Business Owners & Entrepreneurs Podcast with Peter Boolkah | Business Coach | The Transition Guy®
You didn’t start a business to become its hardest-working employee.
But that’s exactly where a lot of successful business owners end up.
The business grows. The team grows. Revenue grows. The problems grow.
And somehow, instead of creating more freedom, you find yourself working harder, carrying more responsibility and becoming increasingly essential to the very business that was supposed to give you choices.
That is The Hamster Wheel Trap®.
I’m Peter Boolkah, business coach, author of Your Business Sucks: Build a Business That Works Without Destroying Your Life, and for more than 20 years I’ve worked with business owners and leadership teams around the world.
This podcast is about one thing:
Building a business that works without needing you at the centre of everything.
We talk honestly about the issues most business owners eventually run into, founder dependency, leadership, people, culture, sales, profit, cash, scaling, management, exit readiness and what it really takes to build a business that someone else would actually want to own.
Sometimes that means challenging the way you think.
Sometimes it means admitting that the thing holding the business back is you.
And sometimes it means recognising that a bigger business is not necessarily a better business.
Along the way, I sit down with entrepreneurs, authors, thinkers and leaders from around the world, including people such as Chris Voss, Mark Divine, Verne Harnish, Brad Sugars to name a few, to unpack the lessons, decisions, mistakes and experiences that shaped the way they think about business, leadership and life.
This is not a podcast about hustle.
It is not about vanity revenue.
And it is definitely not about pretending entrepreneurship is easy.
It is about building a stronger business, becoming a better owner and creating something that gives you more options not fewer.
Because eventually every business owner has to answer the same question:
Do you own the business, or does the business own you?
Business Owners & Entrepreneurs Podcast with Peter Boolkah | Business Coach | The Transition Guy®
The Future of Business: How Digital Ecosystems Disrupt Traditional Models W/ Benjamin Talin
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In today's digital age, businesses are no longer isolated islands. The rise of digital ecosystems is transforming how companies operate and compete. This episode dives deep into the world of interconnected platforms, people, and processes, explaining what digital ecosystems are and how they can unlock a new level of success.
We'll explore the key characteristics of these thriving networks, including interdependence, technology-driven collaboration, and a focus on seamless user experiences. Using real-world examples, we'll contrast the traditional business model with the collaborative power of digital ecosystems.
But the discussion doesn't stop there. We'll delve into the benefits of participating in a digital ecosystem, from increased revenue and innovation to a sharper competitive edge. We'll also address your questions, including:
How do I know if a digital ecosystem is right for my business?
What are the first steps to building a robust ecosystem?
Should I build my own ecosystem from scratch or collaborate with existing ones?
How can I leverage data to personalize experiences and uncover new opportunities?
Whether you're a small business owner or an industry leader, this episode will equip you with the knowledge to navigate the exciting world of digital ecosystems and position yourself for future success. Discover how the web of connections can be your key to business growth!
CONNECT WITH PETER BOOLKAH
Website: https://www.boolkah.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/boolkah
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pboolkah/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Boolkah
X: https://twitter.com/boolkah
ABOUT PETER BOOLKAH
Peter Boolkah is a business coach, author and speaker who has spent more than 20 years helping business owners build stronger, more valuable businesses that do not depend on them for everything.
He is the creator of The Hamster Wheel Trap® and author of Your Business Sucks: Build a Business That Works Without Destroying Your Life.
Peter works with founders and leadership teams on the issues that ultimately determine whether a business creates freedom or becomes another job: leadership, founder dependency, people, profit, execution, scaling, exit readiness and enterprise value.
His approach is direct, practical and built around one simple question:
Do you own the business, or does the business own you?
Learn more at https://www.boolkah.com
Can your business survive without being in a digital ecosystem? We're gonna find out. Hi, my name is Peter Bulka, and welcome to today's edition of the Transition Guide. Now, joining me today in the studio is Ben Taylin, who is a digital expert. Ben, thank you for joining us.
SPEAKER_01Thank you for the invitation. Happy to be here.
SPEAKER_00So, I mean, look, digital ecosystems are a big thing. And probably one of my favorites of examples of a digital ecosystem is everyone knows McDonald's, right? And look, you look at McDonald's. McDonald's typically started out as a normal go-to restaurant. It was a dry-free restaurant and a high street location based restaurant. But his business model has massively changed over the years. It's been fascinating watching McDonald's sort of enter the sphere of digital space, where actually you've got companies now like Uber ET and Delivery in the UK that now act as that sort of facilitator where a lot of the transaction is done online, and they're the people that then deliver. And I just wonder would have McDonald's had such growth had they not made that digital transformation. So my first question for you is for the re for our listenership today what is a digital ecosystem?
SPEAKER_01It's actually one of the great myths in the um in the digital world. What is the digital ecosystem? Everybody speaks about it, everybody has heard it somewhere, right? So pretty much a digital ecosystem is uh just think of the ecosystem of the earth, everything is kind of connected. Um, so we have players who are actually contributing to the core system, and we have actually so the ecosystem host, which would be the earth in our case, when we look at the global ecosystem. So somebody creates this environment where other people can thrive. Um, that is pretty much a good example for a digital ecosystem. So you create as a host, so you're the first one, you create this ecosystem, and then you allow others to create themselves part of it or create different value creations or add something to the ecosystem. So, for example, a payment provider. So uh you as an ecosystem might not be the payment provider, but you can invite others to be a payment provider for your ecosystem. Um, Amazon, for example, introduced their own payments version. That's for example a good thing. But for example, booking.com doesn't have their own payment system, so it's very different of uh how vast and how deep a digital ecosystem can go. And per se, of course, when we're speaking of digital ecosystems, it should be in a digital world. Um, but we also see, for example, Uber Eats, it's a combination between digital services and physical services and physical uh goods being delivered. So it doesn't necessarily just be like Amazon Prime or so. Um, that you say Amazon Prime, the ecosystem of content is actually just a digital delivery form, but Amazon Prime can be also this physical delivery of goods, or as you said, Ubreads is the same. So you have the control and the interaction between all these ecosystem members, usually on the digital version, or on the digital on the on the layer of digitalization, if you want to say it like that.
SPEAKER_00You do look you do a lot of futuristic work. Do you think a business will have a high chance of success if they're not part of a digital ecosystem 10 years from now?
SPEAKER_01That's a very good question. Pretty much I would say it's almost impossible to avoid digital ecosystems. No matter where you are, you will be already in touch with the digital ecosystem. I mean, just look at, for example, at advertising. Is a big or is actually many different ecosystems uh connected together, so you cannot avoid it as a business at all. So it's very different ecosystems will be part of your own journey as a business. And if yourself are not capable of creating your own ecosystem, um, you might be part or you're actually contributing to other digital ecosystems. So that is unavoidable, and it's just like every business needs to be in uh in some kind of high street at the moment, or some kind of office to work there. It's also kind of like your license to operate in the future that you're actually part of a digital ecosystem in any sort of kind. So it can be for delivery, it can be for sourcing, it can be for customer acquisition, or it can be literally that you are just creating for an ecosystem value. So, for example, there is uh ecosystem operators, for example, for Airbnb. So it's a specific operator that is just doing work and services for Airbnb's ecosystem. They don't have anything outside of that, and that can be also so you shift your whole business to actually be a digital ecosystem provider or even a contributor, or you just use it. I mean, most of us we use it, right?
SPEAKER_00No, that's a fair point. What are the key benefits of participating in a digital ecosystem?
SPEAKER_01It's depending on what you can use. So participating is also a very wide term if you say it like that. So, I mean, if you create an ecosystem, it's one of the best and one of the most powerful business models we know. And why is it powerful? Because of the data. So just imagine what powerbooking.com has, because they have pretty much all the information from what do you search, uh, where do you want to go, where have you been, what kind of hotels, what kind of uh triggers with how many people that they pretty much know your whole world. So if you know all this, you can pretty much steer somebody to actually do something, right? That's the advertising kind of thing, but you can also offer different other services, and that is what we see, for example, for Amazon. Why is the Amazon digital ecosystem so powerful? Because they can literally use movies and videos and uh music taste, even to actually categorize yourself. So you are in one of a few billion brackets, and they can literally say, like, if you listen to Taylor Swift and have seen this series and you bought this product, you are very likely that this product is happening there. And I mean, how powerful such an ecosystem can be? Amazon can even predict when somebody is pregnant before they know that they are pregnant. So they have, in the meantime, so much power to actually predict things that even the user doesn't know. And that is actually the real power of a digital ecosystem. Because if you have this information, you can, of course, upsell, you can create new products. That's why Amazon creates own products because they have all the data. They just know what is going to happen when somebody has a demand, they can create their own Amazon version of some product. Um, and they can also steer pretty much the ecosystem. And that is also what a lot of people criticize, for example, for the Amazon ecosystem. If something is good, they just internalize it. So they just take it, they take it away from the others and they just say, like, it's ours now. Wow.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that's that's I was about to say that the cynic in me means it could be used for the wrong reasons, also. They'll use it, they'll use a company for as long as it benefits them, and then if you don't control the ecosystem, it's quite easy to be shut out of it.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. And that's actually that's what I say. It always, I mean, everything in life is a double-edged sword, right? So uh you can always see the positive side and the negative side, depending on where you are on the ecosystem. That's why I said at the beginning when you said the participation. So if I create the ecosystem, I have a very different participation role in the ecosystem. Um, but for example, if you create value and it is also adding value for you, for example, LinkedIn is a very good example of an ecosystem. Slowly, it's generating its own ecosystem because they are consultants focusing only on LinkedIn consultancy, advertising agencies, and whatever. So pretty much an own ecosystem growing within a social network, and it's a social network, so per se a platform, but LinkedIn is now becoming an ecosystem. So there is tools and there is uh services around it. And if you can contribute to this network, then you can either participate in actually using it. So, for example, just reaching out, so you actually use this ecosystem to do something for yourself without even participating in the network itself. Um, so you can also contribute to the direct network. For example, you program something for LinkedIn and you say, like, hey, this is a tool that allows you to manage LinkedIn and do your CRM stuff connected with LinkedIn, so you have a direct value connection with the ecosystem, or you are literally creating then the competitor to it. So you're creating your own ecosystem and uh trying to actually get to the mode, so the advantage of this ecosystem. So that's a total different strategy.
SPEAKER_00So, how can digital ecosystems help businesses gain a competitive advantage?
SPEAKER_01Again, it's a very, very difficult uh thing because it's an ecosystem, so you have very different connection points for an ecosystem, you have very different angles, how you can use the ecosystem. So, first of all, if you're just a participant in an ecosystem, so you're at either supplying or you are demanding something out of this black box ecosystem, then you can actually be very, very good when you're one of the first movers. Um, and that is pretty much the same what you see also for social media. I mean, TikTok, when you began with TikTok at the first and was the newest social media, right? So each and every time there is something like a new ecosystem evolving, you can have a lot of exposure gain, etc., because actually the ecosystem is trying to make you more successful. So the later you are in this hype cycle, the harder it will get. For example, right now it's very hard to get followers on TikTok. Um, versus at the beginning, it was super easy to get millions of followers within some weeks and uh some days. Now it's very hard. And the same was true for Instagram, the same was true for Snapchat, etc. So it's the same with every ecosystem. Early adopters usually are the front runners because they can create, recreate, and also participate in the ecosystem, and they're one of the first ones to actually leverage it. So that is when you are supplying the no no I was gonna say okay, that's interesting.
SPEAKER_00So then okay, you've got the whole early adopter thing, and I get like with TikTok, it's becoming a lot more harder. So what are the how if I wanted to assess if a digital ecosystem is the right approach for my business, what steps do I need to take?
SPEAKER_01Pretty much always see if it's at the moment creating enough value that you put an effort in it. And I guess that's true with everything. If you never want to be a social influencer, then you will never be in a social network, right? But if you plan to be a social influencer and you say like there is a new network coming up, then it might be a viable strategy to say, like, I want to be one of the first ones to actually participate in. So if your business is pretty much totally unreliant on anything that is like code calling, and you just have like five different suppliers and you just say, like, okay, I know them by hand, then it doesn't make sense to build a huge uh ecosystem around it for managing five suppliers, right? Um, but if you are heavily dependent on external forces and you see that these external forces, no matter if it's suppliers, if it's demand, your customers, whatever, if they are in a system that is fragmented. And let's look again at this booking.com example. I cannot know every hotel in the world, and I don't want to contact every hotel in the world, and no hotel in the world can contact everybody who is interested in actually having maybe a room. Um, so this is a perfect example where you see this will be happening, that somebody will offer a solution for a many-to-many solution to actually make it easier. And if it's booking.com at the beginning, nobody knows because who knows if it's booking or expedia or whatever. Um, so that is also one of the critical things. Sometimes you just also need to be lucky, but you can actually offset luck with trial and error. So if you know that, for example, the booking industry will be different, okay, then I need a lot of guests for my hotel. So I will be on different platforms. So I need to diversify my digital ecosystem strategy. It's the same as with social media ads. At the beginning, nobody knew what is going on. Right now you have three different ad networks, which are pretty much delivering 80% of the value, right? So now it's easier. But 20 years ago, it was not so easy to actually find the right ad network strategy and you needed to contact hundreds of different websites. So I guess for businesses, it's rather also a strategic decision to see how exposed am I to a many-to-many relationship? The smaller your N number is, so the number of contact points to the external world, the easier it is for you. But most companies don't have just five different customers and five different suppliers. Um, so for a lot of companies, this will create this demand for digital ecosystems and participate in the digital ecosystems. Because, as I said, right now, if you open up a web shop, you are actually trading pretty much like a small digital ecosystem because you have PayPal, you have uh pioneer, whatever, you have so many payment providers coming in suddenly and you need to integrate them. Then you maybe have also your suppliers connected to your web shop. Um, suddenly you're starting literally a small digital ecosystem. I mean, it's not per se a digital ecosystem, but you can view it as many people need to contribute that this web shop of yours is actually working. Um, and if you think forwards, you are always participating in one, so make the most out of it.
SPEAKER_00So, Ben. Businesses out there. What are the initial steps for building a robust digital ecosystem?
SPEAKER_01Let me put it in two things. So digital marketplaces are already hard because you always have this hard side. So one side is always harder to get in, right? So either it's the the people who want to sell something or the people who want to find something. Um, it always depends for a marketplace. So you have something to offer and somebody who buys it, right? That's typical two-sided marketplace. One-sided marketplace is easy. If I have my product, I just need to sell it to somebody and need to find somebody who is interested to buy my stuff. Two-sided platforms, suddenly, uh, a little more complicated. Somebody needs to buy something and somebody needs to offer something. And usually, if nobody offers, nobody buys, and if nobody buys, nobody offers. So you have this chicken and hen problem. With the digital ecosystem, it gets exponentially more difficult because you never know actually what are the hard sides. Yes, focus on the hard side. So if you want to actually build something like that, figure out what what is your hardest side. So what's what is pretty much delivering value, and maybe you can even create a digital ecosystem with a one-sided platform. So you start actually offering something that attracts people, and this attraction of one side will lead that you can offer other services on the other side. But this is pretty much also boiling down. So if you want to create a digital ecosystem, always focus on where I can get the same value into the ecosystem or similar value to the ecosystem that I can attract more people. Because, for example, if I sell shoes and I get a huge following for shoes, it will be very hard to upsell then people on uh business tools. Because if somebody is interested for shoes, why should you then offer me fucking business services, right? So um, and that is usually the problem. I mean, that is an extreme example, but if you have this uh cognitive disconnect in an ecosystem that people are getting to you for something and they are not delivering it, and you see that, for example, for banks, it was a very good example with banks. People go to the bank because they want to have their money managed, they don't want to be upsold on some car insurances, they don't want to be upsold on any of that, because most people, when they actually were signing up, they said, like, manage my money and don't do anything with it. Um, so they were not like, Yay, they open up a digital ecosystem and they offer now insurance services. Um, because people said, like, I go to the insurance company for that, I don't go to my bank. So, this can be also, even though it's financial industry, so it would be the same industry classification, people had a cognitive disconnect, and that's why most banking ecosystems actually failed. Um, so it's also about expectation management in a very big way. That's why I said it's an extreme example with the shoes and the business services. Um, but for somebody who wants banking services and is then being offered insurance services, it's the same. They don't want to have the shoe and the financial service. So try to actually set it right. And for example, there are challenger banks out there. They created digital ecosystems with a different promise, with a different value proposition. Kind of like we manage all the boring stuff in your life. So we manage your bank account, your insurances, etc. That was a different value proposition. Then I can say, like, ah, yeah, sure, manage my boring stuff. I don't want to handle my contracts, I don't want to handle my insurances, I don't want to handle that. I come to you for managing boring stuff. And yeah, banking is boring stuff. The only person who doesn't like to say that it's boring stuff is the bank. Um, but if you completely rethink the whole thing and you just understand the custom and say, like, hey, let us manage all the boring things. You don't want to do bank statements, okay. You don't want to do insurance, we're gonna cover you. Every time there is a better insurance, we're gonna cover you. So we pretty much take off this pain, and that is a good digital ecosystem, then in the end, because it delivers a direct value.
SPEAKER_00And something like in the UK, compare the market.com or money, yeah, money saving expert, they kind of satisfy that purpose. Exactly. Um question for you on that. Knowing most entrepreneurs, they are creators, they like to start things from scratch, you know what they're like, and there are so many ecosystems out there building versus joining. Should they boot your own ecosystem from scratch or collaborate with existing ones? I mean, more factors really should guide that decision-making process.
SPEAKER_01What I see, a lot of people create ecosystems out of a product idea. Um, so the biggest problem is that most of the time that's like the banks, that's the exactly the exact same problem. So I have an offering, I just want to build an ecosystem around my offering. Um, I actually don't care what the customer wants in the end. If you find an ecosystem that can actually satisfy not just your needs to sell something, but also the need of the customer you have in mind, and maybe the higher need of this customer, like uh manage my boarding stuff, um, then you can say like that maybe make sense. But if you don't know that this ecosystem is actually fulfilling this purpose, um, then it's always a red flag that this ecosystem is not working. Just look at all these ecosystems of consultants, right? So there are thousands of platforms out there where you can find consultants. Um, it's pretty easy to find a platform for that and ecosystems uh being built around that um because consultants want to sell consultancy. The problem is not that somebody wants to buy consultancy, the problem is that nobody trusts if you buy consultancy. Nobody actually cares for the directory of consultancies. I wouldn't care about the directory of consultancies. Only the consultants care about listed being listed in the consultancy directory because they Hope that they sell, and that's the problem with the two sides. So the consultant directories are built around consultants because consultants need to pay for it. That's why they build it in a consultant mindset, and they can never actually attract the real users. And that's why most of these networks are not working, and LinkedIn is pretty much way better for that. So, why is that? Because actually, the real purpose is not being met. And that's the same example with the banking. So I'm a bank, I can sell you banking services, and the rest is okay around.
SPEAKER_00Um, so you've got to be quite careful if you want to create your own ecosystem. And actually, sometimes you've got to look at whether you can create the right ecosystem to satisfy the needs of the customer, or whether there's existing ecosystems out there that already do that, and you just become part of that ecosystem.
SPEAKER_01And sometimes you can also just create your own and participate in others or find even connections. So there is many examples where actually ecosystems screw together and they brought the communities together because it happens often that ecosystems grow from different standpoints. So, for example, I've seen that for the consultancy ecosystem, um, there was one bigger startup in Germany actually doing pretty much the demand side thing. So, we're gonna help you choose the best consultancy, etc. Um, that was pretty much the demand side thing, and they connected together with the consultancy part where who said, like, we have a directory of consultancies. Um, so you can create both types, and I guess that's the nice thing about ecosystems. Um, as long as you have a growing user base and a growing understanding of what they need, you can always connect it in a way that you say, like, hey, okay, there is value here, there is value there, let's combine it and maybe like the German deal, make a joint venture out of that and make a 50-50 deal. Um, because usually if the cake is bitter, everybody gets more, right? But that's also hard sometimes because people always laugh their own ideas. That's what you said. Entrepreneurs are creators, so we laugh to create on our own. Um, ecosystems always also grow on the back of each other, let's put it this way. Because creating strategic modes is actually hard. And if you have maybe two or three strategic modes you can combine, it can become very powerful.
SPEAKER_00So, what's your advice to businesses? Because obviously, we're saying here the trend's gonna be as the years go on, we are gonna be more and more entrenched into a digital ecosystem. How can businesses best prepare for this?
SPEAKER_01I guess that pretty much comes down to every trend. I'm sorry to say it, but it's pretty much like it's just basic work. Uh, there is no fancy fancy solution to that. Um I always say, and uh, when I have been in consulting, I had this magic number. I even created an own model around that. It's SET model, the survive expansions form. Uh, why do I love this model? Because it was so easy for every entrepreneur to understand. Because it's actually you have three different topics in your company. One is to survive, you need to keep the lights on, you need to pay the rent and the salaries and whatever. So that's the survive part, the daily business. Then you need to think about I have something good because otherwise you wouldn't be selling, right? So I have something good. How can I expand it? Different markets, different products, improvement, etc. There. Um, and I guess the last part that most people are missing and most companies are not investing in is this transform part. How can I actually think outside the box? How can I do something completely new? Um, Google has the 60 2020 rule internally. Everybody knows this free Friday, right? Um, but Google has a 60-2020 rule. So 60% of your time and money and resources are spent on keeping Google running. 20% is about we do things great, so how can we expand it, improve it, etc. And 20% is actually, and that's why this Friday off is uh coming. Do whatever you want. That is actually something that could be in the future good, or could be in the future maybe an own startup or whatever. So you are completely free to do something. And I guess this is the part where businesses need to combine some parts of this expand because there are existing ecosystems where you should join and where you should do something. But this transform is actually about trying out can I actually create maybe a single-sided marketplace or a two-sided marketplace? Can I actually do something there? Can I actually try a newer version here? Can I actually join another ecosystem? Can I actually provide some value to other people in other ecosystems, in other platforms? So I guess this is the constant trying to be early adopter. Uh that's what I told you at the beginning. If you're early adopter in an ecosystem, you have exponentially more outcome than if you're a late adopter. And that's the same, for example, for Amazon. If you were one of the first Amazon sellers, you have tons of opportunities. Now it's hard to become Amazon seller. So if you were at the beginning just a small seller and you started small, you could have gained over proportionally more parts of this Amazon ecosystem and gained more from that. So just investing a little time and a little effort and a little maybe money. And it doesn't even need to be money, but just a little thought could be.
SPEAKER_00And there will be times when money is important as well, especially if you have the expertise yourself and you need to bring the expertise on board. Well, Ben, thank you so much. There is so much here we've covered. Probably going to be overwhelmed for so many people. But I think what I take from our conversation today is especially what you said at the end if people want to survive and thrive, then they're going to have to embrace the digital change. Because without it, I can see companies being left behind, especially with the younger generations coming on the board. The customer of tomorrow is already digitally centric and digitally. They're very much digitally sort of what's the word I'd look for. They're linguistic and digital, so they understand the language of digital. It's ideal for them.
SPEAKER_01It just becomes normal. It's every generation at the moment. So we see it's pretty much in every different uh group of generations, or whatever you want to call it, some some um some groupings we have there. So in the end, what happened is everybody is using digital in any way. So everybody has some phone, everybody is looking at Google reviews, everybody's going to Google for information. Even my mother does it, and she is always a good uh uh good pinpointing and North Star when it comes to um how do people use it who don't know technology. Um, but uh that is pretty much it's just become normal, but it's still fascinating that people think like digitation in businesses is not so important uh when it's right now not important. Everybody does it and it's just normal.
SPEAKER_00And if they don't, maybe many of these businesses will not survive the next 10 years. If anything's resonated with you today and you want a bit more information, head over to BOCA.com and get in touch. Ben, thank you so much. It's been awesome having you on today's episode. And remember, failing to learn is learning to fail. Please stay safe. Thank you, Ben.
SPEAKER_01Thank you very much also for inviting me.