I think that's contagious to the coaches and then that's contagious to the um, the entire community. But I also think that's making a mark on on the positive nature that we can have on all trails and all communities, just in general too. So I don't mean to overplay it, but I really do think that NICA is changing the sport and the culture of the sport for the better, because, again, they're going to graduate and they all have it.

Amanda: 32:20

At this point we've graduated over 90,000 kids from the program and they take their NICA experience into the mountain biking community and you'll even hear some of the Olympians and top riders in the cross country scene right now.

Amanda: 32:32

They were NICA riders and they are really drawing on like we all should be, those great experiences and the connections and the relationships they had as kids on these NICA teams to say, well, this is how it should be moving forward.

Amanda: 32:44

Right, it should be fun, you should be out riding with your friends and it can't be all serious all the time. And so that is my greatest hope is that what NICA is doing for youth, for mountain biking, will actually, if we continue to be successful which I think we will, as we grow more, that's going to have an undeniable impact on what the future of mountain biking should look like. It needs to look like so that we can grow, and I think you know, without NICA, we'd be in a very, very different spot right now, I think, with cycling in the United States, and it's funny because we have no elite development goals whatsoever. We're about inclusivity, we're about getting kids outside and learning a, you know, a healthy sport. That's good for their you know, physical and mental well-being. But it's also having this just amazing positive impact, I think, on the landscape of cycling in general, and that's just a really positive after effect of focusing on the right things in our programs.

Kristen: 33:39

One thing I really like about NICA too is that you have these different age groups and you see a lot of that. You know the high school students like mentoring the middle school students and these middle schoolers really looking up to them, and I think eventually those middle schoolers grow up, may become the mentors, and I think that that is probably conditioning them well to later in life be willing to turn around and reach up and pull people up with them. So I think that that has an impact on the culture too.

Amanda: 34:05

Yeah, absolutely agree.

Amanda: 34:06

And that's, I mean, that's what being human's all about right Is is, you know, one of the the number one things of of how people stay healthy and well through old age is relationships, is connection, that's it.

Amanda: 34:20

It's having the connection and doing things for others right. And I think that there is that service ethic all amongst NICA, where it's everything down to. You know, we don't do podiums at races until everyone helps tear down all of the course tape, all of the everything right. And then we have our Teen Trail Girl program, obviously, which is encouraging teams and student athletes to do trail work right as a service project and to count those hours. So there really is that ethic of service, I think, ingrained in everything that we do, from our coach education to the way we ask our student athletes to show up and how we ask our parents to participate. It really is all about community and I think that hopefully, one of the best things that our kiddos are going to take out of our program into their adult lives is its service right. Service of a mission, service of others can have great rewards for yourself.

Kristen: 35:08

Yeah, For folks listening that would like to get involved. How can they get?

Amanda: 35:13

involved. Oh gosh, so many ways. Um, number one I'd encourage you to. If you don't think you're going to be a good coach, go give it a shot. Um, I, like I said, we have about 14,000 volunteer coaches and if you have the time, um, even if you don't have kids, you're someone like me about three. And if you have the time, even if you don't have kids, you're someone like me about 25% of our coaches are not parents. Go give it a try. It is so rewarding and most teams will work with you on the schedule that you have. You can't make two or three practices a week or all the races. Just showing up is an amazing gift. I mean, I always describe coaching as a gift of service and so I would say, give that a shot.

Amanda: 35:50

But if that's not within your means or your schedule, your time, you can always donate. I mean we subsidize these programs pretty dramatically. I mean more than 50% of our overhead in our budget is fundraised because we understand that mountain biking is not a cheap sport, right? We have access, we have bikes, we have equipment. Mount biking is not a cheap sport, right, we have access, we have bikes, we have equipment. So we do a lot of fundraising to keep the you know the cost of registration and the cost of of essentially doing business and insuring and putting on all these events low. So that is as attainable as possible. So you can always donate. Those go to can go to scholarships as well. You can always volunteer at a rate too. Most NICA races take anywhere between 70 and 120 volunteer positions to put on a race, and this is everything from registration to course marshalling to helping in the in the start shoot. I mean, there's so many opportunities and as a parent especially, you can schedule your um, your volunteer hours so that you can still watch your kid race and and work around that too. So, um, and and I think you know, just generally speaking, I'll get the word out about NICA in general. If you know about us, if you are familiar with our programs and what we do, you know our focus on character development and youth development I think is relatively unknown outside of folks in NICA. And I think for us to not only grow as a sport but to grow in a way that we we know that we can potentially have an impact on youth sports in the United States for the better, I think. Just telling the NICA story to others who don't understand it is. It would be a huge, huge win for anyone who can. I mean word of mouth is is very impactful in what we do. So if you want to help tell people about NICA, if you've been in NICA, tell, share folks. You know with folks what your experience was because you know we I don't think enough folks who aren't a part of NICA understand is that we we're very different.

Amanda: 37:44

Youth sport and when you look at youth sports in the United States I don't mean to make a blanket, you know judgment of all of them, but generally speaking, the older you get, the better you have to be at your sport to get a chance to play Right. So when you think about going up to JV or varsity or not making the team and taking a big step back, which I love to do, often it's like well, why are we doing this? What is the point of sport? What is the point of youth sport? And it's not winning right, it's and we we do a lot of focus, obviously, like any good coach will do is you know where you're trying to focus on being your best, not the best and unfortunately, youth sports today. You have to be better at your sport to get the right to be on the team, and that's just fundamentally, and I know it's a structure of like you can only have 10 people on a basketball team. The football team is as big. But we're missing a huge, huge opportunity to have an impact on kids that they just should have the right to play because they want to, and at any level they want to.

Amanda: 38:40

Right, and I think NICA is fully structured in that way. Right, you don't have to race If you don't want to, you can just ride on the team and go to practice, um, and you can participate at the level that you want to. And we have some of the most serious hard charging training. I mean, you've seen him in Idaho crazy, those varsity fields are so fast and they take it so seriously. But yet we also have the sixth and seventh grade, or maybe just the junior in high school is like I want to casually participate. That's cool with me. We have figured out how to take those same, those two kids and put them on the same team and give them the same amount of value, same amount of experience of hey, if you just want to be out here riding, awesome, you are just as important as the one who's going to hit it hard. You know, train five days a week and whatever that looks like, and that's just that's really uncommon and hard to do in most esports.

Amanda: 39:29

Yeah, and I really do think that that's what sets NICA apart is the inclusion of families, the. You know, come as you are, we're going to include you, no matter if you're fast or you're slow, or you want to be serious or not. We're going to put you on the team where we're going to value you just as much as everyone else, and I think that that's that's really the message. I think that if, when I'm trying to tell the story outside of, you know the mountain bike community beyond, folks who know nika, that's what I'm trying to get across. Like, hey, what is the goal here of what we're trying to do? And I think what we're trying to do again, our sport affords us the ability to do that, just in the way that it's structured. Um, but I think a lot of sports could learn from from what we're doing and and be more in programming.

Kristen: 40:08

Because that's really what it is all about. Yeah, there was one boy this weekend at the race we were at and he was in last place. He had the biggest smile on his face and it actually started to make me tear up Because I was like nobody sits on the bench, everybody who wants to be here gets to be here, and they're really not treated any differently, like everybody'm.

Amanda: 40:29

Just, I think that all the kids, and it's through the whole organization, they're all like very inclusive and kind to one another and that's not a memory I have from my childhood, so it's really neat to see them be so kind and inclusive to one another yeah, and that culture is, um, it's contagious and it's also self-sustaining right in the sense where everyone cheers on everyone else, every parent cheers every kid that crosses the finish line. And you are right, there is no bench, there are no tryouts. If you want to be on the team, you're on the team, like, yeah, that's it, and it really doesn't matter how you know, how fast or slow you are. It's that that value is in the effort, and I think that that's really what is most valuable about NICA and just the NICA communities. You're going to get so much support, no matter you know what you're racing and how you're racing, or even if you're not racing at all, yeah, and I think you know Idaho does this and most of our leagues do this.

Amanda: 41:24

Now to the. We call it the party lap, where understand right, and we understand that, uh, racing can be intimidating. It's challenging right, and teaching kids that they can do hard things um, takes a lot of different levels of, of giving them the ability to, you know, self-select and include themselves. And so, uh, when we started the party lap concept a few years ago I think it was, maybe it was the Utah league, I forget which league actually started it, but the party lap or the single lap or the participation lap is you just get to show up. You don't want to race, you just show up and you ride a lap on the course. You can ride with your coaches. We've seen some kids with disabilities have great time in the in the party lap as well too, but most of the time what we see is the kiddos join the party lap and the next time they race, yeah, right. So it's giving them little incremental steps of support, right, it's. It's that invitation with support is always, I think, the most successful combination.

Amanda: 42:16

And we look at anything in our programming. It's like this is here for you, not going to push you, but I'm going to support you every step of the way. And I think, again, I I'm biased. I think mountain biking is the best sport in the world. I don't think I need to find another one. But again, I couldn't think of a better sport and a better way to teach kids that, um, they can do hard things, that they can overcome challenges, that every you know the metaphors. Every pedal strokes, a new one. If you're thinking about the last one, you're not thinking about moving forward, and it's just, um, it's, it's a sport that affords us so many opportunities to teach those life lessons. Um, and really it's a sport that affords us so many opportunities to teach those life lessons and really, at the end of the day, if they're having fun and they're enjoying it, no matter where they land on the podium or if they don't race at all, that's just a win for everybody. Yeah.

Kristen: 43:00

What have I not asked you that you would like folks to know?

Amanda: 43:05

Oh gosh, what I want folks to know. Oh gosh, what I want folks to know. I think you know, for as much as I've talked about racing, everyone needs to understand that NICA is so much more than racing. Right, I think that we have other programs as well. So we have an adventure program which gives, gives kids the opportunity to, you know, have experiences off the race course, so long adventure rides or, you know, team building, scavenger hunts, things like that. We actually have adventure events now that aren't focused on competition at all, so that's a big part of it. We already talked about the GRIT program. Now we have the Teen Trailcore Program, which is service and stewardship and giving kids the opportunity to do trail work and partner with local trails organizations.

Amanda: 43:48

I think last year and again I would probably undersell in these hours because most folks don't report their hours we did over 50,000 hours of trail work and so really, the Nike is more than just racing and I would encourage folks that you know, think that you know we're just the JV varsity, you know, fast kids on the weekend, just come, come, look and see what we're all about. We're not only very inclusive, but I think specifically to the coaches, cause I know I'm talking to mostly adults right now. Um, if you don't think you can coach, you probably can't be a good coach. Uh, because you know, when we think about, when I think about how to recruit a good coach, um, I'm not looking for someone who's the best or fastest or raddest mountain biker right, having skills helps. But we're really looking at, we're looking for coaches based on who they are, not what they do, right. So if you're kind and you're welcoming and you're patient and you're fun and you like kids and you're going to show up for them and you're going to listen and you're going to help them through their hard days, we can teach you how to mountain bike, and we've taught plenty of adults how to mountain bike too.

Amanda: 44:50

And I think the most important thing for folks I think to realize about NICA that they might think it's one thing, but it's grown and changed and morphed over time into this just wonderful accepting community that I think a lot of adults should join in on as well. So that's maybe the one parting thing is that we are a lot more than racing. I do think we are contributing to a change in the landscape of just cycling in general in the United States and we need more help to do that. And, again, that's not our goal. We're here for kids, we're here for character development and youth development, but I think the outcome of doing those things right and focusing on all those things, we've just created an organization and a program that we hope more people will join in on.

Kristen: 45:32

Yes, I have three final questions for you. The first one is what bike or bikes do you ride?

Amanda: 45:38

Oh gosh, how much time do you have? Let's see, I, um, I if folks who know me, I know that I'm a pretty diehard mountain biker, right, but I do own a gravel bike. So I just got a new Trek Checkpoint this year. I also have a Yeti that's set up with a 160, 140 coil shock. That's my big bike. I also have a new Trek Gen 6, which is actually I'm riding that more now than the Yeti I have a fat bike.

Amanda: 46:10

I have an e-commuter bike, which I love riding around town. I live about two miles from everything. So, um, it's a, it's an all city little. Um, I call it the Mary Poppins bike Cause it's got a big old basket on the front and a huge one on the rear, so I can do all my grocery shopping and you know trips to restaurants on that thing. And I think that's it for now. I think I'm down to like five or six bikes, um, and then you know my husband, and then I've got a husband who's probably got double that, and then he's also into motorsports too. So that's a pretty big garage with all of the all the equipment that we have but you know.

Amanda: 46:45

I'm not the first person to say this. And plus one, one right, it's the amount of bikes that you have. Plus one is always that next thing.

Kristen: 46:51

That's the correct answer.

Amanda: 46:52

Looking for that next thing now.

Kristen: 46:54

Yeah, Second question is what is your?

Amanda: 47:00

favorite place you've ever ridden your bike? Oh gosh. So we took a trip to New Zealand a few years ago, south Island. So if I had to pick a region, I would definitely say New Zealand. But if there was a place, finale, liguria, in Italy, we went there a couple of years ago to ride. My husband and I love to do like one big international trip a year to ride and Finale was, I think, as good as it gets. I could probably ride there forever and be happy. Partially the food too, but it was pretty amazing community over there.

Kristen: 47:31

And final question is what do you love most?

Amanda: 47:35

about riding your bike the most.

Amanda: 47:36

This is hard, I just I think the peace it gives me.

Amanda: 47:43

I am a diehard mountain biker and I think being a leader of a very large organization or it was very time consuming, but what hasn't changed for me over time since I found mountain biking in my early 20s all the way up to now, like mid 40s? The bike is the place I go to find peace, right, and peace is whatever I need on that day, which is distance from a problem or a really hard workout, or I just need to be out in the fresh air, or I want to be around a bunch of kids that just make me believe in the world. You know a lot better, I think. No matter, no matter what I get on a mountain bike and I just I find the peace that I'm looking for that day, which is just a, an unending gift, right, if you have, if you have a trail and you have a bike and you've got the energy for it. I always come back from a ride feeling better and more at peace, and that's just the best thing in the world.

Kristen: 48:31

If you want to learn more about NICA or you want to get involved, head to nationalmtborg to learn more. And I'd also love to ask you a favor If you enjoyed this episode, can you please go ahead and share it? You can do that by sharing it on your Instagram stories or just letting a friend know about it. The more that you help us get the word out, the more women we reach, the better quality of guests we get on the show. So it's a team effort and I really, really appreciate you. Until next time, happy writing.