The Healthy Post Natal Body Podcast
The Healthy Post Natal Body Podcast
Essential Strategies for Navigating Postpartum with Dr. Emilie Wilson
In this week's episode I have the pleasure of being joined by Dr Emilie Wilson.
Emilie is a Naturopathic doctor and, more importantly, she's also the author of "POST: The Essential Guide to Creating Your Postpartum Self-Care Plan in Pregnancy" .
We are talking about the importance of planning for your postpartum life during your pregnancy.
As I've mentioned before; the more you plan for things going well, and things potentially not going great, the easier your postpartum life (and mental health) will be.
Emilie talks us through the things to focus on and one or two things that very often get overlooked.
We speak about Postpartum Depression and Anxiety and how preparing for everything early on can really help if you are unfortunate enough to be one of the many women who suffer from this.
Emilie also explains how to set up a good support network and how to bring the family in successfully.
As always when discussing these things we also talk about the gaps there are in the healthcare system, how it could be improved, and how to navigate your way through that yourself.
Her book is a tremendous reference work and you can download a FREE guide that actually helps you out a lot already here
You can find her in all the right places;
Her website
Instagram
Facebook
And definitely get that guide!!
As always; HPNB still only has 5 billing cycles.
So this means that you not only get 3 months FREE access, no obligation!
BUT, if you decide you want to do the rest of the program, after only 5 months of paying $10/£8 a month you now get FREE LIFE TIME ACCESS! That's $50 max spend, in case you were wondering.
Though I'm not terribly active on Instagram and Facebook you can follow us there. I am however active on Threads so find me there!
And, of course, you can always find us on our YouTube channel if you like your podcast in video form :)
Visit healthypostnatalbody.com and get 3 months completely FREE access. No sales, no commitment, no BS.
Email peter@healthypostnatalbody.com if you have any questions, comments or want to suggest a guest/topic
Playing us out; "Spin with the wind" by Neon Beach
Hey, welcome to the Healthy Postnatal Body Podcast with your postnatal expert, peter Lap. That, as always, would be me. This is the podcast for the 17th of November 2024. You know, when I say the day before the music, I have a guest on. Today I'm talking to Dr Emily Wilson, who is a naturopathic doctor, but, more importantly, she wrote a book well, book, I mean reference guide really called Post the Essential Guides to Creating your Postpartum Self-Care Plan in Pregnancy. And yes, it's one of those episodes. We're talking how to prepare for postpartum life, how to really prepare for postpartum life during pregnancy. So if you're pregnant or know somebody who is, this is definitely one you're going to want to listen to. It's a wonderful conversation. You'll pick up loads of stuff. So, without further ado, here we go. Tell me about post. So why do we have to plan for postpartum and what kind of thing do you think we should start with?
Dr Wilson:yeah, oh my gosh, what a what a great question with a huge answer. But you know, writing post really came from my experience as a new mom. I mean, I was already a doctor. I had worked with women in their hormone health, cardiometabolic health, for years, for years and I kind of figured that when it came to postpartum I didn't do my research before I had my daughter. But I kind of figured, you know what, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. I'll be able to figure everything out as I need to. I'm very much in that way kind of a roll with the punches kind of person anyway. So I figured that personality trait would just get me through. And what I didn't realize I had my daughter at home and actually had a pretty traumatic home birth experience. I ended up in the hospital and that set me up for a really challenging postpartum time.
Peter:I bet.
Dr Wilson:And a lot of that for me was with, uh like mental health challenges, like postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, and so post writing, post really was like a lifesaver for me, and I I took all of the things that I knew, that I I took all the questions that I had about why am I feeling this way and what can I possibly do myself to help myself feel better, and created a book that comes with the postpartum self-care plan to help other women hopefully avoid what I went through, or at least to set themselves up for their healthiest, happiest postpartum experience possible, because what I realized was there's so much that I didn't know and if I didn't know it, then other women also didn't know it and starting to think about that process in pregnancy is essential.
Dr Wilson:I want nobody to go through their pregnancy doing what I did, which is I'll figure it out later, I'll get to it when I get to it because if I had, if I had put that thought and that time and that energy into it, I would have done things a lot more differently and hopefully I would have had a better experience yeah, no, it's because it's fascinating, isn't it?
Peter:because I think that there are quite often two camps in this and it's like exactly what you said I'll figure it out when we get to it, or I'll read a short book and I'll do the antenatal classes, but I won't do too much because it'll be fine. Women have done this for thousands of years and therefore it must be okay. And then you have the other side, that is, people don't expect bad things to happen to them, especially around the what I call the unicorns and rainbows stage of of, of having a baby on that stage in their life, because that's what, that's how having a baby is usually sold right. It's all unicorns and rainbows, it'll be magic, it'll be amazing, you'll love like you've never loved before that type of stuff. And and it's very easy to forget that postpartum depression happens a lot more. Postpartum anxiety, postpartum psychosis these things happen a lot more than people might think it does. So planning for that is just essential, just like a worst case scenario type sort of deal.
Dr Wilson:Yeah, and I hate to even say this, but I think it's very true. You know, you plan for I don't even want to say you plan for the worst, but you plan for the contingencies, the, the outliers, and then you hope for the best. And I think that's why, you know, when I was pregnant, I loved nesting, I loved buying things for my unborn baby. I loved buying the clothes and the, the sheets and the crib and all of those things and preparing a space for her. But, and all of those things and preparing a space for her, but I think that's a lot of.
Dr Wilson:You know hoping for the best, right, and it's beautiful and it's an important part of pregnancy. But you know, maintaining that sense of realism, I think is so important too, because at least here in the States, we live in a world with a medical system that does not support postpartum women and unfortunately, at this point a huge part of the burden of care falls on the woman herself and on her people, so her family, her partner, and that's a lot to bear. So if we can help them get the information they need beforehand, at least they have a resource. She knows where to go when she has questions.
Peter:so does her partner, hopefully yeah, because that's obviously a really important thing is that it's very well I I see this a lot with regards to my pt stuff. Almost all my clients are postpartum women. Every now and again I'll train the husband as well, you know, it's one of those that the woman looks a certain way postpartum and the guy is like, actually I better sort myself out as well. So I'll borrow your pt for a little while, that type of scenario.
Peter:But most of our postpartum and most of the conversations I have with people postpartum, especially the woman has done all the prep work, absolutely everything, and it goes from nesting to maybe even if they're even starting to prepare, like making some meals, throwing, filling up the freezer for the first week postpartum, that type of stuff and it's. And she tends to have all the knowledge, if she has the knowledge and she tends to have done, but the husband or the spouse, whatever, tends not to necessarily have. They've not necessarily come along on that particular journey, let alone the mother or the, as in the grandmother or grandfather or anything like that. It's quite essential when you're talking about postpartum prep to bring all these people along with you, right?
Dr Wilson:Yeah, yeah, and what's fascinating and not fascinating in a good way. But one thing I learned when I was doing my research for post was that up to eight to 10% of partners can actually be diagnosed with postpartum depression, and those are the people that are going to the doctor and, just like with postpartum women, we are missing a huge opportunity to help people when they need it the most and, just like with postpartum women, their partners might not realize that they're actually not okay. Like I didn't realize, I was not okay for a long time. It took a doctor to tell me that, and I'm a doctor. A long time, it took a doctor to tell me that, and I'm a doctor. So if postpartum women are suffering like that, yeah, we need to also probably check in with partners too, and even open up the door for dialogue between the two people and make sure that they are there connecting with each other. What a beautiful opportunity for them, as a couple, to really show up for each other.
Peter:What a beautiful opportunity for them as a, as a couple, to really show up for each other, if you know as much as possible yeah, because any, any huge change in life this is what I always say any huge change in your life and you know, whether you believe it or not, having a baby is a huge change in your life and your family dynamic and all this sort of stuff. Um, it's always funny when they say the most stressful time of life, when that people have, is changing careers or moving houses. Right, nobody ever brings up having a baby. I'm like, oh, trust me, that's bigger than moving house. Yeah, and if your partner isn't prepared even for, if your partner isn't prepared for the change in you and the change in circumstances, they might not even recognize that you are suffering From a purely selfish let's only focus on the mother perspective. Right, your partner needs to recognize that you are struggling, because you yourself might not even realize that you're struggling. You might not be comfortable coming out saying that you're struggling yeah, and it's such.
Dr Wilson:That's why I really want to be able to give women this um awareness in pregnancy, because before the baby comes is the best time to start thinking about this and it's the best time to start talking with your partner about you know maybe a little bit about. Did you have you ever struggled with with a mental health condition? Are you concerned about postpartum depression? Are you concerned about depression and pregnancy? And how can you guys check in with each other? Include is a list of red flags so physical flags, but also mental health red flags so that you can just print it out, put it up or tuck it into the book, whatever, but it's a resource, right In case you're concerned, in case your partner is concerned. It's one more way to just check in and say, hey, have you been feeling like this at all?
Peter:Yeah, no, absolutely, and I suppose it's the said because I don't want to focus too much on like PPD and all that type of stuff. But it's like you said, the more prep work you do for an easier postpartum life, the easier. Well, it sounds really stupid, but the easier your postpartum life is and the easier your postpartum mental and physical health is going to be. So what are some of the things that you wish you had done in hindsight that you were like I should have done this yeah, the number one thing I wish I had done was really created the structure for a support system right and I'm super lucky I had my.
Dr Wilson:my daughter's father and I are separated now, but right when she was born we were together. I had my daughter at my mother's house. So I had my mother there, I had my sister there. But I one of the things that was so apparent to me in hindsight not in the time, but in hindsight I realized, wow, I, when I was postpartum and I was really struggling, I saw the world very differently. I saw I didn't know where I fit in the world and so I wasn't sure if I could like trust the people that I was supposed to trust or that I knew I could trust. Like my mom, my sister. I was worried that they were, you know, irritated with me. I was worried that they didn't love me anymore. Like all of these irrational things started coming up and so it pushed me away and it kept me from getting the support that I needed.
Dr Wilson:And so, while I could never have anticipated having had that experience, what I could have done and what I wish I had done, is really sat down with the people that were most important to me in my life and said you know, I'm concerned that I might have a little bit of a. You know I just want to make sure my mental health is going to be supported. Can you help me with that? And so in the book I talk about, you know you have different levels of support. There's like community support with food and checking in and can I watch the baby for an hour, and then there are those people that are like your medical advocate. There are those people that are your mental health and wellness advocates who are checking in with you kind of on a different level. I wish I had set that up for myself.
Peter:that's the number one thing I wish I had done and were you prepared because you said you and you had a home birth that then, let's say, escalated to a hospital? Were you prepared for the eventuality that you might have to, that you might end up in hospital? Because a lot of people that I speak to that have a home birth set up, they mentally have a whole thing of a birthing plan and there's candles involved and sometimes flowers and music and all that's all that again, unicorns and rainbows, it's going to be magic, it's going to be amazing, and then, when the time comes that their birthing plan kind of goes out the window, that's a big hit for for a lot of women that I've spoken to yeah, yeah um, sorry, no, no, that's fine.
Peter:So did you find that? Were you mentally prepared for that happening at all, or you just didn't see it coming?
Dr Wilson:not even a little bit. Nope. And again, I mean, I had every opportunity to to see that or to think about that, but I just wasn't thinking about it. And I had an ob-gyn and I had a midwife, and from neither camp was was anybody talking to me about what if your birth plan goes on, you know is unexpected, and what are your plans for postpartum? And so again, I think it was just a huge missed opportunity.
Dr Wilson:But yeah, I didn't necessarily have, like the candles and the flowers. I did have, um, a lot of Real Housewives episodes, april, april, and I was like I'm going to meditate until the baby comes and I just the biggest thing for me was I always said to myself I want my 20 minutes, and by that I meant that after my daughter was born, I wanted nobody in the room to say anything. I wanted complete quiet because I wanted her to be born. I wanted to hold her for 20 minutes before I said a word, before anything happened that I could mess up. You know, I called it 20 perfect minutes of like. For 20 minutes I'll be the perfect mom and then I'll open my but I, that was my number one thing for my home birth and of course, I never got that 20 minutes yeah, so and and that that must have been.
Peter:And that's why I'm asking, because I I hear this quite often from people. They're just not expecting it to not be perfect and there is usually a one one thing indeed, like I'm you're talking about something really, really big like that, that 20 minutes. But I, I have spoken to women who couldn't get the flowers they wanted and they as in that for them was because it was outside of the scope, and it sounds really silly maybe to some people listening to this, but but in the moment that was a huge thing for for these women and and I'm not trivializing this, but any stretch, if you have something laid out and this is your plan and this is your, this is your life we know we put enough pressure on these things as it is then something small going wrong can seem like a huge thing and a lot of the time. I don't know if you notice it, but if you watch television and people are talking about people are giving birth, usually in comedy shows, like friends or something like that it's a prime example.
Peter:Something small will always go wrong. It seems like a big thing. The baby is then born and all is well with the world right. That's usually the narrative, um, and that is just not what the real experience from people is. Once the baby is born, all is not necessarily well immediately yeah, it's kind of no, sorry.
Peter:So so how do you, how do you think you can prepare for something like that when, uh, when we all know that this could happen?
Dr Wilson:yeah, oh, because birth is this huge moment that mirrors death right, like something is coming into the world and we come into the world, and it's just as fragile and intense a process as leaving the world can be. And so I think that it's such a personal and intense question, and I think that the best thing that a woman can do is just really start having conversations with her doctor. First of all, she needs to get a handle on if there are any health issues going on for her. That means that her baby might need to be monitored at a different level, might need to have more access to a hospital or that kind of higher-end Western medical care, and that's really important to consider. I think, too, once, after speaking with a doctor and maybe a couple of doctors, maybe get a second opinion.
Dr Wilson:I spoke with a few doctors because I had my daughter at 42. And so, of course, you know, 42 years old, red flagged. I got my genetic test results back. Oh my God, there's going to be a problem, there's a genetic issue which devastated me, and so I had to go to see a specialist and a genetic specialist, and they were like go to see a specialist and a genetic specialist. And they were like no, this is absolutely fine, your baby's totally healthy, it's that you're 42. So it was just you know, but.
Dr Wilson:But you have to get those questions answered because there's just so much tenderness and intensity around that time that I think having the appropriate level of of access to medical care and having a plan around what to do if something goes wrong is really, really important.
Dr Wilson:I don't talk people out of home births by any stretch of the imagination, but I do say have all those conversations with your midwife, you know. Know what your plan is if something's going to go wrong. One thing that I always recommend that people who have a home birth do is is write out on one sheet of paper you know your full name, your date of birth, all the medications you're taking, all your chronic health conditions, all the medications you're taking, all your chronic health conditions, your blood type and any life-threatening allergies or allergies that might need to be known about, so that if you have to go to the hospital, maybe you're God forbid, but if you lose consciousness or if your partner doesn't know this, then the medical team has your information. Write it down, have it. Hopefully you'll never need it. But that's one really simple but important thing that people can do to prepare.
Peter:And the nice thing about that type of preparation is also, it puts you in the moment, doesn't it? As in you're actively, you're still very much in that not the nesting stage, but the stage before that, where you're just actively in the moment of preparing for birth, preparing for labor. So it's a very active rather than passive way of dealing with your pregnancy, so to speak. And I'm trying to find a way to say this I consider going onto Amazon and buying a crib a very passive way of dealing with your pregnancy, whereas writing stuff down, as in this happens and you're planning it it's a very active and much more intuitive, much more connective way, if I may use a crunchy phrase to deal with that. So what about the postpartum stage? What do you think? Okay, I have to write about this. The first two to three weeks postpartum this is how you prepare for it.
Dr Wilson:Yeah, there are a few essential pieces of the postpartum self-care plan that I put together.
Dr Wilson:And the big ones are obviously nutrition, hydration, sleep, exercise, slash, movement right and then support. So those are the big ones and I think, of all of those, the easiest one for so many of us to wrap our heads around, other than maybe hydration, just big picture and I've heard you talk about this too, but like big picture, like you know that you need to drink more water in pregnancy and you also are going to need to drink that more water in postpartum, especially if you're breastfeeding, so that part's kind of easy to compartmentalize. The other easiest, most accessible, understandable piece is nutrition, and it's foundational. I mean, a lot of the research points to nutrition as being, you know, really helpful or really unhelpful in helping women recover. You know it helps with mental health and wellness, it helps with cardiometabolic health, it helps with weight loss, it helps with just overall healing and health recovery and so, while it's not necessarily the most important, like sleep is another essential piece to a postpartum person's wellness, but that usually requires a more in-depth conversation, right, because there's a lot of management that has to go into that conversation. But for nutrition, like we all get it so I would say, focusing on, you know, focusing on having a healthy diet, but more than that in pregnancy.
Dr Wilson:Fall in love with healthy food. Make it taste good. And I talk about this, about how, like pizza can be a healthy food, cheeseburgers can be a healthy food. We don't have to demonize these things. You just have to buy high quality ingredients and add your veggies. Add your veggies to this food and make it healthy, right? So that's what I always tell people fall in love with healthy food. If you need um like a parameter or a plan, the mediterranean diet is a great and very highly researched way to go. So those are my, that's my number one. You know, if you're going to do one thing, do that. Um also sleep. Side note very, very important. And usually like that's kind of a we can't see the forest for a tree situation. So women are, they're exhausted, they're freaking out, they're like this is my life, how do I deal with it? And so at that point they probably need somebody to come in and provide a bird's eye view to help them create some strategies yeah, and that that's a good point.
Peter:That is, that's an excellent point. Having an outsider's perspective on this is a good way to structure things, because postpartum is really useful because other than when you do that and I talk about this every single time I talk about postpartum health and listeners will be fed up about this but I talk a lot about the Chinese habit of sitting them on, and when I say Chinese habits, it's worldwide, it's absolutely everywhere, except for the US and the UK, where we just go sleep when the baby sleeps and go screw yourself right. That is pretty much it. But in most countries there is some sort of period where the mother focuses solely on the child and recovery and everything else gets done by other people, which I think is the way to go and I think it's a no brainer. But that includes quite often because I know there's a side to practice people that you can hire.
Peter:For instance, in the States it's becoming a lot more popular now where you can just hire someone. It's like a nanny for the mother for like a month and you don't do anything yourself. But I understand that that's a very privileged position to be in if you can afford to do that, because they're not cheap, as you can imagine. But having someone come in from outside and just go listen, don't worry about the laundry, don't worry about doing the dishes, don't worry about doing everything that needs done around the house Someone will come in to help or it all sorts itself out. Or here's at least a plan that make it manageable, takes away a tremendous amount of pressure on the mother and allows her to focus a lot more on the connection with the child, which I think is what almost everybody understands is the most important thing, and especially in the first month or two yeah, yeah, it would be a beautiful thing if we could all have access to that yeah, to be fair, I think it's a no-brainer.
Peter:I think, with the amount of money you guys pay in the states for health insurance, it should be included. We pay significantly less, so we got to bugger all, but you should really the amount of money that gets thrown around with regards to health care in America for private health. I think that's one of the things that should be included. But you know, for what doesn't always happen and, let's be honest, everybody's making money, so it's not going to happen anytime soon. Nobody really cares that much about that stage, about the mother. But what can we do if we don't get an outside perspective? You have a program that is included in BOST that helps women structure that a little bit better and make that a little bit easier, rather than just going with the standard. You know, sleep when the baby's sleeping type of advice, right?
Dr Wilson:yeah, and really the program is is about. It's a container to support women in those daily moments where the the questions that you could never have imagined coming up, they come up and you need an answer, you need a place to go and, and, um, so we do a lot. So I I love to catch women when they're still pregnant and so we can actually help them set up their postpartum self-care plan. That's the goal, right. But oftentimes I do start working with women when they're postpartum because they never even knew that they would have these questions and now they're overwhelmed, they're frazzled, they just need someplace to go to, kind of like open up this bursting suitcase of questions and anxieties and and emotions and just let it explode and have somebody help them go through it and make sense of it.
Dr Wilson:Um. So, yeah, we, we do a lot of that and it's just a lot of um, you know. Again, to come back to the example of sleep, which is so essential for women in this part of their lives, it's a lot of just sitting with a woman, hearing what she's going through and helping her come up with solutions which are just things that she's going to try out, and so much of it does, at that point revolve around feeding the baby, something I never even thought about. I thought breastfeeding was going to be super duper easy oh yes, it's all natural.
Dr Wilson:Yes, oh my god, and that's what kills me too. I thought I was literally. I had this vision of myself I'm at my desk, I've got my baby in my right arm because I'm left-handed, I'm breastfeeding and I'm typing with my left hand sipping my coffee. Everything is great. And you know, if you could have seen me baby actually arrived, I was a mess.
Dr Wilson:And again, thank God I had my mother, because I was like I don't know if she's getting enough to eat, like I don't feel like I'm making enough milk. There's all these. There were all these questions, all this anxiety, and I think having a woman there with me who had been through it so many times was helpful for me. Um, I think too, if I had, if I had known where to go for professional support like at the time I didn't know what an IBCLC was I would have hired a lactation consultant if I had known that this was a thing. But it was a huge part of my journey and my questions, and so that's another part of the book. There's a little supplemental guide people can download feeding your baby like just a heads up. You might feel like this is a thing for you, and if you do, here are resources.
Peter:Yeah, no, that's again. That is a huge, huge point that I think a lot of people kind of gloss over or forget. I've spoken to several lactation consultants in over the course of the last well, since I began the podcast a few years ago, but obviously the last decade that I've been in the postpartum world, I've spoken to a few of them and I think people are more aware of, like breastfeeding classes and all that type of stuff. The largest charity that does I say charity, I'll air quote the charity but the largest non-profit in the uk that does antenatal classes is very heavy on the breastfeeding element of it. They, they push that very, very hard first of all, to the point that women almost feel guilty if they can't breastfeed right.
Peter:But one of the statistics that I came across that shocked me the most is that 75% of women feel they're probably not, um, not producing enough milk.
Peter:Only 50 percent of women, however, ask their medical professional whether they are. So we have a huge, huge difference between the two and and the research the study didn't go past and I'll link to it and I quoted it before in an episode I've done with a lactation consultant if everybody wants to look it up. But I'll put it in the show notes for anybody listening, Just so you know I'm not pulling this figure out of my ass, but it's for me, and I didn't say why this was, but for me it has to almost be a sense of shame and a sense of embarrassment, almost, oh my God, I am not producing enough milk. Therefore, by definition, I am not and I'll echo this a suitable mother. Do you know what I mean? As in that feeling it's not helping. As in that feeling it's not helping. But it's insane to me that there is such a large discrepancy between the women who feel that probably the baby is probably not getting enough and the number of women who are comfortable seeking help from a medical professional.
Dr Wilson:Yeah, I think you have really hit the nail on the head there, because we, you know, we become mothers in this bubble or in this fishbowl of a culture that makes it very easy for us to feel validated in putting our identities and our needs and our wants secondary to other people in our lives, right, and so mother is just another natural extension of that where we will be celebrated again. Maybe not this time for being thin or being beautiful, or being young, but or or being successful now, but but maybe now we'll be celebrated for how selflessly can we raise this?
Dr Wilson:baby how can we just give and give and give and ask for nothing in return, because a baby can't. I mean, a baby will give us all the love, but in the beginning, like you're giving and you're giving and you're giving, and so, yeah, I think the breastfeeding is just, it can be for a lot of us, um, a metaphor, or a metaphor that we live through of am I doing enough? Am I being enough? Am I good at this? Because there's, it's, it's so um, linked with our identity. And I, I struggled with PIMS. I didn't know what PIMS was until I, you know, started doing the research. Um, and again, I had my mother, thank goodness. She was like, listen, she's like your baby is growing and you have wet diapers and you have like dirty diapers every day. Those are the essential signs. And I was like, okay, but it never made the anxiety go away, it never made the worry go away, it never made the shame go away. And, um, yeah, I remember deciding to um, I also had a lot of external pressure my um, my daughter's dad's.
Dr Wilson:He's from ecuador and his family very latin american, so so there's a huge um, at least in this household, guilt is a thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I was getting a lot of messages about you should be giving us more milk. You should be giving us more milk because I went back to work four weeks after my daughter was born, so I have to pump. I have to, like, figure all this out and and it was never enough they would show up at work trying to have me pump between patients so that I could end them off with more milk.
Dr Wilson:It was just awful, and so for me, I did decide to bring formula in at six months, and it was also a very emotional transition, like there is nothing objective or clearheaded or easy about becoming a parent, especially for the first time, but probably every time, and I think too, that's where the support comes in. That's why it's number one. You got to have people to talk to, people to rely on. You have to know that your medical team should be in your corner. If you ever feel like they're not in your corner, you have the right to advocate for that. Your partner has the right to stand in the room and advocate for you.
Peter:Oh, yeah, absolutely, and especially when you're dealing with them. I I always again. I've dealt with this for a while and I come at this very much aware that I'm a white middle-aged guy, right, so I'm not teaching anybody to suck eggs here, but I am very much in the camp of listen. Your job as a parent whether male or female doesn't really matter is to keep the baby alive as best you can. After that, I genuinely I don't care what you would you feed the baby. You can raise a kid on cheeseburgers until they're 18. They'll still be alive and, okay, they won't be healthy. There might be issues with it, but do you know what I mean?
Peter:For me, it strikes me as insane that the switch, that breastfeeding, gets pushed so hard that women feel guilty about keeping their child alive by giving something that is completely fine, such as formula that has been really well tested and it's a complete food. And you know, would breast be better? Yeah, maybe. Is vaginal birth better than a C-section? Yeah, maybe, but you know, the big thing is we're keeping the kid alive first, and everything after that is completely secondary.
Peter:Um, and I think that that message isn't currently that much in in the, especially in the antenatal community and the postnatal community. It just isn't there. Because when you go to antenatal classes they'll tell you well, you know, and this will happen and that will happen. Nothing ever bad, ever happens, and they'll, they'll push that best is best sort of message so hard to the point that you'll get that, um, and it's not even a cultural thing then, as in I understand, in loads of south american countries it's.
Peter:It's funny because in africa it's the even a cultural thing. Then I understand, in loads of South American countries it's funny because in Africa it's the opposite. Apparently An Africa formula is like huge, which is completely different. But we've in the West, we have this weird culture of privilege that we almost assume that whatever we're going to do, natural is best. But nature intended you to breastfeed and therefore everything else is shit and therefore you suck out being a thing and that's a very privileged position to be in. But I think we could quite often do with checking that a little bit. Yeah.
Dr Wilson:That's huge, god. I don't even know what to say because I feel like I have so many things I could say, but I think the most important thing that I want to share right now because I can't tell you 10 things at once the most important thing that I want to share is that for me, when I did start switching to formula, you know what I believe that breast milk is absolutely an extremely healthy thing for our kids, and I'm grateful that I was able to breastfeed my daughter for six months. I continued for another couple months doing both, but as a naturopathic doctor, one thing that I did know, and one thing that I didn't know how to find the answers to that I didn't know about, was how can I help my daughter have the best experience with formula. It started with picking a clean formula.
Dr Wilson:I think in Europe and in the UK you guys have access to these really beautiful companies that create clean formulas that maybe we don't have the same degree of access to in the States that was my experience but I did find a company that I really loved.
Dr Wilson:I bought their formula and then to it I added, or I started giving her little tiny bits of like baby probiotics because I wanted her to still have the you know have access to building a healthy microbiome from the time that you know.
Dr Wilson:As soon as I could, and then in six months, I also started giving her little tiny bits of baby food, and not not necessarily baby food, but I would cook up a sweet potato and give her a bite. I would just do little little things like that here and there, but I think for me it was the probiotics, and then it was like adding in a bite of of really like just fruits and vegetables, starting as simply as possible home cooked, because you know food that comes from the earth, food that's as close to the earth as possible, is going to be the healthiest for us. And so that was what I did and it really helped me feel better about my decision to give her formula a clean formula, food at six months, just small bites, bites and then baby probiotics as appropriate yeah, and and I think that I think that's a huge point you made that there that you, just as long as you do the best you can right it.
Peter:You're doing the best you can. If, if you find it okay, I have to switch the formula, I'll try to get the best formula I can. I'll. I'll try to add something else to make it a bit healthier or makes me feel like I'm doing a bit more than just what society tells me I'm doing, which is giving up. Because that is, let's be honest, when people switch from breastfeeding to formula because they can't breastfeed, the first feeling is feeling that people are are describing to me, saying I felt like I was giving up because that's what everybody else told me I was doing right, because nine out of ten times when you're struggling breastfeeding, you get that just can't just continue, just push through, it'll come, it'll. Weeks later it still doesn't come and all then, therefore, it feels like it feels like giving up. I think that's a huge point where you say now you just do the best you can in a different way. Um, and that is kind of what this whole postpartum thing for me is kind of about. Like I said, keeping the kid alive is and as healthy as you can.
Peter:And again, everything like when you're describing okay, we have a clean formula, for instance, it's bound to be slightly more expensive than the other stuff and especially with the prices of formula in the US, it's absolutely disgraceful. I was stunned when I saw just how expensive it is and that food stamps don't cover formula and all that type of stuff. Right, that to me, is disgraceful. But you buy the best you can. That doesn't mean that if you can't afford the best stuff, that you should feel embarrassed that you can't afford it. You just again, it's something that you said in the blurb on Amazon as someone who's relatively privileged, as in relatively well to do, I'm in the same boat. I've got a bit of money and therefore I can afford to buy better quality projects. Um, but if I, if you can't, there's nothing wrong with buying cheaper apples. Yep, um, I, as long as you're buying apples, you're just doing the best you can.
Dr Wilson:Yes, I could not agree with that more, and I think, at the end of the day too, as humans, like before we need anything else, we need to know that we're loved.
Dr Wilson:Babies need that the most of all, and so I think like letting parents know that too that the number one thing your kids need is love.
Dr Wilson:That's the number one thing. So if your baby knows that it's loved, that there is scientific evidence out there now, there is research that shows that that the power of love and the power of touch and the power of comfort and the effects it has on the human immune system and you probably are aware of this research, that you know those babies that aren't touched, the failure to thrive and then they pass away Love is the most profound thing that we can offer our child, the most profound thing. So so again, yes, I am so glad that you said that, because for people who might not be able to afford the most high dollar, expensive formulas, for example, that is not the most important thing. The most important thing is that you're there for your baby and that you love your baby and that you love yourself too, because kids need to be raised by parents and by adults who mirror self-love and who mirror self-respect and self-care, because that's how we teach them that they are worthy and they are valuable yeah, no, that again.
Peter:That is huge. And when you're talking about the, the research has been done. There's quite a few very unethical studies that were done a long, long time ago about this type of stuff. What happens if you just leave babies for a few hours? You can't do those studies anymore, but you know they were horrible and they were cruel, but they're also very useful in regards to what we learned from it. You just shouldn't do those studies anymore. But we all remember, for instance, the and this is on youtube and again I'll link to it if I can find it the mirroring study that was done If a parent keeps their face completely still and doesn't smile and doesn't frown, and how babies respond to that, and that's a frightening video.
Peter:If you ever want to watch that on YouTube, you want to spend five minutes realizing just how important it is for babies to be around. People that emote for want of a better face and just have some that are not complete psychopaths that just that is huge. That video is is and again, I come at this as a middle-aged white guy, so my upbringing was very much I'm a gen x right, we got left outside a lot when we were younger and parents didn't care that much. So when you see those videos, you're like, ah yes, this is all the unlearning we have to do. Um, but it's, it's those, those things are, those things are huge. And then when you're talking about, indeed, touch and all that sort of thing, they You're probably better off buying cheaper produce and learning baby massage than you are buying expensive produce and not doing baby massage. Do you know what I mean?
Dr Wilson:I love it yeah.
Peter:Just the overall experience. I think, especially when it comes to postpartum and planning postpartum, you're planning the overall experience Too often. I think, especially when it comes to postpartum and planning postpartum, you're planning the overall experience Too often. I think we segment and that's why, like I said, when I got your message and I looked into post right and so it was 360 pages. That's the Amazon count, that's not my own count. Amazon says free. You know it's going to be good when there's 360 pages, right, you know you're getting value for your 18 pounds or 18 bucks I don't know if it's about 20 bucks or something like that.
Peter:Yeah, the hardcover copy is 18, currently on the Amazon website, 18 pounds 66. So it's about 20, 25 bucks right in US dollars, working out in your own currency for listing somewhere else. Um, but you know you're getting value for money if you're getting 300 pages and you know that someone has put a lot of effort into it. It's not a leaflet and quite often we're given leaflets when it comes to postpartum planning. We're getting this is your nutrition leaflet, this is your sleep leaflet and this is your whatever in the hell else? Leaflet, whereas you've put together a very nice, comprehensive, do the best you can out of all these things sort of book yeah well, thank you for saying that, thank you for looking into it.
Peter:Oh, yeah, well I'd get into a lot of trouble if I didn't. Oh yeah, well, I'd get into a lot of trouble if I didn't but but but that's the thing, isn't it?
Peter:I mean, we have to. When you're talking about the four big pillars, you're talking about more than just a leaflet worth of information about the four, and that is why you're talking about more than just a leaflet worth of information about the four, and that is why I think it's it's it's so valuable because, without arming yourself with that knowledge, like and like you said, a lot of women come to you postpartum when they're already in trouble, so to speak. Right, because that's when people come to me, right From my, from my PT's's perspective, I'm a mess. Can you sort this out? That is nine out of ten times. That's the question I get. Um, and it doesn't mean the answer is no, it just means yeah, okay, of course, we can just a bit more work now than it would have been a while ago. Right, that is, that is just the way it is. But you meet people where they are is what I would always say, but you can't catch up on 360 pages of information two weeks postpartum when you just had a baby, right?
Peter:So getting the book now and what? What would you say just to, just to end, because I've been blowing smoke up your hooky for a little while now with regards to how wonderful the book is, but it's, it's. What would you think? What do you say? The top three things is that you wish people would take away from the book that you're like. Okay if, if you read the book and you plow through the pages and there's a lot of information, take these three things or two things or whatever the most important things, if you take these from the book, you'll be better than you are if you, if you don't read the book, so to speak yeah, I think number one.
Dr Wilson:The number one thing that I would say is that I I tried to make it as comprehensive as I could, so it it can be. It's not necessarily going to be a book that people read cover to cover. It's going to be a guide, a reference. So when you have a question about something, whether it's heartburn in pregnancy or postpartum thyroiditis, you go to one place, it's that book. You go to one place, it's that book.
Dr Wilson:The second thing I would say is building your postpartum self-care plan as soon as you can is so, so important, and really taking the time to think about who's going to be in your support system is everything.
Dr Wilson:So that is one of the most important pieces of the self-care plan.
Dr Wilson:In fact, when I have women who come to me postpartum and they've got nothing going on, they've got nothing set up for themselves. That's where we start and usually that's we. We spend a lot of time focusing because she's got to know who's in her corner, and the very last thing I would say is is the whole theme, the whole purpose of the book is to help women build the self-care muscle which comes from self-worth. You have to know that you're worthy and that you're worth it. You're worth taking care of, and when you take care of yourself now, it becomes such an ingrained habit that you raise a son or a daughter who sees a woman taking care of herself, and that changes the world, because you raise a new generation of kids who don't question women who say no when they want to say no. They don't question women who take time for themselves or who put their own needs and wants first. It's that important that we, as women, build this self-care muscle as soon as we can, and in pregnancy is the perfect time to do it.
Peter:Yeah, no, I would completely, completely agree with that. I always. You know your job as a parent to come back to, other than keeping your kid alive, is essentially raising a well-functioning adult, right? That is the point ofing adult right? That is the point of of the exercise, that is the whole point of having kids. You end up with someone who's an adult, who's reasonably intact, as mentally okay as they could possibly be. Um, and you know it does it just start with the example you said. It's exactly right, and that starts from a very, very young age.
Peter:It's amazing the difference I see between people parents who look after themselves one way or the other, who look after themselves, and how well their kids are performing in school and in day-to-day life. It's astonishing. It's all monkey see, monkey do at that age for the first five, six, seven years, right until the rebellious phase sets in, and even then the habits you've created for the first five years carry through. And I see that with people, with teenagers now, who I've known for a long, long time, that always looked after themselves. The teenagers are still teenagers, but they're different teenagers from the teenagers that say we used to be, and when they say me, I mean the royal me as in my generation they look after themselves, they have boundaries.
Peter:They're reasonably sane as far as teenagers go, because all teenagers are jackasses right, that is just the way it is but from them. But they're, but they're okay with it and they can function in society. They're not the uk reference, they're not the kevin and perry as in, they can't carry on a conversation anymore the spotty teenager that we all used to know they're. They're, they're little adults, and I think that is the big difference between people who, like you said, respect themselves and take care of themselves and practice that self-care and people who, for some reason or another and again, very little judgment here, a little bit of a little bit judgment, but very little for some people who don't manage to do that. Anyways, was there anything else you wanted to touch on? Because I think we covered a lot of good stuff.
Dr Wilson:I think so too.
Peter:Cool.
Peter:Well, on that happy note, I will press stop record here and, as always, press stop record is exactly what it is. Thanks so much to Emilyily for coming on. Like I said, her book is called post the essential guide to creating your postpartum self-care plan in pregnancy and I know I talk about this a lot of this subject, this subject comes up quite a lot, but it's so important, right, this really is as dinky snores in the background, this really is one of those things that you know. It makes your postpartum life so much easier, so much easier. If you plan for it during pregnancy and everybody needs a guide or a reference guide to help, you're going to miss stuff, you're not going to know everything. And a comprehensive guide and this thing thing is comprehensive, let me tell you, um, right, a comprehensive guide like this is is a really valuable asset, uh, to get to get. So, yes, it's all. It's all well and good to buy in the baby books and how to raise a baby, but, but the self-care plan postpartum if you can prepare for that during your pregnancy, you'll make the world of difference to yourself, to your own health and to your own, especially to your own mental health. So you know.
Peter:On that happy note, check it out. Link is in the podcast description. And you know, I wouldn't recommend it if I didn't believe it right, because I don't get paid for this. Recommend it if I didn't believe it right Because I don't get paid for this, so I don't take any commissions. So if I say a book is worth checking out, it's worth checking out, right? Peter at HealthyPostnatalBodycom, if you have any questions or comments or would like me to discuss any subjects or speak to any people, just give me a shout. Here's a new bit of music and I'll be back next week with a Q&A. Right, take care, bye now. Bye, baby, thank you, bye Baby. Ay, contigo, yo me pierdo Como un topo. Me tienes dando vueltas, baby, da da dando vueltas, baby, ay.