E248: What to Say When Someone Asks Why You Don’t Drink

It’s one of the most awkward moments in sobriety when someone offers you a drink and you are not sure what to say. Do you tell the truth, make an excuse, or try to explain yourself? Matt and Steve talk about those everyday situations where being sober still feels weird, like barbecues, work events, neighbors, and family get-togethers. They share their own stories, what to say and what not to say, how to keep it simple, and why most people do not care as much as we think they do.

Transcript

Matt: 0:03

Up into the sober friend's podcast, my name is Matt Jay, over there is Steve co-hosting with me. And it gets weird when you start feeling like you have to explain to normal people what the hell is normal. Normal people who don't have a problem with alcohol that you do or you feel that urge that you need to explain something about you not drinking. So what the hell do you do in that case? This is one of those that I see on TikTok and Instagram all the time in those sober places. I don't know what to say! They're gonna ask me. So what do you think? How do you explain this one or maybe Steve you start with, what was your original experience especially when you first got sober?

Steve: 0:56

Good morning Matt.

Matt: 0:57

Morning.

Steve: 0:58

Yeah, when we just sort of touched on this topic, I said, I still feel uncomfortable at times, depending on who I'm talking to. And not as bad as it used to be, but it comes to what times really talking about being an alcoholic, because I still think that people don't completely understand what that, some, I shouldn't say people, some people just don't completely understand what that means. So we all have that different idea of what that is in our head. I certainly have it growing up in a, home of an alcoholic, my mom was. So I sort of had that thing in my head of what an alcoholic looked at, looked like. although that's changed a lot, as have I since I've come in the rooms,

Matt: 1:47

And

Steve: 1:48

I still, like I said, I'm feeling comfortable about, you know, how it is. I don't know, like my next door neighbor right next to me is somebody who I have a good relationship with. They've known from the beginning, since I moved in here, whi is 20 years ago that it didn't drink, right. It was one of these things where we were doing some stuff outside. I was helping my neighbor. And he had a wheelbarrow, and he comes over. This is when we first met, I first moved in, like we're just getting friendly and he's got two cold bears in the wheelbarrow. You know, and I still remember that day that I had to say, Oh, no, I don't drink. And at that time, I was very uncomfortable. I would not gonna tell him I was an alcoholic. I was just gonna tell him, I don't drink. So it's, it's always been a little tricky for me. Um, again, over the years, it's gotten less tricky. I don't have a problem telling anybody today. I also don't want to burn. I don't also don't shout it. You know, I don't shout, Hey, I'm an alcoholic, I'm in recovery. Um, so it's still a little touchy for me, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

Matt: 2:51

I think it's a little touchy for everyone for especially new people. This is one that is especially hard. You think that you're going to look like a freak. If you tell me you don't drink, I tell some people, and I don't tell others for me, I think this is a feeling out sort of thing. And this is really awkward because the world is full of social drinkers, events are full of social drinking. And then there are the whole thing. If I explain to me, I going to over explain it. Is that going to be nerve racking? What are they going to think of me? I think this is something that our audience deals with all the time. And I think something that might help a little bit is there is this thought that no, no, no drinking is normal. I'm on Tik Tok a lot, looking at a lot of doctors, flipping through as a couple of doctors that I really like. And when they talk about heart disease and that type of stuff, they talk about avoid alcohol. It's not good for you. So that makes it a little bit easier. I we went on a as a quick aside tying this in, we went on a college visit this weekend up to Springfield College. And after I was told after the fact, yeah, it's an athletic college. People all look like athletes there. And they didn't talk a lot about the big drinking parties. I didn't get the vibe that that's a thing. One of the places we went to they had an on campus bar which shocked me, but my son has never had any booze at all as far as I know. And he's told me he's been around it. And he just says no. So that changes a little bit, but you know, then they're at the adults who liked it. So there are all different type of events and strategies. I think the biggest one is the barbecue friends. What do you do there, especially if you haven't had the conversation?

Steve: 5:18

Yeah, it's always a little tricky. Like I said, for me, I'm just thinking as well, you know, we do this live. We do this with not a lot of Uh, this guy loves to drink, I've talked about like I just, I don't know if I ever talked to him without smelling alcohol on his breath no matter what time of day it is. And he's really nice and that's fine, you know, again, that's fine. And there's another couple that moved across the street from them around the same time, maybe a little bit before. And those two guys I see him all the time doing what I used to do, like they're really good friends and neighbors. And this is what I try to do, right? I try not to vilify drinking, right? Number one, and I see these guys, they both work, they come home, you know, in the summertime, you'll see them hanging outside, buy the pickup truck, they're both, they both have a beer in their hand or something. And several times early on, I would walk by them while they're not just them, but this person in particular, maybe some other people, he had some friends over and they were having, he's like, hey, you want a drink, you want a beer? And I would just say, no, no, thanks. And then I would say, I think at one point, I finally said, no, I don't drink. So he would stop asking me. And I always wanted like, maybe I should explain to him why I don't drink, right? Not because I want to help like nothing to do with his drinking. Only because I wonder if that makes it even more weird.

Matt: 6:57

Like,

Steve: 6:57

why doesn't Steve drink? Like, I mean, I think the first thing is probably, you know, you thought, okay, he had a problem with it, whatever. But like, I wonder like, I just say, list, I mean, we cover it, it's fine. You know, and then, but then I also, like you said, I feel like I got to over explain myself. Like, hey, I don't care that you drink like that's just like, I got to feel like, that's why I think it's still a little bit uncomfortable for me. I don't want them to feel uncomfortable drinking. I mean, that's right. So then I felt feel like I have to say, you guys do whatever you want, but I can't drink because I have a problem with it. So for me and my head, again, I'm maybe I'm over complicating it. It seems weird either way, right? Seems weird either way that I explain it or I don't explain it. If I don't explain it, it's out there of why or what's going on. And maybe it's none of their business, right? That's true. And if I do explain it, then do they get weird? Because, oh, here come Steve, the alcoholic on the street, although they're several of us on the street. And you know, maybe we maybe we shouldn't drink around them. Right? No, just it's just weird.

Matt: 8:10

Yep. I think the thing to avoid is the TED talk. There's no reason to give the TED talk to everybody. Even if you feel like you should. I think that is the urge of everyone, especially early on.

Steve: 8:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree.

Matt: 8:30

Really keeping it simple. They're the easy outs. Yeah, not tonight. I'm good with the soda. I'm good. I'm good with the salsa. But really it's a lot of not good. Now don't drink And there's a lot of people who don't drink for any number of

Steve: 8:48

again.

Matt: 8:48

reasons.

Steve: 8:49

Yeah, much easier now than it used to be, right? So say that.

Matt: 8:54

So there's that. Then there's the professional setting. That gets dicey because, well, before the pandemic, there's happy hours, networking events, there's still networking events. And those can get really alcohol drenched. I can remember going to one rather early on when I was sober and it was after an all hands meeting and it was out of place. I had an attached bar and I walked in to say hi to a couple people. And I was out real quickly. I didn't even give people a chance to ask. I knew I couldn't be there. And that's when I started actually calling people because it was really uncomfortable. I didn't have the desire to drink. It just, I didn't know what to do. I was in a situation where people are drinking. It's a networking event and I feel like I should still be there. But it was way too uncomfortable. And I erred on the side of getting the hell out. So there was no conversation. But that that can be one where there is more of a back and

Steve: 10:13

forth. Yeah. Something you just touched on there is it's somewhat to me, dependent upon How often you're going to see these people, how often you're going to interact with these people, right? If you're at a function where you can just say, oh, no, not tonight, not today, we're at a backyard barbecue or maybe you don't know everybody like, no, you know, some guys, whatever, some people are urging you to have something to drink. It's that sort of easy, you can push it off for that day. But when I was thinking about like the in the context of this neighbor, like I said, I walked a dog all the time and we're walking and they have two dogs and sometimes in this the other day sometimes I'll stop and the dogs will be playing in the front yard and that's when, you know, in the past, he would offer me a drink or something. You're like, hey, there's there's something in the cooler if you want one. So then it becomes like, if I have to interact with that person, often, I don't want to just say, no, not today, eventually I have to say, no, I don't drink. So they stop asking, right? And that's what I said. My first, my first, my first reply almost always is no, no, thanks. I'm all set, right? And then again, depending on how much I interact with these people, it may be, no, I don't drink. Now you come back to my neighbor, my closest neighbor right next door. Now they, I have told them that I'm in recovery. They know, matter of fact, I think I've told a story on this before I had the guy next door's name is Mike his last, his last name starts with a V. I had a good friend in the program.

Matt: 11:55

Yep.

Steve: 11:55

Mike whose last name started with a V. So I started a group of texts of alcoholic friends, but put my neighbor in the text. The other

Matt: 12:07

guy. Yeah.

Steve: 12:07

And so right. So I'm texting all these guys, and we're doing alcoholic talk. And then finally, he reached out to me and he goes, Hey, Steve, I think you got the wrong mic, right? And I think this was before I completely outed myself to him. So I was pretty obvious to him at that point. Oh, Steve's in recovery. Um, but they, but they, you know, they know. And so it all depends on the people, all depends on how I'm going to interact with them, how often. And all depends on what type of relationship I want to have with that person, right? Do I want to, do I want to be close to really care about it. I want to really get that intimate, because this is intimate information that we're talking about, right? I mean, like I said, not everybody needs to know. It's very interesting because you said, oh, you don't have to be a Ted talk. I absolutely one of my character defects is I have a, have a problem with oversharing, like,

Matt: 13:01

I

Steve: 13:01

right? And I mean that. Like I will, I will share stuff with people that's probably not necessary. And maybe more like, you know, and I don't have a problem with like medical stuff that's going on. I don't know. I just don't have a problem with that. I know some people do.

Matt: 13:14

Yep.

Steve: 13:15

Um, but like, especially with my wife's issues, like I didn't do some volunteer. I tell people what's going on, you know, I tell people. Yeah, she can't even use the bathroom. She's going to use it to come out like, I understand that some people may be uncomfortable with that, but I like to give people like, hey, this is what life is like, you know, I mean, this is, this is what happens sometimes. And I've been trying to dial that back. And I think I've done a pretty good job over the last few years. But I can have a tendency to do that, to want to give that Ted talk first time in and try to over-explain things.

Matt: 13:50

Yea, I can identify with that feeling and I think it is about feeling things out. That sometimes it can build a connection with somebody else when you do share something intimate. And I think it's

Steve: 14:05

Right.

Matt: 14:05

all about how? How do you do it?

Steve: 14:08

Yeah,

Matt: 14:08

who do you do it with? When is it appropriate? And when is it not? And I think that's, that's the harder one with the people you're around most of the time. I think the work colleague also falls under the neighbor. This is the group of people you see every day have conversations with every day. And that's the one where it feels weird. For me, I think the weird thing with the work people is, they in the past have seen me drink.

Steve: 14:41

Right.

Matt: 14:41

So I've gone from drinking with them to then not drinking. And that is probably one that feels more weird to me than it does to them. Because the reality, this is kind of skipping to the end of the story. Most people don't care. When I say they don't care, they don't care about you. They care about themselves. I shouldn't have said they don't care about you. I'm sure they do. But they care about themselves more. And they're not really listening and it's not for most people they hear it and they move on, depending on how it comes up.

Steve: 15:21

Yeah, it's one of the things we hear in the rooms and I just heard it somewhere else outside the room. And I don't know exactly what the quote was, what the context was. But it was basically that nobody thinks about you more than you think about

Matt: 15:34

Yes,

Steve: 15:34

you. right and I think we all struggle with that like we think and could I even said that to my wife She was talking about something and I'm like you really think that these people think a lot about you, right? This person like let me tell you they're not thinking about you as much as you think they're thinking

Matt: 15:53

about

Steve: 15:53

And I think that's a big key right we think that oh and again, I'm guilty of this trust me like this is me struggling with this too. Oh, I'm gonna say something to somebody and they're gonna remember it for the rest of their lives for instance The first time my neighbor came over with the two bears in the wheelbarrow. I bet you he has no recollection of that Right, there's just a natural thing to do Whatever, and maybe it does but it's very It's a very vivid memory in my mind because I part basically cuz I was uncomfortable right I put on the spot And at that time I wasn't working a program like I was not drinking but I wasn't working a program or anything and I just felt like all this is a new neighbor. You know but but and so so I guarantee you like he doesn't if I mentioned it to him He probably doesn't even call it and I think that's one of the critical things we have to understand is People they do care about us. Of course especially people you work with or people you know Yeah, they care about us, but they don't think about us. I don't have a basis right You know people are busy, you know we were talking, you know what before we got on you're saying about hiking and you're like I don't know how you guys find the time. I'm like well, we it's different for us, right? Like you

Matt: 17:19

yep,

Steve: 17:19

you have a busy life You you get off this podcast and you go on you you have to do your editing and all that but Then you go on with your life, right? You got college Visitation to do you got kids schedules to do you have work to do you have, you know Littlely grocery shopping to do all those things that it doesn't give you time to really Spend a lot of time dwelling about other people.

Matt: 17:48

Yeah. Yeah. I've got a soccer game a little bit later today A second soccer the third soccer game of the weekend. So it is Everything is sort of planned out and I have other things to do and that Comes the reinforces the point that People don't remember those little things. I'm sure your neighbor often times As a friendly thing brings a beer out to people.

Steve: 18:14

Yeah

Matt: 18:14

That's that's just a normal thing and people Like my father-in-law he never seems to remember he has very often put a beer up to my

Steve: 18:25

lips

Matt: 18:27

He's done that a number of times and it's easy for me to get offended because this is a family member I'm like how can you not remember this stuff? but he doesn't because he is only thinking about his own thing and They don't see it every day. It's not that that's the other thing is they don't see the the bat You remember the bad times

Steve: 18:49

right

Matt: 18:50

when drinking is a problem? They don't see the bad times so they they're not taking a back of ooh What am I what am I getting involved with giving this guy a beer?

Steve: 19:00

Right

Matt: 19:00

they only see you at your best,

Steve: 19:02

right and that that's a great point, right? Most most most most don't see that right so most of your People your neighbors some will obviously depending on if their family members how close they are but most people don't they have no clue They have no clue the risk of you having that up drink, right? That's what it is like the you know We're aware of the risk right of us having a drink or being tempted to have a drink Most people they have no clue right and again even this person down the street Who I tell you all time like he just seems to drink is it again? I I have no judgment and I mean this honestly. I have no judgment except that maybe he maybe he drinks and drives I don't know even though I don't even know about that But yes, and they both get up they go to work every day they keep a house, right? You know, they seem like really good neighbors. They've been helpful to me when I you know when I was broke my foot And I couldn't walk the dog they would stop up and take the dog for a walk with me like really good neighbors so I'm just no judgment on that at all by me and You know it's just like They don't know like I said they don't know they don't know how much one drink could lead to a Ruining of my life, which is really what it comes down to for me and that's why we're so, you know So I we pull back you know pull away from it so so dry Dramatically at times

Matt: 20:30

is the same reason I say no to cupcakes if it's

Steve: 20:33

Right,

Matt: 20:33

somewhere or donuts I can have I can have as many I'm as capable of having one drink As I am having one donut.

Steve: 20:41

Yeah me too

Matt: 20:44

So I just say- I just say no. Now I have had some, uh, handful of instances where someone has questioned it. Well why aren't you drinking? I don't drink. yeah, i'm just a glass of wine every day to get through. I could never imagine not. and, and that's usually when I hear that level of pushback, then I get kinda curious about- I hear that that doesn't sound like great drinking. Whatever reason I had, I can't remember the circumstance, but I heard something like this recently where- I think it was, I think it was like at soccer games I overhear in the parents talk about stuff like this. or they were kinda rolling in at an earlier soccer game like noon and saying, you know, I'm still in, in tough shape.

Steve: 21:53

ehm,

Matt: 21:53

And I'm like, okay, I'll make a mental note here. But even in those circumstances, I don't go into lecturing them or whatever. It's their life, I'm not, I'm not gonna get involved. But they find out I don't drink. That's one where I just try to be the best example possible, and then if they have more questions they'll come to me. But I, especially like the soccer, whatever it is, that, that click of parents, there is quite a bit of drinking going on.

Steve: 22:30

Yeah, if somebody comes to me with that like, hey, how do you get through a day or how do you do it? To me, that opens up that line of questioning where I will probably share more. And again, it depends on the situation and most, most times I'm gonna start with, you know something, I just found like it didn't work for me. And I just found like it started giving me some trouble. Or maybe I make a joke of it, which I've done many times, and I'd say something like, both of my wives and my lawyer said, that's probably not a good idea if I...

Matt: 23:01

That's

Steve: 23:02

Yeah.

Matt: 23:03

a good one.

Steve: 23:07

And that's the truth, right? It's that both of my wives did tell me that I shouldn't be drinking. So sometimes that will open up some communication, and I may sort of probe and see how much they want to talk about it, right? And that's what I mean. So I may probe it a little bit, put some information so if they wanna continue with that, then we can talk about it. And they say, did you go for help, or just something like that? That means, like, that's where the person may be sort of thinking about their own drinking, right? So that's where I may open up about it and say, yeah, I needed help, not a fact, I still go to it. And again, this is where I can get in trouble and start oversharing and start trying to explain the fact that drinking's not my problem. Alcoholic thinking is my problem, which is way too much for the average person to understand, right? Like the... it's easy for the average person to understand, hey, I drink too much, I can't control it, it's problematic for me. But when you start thinking, the real problem is my alcoholic thinking, and it's that that leads to my poor drinking habits, that becomes way too complicated for the average person to understand. And that's where we can get into this area of oversharing, doing the TED Talk, and sort of losing people on it. Because the most part people are gonna say, oh, that's not me, I don't have that problem, because that's what I said. Oh, I only have a drinking problem, right? I came into the room, so I'm like, oh, I drink too much, I get it. I drink too much, I can't drink. Yeah, I get that. It wasn't until years later, which I've talked about many times on this podcast, that I really figured out the problem was not my drinking, it was my thinking, and that led me to the drinking problem. So, yeah, again, so I will open up at times, and then I will probe a little bit, and again, I'm much better at it now that I've got some older, and I have some sobriety in my belt. But just'cause I'm older doesn't mean anything, but it really is because I have some sobriety under my belt, because I didn't get this program until I was older, like really get this program, and really understand what my problem was. Until I was a much older person.

Matt: 25:22

I'm gonna say things that I'm really bad at, but I'm able to see it in other people. You got it when you were ready to get it, and most people don't ever get

Steve: 25:33

it. Yeah, I agree.

Matt: 25:34

So even if you're older and you get it, that's a victory. And there are going to be times you overshare or get excited,'cause especially when you first get sober, you get really excited about it, and you're ready to diagnose everyone. So it's also okay to be forgiving of yourself if you do it in a socially awkward way. That is how you learn from things of what to do and what not to do. And if you do it in... an awkward way, it's okay. Everybody does it. Everybody makes these type of mistakes. If we didn't, we would not be human. Some things, some other things that are worth not doing, don't shame someone unless they're really, really obnoxious and then even then there are other ways of addressing it. But think about if somebody shamed you for your drinking, would that have been helpful or that have been hurtful? I think it was not going to. People get to, you don't want people to get defensive. You don't want to lie in a way that boxes you out. Oh, I'm on antibiotics. All right, what are you going to come up with in two weeks after that? And I've heard that a lot of like, I'm on antibiotics. I'm on meds, especially when that's not true. I don't know, away from the lies. And that's a common one, I think everybody has done it in some way because they don't know what to say. Because the other issue here is, and this is why we're talking about it, it's awkward for you as the person who's sober. And you don't know what to say because you're so afraid that somebody is going to judge you. That's what I'm afraid of. I don't want you to judge me, so I'm going to think of something that is easier to say, but avoid that one. When in doubt, it's just like, no, thank you.

Steve: 27:41

Yeah, I shared, I'm sure, I just remember sharing a few weeks ago, maybe a couple of months ago, who knows how long ago I shared about a time this exact thing happened, right? I was, I was working. I went out to a Yankee game with a customer who had gotten real good tickets and had invited another customer, like a different guy who I didn't know like customer to him. These are his customers. And, and we got there, right? And the guy, the other guy shows up and like, hey, let's go grab a drink. And he was like, he had gotten in, like, he had finished work, he had traveled to Yankee Stadium. Like, I get it, right? Let's go grab a drink.

Matt: 28:17

Right.

Steve: 28:18

And we're not going for a bear. We're going to the, to the alcohol line, right? And he's like, hey, what can I get you? And I remember, like, feeling very, this was early in my coming back, very, very early. And I was really uncomfortable and I did not know what to say. And I used the exactly one. And again, this is one of those situations that I've probably never going to see this guy again. I could say whatever I want. And I said, no, I said, I think I said, I'm not drinking. Not, I don't drink. I'm not drinking. And he said, why not? And I said health reasons or whatever, right? And it just felt awkward and look on his face made it awkward. And that whole thing, I just didn't feel, I felt awkward. So my point is, yeah, we all do that at times. We get uncomfortable. We may say something like that. And it's okay for a one out. Yeah, I'm taking like this guy could have told me I'm taking some meds. And I can't, I can't do it right now. But again, that was, you know, that was probably 13, 14 years ago, I don't know, 10, 12 years ago, something like that. The world has changed so much.

Matt: 29:26

Oh, yeah,

Steve: 29:27

so much. What's in regards to alcohol that it's okay just to say, I don't drink because I don't like to drink, right? I don't drink because it's not good for me. And whatever. So it's really easily easy and acceptable now, because I think everybody, even if you're drinkers, everybody knows, knows people who don't drink, not that our alcoholics and don't drink, who just don't drink. And so I think it's become so much easier if you're out there. And if you struggle with this, just to say, I don't drink. And again, not everybody needs an exploration. That's why you don't drink, right? I mean, it all depends on the situation. Who they are. What type of future contact you may have with this person, and how much you want to share. And then again, for me, I always think about it, at this point in my life, I always think about it, is that, do, can I put my, can I put myself in position to help someone if I share about my struggles with alcohol, right? So if people know about it, and again, I go back to this neighbor down the street, who seems to drink a lot, like if this person knows, and I never told him that I was in recovery, I never told him that I was, you know, anything like that. But if I told him that, would he ever approach me if he thought he had a problem? Maybe he sort of figured it out, and he maybe he would ask me in the future, if he did, I don't know. So I think about that. The other thing I do want to say is something that we have to be very careful with. And this is in our literature in the big book. It's all over. We don't want to vilified drinking. And I'm pretty good with that, right? I'm pretty good. And it was interesting because Friday night at my men's meeting, we're talking about Alcohol, advertisements and stuff like that. And a lot of people, I was surprised. A lot of people were on this room and this is a room with pretty good sobriety. We're talking about how, oh my god, I can't believe they're pushing this poison and all this kind of stuff. And, you know,the advertisement, the media, everybody's young, and good looking. And now that's true. But I'm like, isn't that vilifying the drinking? Like,

Matt: 31:42

yep.

Steve: 31:42

Isn't that what we're not supposed to do? And I don't do that, right? I mean, I don't do it at all. Even with people who drink too much. Like, I don't vilify it. Like, I drink too much. And I also think like, I know a lot of people, both my kids drink very responsibly. Right? Like, they could go have a couple drinks. And they're fine. So why am I going to vilify that when they can go out with their friends, have a drink or two, and be fine with that. And they don't drink and drive. They don't drink to access. I've never seen my kids anywhere close to being affected by alcohol. Like, being buzzed. Like, they may be like, I've never even seen them like that. And I mean, my kids are in their early 30s and even my wife's kids who are a bit older. Even they'll come in. And they'll drink some. And even them. And I know they will. They will, on occasion, go out and, or in the past, they had. So anyway, so I don't vilify it. I don't judge people. And I don't. I don't judge people on to drinking anymore, because I don't want to be judged. I didn't want to be judged. And, and I knew inside of me, there was so much more to me than people saw when I was drunk in, in that, in a good shape, right. And there's a little bit of regret and shame over that. But, so I try not to place that on other people too.

Matt: 33:18

Yeah, I think that's, yeah, you know, you don't, you're not going to be helpful by vilify especially when it's going to be, I'm thinking through the Rosetta Stone for our conversation today is, how are you going to make this a positive for other people that if they have a problem, you are a good example. And, you know, you're going to behave in a way that pushes people away. That's not a good thing. So I would, I would say this, keep points. Keep it simple. Simple answers. You control what you share. It gets easier when you practice. And then here's the big thing. People don't care about anything more than themselves, generally. All right. We'd always love to hear from you. I didn't get to emails that I went through this week, but I read, I read the emails and responded to them. We've got some good stuff. Some people who've got some sobriety. Some people who don't have a lot of sobriety reaching out at sober friends pod. com. Steve a great rest of your weekend.

Steve: 34:33

Thanks.

Matt: 34:35

We'll see everybody next week. Hi everybody.