Building and Leading a Startup: Trials, Triumphs, and Lessons Learned W/ Trivelle Simpson

We are joined by Trivelle Simpson, the powerhouse behind The Drive Group. A master in business trend analysis and smart risk identification, Trivelle turned his tax return into a multimillion-dollar venture capital and real estate development organization. From working for large organizations like The Royal Bank of Canada and Manulife to serving as Chief Operating Officer for Chelle Service Capital, his diverse experience paved the way for his entrepreneurial journey.

In this candid conversation, Trivelle shares insights from his vast career experiences, touching on everything from startup team building to leadership evolution. Discover how his varied resume has contributed to the success of his business and helped him navigate the diverse challenges that running a business brings. Gain an insider's view on the hiring process at the early stages of a startup, and learn about the qualities Trivelle values most in his team members. Delve into the depths of startup leadership and learn from the tests he faced as he steered The Drive Group to its current standing.

Beyond business, Trivelle is also an acclaimed artist and speaker whose perspectives on entrepreneurship, politics, economy, and social trends are sure to leave you inspired.

Don't miss this episode filled with invaluable nuggets from one of the smartest minds in the business world.

CONNECT WITH PETER BOOLKAH

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ABOUT PETER BOOLKAH

Peter Boolkah is a business coach, author and speaker who has spent more than 20 years helping business owners build stronger, more valuable businesses that do not depend on them for everything.

He is the creator of The Hamster Wheel Trap® and author of Your Business Sucks: Build a Business That Works Without Destroying Your Life.

Peter works with founders and leadership teams on the issues that ultimately determine whether a business creates freedom or becomes another job: leadership, founder dependency, people, profit, execution, scaling, exit readiness and enterprise value.

His approach is direct, practical and built around one simple question:

Do you own the business, or does the business own you?

Learn more at https://www.boolkah.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Hi, Peter Walker here, and welcome to today's edition of the Transition Guy. Now, joining me today in the studio is Trevel Simpson, who is the founder and CEO of the Drive Group. Welcome to the show, Travel.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Thank you so much for having me, Peter. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

So, Travel, what is the Drive Group and why does it exist?

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Yeah, the Drive Group started out as uh a think tank. So, my my initial uh step into entrepreneurship was actually in financial markets, uh, taking a study of derivatives trading. Uh, my vocation coming out of school, I was a political science uh major. Um, so we uh took a view of politics and how it affected the economy and then made financial decisions based off that. That's how the drive group started. It was a small group of people trying to make financial decisions based off political subtext globally.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Um must be interesting for you right now, then yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

It it I I tell you, the I say to everyone the greatest uh credit I give to my team uh is that we've traded through uh the business was founded in 2016, so it's been a fun ride. We've gone through uh Brexit, we've gone through a Donald Trump presidency, we've gone through COVID, and we're still open. So there's something uh about us that, you know, at least we we we try and keep our our market assumptions tight. Um, and in terms of bolstering that position, it led to us making uh investments into real estate because diversity diversification is always important. And then it also led to us wanting to uh sort of motivated by my time at a startup as a as a head of operations, as a tech startup, uh, I realized that there was this need for funding for good, smart ideas. The process of receiving funding always felt so esoteric to me when I was sitting in that chair. So we created a venture arm uh that we felt was kind of direct. If you have a good idea, uh send an email, we will make sure it's reviewed and we'll we'll you know we'll we'll double down on it if it's something that we see can have value.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Okay, so interesting. So VC funding is really an important part of sort of especially sort of startups that want to scale up, yeah. Yeah, but from my time, especially being involved coming in quite late on, whether it's series two or the third round of funding, is by that time very often what we found is that the founders have potentially screwed up the business, they've given uh they've they've kind of they've given away the majority of their business. VC VC funders have kind of lost the money in that investment, and it doesn't work. So you going down this funding route, which I agree is needed, have you managed to circumvent the screw ups that typically happen when VC funding comes into play without the right level of support?

SPEAKER_00 3:25

I I would like to think that we have the system in place that will avoid that, but I think you you'll know from experience it'll be years before we determine uh how that goes because if you picked a horse, you keep betting on the horse, right? So we're still optimistic about all of our positions. Um, but I'd like to think that I look at VC funding from the position of a founder. I I wasn't a founder at the previous company, I was an entrepreneur, but I you know I bled that blood, I shed those tears. I knew what it was to go into a room uh with your heart and soul, but you know, pitch a product and and beg, not beg, but hope that someone resonates with that. Uh I know that passion. Uh unfortunately, I know what it is to um there's terrible stories of VC funding, right? You have um Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos, day before her pitch, uh, she she fakes the machine. Um, but it's weird because I've been in a room and I know I I remember that moment where the idea is, hey, the meeting's tomorrow, we're not ready. What are we gonna do? You know, and um I think of Bill Gurley, Thomas Kalanack, the the the the initial investor into Uber, and how how much I remember you know the story says that when Thomas met Bill, he was nervous, shaking, bought all the cabs to stay away from the restaurant so that Bill would be forced to call Uber at the end of the meeting. This was a guy he wanted to impress. Years later, to get Thomas Kalanak out, he says, I'll walk, but you gotta get Bill Gurley out off the board. Ends up hating the guy. So when I when I I I tried to look at these stories as cautionary tales, that this is a it's a it's a razor's edge. But the core concept, I think, for any uh venture investment is you gotta trust your founder. Uh you have to like your founder more than you like the idea. Uh that's my policy. If you like the idea, but you don't like the driver of the idea, there's no point because at the end of the day, it's not your idea. Uh, so you gotta like the founder more than you like the idea. I think if you do that, um then you have more likelihood for success than not. Because, like I said, Bill Gurley gets kicked off the Uber board, but Bill Gurley was paid to do that. It wasn't a bad investment, it was just a bad relationship. And you know, when people ask Bill, Bill said, I thought Thomas was a genius. So uh I try to read from that perspective.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

That's interesting. Actually, in the UK, we've got an entrepreneur called Stephen Bartlett, and I Stephen, Alex Stephen. Yeah, and he I just caught him on an interview recently, and he basically said like in his experience during sort of the whole dragon's den at the beginning, the big mistake he made was he backed the idea. By the time he came to the second series, he was back in the horse. And I suppose, yep, it's great to back the horse. And I think the step that's missing with VC funding is back the horse and then put the support in place so that because the person with a great idea doesn't have the experience to run the business with the organization, but we actually had the great idea and the support structure in place to basically mentor them in, and I don't mean mentor them from afar, but you work for a corporate business. I mean, literally the level of supervision that you are trained to become that CEO or that exec and train them to become that entrepreneur. I think that a lot of these businesses that get access to funding will be far more successful, and actually the failure rate will drastically diminish.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

I agree wholeheartedly. I think you even saw that with meta. People always say, why did Facebook make such an issue with the metaverse? How'd they get that done? I'll give your audience some homework. I encourage you to look at who the business head of Facebook was and who quit and then why they came out with the metaverse. There's one woman who was driving Facebook's decisions when they were one of the fastest, strongest, current companies. It was not uh Zuckerberg. Now, Zuckerberg's a genius, but it it took someone else to navigate that business. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

No, I don't know, I agree with that. How important do you think it is having a varied resume when it comes to sort of overcoming the diverse challenges that we face within business?

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Yeah, I think um it depends where you sit. I was I was at a I was at a dinner the other day, mixed with different sort of people. Um all were presumed to be mildly successful. This is why they get invited. But what was interesting is I could see the difference between the people who worked for Google and had a high salary and the people who had to go kill their own animal, you know, as they say, bake their own bread. Which is, I guess, what the entrepreneur is seeking to be, right? Right. And this the secret was charisma. The the the entrepreneurs, it's weird. They were they were always selling. I mean, they you felt they could walk into any room, been there for years, they they made you feel like they were your best friend. It's charisma. So, to that end, I think that the greatest tool any entrepreneur should know is it actually doesn't matter what you did. It matters how much charisma you left with. Because charisma is what will drive you. Charisma is what gets you the funding, charisma is what gets you to have a startup. When you think of a startup, you're you're underpaying and overworking people in pursuit of a vision. You know, you you don't get that out of people without charisma. You have to be a charismatic leader. Um I grew up in church, I think about pastors, you know. I I used to volunteer for hours for for nothing, but it was just this, you know, you're you're swelled up in this concept. And I'd like to think that entrepreneurship is the same way. So, in terms of what is the different path, what is your different history? I mean, I myself, I was a political science major, I worked at the bank, I spent some time in the arts, and now I've ended up in finance. There's nothing linear about that story. However, in each iteration of every step I took, I did require charisma to make it to the next step. And I think that that was more the muscle that I was evolving uh from strength to strength.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

What is it about the because I mean you've talked about startups a number of times. Why do you think that you you gravitate towards startups?

SPEAKER_00 9:46

This is gonna sound I uh hopefully I don't lose any of your audience when I say this. Uh, so I'm Canadian. Sorry. That won't lose the audience, you're fine. So I'm Canadian. Uh Canada is large in mass, small in people. So I didn't grow up thinking I could work for a Wells Fargo, a Citibank, a Google. Uh they didn't have head offices where I grew up. So if you were coming from where I come from and you want to leave a mark, you got to build that company. Uh so when I'm a kid and I'm I'm looking at examples, I'm looking at the guys who made something out of their garage. You know, I'm looking at uh I'm looking at the people who came up with an idea with their close friends and then brought it global. Um and I think that that's why it resonated with me because it was the vision I could see uh from where I lived. Now, granted, I I did go to school, I I I achieved my degree. There is a linear path that I, you know, I tried to give myself at least a parachute. Um, but when I thought of you know throwing punches and being in the arena with the greats, um, I didn't think of being the CTO of YouTube or the or the the next up at at Google. I I thought of you know building a company that hops into the ring with with with with the idols that I that I that I was studying, which is quite interesting because that's probably quite different to living in a major city thinking.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Where perhaps people are more predisposed to going up there and getting that corporate career. Yep. Even though in the UK, I mean everyone advised for working for a corporate. Yeah, in the UK they only make up 10% of the economy, they probably hold 90% of the press, but only contribute 10% to the actual economy itself. It's quite bonkers, really, when you think about it's a perception, right? Well, there is a perception and a misconception, I think, both at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Yeah, I mean it's it's the same argument with Manchester City, right? Manchester City is the huge club that you've never met a Manchester City fan outside of the Etienne, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Yeah, you see, now we're moving towards politics, they're starting to get dangerous.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

I'm just bugging you. I'm bugging you.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

But yeah, Pep's, I mean, look, Pep's a good example of a great leader, actually. Amazing, amazing. Probably one of the best man managers in the sport across the globe.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

I think the thing that marks Pep is his his willingness to make a drastic decision and live with it. He doesn't dilly dally, he doesn't waver. You know, when he's at Barcelona and he decides I don't want to play with Eto anymore. He it's still firing on all sides. No, not him. When he uh I mean, many times he's made he's made decisions and he was just willing to live with it. It's his call, you know.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

So but isn't that what you have to isn't that what you have to do as an entrepreneur? Well, you should make the ones that are successful, are the ones that make the decisions, the ones that die are the ones that fail to make decisions.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

It's a balance, right? Because I think there's a world where you need, you know, it's like if we're using the managerial concept, you need you can't lose the locker room. So you know, there's certain decisions you can't make, but it's also sensitivity to the decisions you can make, right? I I think of uh only because we're in football and I love football, I think when he when he when he makes his strong decision against Alba, which was a tough one because he's a leader in the locker room. But uh, you know, notwithstanding not knowing what will happen uh at the you know league, uh I think that that was a master stroke of leadership because it did something to the locker room. He it's almost like he almost lost it to gain it back. And of course that's what leadership and entrepreneurship is. You gotta know, you gotta know when the when the tide is in your favor and make a drastic decision.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

So you grew, I mean, so growing up in the sticks and everything, and you've seen that okay, starting a company up. When you actually started you, when you actually started the current drive group, my question to you is when it came to your first hires, what approach did you take and why?

SPEAKER_00 13:56

So I love telling this story. Um so I grew up in a town called Brampton, which is outside of Toronto. Toronto's our major city, but I'm about 45 minutes away. My father had been in supervision his entire work career, production supervisor. He taught me from when I was a kid, your C-suite, your workers you pick for competency. So my first hire is my best friend because I knew I could trust him. It was it was that. I the first person with you know, if if something happens to me, it's up to him. It's gotta be a guy you trust deeply. As you get further out, then you make hires on, well, that person's really smart, that person's really wise, that person can bring stuff to the table. But I'm a firm believer that your first hire has got to be somebody you'd you'd you'd give your wallet to. Um, if you know, or somebody you'd want to be in a street fight with if it came down to it. I believe in that. Your C-suite is loyal, your your your executive committee has to be skilled, and then from there is how you build your business. That's that's my personal viewpoint.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

That's interesting. What advice would you give people that perhaps don't have those people available to them that they know?

SPEAKER_00 15:11

So I my my my my advice would almost be a pushback. You do, and I'll tell you why. You're three T's you're either training, you're tolerating, or you're terminating. You're you're always doing one of those three things in leadership. When you go out there and you pick your best friend or your closest friend, you also have to make a deal with yourself that you're training. I'm not talking about them being good for the job or competent. I'm talking about them having a they have to believe in you. You're the you're the one. You're the you're the you're the one with the vision, you're the one with the plan. That first hire just has to help execute your vision. They just have to be able to follow instruction. So that means you have to be willing to train. Um, you have to be willing to train and tolerate. If you can manage those two things, uh, then that person is in your circle. You have people that are loyal to you all the time, whether you recognize it or not. Nobody gets anywhere alone. You can go fast alone, far, uh you go together. So that person is there. But I think what sometimes people don't accept is that the trade-off is you are training and you are tolerating a lot in the beginning because they didn't have the natural competency, but that's okay. You'll you'll eventually get to a point where where you're you're making an inverse decision. But um, I think those early day sacrifices are important.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

Okay, so you hired your best friend. Great. How did that crucial first hire significantly impact your startup's growth trajectory?

SPEAKER_00 16:41

I was fortunate that um my my best friend is opposite of myself. I I would consider myself probably a bit more uh political, a bit more agreeable, and I considered him a bit more of a hammer, a bit more of a a bit more rough. In that regard, um the greatest impact that occurred, there was a decision on client acquisition, a certain class of client that I myself didn't want to take on. I was worried about the additional drama, I was worried about um, you know, this is the headache of managing those people because I'm political. So when I think of onboarding clients, I'm thinking of how do we manage all of these expectations and you know, how are we handling all of this? I'm thinking political. You know, he's thinking bottom line. He's like, there's revenue here, let's go do it. The greatest impact to the business was uh that second hire uh grew us by 500% because he forced me to go down a vertical that I originally wouldn't have. Um, so there were we had we had made our business in sort of individual retail client basis, and uh he came to me and said that there's a corporate angle here. We can go take on entire companies, um, sort of go to bed management and take on entire companies, be their solution uh for financial consulting. And I thought, man, it's one thing when I'm going to a household, it's another thing when I'm going to a business who, if he has a bad month, is really going to be squeezing on me to make his return as high as it could possibly be. But uh yeah, no, he he was very confident that we would we would be successful and that in the instances where there were tough conversations to be had, uh, that we would have developed the adjective. That's his greatest contribution, uh, the growth of the business by going down a vertical, I wouldn't have gone naturally.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

That's pretty that's a pretty amazing story. What are some of the qualities you look at for potential in potential clients when you're looking to build that startup team? Potential clients or potential team members, but then no, when you sorry, potential candidates.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

Candidate candidates, yeah. Um, I personally like entrepreneurs, so I like people who wanted to start their own business. Now, this is gonna sound uh hopefully it doesn't sound indelicate, but I think there's a value to an entrepreneur. What's an entrepreneur? An entrepreneur is somebody who's willing to work it like it's their own, somebody who's willing to do the late hours, somebody who will proudly wear the brand on their chest, but they're not gonna give you a penny. Because, you know, their butt, their bread has to get buttered as well. And I think that there's been a value. I I used to ask that question in every interview. Uh, if money wasn't a factor, what would you do? If money wasn't a factor, what business would you start? And for every candidate that answered with something that I knew we could create under our company umbrella, they got hired. Because I realized I've unlocked it. And my again, another thing my father told me, your business will grow if, in the pursuit of their dreams, people are helping you fulfill yours. So it's always that. Hey, what would you do if money was in a factor? I'll tell you what, I'd be a video editor. In my mind, it's already okay, we're gonna run a media component of our company, we're gonna be doing videos, we're gonna be doing social media, you're gonna be in charge. Because in their in a in almost an indirect way, they are they are running their business, they are doing that dream. They're just doing it under a banner, and we're all now happy, right? So I like entrepreneurs, I love them actually, because they'll work long hours, they'll they'll they'll they'll come up with critical ideas, they'll be thinking of ways to pivot, they'll think of mitigating uh uh expenses, which is key when you're in a start, because they'll have an understanding that we all got to get to the finish line. Um, and it really won't just be about a check for them, it'll subconsciously be about the fulfilling of a dream that maybe they haven't been able to do in a long time.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

That's quite interesting, actually. Uh, all the personality sort of profiling tools I've come across over the years, I've never come across one that measured entrepreneurship.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

It could be it's worked, it's worked for me. Every every single every single person. I mean, the the trade-off though is that the moment you are no longer rewarding that component, they will leave. Um so that's the trade-off. But if but if you can if you can dead hit it, they're not leaving. And and and and and they will be kings, kings and queens amongst amongst uh amongst the masses.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

Okay, well then you bring up a really interesting point. If you don't satisfy their needs, they'll leave.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Therefore, in your opinion, what are the essential qualities of a great leader in a startup environment?

SPEAKER_00 21:27

I think that it's always important to know your core competency. So, um and not to not to overstep. So, for example, because I like entrepreneurs, I have waived the right to micromanage because they need to feel like what they're doing is their business, so that's the trade off. I cannot break that rule. The moment I begin to break that rule is the moment they feel like they're being micromanaged, is the moment But they feel like their entrepreneur lifestyle is perhaps not what they want. Then they start thinking I can get more money and not have as much stress. Then they start thinking this is not even my company. Then they walk out of the door. So I think it's just understanding in politics they call it the social contract. There are rights and freedoms that you waive in exchange for something. So you will pursue your core desire freely and perhaps with only monthly or weekly check-ins. Minimal input from me, I say it all the time. I am merely here to point us in a direction. You are there to determine how we get there. Even if I don't understand what you're doing, I put you in place because it's your child, you know. So I think you know, the core thing to know for me is I that's it's that simple. I cannot micromanage my people. I think it would create an environment that they would feel betrayed the culture that was sold to them in our initial interview.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

That's interesting. When going back to Pep, I mean, like when Pep took over, Man City, as we're using him as an example, that was very much a startup again. It was a startup team. What's interesting in all the years he's been there, very few people opt to leave him. So that's that's gotta be there's there's an and there's a lesson to be learned there in leadership for sure. And I should just think most you look at most football managers when they take over a club, the chances are the existing team doesn't survive anyway. Correct. Because they've got their own, they've got their own ideas on how they want to build a team. So it's for all sports teams, actually. Which means when you look at sports teams, they are literally your equivalent of a startup.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Yeah, I love it for that. My favorite manager for that reason is well, that's not a political, but uh my favorite managers are because of are because of their ability to you know come in and galvanize troops uh and towards a singular goal. It it helps sometimes even to play for a guy you don't like, but you but you think he's a genius. You know, I think of that's what Steve Jobs was. People say all the time Steve had an idea every 30 seconds, he was a but he was a jerk. But people will they marvel at you knowing you're late, you know, and just come up with an idea every 10 seconds, so they'll follow you.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

You know what? The the teams that were well under Steve Jobs didn't think he was a jerk a jerk.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Very true.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

That's the interesting thing, they actually were his teams, the people that didn't enjoy the whole culture and the atmosphere, and perhaps were not the eight players within an organization. Now they thought he was a jerk. But it does make you wonder who were the jerks. Something to consider. Indeed. So look, you've been in a startup environment. Have you had any instances where your leadership skills were put to the test in your startup? And more importantly, if so, how did you manage to navigate that situation?

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Ooh, that's a good one. There's a couple, a couple, uh, a couple stories I can think of. One in particular. We were working in cryptocurrency at the time. There's this young guy, he had come from a bank, but he was a the guy was a genius when it came to understanding this emerging technology space. Um I'll say this as a nugget so he knows I'm talking about him. Once we're in the office, the guy dead hit the issue with COVID. January 2019, he looks up and he goes, guys, this is a serious problem. The world is gonna shut down in two months. Dead hit COVID. The guy's a genius, brain operates on a level that I still marvel at. I think about him sort of in this in this almost mystic mystic way. But he was immature, he struggled with focus. So the thing is to get the best out of him, the job is I have to empower him enough. So I tell him, man, you're it's like a boxer, you know, it's like those Rocky films. You're the best ever. Nobody can touch him, you know. So you let him go, but you got to reelament because you got to teach him maturity, you got to give him skills. And there's one day we're at the office, and you know, because I'm, you know, I think we've come off about a good two weeks of giving him giving him the juice, you're the king of this realm. And he had taken his pants off, and he had his pants just lying around. It's still an office, for goodness sake. So I walked whose pants are these? Oh, well, why do you have your pants off? You're just gonna leave your pants hanging around the office. Now, you when I said that, I thought he was gonna just grab the pants. Sorry, you know, put them away. But he starts to challenge me. And I realized it's because he's thinking I'm a genius, I'm the best ever, you know? So he starts to, well, you know, the pants are there because, and now it's it's becoming a bit of a back and forth. The office isn't that big, so now you know the people are now the people have gathered, and then there's this fine balance where I'm thinking, okay, I have to win this exchange, or I lose the team forever. So I gotta make an example out of him. But he's my best guy, he's a genius, and that was a hard one. So I sent him home. I said, hey man, go home. He goes home, I huddle everybody together. I said, uh, I'm sorry you guys had to see that. Uh, but nobody's more important than the company, and you all know I think he's a genius. I nodded, yeah, agree. And they go back uh and they sit down. When he comes back the next day, I have a conversation with him. The key though, with the team meeting, because I know what's gonna happen, they're gonna finish work, they call Hate Khan, da da da. But one thing I made sure that everybody could tell him, because he's gonna say, Hey, what'd he say after I left? And what did everybody reinforce? Well, he said you're a genius, but then he had to he had to, you know. So he understood, but I did not undercut what I'd been telling him, and I didn't lose the guy, I didn't lose the team. But that one I always remember because I mean the guy had his pants on, he had to go, but you know, he's my best guy, so what do you do?

SPEAKER_01 28:22

Well, I've never heard that one before, so that's an interesting one. So 216, you start you did you you hit the startup phase. Yeah. How do you continue to evolve your leadership style to meet the changing needs of the business and the team?

SPEAKER_00 28:38

My greatest, my greatest gift to the drive group as a as a company was when I took on the challenge in in 217 of being the head of operations for uh for another business, the tech company, doing the two things simultaneously was the greatest gift of all. I I worked under someone else. I was the number two, which was an incredible ego check. You realize that um there is no such thing as a hierarchy, there's only roles in a business. We all just serve different purposes. Um, it was a different vertical. Obviously, at the tech startup group and fundraising, I wasn't in the funding position. And then the key uh just became that that a good leader wears many hats. A good leader is capable of wearing many hats. Or at the very least, that's what I took from it. That I would never, you know, I wanted my team to always see me in the mud with them. So if we're working late, I'm staying. Even if what we're doing is nowhere near my skill level, uh if it's in a virtual environment and you call me, I'm up. I don't care if I'm out to dinner. I don't I don't answer and say I'm out to dinner. Okay, I come out. What is it? We're in the trenches, we're together. Just a team that knows you'll you'll bleed with them. Um but also I don't don't overglorify your own struggle. So if you're pushing late hours, don't tell anybody. They'll see it. If you're you know pulling something off, don't tell anybody, they'll see it. Because when you show up after a week with a with a miracle new client or a new revenue stream, subconsciously they'll think, oh man, this guy's been working the whole time, and he's been there in my corner. You know, here we go. I'll fight for this guy or for this woman, depending on who's taking the position. But that's that's what I'd say it was. It was working the two businesses simultaneously, uh, is the greatest gift of my life.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Awesome. But you're right, that time has come to an end. It's been awesome. If people want to hook up with you, follow you, etc., what do they need to do?

SPEAKER_00 30:37

So I always encourage people to, you know, like I'm uh I'm sure people can tell them company first, brand first. So I encourage you to follow. If you want to follow me, follow the company, it's uh the drive group ink on Instagram. So at the drive group uh ink on Instagram. And if you just want to take a look at our our wider content online, uh go to our website, www.thedrived group.ca. Again, www.thedrive group.ca. Links there you'll see to our YouTube. We have long form business content where we're uh you know looking at different things like the debt ceiling, like uh you know, changes in politics, which we have witnessed here today, uh sort of market and economy shifts. Uh and then RFC, our Instagram is fantastic, where you're getting small portions of that content plus information on our contest, uh Drive 250, where we give an entrepreneur an opportunity at a quarter of a million dollars. So uh yeah, we're proud of both those things, and that's what I drive people to.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

Awesome. Thank you very much, Ravel. Now, if you've enjoyed today's episode and you think other people can benefit, make sure number one, you like it, please, because we enjoy likes, it helps us with the algorithm, it helps other people see our content, share it with the other people so they can benefit too. And remember to subscribe so that you don't miss future episodes because you don't want to miss another guest like Travel. Not that there's gonna be another one like him, but yeah, always subscribe. And if there's anything you want to go deeper into, you can head over to Bulker.com and get in touch. So, Travel, thank you so much. It's been amazing, you've been a great guest. Nice having you. And remember, failing to learn is learning to failure.