#287 Your Gut Is Running Your Menopause — And Nobody Told You

 Guest: Cynthia Thurlow, NP — Author of The Menopause Gut | 2x TEDx Speaker 

In this episode:

• How a Morocco trip landed Cynthia in the hospital for 13 days — and what God showed her there
• Why your gut is the key longevity organ you've never heard of
• The gut-brain, gut-bone, and gut-ovarian axes — how it's all connected
• Why "I go to the bathroom every day" doesn't mean your gut is healthy
• Why digestion starts in the brain — not your stomach
• How stress spikes your blood sugar more than food does
• Skin rashes, brain fog, and psoriasis as gut signals — not separate problems
• Short chain fatty acids, sodium butyrate, and rebuilding the microbiome
• Why postmenopausal women need to stop thinking about their hormones in silos
• Cynthia's non-negotiables: sleep, boundaries, fiber, HRT, and no alcohol

Resources: Free Midlife Gut Guide → http://themenopausegut.com/midlife-gut-guide?am_id=tabatha7584 

The Menopause Gut Book → https://themenopausegut.com/?am_id=tabatha3589

 All-In-One Microbiome Lift → shop.fasttofaith.com/product/gut-lift/ Use code PODCAST for 20% off

"I will restore your health and heal your wounds, declares the Lord." — Jeremiah 30:17

00:00 — So many women have lost hope — give them some right now 00:58 — Welcome back: spring break, nature, and God's goodness 02:38 — Introducing Cynthia Thurlow: author, 2x TEDx speaker 04:11 — Pain to purpose: the theme of Fast to Faith guests 05:35 — Why women still don't know this information 06:36 — Cynthia's personal journey: how it all started 07:34 — Morocco, food poisoning, and 13 days in the hospital 12:54 — God is doing good works — are you getting on board? 15:35 — Giving women permission to advocate for themselves 15:45 — Omega Lift: why omega-3s matter more than ever 18:30 — How Cynthia healed: 9 months carnivore, 18 months to vegetables 22:04 — Why you can't eat fiber when your microbiome is decimated 23:19 — Carnivore as therapeutic — not forever 24:00 — Digestion is a north-to-south process — it starts in the brain 29:19 — Sodium butyrate and rebuilding the microbiome 30:51 — Gut health affects serotonin, GABA, and dopamine 31:52 — Your gut health determines your longevity 35:39 — Genesis, the microbiome, and how God designed us 36:39 — Skin rashes and psoriasis as gut signals 38:34 — Healthy Her: catching the signals before they become crises 39:35 — Healing takes years — not weeks 40:21 — Blood sugar, cortisol, and the CGM lesson 42:05 — It took time to learn these boundaries 42:19 — Cynthia's non-negotiables: sleep, stress, fiber, HRT, no alcohol 47:41 

Join Me October 10th is Apex North Carolina: ftf.fasttofaith.com/freedomtofrustration

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Fast to Faith is hosted by Dr. Tabatha Barber — OB/GYN, functional medicine physician, and founder of the Fast to Faith Sisterhood and Coaching Academy.

Transcript

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Hope For Women Who Feel Stuck

Dr. Tabatha 1:24

So many women have lost hope and they've been struggling with their gut issues or their hormone issues for so long that they just mentally feel defeated. And so it's like, I don't even want to read another book because it's not gonna work for me. So give them some hope right now. If you're tired of doing all the right things and still feeling exhausted, stuck in your body, and disconnected from God, this podcast is for you. I'm Dr. Tabitha, a triple board certified functional medicine physician, and I help women stop fighting their bodies and start healing them God's way. Let's get into it. Welcome back to the Fast of Faith podcast. Oh my goodness. What an amazing break we just had.

Ashlee 2:22

Yeah, so refreshed.

Dr. Tabatha 2:23

Are you feeling refreshed? I really am.

Ashlee 2:25

We did a lot of driving. I did a lot of driving, but I think we planned it perfectly so that we could have some time at home. And yeah, I really do feel refreshed. It was weird that we both went back to work yesterday, my husband and I, and we both felt really good.

Dr. Tabatha 2:37

So I think it's because we were out in nature. You were out in like the northern states, I was out west, but we were like seeing the national parks and hiking with our children for spring break. And there's just something about getting back to God's land, you know.

Ashlee 2:53

You had the sunshine, I had more snow, which was fine. But I will say that I'm sure you felt the same way. There were so many times that we all said, like, God is just so good, like there's so much to see and so much land, and you're just like, He created this.

Dr. Tabatha 3:10

Yeah, it's really it's mind-boggling. Like my jaw was on the floor half the trip, like, wow, God, you're you're incredible. I know.

Ashlee 3:18

And your Grand

Nature Travel And Spiritual Reset

Ashlee 3:19

Canyon story that you shared yesterday on the sisterhood, like it is it's just incredible. So yeah, you're probably right. I know we saw we had a hot tub at our Airbnb, and we sat in that so many nights and just like looked up at the stars. And my son was like, You can see the stars. Like, yeah, because there's no pollution and they were not in our crazy neighborhood. So yeah, it was cool.

Dr. Tabatha 3:39

Yay! Well, I love that. We need to do more of that.

Ashlee 3:43

Yeah, and we successfully both went away at the same week. So I feel, yeah, yeah, God is really good and He's worked really hard. Like, we've worked really hard behind the scenes with our business. We have an amazing team, like, huge shout out to them on this episode. So, yes, thank you to all those people who held everything up so that we could be with our families.

Dr. Tabatha 4:01

Yeah, amen. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited for our guests today.

Ashlee 4:05

I know me too. When I was reading her book, I was like, oh my gosh, this is what we talk about. This is what we talk about.

Dr. Tabatha 4:09

So and you know, we're talking about traveling, and she is on a tour for her book right now, traveling like a mad woman, because she has a really important message to get out to the world. And, you know, I've known her for years now, and probably four years ago, she was like, I want to reach a million women. And I was like, Let's go. And she's done it, she's reached like 10 million, 15 million women. So I am just so honored to have her here, and she is an incredible woman. So if you don't have time to listen to this entire episode, make sure you pause it and come back. Like, this is gonna be a game changer for you. I know we talk about this a lot of the times, but she's gonna be connecting some dots with our hormones, our gut, our immune system, and how it

Meet Cynthia And The Big Connections

Dr. Tabatha 5:05

all plays together to really make us who we are and the experiences we're having. And things like travel can throw all that off.

Ashlee 5:15

So you need to airplane travel.

Dr. Tabatha 5:17

Yes, you need to have actionable steps that you can take and things that you can do. So welcome, Cynthia.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

Oh, thank you so much. I've been so looking forward to connecting with you both on the podcast and the best way to start my Tuesday morning.

Dr. Tabatha 5:35

Oh, yay, I love it. Yeah, and it's a busy morning, so we're gonna get right to it. But I do want to sing your praises because it is no small feat what you have accomplished in you know, such a short period of time. And I want to get into your story because it's all part of your mission. And hello everyone listening. There's a theme to our guests pain to purpose. Like we bring you the people who have been through the trenches, who've been down in the pit, and they have climbed out and they have turned it around to help other people. I believe that's why we are here on this earth. We are here to do God's work, and Cynthia is no joke. So she is a two-time TEDx speaker, author of the new book, The Menopause Gut Balance Your Microbiome to Reclaim Your Health in Midlife and Beyond. But ladies, like Cynthia has reached millions of people with her TEDx talks, especially on intermittent fasting. That's where we first connected. And you are just out there spreading your message. So you mentioned you're on this crazy book tour, you're doing like five podcast interviews every day. And yet there are still people who don't know this information, right?

SPEAKER_02 6:58

It's so interesting to me because I think because we work in this integrative medicine space, like it's what we live, eat, and breathe on a daily basis. But the average woman that's out there is not aware of some of the complex and relationships between lifestyle and how that impacts our health. I think we still think in many ways of medicine as being very siloed, like you're a gynecologist, and therefore it doesn't matter what's going on with your heart or your lungs or your brain, but yet we know that it's all interrelated. And I think the sooner that we are able to make those connections, the more sense it makes. Like, you know, we are connected spiritually, emotionally, physically, and our bodies are constantly interpreting what we are exposed to, whether it's what we use in personal care products, whether or not it's our relationships, whether it's travel. Um our bodies respond accordingly, even if we are not cognizant of the information that it's receiving at a cellular level.

Dr. Tabatha 7:59

Yeah, absolutely. And I love how you open your book with your personal journey of like how your microbiome, your gut health just went um spiraled down with traveling. Um, but what I want to hear more about is like what you were going through mentally and emotionally during that time. Because, ladies, go get the book. It it's an amazing resource of information and learning what's happening to the microbiome and things and your immune system. But like I want to hear from you because so many women have lost hope and they've been struggling with their gut issues or their hormone issues for so long that they just mentally feel defeated. And so it's like, I don't even want to read another book because it's not gonna work for me. So give them some hope right now.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

Yeah, so I kind of start the book off just to give context about this romantic 15th anniversary

Food Poisoning To Hospital And Purpose

SPEAKER_02 9:03

trip that I took with my husband to Morocco and how we ate the same food and experienced the same things, and yet one of us got the worst food poisoning of her life, which kind of set into motion because I was in perimenopause the right series of events to land me in the hospital for 13 days. And as a clinician, there's nothing more humbling than being a patient. You know too much. I the hospital that I was hospitalized at was a hospital that I had rounded at. I had been part of a very large cardiology practice for um, gosh, almost 20 years. And the awareness that I was number one, I was as sick as I was, because I recall saying to my husband, and as a physician, you'll understand, when a patient tells you that if they don't figure out what's going on with you, you know you're going to die. I had this impending sense of doom. And my husband, who's not a medical person, was like, I don't know what to do with that information. Um, and so I was in the emergency room and they didn't take me very seriously because my blood pressure didn't look that bad, my pulse didn't look that bad. But as soon as they drew labs, they knew that I was very acutely sick. You know, I went for a CAT scan. It led to this long hospitalization. And I just recall on day three being despondent and depressed. And by day five, they actually had to start Ivy nutrition because I'd lost so much weight, my muscles were literally being catabolized and broken down. And there was this overwhelming sense of a sense of spirit, God visiting me, giving me this option and saying, you have two options. I can either end your suffering or I'm gonna let you live. And I remember thinking at the time that I'm trying not to get emotional, but you know, at the time my kids were seven years younger than they are now. So I had a 13-year-old and an 11-year-old. And it was so clear to me that like living was the only option. But I had never felt such a strong connection to God. And in that moment, I was like, I'm going to fight. And so I'm going to fight and I'm going to ensure I get out of this hospital bed. And I had a series of complications. In fact, the surgeon, after I had my appendix out six weeks after this hospitalization, she actually said to me, if you had been any other patient, you would have died. Like literally said there was you would have died. And so it really left me with this tremendous responsibility that if I was going to continue living, then I was never going to be, I was never going to think small. If I was going to have any intentions, setting intentions, and of course, 27 days after I was hospitalized, I went on to do a talk that, of course, changed the trajectory of my life, my family's life, obviously, millions of people that watched that talk. And I just think that there are zero coincidences. I have never felt more despondent than I was during that hospitalization because I felt like if I had no idea that my health was changing in response to declining hormones, how can I expect my patients to know? But it also left me with incredible hope that God does have a plan that sometimes it's not entirely clear in the moment. But certainly for myself, I left feeling like there was a Cynthia before that hospitalization in March, February, March of 2019, and there was the Cynthia after. And so I think for a lot of people, it's it's comforting, probably validating to know that people go through these life-changing experiences where you're really being asked to dig deep emotionally, spiritually, philosophically, and try to make sense of what you're going through. And I think that it was such a profound experience that I it took me a long time to even talk about it. I mean, it's now seven years later. Yeah. And interestingly enough, Tabitha, I've had several female podcast hosts who have like started to help me unwind and have this deeper conversation. Because for a lot of people, they don't want to go there. It's like, it's scary. I don't want to talk about that. Someone suffered emotionally, et cetera. But yet I know that that is part of God's plan. Like, yes, I went to Morocco. Yes, I got food poisoning. Yes, that was unpleasant. And then several months later, having this lengthy hospitalization with the awareness that God puts these opportunities in front of us to, you know, to see what, to see what comes out of it, but also what an incredible lesson. Like an unlesson for myself on resilience, a lesson for my family on perseverance, um, and just realizing that there's so much more to us than we may even realize. Like I would never have believed if you had said to me the day before I got sick and ended up hospitalized, you're gonna go on this amazing journey. And what comes out of this amazing journey is that you are going to step into a different awareness, a different person, a different sense of self. And so I always say there was the Cynthia before February 17th, 2019, and there was the Cynthia after. And so I don't even think I recognize that person from before because there's been so much growth, not just emotionally, but also spiritually.

Dr. Tabatha 14:18

I feel that so deeply. Oh my goodness. That has literally been our theme this year at the Fast of Faith Podcast is God is doing good works in us. And are we accepting it and getting on board and saying, Okay, what do you got for me? Or are you like just going in the fetal position and crawling in your hole and dying? Like, I feel like you have such a choice. I love the word opportunity. I'm so glad you said that because it really is. God is not trying to remove your circumstances or prevent you from experience anything challenging. He is trying to mold you into a better version of yourself. And for you to go and bless other people with that new version, that better version of Cynthia. It just gives me goosebumps. It is it is literally why we are here. So bravo to you. I'm I'm so excited for everything that you have gone through. Um I I say that with so much love because you're helping so many people, and I know it was painful. And I I hope whoever's listening to this right now who just got a diagnosis of cancer or you know, told they have to have half their colon removed, which you talk about in the book, or anything. Just it feels traumatic, it feels like it's unfair and life is coming against you. No, this is like your opportunity to really redefine why you're here and what you're doing with your life. And menopause is the perfect time for that. You know, I love what you call it, middle pause. It's like there is a previous version of us raising the children, just collecting the paycheck, going through the motions, surviving. But now we're stepping into this space of like, wait a second, God's got bigger plans for me. Like that part is all done. Now what? And what we keep seeing is women are stuck because they're dealing with their gut issues or their nervous system issues, all the things, and they're so focused on that that they're not stepping into what God has next for them. So I hope women listening right now are seeing this as an opportunity to say, okay, let me figure this physical stuff out so I can go out and fulfill my assignment, right?

Ashlee 16:58

Yeah, it's giving you, it's we're giving women permission right now to advocate for themselves and to be the best version of themselves and let the past go.

Dr. Tabatha 17:09

Real quick, I just want to interrupt this conversation for something super important. Even though we need to take care of ourselves spiritually, emotionally, and physically, we do have to take care of ourselves at a cellular level. And that is why I have my Fast to Face supplement line. So let's just take a minute to hear about something that might be the game changer that you need in this season. We didn't talk in detail about the difference in omega-3s versus omega 6s when we talked about omega lift, and it's so important because the standard American diet, one of the worst aspects of it is the high levels of omega-6s.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Like that's what's destroying our cells, right? 100%. You know, oftentimes we don't really have a choice. I mean, if you look at your labels, if you if you go out to eat like the average human being, you are going to have omega-6s. Omega-6s and omega-3s are called essential fatty acids, which the name implies, they're essential for the functioning of your body, mostly stored on your fat, um, but they're very essential for the functioning of your body. Both of them are, but however, in a one-to-one ratio, meaning you don't need a whole lot of omega-6s. Now, omega-3s are phenomenal. Omega-6s, though, in too much, like you could have a ton of omega-3s, and you're it's it's omega-6s though, if you have too much of that particular omega, it turns into inflammation. So you do not want to have too much omega-6s.

Dr. Tabatha 18:46

Before the food industry really existed, you could get away with eating salmon once or twice a week because you were not getting omega-6s in your diet. But now we we're getting them everywhere we turn. We're getting them in their coffee drinks in the morning, we're getting them in our, you know, everything. That's why potato chips are bad for you, not because of the potatoes or the salt, because they're soaked in omega-6 seed oils. And so we're just combating this. And that is why we need omega-3s in such high levels. I can't even tell you how different I feel when I add in Omega Lift because I do tend to consume a lot of omega-6s just with traveling and having two teenage kids, so we're never eating dinner at the same time, or we're always grabbing and on the go. And so I have to combat that. I have to counteract it. How did you even heal yourself? Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

It took time. I mean, I'll be honest with you. Uh, you know, after six weeks of antibiotics, antifungals, and then uh a pretty interesting surgery, you know, your appendix should be a pretty routine surgery, but of course mine wasn't, uh, given all the other constellation of complications that I had. And I reminded myself, I mean, it took nine months to be able to eat something other than meat. I was full carnivore because my gut microbiome was ravaged. Like the antibiotics that saved my life, clearly, um, had, you know, altered the gut microbiome so profoundly that the only thing I could tolerate was stewed meat. And that might sound fun in the short term, but it wasn't in the long term. And then slowly, you know, it took over another like 18 months to get to a point where I could eat vegetables, cooked vegetables, and even eating a little bit of fruit. So, I mean, it completely changed the way that I ate. It changed the way that I lived my life because all

Rebuilding After Antibiotics And Carnivore

SPEAKER_02 20:51

of a sudden I realized that I had to be more intentional about sleep. I had to be even more intentional about stress management. Because you can imagine being in a hospital, um, the amount of stress that your body is under, I mean, it takes, it's like, it's like a ripple across a pond. You feel like it's just, oh, it's just the ripple, the initial ripple, but it's the realization that it's gonna take years. Like I honestly believe that my gut microbiome will probably be in the seven to 10 year mark in order to be able to recalibrate in a way that I'm able to tolerate certain types of foods. Like I just had a colonoscopy in December because I get them every five years. So we have a really bad family history of colorectal cancer. And so we had the 2020 colonoscopy to compare to the 2025. I had a new gastroenterologist, I'm in a new city. And he said to me, you know, I was looking at your old, your old scan, and I'm looking at this one, and he said, What are you doing differently? And he said, You have no inflammation, no internal or external hemorrhoids like you did on the other. Um, what are you doing differently? And I said, I radically increased my fiber intake. And so he was like, I wish all of my patients' colonoscopies look like yours. It's like perfect, pristine. This is what I hope for all of my patients. And so it just validated that all these little changes that I was making little by little because my microbiome was desperately trying to acclimate to an environment where it had been decimated. Um, you know, cumulatively, the things that I have learned over time have really been beneficial. And I think for a lot of individuals, you know, you have one round of an appropriately dosed antibiotic, or you go through a divorce, or you lose your job, or you have some other, you know, a child that gets sick, or a parent or loved one, um, we have these sentinel events in our lives that can shift the microbiome in really profound and significant ways. And so I always remind people there's always things we can do. Uh, the microbiome is incredibly malleable, but it does take time. And I think for everyone, it's understanding that as our hormones are declining, as our neurotransmitters are changing, you know, these opportunistic, whether it's an opportunistic infection, vis-a-vis picking up giardia in Morocco, or it's these other kind of sentinel events that people have. Like, as Sean Stevenson says, life is lifing. Like as we are going through life, things are happening. That is part of life. Some things we have control over, others we do not, but how we respond and how we show up is. Is our choice, truly our choice.

Dr. Tabatha 23:27

Oh my gosh. I love that you mentioned that you were carnivore for a while because we put our clients and patients on that when they have no beneficial bacteria and they're like, what's going on? Why are we being extreme like this? So I would love for you to talk a little bit more about the fact that we cannot digest all that fibrous plant stuff when we don't have the right microbiome or you know, the kimchi and the sauerkraut and all the stuff. Those fermented foods, they just like blow up in your stomach like a mad woman. Quickly before we do that, I want to mention you mentioned fiber, and we need to get to that point. So, all-in-one microbiome lift is one of my favorite fiber supplements that we have because it has like glucomanin and arabenolactan and chia seeds and flax seed. And I want every woman to be able to tolerate that. But sometimes when you take a supplement like that, it it makes you feel worse. So, what is going on? Why did you have to do carnivore and how do we get the fiber back in?

SPEAKER_02 24:42

Well, I think first and foremost, you know, we're thinking about carnivore from a therapeutic perspective. I think you and I would both agree we're not doing carnivore for the rest of our lives. We're just using it temporarily as a stopgap while we are helping to reduce inflammation, while we are building back the microbiome. So I think that a lot of women, when they say to me, I don't tolerate any fiber, and I'll usually say it's probably a reflection, it's a mirror of what's going on at the microbiome

Fiber Intolerance And Digestion Basics

SPEAKER_02 25:11

level. I think that sometimes it is uh multifactorial. So there can be multiple reasons why this is happening. It could be the decline in hormones, it could be that you don't have sufficient short chain fatty acids, and I'm sure we'll probably talk about these important signaling molecules. But for a lot of these women, it's helping them understand there is a bioindividual component, but when you don't tolerate any fiber, sometimes it's the amount of fiber. Like I have a patient who loves Brussels sprouts, and I think Brussels sprouts are wonderful. But when you have someone that is a little more fiber sensitive, eating three cups of Brussels sprouts is not going to help your microbiome because the microbes are struggling to be able to effectively, you know, break break this down properly. And instead, what they're doing is they're producing more and more gas and bloating. So it's really the tincture of the right amount of fiber in the right amount. So sometimes it's starting with maybe you are soaking some beans and you're adding a tablespoon of beans to a meal. It may be that nuanced when we are thinking about what or cooking all of your vegetables, not so that they're mushy, like I grew up in the South or my grandmother, my southern grandmother overcooked all of our vegetables, who I loved dearly, but that was just like the South Carolinian way. She would overcook everything, all of all of her vegetables. Then they're depleted of nutrients. But what we're talking about, we we kind of work through an algorithm of what are the most easily digestible sources of fiber. And so cooked vegetables, fresh ground flax, and cheese seeds are a relatively easy one. And just being mindful of portions because over time, it takes time. It's almost like when your microbiome is decimated, either due to, you know, my example of six weeks of antibiotics, but even a round of antibiotics can alter the microbiome enough that it can make it harder to uh be able to eat some of those foods. But we're really speaking to, you know, when we think about digestion as a north to south process. Number one, how many women are eating on the go? They're stressed, they're eating off their kids' plates, they're eating in the car. I used to eat standing up and dictating. So you can imagine there was no real optimal digestion going on. But digestion starts in the brain. And really think about thinking about it from that perspective. We need to literally be on the right side of our autonomic nervous system, which is the parasympathetic rest and repose. But most of us are, and this is why my family always said grace. Like that was part of what we did before dinner. We would all sit down, we would take, you know, you know, a couple deep breaths, say grace, and then eat. But for a lot of women, busy women, entrepreneurial women, any woman, we're eating in our car, we're eating standing up, we're eating off our kids' plates. And so we're literally not optimizing our digestion from that perspective, which means we're not gonna break down our protein in our stomach. Um, there won't be enough ability to break it down into amino acids. It means in the small intestine, you're probably not gonna be able to absorb and assimilate nutrients the way that you optimally should. It may even, if you're chronically stressed, lead to leaky gut where you're leaking food particles into your bloodstream and triggering an immune response. And for a lot of women in perimenopause and menopause, this is a huge problem. Certainly was for me. You're not able to detoxify properly and forget about it by the time everything gets to the large intestine or colon, those microbes are not going to be in an optimal state to be able to, you know, break down fiber and ferment it and create short chain fatty acids. So, or let alone being able to properly poop. Um, one thing I've learned during this book tour is that no one wants to hear the word defecate. It's too clinical. So let's just break it down and make it as accessible as possible. But I think when we're talking about at a very elemental, fundamental level, women don't fully understand that that stress, being in a stress state, is not going to optimize digestion. It's not going to optimize detoxification, it's certainly not going to optimize bowel habits. And so all of these things will contribute to alterations in the microbiome. Like our microbes, there's 40 trillion bacteria, viruses, fungi, and protozoa. They are dynamic. They respond to just about every every um input that you can imagine, whether we're getting enough sleep, whether you're running through the airport to make a flight, whether you just yelled at your spouse, whether you're eating ultra-processed foods or nutrient-dense foods, whether you're over-exercising, the microbiome adjusts and shift accordingly. So I think at a very fundamental level, it's helping women understand that we have to prime our bodies for the acceptance of food. And when we're dealing with elimination diets, if we already have someone that has a compromised digestive system, it's like we have to be even more conscientious. And I think it's really hard to unlearn bad habits. Like I jokingly say, bad habits we learn in our teens, 20s, and 30s that maybe allow us to be incredibly successful people in our career, personally, professionally, can become maladaptive in midlife. And so a lot of the pause when we're talking about perimenopause, middle pause, menopause is really determining like, is our lifestyle working for our physiology? Like that litmus test, and it really is a litmus test of like, is this working for my physiology? Because I know for myself, there were a lot of things I had to change 10 years ago. Like I can laugh about it now, but it was actually quite challenging at the time. And there weren't resources like your podcast, mine, or others 10 years ago that just wasn't enough. Focus on middle-aged women.

Dr. Tabatha 30:42

Yeah, absolutely. I you should not eat the way you did in your 20s, 30s, or even 40s. I mean, I can't even believe the way I used to eat. It would destroy me now. So you mentioned short chain fatty acids and how the bacteria produces these and it also feeds them and helps them break down our foods. Do you like to use things like sodium butyrate as a supplementation when you're trying to heal the gut and re-establish the microbiome?

SPEAKER_02 31:15

I do like sodium butyrate. I mean, I think that there's a I kind of think about this digestive fire component. You know, does someone need hydrochloric acid to help break down their protein? Would they benefit from digestive enzymes? Do they need things like Tudka? Because we know as estrogen's declining, that we don't break down and emulsify fats quite as effectively. And so I always look at it from the lens of like where do they need the most support? And generally they need both digestive support. And then while we're rebuilding the microbiome, like I have a significant, my husband, in fact, um was on six months of antibiotics, appropriately prescribed. Um, but we have been using a lot of sodium butyrate uh in an effort to you know help with that. And that's one of those specialized short chain fatty acids that can actually cross the blood-brain barrier, which a lot of people sometimes forget that you know, these signaling molecules do more than just one thing, they do a lot of different things in the body. But yes, definitely one of my you know, kind of short list of supplements that I think is really beneficial.

Dr. Tabatha 32:15

Yeah, you mentioned when you were hospitalized, you became depressed and despondent. Like what's happening in your gut is affecting your serotonin and your GABA and your dopamine, and like it is all connected, ladies. I hope that they're getting this message that we cannot continue to look at things in silos. Um having said that, we do get quite a few women with an elevated CRP level, and you know, conventional doctors are like, okay, it's just your cardiovascular system, we got to work on your cholesterol. But I love how you describe like it is a general inflammation marker, and it's probably stemming from your gut issues. But yes, it can cause cardiovascular disease, which is the number one killer of women in menopause. Um, so I would love for you to speak to the fact that

Supplements That Support The Gut Brain

Dr. Tabatha 33:15

our gut health is literally affecting everything. It's not just our ability to poop and to digest our food and break down our food, right?

SPEAKER_02 33:27

It's far more sophisticated. And I remind people all the time that the gut is interconnected. There's a gut bone access, a gut brain access, a gut ovarian access that dictates when we go into menopause. So I think that there is not one organ system in the body that is not interfacing with the microbiome. And for anyone to think that the gut is irrelevant, they're really missing out on opportunities to support their patients. You know, to your point about that inflammatory marker, high sensitivity CRP, we would tell patients it's sensitive but not necessarily specific. Well, it can be high for a lot of different reasons. And I think for a lot of women, they may be transitioning between perimenopause and menopause. And they'll say, I don't feel bad, I'm not having symptoms, therefore, I don't need to talk about hormone replacement. I don't even need to have this conversation. I said if you understood at a cellular level what is happening, because all of these hormones have cellular receptors, it's important to understand that there it's not as if menopause exists in a vacuum. It's not bikini medicine. Um I'm sure, Dr. Tabitha, for you as a GYN, you understand this better than most. I think that in many instances, women have kind of had this understanding that their hormones are just responsible for fertility, for breast development, and yet they don't understand that as these hormones are declining, every single system in the body, including the immune system, including the cardiovascular system, including our ovaries, which are the most mitochondrial dense tissue in our bodies, every single system is having to shift and acclimate. And at the basis of inflammation, is aging. It's aging of the immune system. And I think about this a great deal. Obviously, my story is a really good example of what's happening as the immune system is aging. But I think for a lot of women, they unknowingly don't realize that when they decline discussions around replacing hormones, that that can magnify all these other side effects. It doesn't mean that every woman listening is going to develop heart disease, although it's one in three that will probably get us. It's a larger conversation about this baseline inflammation that goes awry. It's like a wildfire that starts and it becomes systemic. It shows up differently. Like brain inflammation can show up as brain fog. It can show up as trouble with word finding. And I think for a lot of people, they don't understand this bi-directional relationship between the gut and the brain, you know, the vagus nerve, which is a very important nerve. And I chuckle about this now, although I don't chuckle like at the expense of a patient. But I worked with a lot of cardiovascular surgery patients in cardiology who had their vagus nerve severed. And I literally cringe thinking that we didn't think that was a big deal 20 years ago, but now we know so much more. But how important that communication pathway between the gut and the brain is in terms of transference of information, transference of inflammation, uh, depending on what's going on. So I think for a lot of individuals, they are humbled to know that our body is all interconnected and the gut really is at the forefront. In fact, I've started to go out on a limb and saying that it is the key longevity organ that you might never have heard of, because in so many ways it is at the forefront of communication pathways, inflammation pathways with every other organ system in the body. And I'm sure we'll probably talk about the cumulative net effect of chronic stress and how that ages us, not just our ovaries, but ages our entire body.

Dr. Tabatha 37:02

Our gut health determines our gyne health, it determines our overall health and our longevity. It really does. And the more that I have really dove into the word and studied scripture, you know, I've come to understand that, you know, Genesis, God tells us we were made from

CRP Inflammation And Whole Body Effects

Dr. Tabatha 37:22

the dust. He took the dirt, he made us from it, he breathed life into our nostrils and regulated our nervous system and our microbiome all in one felt swoop. And so it's all very interconnected. And Ashley, I know in you know, in our program you see a lot of women who they go through this initial detox, they're half they're trying to clean up their diet and heal their gut, and then the rashes pop up and all of the skin system issues, and they're just like, What's wrong with my immune system? What's going on there? Um, can you speak to that a little bit?

Ashlee 38:03

Yeah, so actually what I was thinking about was I hope any woman who's listening to this that thinks I don't have a gut issue because I go to the bathroom every day, because that I hear that so much between discovery calls and coaching. Like that's what they'll say. We're like, Oh, my gut's fine. I go to the bathroom every day, but they're not sleeping, they have brain fog, they're depressed, they have anxiety, they have skin rashes, all this stuff. And so what you're doing, Cynthia, is literally bringing it all together. So I know we're gonna have so many women listening to this being like, oh crap, my gut is a mess. And so, yeah, I think that is something that I really wanted to share was that this is so much bigger than what you think it is. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 38:41

It's interesting. I will I will share transparently with both of you uh because I had to have like a telemed visit with my integrative physician, but I woke up one day and I said, I haven't had plaque psoriasis in 20 years. And I had a little plaque on my shoulder, and I was like, wow. And so even though I'm doing all the right things, it's the cumulative stress of the book launch over time that was impacting my immune system. And so we, you know, changed some of my protocols and it's now resolved. But I think skin things are really a true reflection of what's going on in the microbiome, what is going on with that, you know, leaky gut, you know, small intestinal hyperpermeability. Um, but I I use it as a, again, another litmus test of, you know, how well am I taking care of myself? Do I need to be even more conscientious about stress management? Do I need to be even more conscientious and diligent about sleep there, you know, sleep hygiene? And so I think for a lot of women, it's validating to know that even those of us that know a lot, even we can sometimes have skin things pop up. And it can be an it gives us an ability to course correct. I look at it as it's vital information, but it's it's a way of identifying an area that we need to do more in or do more with.

Ashlee 39:57

Yes. And you know what? So the program that we do, Healthy Her, one of the things that I love to say when the women are getting ready to transition and they're finished with that and they're healed and they're feeling so good, I say things to them like if you have anything that starts to pop up, like just the smallest amount of psoriasis again, come back, get ahead of it instead of letting it, you know, cover your body before you come back and see us or you have another follow-up appointment. And so you have we that's what we try to teach them is the knowledge to know how to kind of catch some of these signs. If you see that brain fog coming back, like you do need to adjust. It's not a I think it's sometimes people misinterpret that it's a one-time fix it. Yeah. And they don't realize. I mean, Tabitha and I could tell you how many times we've healed our own guts. It's embarrassing. But we it we're using our test as our testimony. Like we both went through so much stress in our past careers, and then you take that stress away, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you're healed. Like we're still doing so much healing. And so I feel like women just

Skin Flares As Immune System Signals

Ashlee 40:59

need to understand, you said it at the very beginning, I want to bring it up again before we talk about stress. It takes time. And we're not just talking weeks, months. I mean, you're like listening to you, it's years. And you're I mean, you said seven to ten years before you feel like you're gonna be fully healed. So that's women want to heal in six weeks. And I'm like, it took you six years to get here, maybe sixty for some women. Like you haven't done anything in sixty years and you want to heal in six weeks. Like, you know, it's kind of like dream on a little bit. But I I wanted to make sure that that was clear because women just don't understand that it's not a one-time fix it, especially because of our environment. And if you don't keep up with some of the daily nutrients and you don't keep up with your stress management, even if it's good stress, like your book tour is good stress, but it's still stress on your body.

SPEAKER_02 41:44

Right. Absolutely. In fact, I was telling a group of women the other day uh that we were talking about in the context of blood sugar and continuous glucose monitors. And I said I I had to absolutely take my CGM off the past six months because what the irony was yes, sometimes when I'm engaged in a conversation, doing a podcast, my blood sugar goes up a little bit, but it's because my cortisol goes up because I'm engaged. It is the airport travel. It is trying to make flights, trying to get connections, um, you know, being stressed trying to find your Uber driver. I mean, these things that seem kind of benign, but for me, spike my blood sugar more than anything else. And so I said for my sanity, I'm taking it off and not putting it back on because I already know what's happening at a cellular level. Like it's just enough stress that um definitely, but I think it can be valuable. The point I'm trying to make is that I think for each one of us, you know, the power of the end of one and having that transparency about the input of stressors in our lives can be really valuable information.

Dr. Tabatha 42:47

100%. And the stress never stops. You know, you said our our past careers were stressful. So is running three businesses currently and having a different kind of time. Yeah, it is. Just because you enjoy it doesn't mean your physiology reacts differently, right?

Ashlee 43:06

Well, and I feel like we um we can be more honest with ourselves too of like, nope, this is not working, like we got too much going on, we've got to pull some stuff back. And kind of like you said, Cynthia, before we started the podcast, like you you had to set some firm boundaries, and that's what you have to do. But I feel like the three of us sitting here, we can do that and say that, but it took a long time so to get to this spot.

Dr. Tabatha 43:28

Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so I want to hear what are your non-negotiables at this point to maintain all of the health that you have recovered for yourself.

SPEAKER_02 43:42

Oh gosh. I mean, number one is sleep. Uh, I am, I mean, it's comical when I go to the West Coast. You know, I live on the East Coast. I try to stay on East Coast time because I've just learned I do better going to bed early. So being really conscientious about sleep quality, um, not doing as much socially. Like right now, I'm I've scaled back enormously on what I'm doing socially so that I can maintain that focus on my sleep. And it's not just getting to bed on time, it's like getting off electronics. It's being really targeted with supplementation. It's, you know, red light therapy, it's PMF therapy if I feel like I need that. Um, obviously, anything that stimulates my vagus nerve is gonna help me decompress. Um, and there's lots of free things that people can do, like humming, singing, gargling. Um, but I do have one particular device that I actually didn't know about when I was writing the book, but I have found has actually raised my heart rate variability. So, along with sleep,

Travel Stress And Blood Sugar Spikes

SPEAKER_02 44:39

I'm tracking my heart rate variability metrics. Not that I live and die by those metrics, but it's a good litmus test of how well I'm taking care of myself. So, number one is sleep. Number two is stress management, which goes along with sleep, but this is being vicious about boundaries. Like I have a very toxic family member who I've been no contact with since last summer, and that has helped me so much. I've had to explain to my children, my husband's a hundred percent supportive, but my autonomic nervous system is so much better regulated when I don't have to interface with this family member, which has been confusing for other family members, but I'm protecting my peace. Um, but it also means, you know, I don't say yes to everything anymore. Um, that includes like, Podcasts, press things, things that put me on an airplane, speaking events, whatever it is. I've declined working with certain clients. I have said no to certain podcast guests because it's just not good for my autonomic nervous system. But it also means I have to be more proactive. So stress management means connection to nature. For me, the right types of exercise, breath work, being surrounded by the right people. Nutrition is huge. And I can tell you that I am not fasting right now. I still have 12 to 13 hours of digestive rest, but making sure I'm getting enough protein into my diet has really been prioritized. And on some days when I can't, I'm adding in essential aminos just to round it out. Not because I don't believe in eating the whole whole food piece, but sometimes with travel, it's impossible. Like this past weekend, I was at a medical conference. I had two book signings and I spoke. And by the end of the day, I was like, oh my God, I actually never ate a decent meal the entire day. This is not acceptable. So being really conscientious about nutrition and meal timing, um, hydration is huge. And I don't drink alcohol. That has been something that's been a choice over the last six years. Um, I never drank much to begin with, but you know, for me, that's a non-negotiable. And then I would say, you know, exercise is certainly really important. I think for many, many people, um, part of the challenge of this perimenopausal transition is figuring out like the types of exercise I did in my 30s. By that I mean like CrossFit, really high-level conditioning classes, I couldn't recover like I used to. And so there's strength training, there's zone two training, I do flexibility work, but the level of intensity, if it is intense, is brief because I know that I don't want to be additive. And certainly during the past couple months, there's been a lot of back off and intensity. And my trainer who I work with, who I hire so that I'm accountable and

Non Negotiables Sleep Boundaries Food Fitness

SPEAKER_02 47:15

so that I'm working towards certain metrics, um, she knows. She always says, like, I can tell as soon as I see you what you do and do not need. Um, and then, you know, I layer in, you know, the gut health piece. So being really conscientious about fiber intake, that's something that's consistent for me. Um, I try to get as much food-based sources as I can. Um, I do have some supplementation, but it's usually super targeted. It's usually on a day when I know I didn't hit my protein macros, like rounding out my fiber is certainly really important. And then beyond that, it's, you know, we're really dealing with subtleties. Hormone replacement therapy. I don't think that there is yet a primary indication for estradiol therapy, but when you look at the research, it's incredibly compelling. And I do think there will be primary indications for estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone at some point. It's just not at the same level of influence as cardiovascular disease risk, bone health. Although I'd make the argument if your gut's not healthy, your bone will not also not be healthy, and brain health. And those are kind of like the big tenets that I think about. And then, you know, the targeted supplements. But I always say supplements are meant to supplement. It's like you have to major in all these other things first and then targeted supplementation based on what you uniquely need. There's always key things, like things like magnesium and vitamin D. Almost everyone needs those. Um, some adaptogens I think can be helpful. Um, but beyond that, it's really, you know, the personalized approach that I know you take with your patients and I do as well. That let's figure out what you uniquely need. Like before you add a probiotic, please have probiotic rich foods, please have some fermented foods, please focus on your fiber. And then if we need to add more than that, then that's where supplementation I think is really important.

Dr. Tabatha 49:04

Oh my gosh, I couldn't agree more. That was a fabulous little synopsis of where you can get started right now. Like go back, rewind, listen, write it all down, and see what you're missing on the list of what Cynthia talked about, because that is literally what you and I do to get our health back on track every time we travel and we're dealing with day-to-day life. So this has been an absolutely fabulous conversation, but it is just the tip of the iceberg. Like, I know women want to understand this better. So, where can they find your book? When is it coming out? All the things.

SPEAKER_02 49:47

Well, thank you so much for having me. Always a pleasure to connect with you both. Um, right now the book is on pre-sale. It is on publication. Publication date is April 28th. So you can go to any of your major retailers, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Target, Books a Million. You can go directly to my website. There's a big banner, you can just click on that. Uh and that's www.cynthia thorlow.com. And we do have pre-sale bonuses, actually, bonuses you want, things that you'll actually need. Um a lot of it is you can play a little bit of detective work. You know, we have a gut health guide. Um, we have a little mini-series uh talking about additive things for the book. Um, but these are things that my community asked for in terms of what would be most helpful to them. So um pre-sale bonuses that will be available up until the week after publication. So I know some people may not have uh heard of the book before or may not be familiarized with my work, and so we want to

Book Details Bonuses Scripture And Next Steps

SPEAKER_02 50:41

be able to continue to offer those pre-sale bonuses to individuals up to a week after publication. So that would be um May 5th.

Dr. Tabatha 50:49

Awesome. Oh my gosh, thank you so much, ladies. Get your all-in-one microbiome lift. You can use the coupon what? Podcast. Get 20% off. But we need to start increasing our fiber and doing these things for our gut. And if you're new, you gotta do the five-day challenge because we we just gotta clean up your nutrition a little bit.

Ashlee 51:14

Clean up your nutrition, get you closer to Jesus.

Dr. Tabatha 51:17

Yes, exactly. So I just want to leave you with one last thing. If you're new here, I give you a scripture to meditate on for the week. I just want you to think about it and ask God, what are you saying to me in this? How does this relate to my life right now? And I would encourage you to go read the chapter around that scripture and start to dive into the word because there is so much healing that can happen. The word is living and active. That's what the Bible says, and it is for you. I promise. So, Jeremiah 30, 17. I will restore your health and heal your wounds, declares the Lord. That is a promise that's actually for you, not just Jeremiah back in the day. It is for you right now. So talk to God about that, meditate on that, and you know, I hope, if nothing else, you take away from Cynthia's story that God did not design you in this season to just survive. He made you to thrive in it. And like, let's actually turn it around and give it to him because he doesn't waste anything. He will use it all for your good and his glory and to bless other people if you will just get on board with it. So thank you for being such an incredible example of how we should be living our lives, Cynthia. You're just so awesome. I love you so much.

SPEAKER_02 52:52

Thank you. So good to be here with you both today. Thanks again. Awesome.

Ashlee 52:56

All right, and it's never too late and it's never too early to start. I think that's important. See you next time. Bye, ladies.

Dr. Tabatha 53:08

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