The problem with NMN as recommended by David Sinclair.

 This week I was asked a very interesting question;

One of my clients is reading "Lifespan" by David Sinclair. In it he states that he takes NMN and that "everybody should" (or words to that effect).

So she asked me what I thought about NMN and which, of the many supplier's, NMN she should be buying.

So I have looked into the NMN studies, the people that tend to promote it and why a "scientific" author saying things like "you should buy X supplement" is just not kosher.

I will take you through one or two studies, and various websites, and really dissect them to show you where the problem with this entire field really lies. And at the end of that, I will tell you whether you should indeed be spending hundreds of $ on this "magic" supplement.

Some of the websites below.

https://www.nmn.com/

https://novoslabs.com/david-sinclair-and-why-he-takes-nmn-and-not-nr/

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Transcript

Hey, welcome to the Healthy Postnatal Body podcast with your postnatal expert Peter Lap. That, as always, would be me today. I am talking about NMN (nicotinamide mononucleotide). You might not have heard of this, but you probably will in the future. David Sinclair mentions this in his book Lifespan, and there's a ton of stuff doing the rounds about how this is the new super supplement and whether you should take it or not. Unsurprisingly. It's rather expensive. 

One of my clients asked me about this so I did a bit of a deep dive this week and I thought I'd share with you, right. This will be one of those money saving episodes where you're thinking “maybe I should buy this particular stuff” and maybe, maybe not. You will find out whether at least you will find out whether you actually need to buy it or not. It will be a fun episode. I'll go through one or two studies and several websites and just go over everything and see what you need to do, right? It'll be fun, I promise. Here we go.

Hey, like I said, welcome to the Healthy Postnatal Body podcast. This is the episode for the 14th of November, and I hope you are very well indeed.

 Just so you know, a little bit of what's happening with the HPNB podcast; I did a couple of great interviews this week. One of them was with a PhD in microbiome, microbiology and all that sort of stuff. Who's the CEO of a Biotech Company, which is fascinating, fascinating stuff. Real scientists, real science. And yeah, I'm delighted you came on Dr. Yug Varma. You'll see his name pop up a lot. I think in the next couple of months that episode should come out next week sometime. If you like the one I'm doing today, which is about NMN, then you're going to love that one. 

This guy is so on the ball and he's excellent at explaining things and why things are the way they are, how we should take better care of our microbiome and gut biome and all that sort of stuff. It's a fascinating, fascinating interview.

Today I am basically answering a question that I was asked by one of my clients. I've got little Kitty lying here on the beds. If you hear anything in the background, then that is what that is. Speaking of background noises, by the way, very quickly. Some apologies. I had a couple of emails from people to say they could hear rustling paper and all that sort of stuff on last week's podcast. And that was just me being a Jackass. That was me forgetting that if I don't pick the microphone up, sometimes it picks up noises that I don't necessarily want to pick up because I move about a lot when I record there's a lot of button clicking, and usually I don't pick it up too much. But every now and again I forget to do what I always do and I screw it up. So apologies for that.

Today. I'm talking about NMN. Fascinating, Pete. What is NMN? Well, it is nicotinamide mononucleotide. 

Basically, NMN is what they think could be one of these new super supplements and all that sort of stuff. One of my clients is currently reading Life Span by David Sinclair, which is a remarkably popular book. David Sinclair is one of those anti-aging scientists. I mean, he's a professor at Harvard, I believe. He's a clever chap. And he's, by all accounts, he's a very solid scientist. He's also an excellent salesperson though. And that's why we have to be a little bit careful when we listen to the people that say you can reverse aging and all that sort of thing. But anyway, she's reading that book and in the book, he talks about his daily routine. I haven't read it by the way. I'm not going to either, just in case you’re thinking; “Pete, do you have time to read this stuff?” No, I don't. But anyway, in that book, he says that he takes a supplement called NMN, and he basically has that with his porridge in the morning or something like that. And “everybody should be taking that”. And that's quite a bold statement. Everybody should be taking that. And I’ve had a look. This client comes to me and she says to me, “Can you find me a good supplier for NMN?” I'm going to trip over that a lot this episode just so you know it's coming. I've tripped over it all day. She says, “Can you find me a good supplier of that?” And I had a look, I had a quick Google. You find the price for this stuff is anywhere between, like, £100 to £200 per 100 grams. And that's expensive, right? That's an expensive supplement, considering whey protein and all that sort of stuff is like £30 for a five kilogram bag. And most other supplements, including Quercetin and all those sort of things are significantly cheaper.

 So 100 to £200. That’s a lot of money to spend on a supplement. So I said, Well, I don't know. I need to look into this first. 

So that's what I did this week. I went a quick look into everything and I came across one or two studies and I thought I shared that with you because I know a lot of you might well be reading the same books as my client is and might well be thinking, “Do I need to spend money on this?”

This is a sort of supplement that's going to crop up a lot around about New Year's, when the Daily Mail starts publishing more and more health articles or New Year's resolutions and all that sort of stuff. So I thought; let's look into this first, have a look at some studies, have a look at what shows up when you try to look into this sort of stuff. 

So basically, I Googled NMN studies. Does NMN work? That's what I mean. It's going to be a nightmare. Transcripts will be a nightmare for this as well. NMN studies, and you get a ton of ads at the top. And then you get the NCBI study that comes up. So we click on the link. That's what we do. 

So “the science behind NMN-A stable, reliable, NAD+ activator and anti-aging molecule”. Basically the NAD+ sort of stuff. When you take NMN, it is rapidly absorbed and then converted to NAD+ is what they're saying here. And then it comes up with the next line saying, “in numerous studies, supplementation with NMN has increased NAD+  bio-synthesis, suppressed age-related, adopt tissue inflammation, enhance insulin secretion and insulin action, improved mitochondrial function, improved neuronal function in the brain and more. Here we look at the science behind NMN and it's stability and blah, blah, blah”. I will link to the study, of course, I will link to the paper. 

And that's an interesting thing. Let's go back a little bit, though, because I don't know if you know what are NAD+ levels. What are they? NAD+ is nicotinamideaninecleotide, right? Which is a coenzyme, basically. That's all that is. And don’t ask me to explain that. I don't know what the fuck that is, but I do know is how to spot bullshit in a study. Right? 

So here it says….. And this is a weirdly written bit of work. It says here, “Across the kingdom of life, an increase in intracellular levels of NAD+ triggers shifts that enhance survival,”. 

Okay, that's a weird phrase. Okay, fair enough. “By middle age, our NAD+ levels have plummeted to half that of our youth. numerous studies have demonstrated…” and this line is important. When you read a paper, this sort of stuff is important.

 “Numerous studies have demonstrated that boosting NAD+ levels increases insulin sensitivity, reverses mitochondrial dysfunction and extends lifespan.” 

Now let me go over that again. “Numerous studies have demonstrated that boosting NAD+ levels increases insulin sensitivity.” Okay. And then you can break that down. Numerous levels have demonstrated that not those results increases reverses mitochondrial dysfunction and extends lifespan. So boosting Nat plus levels, extends lifespan. That's what that sentence says. And it says there are numerous studies to back cut up. 

Let's have a look at that. Because if you write a paper that gets published on NCBI, you have to back that up with footnotes. That's what they're for. You find that there are two. So the author of this thing, and we'll come back to him as well has found two studies. But two is not numerous.

Right. The definition. And I've looked this up because I'm a Jackass. The definition of numerous. The dictionary definition is “great in number.” Now, two isn't great in number. Maybe for some things. The Cambridge English Dictionary has it as “a whole heap”, right? “100,000, million” and one “a whole lot”, “above and beyond”. Two isn't above and beyond. Two isn't a hundred. Do you know what I mean? Numerous isn't two, right. But maybe he only has to supply two for not. 

So let's look at those studies because they must be sound studies if he’s linked to them. Right? Right. So footnotes ten and eleven. There we go. Click on the thing and that's the nice thing about NCBI. Of course, it's very easy to click because it takes you straight to the study. One of the studies, footnote 11. And like I said, I will link to the original study and you can basically follow the same thing I am. “Targeting NAD+ metabolism as interventions for mitochondrial disease”. 

This is studied by several PhDs, and this was published in 2019. So again, a relatively new one, and it talks about Leigh syndrome, which is according to this mitochondrial disease characterized by neurological disorders, metabolic abnormality and premature death.

 That's quite something, right? I mean, that is a horrible fucking illness. Now, the introduction, the results and all that sort of stuff they are linked. But the main thing there is and we'll come back to this study because they've used this on a lot of stuff with regards to NMN promotion. NMN supplement… From the results. “NMN supplementation extended lifespan of mice”

Which is interesting, which is interesting, right? Because “it increased extended the lifestyle of the mice (Ndufs4-KO mice) by approximately two fold. “median lifespan 110 days versus 60 days”. 

However, and this is important, this is why I'm so loud at the moment. “The benefits of NMN appear to be partial as you grow for body weight remains stunted after NMN treatment.”

So this study that Humpty Dumpty wrote, or Humpty Dumpty linked to (And we’ll come to Humpty Dumpty later)  says that there's a benefit in mice, so we don't yet know whether that translates to people. Right. And then they say “the positive effect of NMN in those extending of lifestyle span is only partial”, So they don't know they don't know yet what percentage that is, but they do know it's partial. So for the author, Christopher Shade, PhD. and we'll come to him in a little bit, to claim that “numerous studies have demonstrated that boosting NAD+ levels increases insulin sensitivity, extends lifespan”. 

No, no that is not the case at all. In fact, it is very much not the case. There's nothing to back that statement up. If maybe if he’d said “in mice, numerous studies have demonstrated that this happened in mice”. Maybe then we can have a debate. There's not a single study done on humans that shows that this is the case. Not one that you will find, not a single one. That's a problem, right? 

We have to stop pretending that stuff in mice is the same as in people. Scientists cannot write papers like this. This is remarkably sloppy sort of Authorship. And as you can tell from my voice, this drives me up the wall because I'm not even a PhD, scientific PhD holder. I have a PhD, but not in this stuff. But I do know how to read the paper. 

And this is a poorly written one which immediately makes me doubt the validity of it and why this is the top paper listed when you Google this stuff. Right.

 And we'll come to that. So there isn't “numerous studies”. There is one study that links to that says that this extend to life span in mice or “boosting NAD+ levels extends lifespan in mice”, but they don't know to which extent because they think the effect is only partial. And of course, more research is required before we can even translate that to humans. 

And I've gone over a lot of studies over the past few years. I talk about a lot of studies where I talk about the promise things show, like such as Omega-3s  and all those other stuff on mice and everything. “Hey, this could potentially have an effect on people”. But there's a difference from me saying “this study in mice is interesting, and it could potentially have an effect on people” versus somebody claiming in a paper that “numerous studies have shown this effect” without saying this is in mice, and this will be interesting to study in people. Right. So anyways, I don't want to get caught/ hung up on that because there's more to look at. Unfortunately. The other study there when it talks about increasing insulin sensitivity. If you link on that one, they have it here.

PubMed article….”Is of Increased interest, blah, blah blah”. That's basically all it doesn't say anything with regards to what the benefit of taking NMN is. It just says 

“This review considers current knowledge of NAD(+) metabolism in humans and microbes, including new insights into mechanisms that regulate NAD(+) biosynthetic pathways, current use of nicotinamide and nicotinic acid as pharmacological agents, and opportunities for drug design that are directed at modulation of NAD(+) biosynthesis for treatment of human disorders and infections.”

 This, again, does not link to anything of value with regards to backing up that original claim of the only study that you would probably come across. 

And let's be honest, that article that I'm linking to looks quite convincing. So like I said, it's just not quite right. I'm sorry. I took one sentence and basically deconstructed that. And you can already tell that there are problems with this. And this is just not how you write a decent paper. 

So let's have a look at the guy who wrote this. Christopher Shade PhD, and Christopher has been a very busy boy. He writes a lot of stuff, and you Google his name… He comes up an awful lot. 

Now. Christopher Shade is a,..basically has a PhD and definitely true. He specializes in heavy metal toxicity and all that sort of stuff and detoxing and all that sort of thing. There's a lot of YouTube clips of him holding not lectures, but like Ted talks and all that sort of stuff. Conference talks and small lectures. And he definitely seems to know what he's talking about with regards to some of these things, as in he knows all the right phrases to use. 

But some things are just not quite right with Christopher. And this is kind of the problem. He has more than a whiff of a snake-oil salesman about him. So I've linked to another one of his things because that's what I do then, right. I'll Google and again we found NCBI. And this is “Integrative medicine A clinicians journal” in conversation with Christopher W Shade  PhD about immune support. 

And this is about Covid. And there's some interesting things in this. Let me show you how reliable Doctor Shade is, because let's give him his due he's got a PhD.

“As of talking with just Doctor Shade.” This was from April 2020. “As of talking with Dr. Chris Shade the virus had infected over 50 000 US citizens. This has forced quarantine efforts in many parts of the country and shut down much of the US economy.”

Then you read this whole thing and he basically talks a bit about boosting your immune system, as in strengthening your immune system. He doesn't use the word boost, I don't think. Which is a good thing because that's a problem.. So he talks about zinc and getting your fresh fruit in getting your vitamin C and all that sort of stuff. Right? 

So the article is interesting because some of the questions are asked. So see we've all had a lot of experience now with regards to Covid and what should actually happen and what Dr. Fauci recommended and what other health clinicians that are expert in the field recommended. 

And now compare that to what Doctor Shade said. So IMCJ. That is the integrated medicine, blah blah blah Journal. So right now, this is the last bit because they talk about bumping up stuff and blah, blah, blah, immune support and all that sort of thing. “Right now they say the elderly population is the most impacted.”

 So strange thing; “Right now they say”, right? Yeah the elderly population was the most impacted, you jackasses.  That's the question asked. 

The answer; “Yeah, you know what, let me bring something up, and this is for the people who are around a lot of other people, and the elderly population, we’re all in… hygiene is a huge thing right now, and what do we wash all the time? Our hands.

But the virus is propagating in the upper respiratory tract and it’s spreading itself through there, and so the nose, in fact, where do they swab, tip of the nose, it’s just loaded with viruses. So the nose and the mouth and throat are where this is all going on, and so I think that we should be making more nasal rinses with antimicrobial compounds. And in fact, I just did a little video for practitioners saying, all right, you’ve got silver sprays, (silver sprays, WTF) you can use things like artemesinin emulsion and EDTA, some of the mixes like Biocidin. Get some of these things that are anti-microbial, add them into a saline spray and have people washing their nose with these things; just like we take cleaning our hands all day, why aren’t we doing that with our nose and oral rinses with our mouth? And so we have all the tools to do those kinds of things and that’s the kind of hygiene we should promote more.

Right? Think about that people. When is the last time? When is the only time over the past 18 months that you had a serious docto,r who knew what they were talking about, telling you to wash and rinse your nose in your mouth. At all. It's never come up, right? But this guy who's heavy on that sort of stuff, he said at the start of the thing, that that's what you needed to do. Right. Then they ask him to wrap up. “Where do you see this thing going? What do you see? Short term, midterm solution.”

The answer; “Short term is to get everybody's immune system in good shape.” So he's obviously right. “So just saying that they resist it means your immune system reads it, sees it, makes antibody to it. So the more people we have who contacted, but don't get sick, that's the more herd immunity that we generate in the population and the less people that become ill become a drain on the healthcare system. And the people that do get it, we have to make sure they don't get the really negative ramifications of the infection.”

Now comes the interesting bit ..again, because this shows you.. drops into the mind of Dr. Shade, and “then long term, we have to learn who did best on which treatment. So second time around, we know how to manage it that much better until we've generated enough herd immunities that it never has a big outbreak again.”

Think about that people. Think about that just for a little bit. It sounds right. Almost, doesn't it? And then you remember what we've lived through? 18 months of lockdowns and twelve months of lockdowns depending where you are. New strain after new strain. Alpha came out, Delta came out, Delta plus came out. Herd immunity was obviously scrapped very early on in the UK because it just isn't a thing when it comes to COVID, without at least vaccinating everybody and all that sort of thing. But the main thing here in that sentence is “so that it never comes back again”.

 The last sentence. So there is a man talking about respiratory illness, which is COVID, which is flu-like in all its ways, never coming back again. So imagine someone said to you,” if we just wash everything and boost our immune system, the flu will never come back again”. You’d think; “This guy's out of this fucking mind” Pardon, my French. This guy is insane. 

That is because he is. That is just not how Covid works. Right? We know this now, but we already knew this because the experts already knew this because COVID 19 wasn't the first illness of its kind. Right? So that is the guy who has written. That's what he says about Covid. That is the guy who has written the top Google search result study on NMN. This is a problem because this guy is clearly not the most reliable. Again, just to show you another example, if you go on Google Doctor Christopher Shade, some of his stuff comes up.

He's a very prolific writer. He also gets interviewed a lot on podcasts and all that. And one or two of the podcasts they say “sponsored by Quicksilver Scientific”. 

Then they don't say anything else. Now the podcast that he appeared on, and they are on YouTube. so you can just Google this and you come across this, says “sponsored by Quicksilver Scientific”. Now Google Dr. Christopher Shade again and see who the CEO of Quick Silver Scientific is.

For it is Dr. Christopher Shade. So this guy sponsors his own interviews on podcast without telling you that his company is the one promoting the podcast. This is just self promotion. This is really quite bad form because it's essentially paid for advertising because he sells stuff, right? This guy always sells stuff. 

So; if I come on, you don't know who I am and I’m on a podcast. I say I’m on the Joe Rogan podcast. I'll never get on there so it's a safe example. And he goes, “this thing responded brought to you by healthypostnatalbody.com And then I talk about how amazing everything is, andall the things you need to buy without telling you that I am not independent from healthypostnatalbody.com.

I am healthypostnatalbody.com.

That is pretty bad form within the scientific community. You cannot simply do that. That is really just not credible. So Dr. Christopher Shade, author of that study that I just read out, is just not a great writer of papers. He writes a lot, but he's not a great one. And he's not reliable. He's not trustworthy when it comes to that sort of thing. 

He has had some really strange statements. And like I said, you always have to specify a couple of things; That you're the one paying for stuff. Or do you have a conflict of interest in when you do interviews and all that sort of stuff? And you cannot say that studies in mice are the same as people. You just can't do it.

So now look at some other things because some of you might say, “Pete, I never read the study. I don't give a shit. I just Google NMN and I find what comes up”. And then, as I close one or two pages. So let's have a look at some other things that you come across. 

So you Google NMN and you find this whole website called NMN.com and it says “metabolic benefits of NMN shown for the first time in humans”.

That sounds good, doesn't it? That sounds good. You can tell I'm getting excited by this. I love a podcast like this, to be honest. I don't mind if you've already switched off by now. 

But the study that that article links to; because first of all, we have to be a little bit. This is “the official info source for nicotinamide mononucleotide”. So this is NMN. com website, which is, of course not neutral. These guys are selling NMN or at least are promoting it. 

That is just what they do. But at least they're bold about it, you would think “metabolic benefits of NMN shown for the first time in humans.” 

Let's have a look at that study, because again, “is there really?” No. 

the authors have nothing to disclose. And the abstract. And again, I'll link to the article, this report, “Effectiveness of NMN on Human health show that increases blood cell, NAD+ levels and improves muscle insulin sensitivity and structure in age pre diabetic women.”

 So first of all, they've only tested this on women between ages of 55 to 75 who were overweight, and pre diabetic.

“After the treatment course, they found that NMN significantly increased NAD+ levels in blood cells that are also crucial components of the immune system. Although NMN treatment did not elevate NAD+ levels in skeletal muscle, it did significantly increase levels of NMN metabolic byproducts. This suggests that NMN was being converted to NAD+ and that the skeletal muscle utilized the NAD+ at a rapid pace so that NAD+ levels did not increase.” 

Yeah but you didn't find that.(it suggests it!)

Right. So they have another look at the insulin sensitivity and all this other stuff.

 Does this sound familiar? “Insulin sensitivity, reversing mitochondrial stuff. It's the same thing. It's the mice!” So it's very simple. So what does that study actually say? Well, the senior investigator of that study; “Although our study shows a beneficial effect of enemy in skeletal muscle”. We don't know that really 100% yet. But there you go. “It is premature to make any clinical recommendations based on the results from our study.”

So what are we talking here? That's quite a big sort of “caveaty” sort of thing to do. And again, I will link to this particular thing as well, because it's an important one to come across. This is from the guys that promote NMN cannot find a single study that tells you this stuff definitely works.

Right. And they're asking you to spend £100 to £200 on the supplement. This is genuinely this is quite a pickle right?

Now when you come across other sites. So you Google David Sinclair, NMN, and you find that you come across Novoslabs, you come across various sites;  Novoslabs who again sell supplements and they say weird things. 

They say weird things on their website. They say, for instance, with absolute.. there's a lot of certainty in these statements. 

So they talk about David Sinclair and how Professor has for decades researched aging, blah blah blah. He didn't write this particular article. They're just using his name for Google for Google search.

 Professor Sinclair is also famous not because of his unapologetic view on aging. He believes it's possible not just to slow it down, but even to partially reverse it. Right. 

And this is interesting because “this can make sense, given that in recent years, scientists have found that it's possible not just to slow down aging, but to actually reverse the aging process. For example, through epigenetic reprogramming, scientists were able to make old mice young again and again”

 We click on the link and it takes you to a cell.com study. Right. And then you find again, we talk on mice, right. And you find that actually it doesn't make anything young again.

That is not at all what they’re saying!

Let me bring up the line that I thought was the most interesting from the study.

It doesn't say that at all. Let me bring up this. Jesus, Pete. Summary; Introduction Results..blah, blah blah.

Summary Here we go. Sorry about that. “Aging is a major risk factor for many human diseases. Invitro studies have demonstrated cellular reprogramming to pluripotency reverses cellular age. The alteration of the aging process through reprogramming has not been directly demonstrated in Vivo. Here we report the partial reprogramming, the short term cyclic expression of blah blah, blah prolongs lifespan in a mouse model of premature aging. Similarly, expression promotes recovery from metabolic disease and muscle injury in older white-type mice. Establishing In vivo platforms to modulate age associated epigenetic marks may provide further insights into the biology of aging.”

 So it says nothing here about. “Yeah, we cracked it” right?

Admittedly that is not how a good study would say it anyway, but they're talking about this improved regeneration in the abstract. But the study and the summary just does not really back that up. It backs up prolonged lifespan in a mass model of premature aging. Right? So it makes you maybe live healthier for longer, for sure.

But that's not the same as reversing aging, right? It's a strange. Again, it's a strange phrase to use, because that's what they're selling you.

Anyways; NMN and all that sort of stuff I'm talking about. 

David Sinclair’s habit on the Novoslabs sort of website. But again, it just says “David Sinclair seems to believe that NNN is better than NR. And indeed, recent research seems to support this.”

Again, they're not linking to any of that sort of stuff. Again, David Sinclair is taking this stuff and he's not endorsing these supplements. He's just saying” I'm taking the shit because I think it's good for me” in the same way that I do with Kefir. I feel better for it. I believe this works. 

There is nothing really to back this up with regards to NMN, and I'm really getting annoyed that I keep tripping over that. But there's nothing really to back up that NMN works.

All the studies, all the papers written on it tend to come from sources that are not necessarily reliable with this particular field. They come from people that have something to sell, which is a real problem. All these things have been tested on mice, and there's just not any…there have been no studies done on people, no worthwhile studies with any worthwhile conclusions. 

And that is just a real problem. Before you part with $100, £100 or £200 or whatever they're charging you for it. You should at least know that it works!

And then take into account that if you look at the supplement industry and you realize that it's largely unregulated, as in, these supplements are only tested to make sure it doesn't kill you. 

They are not tested for the clinical benefit. There's nothing to back up. So this is not medication. You really have to ask yourself whether you should take this stuff. In my humble opinion, it's a colossal waste of money.

If you have a couple of hundred quid to throw out the problem… You'll never know whether you ever benefit from it or not. 

That's the beauty of these life extending things, right? You don't know whether you would lift 80 or 90 or 100. And if you find that you're in your 40s, you start taking the supplement as David Sinclair is doing. He's throwing a whole lot of supplements down his gob with his porridge in the morning. If you believe that stuff. 

Then you don't know what age you're going to be anyways. We're looking for miracle cures where there are none. 

Healthy diet, exercise, lot of outdoor air, less stress, more sleep, all that sort of stuff. Get those basics right. And then maybe look at supplements. If your basics are not right, then you're taking supplements. You don't know whether they work or not. They're doubtful that they work. 

The science isn't there to prove that these things work and you will never know whether they worked for you or not. That is the beauty of antiaging. I can sell you an antiaging powder tomorrow, and I'll say this will add ten years to your life. 

What do you know? You take it for 10, 15, 20 years. You die at 80, right? Now, maybe you would have died at 70!

But the thing is, you won't notice the difference. That is the thing and stuff that genuinely gets people younger. You know David Sinclair talks about this in interviews, I caught one or two bits of interviews from me. He said I'm 50, but biologically, I'm 40 because of exercise. So am I. I'm 47 and biologically, I'm 38 or something like that. Who gives a shit? How do I do that? I eat well and I exercise. Not because I take a million pills. You Jackass.

Apologies. And like I said, David Sinclair, I have nothing against the guy per se. I think there's a lot of, he's talking about a lot of interesting things and he knows what he's talking about. But there's too much sales happening in this other stuff and we have to move away from the sales element a bit.

“Yawn” Apologies. I'm boring myself now. 

When we're talking scientific studies, we have to remove the sales element from it. And we have to recognize that David Sinclair wrote a book and then he's selling the book. And I think he started up 17 companies or something like that. So he's selling a lot of stuff through a lot of different companies.

 It doesn't mean he's wrong. It just means that we have to be careful with who we listen to. And when it comes to Dr. Christopher, this Christopher Shade. Yeah dude. Listen to experts in the field, or at least be cynical enough to…Like myself. I'm not an expert in the field, not at all. But then again, I'm not the one telling you to buy stuff. People who tell you to buy stuff should be experts in the field. I tell you to exercise post-natal because that's what I do. I tell you to look after your health because that's what I do, and that's what I'm an expert in. 

And I'm not telling you to buy £100 or £200 supplement when there is no evidence whatsoever to back up that this stuff works. Unless you're a mouse, of course, in which case it might well work. More research is required, as the saying goes.

No in the news this week because I've been waffling for 40 minutes now because of my accent and because of the subject matter, this is going to be a bugger to transcribe. Click like and subscribe by the way, and then subscribe to podcast and do whatever you need to do. It would be much appreciated. Send this to everybody who was talking to you about NMN. Who is talking to you David Sinclair's book and just say, “Listen, have a listen to this” or if you’re deaf and find the transcript, have a read through it and just say, “listen, this stuff is not something I need to spend my money on.“ 

£100 a month. £200 a month, because that's roughly how long these things last. It's a lot of money to throw at the problem when there are other things to throw money at. Anyway, that's me done for another week. Here's a new bit of music. A bit rockier, as Wendy sneezes in the background. That's me done for the week. You take care of yourself. We'll be back next week with more interviews. Have a great one. Bye. Now