The Healthy Post Natal Body Podcast
The Healthy Post Natal Body Podcast
Understanding and Preventing Pediatric Eating Disorders: Expert Insights with Jessica Setnick
This week I have the absolute pleasure of being joined by pediatric eating expert Jessica Setnick ( MS,RD, CEDRD-S).
Jessica is one of my favourite guests to have had on the show.
We are talking everything to do with eating disorders in children;
How it can start, how you can tell there are issues and how to start resolving it.
Basically this is all about how you can help your child have a healthy relationship with food, regardless of whether they currently have one or not.
This is an absolutely essential conversation for every parent to be aware of as pediatric eating disorders are extremely common and, quite often, preventable/fixable with a bit of work (to be fair, sometimes a lot of work).
You can find Jessica here
Her website
And this is where you can get the workbook. Remember to use code "PODCAST" to get a whopping $30 off! (From $45 down to $15!)
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Playing us out this week; "Keys to the castle" by Salon Dijon
Hey, welcome to the Healthy Postnatal Body Podcast with your postnatal expert, peter Lap That. As always with me, this is a podcast for the 9th of Feb 2025. And today I have a wonderful, wonderful interview with a pediatric eating specialist, jessica Setnick. We're talking overcoming and preventing eating disorders in children and all that sort of stuff. You are going to love this one. I'm this video did of this. This podcast is audio only, but I love it when an expert comes on that knows so much that whenever I ask my dumb questions, you can almost hear the eye rolling. Really, trust me, you're gonna love this. We're going to talk about what, some of the causes of pediatric eating disorders, some of the solutions, what you can do, and all that type of stuff. It's a great. It's a great half hour. So, without further ado, here we go. So eating disorders in children just how common is it?
Jessica:Okay. So this should be an easy question to answer, right, but it's not. But let me start by saying that if we want the short answer, the short answer is that one out of every 40 children that's between zero and 18 right now will experience an eating disorder sometime in their life. Nice, one in 40. So that's more common than diabetes. That's more common than almost anything you can probably think of. It's a lot Doesn't say that they're all going to have that eating disorder in childhood, but one out of 40 kids from zero to 18 right now will have an eating disorder during their life.
Jessica:That's the statistic. Okay, the long answer is eating disorders is a very specific term, right? A medical diagnosis that has specific criteria. And after working in the eating disorder field for only a short time now now it's been 26 years, but even a very short time of working in the field I realized that those specific definitions are not helping anybody because they only count people who have gotten to a severe state and we are trying to catch eating problems in children a long time before they get to that diagnosable state.
Jessica:And so when you say how common are eating disorders in children, the statistics we have are 100% based on who gets diagnosed and who gets treatment, and I believe that there are a lot of problems that people have, children have, that could either lead to eating disorders, but aren't that severe yet, or are just always going to stay at a sort of sub-severe level and are still impairing someone's functioning. So I think eating disorders in children is sort of a it's almost a trick question to me, even though I gave you the answer. The truth is, eating issues in children, if we expand the terminology, are extremely common because for the most part, children are living in society and our society is just drenched in dysfunctional eating behaviors.
Peter:Well, you're definitely not wrong about the last bit and it's interesting because indeed, because I come across this because 1 in 40 still sounds like a lot. Like you said, it's really common, but I think for most people it doesn't sound like that much because 1 in 40, you know, it's one of my surgeon clients.
Jessica:It's basically one in every big kindergarten class today, right?
Peter:now?
Peter:Because because one of my surgeon clients would always say to people that people don't understand risk right, two and two and a half percent doesn't sound like a tremendous amount, whereas if she said so, she used to do like colorectal surgery and and and that type of stuff, and she always used to point out that if she said to someone like colorectal surgery, and and and that type of stuff, and she always used to point out that if you said to someone there's a five percent chance that or a one in twenty chance that something could go wrong, they'll be fine, that'll be grand, that's not that bad.
Peter:And then she said if I put 20 people in a room and I tell them one of you is likely going to have complications from this, then they're all like well, wait a minute, maybe, maybe not so much. And it's interesting that you then say okay, if you then expand it to be outside that very narrow definition of eating disorders, that is then significantly more common. I think most parents that I know will at least know someone, or know of someone who is more than just air quote, a picky eater yeah right, and, and it's, it's the and, and that is really what, what?
Peter:what we're talking about? So, for instance, you know, I, I know the story of, of, of, of a relatively young lady who is, uh, who is quite a bit underweight and is a problematic eater but is not anorexic, if, if you know, as in within the narrow time so she doesn't not eat. But how do you help prevent it escalating to the next level and even hopefully, help them recover from something like that?
Jessica:Okay. So that's two very big questions. So helping someone recover is a really hard, long process and there's not even any consensus in the field on whether you can be for lack of a better word cured. So I prefer terms like remission, where someone hasn't had any symptoms in five years. I sort of borrow that from the oncology field.
Jessica:So to me someone can be in remission from their eating disorder, but it's sort of a lifelong chronic condition for many people, sort of like eczema or something like that, where you say you know you have it, but you have a flare up, you may not have any symptoms. It can be controlled with medicine, that kind of thing. So I would say an eating disorder can be managed, even if not cured. There are some people who say that a full recovery is possible, but there's no agreement on what that would look like. So does that mean you never have any thoughts or temptations to restrict your food or to use a compensatory behavior? I believe that recovery, true recovery, means any of those urges stay in the thought level and don't necessarily be acted upon, because you can't, I believe, control your automatic thoughts.
Jessica:And so, for example, I would consider myself in a good recovery, having not had any symptoms of my eating disorder in quite a lot of years. But I might look in the mirror and say, huh, I wonder if I've gained weight, should I lose weight, even though maybe medically, no one would suggest that I lose weight. So, to me, having that thought and then saying, oh, look, there's that thought again and moving on, is recovery, as opposed to not eating or eating and then throwing up or something like that. So that to me is recovery. So to get to that place takes a lot of analyzing your thoughts and rethinking them. So you have your thought, but you have to come up with different ways of handling them.
Jessica:And a lot of recovery also, in my opinion, includes medication, because a lot of people don't recognize that the roots of an eating disorder are biological. They may be genetic, not necessarily inherited genetic, but it could be genetic mutations. It could be things that are environmental, like COVID can cause an eating disorder, different things like that, a concussion can cause an eating disorder. So there's a lot of biological. And then, when you're in the soup or the pool of diet culture. Those seeds can get watered and then develop into an eating disorder. So that's the answer to how to recover.
Jessica:We need to treat the underlying medical condition if it's depression, if it's anxiety, if it's obsessive compulsive disorder, and then there's a long-term work on the thoughts and then there's a long-term work on the eating behaviors. The other question you asked is how do we prevent? I'm not sure we can prevent all eating disorders, but this is something I speak about quite often, and just two nights ago I gave a talk to school nurses about what we could be doing to prevent eating disorders in kids. And the number one thing is we need to change the way that we talk about food and eating and bodies with kids, because we need to be actively trying to counteract diet culture instead of accidentally or passively allowing it to go unchecked, and I can elaborate on what that means to me if you would like.
Peter:Oh yeah, that'd be awesome, because one of the things I was going to ask is how, how important to, let's say, prevent escalation of an eating disorder, or prevent eating disorders to some extent is is building a healthy relationship with food and and that going both ways right, and I love.
Jessica:I love that you use that term a healthy relationship with food. That is something that I would say. 25 years ago I was going and giving talks and using the words healthy relationship with food and people were raising their hand and saying what does that mean? Or even saying you can't have a relationship with food because it's an inanimate object. They were arguing with me and now it's, I think, worked its way into our cultural consciousness Right, and so I love that you use that terminology, even not being an eating expert at all so that's great.
Jessica:The healthy relationship with food is the key. It's so much more important than any one food a child does or doesn't eat. But it's so easy to get sort of goal oriented, like if my child will just eat one green vegetable a day, they'll be okay.
Jessica:It's our anxiety over it, right, and so we project that onto our kids and and that's what we're trying to do. So the number one thing we can do to prevent eating issues in our kids is work on our own eating issues, and that I actually teach a workshop called healing your inner eater, which is all about what's going own eating issues, and that I actually teach a workshop called Healing your Inner Eater, which is all about what's going on with us and how did we get the things that we believe about food? Who taught those to us and do we want to keep those? Were those? Was that correct information or did that come from someone else's sort of dysfunctional eating behaviors?
Jessica:And so taking care of ourselves and rethinking everything we think we know about eating is really step one, and then step two is being really age appropriate with kids. So it's really tempting to say okay, I'm thinking of someone who is upper divine, whose child is now out of college and working as a teacher. So it's rewind back to when this child was maybe eight years old and she said I'm starting to get worried about my child's size. So again, our anxiety as adults. And she said when we leave church, they always have donuts and she always wants a donut, and so I say, no, we're not having donuts, but when we get home you can have an apple. Do you think that's the right thing to do? And I said first of all, I want you to know that, as a parent, you can always make the decision about what is provided to your child by someone outside of the home right.
Jessica:So if you don't want your child to eat a donut, that's totally legit. But I would encourage you not to say you can't have a donut, you can have an apple, and instead to say, no, we're not having donuts right now Because otherwise you're painting the donut as something they can't have, which we all want, more of what we can't have. You're painting the donut as a negative compared to the apple as a positive. Right, there's all this. And she said I'm so glad you said that because the reason I called you is because for the very first time, my child lied to me, and when I picked her up from my mom's house and asked her if she'd had anything to eat, she said no, and later my mom told me that in fact she had had something to eat, which was fine. It was the lying, that was the issue, and so I didn't know that part at first. Right, but that's the kind of behavior that we start to develop in kids is sneak eating and lying and those kind of things, hiding food, if we start to portray food as something that has moral value or other kids can have it, but you can't have it, that kind of thing.
Jessica:And so, age appropriate, talking about food is something really important. It's so tempting to say to a child that has too much sugar in it or something like that and that's really not. Again, it's not age appropriate. Children don't have discernment. They're so specific. So if you say that I'll just use sugary cereal because people love to pick on that, that sugary cereal is bad for you. If they go to a friend's house and they're offered sugary cereal, they feel like I shouldn't eat that because it's bad for me. Or if they see a friend eating it, don't eat that, it's bad for you. They don't understand moderation, these kinds of concepts that we try to use on kids. They don't understand that. We barely understand those things right. So it's very. We need to be talking about things like fueling and energy and is your tummy hungry? And things that are really age appropriate for kids, and not putting these intangible ideas in their minds, especially moral values on food yeah, and that's a really interesting one, because I think everybody might from my generation and I'm 50.
Peter:As I always point out in the in the listeners, I'm 50, so I was raised. With that, you will finish what's on your plate.
Jessica:Oh my gosh, peter, I'm 52, I'm right there with you. For me it was children starving in china and of course you think how is me finishing the food gonna solve things for children in china? Right, and, by the way, there were kids that were hungry across the street. We didn't have to go to china to find them, but I'm so with you. Please go on.
Peter:So so it's because because I still hear that from parents and I always cringe a little bit when they say, when the child has clearly had enough, they, they've eaten and they're they're done. It's not like they're leaving two brussels sprouts and they've eaten all the dessert, right, they've kind of just, I'm done, I'm done eating, and it took me such a long time and and I don't have any sort of problematic eating behaviors, but I do have I can easily have a problematic relationship with food in that I can take, like kind of like, what you said. I can take the way I was raised out on somebody else quite, quite comfortable, by saying no, but this is what you need to do, cause I can almost hear my dad's voice.
Jessica:You know what?
Peter:I mean or and and and to, to, to break away from that it's. It now makes me cringe when I hear other people say things like yeah, starving kids were in Ethiopia for us, and and Starving kids were in Ethiopia for us. And when a child says they've had enough or they don't feel like it, to just leave that Right Sounds like a positive step for me.
Jessica:Yeah, letting them trust their inner wisdom. Yes, so I have two things to share with you for anyone who's thinking that same thing. How are we going to heal our inner eater, right? How are we going to understand this differently? One is sort of scientific. If you right now put your two, put your hands into fists and then put those two fists together, so no one can see what I'm doing, but I just put my two hands into fists, put my fists together, this is the size of your stomach approximately. So think of a little kid, think of their two little teeny hands that they put in their mittens.
Jessica:They make them into fists, put them in. Now. Your stomach can stretch somewhat, that's a fact. But that is the size of a child's stomach. The amount of food that will fill that stomach is pretty small. So that's one thing. Whatever we visualize and put on a plate and imagine that a child should eat has nothing to do with what is actually their capacity for eating. The other thing is, children are all of us, except there's some exceptions of medically ill children, I will grant you that. But most healthy kids have an internal cue of how much they need to eat, and when. That's just. I mean, you know that if you've ever, you know, nursed a baby or bottle fed a baby, you know that they at some point they just go and they sort of spit out the nipple.
Jessica:They're done Right and and so it. There's a very fascinating study that was done by some dietitians at least 20 years ago and they gave three-year-olds and five-year-olds were their study participants. On different days they gave them different size plates of food, so it was always macaroni and cheese small plate, small portion, big plate, big portion, medium size plate, medium size portion. And what they found was that the three-year-olds, no matter what size plate or portion you gave them, the three-year-olds would eat what they wanted and then move on, go play. The five-year-olds would eat a different amount depending on how much you offered them, and so what we take away from that is somewhere between three and five.
Jessica:We are conditioning kids to stop listening to what is on their internal cues and we are conditioning them to eat what we imagine they should eat or what we want them to eat. And when we detach children from their internal cues, they are then excuse me, they are then easily tempted that's not the right word Eas, easily impressionable to supersize portions, or you know the perfect example here, and I don't know what your portions are like where you live, but a pound of pasta here costs about a dollar, which I think is pretty equivalent.
Peter:Yeah, that's about right.
Jessica:Yeah, yeah. If a restaurant's going to sell it to you for $12 or $24, why wouldn't they put a pound of pasta?
Peter:on a plate and, by the way, $1 is the retail cost.
Jessica:They bought it at wholesale right, so you feel like you got a great value, but there's way too much food on your plate for your stomach. But if we've conditioned kids to eat whatever is on their plate, then they're at the mercy of whoever put the food on their plate sure, no, no.
Peter:And that's a really good point, because I I always, I always used to give this example with regards to restaurants portion sizes. I always used to if I go to a higher end restaurant and I don't do that often because but if I go to a high-end restaurant with a tasting menu five course tasting menu every dish tends to be small and every plate tends to be have a small amount of food on it, but by the time.
Peter:I leave the restaurant a couple hours later, I'm completely content, as in. I'm happy as a clam. I've had nice food, I've had enough food and my body goes. Yeah, that's about right, because these people have thought about it. If I go to a cheaper place and I pay significantly less for food, but I get a mountain of food, I always leave going. Either I've left a lot of food on my plate or I leave going. Yeah, I ate too much and I feel terrible, and it is exactly like what you said, and this will be a hang-up of my childhood and all that. If you put a large amount of food in front of me, I almost still feel obliged to eat it because it would be rude not to those poor kids.
Jessica:Well, it would be rude. And then there's the starving children in Ethiopia. And then we haven't even mentioned the whole. I paid for that food, so you're going to eat it. Yes, I paid for that, yeah exactly.
Peter:And now that translates to oh, but I paid for that food, so you're going to eat it. Yeah, yeah, yes, I paid for that. Yeah, exactly, and now that translates to oh, but I paid for it, right. Or and definitely it would be a waste, Whereas I now understand you know much more of the I've had enough and therefore, by definition, it's not wasteful. I might have cooked a bit too much, I can have some tomorrow, and all that.
Jessica:And I will grant you that food waste is something that touches the heart of every dietitian. We don't want food waste. We don't want food in the trash. Can we want to come up with other solutions? Order less, don't be as hungry when you get to the restaurant so your eyes aren't bigger than your stomach. Ask for a to-go container and take it with you, even if you're going to give it to a homeless person, and you know we want all of those things.
Jessica:But at the end of the day, if the only two choices are eat it or throw it away, if those are literally your only choices, to me it's either trash in your body or trash in a trash. Can I mean? Granted, your body knows what to do with excess food that you eat once in a while. It just gets stored and used later, no problem. But from the emotional point of view, the guilt of feeling like you have to eat food that you are not hungry for and you don't want that is something that, as a culture, we need to really stop indoctrinating more people into that cult yeah, because again that comes back to that healthy relationship with food and all that type of thing.
Peter:It's the if you in our kids, I suppose, if we're creating that you either eat everything on your plate or don't eat anything at all right, because it's always extremes then the only um, the, the psychological impact of what we're creating, I suppose, will last much longer than we actually think about.
Jessica:Because, yes, yes, and you haven't even talked yet about the whole, but your mommy slaved over that food for you, so you need to eat it if you love her right. There's so much. The psychological impact of what we do is intense and I'm glad that you don't have the genes for an eating disorder because that right you didn't develop one.
Jessica:Great, but we don't know who does and who doesn't. We do know that if you have a relative with an eating disorder, you probably have a gene in there somewhere, because you have a much higher chance. We also know that relatives of people with alcoholism have a higher chance of eating disorders.
Jessica:So we don't know what that is, what that connection is, but it's not necessarily learned behavior, it's something internal. So, yeah, the psychological issues are the are the biggest part. I think it's not just I got bad advice about food right. It's not. Yeah, it's more the impact of am I disappointing someone by not eating this right?
Peter:it's that aspect of it, yeah so does that when we get to people who have slight problems of eating so not full-on eating disorders, but kids especially? Does the why matter?
Jessica:Oh, my goodness, You're speaking my language, peter. Wow, yes, the motive. The motive is so important. So if you have, let's say you have two teenagers sitting at lunch in school and they're both having only a salad for lunch. One of them says oh yeah, I'm only eating a salad for lunch because after school my uncle is in town from America and we're going out to an early dinner and so I just am having a salad because I'm going to be eating dinner at 4 30 today. And the other child says oh no, I'm only eating salad because I'm scared to eat anything besides salad.
Peter:It might make me fat so it's not the salad right yeah, exactly one thousand percent it's the why yes and does it matter when it comes to dealing with kids who do have actually problematic behaviors with around food? So not eating enough or eating too much or binge eating or whatever it is, and again, like you said, mainly the lying about food, that type of stuff. I would almost class it as early addictive behavior as in the behavior of an addict. I don't mean to put a judgment on that, I just mean that that's a little bit, that can be a bit tricky. But does it then for recovery? Does it matter why they do, why they're not eating as much or why they're eating too much?
Jessica:so when we get stressed, eating not eating, exercising, throwing up all of those things change our brain chemistry.
Peter:So, yes, I think that there are connections and similarities and reasons that people use food, but there's also differences of course, of the point I was indeed hoping to get to was that, from my understanding, a lot of and I have some experience in this a lot of addictive behavior is about control or loss of control. And is food and I'm not saying food is addictive, I'm not saying sugar is addictive in the way that some people claim it like at all right? Sugar isn't the new cocaine or any of that type of nonsense. I'm just asking are eating disorders and light eating, so not full eating problematic behavior around eating? Is that? Is that usually about control, or is it a similar sort of thing? And therefore does the treatment or the help that you give, does that come from a similar background?
Jessica:So I don't think there's anything universal, but yes, for some people certainly don't think there's anything universal, but yes, for some people, certainly. For some people it's not necessarily control. That's maybe not quite the right word, but it's seeking something. It's seeking to feel better, right?
Jessica:People don't throw up their food to get high but, someone must be feeling bad if that makes them feel better, and so we're looking for the reason that someone is feeling so bad that that is the severity level of what they have to do to their brain chemistry to feel better, and so that can be something different for different people. So that could be disappointment and loss. It could be grief type of loss, it could be rejection. It can be feeling inadequate. It could be it's not usually going to be feeling happy, but for some people that could be rejection. It can be feeling inadequate. It could be it's not usually going to be feeling happy, but for some people that could be a very uncomfortable situation.
Jessica:So feelings are chemicals too, and so I would say it's more oriented toward feelings in general than control itself. I think control could be a feeling or loss of control or feeling trapped. Those are all feelings that could generate dysfunctional eating behaviors. But I wouldn't want to generalize or globalize and say control is the feeling that everyone is experiencing who has an eating disorder yeah sure, yeah, no, that's that.
Peter:that's that's a really good point, because it's one of those things that a lot of the things that we see around and it's kind of like what you said a lot of the behaviors that I suppose people see in their children is just a reflection of themselves, isn't it? And I'm not saying that the child has anything behavioral issue and therefore you have one but, or that the parents are to blame, but a lot of the the, the ideas around food, the relationship around food comes from nature, from from nurture rather than nature, even though, like you said that there isn't, there is a genetic element to it yeah.
Jessica:So the I I agree with you, but I think parents and and the way we view food is just one drop in the bucket compared to the whole society. So it's we all grew up in, or are swimming in the same swimming pool of diet culture that our kids are into. So yes, I'm glad you said not to blame parents, because that's not what causes eating disorders. It's sort of sometimes the way we view food as a solution or food as a problem that causes eating disorders, and that can come from lots of different places too. That can come from schools, that can come from I mean, the number of children, patients that that eating disorder dieticians have seen, whose eating disorder started from a scary food related movie that they watched in health class, is innumerable.
Peter:The whole Super Size Me type documentaries.
Jessica:Yes, so that, to me, is really. I think what we do in the home is a reflection of that, and what most loving parents are trying to do is protect their kids. What most loving parents are trying to do is protect their kids, and that's the thing. That being a challenge is that we're trying to protect our kids when really we're adding to the problem. So to protect our kids would be protecting their internal cues, protecting them from outside factors that tell them you need to eat more, you need to eat less, and we don't want to be one of those factors.
Peter:Yeah, no, and that's a really good point. So how do you, how do you, how do you try, as a parent, stop being one of those factors?
Jessica:Right. So here's the thing. First of all, we have to stop teaching kids about food and instead start listening better because not talking about related to food and start using words like fuel and empty feelings. Oh, is your tummy hungry? Yeah, hungry feels like being empty. There's other feelings that feel like being empty too Bored can feel like being empty, lonely, like being empty. Right, and what do you think you're feeling right now?
Jessica:And instead of every food choice being a chance to mess up, think, instead of teaching kids the skills that they need and this is the nutty thing, is that skills like creative expression and being able to talk about feelings and teaching non-food ways to meet emotional needs, stress management, coping skills, forgiveness for making mistakes. Like you know, the average person hearing me say that, even the above average person is going to say those are not nutrition related things, jessica. But when we teach those things, what we're doing is we're eliminating the need for a child to use food to do those things. We're eliminating the need for a child to use food to express their emotions. We're eliminating the need for a child to use food to connect with people. We're teaching them the skills to connect with people regardless of food or eating.
Jessica:And then the other key, crucial thing we can do is to stop demeaning other people's bodies, including our own bodies or what other people are eating. In other words, we don't know what that other person's choices are based on, and so we need to stop judging other people's choices, including our kids. It's so hard, but if we could encourage and demonstrate body respect and embracing the variety of sizes and the shapes and diversity of human beings, then we again. It's not about nutrition, right, you're saying, but you're not teaching kids about it. But what we're doing is we're eliminating the need for kids to manipulate their nutrition in order to manipulate the size of their body.
Peter:Yeah, and exactly what you said. An eight-year-old doesn't need to know about proteins, fats and carbs splits and all that type of stuff. Right, that is just. It's great. If you're in the fitness world and you're 20, 21 years old and then you will say I, I want some more protein in my life, then that's a different beast altogether. But it's it's um, yeah, that's a. That's a very, very powerful point. I know you're very short for time, so I just wanted to touch uh, just wanted to ask if there's anything you uh wanted to add, because I think we've covered quite a bit, even with the little interruption.
Jessica:We have covered a lot and the reason that my time is limited is because I have three and a half year old triplets in my family. They're not my children, they're my niece and nephews, and we have no day here, and they just came over Nice. It is incredible to be part of their eating, life and development. Right, these are children that had to be tube fed. They were so tiny. They were two pounds each when they were born, which I can't recalculate for you, but very two pounds about one kg, that is tiny, tiny very small.
Jessica:So there was the opportunity for a lot of eating problems to develop. And the littlest one, the littlest girl, she didn't want to take a bottle, she was not interested in it. It was really stressful.
Peter:And.
Jessica:I'm glad I was part of their lives. I was able to counsel their parents, and now there are three kids and they eat all kinds of things and if they don't want something they don't eat it, and it's wonderful to see. So I just wanted to share that's my reason.
Peter:I think that's awesome. I think I think that's one of the that's a better reason than saying I've got another consultation so.
Jessica:So in answer to your question, is there anything else? I would say yes, I'll just mention my workbook healing your inner eater might be something useful for someone who's listening to us and thinks, yeah, I do want to sort of assess the eating messages I have in my mind. Some of them, I know I don't like Some of them. I'm not sure if they're right or not, but I want to do things differently for the next generation. The workbook is available at healingyourinnereatercom. I'd hate to sound like a commercial, but it's what we're saying, kind of appeals to someone. They might be interested, and what I'll do is I'll put in a coupon code so if someone enters the word podcast at checkout, it will bring the price of the workbook down to $15.
Peter:Well, and that's cool because it's like 45 bucks or something like that, so that's a big, big discount and that's well worth the money. I will obviously link to absolutely everything in the podcast description for anybody listening to this. Don't worry, if you missed it, I will link to it. The coupon code and all that will also be in there On that happy note. Thanks so much On that happy note. Thanks so much On that happy note. We'll press stop record here and press stop record is exactly what I did. Thanks very much to Jessica for coming on. Like I said, I had a blast.
Peter:We had some technical difficulties that took a bit of time and, as you heard there towards the end, she's a very, very busy lady who has her priorities right and therefore it's a bit shorter than than, uh, than, say, an hour, and I could have kept this going for hours. I mean she is, she's up there with some of my favorite experts that I've had the pleasure of having had on on the podcast. Um, like I said, I love. I love it when I'm trying to think of a question that I think is going to be useful and I can almost hear the eye roll. I can see the eye roll. But sometimes you can see the face of the person you're interviewing and go, okay, how am I going to be nice about this, because the question matters. But he is an idiot for phrasing it in such a way. And you know, like I said, I love that. That's when you know you're talking to somebody who's had to answer the same question a million times. It doesn't mean that the question isn't useful, but it just means that they are ridiculously experienced with regards to answering these questions. I do it myself when it comes to postpartum stuff, anything about diastasis recti, I just go here, we go again. Right, it's that thing.
Peter:Anyways, healing your Inner Eater the workbook is available. It's $45 of your finest American dollars, but with the code that I will put in the podcast description, you can get it for only $15. And I think it's well, well worth the money. We need to create more people who have healthy relationships with food, and the younger we can start doing that, the sooner you can start on the little boys and girls, the better it is right? Anyways, back next week. You take care of yourself. Here's a new bit of music, peter, at healthy postnatal body dot com. By the way, always remember you take care of yourself. Right bye now. Thank you, thank you.