The Time-Crunched Cyclist Podcast by CTS

Smart Strength Training for Cyclists, with Sarah Scozzaro MS, NSCA-CPT, NASM-PES

• CTS • Season 5 • Episode 273

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OVERVIEW
95% of the cyclists and runners coached by Sarah Scozzaro and Adam Pulford incorporate strength training. Scozzaro is one of our top strength and conditioning coaches and in Episode 273 she and Coach Adam discuss how cyclists should blend strength and endurance training throughout the year.

Topics Covered In This Episode:

  • How different endurance athletes leverage strength training
  • How strength training changes throughout the year
  • When to back off strength training volume during event/race season
  • How to reintegrate more strength training in the post-season
  • Resources for self-coached and time-crunched athletes

Resources

Guest Bio:

Sarah Scozzaro is a CTS Pro Coach who specializes in strength training and  ultrarunning. A coach within the CTS High Performance Program, she is on the performance teams for Western States Champions Katie Schide and Abby Hall.  Sarah has her Masters's degree in Exercise Science with a concentration in performance enhancement and injury prevention. She has a long list of qualifications and certifications after her name, including being a National Strength and Conditioning Association certified personal trainer (NSCA-CPT) and National Academy of Sports Medicine performance enhancement specialist (NASM-PES).

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Speaker 1:

From the team at CTS. This is the Time Crunch Cyclist podcast, our show dedicated to answering your training questions and providing actionable advice to help you improve your performance even if you're strapped for time. I'm your host, coach Adam Pulford, and I'm one of the over 50 professional coaches who make up the team at CTS. In each episode, I draw on our team's collective knowledge, other coaches and experts in the field to provide you with the practical ways to get the most out of your training and ultimately become the best cyclist that you can be. Now on to our show. Now on to our show.

Speaker 1:

Welcome back, time Crunch fans. I'm your host, coach Adam Pulford. I'm back with CTS coach Sarah Scazzaro to talk about performance benefits from strength training in endurance sport, but we're going to take a slightly different angle on it, because I know most of you listening likely do some kind of strength training already and you know the benefits. But how can you arrange your training on a high level or like on an annual level to make sure that you've got the performance benefits and the freshness you need going into that key race? So, sarah, welcome back.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for having me back. It's been so long. It's been so long.

Speaker 1:

In our last episode we talked about weighted vests, sports specificity of training and kind of claimed things that training stimulus do out there when it comes to fitness, strength training and whatnot. If you missed that episode, feel free to go back, but you don't need that episode to understand what we're going to talk about today, because today is all about strength training as it pertains to performance in endurance sport as well as just like performance as a human being. So, Sarah, is it a fair assumption to say that probably all of the athletes that you coach do some kind of strength training?

Speaker 2:

I'd say a good 90, 95% of them, and if yeah, if they're not doing it with me, they might be working in person with a trainer. Um, I have a, I have a few that just don't have, truly don't have the time, which I think we'll touch on in a bit, um, or really don't want to, which makes my heart break a little bit.

Speaker 1:

I will be honest, but you know, yes my heart goes on but your heart, yeah, your heart shall go on, but I shall go on I am very, very much so. The same. I would say 90, 95. It's not a pure 100, but why? Why do you have them do that strength training? If they're an endurance, ultra running sport or gravel race or something like this, why do they do it at a high level? What do you expect to gain from it?

Speaker 2:

durability, strength I mean I I look at my athletes through the lens of they're not only an athlete, they're a human being and, especially, like my women, bone density. We need bone density, we need muscle, we need, you know, all of these components that strength training can give, that you don't necessarily get from running itself. You don't get the same stimulus that makes you just a healthier, more durable human, which then translates to me, I believe, to a healthier, more durable athlete. So it's kind of just like this beautiful symmetry there of each one helps the other.

Speaker 1:

That's exactly it. Of each one helps the other. That's that's exactly it. And, like I said in my intro, we're not going to spend a ton of time trying to like sell the benefits to people, because I think the message is it's out there on that but kind of interestingly. Um, you know we talk about in this research project we saw xyz. Fun fact I did my own undergrad research project when I was in college and it was and it was investigating the, the. What was the exact title? It was investigating the performance improvements of strength training and Olympic style weightlifting in endurance athletes.

Speaker 2:

I did not know this about you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I will send it away. But I mean I have my own criticisms of the study design and things like this. But I mean what we did was time trials before and after and we had an eight week protocol where we used Olympic style weightlifting, so power, clean squat, I think we did a power snatch and some other stuff. I wrote the strength training program for it train them for eight weeks and then freshen them up and tested them and we saw mixed results on performance. Okay, mixed results. Some people got faster, some people didn't change, some people like didn't test again because they got busy and all this kind of stuff.

Speaker 1:

We were using college professors and a local triathlon group in the lacrosse, wisconsin, and it was super, super fun.

Speaker 1:

But one key takeaway I want everybody to to realize here is the qualitative data that we got from. It was everybody who did the training said I felt better. I felt better while doing my training, I felt better while running, biking, I felt better throughout the day and I would say that going through that process is like seeing them in the first two weeks versus the final two weeks. They moved better at everything that we did, cause we did a lot of like dynamic warmup type stuff as well, and like they just moved better as as people. So now the criticism is just, like you know, was six to eight weeks long enough to see a performance improvement in sport, or is that performance improvement negligible because it really came down to the aerobic development needed to do these time trials that we're doing and we won't get into that. But I think the key aspect of if you scale that out over time, or even if you take the fact that they felt better and they moved better, now we're talking about the benefit of strength training, at least one arm of it.

Speaker 2:

Oh, absolutely, you know increased you know just neuromuscularly increased proprioception, increased feelings of durability and strength and being more connected with your body, certain things we just don't get on the bike or when we're running and I know that's pretty subjective of like I feel better. You know, it's like people want like studies, like yeah, but how much better did you get? And it's like, well, it's really hard to measure all of those little details, especially like I look at like strength for ultra runners, how better they are navigating over rocky terrain, how better they can balance over going over uneven, you know courses, and I just feel like there's not only the strength benefit of things, but just feeling more comfortable, confident and competent in your body is a benefit I don't think a lot of people think about when they first start strength training.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I don't think they do either, but I I would. I will still make the claim that data is greater than feelings, or greater and equal to feelings, and I, if you get down to it, feeling it can still be a piece of data because it is qualitative data. With that as a launching pad, there is a way to measure the improved performance benefit in cycling and running, and we'll get to some of those examples here in a minute. But kind of coming back to it is like how do we do this, sarah? Like we do strength training to get all these benefits, but in the previous episode I talked about strength is separate from endurance. So and it's very different because of the way that we put the stimulus, meaning we load in a very overloading sort of way.

Speaker 1:

Fun fact that I've spilled on this podcast multiple times before and people are going to be like man, you talk about that all the time, but you need a good reminder is that when you do a jump, when you just like squat down, reach and jump, the power production that you do in that movement is about five times greater than what you can do on a, on your maximum effort, sprinting on a bicycle.

Speaker 1:

Okay, the power production and force production that you can do. Jumping and lifting your body off of the earth is five times greater than a maximum effort sprint, okay. So people need to realize how different that is Okay. However, what we can do is overload the body in a very maximum way, in a very different way that will then have carryover so long as we're doing our sport Right, and then we'll get the benefit there and some of these other benefits, just like improving the integrity of the muscle, the quality of movement and things like this. So, sarah, I want to talk about this extra stimulus. At some point we're doing all this training, building up to it. Building up to it. If we don't change that training stimulus, will it be a detriment when we come into our key race period, or should we just keep on doing it in hopes that it will help us through our key race time period?

Speaker 2:

So to make sure I'm understanding your question, you're asking if we continue doing a certain like we're in a strength training.

Speaker 1:

Maybe I'll take it from the top and what I want to say is like okay, these two are separate things the strength training, the endurance training, and this training Strength training is a lot more stress and a lot different stress than what we need for the specificity of ultra running or cycling, but this extra stress is going to help us for those races. So how do you balance that, weave that or take down this stimulus or stressor coming into this phase of racing?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, absolutely. I work on the principle and maybe you do do this as well as least specific to most specific. So in the beginning of a season we're as far away from let's say we're as far away from an event as we're going to be in in terms of when we start preparing for it. So let's say we're six months out for a hundred, although one could argue we're preparing for these things over years and cumulative training, right. But you got this. You sign up for a race, you've got the race on the calendar and we're pretty far out from it. So what we do in the weight room is going to have, in the moment, minimal impact on the training for that event. I would like to argue that in the long run it has very big impact because what we're building early we can call upon to utilize later. But in terms of how it's going to air, quotes negatively impact the training, ie, you're going to have excess fatigue, you're not going to be able to hit certain workouts, it's not. It's going to be of a big of a concern at that point.

Speaker 2:

As we get closer to an event or we get into, like, peak season, then we do have to start changing, whether it's the volume or the intensity, and usually as we get closer to an event it's going to be a bit of the volume that I'm changing. We like to keep some of that intensity but we just kind of take off the volume a bit. I don't like to change too much in general from an intensity standpoint because people get really comfortable and used to that and that stimulus and then you pull that away from them very quickly and it can be more jarring and you know. So it's like we like to keep that. But overall, how much we're loading the system. So I refer to volume, that is, how much, how many reps and sets. So how many, how much, technically, how much weight they're lifting over a session, because reps by sets, by weight lifted, um, kind of figuring out the volume there, uh, but the intensity will be very similar and I think it it's.

Speaker 1:

I mean, clearly our audience should realize that when you get it like a true nerdy strength uh coach that loves to quantify, like all the things, we have the same things like, uh, volume, load and like duration and all these quantifiable things in the gym that you can kind of see in your brain and measure over time, so very similar to our, like our cycling, volume, intensity, frequency, running, same, all this kind of stuff.

Speaker 1:

So a good coach will map that out in whatever modality that she or he is using. And that's really what we're talking about, I think from. To make it as simple as possible is, if you do strength training to help improve your performance, you've got to take it down about four to six weeks, like two to three times a week leading up. If I just if I take it and I go zero, which I never do because of what you just said, and I never really like to take it further away because it it does something to the psyche as well as the muscles. So you need to have a maintenance period in there. However, if we just take it down to maintenance, I should still get those benefits for at least four to six weeks, if not maybe a little longer, depending on athlete phenotype, muscle type, the history of all the things, but like would you agree?

Speaker 2:

oh yeah, absolutely. And even in that case, um, as we get closer to like event like that final four to six weeks and you know stress is getting higher with the volume of their actual main sport training, we'll call it, whether that's cycling or running, life stuff happens recovery. I will always prioritize those things in that key area and if that means we have to reduce the strength from three to two or two to one, you can maintain easily four to six weeks, even off that one session if you had to. So I think that's important for people to realize that you know like, oh God, I feel so bad, I have to cut back on my strength and it's like you're not going to lose anything. We've got to prioritize this event and if that comes, if strength comes at the or if recovery comes at the cost of your strength, we have to start the hierarchy of what's important.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, back to your question. I'm kind of getting off the rails there. But back to your question. Yes, that the rails there. But back to your question. Yes, that four to six weeks is that critical period we may not change. So again, this is very athlete specific. I work with everything from first time strength people to some of the pros and so experience and background with strength plays a lot into this. So with some folks we're not changing necessarily the exercises too too much, but the volume of them, the placement and sets, you know what, what else we're doing, that those types of things, um, we're not going from. You know we're not changing things too significantly, but um, yeah, we do have to to adjust to account for those final four to six weeks.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I think for listeners the main message is like if you do strength training and if you don't really cycle the training or change too much, or if you, if you're resistant to it coming in cause you don't want to lose those gains, it's like let go because you're fine.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, number one, you're fine. Number two you'll capitalize on a super compensation effect, which is you have all this. You got to think about an athlete like where they're going, kind of like what Sarah was saying is just like the history of them, where they're going in the long run. And the way I think as a coach is like things cycle up and cycle down, right, so as we're getting, you know, momentum and strength in the gym, uh, we might lose it in the bike and then we gain it in the bike and we might lose it in the gym, completely fine.

Speaker 1:

But there's this little time period where we can have a super compensation effect and for my crit racers, mountain bike racers, people that have a lot of anaerobic contribution to the, to the race themselves, that four to six weeks I usually, if I do strength training well with them leading up to it, take it off and they just go and they do their group rides or races or I tell them to go do a sprint. I usually get a an extra two to 3% when I just take the, the gym stress off itself because, think about it, it is a stressor If I take it away and I was stressing them properly. There is that adaptation effect, super compensation effect, that goes into a good taper and all this kind of stuff and I just I get it at that right time and that's typically what I see when I do it. Well, 100.

Speaker 2:

And that's the key to doing it well and that's part of the art and science of it right Of knowing that particular athlete and knowing when to start pulling back and and how.

Speaker 2:

You know again, it's strength training is a stressor and it has to be in order to get the adaptations we want. So if you're doing it right, it's a stressor and at certain points in an athlete's season that stress becomes more of a liability I hate to use that word, but it becomes more of a risk than a gain proposition. So we have to pull back a little bit, a to be able to have them recovered and be able to perform well, but also, like you mentioned, to actually even get that super compensation. So we're actually getting a bonus from it. So people automatically think I mean I have athletes that I'll go around and around with because they're like I need to. I don't want to stop strength training. You know to me, you know it's like okay, but know that if you do, you're not going to lose fitness. In fact, we might actually start to get some benefits from this.

Speaker 2:

That's it which blows their mind because they think well, if I stop doing the thing, I stop getting the benefits, and that's not how this works.

Speaker 1:

Exactly and I think it's one thing that helped me realize that was actually from, like, the fatigue associated with training Coley Moore, who's been on this podcast before he. He's got a nice joke. He always says people they get comfortable with this cloak of fatigue.

Speaker 1:

where I said just like do more training, do more training. I feel this way and they're like have this cloak of fatigue and I feel good and normal. Let's remove that cloak, freshen up and go. And it can be from running, it can be from cycling, but it can also be from strength training, where you're staying suppressed in order for a gain eventually. So now you got to determine when you want that gain to happen. Take away the stress.

Speaker 1:

We got four to six weeks usually, but that with an asterisk too, because I think the reality is, with my athletes who are doing a lot of strength training, I don't just take it off for four to six weeks, I take that off for a key time period, but then we're probably rolling in maintenance mode for, you know, four months or so, and then we have a transition period and then we kind of like start back up in like off season and in something like this. So I think, like, without getting into a whole annual planning kind of saga, I think what I've heard and seen from athletes out there as well I've done it well and I've not done it well but from some of the self-coached athletes, it's like they think they need to be doing strength training year round to get all those benefits and I really want them to challenge that thought and to cycle the training and to take it off during those key time periods, because you're only going to get more benefit.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, from a performance standpoint, which is what we're talking about here. You know, obviously and there's the part of me that argues like, oh, but strength training is good year round because of who we are. But, yes, we can recognize that but also see its place in performance and preparation for events and how we have to bleed it off and pull back and then we know that after the event and after recovery we can come right back at it in an appropriate way at the appropriate time. I think, just like our normal endurance sport training, if you do something nonstop year round and never give yourself a break, you are going to get mental and physical burnout. It's not sustainable. So I think there's a point where you kind of like step back from something and then you're that much more excited and ready and prepared to do it when it's time to come back to it. Whatever you and your coach or you personally decide that timing is, for some people it's a bigger break than others.

Speaker 1:

Yep, yep, that's it. And I think too, like just for self-coach athletes wanting a little bit more concrete stuff here is you know, if you're going to do strength training, probably you know three or four times where you're touching weights and stressing your body three times to four times a week in this kind of like build phase and that can come with an asterisk. But I think, when you're, when you're in that season sort of stuff, when you're like training and or training heavily, or racing or something like this Aaron Carson, who's been on this podcast before, she trains movement versus muscle. Uh, that's her thing and I would highly agree with her on this is like now we reduce frequency to two or two and a half times per week and we reduce load, quite a bit Um, and it's it.

Speaker 2:

uh God, the people that could have the bandwidth to do four days a week of strength and high level training and recovery, and it's just it. It's too much.

Speaker 1:

It's a lot and if I do have people doing four, it's usually because I've reduced the endurance training component right To to offer more time and and I think for a time crunched athlete that's like listening to this where it's like I'm lucky to get like five hours a week or maybe like four days of actual training per week. How do you handle somebody who wants to do their sport and strength training and they only got four, six hours to do it?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So, like we've talked about before, that kind of a hierarchy of training and training, and if their event requires so much training in order to do it optimally and perform the best that they can get to that start line, we're going to prioritize the main sport, of course, especially in like that peak session, and that might mean where you get two or one days of strength training a week. For some people that means that's when we start to bleed it off, when we pull it back because we just they either don't have the time to do the training or it comes at the cost of well, I could ride or I could lift, and dollars to donuts you're going to say, hey, I'd rather have you ride, in your case, with your goal, with where you are. I would say the same with my running athletes and or have the time, but they don't have the recovery. So they've got the time to do the two days of strength a week, but they don't have the time to then fully recover, to do the, to do their rides or their runs, because that's cutting into recovery time.

Speaker 2:

And if, if their main sport is coming at a cost of the strength, then that's when we have to start really adjusting sometimes. Sometimes that's simply that could even be a shorter session, like, hey, we're going to hit just two or three lifts just to kind of keep you, you know, because you love it. I've got athletes. I'm one of them. I love to strength train, I want to be in the gym, I love doing it and, okay, well, let's structure this in a way that is proactive and productive, versus putting you in a hole. Um, so there's that too. It doesn't have to be a 90 minute session. None of my sessions are 90 minutes, by the way, don't do bodybuilding training here, um, but yeah, how about yourself? Do you find kind of similar?

Speaker 1:

It's similar, for sure, I think, for a time crunched athlete. It's just where it gets like nuanced, individualized, and I would argue like like on one hand over here and then on the other hand over here, like two separate things. It's like strength training year round is really beneficial for a time crunched athlete because it's going to make them a healthier like human. But then it's like, oh well, we can get rid of the strength training component and maximize the volume, right. But I to your point, I do that when they're coming up like uh, I gave you the example earlier it's like somebody coming up to the triple bypass and it's like, if I got an extra 20 or 30 minutes, we need to put that on the bike, yeah, and like skip strength training.

Speaker 1:

But one one quick hack that I do with time crunch people during that uh like time period where we just need to like maintain somewhat, is I do push-ups, uh, sit sit-ups or like, uh, like in air squats, you know that kind of thing, or wall sits, and it's just like before they jump on the bike, it's maybe like five or seven minutes of just like moving and stimulating the muscles and then they go, and I usually do it before because they tend to feel better when they ride, cause they're like activated and warmed up and gone, versus like if they a wall sit after they ride.

Speaker 2:

They last half as long because the muscles are already tired and if they're doing the wall sit before, they're probably they're actually you're seeing a good response in their, their ride time, versus you're getting a poor air quotes, poor response in the wall sit after. So it's like doing it before for that particular athlete. You get the benefit of both. Um, I know I have some athletes that were even scaling back to some form of a contrast train with a plyo and an isometric exercise that we do in certain points where they don't have a lot of time. But there's very especially with isometrics. There's very little cost and some great gain in terms of how it's going to impact their training. And to your point earlier, I love giving these broad like oh, this is what I do, but it is, and I'm sure you're the same way. It is.

Speaker 2:

So athlete, individual focused. I will have athletes training for the same events. Their training looks nothing similar. Their strength training looks nothing alike. How they handle the loading, their life, everything outside of their training impacts their training. And so recovery time, job stress, life everything outside of their training impacts their training, you know. And so recovery time, job stress, life, access to equipment, priorities, you know I've got some athletes that are like, yeah, I want to do this 100 miler, but I also really want to. You know, my bone density is very important to me and I'd rather come to the event. I'm not looking to perform, like you know, top 10 or anything. I want to to finish, but I also want to be really strong and I love my strength training. Yeah, they get to that's. That's they get to prioritize and decide how we shape their training. I don't get to tell them like no, this isn't important for you, so, and vice versa too, because then I'll get. If we talked about earlier, we started. I've got that small percentage of athletes that are like zero interest in strength training.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, my soul dies, like I said a little. Every time they say that just so you all know. But I have to respect that. I can try to tell them the benefits and show them the benefits, but at the end of the day they get to make the decision of what they want in part of their training yeah, yeah, I mean, it's their training, it's their, and their goals become my goals, so to speak, and it's up to me to guide them in the right direction.

Speaker 1:

Say, yeah, strength training can improve you a little bit, but if you don't want to do it, okay, cool. It's like somebody trying to get me to do an eight-hour ride. I'm just not going to do it at this point.

Speaker 2:

Well, you said it perfectly their goals become your goals, not the other way around, and I think that's important, and I think there are too many coaches that want to take their athletes and and make them conform to the coaches. Goals Like this is what you need to do, because that's what the textbook says or the studies say, versus like oh, this is a hugely a fully formed individual who has their own preferences and ways they want to do things, and how can I work with them and their goals to make this happen?

Speaker 1:

no-transcript them out into the grass and I say, okay, do this. And it's going to take 10 minutes. And I'm much more in line with that because my background, I mean, I basically lived in a wrestling room or a gym for about 20 years of my life. Then I found the bike and then I'm like, oh, this is great, and I just don't want to be inside anymore, and that's a driving force for me.

Speaker 1:

And I think, finally, another layer to that is like giving these broad pieces of advice and information to our listeners, because it's like, oh, it just depends, right, but we need to give enough information so that they can make their own decision and cut through the layers of BS that are out there, saying you need to do six days a week in the gym for the results or something. It's like you don't right. And if there's any, you know, if you need authority from any sort of like influencer or person on a podcast or something like this, like you're getting it here Stay away from the weighted vests and think differently from strength versus endurance. They are separate, but if you weave it together, well, you get great performance.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, exactly and and kind of like what you said earlier, like with Aaron and the same think about as, as movement patterns, think about as like you don't have to be in the gym doing these crazy things. Just do a, do a version of a squat, do a version of a hinge, do a version of a lunge, do a version of push and a like, strip it away. Make it simple. It doesn't have to be complicated. If you, if if you want to make it complicated, you can and there are plenty of ways to do that, but it doesn't have to be. I think people get this all or nothing attitude of it has to be in a gym, it has to be with this equipment. It's like, no, it can be on your lawn with a heavy kettlebell or appropriately heavy kettlebell, and some sunshine and some music and 10 minutes.

Speaker 1:

Yep.

Speaker 1:

So, that is 100 percent it, and I and I would like to like kind of end this podcast with that specific message to the endurance athlete, because I think there's a lot of people that are like that and I think to make the joke of, we are a feeble strength athlete when we have a lot of endurance, is it again? It doesn't take much to move the needle in the way of gaining strength for us as endurance athletes. So, um, sarah, to you, what other resources can we give athletes other than to say, like, make it real simple, do 10 minutes? Here's a couple of routines and I'll I'll link to some routines that I have for people to start. But, like, what are some good resources that, like you have off the top of your head, or um, that that you use with your athletes, that we could recommend?

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah, good question. We've talked about this before. Anything that the NSCA puts out is going to be good. They have great studies. A lot of it is more of, if it's more of, the scholastic Some people just want like, I don't want it in a peer-reviewed study, I want just the information. I'd like to think that I provide decent information on social media. So folks like me, folks like Aaron, there are a lot of good coaches out there. I know Chris Lee out there. There are some really really good strength coaches that work with endurance athletes and they understand the balance of endurance work and strength work and how to pair them beautifully, because there are people that are really good at endurance sports and people that are really good at strength but they don't understand how they intersect and how to make them blend really well. So I think those coaches that do a very good job of that are a good place to start. Yeah, how about yourself?

Speaker 1:

Yeah Well, I 100% agree with that. I think in my resources links I've got an article from Chris Lee and I think that's either on Training Peaks or somewhere else. But anyway, go into our show notes or to trainrightcom backslash podcast for the landing page and you'll see links in there with that article in particular, as well as one from UESCA as well, where they have a good guide of where to start and I think, for the self-coached time crunch athlete is you start with something that is good, referred to by by, by like Sarah or myself or like a good known coach, and you just use trial and error, start low, go slow and find a routine that does work for you. If you want to take it to the next level, you work with somebody like Sarah, for example, because I think that you use even a totally separate platform when you're working with your athletes. Is that correct?

Speaker 2:

I do. I use a platform called PT distinction that I load all of their strength training on and record all the videos and whatnot and tutorials for my athletes training on and record all the videos and whatnot and tutorials for my athletes.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, so and so I think when you want, when you want that kind of like higher level, let's make the gains, let's weave that performance element in with like strength as pertains to your sport. I mean, you, you go with somebody you know, like Sarah, or you organize it yourself in a very high level, but I think, like the low hanging fruit of, okay, I really need to start strength again, or I I had a strength training program last year that just like overdid it, which is very common in the endurance athlete world Um, start to just a little bit more trial and error. Start with the resources we're providing and I would say, err on the side of less, because we do so much other work and training in our sport that we don't need a ton. But if we find the right dosage, it goes a long way.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. I would add to that too, for those people that maybe aren't as comfortable in the gym or like the accountability, working in person with a strength coach can be helpful. The caveat, the asterisk I will say on that is please find somebody that also understands endurance sports. They are out there because I've had many an athlete go to a trainer that doesn't understand endurance sports and absolutely destroys, like it destroys them in a in a joking way, but I mean it's, it's. It's all the plyos all day, all the dynamic work, all the heavy, heavy lifting to them. They can't even do their long runs or any of their intensities because their their legs are trashed or they are exhausted. Um, and there's a. There are people that understand how to do that balance. So find those coaches.

Speaker 1:

That's, that's it. And, yeah, you'll be destroyed for you know that week or next couple of weeks, but it'll pay off in the end. Uh, if you go that deep, and I think to that end, I mean again, we'll end with this. It's just like think of that strength and endurance separately, and there's going to be a point where you let go of the strength training stimulus in order to get the benefits of that performance. That we're talking about coming into a key time period and I think that that, if you take nothing else away from this episode, it is that message that I really want everybody to receive.

Speaker 2:

And that's coming from two people that really love strength. It's okay to let it. It's okay to let it go. It's let it go. It will come back to you.

Speaker 1:

I was just going to say that it will come back. It will come back. Oh, my God, we got to end there. Sarah, thank you again for your time. I always love talking with you, whether it's in person or between two microphones. Uh, which we should probably just call this podcast, and uh, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So thank you again for your time. I really do appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me on.

Speaker 1:

This has been lovely, as always. Thanks for joining us on the time crunch cyclist podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. If you want even more actual training advice, head over to train rightcom backslash newsletter and subscribe to our free weekly publication. Each week you'll get in-depth training content that goes beyond what we cover here on the podcast. That'll help you take your training to the next level. That's all for now. Until next time, train hard, train smart, train right.

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