E260: Lowering the Bar - Why 'Just Staying Sober' is a Championship Win

It’s mid-January, the "Pink Cloud" of New Year’s resolutions has evaporated, and for many in the Northeast, we are staring down a "marathon of dark, cold, and gloomy days". In this episode, Matt and Steve get honest about the "January Gloom" and a phenomenon many newcomers face but rarely understand: Anhedonia.

If you feel numb, bored, or like life has lost its "charm" since the holidays ended, you aren't doing recovery wrong—your brain is simply healing. We discuss why trying to "fix everything at once" (the gym, the diet, the 5:00 AM wake-up call) is often a recipe for relapse, and why sometimes, the greatest victory you can have is simply putting your head on the pillow sober.

What We Discuss:

• The Dopamine Gap: Understanding Anhedonia—the temporary inability to feel pleasure while your brain chemistry recalibrates after years of "instant gratification" drinking.
• The Danger of the "Great Reset": Why piling on too many new habits in January can burn you out and why you should "lower the bar" for your own success.
• The Default Plan: Steve shares his "built-in default" for when life gets stressful and why a meeting is his safe haven even when he doesn't feel like going.
• Sobriety in the "Muck": Dealing with physical setbacks like Lyme disease and surgery recovery, and learning to prioritize rest over "hustle".
• Tuesday Morning Clarity: The power of "playing the tape" and how sobriety allows us to show up for our families in ways we never could while drinking.

Key Resources Mentioned:

• Podcast: Sober Powered with Gill Tietz (for a deep dive into the science of addiction).
• Book: Never Enough by Judith Grisel (on the neuroscience of the addicted brain).
• Book: Living Sober.

"If you're in your first 30 days and you didn't drink today—that's a lot. That's damn good. Lower the bar, baby." — Matt J. 

Transcript

Matt: 0:02

Welcome to the SilverFriends podcast, my name is Matt J over there is Steve. Oh, we're in 2026 Steve and we're in that time of year where I find Winter to be more depressing, because you don't have the holidays to give it some type of charm. Charm is gone and now we just have this marathon of dark, cold, and gloomy days and it got me thinking a little bit about the January gloom and how the pink cloud can just evaporate. It's that gloom, it's gloomy winter and how do you stay motivated in sobriety when nothing special anymore?

Steve: 0:56

Yeah, do I'm at, uh,

Matt: 0:58

good.

Steve: 0:58

It is this time of year. Um, I always say that that hustle and bustle between the three major holidays or three of the major holidays Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year's and then nothing, rig? Nothing happens at all. Um, and, uh, so it can be that. It's not for me. I mean, I'm an outdoors person and I actually like to cold weather. So, um, I was talking with somebody the other day. I'm like, I'll take 25 over 85 any day.

Matt: 1:34

Yeah, it's all you.

Steve: 1:35

Yeah. And I know a lot of most people don't feel that way, but I do. And, um, so for me, I, I, I'm able to still do a lot of stuff, but I do get it. My wife, you know, a lot of a lot of people don't, and plus it is a. It is a trap time.

Matt: 1:50

hmm,

Steve: 1:50

Uh, depends on where you live, right? So we, we got low temperatures and no snow again. I'd much rather be outside walking in snow than it just snow on the ground, rather than what we have out there, which is a mixture of snow and mud and ice and water now. It's just, and it's just nasty out there.

Matt: 2:09

Hmm.

Steve: 2:10

Um, it can be very depressing. And if you're new and recovery, it can be a difficult time, right? It can be like, okay, I survived the holidays. Now, what do I do now? Like how do I manage this? Right?

Matt: 2:26

Mmm

Steve: 2:27

And, and it can get you into this thing where, oh, this is what it's going to be like this drab life, right? This

Matt: 2:33

hmm.

Steve: 2:33

is what

Matt: 2:33

Yep.

Steve: 2:33

we're talking about. It's like this is what I have to look forward to. And so, you know, we can all, we can all hit that wall at some times, but certainly if you're in early recovery, it can be a bit of an issue. Um, at this time of the year, for sure.

Matt: 2:52

I just found a vocabulary word, a word I have not heard before. And the word is an hedonia. That is the temporary inability to feel pleasure because your dopamine levels are leveling out. If you're a new comer in your first 30 days, your dopamine levels are leveling out. And it may be tough to feel any type of pleasure. You aren't depressed because life's boring. You're depressed because your brain is healing. And I can see that as being a relapse driver that don't feel good. I feel depressed. I feel numb. I need to get back on the sauce to feel something.

Steve: 3:40

I

Matt: 3:40

And that's tough that you have to walk over the hot coals that way.

Steve: 3:46

Yeah. There's no question. your early sobriety, um, certainly months, 90 days, six months, even maybe, right, your brain is like your brain is trying to repair itself. And there's lots of information out there. If you're interested in this kind of stuff of what happens as we feed our brain, alcohol and drugs and how we mess up the chemistry of it. And it will, for the most part, for many of us, it will reset, but it takes some time to reset. And just like you said, listen, I was an instant gratification alcoholic like I wanted that was my problem, right? Like, I wanted my buzz now. I didn't want to wait for it. So that, so I overshot it so much because I was trying to hurry to get where I wanted to get to. And then all of a sudden, I had a whole bunch of alcohol in me that wasn't processed yet.

Matt: 4:46

Like

Steve: 4:46

And then all of a sudden, you know, an hour and a half, two hours later, I was just wobbly drunk or blacked out. Um, so, you know, that's, that's what happens. And when I came into these rooms and I started to try to figure out how to live life without alcohol, I needed to slow that down a little bit. I needed to have some patients with what I wanted. And, You know, just like you said, let my brain, let my body, let my emotions all try to find some, probably a new normal,

Matt: 5:24

uh-huh.

Steve: 5:25

or maybe just normal in the first place, right? Maybe I never had a normal, I don't know, but certainly something new than when I was drinking because everything I did when I was drinking was fueled by my alcohol. You know, my pleasures, my ups, my downs, all fueled by my alcohol.

Matt: 5:45

I wish somebody had told me some of the technical stuff here. Because I'm closing in on 12 years sober in a couple months. I didn't know that there were physiological known things that happened to your brain when you're getting sober after a long period of time. It's something that would help me be prepared for knowing that it's normal if I feel numb for awhile, or maybe I am feeling as though I feel down because I am set with the expectation that things are now bad. No, it's not that things are bad, it's not that I have to go back to alcohol. For about the first 30 days, you're not going to feel great. You have to do a little rebuilding, and there is an actual chemical thing that's happening inside your brain that scientists and doctors know about, and that that's very normal. It's a glitch, it's not a permanent reality, and you will get better. In sort of trust that.

Steve: 7:08

You know, I think a lot of that has been around for a while, right, that information. It's not new. But I think it's widely accepted now. I think that's the difference. It's while maybe what's the difference is the difference is social media, not that I think about it, right? Because see so much of that by some people who do addiction stuff on social media where they talk about the brain chemistry and all that. So maybe it's been around, it's just able to get out there to a bigger audience now, because that's where I see a lot of it. And I follow some people on social media who address that type of stuff. Yeah, I mean, you know, you know, I talked about it. There's a book. I read a book a couple of years ago, and the book wasn't news. So I'm saying so it's been out there for a while called it's never enough. It's never enough. It's never enough. And it was about an attic who became a brain doctor again, the neurosciences. And then she wrote this book, and she was a pretty bad cocaine addict, and she just talks about the impact on our brains and all the all the stuff that you talk about, right? And it's just was it was fascinating to me. It's not an easy read, but it was fascinating. And that's the first time that I really did a deep dive into, oh, that's what I did to my brain. Like that's how I messed it up. And yes, it will heal. And not everybody. You know, we hear about the term web brain, right? You can go too far. And you can hurt yourself to a point where you can't recover. But most of us are going to recover and find some place that's okay. And plenty of information out there today is plenty of books. If you'd like to read, there's plenty of social media stuff. There's plenty of podcasts out there, pretty grow out and gets some more information. Your friend Jill, right? She talks a

Matt: 9:05

Yep.

Steve: 9:05

lot about this kind of stuff. She's out there talking about this stuff a lot. So again, I don't think it's new, but I think it's more widely accepted and more widely understood, right? I mean again, you know, even if you look at the a big book, they talk about it a little bit, but certainly back in 1939 they didn't understand it the way we understand it today.

Matt: 9:31

If you want to understand the science of addiction, go listen to Sober Power with Jill Teats. I can't do it as well as her. Nor do I have the desire. If you really want to dig into that, Sober Power is the best podcast for it. Nobody else does it better with a better background. It'll never be the thing that I can be the best at, but I can dig at it a little And I think about your book that you mentioned, it's never enough and there's a feeling with me of I should go read that. Do I have the desire to do it right now? Probably not. I think I could dig into it a little bit, but I have to lower the bar from my own success. That there is so much time that I have to dig in beyond the surface on certain things and that's okay. You as a newcomer need to dig, need to lower the bar for your success too. And it is very easy for people to do too much. I am very guilty of this. you quit drinking and now I've got to eat the right amount of calories. I've got to have the right diet. I got to hit the gym. I got to wake up at 5 a. m. I'm going to do all of these things all at once. And that is the worst thing you could possibly do. It feels like this is a great reset for for new habits. And that's correct. But you don't have to do that immediately. I have learned over time to reset things over a rolling period of time. I have not been to the gym since December 29, because I can't get my stitches all sweaty. They could get infected. And this is very hard for me. But I have to tell myself this is two weeks period of time that I'm not going to the gym two weeks. It's something that is doable for my long term health, where I will be if I can get my wrist and my finger and my middle finger healthy. Of the other things that I can do to also be healthy because I'm not in pain. But I can lift certain types of weights. I can do certain types of activities that have been very painful for a while now. And this is what I see with people that they dive into everything and burn themselves out and get them into a site, get yourself into a cycle of relapse. So what early on, what is your what's your success to me? It's just going to be an in drink today. Or maybe it's I read 10 pages of living sober. I didn't even get into the big book. 10 pages of living sober. I didn't drink today. If you're in your first 30 days, that's pretty good. It's damn good. That's a lot of people don't do that. So lower it down, baby.

Steve: 12:36

A lot of a lot of people when they get into early recovery, they try to do too much. Right? We see it all the time, right? Like you said, they want to, you know, not just you you were talking about we want to do stuff. We want to read that book. We want to go to the gym. We want to we want to fix everything. And again, that that was me like that instant gratification. I wanted it all. And I wanted it all now. And it's just not a great way. It's not just not a lot of success if you do it that way for for the most part. When I would I see new newcomers come in. And I find like when they start talking, hey, I'm going to the gym seven days a week and I'm doing this and I'm doing that. And most of the stuff they're doing is not focused on their recovery, I always am a little bit worried that they're just, they just don't get it. You know, they just don't get it. And, excuse me. But you're right. Early recovery is simple stuff. It's it is. It's like I didn't drink today and I went to a meeting like that's it.

Matt: 13:42

Yeah,

Steve: 13:43

that's it. Or I had a fight with my girlfriend and my wife and I didn't drink. I went to a meeting or I picked up the telephone. Or I or like you said, I picked up a book and I read like those those were measurements that I used all the time. I still use them today. Actually, when I get pissed off and upset and things aren't right in my world, I have a built in default that I go to a meeting.

Matt: 14:14

if

Steve: 14:14

And

Matt: 14:14

you want, go ahead,

Steve: 14:15

No,

Matt: 14:15

sorry.

Steve: 14:16

and that's just it. Like that's my built in default. Like when I'm really upset and I pissed off if my wife and I are at it for some reason. And I, you know, I need to get out of the house. I'm going to a meeting because number one is I identified that being an unsafe place for me, right, to be all worked up. And to be out out of the house without a plan, without a plan, you know, that could be a big problem without a plan. So my plan has always been get out of the house and go find a meeting and we talk about how that's that's typically pretty easily easy for us around here.

Matt: 14:58

Going to a meeting, set the bar low for this to you're in that place of I'm in danger or something's going on lower the bar and what you're going to do with the meeting. Even if you've got 20 years of sobriety, if you need a meeting sometimes, it is okay just to go sit in the back of the room of just be there and listen. You don't have to be the president of the meeting. You don't have to serve all the time. You don't have to share. You don't have to talk afterwards. Sometimes if you need to just lower the bar and say I'm going to the meeting, I'm going to sit there and I'm going to leave. That's okay too. If that's the difference between not doing anything and going to a meeting, then lower the bar for yourself and just just go.

Steve: 15:48

Those speaker meetings for me, I mean it, I go to speaker meetings to go sit, number one, I hope the speaker talks for a long time, most of the time, uhm, and I don't have to do any work, I don't have to read, right? I don't

Matt: 16:00

[BLANK_AUDIO]

Steve: 16:00

have to think about sharing, I don't have to think about what if the chairperson calls on me, um, because typically you're not going to find that kind of stuff in a speaker meeting, you're going to go to speaker meeting, you're going to sit there, you're going to listen to somebody's story. And if you're so moved to say something, you say something, if not,

Matt: 16:16

mm-hmm,

Steve: 16:17

and like I said, when you get, when it's over, you get up. Uh, my friend Jim K, he uses his last name, but I won't use it, and he listens to us all the time, uhm, he talks about it all the time when he came in, he's got multiple decades of sobriety. And he said something that I always tell people, that his sponsor, his early sponsor told him, "You need to find a meeting for every night of the week, so that if you need a meeting, you can go somewhere where you're comfortable and people know you, right?"

Matt: 16:52

Mm-hmm,

Steve: 16:53

and I've been able to do that, for the most part, I can go to any night, I started going out to a Sunday night, matter of fact I started going out to a Sunday night, I used a plain language, big book meeting, and plain language, big book, right. Uh, and I'm like, I have one of those, I bought it, I haven't read a lot of it, and I'm like, oh, maybe I should start going to that meeting, it'll force me into that book, and I'm not going to go to it every Sunday, like we're taping this Sunday night, so I didn't go to it. Um, I wouldn't have gone to it anyway, because I'm pretty tired, um, but it gives me an opportunity, like, I know people at that meeting, right. I went to that meeting for a couple of years, and when I walk in there, people say, "Hey Steve, how are you doing?" Um, and it's nice to be able to do that. So I did that, I can pretty much go to any meeting, and now that I've been around the while, and know so many of these meetings, and it's a comfort place for me, and it's a safe place for me. And I find that when I go to meetings, even, or especially when I don't want to go to them, a lot of times I'm tired, and I have a headache, like a lot of times I'm, these Monday nights, I've been going out, like I don't want to go to our Monday night meeting.

Matt: 18:06

Yep.

Steve: 18:06

And I have a headache, and I got it, and I go, and then once I get there and once I do the meeting, I feel fine. I do. I was like, everything goes away, I'm driving home, I feel fine. Um, it just, it just does something for me. That, um, that I like, and, so, so again, it's a default for me, when I'm really, when I'm busy, when a lot of stuff is going on, when I'm upset for me, it's a meeting, and it's not a phone call for me, some people will pick up the phone, it's not, it's for me, it's a meeting.

Matt: 18:37

I could, I did not feel well the last two Mondays last two Mondays one because one of the days I had surgery and last week, I was exhausted. I was exhausted going back to work. Rest is one of those things that you should prioritize of get some rest, get to better the reasonable time and a consistent time, and I'm not great at this. My son had volleyball tournament today. I went yesterday and I overdid it yesterday that I got up early. We drove to Tolin and drove to Hartford and went to two different kids sporting events. We really didn't settle down until the evening and I was exhausted. I, the, he started at 745 this morning. He didn't get home until, he didn't leave until 2 p. m. It's a very long day. And I would have, it to go because my wife was going one way with the car. I would have had to go with him and wake up at 5 a. m. And I'm glad it didn't because for the first time in about two weeks, I started getting achiness from Lyme disease and I hadn't had any Lyme symptoms and a couple of weeks and all of a sudden that it wasn't terrible, but it was assigned to me that, I know that achiness. And when that achiness is popping up, it means I have overdone it somehow. And so I jumped on the bed. I'm like, okay, I'm going to veg for a little bit. I clearly I'm going to get these feelings and I got to be careful about not overdoing it and get some rest from time to time and take care of myself. If you're one of those people and like, all right, I'm going to hit the gym, I'm going to reduce my calories. If you have chosen a new lifestyle, it's alcohol free. You want to do something for your health, call your doctor. The first thing you should do is make an appointment with your doctor to say, I am looking to get sober. And I haven't been, I haven't had a drink for this period of time, my drinking before this has concerned me. So I wanted to walk this through with you of what would you suggest I do to be successful. This is what doctors are

Steve: 20:51

for.

Matt: 20:51

And they probably have smoked you out that you had a problem, maybe even got sober because your doctor told you something. But there is something to be said for the first thing you want to do if you want to get healthy, don't hit the gym, go to your doctor, talk to them, they can walk you through some stuff. What will give you some advice of here's what you should do, here's what you shouldn't do?

Steve: 21:13

And even if they're not, if you have a good doctor that you like, they're gonna do exactly what you said. And even if they have some questions and they're not exactly sure, they're gonna be able to point you in the right direction. They're gonna be able to say,'Here's what I think you should do or here's who I think you should see.' Um, yeah, and they're gonna give you the advice that you're gonna give me some advice that's gonna be good for you.

Matt: 21:38

Hmm?

Steve: 21:39

'Cause we don't listen. I didn't know. I didn't know. And I still don't. I go see my effect, I go see my doctor in February. And, uh, and I've got a few things that I want to talk to them about, you know, and, um... You know, and I like them, and I trust them, especially now, there's a big thing going on with the group that he was working in, working with, was just bought out by a major group in Connecticut, which is a good thing. And, uh, so I'm looking forward to talking to him about that because I think it opens up some new possibilities for me. But, and that's what I mean, like, I like my doctor and I trust my doctor. So, I would go to him and say, 'Hey, and that's what I'm gonna do, right? I have some things that I need to address and I'm gonna go to him and say, 'Here's what I want to address. What do you think?'

Matt: 22:26

Mm-hmm.

Steve: 22:27

You know? And then he'll tell me what he thinks. And then I can make some decisions based upon that. And listen, I'm a grown-ass man. I can take his advice and I take his advice. So, that's what, that's up to me. But, um, but he's the guy who went to medical school. So, if he's going to, if he's going to advise me something, I should listen... At least take it to heart and listen to it and give it some weight.

Matt: 22:55

I look at every doctor, probably has seen thousands of lesions on people's dicks and up their asses. So, what I'm bringing here can't possibly be something that's going to rattle Dr. C. crazy stuff all day, every day. You're not unique.

Steve: 23:19

them now.

Matt: 23:20

You can have a conversation with them. And for the mot for unless they're terrible, they're probably going to say, 'This is great. I'm here. You're getting sober. Got some questions for you.' There's some things I just want to walk you through or

Steve: 23:35

maybe

Matt: 23:37

some things I can set you up for success or let's talk a little bit about how you were drinking. So, I can understand how your body's going to react now.

Steve: 23:49

Yeah. I agree. I mean, people I'm barried to One of my favorite... one of my favorite TikToks. They haven't seen it in a while. We're emergency room nurses or doctors who talk about patients coming in with things stuck up their ass, you know. But

Matt: 24:05

Yeah.

Steve: 24:05

they can't get out. And it's just so funny. They just shake their head. And that's what you mean. Like, they've seen everything, right? They've seen everything. So, the stuff we're going to bring them. Is pretty mild, especially with our alcoholism. For the most part, again, it'll be different for different people. But listen, for me, it's... I was thinking about it yesterday or today. I guess, I don't know, not yesterday. I had my grandkids all day yesterday. But I just was thinking about how I really value my sobriety day at a time. I really did. And I think about how I'm feeling each day. I was thinking about time for some reason. And, you know, I mean, I've got 15 years plus. But I was just thinking how I don't, I don't look at that. Like, you know, I do, I know people who, if you ask them how much time they have, they'll tell you how many days they have, right? Like, they'll tell you I've got 10,000 so many, you know, like, I don't do that. I have no clue. I mean, I'd have to calculate how many years and months I have, never mind days, because I don't pay attention to that. So everything that I do is based upon a day at a time and working through that day. So I get to a point where I have a bad day, whether it's because we're in blue January and we're in a, a really crappy part of the calendar year for those of us up in the northeast.

Matt: 25:41

when

Steve: 25:41

Each, um, if, especially if you don't like the outside, if you don't like the cold, um, you know, you got to, you got to sort of take it one day at a time. You got to sort of look at it and though, you know, I'm feeling crappy, just like you talked about your surgery, not being able to go to the gym. You know something? I've got this problem. It's not a forever problem.

Matt: 26:05

No,

Steve: 26:05

It's a temporary problem and that goes with the feeling blue, too, right? I mean, this two shall pass. We hear about, we hear that all the time. And that's the truth and that mean that's not only for bad things. That's for good things. So when you're riding high, just remember that, too, this two shall pass. and when you're when you're struggling, just remember that. It doesn't last forever, uhm, and again, that's my. That's my friend, Jim, he says. Uh, you don't have to drink today if you don't want to. And you don't have to drink today, even if you want to.

Matt: 26:42

Mmm-hmm.

Steve: 26:43

And that's what we learn in these rooms that we, you know, we don't have to drink, regardless of what's going on.

Matt: 26:51

Yeah, I couldn't care less about the number of days I have. I'm not going to calculate that out. It's not a big thing for me. I know I'm so for today. And I can tell myself that the weather today is not forever. It's going to be better in March and April, a couple of months from now. And then it will get gorgeous. But I also have coping skills now. Somebody brand new can't see beyond today. You got excited about dry January, and now we're moving to the middle of the month, and the excitement has worn off. What do I do now, my only way of getting through Glum Days is having a glass of wine on Sunday afternoon, that turns into a bottle.

Steve: 27:33

Right. Go.

Matt: 27:34

Now what do I do?

Steve: 27:35

Yeah.

Matt: 27:37

You're going to have to find something different, and that's a good time if I need to kill an hour, go to a meeting, pick up some quitlet, a new podcast, pick up the phone and call somebody. That's really where meetings excel is you can meet other sober people. And it's really helpful to know other sober people. Although now I find that there's just more and more of them as I look through like at work, I I find more and more sober people than I then I know what to do with. It just seems like it's more of a thing now.

Steve: 28:15

Yeah, I don't, I don't think I think it definitely is. I think there's just more of us out there and again, it's more noticeable. Listen, for you and I, you and me, I guess is the proper way to say it, we need other alcoholics.

Matt: 28:33

Yeah.

Steve: 28:34

You know, there's people out there who don't seem like they do. Again, living in the social media world, plenty of people out there who don't think they need a real fellowship or anything. But for me, it's every bit, it's the three-legged stool, right, for us. It's like the program, the fellowship and service. It's like doing all of that type of work. I need it and I need, I need that fellowship. I need those people. I need the other alcoholic. Right. I need, I need to do this. I need to sit here and record this with you each week. All of those things are important to my sobriety. And they help me get through the day, you know, I mean, I've had a busy day, we were talking a little bit when it came on. My day was busy. I had my grandkids yesterday and then dropped them off today. I probably got them, I forgot something in my car that my son needs. So we're going to make some plans to meet. He's an hour away. I don't want to do that on a Sunday night.

Matt: 29:38

I wouldn't either.

Steve: 29:40

Especially at night where I had my kids, I told him I slept, you know, I slept very, very lightly because I had my two young grandchildren. And the first time they've slept over this house that they weren't in sort of like a porta crib, they were in bed where they could get out of bed and walk around. So every movement I would hear, like, like the dog would get up a move and I would think, is that one of the kids up? So anyway, so I'm tired. My son needs what I have and I'm like, all right, after this podcast, I'll get in the car and I'll start heading down towards them, we'll meet somewhere in between. But and I don't want to do that. But that's life, right?

Matt: 30:18

That's

Steve: 30:19

life. I got it. Those are the type of things. And you want to know the interesting thing. Like, if I was drinking, I couldn't do that. I mean that, honestly, I couldn't do that. I'd be drunk right now.

Matt: 30:30

Yep,

Steve: 30:31

right? My wife's in bed. Everything, the kids aren't around. And I'd be like, okay, now's my time to get wasted. And I couldn't, I couldn't. I wouldn't, you know, I could tell him, yeah, you can come up and get it, but I can't meet you. so I'm a nasty beauty, as much as, you know, it's not a great thing, but I'm able to do that because he's tired too, right?

Matt: 30:54

Yep,

Steve: 30:54

Yeah, because he had three kids. He's got three kids, four years and younger, and I dropped them to two of them off today. So he's been with them all day, and he's got to get up and go to work tomorrow. So that's, that's just life as we talk about it, right? It's not just me, it's him. It's what people deal with. But for me, for me, it could be a little bit of a struggle, but today, today I'm grateful that I could do that. I can, grateful that I can get in the car and not be a menace to society, and meet my son. And I can only do that because, you know, I've worked this program of recovery, and I still work it today, after, after lots of days.

Matt: 31:42

Well, if you want to share on your thoughts around Blue January or hitting that wall or getting bored in sobriety, You can find us, matt@soberfriendspod.com or on the new website, soberfriendspod.com, Steve, go out there and drop off that nebulizer.

Steve: 32:00

Yeah, I will.

Matt: 32:01

And we'll see everybody, next week. Bye, everybody.