Decoding PCOS: Effective Management, Lifestyle Strategies, and Understanding Hormonal Health. With Court Garfoot

 In this weeks episode you have the pleasure to listen to a conversation I had in 2022 with the mighty Court Garfoot,  talking everything PCOS (Polycystic Ovary Syndrome)

Court is a nutritionist and specialises in hormone imbalances including PCOS and Endometriosis.
She is also very eloquent and knowledgable so she is just the ticket when you want to talk to someone about this sort of thing.

We went over loads including some of the most important questions;

What is PCOS and what it is not?
The 4 different kinds of PCOS????
What REALLY causes PCOS?
Why does the NHS advice to PCOS say there is no cure?
How can you manage PCOS?
What are your starting points to sorting your PCOS?
How long does it take for lifestyle changes to take effect?

and much, MUCH, more.


You can find Court by going to her website
On Instagram here and here
On Facebook here
And LinkedIn

No "In the news" but I do briefly touch on Tatjana Maria reaching the Quarter Finals of Wimbledon today. It just shows you that, with the right team around you, and some hard work and dedication there is no reason why you can't be in better shape post-partum than you were pre-natal!


As always; HPNB still only has 5 billing cycles.

So this means that you not only get 3 months FREE access, no obligation!

BUT, if you decide you want to do the rest of the program, after only 5 months of paying $10/£8 a month you now get FREE LIFE TIME ACCESS! That's $50 max spend, in case you were wondering.

Though I'm not terribly active on  Instagram and Facebook you can follow us there. I am however active on Threads so find me there!

And, of course, you can always find us on our YouTube channel if you like your podcast in video form :)

Visit healthypostnatalbody.com and get 3 months completely FREE access. No sales, no commitment, no BS.

Email peter@healthypostnatalbody.com if you have any questions, comments or want to suggest a guest/topic


Playing us out this week; "ever" by Mickey Geiger 

Transcript

Peter Lap: 0:00

Hey, welcome to the Healthy Postnatal Body Podcast with your postnatal expert, Peter Lap. That, as always, would be me. This week I am bringing an episode from the vault, as I had a lot of questions about polycystic ovaries and PCOS and I did an interview with the mighty, mighty Court Garfoot about this a couple of years ago. She's a nutritionist and specializes in hormone imbalances , including pcos and endometriosis, and she's also, as the podcast description says, she's very eloquent and knowledgeable. So she is just a ticket. So you know why would I yak my way through this when you can listen to someone who does this full time for a living? Uh, I, I love this conversation. You're gonna love this if you're at all interested in pcos. So you know somebody who does. And again, as always, peter at healthyposthatalbodycom. If you have any questions or comments yourself and want me to touch on a subject, right here we go. So you hear a lot of people talking about PCOS these days, but what exactly is it?

Court Garfoot: 1:29

So PCOS is? It's kind of an umbrella term really that's being used at the moment to cover a few different things, but the diagnostic criteria at the moment is referred to as the Rotten Dam criteria. So you need two of the following three criteria to be classified as having PCOS. So the first one is having oligo or an ovulatory cycle, so cycles that are greater than 35 days or shorter than 21 days. Hyperandromism, so there might be hertuism, so male hair growth patterns on a female, so you typically see that around the sides of the face and raise testosterone levels when hormone testing is done and you might see polycystic ovaries on an ultrasound. The other interesting criteria based on the Rotten Dam criteria for PCOS is that other causes of these must be excluded before it can be put down to PCOS. So adrenal conditions need to be ruled out. Cushing syndrome, thyroid dysfunction, all need to be ruled out before you can come to a conclusion of PCOS, because they can impact the length of the cycle, the androgen levels, things like that.

Court Garfoot: 2:46

In terms of what's actually causing the PCOS, the research is really mixed at the moment. It's not often spoken about, but there are four different types of PCOS. So these are insulin resistant PCOS, where high insulin levels tell the ovaries to make more androgens, so that causes the androgen levels to increase. You get that higher levels like you get the appearance of male hair growth on a female, and it can throw out the length of the cycle. There's post-peel PCOS, where it's a temporary kind of PCOS that's caused after hormonal contraception and that can be due to a range of things such as inflammation, vitamin and mineral deficiencies that have been depleted while using hormonal contraception, and also that communication between the brain and the ovaries being switched off. While there's been hormonal contraception managing that cycle, they're still learning how to communicate again. So that can last anywhere from 3 to 12 months and it should go back to what a cycle was pre-peel after that.

Court Garfoot: 4:03

But sometimes there will be a PCOS that's developed from that. There's inflammatory PCOS, where inflammation stimulates excess ovarian production of androgens, so that inflammation can be caused by environmental factors such as exposure to toxins, even things like cleaning chemicals, makeup, those kind of factors in our environments. It can be caused by stress increasing inflammation. Gut microbiome dysbiosis can increase inflammation in the body and it can also be caused by obesity. But that's a two-way street at the moment where we're not sure if the obesity causes the inflammation or the inflammation causes the obesity, so that can go both ways. And then the fourth type is adrenal PCOS, where increased stress raises the DHEA, which is an androgen hormone produced by the adrenal glands. So that increases a different androgen hormone than the testosterone but has a similar effect on the cycle to the other forms of PCOS.

Court Garfoot: 5:17

So that was a bit of a long-winded answer, but there's a lot of information in there because it can be.

Peter Lap: 5:24

It can be really tricky to determine the type of pcos because they can overlap yeah, because that's fascinating, right, because I've heard about pcos for a while now, usually polycystic ovaries. I came across that first um 10 years or so ago. Now that started to crop up and the the discussion at the time so these are not medical discussions just say lay people chat. So someone would say I have polycystic ovaries, therefore I can't lose weight, and the result was because it was usually to do with, like weight loss and and all that sort of stuff, these things were often in the gym and then, um, they were saying I have polycystic ovaries, so I can't lose weight, and the standard response at the time was hey, you just need to go on a low carb diet and you'll be fine.

Court Garfoot: 6:15

That was the only thing we ever knew about any sort of pcos yeah, and the the polycystic ovaries is almost a fallacy, because a polycystic ovary is an immature ovary that hasn't progressed in to being the egg that gets used through the cycle. So, depending on when an ultrasound is done, you might have multiple cysts if you're pre-ovulation, because they're still fighting to pick the egg that's going to be used in the cycle, whereas if you do a scan, we try to do a post-ovulatory scan around day 21 because typically a woman would have ovulated by then in a normal cycle and there shouldn't be polycystic ovaries that late in the cycle because we've already ovulated. So it can be that can almost be a false term to use. Say, like I've got polycystic ovaries.

Court Garfoot: 7:10

Well, there's so many more things that go into that. The weight loss can be a factor with PCOS because the insulin resistance is high and the inflammation can be high, so they're playing into the weight loss picture of someone having trouble losing weight. And a lot of the things that we look into from a nutritional perspective is addressing those drivers of the inflammation and the insulin resistance and being careful. You need a calorie deficit, but being really cautious about how far that deficit is, because you don't want to place stress on the body, increase the cortisol, increase the stress hormones, increase the androgens. Repeat the cycle.

Peter Lap: 7:59

Yeah, no, exactly, because that's the thing. All the four types of PC, pcos, or at least three of them and I don't make notes when I interview people, I listen more than making notes, but at least three of them are very much. They sound like they have, uh, certain lifestyle changes as a solution to, to the problem, rather than. I mean, if you look on the nhs website with regards to pcos, the the uk nhs website, this is yeah, there's no cure, go screw yourself. Um, I mean, I'm paraphrasing the most frustrating thing.

Peter Lap: 8:37

That's pretty much what it boils down. There's no cure and bloop, but there's.

Court Garfoot: 8:43

There's nothing after that and, to talk completely honestly on that, a lot of that advice in a medical sense comes from the fact that there's no medication that can be prescribed for PCOS. There is a whole lot that can be done in a holistic sense to improve PCOS and it's like it generally comes down to hormone, like it's a hormonal imbalance because of these factors that have happened already, but that can be addressed and our hormones can change and fluctuate, like it's not a setting stone. This is how it is.

Peter Lap: 9:19

Yeah, no, exactly, because we all accept that that hormones can change, because you know they change throughout the course of our lifetime, whether you're male or female, and that is just the way it goes.

Peter Lap: 9:28

Um, so then when we're talking lifestyle change because usually what I find within the nhs and when it comes to, uh, illnesses or diseases and all that sort of stuff, is that if there isn't a pill for it, they just go with the. Yeah, eating better helps a bit because they and from their perspective and I interviewed a couple of gps a while ago they were like, yeah, those people aren't changing their lifestyles anyway, so there's no point in telling them to do that right, which is a bit of a fatalistic attitude. Um, but I understand their frustration. They see two and a half thousand people a year. Absolutely, at least 2,400 of them won't make any changes.

Court Garfoot: 10:08

Yeah, but it can happen, and they're also in a situation where they see someone for maybe 10 minutes.

Peter Lap: 10:14

Yeah.

Court Garfoot: 10:16

It's very transactional.

Peter Lap: 10:18

Yes, exactly that is what they have. I don't have a pill to give you. Yeah, google stuff yourself. That is usually what it kind of comes down to. Cool, so what sort of? Because, like I said, all these things are lifestyle changes. You talk a bit about environmental toxins, absolutely, stress levels. So where do you start? When you have PCOS, yeah, what should really your first step be to trying to resolve it? Because it sounds like a very broad spectrum of things that you could do.

Court Garfoot: 10:48

Absolutely, absolutely, I would start by. I mean it depends a little bit on the type, but they all do have a stress and inflammation connection. So I would be looking to reduce stress where possible connection so I would be looking to reduce stress where possible. Magnesium is a really interesting nutrient because our need for magnesium increases with stress because it can be a precursor for GABA, which is quite calming in the body. But when we are stressed we deplete our body of magnesium. We just lose it we can't use at the same time, so our need for it increases even more. Um. So, in like introducing magnesium, modulating the stress response and reducing environmental toxins can be really beneficial as well. So looking towards natural cleaning products, natural skincare products, those factors that just reduce that load on the body.

Court Garfoot: 11:54

There's also some really interesting food as medicine hacks almost that you can do, particularly addressing the insulin resistance, do, um, particularly addressing the insulin resistance. And so vinegar is really good for reducing, um, the blood glucose spike after eating foods, and there's some really great research around that as well. And that covers all types of vinegar. That doesn't particularly have to be apple cider vinegar or anything in particular. So having, um, you know, apple cider vinegar as a salad dressing or balsamic vinegar in a vinaigrette as a salad dressing can really help balance those blood glucose levels after a meal and help reduce those angio levels, reduce the inflammation. Cinnamon is another one that can help balance blood glucose levels and reduce that spike after a meal. So we often recommend people to have a porridge with cinnamon in the morning because it's a really great way to get the digestive system flowing and that cinnamon will also help modulate the immune system.

Court Garfoot: 13:07

High fiber foods are also really great because they slow down the digestion and a lot of low GI foods are recommended for people with PCOS because they slow that digestion down and reduce those glucose spikes which you know, as I've spoken about. Reduce those glucose spikes which you know, as I've spoken about, reduce those high insulin levels that cause inflammation and high androgen levels. So I would yeah, I would be really looking at reducing stress, reducing environmental toxins and making a few dietary changes to help manage those glucose levels throughout the day. And, as you've touched on, exercise is also great for people with PCOS and exercise plays into that stress response as well. I always say the best type of exercise is one that you enjoy because you're not going to stick to a routine that you hate doing. From the research, aerobic and resistance training improves insulin sensitivity and decreases the angiogen measurements in women with PCOS. But once again, if it's not something you enjoy, go do something you enjoy, because it's going to be better for your mental health and everything else as well.

Peter Lap: 14:20

Yeah, no, that's definitely something I always say. You're better off doing Zumba seven times a week than HIIT. Yeah, that's the type of exercise.

Peter Lap: 14:30

The type of exercise you can stick to is the type of exercise you kind of should be doing. Uh, everything else is is shits and giggles. Everything else is just for fun. Um, in an ideal world, there are certain ways to train, but let's be honest, training is uh, exercise is a pain in the bum sometimes. So just find something you enjoy doing. That's what you stick to. Um, it's really interesting because when you say, because these are all fairly straightforward lifestyle changes, as in yeah, add a bit of cinnamon. Uh, do a bit of headspace or whatever you know.

Peter Lap: 15:04

Yeah, there's free meditation stuff on on youtube absolutely um go for a walk and and all that sort of stuff um get that green space, that fresh air yes almost a dog.

Peter Lap: 15:18

That's basically what court is. Get yourself a dog and walk the thing um, it's, but it's a lot of the advice that I see floating about with regards to pcos is, let's say, fairly extreme. In in this approach, you can you have to completely change your lifestyle. Uh, so you go from, which assumes that people have a terrible diet to begin with, but you have to go much more towards the clean eating side of the spectrum, um, rather than making loads of small changes that stack up now the. The question is then, of course, if how long does it take before people see results from any of those sort of thing? Because if you go extreme, you can't stick to that for too long.

Court Garfoot: 16:09

Yeah, that's correct. It takes three months to make an egg. So any changes that we're looking at making hormonally and improvements we're looking at making to the cycle typically take about three months to see an improvement. So, yeah, as you're saying, if you go too hard, too soon, you're not seeing at the end of that three month period and you're not seeing the results of it.

Court Garfoot: 16:32

Yeah, um it's also, it can be really interesting. Um, like I know, like period pain actually isn't a symptom of pcos, which is a really important differentiator, because a lot of people are like I've got period pain, I must have PCOS. It's actually not a symptom of PCOS. But if you're having an increase in PMS and those kinds of cycle symptoms, looking back three months to something that changed was there a stressful life event, did you make a change in your diet can be really interesting to see what is happening now yeah, and that's fascinating, so we can recommend people.

Peter Lap: 17:13

Obviously, working with a professional is always my go-to right. I always tell absolutely, look, look, find a professional and just ask them the questions, ask them for the assistance so they can guide you through the process rather than, you know, blindly stabbing in the dark and hoping you end up with the right conclusion. But when? When would you recommend that people that start working on their PCOS so that start making dietary changes and stress changes, that they start keeping the journal from that stage, that they start keeping a journal from that stage so that they remember? Because I don't know about you, but for me, most of the clients that I work with have no idea what they felt like three months ago.

Court Garfoot: 17:56

Definitely. I'm just going to go back. I just remembered something around that making drastic changes when I was doing some research around PCOS. I was really interested to see if there was any research into the keto diet and PCOS, because it's often spoken of being high fat, low carb and, with the blood glucose issues around PCOS, I was like this is going to be really interesting. Only in extremely obese cases is keto recommended with pcos, and because in those cases it does help regulate the blood glucose levels. However, in the majority of the population, keto places too much stress on the body and then doesn't reduce the androgen levels, so by going too hard, you do risk increasing the stress level and counteracting the good work that you're doing yeah, and this really ties in with with what we mentioned earlier, wasn't it?

Peter Lap: 18:59

with regards to the you need to go high fat, high protein, low carb sort of thing, which used to be the standard advice. And I've I've I've done bits on keto before I'm I'm diet agnostic, as as I like to go. I don't, I don't care what diet people go on, as long as it's good for your health, and I, whatever floats your boat, I don't have an opinion right. Um, yeah, with regards to at least health. I mean, I, I train people for health and I care about people's health, and if they say I need to lose weight, then however you want to go about it is fine, as long as you do it in a healthy way and you don't take the Joe Rogan approach and you eat elk for three months or something like that and just supplement your way to health or take SlimFast and all that sort of stuff.

Peter Lap: 19:42

Yes yeah, but for keto. I I think a lot of people like keto because it's very simple, as in you cut out the boring bit from your plate. Um, during your cheese, yes, exactly, you add cheese and you add steak and you basically you cut out. Keto is almost for children in that. Yeah, you cut out the things you don't really want to eat and you just eat all the tasty things that you want.

Peter Lap: 20:17

That cannot, in the long run, be a healthy approach for most people. I think we can all accept that it might be great for weight loss in the beginning and it may well when you're talking about very obese people with PCOS the reason I mean in some cases. I have one client, one personal training client because I still have a little PT business who used to be 400 pounds. When he came to me he was 400 pounds like seven months ago. All that matters for that guy is weight loss, but in the beginning the best way to improve his health isn't by having it's just by getting the pounds off and getting the fats off. Keto is awesome for that, simply because you know I eat a steak, I'm full. I eat two chicken breasts, I'm full, uh, so you drop your calorie intake that way absolutely and then you have the whole faff about doing it properly.

Peter Lap: 21:16

Keto works. I've had people on before talking about keto and it works. But it's a lot of hassle to do it in a healthy way because you still need to get your vitamins and your minerals and all that sort of stuff absolutely absolutely so when you're talking inflammation because inflammation again is a really popular uh buzzword right on yeah on instagram.

Peter Lap: 21:39

it leads you, it can lead you, down some dark, dark rabbit hole. Let me, let me tell you. You start off just looking at inflammation. Then, before you know it, you're following Dr Mark Hyman, which is again, it's fine, he's not wrong on many levels and then, before you know it, the algorithm sends you down the everything is evil and that sort of thing. So, what sort of things are you looking at when you're talking about, when you're talking inflammation? Are we just talking having a few more blueberries?

Court Garfoot: 22:16

So inflammation is an immune response in the body. So we're all familiar with you've hurt your hand or your wrist and it's inflamed because the immune system is trying to protect. As a society, we currently have increased inflammation because our immune system is overreactive to a whole lot of things, and this is what we're talking about in this situation is systemic inflammation. So it's internal inflammation throughout the body, and this inflammation can be caused by foods that can cause it, like increase inflammation, which are the opposite of your anti-inflammatory foods or your inflammatory foods, and and in a standard western diet we have a lot of inflammatory foods, um, so these can include things like wheat, dairy sugar, um, I'm not sure what your, what your wheat is like in the uk, um, in australia, our wheat is very different to the wheat in europe, where it is processed differently, um, and therefore is easier to digest. So a lot of people in australia will find that they're gluten intolerant, but they can eat all the pasta in italy, um, because it is processed differently and so, yeah, it's processed differently. Ours is harder to digest, which causes more inflammation. We you know the amount of chemicals that are in our food is significantly more than there was 20 years ago and that increases toxin load in our body um, and increase that inflammation. So when we're looking to reduce inflammation, my first step is generally to take out foods that can increase inflammation in the body. So we're looking at um, wheat, dairy sugar and alcohol are my go-tos um when we're looking to reduce inflammation. And then, if we can, increasing our anti-inflammatory factors, like the blueberries with the antioxidants.

Court Garfoot: 24:22

Turmeric can be great as well as an anti-inflammatory. The dosage can be interesting. With turmeric you typically have to have quite a high amount for it to be helpful and ginger can be an anti-inflammatory in small doses. So I find a great like a tea in the morning with ginger, lemon and honey really great, easy to implement, anti-inflammatory approach to reducing that inflammation in the body. And then, yeah, taking out those inflammatory factors.

Court Garfoot: 25:00

A lot of fast food is so, like the amount of processing that goes into it, um, your fried chips, fried burgers. There's a whole lot of inflammatory factors in those that aren't great for overall health. But I am very much an advocate for there is no bad foods, so you can have foods in moderation. Like eating carrots all day. Every day is bad. Like any food is bad in excess. You can have too many carrots in excess um, you can. You can have too many carrots um, but by balancing it out and, you know, having those occasional foods occasionally you're able to manage your diet really well, balanced um and really well yeah, and that's an interesting thing.

Peter Lap: 25:48

um, because basically it was going to be one of my my questions about something you mentioned earlier. It is likely I'm not saying this is an absolute, but it is likely that things like PCOS and any sort of inflammation response the reason that there's more of it now is because our lifestyles are significantly different from the way they were 20, 30 years ago.

Court Garfoot: 26:13

Our lifestyles do not support health.

Peter Lap: 26:17

No, they really, really don't so and it's interesting a couple of things that you mentioned to change in the UK. I don't know what it's like in Australia, in the UK drinking culture is kind of an issue. British drinking culture is a real issue. It's the one thing a lot of my clients and members just. I mean obviously I deal a lot with postpartum women and God love them, right, but one or two too many want to go back to ah, I can have a glass of wine again as soon as they're medically cleared to do so.

Court Garfoot: 27:00

Yes, yeah, and I think I mean, I think our issue with that is that we use it to relax.

Peter Lap: 27:06

Yeah.

Court Garfoot: 27:07

Like we don't have appropriate and I'm going to come a bit off topic here in terms of PCOS appropriate um, and yeah, I'm gonna go a bit off topic here in terms of pcos um, but our vagus nerve is um and I don't know if you've spoken about this on the podcast before, but the vagus nerve is the connection between the brain and the digestive system, the digestive system that is connected to so many other parts of the body. So it's the vagus nerve. There's actually two of them.

Court Garfoot: 27:31

They run down either side of the neck um that are responsible for calming down after the fight or flight response and a lot of us don't have adequate um tonality is the word that's used but adequate use of that vagus nerve to be able to calm down after a stressful response.

Court Garfoot: 27:57

So we have a stressful day at work and then we take it home and then the kids say something and we haven't turned off that stress response yet, Like we're still running up here and we can't keep running up there, which is why the body tries to adapt and things happen when they're not supposed to happen. And then we have a drink of alcohol is why the body tries to adapt and things happen when they're not supposed to happen. And then we have a drink of alcohol which slows the body down. It's a depressant and, oh, we can breathe again and I feel calm again, because that's what we're relying on when we can do breathing exercises to activate the vagus nerve. We can do cold showers to activate the vagus nerve. Holding an ice pack on your chest can activate the vagus nerve. Holding an ice pack on your chest can activate the vagus nerve to decrease that stress response and help modulate that inflammation and all the other factors that go with it yeah, no, absolutely.

Peter Lap: 28:45

I always say that for most people, not everybody, but for most middle class people in the uk the glass of wine at the end of the day sort of people and you know if you're listening, you know who you are. It's almost a Pavlovian response, as in. I have a glass of wine and therefore I can relax, Rather than when you're talking about alcohol. It's a depressant and all that sort of thing, but it's almost just the act of having the wine there when you're talking about.

Peter Lap: 29:19

Alcohol is a depressant and all that sort of thing, but it's almost just the act of having the wine there, yeah, drives that relaxation much more than the physical act of drinking the alcohol, if you know what I mean. I agree, you can almost, and I also always used to say this about coffee. There are two types of coffee drinkers in the world, in my opinion. There are the people who suffer from anxiety, who just should not have coffee.

Court Garfoot: 29:43

I think it's a really bad idea, if you suffer from anxiety, to add a stimulant like coffee to it. Absolutely Especially empty stomach. The nervous system is already activating.

Peter Lap: 29:49

Let's get it going even more Exactly yes, and especially early morning.

Court Garfoot: 29:54

I need my black coffee, yeah, on an empty stomach, on an empty stomach.

Peter Lap: 29:56

It's horrible, it's on all levels. But then you have the people, the Italians of the world, so to speak, or people with that disposition to coffee. They have an espresso, a double espresso, yes, but they relax whilst drinking it. They take half an hour over a small double espresso, and this is not Starbucks-level quality it is better than that but they sit and they relax.

Court Garfoot: 30:22

They appreciate it.

Peter Lap: 30:24

And therefore they do not get the same response from the caffeine that someone who drinks that stuff in an agitated state does.

Court Garfoot: 30:36

Yes, yeah, there's a level of mindfulness in that, yeah, and I don't know what the situation is in the UK, but in Australia there's been a significant increase in probably the last 12 months in non-alcoholic drinks. Oh right, a lot more non-alcoholic. It's quite accessible now to get a non-alcoholic gin and tonic. Yeah, non-alcoholic wines have increased their quality phenomenally. Yeah, and I will quite often just take non-alcoholic drinks when I'm out, if I'm somewhere where people are drinking. So that's also an option for people, because no one can tell that you're not drinking and it still gives that pavlovian response uh people think you're having a drink.

Court Garfoot: 31:20

You're either relaxing or having a good time. Whichever way, it's going um, but there's no alcohol involved, so, um, for people who are conscious of that, that's a really good option to have yeah, and that's that's interesting that you say that, because I I genuinely hadn't even heard of non-alcoholic gin.

Peter Lap: 31:37

So I'm just having a look now, um, because, to be honest, it's been a while since I last had a drink. Because I can't. I can't be bothered. Whenever my wife wants to go out, she says let's go out for a meal. Yeah, excellent, I'll drive, because I can't be bothered taking taxis and I'm cheap. I don't want to take the bus or a train and we stay too far out to walk, so I'll drive and therefore I don't drink. But a lot of people that are going towards, because this ties in with PCOS and the inflammation response, a lot of my clients are switching to gluten-free. Yes, especially with alcohol, beer, gluten-free beer is a good thing, yes, yeah.

Peter Lap: 32:22

Now, of course, you know there's some issues around wheat and gluten for some people Not everybody but before I get dieticians writing in, because that always happens when I bring up wheat or gluten, I always find that if you don't respond well to certain foods, those are the foods you cut out of your diet, and that is a completely personal thing. Like you said, it's not a thing as a good food or a bad food, but I used to have a client who couldn't look at an apple without getting a blood sugar spike. She was fine with mangoes, she was fine with all the strawberries, all the fruits that we would associate with it, but an apple was a boom straight in there. So that's different for almost, that's different for everybody. But when you're talking I I take it that you know going gluten-free beer is still uh, you're better off going for a non-alcoholic beer, so to speak, with regards to your body's response yeah, I would say I would say so.

Court Garfoot: 33:26

Um, it's a tricky one, like with the going gluten-free, because once again, there's two types of gluten-free. You can go gluten-free and cut out gluten and be having zucchini noodles and be having salads instead of sandwiches and things like that. Or you can go gluten-free and buy gluten-free bread and buy gluten-free flour and buy gluten-free biscuits and eat your normal diet but be gluten-free flour and buy gluten-free biscuits and eat your normal diet but be gluten-free, which those commercial gluten-free products have a chemical load most often. So you do need to weigh up between the two what works for you and what works for your body.

Peter Lap: 34:09

Yeah, because what you're essentially saying, with everything that you were saying with regards to changing diet and I know this is boring to most of my listeners but we're basically going back to healthy eating from 20, 30 years ago. I mean, that's the way our parents used to eat before McDonald's came in. Absolutely, I'm old enough you're clearly not. Not I'm old enough to remember when microwave meals Became a thing in Holland as in. They appeared on television, in American television shows, and we're like, oh, this is magic. And then it came to Holland and they were all disgusting, they were all terrible For younger listeners, as in anyone under 40. Basically, microwave meals Just really, really suck. Younger listeners, as in anyone under 40, basically microwave meals used to really, really suck, and I get that.

Speaker 3: 35:01

They're better, they're tastier now but they're not much healthier than they used to be.

Court Garfoot: 35:08

And it's those convenience factors that are increasing our inflammation. We had a very interesting conversation in clinic today because one of our magnesium supplements is chocolate flavoured.

Peter Lap: 35:21

Right.

Court Garfoot: 35:21

And I had a client say can I make a hot chocolate with it? And I was like, oh, let me check that we can eat this, like I love you, I love your thinking, but let me just check this out. And so we called the rep and she was like, yep, it's fine to be heated, don't have it scalding hot. But you can heat it, but do not microwave it, because microwaving it changes the chemical structure and you will lose therapeutic benefit. I was like, okay, that's really like it's impressive that it can be heated but you can't microwave it.

Peter Lap: 35:52

Yeah, Well, this is an interesting thing. And you've got Frankie, your dog, and everybody listening to this knows that Buddy and Kitty are here. That's what that light snoring was for listeners. That's what the light snoring was in the beginning. It was just Buddy. My dogs will not eat microwave chicken, as in chicken that I cooked yesterday, that I microwaved, they're not touching it. If I just put it in a pan to warm it up or the oven, they're completely fine with it. Uh, and I'm not saying my dogs know best right, they do, but I'm not saying that. But there's a bit of a clue there with regards to what I always, uh, I always think, if um, I mean, and like, don't get me wrong, I use a microwave when it's convenient sure, I'm not anti-microwave um.

Court Garfoot: 36:41

But there was an interesting study done where they um they had some plants and one lot of plants were watered with straight tap water. The other lot of plants were watered with um water that had been microwaved and then cooled down um and the plants with the microwave water died um because that that radioactivity affected the chemical structure of the water yeah, and they'll probably, because it was heated and therefore some of the nutrients will have left and all that sort of stuff.

Peter Lap: 37:10

It's again it's a filtration sort of thing. Um yeah, with regards to the because, because when we're talking about cooking and all that sort of stuff, it's again it's a filtration sort of thing. Um yeah, with regards to the because, because when we're talking about cooking and all that sort of stuff, because it's interesting, because when you were, when you mentioned, one of your supplements is chocolate flavored that's a chat I had with somebody the other day. Uh, just out in the non-internet world, in the real world, so to speak. We're talking kefir, so we're talking about the probiotic kefir, the yogurt drink, and the most popular one.

Peter Lap: 37:40

the most popular seller in the UK is a company called Biotiful and you know that lady started up a few years ago. She was on the ball. Ten years ago kefir was for crunchy people. You had to grow it in your kitchen, right, you had the little the ball. Ten years ago kefir was for crunchy people.

Court Garfoot: 37:54

You had to grow it in your kitchen, right?

Peter Lap: 37:54

You had the little culture ball. The beads you had to add milk and all that sort of stuff to it and this lady was like no, this is going to be a thing, I'm starting up a business and she's done a wonderful job with it. But her most popular flavor is mozzarella cherry.

Court Garfoot: 38:10

Yes.

Peter Lap: 38:11

And because people do not like sour milk essentially, and that is, I mean, that's a thing in Holland. In Holland, kind of milk is a thing and we've had that for decades and the Turks have had kefir, of course, for ages. Yes, it's kind of where it comes from, that neck of the world, but in the West, so to speak. So UK, us, definitely, probably Australia as well, but In the west, so to speak, so UK, us, definitely, probably Australia as well, things have to come With a flavour To make it palatable.

Court Garfoot: 38:41

Absolutely.

Peter Lap: 38:42

Now, I so as soon as you add any sort of that type of flavoring into a commercially available product, where costs become a consideration.

Court Garfoot: 38:52

Yes.

Peter Lap: 38:53

And if you grow kefir by yourself and you make that and you throw strawberry and you blend that whole thing up, that is not the same as what they're selling in the supermarket, absolutely. So do those things, then undo the good work of the things that you're taking yeah, it's.

Court Garfoot: 39:15

It's interesting, like, in terms. We often have this conversation about salad dressing as as nutritious. Do you should? I be worried about the calories in my salad dressing. I'm like, well, if it means you're gonna eat, eat a plate of vegetables, I don't care. Like, to be honest, I don't care In terms of the kebiers and the kombuchas of the world.

Court Garfoot: 39:39

They're not usually that beneficial to your gut microbiome. And a lot of people will find that if you do have dysbiosis, so an imbalance of the bacterias in your gut microbiome, you get an upset tummy from them because your body doesn't know what to do with them. Sure, and your digestive system has to be working properly to be able to take on probiotics, because if there's too much bad bacteria, there's no. Like the house is full. Sure, like, move on, so they don't't, there's got nowhere to live. Um, so, yeah, like I don't. I don't think there's too much wrong with adding flavors to those drinks, but I'm just I don't think people are getting the benefit from them that they think they are.

Court Garfoot: 40:24

Um, the gut microbiome is really interesting when you go back to that inflammation piece that we're coming back to today. Um, because there's there's bacterias in the gut microbiome that can increase inflammation and there's bacterias there that can crave sugar. So a lot of the cravings will come from those bacterias needing sugar to survive. They're they're small, but they're very vocal, um and but. So a lot of people will think that you know, we, we know, like gut health's been a big talk for the last few years and we need to increase the good bacterias. But they don't realize that in order to increase the good bacterias, there's sometimes a need to decrease the bad bacterias.

Peter Lap: 41:11

Yes, exactly, yeah.

Court Garfoot: 41:14

And that can be a starve-off process or you can use supplements or herbs to kill them off. But that process really needs to be worked through with a practitioner because you don't want to be accidentally increasing the bad bacterias and convoluting the problem again. I haven't seen too much research into it, but I'd be interested to see if there is in the next few years, some more research into the gut microbiome and PCOS, just because the insulin resistance picture that's forming. There's a little bit of research around at the moment on the gut microbiome and type 2 diabetes. I'll be interested to see if anything develops there. There's obviously the inflammation picture. Stress impacts the microbiome, so I'll be interested to see if anything comes out there in terms of particular strains of bacteria that are associated with the hormonal picture that we see in PCOS. Estrogen, for example, is a very opportunistic hormone and so when the liver is focused on detoxifying other things out of the body, estrogen just goes around again.

Court Garfoot: 42:27

So, it builds up in the system um, and an estrogen dominant picture isn't typical of pcos. But while the liver's distracted, hormones are running rampant. So it's um. And you know, alcohol takes so much effort for the liver to digest, so as soon as we bring that into the picture, hormones go out of whack in every respect. So it'll be interesting to see if that gut microbiome picture develops around those factors that we're seeing with PCOS.

Peter Lap: 42:59

Yeah, because that's fascinating, isn't it? Because what and again apologies to all the listeners that have listened for the past 60 episodes, because I've spoken about this before it's when we're looking at normal medicine stuff, as in stuff you go to your gp for we tend to get a narrow solution, as in this is what's wrong with you. Let me treat this one single thing, and very rarely would would they take a uh, a more uh, holistic approach. So when you're talking about and and the, the kefir example and kombucha example is a perfect one in this case, because a lot of people take it not in the way that because I, like I buy kefir, I talk about it a lot. It works wonders for me, but that's because my diet overall is pretty good.

Court Garfoot: 43:47

Yes, yes.

Peter Lap: 43:49

If I have a junk food diet and I buy a bottle of coffee once a week or something like that.

Court Garfoot: 43:54

Yeah.

Peter Lap: 43:55

Or remember Yakult. Is that a thing in Australia?

Court Garfoot: 43:58

Yes, yeah.

Peter Lap: 43:59

That's been kicking around for decades, right, the hundreds of good bacteria, or the millions of good bacteria in the thing? You have your little Yakult shop, yeah, of good bacteria, and or the millions of good bacteria in the thing. You have your little yakult shop and all that sort of stuff and then you go have your burgers and your pizza and whatever. Yeah, that's, that little shop isn't doing that much for your health. Um, yeah, and it's the same with when you're talking about the, the gut biome and all that sort of thing.

Peter Lap: 44:24

I did an interview with dr yug pharma, who has has a PhD in all this microbiome stuff, so he knows what he was talking about Absolutely, and he was like, yeah, it's very clear, but your lifestyle habits determine what your microbiome is like, much more so than small, than minor interventions do. And cutting out alcohol or cutting drastically down on alcohol for uh, british listeners um, just not drinking every day, not even necessarily drinking every week, will have a much more beneficial impact on your health with regards to liver function, with regards to balance and all that sort of stuff, um, than taking a small supplement would do.

Court Garfoot: 45:11

Yes, absolutely, and I think that that's where it comes back to making those series of small changes rather than doing a drastic overhaul of the diet without addressing those environmental toxins and those stress factors that all play into that hormonal picture.

Peter Lap: 45:26

Yeah, see the comforts that we always. It's always good, sooner or later, when you talk to people that know what they're talking about, they always come back to the and this was my original point just change your lifestyle a little bit in in many ways cool. That was awesome.

Court Garfoot: 45:44

Court was anything, but yeah, it's um, yeah, I just, I think I just wanted to touch on that. It's interesting when Cool, that was awesome. Was there anything else? Yeah, I just, I think I just wanted to touch on that. It's interesting when you know, as a holistic practitioner, having the opportunity to go in depth with a client in a consult, really like cause you can't, you can't address these factors by only looking at diet or only looking at environmental factors or like only looking at the medication someone's taking. It needs to be a holistic approach, looking at all those different factors to improve the health, and it can be small changes in each area, but you need that holistic picture.

Peter Lap: 46:20

Oh no, absolutely. I completely agree. I think, and this is the difference between when I say work with a professional, I don't mean talk to your GP and I genuinely don't. And there's nothing wrong with GPs or anyone in the health system.

Court Garfoot: 46:33

No, they have their place in the health system, exactly.

Peter Lap: 46:35

And they're awesome and they know much more than I do about many, many things other than personal health. But when I'm talking about working with a professional, I mean don't try to figure this stuff out by yourself, but I mean the amount of people always say working with um because you do online consultations and all that stuff right yeah, we do, yeah, yeah, so I don't know.

Peter Lap: 47:00

I don't the amount of time that people would save by just getting a consult with you rather than googling and researching. I mean, you spent a few years studying stuff right, absolutely yeah, you, that's what you pay for people. This is, I always say, work with a professional rather than I mean. What works for your friends is awesome if it works for them, but that's not necessarily the same thing as that works for you, because your starting point is different, your environmental factors, are different. Absolutely.

Court Garfoot: 47:35

And there's also a difference in like. There's such a range of supplements, such a range of quality of supplements, the dosage, the bioavailability, so how easily they are absorbed in the body, the co-factors that you know that they come with, that are needed to absorb something in the body. It's so like I 100% recommend seeing someone who has knowledge in that area rather than trying a heap of different supplements from the chemist and nothing working. It might not be that you know that supplement's not right for you.

Peter Lap: 48:08

It just might be the wrong dose or the wrong time of day that you're having it yes, because people believe it or not, and I know a lot of people don't believe me when I said but those it really matters for stuff.

Court Garfoot: 48:17

Um absolutely I'll just chat and that's like oh, so you go.

Peter Lap: 48:22

Yeah sorry. I had this chat with somebody not that long ago where they say everybody just takes x amount of whatever medication. Um, because people don't get weighed and all that sort of stuff as much when they go to the gp. So every time my dog goes to the vet first thing they do is throw him on a set of scales and then they say he weighs 10 kilos.

Peter Lap: 48:39

That means he needs x amount of medicine yes yes, and dosage has a real I mean what and this is what I what works for your friend doesn't necessarily work for you, because you're not the same person as your friend is. You might be bigger, you might be smaller, male, female, it all matters and someone who knows what they're talking about, such as your good self, will be able to guide you through that process much, much quicker. I'll actually save you a ton of money, Definitely, Because you're not buying loads of useless stuff. And indeed it's exactly what you said.

Peter Lap: 49:15

We spoke about magnesium a lot on the podcast recently. Everybody brings up how important it is. Yeah, but if you take magnesium in too small a dose and you think, ah, this doesn't work for me, it doesn't do anything, Then it's chances are that everybody else who comes to you later on and says actually, magnesium is really good for you, I've tried that, it doesn't work and therefore you will spend years fighting something that is actually beneficial. And the time you waste and it always comes down to this for me, the time you waste is the one thing that you just can't get back. You know years. You'll know people that have been struggling with PCOS for years. Actually, they had the solution three or four years ago. They just weren't aware that they had the solution because they didn't have someone like you helping them yeah, absolutely cool, so I'm not happy.

Peter Lap: 50:13

Now, obviously, you're at court, garfield, and I will link to your website and all that sort of stuff um, in the in the notes for all the listings yeah, that's where you find it, and this you can even get a hot chocolate recipe on the website. So that's not, it's not all bad. Was there anything else you wanted to touch on?

Court Garfoot: 50:31

Was there anything else? No, that's all good. Thank you so much for having me. It's been great to chat.

Peter Lap: 50:36

Lovely. On that note, I will press stop record and, as always, press stop record is exactly what I did. Thanks very much to Court for coming on. It was absolutely wonderful. It was great talking to her. Like I said, she's the person to speak to. You can find her, uh and marry, many, many, many many places. Uh, courts, garfoot, that's c-o-u-r-t. Learn to spell peter, g-a-r-f-o-o-tcom, um, where you can basically that. That's her website. She's on LinkedIn and Instagram. I will link to absolutely everything. Like I said, it's always lovely to have someone come on the show that really knows what they're talking about and I can just be the idiot that asks all the questions, and some of them you might even want the answer to, right? I hope you found it useful. Definitely check out courtcarfordcom.

Peter Lap: 51:32

No, in the news this week this week because there was nothing interesting in the news this week. I would like quickly, I'll just mention this. You know it's Wimbledon this week. That's always nice. I hope you're enjoying Wimbledon. You know it's Wimbledon this week. That's always nice. I hope you're enjoying Wimbledon.

Peter Lap: 51:53

Tatiana Maria just won her way into the quarterfinal. You're a mother of two, 34 years old, so remarkable well done. Remarkable well done to her. It basically just shows you that you know, as I just posted on Instagram, that with the right team around you, with the right exercises, there is no reason at all why you can't be stronger postpartum than you are prenatal, why you can't at least almost be at the same level. This will be her first quarterfinal of any Grand Slam, as far as I remember, and it kind of just shows you that you know I've done something with Joe Pavey a long time ago For BBC Radio Scotland About older mums, and you know Joe also won her Commonwealth medal Gold. If I recall correctly, I think it was gold by the time she was 40 or something like that, when she was 40 years old, when she'd just given birth a little while before. That. It just shows you that if you have a right team of people around you, you do the right exercises, there is really no reason why your postpartum body cannot be at the same level of performance as your prenatal body was. In fact, in a lot of my clients cases and a lot of hpmb member cases, they find that it's stronger postpartum than it ever was prenatal. So you know, put the effort in, I hope these women, you know you catch one or two of these successes, that it's not just about aesthetics, but that you just realize that this is about performance and that these women are showing you that you know they can that, what they can do, you can do.

Speaker 3: 54:22

Thank you In the next room, over over when you're not here. My fire, when it gets cold Atmosphere Burning up when you come close. I hope you never disappear. I'll be in it till stars go, quitting even, and I'm with you. When things go dark, I'll be where you are. We can make it. If you want to, let's play this out like it's forever, ever, ever. Yeah, you and me together. Yeah, there ain't nothing better. Yeah, let's hold this like it's now or never, ever, ever. Yeah, you and me are tethered like forever, ever, ever. Yeah, I can see it with my eyes closed. I can feel you near In the next room, over over when you're not here.

Speaker 3: 55:58

My fire, when it gets cold Atmosphere Burning up when you come close. I hope you never disappear. I'll be in it. The stars go quick and even when things go dark, I'll be where you are. We can make it. If you want to Play this out like it's forever, ever, ever, you and me together, there ain't nothing better. Yeah, let's hold this like it's now or never, ever, ever. Yeah, you and me are tethered like forever, ever. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.