The Healthy Post Natal Body Podcast
The Healthy Post Natal Body Podcast
Improving Indoor Air Quality: A Key to Healthier Living. Interview with Michael Rubino
Did you know air in our homes and workplaces can significantly affect our health? This episode promises to transform your understanding of indoor air quality and its impact on wellbeing, with our special guest Michael Rubino, founder of HomeCleanse.
We'll reveal the shocking fact that it only takes 24-48 hours for mold and bacteria to sprout and flourish, and why opening windows and dusting might not always be enough.
We dive into the ins and outs of maintaining a clean environment, discussing the importance of regular air filter changes and effective water and humidity management. Exploring the use of botanical, safer cleaning products, we equip you with the knowledge to reduce dust and prevent the rapid growth of harmful microorganisms. Additionally, learn the key role air purifiers can play in creating healthier surroundings and why it's essential to be mindful of the particle size in your air.
We wrap up our discussion by emphasizing the significance of routine home inspections for air quality control. What are the telltale signs of air quality issues? How to identify their sources and keep track of changes over time? We've got you covered. Remember, our environment and our health are interconnected - maintaining good air quality at home is not a luxury, it's a necessity. So don't miss this episode! Tune in, enlighten yourself, and start creating a healthier living environment today.
You can find Michael online
His website
The HomeCleanse website
And his YouTube Channel
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Playing us out this week; "On top" by Grace McCoy
Hey, welcome to the Healthy Po NATO Body Podcast with your Pulse NATO expert, peter Lap. That, as always, will be me. This is the podcast for the 15th of October. You know, date before music means I have a guest on this week. I am talking to Michael Rubino. Michael is the founder HomeCleanse .
Peter Lap:We're talking air quality this week how the quality of air impacts your health and that can be anything from a dusty home. How that hurts your health to mould and why that's a problem. How you can create a healthy environment in your house and how you can do that by not spending an absolute fortune. This is a wonderful chat. We're talking about everything from dehumidifiers and air quality control, how you can spot what the problem is with a lot of these air quality measuring devices and all that sort of stuff. You can advertise a lot online, why a lot of them don't work.
Peter Lap:How you should really measure the quality of air in your house. Why opening a window alone and dusting which is what I do tends not to be enough, especially if you're living in a slightly damp house, and all that sort of stuff. We're going through everything you ever wanted to know about air quality. I love talking to Michael. I think I've picked up more practical tips from this discussion, from this chat, than I have from many a chats in the past. So you're going to want to stick around for this Without further ado. Here we go. I just regularly air the house out, open the windows up. Doesn't that mean the air in my house is clean and fine to breathe?
Michael Rubino:Well, I think that depends. I mean it could be, but it certainly could also not be. That depends if you have little microorganisms growing inside your walls, like mold or bacteria, which happen in water damage and damp buildings.
Peter Lap:Yeah, so that's pretty much half the buildings in the United Kingdom, right?
Michael Rubino:Even in the US. It seems to be a global problem here.
Peter Lap:So how common is that really, and how much of an issue is it really? With regards, to, what effect does it have on people's health?
Michael Rubino:Well, I think how prevalent it is is one of the most important parts of the conversation because, based upon the largest home survey ever done in North America in 1994 by John Spangler, he found that 80% of the homes had history of water damage visibly and then 50% of those homes had mold growth. And typically when you have water it's going to support microbial lights. You're going to get mold, you're going to get bacteria and we know bacteria is not great for us. And one of the biggest hot hot button contentious items is how bad is mold for us? And what we're seeing here in recent studies is that it could influence autoimmune conditions which are plaguing the world.
Michael Rubino:We see in the US especially, chronic illness accounts for 50% of the US population. When we look at it from a world perspective, 60% of the global population deals with chronic illness. And to what extent these buildings play into that effect we don't know the full extent, but I suspect, because we have never been sicker as a global population than we are today, I suspect it has a great deal to do with it because, with advancements in medicine and technology, how can we keep getting worse as a civilization? And I think it's because we breathe 20,000 breaths per day. We're breathing in a lot of this stuff and we're not aware of it. It's not on our radar.
Peter Lap:Yeah, no, that's a good point because I did an interview quite a while ago with a home toxins expert called Theresa Thornton Hills, Thornton North and something like that. I'll look it up T Her name was. She did the whole thing, which she also mentioned. We have a lot of aerosol diffusers and all that sort of stuff in our house. The science about those things is fairly clear. I think these things are not good for us All those sprays and all that sort of thing Because I had to look up quite a bit for that particular subject afterwards.
Peter Lap:So how much of an issue do you think those things are? So we were talking mold. We're talking just general, because I actually live next to an airport. I live in a beautiful, wide expanse of greenness, If you just ignore the big airports directly next to. When I say I live next to an airport, I'm not joking. I mean I can see the planes take off from our window. So when you because I obviously had a look on the home cleanse website and those are air purifiers and a lot of people in my area actually have air purifiers in their house and all that sort of stuff Do those things also help with that type of stuff?
Michael Rubino:Well, it helps reduce the amount of particles you're breathing in. So it helps. Yeah, I think one of my goals is always helping people diagnose if they have problems in their home from water damage, because those little microorganisms mold and bacteria they take over very rapidly and the amount of particles that they can create are so small and can be so abundant in our environment that it really enters the body rather easily through inhalation. And a lot of the research shows that the anything smaller than 10 microns that enters the body in particle size can wreak havoc on the immune system. Because it's so small it bypasses our self-defense mechanisms. We could also get deposits on the lungs which can cause pathogenic effects. So we know a lot around this with respects to particle size.
Michael Rubino:But then with mold, right Mold can be toxogenic, it can be pathogenic, it can be allergenic. So different types of molds that could be growing in our environment can cause different effects. And then of course we have different genetics and epigenetics and diets and everything that we do to be healthy, so these things also affect us differently. When it comes to air purifiers, we're reducing the amount of particles we're breathing in. That is helpful, especially if we live next to an airport, which, of course, is going to have a lot of particle emissions from all these planes taking off and landing.
Peter Lap:Yeah, exactly, especially, some of my clients live down the road and that's pretty much underneath the flight path. There's some of my personal training clients there and they've got everything in their house. They've got the air purifiers and the lights and all that sort of stuff. So it's interesting that you mentioned the different type of molds and all that sort of stuff, and I think that's just how do people actually other than black mold, which we all recognize in the shower, right, how do people actually spot, how do people know they have a problem with that stuff in the house.
Michael Rubino:So one of the best ways to identify if you have a problem is actually by testing your dust.
Peter Lap:Right.
Michael Rubino:I know it sounds weird because we're so accustomed to thinking if we have an air quality problem, we should test our air. But what's really interesting about testing the air is you're not actually testing the air. You're testing what's in the air. You're testing for particles that are in the air, and what do we know about particles? Well, gravity is going to force them to the floor, and so collecting dust from various parts of your home can tell you what you're actually breathing in by what's in your dust.
Michael Rubino:Now, remind you how much dust is in our air, because I know every single one of us is sat near a window on a sunny day and has seen the light refract off the dust and said, oh my goodness, that's a lot of dust in my air and you're just breathing that in constantly. And so by analyzing what is in our dust, we then get an understanding of what we're breathing in consistently, when we take a breath 20,000 times per day. And that is the best way to do it. And for those in North America, I developed a test called the Dust Test, which uses PCR technology and, utilizing DNA specific analysis, we can really understand to the spec what exactly is there, whereas air testing it's microscopy. We're looking under a microscope. We're trying to determine what is this and what does it look like, and how much is there, by counting it. Dna specific analysis is way more accurate and a much better screening tool to see what we're breathing.
Peter Lap:Right, cool. So when you're talking DNA specific, I'm talking about DNA of whatever mold Exactly.
Michael Rubino:So we all know what PCR technology is, I think.
Peter Lap:This is DNA, yeah.
Michael Rubino:So it is the same technology that analyzes the DNA that we used in COVID right Understand if we have these virus particles inside of our body.
Peter Lap:Yeah, and then because I'm just clarifying just for people listening, and I think DNA test people automatically almost assume. I always used to. When people say DNA test, they're talking about people's DNA. I'm like why are you testing my DNA first? You're testing for mold. It makes a lot more sense if you're testing the DNA of what particles you're finding.
Michael Rubino:Exactly.
Peter Lap:So where can I mean this is really things in order. Where can people actually pick up one of those PCR tests or where can they actually order them? I take it home, cleanse, take care of them.
Michael Rubino:Well, if you go to homeclensecom, you'll find it. If you want to get there even faster, you can go to the dusttestcom directly. That's cool, and that's where you get the PCR analysis from.
Peter Lap:That's cool, because that is, I'm guessing, the starting point for all this sort of stuff. Right, you start by determining whether you have a problem or not.
Michael Rubino:And here's why because you want the data to understand what you're actually breathing in. And what's interesting about this test? I can tell you is it 10 times higher? Is it normal? Is it 100 times higher, 1,000 times higher? And this is really good information because then you can call someone who might be an expert in mold or dampness right To say, hey look, these are the species that seem to be really elevated.
Michael Rubino:I'd like your help in helping me identify where they're actually coming from, and I think that's really crucial because a lot of people they make mistakes when they hire folks to try to come in and evaluate if their home has a problem. Maybe they suspect they have mold, maybe they're not feeling well and they think there's something going on in the house. A lot of these guys will come in and they'll just take air samples in the center of the room and bringing another COVID reference up. What do we learn from COVID? People typically travel about three to six feet from the source emanation point, especially particles like this, microorganisms that are so small, so light. Now, if that's the case, if I set up a pump in the center of the room and it's three to six feet, one to two meters.
Michael Rubino:What are we looking at? Well, it's typically going to be too far away from where a problem would be, which is usually on a wall right To pick it up. And so now you have information, you take that to the person who can help you inspect your home to figure out where these problems are coming from. You say these are where this is what is elevated. Help me figure out where it is. And then, when they are doing their thing, we can correlate that data and say, oh, yep, we found the toxic black mold. They're up. Yep, we found the high levels of aspergillus or penicillium. And now we have a complete puzzle of how we need to address our homes to make them healthier.
Peter Lap:Yeah, because that's a good point, because I had a look before we started this on a quick look at people who specialize in this sort of stuff in my area and indeed that seems to be the way they do it. They do an air test and all that sort of stuff and that's made me think that, probably out of guess, indeed COVID related sort of thing that most of my downpishes in the house would be in certain areas of the house the shower, the basement, how to push the dishwasher if you have a remarkably filthy dishwasher and you only ever use it on like the 30 degrees Celsius degree, the eco setting and all that sort of stuff. Right, and I'm thinking, at least for me and as I always tell people, I'm just a middle-aged guy, so for me germs were never a problem until people started pointing out that how filthy a dishwasher actually gets. So you've picked up a piece of how do people do a PCR test themselves.
Michael Rubino:Super simple. You won't believe how simple. So you're going to get a cloth almost looks like a Swiffer cloth, if you've ever seen one of those. Yeah, and you're going to go around your house, random rooms and you're going to collect dust and it's that simple.
Michael Rubino:You're going to collect dust from your bedrooms and your kitchen and any room inside the house that you typically spend time in. And what it's going to do is it's going to actually tell us how many particles per milligram of dust across 36 different species of mold, and it could also look at mycotoxins, which are toxins produced by certain species of mold, and it can also look at endotoxins, which are toxins produced by bacteria as bacteria dies off and because of that, we get to understand the average of what we're being exposed to.
Peter Lap:Yeah, and that's an interesting point that you raised there. So what is just for people somewhat concerned and they get a piece out, what is the average that you think? What is acceptable level of mold and bacteria that you find us? Because if I look at my shower and I see a spot of black mold or dark colored molds, you know messing up the beautiful white grout in my bathroom and all sorts of I take care of that right away because it disgusts me, Not necessarily from a health care perspective, but just because I look at the wall and it's not white anymore and that bothers me tremendously Right.
Peter Lap:So what are the acceptable levels? Or is it one of those situations where the cumulative effect of different types of mold in the house makes it worse for your health?
Michael Rubino:Yeah, so I personally think it's the cumulative effects. Yeah, we have all these different spores, all these different toxins that we're constantly coming into contact with. You know, anything that we are breathing in, anything that we ingest, right, our body processes it and then it exits our body. Yeah, it's just how it works Now, with respect to the molds and what's normal and what's abnormal, you know, basically, how the test works is the EPA did two separate studies where they analyzed a thousand different homes and they got an average of what is acceptable based upon these homes that supposedly didn't have water damage environments. So we're going to get an understanding of what a home actually should look like, based upon the normal occurrence of mold, because, we got to remember, mold is part of our ecosystem. It breaks down organic decaying matter. You know we don't have mold. We're going to have dead leaves all over the place in the fall time. This is what helps kind of break things down as things die off.
Michael Rubino:The problem here is that when we have things abnormal, that means that we have mold growing inside our homes.
Michael Rubino:Now they're creating particles and toxins that now our body has to inhale and then remove. So, with that being said, you're going to see some levels of mold, but when you start to see 100 times higher or a thousand times higher than what it should be, that's where we start to run into problems and that's where I started. You know how I got into this. Which is really interesting is after a hurricane in the Northeast, where I'm from, I started seeing a pattern of people getting sick working for my dad as a restoration contractor and people are complaining and things looked like they were fixed, but actually the data was telling us that there was a problem and it wasn't until I cut open the wall and said, oh my goodness, look, look, what's here. There's all this black stuff growing and bacteria and it just wasn't good and that over time especially a problem in America, where we have HVAC systems in every home that starts getting into the HVAC systems and starts blowing around and that's where we start to have some of these issues.
Peter Lap:Yeah, because that's a similar way of and correct me if I'm wrong here but that's a similar way to the way Legionella and all that spreads, isn't it? It's in hospitals, Legionnaires, disease and all that sort of stuff comes from that. Basically, it's all through the air conditioning system and it gets. There's a source somewhere and then the air conditioning system very kindly spreads it all across the wards and all that sort of stuff.
Michael Rubino:It's exactly how pretty much most of these problems spread. You might have an outbreak in one room. It gets into the HVAC system, starts to spread everywhere. Same thing with mold and same thing with bacteria problems in our home. We might have mold developing in our kitchen and over time it's getting into the HVAC system. Now the HVAC system is way worse than the kitchen ever was and it continuously spreads. So these are some of the challenges we have in some of the modern construction that we're moving towards.
Peter Lap:So does it then mean that is there a solution? Of course that other than cleaning the source, like you said, the HVAC system is quite often the problem. Can you just swap out your HVAC system, and that's half the problem, or change the filter, or whatever you need to do that?
Michael Rubino:Yes. So there definitely is a solution. Upgrading your filter to a higher efficiency filter is going to be paramount as part of the solution, but you know, the bigger solution before that even is. People need to be aware of that. Most people that I talk to like probably 90% of the people that I talk to if I ask them what filter they have I have a Merv 8 or a Merv 13. Okay, so mold is going to be way too small, it's going to go right past that filter and it's going to contaminate the system. So most people aren't aware that this is such a problem that they should even be worried about what filter they have. And so what ends up happening is, as human nature, we go out and we buy the cheapest filters, the most cost-effective filters, because we don't know any better. And so I say educational awareness is probably one of the biggest obstacles. But as people learn, yes, there definitely is a way to keep this under control.
Peter Lap:So yeah, because when you're talking about the microns and all that sort of stuff correct me if I'm wrong, because it's been a long, long time since I did anything related to science or at least, a micron is like a micrometer, isn't it? It's like 0.00. Very small. It is tiny. I think it has width is one millimeter, something like that, and this is smaller, significantly smaller than that, right?
Peter Lap:Significantly smaller right, because that is when people are talking about the size of this sort of stuff. I have never when looking at a filter, not only time. Recently I've looked at a filter, it was when I opened up my Dyson vacuum cleaner. Right, it has one of those filters in it and I do that once every blue moon, so the thing is filthy and then because that's when I remember to do it. So then I have to wash it out and I clean it, and then I leave it sitting outside for a little bit because I'm not stupid enough to leave it in the kitchen, but then it goes back into my vacuum cleaner and I big brain then I'm a fairly clever fella, but my big brain just goes well, that's clean now, right, because I rinse it out and I can't see the dirt anymore and therefore the vacuum, the filter, will do its job anymore. I'm guessing I'm incorrect.
Michael Rubino:You probably are incorrect. The other bearer of bad news that I'd like to bring to your attention is when that filter is not working properly. As you're vacuuming Now, large particles of dust and stuff you're going to pick up, but all of the stuff you don't want, that you want trapped in that vacuum, is bypassing that filter because it's too dirty, it's too clogged, it's not working anymore and things are just passing through it and you're getting right into the environment. So here you are happy, vacuuming, making sure, trying to get all the dirt up, and it's actually just going right back out as soon as you're vacuuming it up. And that's one of the things about filters that people don't realize is that it's so important anything with a filter is so important to be on top of it, because if it's not working properly, then whatever you're trying to do, it's not doing.
Peter Lap:Yeah, and that explains why there's always a thin layer of dust on my record player as soon as I've cleaned it. So how often do like you said? I think most people clean the way I clean, as in, I clean regularly. I hover all the time. I've got three dogs and cats. I have a lot of cleaning to do, a lot of hovering to do and a lot of wiping of services and all that sort of stuff. But when it comes to filters and all that sort of thing, how often should I actually be cleaning the air conditioning filter and all that sort of stuff?
Michael Rubino:Well, most of them need to be replaced every three months.
Peter Lap:See, that's never going to happen for most people.
Michael Rubino:You know it doesn't happen for most people, I will tell you. And anybody who says they changed their filter three months religiously, I will tell you that it's time to be honest. A lot of these higher end filters, the more efficient filters actually, it's so much better because some of them you can change every couple of years and so when you have to change something every couple of years, you put a note in your phone or your calendar and it alerts you and it's so much easier to manage every three months. It's a lot, you know, and people miss stuff because, guess what, we're human beings, but it's so vital to change them.
Peter Lap:And it's quite pricey as well. Right, replacing a filter every three months or something like that. I don't know what air conditioning filters cost in the States, but I know what the replacement vacuum filter and all that sort of thing costs and we easily looking at 50, 60 bucks. So I'm not every three months. I know it sounds like it's only 20 quid a month. It sounds like it's only 20 bucks a month or, but that is probably the cheaper end of the range, but it's still. People are still like yeah, okay, once in three months I have to spend another 60 bucks or 100 bucks replacing something that you know. Air quotes should be fine.
Michael Rubino:Even the best filters that you can get shouldn't really be more than 20 bucks a month. And you know you spread that out essentially because obviously you're not buying filters every month, you know, and so you get a little bit of a discount there. But you definitely can budget filters much better and honestly, some of the more expensive filters, as you will, if you actually look at them, they're more expensive to buy up front but actually in long term they're going to be cheaper because you don't have to change them as frequently, and that's the plus side. And so you know, maybe a, maybe a filter's 500 bucks, but you change it every three years and when you do the math it's going to be cheaper than the ones you throw away every three months. And so you know.
Michael Rubino:But but we don't think about these things, you know internally, we're just process. Why would I ever spend 500 on a filter when I can spend 20? But if you don't do the math and you don't really look at it, then you don't. You don't understand. Oh well, actually the filter's way better, captures way more particles, I'm going to be healthier, and it's cheaper by budgeted out monthly, and these are the types of things we want to start thinking about in terms of how do we upgrade or elevate our air quality, which equates to our health, because that's really what we're trying to do.
Peter Lap:Yeah, cool. So so we've got the, we've got PCR tests, we know where our problem is. We've got the filter that you know with, or air conditioning systems reasonably clean. What else should people really be looking out for when it comes to what kind of cleaning? Am I not doing? That I should be doing is one of those. One of those questions.
Michael Rubino:So everything becomes part of our dust. Removing dust is key and we don't need chemicals these days. We can do it all with botanical, safer products. One of the other things besides the HVAC system to consider is just water management. Right? So we all have roofs over our head, we all have doors and windows and they don't last forever and they leak sometimes and all it takes for mold to grow or bacteria to start to develop is 24 to 48 hours. I know that's a big shock to many people. You know anytime as a kid growing up, I would think of a moldy home. I would think of this 200 year old home and you would think it's dirty and gross. And that is not the case. You know people have mold in their homes, where their homes are beautiful, and you would never know Right, because it only takes 24 to 48 hours and if you don't make sure it's really dry when you have a leak, that stuff takes over pretty quick. And what does dry mean? Well, we're going back to science class here.
Michael Rubino:So let's talk about trap moisture for a second. When two surfaces are touching one another, it has the potential to trap that moisture. Now you'll know exactly what I mean. If you go ahead and take a wet sponge and you put it on the counter and the sponge is touching the counter, the sides of the sponge will dry, the counter around the sponge will dry, but you pick up that sponge the next morning, it's wet underneath it, so it was just wet for 24 hours.
Michael Rubino:That's how mold starts to grow, because we have wall board and we have, you know, building assemblies behind it, and so when water gets behind our walls, there's all these things that get wet and trap the moisture against our walls, and that's what provides us amazing opportunity for mold and bacteria to start to develop. And that kind of sucks for us. Right, because here we are trying to live a healthy life, breathe healthy air, and all these things are happening behind the scenes that we don't know about. That's why, you know, testing your dust and just being sure you have a good and safe environment to live in is such a smart idea.
Peter Lap:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense because it's interesting, because one of them as you were talking about the moisture being trapped one of my clients, one of my personal training clients, has a leak in her house and I found it for ages. They built this big extension and it didn't quite fit right and all that sort of stuff. They have nothing but trouble, since whenever it rains from a particular direction, they've got a leak in their extension. It always looks clean, though. Do you know what I mean? It always looks like. I mean they've got a cleaner or two in the house, a big house, and you know the place always looks spotless, but it must still be wet, unless you actually properly dry that out.
Michael Rubino:Totally. The other misconception is with this whole wet thing is okay, well, all right, I got it. So mold and bacteria when it's wet, no problem. What if I have a leak and then it's not wet anymore? You know, the leak was a year ago. It's dry. We fixed it. We didn't actually remove any organisms.
Michael Rubino:Well, those organisms are still there. They don't just disintegrate. You know, if you ever kill the weed outside in your lawn or your garden, what happens to the weed? It shrivels up and it dies, and it's still there. It's still there, it's still living in your wall and these particles are still breaking apart and they're still entering your body where they're, you know. Now your body has to fight to remove them, and so the goal here is to remove it, and that might mean you got to remove some wallboard around that window. You got to really clean the area and put the wallboard back, and I know that's a pain, it's not fun, but neither is getting sick from this stuff either, and we can no longer just ignore this with the way in which our health is going across this globe.
Peter Lap:Yeah, no, because you're quite right. I mean the number of what I call and I think most people call lifestyle illnesses, you know, is for the roof, and usually when we say lifestyle illness we think about what people are doing to themselves with regards to drinking too much, smoking, eating crappy food and all that sort of stuff. We might consider the environment. I used to live on the most polluted street in Scotland. It's a street in Edinburgh. It's a lovely street and the houses are quite expensive there, but it's the most polluted street in Scotland just because of the amount of traffic. So then you think about it in those terms, but we never really consider our homes unless there's something really massively wrong. You know, cockroaches floating everywhere and all that sort of stuff. We never really consider our home as being part of the problem.
Michael Rubino:Which is so interesting because it's where we spend 90% of our time.
Peter Lap:Well, yeah, it makes complete sense to look into this sort of stuff. So how do you? How can you? Because, like you said, you don't need to buy the most aggressive cleaners anymore we have. We have moved past that point, I think. Right, we're not particularly bleaching on everything anymore. Is there at least for anyone listening? I hope you're not. So what kind of cleaning should we actually be doing again that we're currently just not doing?
Michael Rubino:Yeah, so thymol-based disinfectants are really great at broad spectrum removal of mold bacteria viruses pretty much anything under the sun that you can have that you want to remove from your environment. Seven generations of brand that comes to mind, benefits of brand that comes to mind, but they're pretty much a thymol of this infectance all over the globe that you can find Now. The other key to this is microfiber, microfiber towels to clean are so much more effective.
Michael Rubino:I mean, studies are showing it's a hundred times more effective than like a paper towel, because it has all these little micro threads that help capture particles in those threads much more effectively. So switching out to microfiber towels to clean with it'll be so much more effective at removing these things than paper towels any day.
Peter Lap:Well, see, that's excellent, because I've got a drawer full of microfiber towels and I still keep reaching for the kitchen towel you know, when I'm cleaning, because I'm still very much. The cleaning towel is over there, so I'll just do some dusting and graphic. I always forget about the microfiber towels because I think everybody's got them in the house now that are just lying in the cupboard somewhere completely unused. Mine are whiter than white simply because they've hardly ever been used. So you know how fast these things get dirty, right? So that's where it's starting the final base, and I think in the UK we have like e-cover and all that sort of stuff. Most of the brands that have some sort of environmental claim tend to be a final base, I believe, in the UK.
Michael Rubino:That makes sense. Yeah, exactly.
Peter Lap:That is their main selling point Does for a large part of my listener base. They clean with vinegar. Does that help, or should we really use something slightly more like final?
Michael Rubino:base stuff. You know I personally prefer final based applications, just because, and especially, most of these products are ready to use. They already have some surfactant in them, so they help degrease at the same time. Vinegar is good. Vinegar is definitely a pretty well-known acidic base to help remove some of these things as well, but it's not broadly studied for its efficacy across a spectrum of different things, and so from my perspective you know we're looking at broad spectrum. We want to remove a broad spectrum of microorganisms or things that we might not want in our environment. I tend to go with thymol. Now, if I have a specific purpose I'm trying to clean maybe a water bottle or something to that effect I might switch it up for some vinegar. It really just depends on the thing. But the other thing about vinegar is it kind of smells right.
Peter Lap:Yeah, it smells horrific.
Michael Rubino:You start wiping down walls and floors and stuff with vinegar. I don't know. It's going to smell like you just made a salad in your place and it might take a while to dissipate. So I think thymol is going to be a much more cleaner smell that is not quite so foul as well.
Peter Lap:Right, cool Because, like I said, for a while, I think everybody who was slightly health conscious with regards to this sort of stuff used vinegar. Well, it's a while and, much like you said, I hate the smell, so it's not going to happen For me. In the UK there's a company called Small that's S-M-O-L for everybody listening in the UK and they do all the environmental stuff and they take out little tablets and all of that sort of stuff that take care of that, which is the stuff I use, and they don't even pay me to say this. That's the stuff that I use because, like yourself, the smell of vinegar, even if you add it. You have to make your own cleaning potion, right? Then they say, oh, but you can add lavender to it. I've got two jobs. I'm not going to make my own cleaning potion.
Michael Rubino:Do you brew the lavender or essential oil in your basement there?
Peter Lap:That is, yeah, that type of stuff.
Michael Rubino:Yeah, no, I mean people that do that. It's so cool. I wish I had the time too, like you said. But you know what's so funny about this? We all know the curve. We're going to call it the curve. You started with bleach, right yeah. Then we went to ammonia, yeah.
Peter Lap:Then we went to vinegar, right Now we're.
Michael Rubino:Then there was a brief time where we went to just soap and water. Now we're thymol based products that are broad spectrum disinfectants and I can't wait to see where we head next, you know, because that curve always changes and there's always new things coming out. But I think I'm just so glad we're off of bleach, off of ammonia, because there's so many, you know, healthy alternatives to essentially keep a clean home.
Peter Lap:Yeah, and especially because we now know that what bleach and ammonia actually does and what a lot of these. I mean these things are not great for us at the best of times, but bleach is just way too aggressive to be used in in in home. You know, one of my former clients used to train with me. I used to have a big gym, a big training space in Edinburgh and they used to come in on. That was sort of play and she said you know, I sometimes had to clean the floor with bleach and she used to like love clean and after it, because for her bleach smells clean. That was just that was the smell she associated with her from childhood. She was a bit older. She was like that's the only thing that smells clean.
Peter Lap:I love bleach and I'm just thinking you're going to be quite absolutely, if not just as services in your house, but your lungs and your microbiome of your skin and it's going. It is horrifically bad for it. So I love things. That'll be interesting to see where it ends up next, but it's the. I think a lot of the stuff out there now is actually pretty good Totally.
Michael Rubino:I mean, you know it's really funny about bleach and I feel like we're really knocking on bleach. I promise last thing, the number one and the first instruction on any bleach containers and say make sure the area is well ventilated. Yeah, so it's like this stuff is so toxic If there's not enough airflow to move things around you know, call somebody else. That's not our fault, yeah.
Peter Lap:No, that's quite right. Cool. So we've, we've, we have to PC artists, we've done all that. We started cleaning our house properly and all that sort of thing, and usually we work with it. Yeah, yeah, some tricks orblondes. Do I need to invest? Would it help? Because I know we touched on air purifiers a little bit already. But, like you said, you start at the basic and first. There's no point purifying anything if something else chucks a lot of germs and bacteria your way. Do I then invest in an air purifier or are you saying the most important thing is just that you clean your house properly, air it out very quickly? We had all that sort of stuff.
Michael Rubino:Yeah, I think increasing our ventilation is key. Making sure we're in control of moisture and humidity also another big big part of this. Keeping a clean home full of free of dust that's going to be another big one when air purifiers help. They're essentially giant vacuums with filters on them, and so they're capturing these particles that are airborne and they're trapping them in the filter continuously, and so those are helpful too, because they're going to help with the cleaning aspect.
Michael Rubino:I mean, cleaning is not my favorite pastime, right, but it has to be done. So if we can reduce the amount of necessity of cleaning through air purification, awesome. The only thing I want people to remember is that if I'm living in a moldy environment and it's got lots of bacteria and all these problems, plugging in an air purifier, that's probably not going to be enough for me to really clean air, because there's too many particles and toxins being created every second. Yeah, so it's really important that we utilize air purification as a guide, but not as the solution, right, right? So making sure if we do have problems, we're cleaning them up properly and correcting whatever water intrusion or moisture intrusion that allowed it to grow in the first place, and that is kind of what's going to give us this pathway to a really healthy environment?
Peter Lap:And so, and what about, since you're here picking your brain and all sorts of dehumidifiers? I live in Scotland, which is okay. You're in Florida, so you probably beat me with regards to the most human place on the planet actually is, but Scotland is a pretty close second, because it's always raining here and, as I picked up from your website, there's very little houses these days. I'm designed very much to minimize airflow, so there's a lot of humidity in the air. It stays put and all the sort of doesn't dehumidifier actually help?
Michael Rubino:I mean it's tremendously, tremendously, because here's the deal. So certain species of mold can grow in as little as 60% relative humidity, or more, that's, which is very much, which is, you know, depending on where you live, that that could be every day, right? And so when we have high humidity inside our environments, mold starts to grow on our things, on our walls, in our, in our HVAC systems, and the only way to control it is with the dehumidifier, right? And so I have two of two of them in my house, and they're set at 50%, and so, essentially, anytime the humidity rises above 50%, these things turn on automatically and get it, get it to keep it at 50% or less. And that's really important, because, where I live and where you live, if we have high humidity and we have this ability for mold and bacteria to start to take over our house, that's going to have an effect on our bodies.
Peter Lap:So yeah, because, interestingly enough, because I just had to look it up Scotland is 82, all average, which is and that's in May good people, so that's in the warm month, you know it's. I'm not quite sure how humidity works because, again, it's nothing I ever really considered. I just go with the, I look outside and it's wet, but on average January is like 84%. So when you're talking, anything above 60% is actually, you know, possibly problematic and all that sort of stuff it's got you definitely want to maybe invest in the dehumidifier and all that sort of thing.
Michael Rubino:Absolutely yeah, and it'll probably be less humid inside than outside, of course, but that's where you want to kind of pay attention to. You know what is the humidity like outside, how much of that is impacting the inside and what's my humidity like inside?
Peter Lap:So, and what about? You know when, when, how often do you need? How often did you recommend people actually test for this sort of stuff? Because you know it's the sort of thing that again COVID the little COVID reference whenever. Two years ago, whenever anyone had a cough, the first thing that it was test for COVID right. And now when people have a cough they don't really test anymore, unless they're feeling like crap, because now you have to pay for your PCR test.
Peter Lap:I'm not sure what it's like in states, but in over here they used to be free and therefore people testing their Friday Center, whereas now you pay a couple of bucks for them and all of a sudden we're not testing so much anymore, also because nobody wants to stay home for nine days and not work and all that sort of thing. But what we did learn is that this sort of stuff mold can easily reoccur Even if you've done your best. You have to have your big clean out, you have to have your house nice and dry for a year. How often do you need to? How often would you recommend people test for this stuff?
Michael Rubino:to stay on top of it. I recommend once a year. And the reason being is, yeah, you can do all the things you can preventative as possible, but our buildings change over time. Something that wasn't leaking all of a sudden one day now is leaking Our roofs. Wind blows and things shift and now, all of a sudden, our roof is leaking. Windows and doors they're installed, they're not meant to last forever. They have waterproofing seals, they have countermeasures, but water does come in at sometimes, and so, as our buildings do change and break down, our buildings change, mold and bacteria starts to grow and our environment changes. And so, if we test once a year, whenever we compare our results from the year before it to now, if we see something going in the wrong direction, we can easily say you know what.
Michael Rubino:I better see what's going on before this becomes a bigger problem.
Peter Lap:Yeah, now that makes sense to just stay on top. It's probably cheaper as well. Everybody knows that. You know, if you've never probably been a butt, then you know it's definitely a lot easier to deal with and a lot cheaper, absolutely. So what would you say? Your top three things are for people that they definitely should be doing, that they aren't doing, that you're like guys, if you just do these three things, you'll likely be all right.
Michael Rubino:So when you are buying a home, you should inspect it. That is probably the number one mistake. That's a good shout.
Peter Lap:Yeah, we did not interrupt when the and I bought the house. We were thinking about buying a house a few years ago and I said there's a dump spot in the corner, nothing to worry about. We have a dump survey done. And the guy said oh, of course you're 40,000 pounds, it's about 60 grand, and this was not a super expensive house. And the guy doing the survey said, yeah, that's 60,000. That we can see, right, once we start opening stuff up, it is not going to get any better, so we need to get a survey done. That's a good shout.
Michael Rubino:And it started off with just a little spot, right, so you never know, right.
Peter Lap:I only saw a little bit because obviously the people selling the house and painted it over right, they just these people are not idiots, they're selling the house. You paint the house. It was being lived in at the time, so yeah, it was just bought in the corner. You just kind of doesn't look quite right. I'd better pay 200 bucks for a service service of rather cheap. In the UK Houses are rather expensive, so it seemed to me to be an old brainer rather than being stuck with it.
Michael Rubino:So yeah, yeah. And people make them a mistake all the time. Or they, you know, they love the house, it looks great. They think, ah no, we don't need an inspection, it looks fine, and then, boom, they get sick or something like that. Right, the other thing is, you know, maintaining the house. Do routine inspections. Check your roof, check doors and windows, check anywhere where water can come in. Make sure that there's not water coming in. Do the dust test right. Check your environment, see what you're being exposed. To compare it to last test test you did, and always keep a record so you can see if there's things are normal or going in a different direction that you don't want it to go. And, last but not least, you know, purify your air, clean your home, keep it dust free, because all of these things accumulate in our dust and the more more of this stuff we're breathing in, the worse it's going to get.
Peter Lap:Yeah, because that is again that's an interesting point you kept mentioning there about keeping track of what it was like last year and what it's like this year and all that sort of stuff.
Peter Lap:Cause, because it's so mostly aui, what is common in my house is likely to not be common in your house, right, right, so the measurements you get, that you get are normal for your house certain bacteria, slightly higher because you live in Florida, and all that sort of stuff, whereas in my house that would be a problem because you know it's shot up 50% in the last year.
Peter Lap:And if I'm just looking at things that have come back to the cumulative effect a little bit, if everything in isolation looks okay this is how I view most of things In isolation things can look okay because they're all below levels, below safety levels. But if you're all just below safety levels, which have absolutely everything in your house, then the cumulative effect is still unlikely to be healthy. Right, you know I can have for people listening who think I'm wondering what I'm talking about, I can have a serving size of Oreos, I can have a serving size of Snickers, I can have a serving size of Marsbys and I still stay below the daily recommended serving sizes of all these individual things. If, however, I do that every day, I have a pretty shitty diet overall, and that is pretty much. Pretty much what I mean that the guys have this sort of stuff on those tests as well.
Michael Rubino:Yeah, that's true, you could eat one Oreo, one Snickers, and if you look at it individually, yeah, you ate the serving size, but you just ate probably 10 times more of the recommended dose of sugar that you should have had, because cumulatively these things add up. It's exactly right, great point.
Peter Lap:Yeah, not exactly. I think that is important and that's why tracking what you're actually doing makes a lot of sense, in the same way that I always tell people you know, that's what you do in the gym, that's what you do with regards to your health reports and all those yearly tests as well. Cool, was there anything else you wanted to do? Because we've covered a ton of stuff and I can almost hear half of my listeners running out at least, well, most of my listeners are females and I'll be a little bit misogynistic and sexist, but I know that if my wife ever listens to this, she would immediately tell me you need to go out now and get this stuff tested. So I can hear half my listeners go to their spouses and say you need to sort this out. Was there anything else you wanted to touch on that you, like people, should really really know this stuff.
Michael Rubino:I think today we covered the basics, which are really important. Of course, there is so much more to dive into if you're a nerd like me and you love this stuff but the reality of the situation it is. My goal is to try to utilize the information that I've learned. I've helped thousands of people that were really sick get better by transforming their environment, and, of course, they had doctors and other things too but the key here is that we've never been sicker.
Michael Rubino:We're going down a wrong path. We're not paying attention to our environment. We're not even thinking about it. It's not even on our radar, and this is why I think we are getting worse and worse and worse, and if we want to try to reverse that, we have to start thinking about the air we breathe 20,000 breaths per day, right, and all these things that we're breathing in and think about what our body has to do to remove those things. It's a lot of stress on top of the stress we already have living life and being human beings. These things add up, and so if anyone has learned anything today in terms of what to do, amazing, but just the fact that you are here with me today and learning that you should even care about this, that is huge.
Peter Lap:Yeah, I think you're quite right. I think it is one of those things that we all were aware of many things in our life. Most people do the best they can to stay healthy, but this is one of those areas that is wildly neglected, which you can tell from the fact that I'm like 230 episodes into this podcast all about health and I've never covered air quality. But it's just. It is so far under the radar, like you said, and it seems to me just from a simple perspective, even from an economic perspective, just ignore the whole health thing. Your house is worth more if you don't have mold. You can sell your house if you don't have mold. If you have mold, I'm not buying your house. It's kind of that simple. And if you nip this sort of thing in the bud, like I said, in the bud, it'll be cheaper to deal with and your health will improve massively because your shower isn't covered in filth and all that sort of stuff. Exactly Cool. So on that happy note, I will press stop record here, and press stop record is exactly what I did. Thanks very much to Michael for coming on.
Peter Lap:I think I got more from that chat with regards to good tips and solid information than I have from other podcasts. This is easy to implement sort of stuff. Check out the Home Cleanse website. Of course you know you're going to have a look. There's a ton of good information in there. Michael's been on a ton of interesting podcasts, including the group podcast. You know Gwyneth Paltrow's thing and you know I'm not a big fan of the old group. But you know, if Gwyneth were to invite me on or Miss Paltrow were to invite me on, I would jump on, because I am nothing if not a hypocrite.
Peter Lap:Peter at HealtheePostNatalBodycom, of course, if you have any questions, any, any subjects you would like me to discuss, any people you would like me to talk to, I'll send an email out. I'm very, very lucky. There's a wide variety of people happy to come on to my little show. That's it for yet another week. I will be back next week, because I am always back next week. Peter at HealtheePostNatalBodycom, if you have any questions or comments, here's a new bit of music. You have a tremendous week and take care of yourself. Bye now.
Michael Rubino:It's where I've been and who I am. All the ways I've grown Blood and sweat, tears and regret Made me hot as stone. On my own, on my own, put the working. Yeah, I'm dead. It's my destiny. Yeah, I'm on top, can't be stopped Shooting my shot. Ooh, ooh, ooh. Yeah, I'm the one. I'm a legend. Get what I want. Ooh, ooh, ooh. Yeah, I'm on top, can't be stopped Shooting my shot.
Peter Lap:Ooh, ooh, ooh. Yeah, I'm the one. I'm a legend. Get what I want, do a double take.
Michael Rubino:See me on fire, see that I can break the wall of the pain. All of the love, so within our keeper of all faith, never changed. Put the working. Yeah, I'm dead, it's my destiny. Yeah, I'm on top, can't be stopped Shooting my shot. Ooh, ooh, ooh. Yeah, I'm the one. I'm a legend. Get what I want. Ooh, ooh, ooh. Yeah, I'm on top, can't be stopped Shooting my shot. Ooh, ooh, ooh, yeah, I'm the one. I'm a legend. Get what I want. Put the working. Yeah, I'm dead, it's my destiny. I'm the one. I'm a legend. Get what I want. Move, oh.