The Healthy Post Natal Body Podcast
The Healthy Post Natal Body Podcast
Open Adoption: The Good, The Unexpected and The Wonderful
Although in the UK Open Adoption is the norm that is not the case everywhere.
This week I have the pleasure of talking to Ayo Haynes an, open adoption advocate, about the benefits and process of open adoption.
What exactly is it?
What are the benefits?
How does it work?
Did you know adoptive parents can experience similar physical symptoms after adoption as parents who gave birth do?
How to deal with the "sudden" arrival of a child when you haven't had 9 months to prepare.
Adopting as a single parent.
And much, much more.
If you're wondering if open adoption, especially as a single woman, is right for you; Her wonderful questionnaire is here
You can find Ayo on social media at
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Playing us out this week;
Hey, welcome to the Healthy Postnatal Body Podcast with your postnatal expert, peter Lap. That, as always, would be me. This is the podcast for the 9th of March 2025. And Date Before Music means I have a guest on today. I'm talking to Ayo Haynes. She's an open adoption advocate. We're talking everything open adoption and I know lots of countries only do open adoption, uk being one of them. So I think if you're listening in the states and you might think, yeah, I'm interested in the uk, you're thinking why would I listen to this? Because we're discussing many more things. We're talking the biological surprise how you can have real physical changes without having had the pregnancy. Um, it's like hair loss and all that type of stuff. Hormonal shifts uh. The shock of instant parenthood right, if there's a compressed timeline. The strains that adoption can place on you and, of course, all the good things as well. Right, we're not just being negative. It's a really positive, very enlightening interview. You're going to love this conversation. So, without further ado, here we go.
Ayo:What exactly is open adoption the birth family and the adoptive family so that the child that is shared in common has a healthy start and existence in life emotionally, spiritually, and obviously all of that plays into their physical well-being as well. So it's taking the adoption triad birth family, adoptive family and the child and creating a relationship that is sustaining and encouraging and uplifting for the child.
Peter:And how does the process actually work then? Because it sounds like quite a complicated yeah.
Ayo:So open adoption? No, it doesn't have to be. I mean, the process, of course, is definitely set up to take a little bit of time. So they can do vetting, the agencies can do vetting, the social workers making sure that the person who is adopting is fit in all ways to adopt. But other than that, the process is just filling out paperwork.
Ayo:Obviously, it's making an adoption plan, it's deciding what kind of child do you want to adopt. Is it a boy, is it a girl? Are you able to take on a child who has disabilities? What race, what gender, ethnicity, all of those things? Is it international or domestic? And so those things are fairly easy to get through. And so those things are fairly easy to get through. And when it comes to open adoption, it's very important for the adoptive family to be clear about whether they want to go that route, which I suggest everyone should go that route, because it just lends itself for a healthier relationship all the way around, not just with the birth family but also with your child, because open adoption means that there's an exchange of information on both sides, but it also means that you're keeping lines of communication open with your child about how they came into your family, how your family was started and that there's no shame in how that started and that it's just another way that God has chosen to start this particular family.
Peter:Yeah, no, that makes absolute sense. You don't have to have the whole Hollywood style searching for my birth parents.
Ayo:Right At the age of 14 or 18 or whatever right at the age of 14 or 18 or whatever, or 20 or 30, and you can imagine what kind of psychological harm that could do to a child.
Ayo:So my whole coaching business is about let's cut that off at the pass. Let's start that conversation as early as possible. Obviously you're only only going to talk to the child at a level that they can understand, but you start the conversation early enough so that it's not shameful, it's not something to be hidden or secret, because all of that means regret, shame and that something's wrong. So we take that out of the equation completely and start from an uplifting place and from there. And start from an uplifting place and from there. If you continue with conversations that are appropriate for the child at that age and as the other side, the birth family, become more involved in your life, as you permit, then there's a healthy exchange and a healthy growing of that child emotionally, so that we should not have these things I don't know who I am, I don't know who I look like. I want to know the circumstances of my birth. Those things come out naturally over time as the child gets older.
Peter:Right, because that's a fascinating thing that you just said, or at least fascinating to me. It's that when you say so, does the birth family, if they want to, and if the adoptive family wants, of course, do they stay involved in the child's life, up to a point, of course.
Ayo:Well, it's all in the hands of the adoptive parent, and the adoptive parent will control that. However, the adoptive parent should, I believe, in the beginning make it clear that they do want an open relationship, and so should the birth family, and the birth family usually will be the ones to say I want an open adoption or I want a close adoption. I want an open adoption or I want a close adoption. So if the two don't have a meeting of the minds on that subject, then that should not be an adoption that goes forward, because it's going to be either disrupted which means that it will be canceled by the birth family or it will be contentious throughout the life of that relationship. So you should always be on the same page as the other party. So if the birth family wants an open adoption, the adoptive family should be open to that. If the adoptive family wants an open adoption, then the birth family should want that as well.
Peter:Yeah, no, that makes complete sense. So what kind of background? Because this is like I said. This is different from most of the adoption stories that we see depicted in movies and TV shows and all that sort of stuff. So what kind of background do most of the open adoptions have? It sounds different from like I said, and pardon myself, pardon me, but if you listen to this, I'm a middle-aged white guy, right, it sounds different from the. I will travel to whichever foreign country and just end up taking whatever white savior child I can get, if you know what I mean. It sounds much more inclusive.
Ayo:Well, I mean private adoption in the States is going to be between an agency and a birth family and adoptive family or an attorney, or you can find your own situation where the birth family has come to you or could be kinship adoption of adoption that exists, that's generally going to be open, where there's going to be and you know who the other side is and there's an exchange of information. But usually there's a middle person to control the exchange of information, unless you decide, like I did with my child's birth family, that we were going to not use a middle person like a social worker and instead communicate with each other. And that's how it started germinely through text and then occasional phone calls and then once a year meeting up. So it could be anything. There's no one adoption that's like the next. There's no one open adoption that's like the next. Some people will choose to be very, have the other side very involved. It really depends on your level of comfort and, at the end of it all, it really is in the hands of the adoptive parent to allow the amount of contact, the frequency of contact, the depth of contact. That's all controlled by the adoptive parent.
Ayo:Now, when we talk about public adoption, that's generally something that is happening with an agency a city or state agency, where the child is the guardian. The city or the adoption agency is the guardian of an older child Usually. Sometimes it's a baby Um, they can be all the way up to 21 when they um exit the foster care system. Yeah, and those have a more difficult um challenge in openness, because many times the birth parents still want to parent the child and if, for whatever reason, that's going on in their story and a judge is involved and a judge says I don't see you as being fit to parent this child, I'm going to remove your parental rights, I'm going to remove your parental rights. You can imagine that that leads to a lot of contention and bitterness from the birth family side to the newly foster to adopt family. So that one needs to be challenged, to be managed a little bit more differently, for sure and closely.
Peter:Yeah, it sounds like the open adoption approach is a lot, like you said, healthier for the child's mental and emotional well-being and all that type of stuff. It sounds like a lot more of absolutely of a healthier approach absolutely 100 so what effect have you found that that adoption, because it's something that you spoke about um on your, on your website and all that. So something about the physical impact of adoption, uh on, on the female body, because this was a fascinating one for me. Could you elaborate a bit on that?
Ayo:yeah, and I could speak from personal um experience. People think, oh, you just adopt a baby and that's it, and there's no physical challenges that come with it. But, um, you know, at the very core, you're certainly going to be dealing with sleep deprivation like any other parent, and that has effects on your body. Um, but there is a chemical that is released in your body where you have to physically, your body has to want to parent that child. It cannot be an emotional void where you're like, okay, I'll just adopt and that's it. No, it's not a puppy, it's not a goldfish, right, there is a life that is absolutely depending upon you. Like a dog eventually can find something to eat, a baby is not going to be able to. And so you know, what I experienced is I, you know, there there's a change of hormones. I started seeing my hair falling out and dropping, like women who are physically to carry a child when their hormones start to regulate. A lot of women experience that that their hair, you know the hormones that gave them so much nutrients in their body to have, you know, luscious hair and all of that it stops and then you see the dropping of hair and I experienced that and I couldn't believe it.
Ayo:I was also going through the beginning. I was in perimenopause at the time as well, and so you know the group of women that I especially work with are in their forties and fifties. They're single women in their forties and fifties who have never become mothers because of life circumstances. Relationships didn't line up at the right time, maybe they had fertility issues, whatever it is. They find themselves single and motherless but want to be mothers, and so at that time period you're also going through generally perimenopause or menopause, so you have those things to deal with as well. But you're so. You're physically, your body is preparing to stop producing, reproducing, but then emotionally, you have a child where your body is telling you you have to produce the hormones to nurture this child.
Ayo:Now there are some women that can, that are in the adoptive phase, and they know that they want to lactate and breastfeed. They can do manipulations with their breasts with tools to get their milk flowing, so that's one way. I did not do that. I also chose not to take any kind of drugs that would make me lactate. I just didn't find that to be healthy. But those are also things that people who are going through adoption can do, but for me, you know it was. I definitely saw the hair dropping and the that came back, thankfully. The obviously deprivate sleep deprivation, um, and and really managing what it means to be a mother overnight. Sometimes it's like it can be quite instantaneous. So you have to adjust your lifestyle now to accommodate a child that you didn't have, maybe even you didn't even have it in your body 24 hours ago, and all of a sudden, it's there yeah.
Ayo:It's there right, and it can be that quick that it happens, because you can get a call from a hospital saying you know there's a mother who has decided to choose adoption. Are you open to raising this child? So it can be overnight and I have clients that that has happened to and it is quite an adjustment.
Peter:Yeah, I'm sure having a settling in period, so to speak, or just going from decision made as in this, is something you might want to consider doing, or this is something you want to do to going to full on.
Ayo:And there it is is quite a shock to the system, absolutely Quite a shock to the system. Quite a shock to the system, quite a shock to your lifestyle. You have to now plan for um, uh, babysitters, and set up the rooms. There's all sorts of things that happen at a much faster timeline, whereas with pregnancy, obviously, you have nine months to prepare for this. Um, with adoption, you have a few months to mentally prepare, perhaps, or just a, you know, a few days yeah, and it's one of those things that that I suppose not.
Peter:You know you have time to mentally prepare, but that doesn't mean you're actually prepared for that absolutely you, just you just think you are and you've done the best you could absolutely, there's a big deal so.
Peter:So how do you find that? How do you, how do you help women and and men and just couples in in general go through that process of of yeah, here, here you are now. Here's a new presence in your life and, like you said, slightly tougher, probably slightly tougher than than getting a puppy, but it's, and this is how you best deal with it, considering especially that you have to, that you're going to have all these conversations anyways and prepare for future questions and a new relationship with the birth parents and all that type of thing.
Ayo:Yeah, well, you know it starts very slowly. It starts with conversation. It's interesting. I focus on women, as I said, single women, but more and more I'm getting people outside of my demographic, I'm getting couples, I'm getting. I just had a conversation with a guy who's in his fifties and he wants to be a father and he's in a relationship and you know it was one of I've had two conversations like that with men and I each time I'm like, wow, I love that men also have this desire to parent, to be a father, just like women have this desire to be a mother, and that they can express in their forties and fifties.
Ayo:I really wish that I had had a child sooner, earlier, or even that I will have one, so that I think with I hope that with the work that I'm doing that it gives permission to people to speak their truth and to speak their desires, the desires of their heart, because once you do that, then we can have real conversations about, okay, what does that mean? How are you going to make this happen in your life? Do you need to? Do you have support? Do you have people who can help you? Do you need to change your job? Because your job keeps you working 60 hours a week? Are you able financially to go this route? There are all sorts of questions to ask and I actually start people with a questionnaire that it's on my website and I always say there's no right or wrong answers. It's just a way to start the conversation with yourself first, is this something that you really want? Is this a burning desire For me?
Ayo:I knew that it was the one thing that I would regret not having experienced in my life when I passed away, that I needed to have this happen, and so it started with going the fertility route, which did not work for me.
Ayo:It was very, very costly, I think costly financially and also costly health-wise, because I experienced fibroids after that and I think it was because of the massive doses of hormone that I had to take because I was in my forties already and my fertility was already diminishing. You know, it's those conversations that I have with people that say you know, if you're going to go with a fertility route, I need you to have a really good conversation with your doctor about the chances that this will work, because it's going to be really costly, like I said, financially and on your body, and no one knows the long-term tolls on that, and then, if that's not the way you want to go, then let's consider adoption, and you may want a brand new baby or you may want a toddler. Your lifestyle says that. You know what? I think I'll be better with a 10 year old, and so it's. It's those kind of conversations that I start people having and then we move on from there you know that makes sense.
Peter:I think you're. You're absolutely right. There is a whole the discussion around ivf and all that type of stuff is nowhere near honest enough, at least not absolutely uk it's. I have several clients who who've conceived through ivf and they will. I worked for them through ivf and then postpartum and all that type of stuff and it is brutal. It's a lot more difficult than people think it is People. People tend to think oh, you know, you, you, you, you, you get some, you get some treatment from the doctor and everything goes into a little dish and then whoop, and nine months later and, like you said, it fails more often than it works right. A lot of the time I think, yes, I think, uh, in the uk everybody through the nhs gets free ivs cycles free if you, if you don't have kids yet, wow, but the average, the requirement is seven or eight. Uh, the last I heard and someone can email in and correct me if I'm wrong, but it was seven, right, so you can imagine three isn't necessarily enough and three is already brutal.
Peter:And it's a prolonged period of time where you're artificially kind of messing with hormone levels and all that type of stuff. And, like you said, there are definitely side effects to IVF definitely side effects to absolutely to ivf, um.
Ayo:and before you go to the next question, I was going to say it reminds me of that time when I was going through the process and I just really wish that women were honest about how they became mothers. There was a time where people were very, oh yeah, I, I um, conceived her naturally and you're like 45, 50. You're like really Wow. And so you know and that's not helpful to anyone if that's not the truth, because then it leads other women to go okay, well, she did it and she went the fertility route. I can do it when that wasn't the truth from the beginning. And if you had told the truth and been truthful about your experience, you would have empowered that next person to make a better and more informed choice about how they become a mother. And so that again is the work that I do. And, as you said, fertility, I have realized, is an. If I went through five IUIs and two IVF treatments, it's an if you're going to become a mother. Adoption is a when, yeah true, that's a good point.
Peter:That's a very good point. You raised a very, very important point there. I think a lot of the conversations that I have with people and and on the podcast and and it's about not everything to do with babies and is is unicorns and rainbows, right and and right it's, and it's really difficult and I understand it's difficult for someone who's had a child through ivf to say, uh, it was brutal but it was worth it. Or it was brutal and I don't know if I did the right thing, but it's the brutal bit usually gets shoved to the side a little bit because you're told that you have to be happy. Right, you have to be happy and therefore nothing that came before can be seen as having been difficult.
Peter:And I've had conversations with people before where I introduced with someone of my clients, said I'm considering ivf. Do you have clients that have ivf, have been through ivf? Can you introduce me to them so I can have a conversation, what it's really like? And I have to go to the other person and say just be honest about what you actually went through, because that's what you're asking about rather than go oh, your baby's so cute.
Peter:Well, that's convinced me to try the same thing, right? Because if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're wanting to have a baby, then all babies are cute. It doesn't really matter how you, how you ended up with one.
Ayo:So and to that point, yeah, I mean, I didn't need to see my genes replicated, right, so that was easier for me to make a decision about going the adoption route.
Ayo:I know there are people still to this day they're like I want a child so badly but my husband won't allow us to adopt because it's not his and it's like that is. So in a sense I'm like, okay, I'm glad you're not adopting a child, because it's the wrong mindset. But it's so ego-driven that you can only love a child that physically comes from your body in one shape or form to say that you are less than that. You did not physically birth a child or, um, father a child because of whatever is going on. A lot of it is genetic, because of environment. Now, right, it's, it's not something. Why is there blame about not being able to, to, uh, physically produce a child, you know, in one way or shape or form? It's an insanity socially that needs to end.
Peter:And you're quite right. It reminded me of this bit and I haven't seen the entire special, so I'm not sure it's any good. Chelsea Handler, the comedian, did a thing on this where she explained where her brother was wanting a child because it's his legacy. And she's like dude, you're a bus driver or whatever he is. She said your legacy is being my brother, absolutely you know what I mean.
Peter:It makes, no, it adds nothing to the, the legacy of the person. It it doesn't. It's not, in the grand scheme of things, within nature, it's not that special that you're able to to make a mini version of yourself absolutely um, and I think you're quite right that. That it. There's a really weird, and I'm thinking you're right in in that it's probably more a male driven thing, as in it has to be. It has to look like me because I'm so amazing. Let's make another version of myself, right? That's a very that's.
Ayo:It sounds paternalistic almost right, but we don't know much of what's in our genealogy beyond what we could find written somewhere right beyond that. We don't know where we started from what country, where our great, great, great, great, great great parents moved to and they really, maybe they were adopted or illegitimately conceived. We don't know that. So we get caught up on these things of I'm like Scottish, I'm American, I'm this in generation, I can go back generations. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter Right now, right here, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter-Christian and even Islamic culture right. Adoption was, throughout all the stories, even Jesus adopted by Joseph. So adoption is something that is so germane to who we are as people and again, the work that I do is to take the stigmatization out of it and say this is as normal as having your naturally born child.
Peter:Yeah, and that's the fact that. So what? What sort of self-doubt? Because I'm thinking there will be a lot of people listening to this and say, yeah, okay, this, all this all makes sense, but I still have some level of of self-doubt. Do you find most of the self-doubt actually comes from external pressures or just the way we were raised, the way we were taught by society how to think of adoption and all that sort of thing?
Ayo:I think there are different doubts, right. So there's a doubt of is adoption safe? Is it? Am I going to get a child who's going to murder me in the middle of the night, you know? Is adoption, am I going to fight with the birth family all the time and a lot of and that's not to say that that those situations don't happen, but it also is informed by what we are programmed with on TV and movies and all of those things. Right, the really bad stories always get the light and the thousands of good ones, you know, just go about. They don't get highlighted. That's part of the problem is what comes to light, what's newsworthy. And then I think there are realistic doubts about okay, I'm single, I don't have a whole lot of support, can I do this?
Ayo:And you know, in my situation I started the process, my mother had just passed away and for adoption anyway, I had been trying through IVF while she was alive, but you know I didn't have a mother and a father who I could lean on for support and his only child. You know, those are legitimate concerns about oh my gosh, can I do this? But what I found is that I had a whole community of people who were ready to step up and help me along the way. And so what I do as an adoption open, adoption success coach is also create community so that there's you have people who are walking the same path, that you are on the same journey and you have more than what I had, which is very little. I didn't have a playbook. I had to make things up as I went along. I had to create this relationship that I wanted my daughter to have with her birth family. I didn't have that modeled anywhere. So if I can show how I have built this life within adoption and with a birth family and with my daughter, and how she's thriving and that allows other people to go okay, now I see a real life person doing it and I'm not sugarcoating anything.
Ayo:I'm not saying by any stretch of the imagination that my journey as a single mother has been easy. It has not been. There have been ups, there have been downs, but at the core I have a child that fulfills me, that I know that I am parenting the right way, and I also am looking not to remain single my whole life. I'm also looking for a partner, a life partner, as my husband and as her father, and so what I say to my single women clients is that don't worry, you're not going to be single all the time for the rest of your life. This won't be your job to do by yourself forever until the child is grown. Your job to do by yourself forever until the child is grown.
Ayo:And it's interesting, peter, that's actually what the birth family told the social worker about me. I was the only single woman presented to them to choose from, and there were couples and they looked at my brochure and said and the social worker told them that I was single, and my daughter's birth mother said, oh, but she won't be single forever, she'll find a husband. And so that love the work that I do, because it's so fulfilling when I can see clients with their child. And it's rough at the beginning, right, it's a huge adjustment in so many ways. But you have at your core that great desire fulfilled and this lovely little child that's looking to you and saying mama.
Peter:Yes, and it's something that you said there. I mean, you know it's again it's. It's because it kind of comes back to that unicorns and rainbows thing. Having a child, naturally, as in giving birth to one, it's also not going to be easy. It's also always a struggle, right, right, I have never come across anyone that had like a 10 year old to this previously 10 year old that said, oh no, everything was a piece of piss till now. Right, everything was just a piece of pie. It was dead easy from, from giving birth till 10 years old. Never a problem, right? So it it is. And indeed, like you said, with regards to relationship status and all that sort of thing, these things, well, they can always fluctuate, can't they? You can't absolutely the the, I suppose. Do you? Do you come across that a lot when, especially when you say you're working a lot with, with single women and all that sort of stuff, do you come across that a lot that a lot of them have the the? Well, maybe I better wait. Sort of self-doubt sometimes.
Ayo:but I say, well, you're 40 or 50, there's not much more time to wait like this is. This is change, and that is actually what informed me being like 46 when my daughter was born, because I was waiting right In my thirties. I'm like waiting and waiting for the right relationship, and then you date somebody and then it's not the right one and it goes off track and you try to date someone else and you know. Then you know there are the people who they got tired of waiting and they just chose a person who could be a sperm donor of sorts, you know, and and they got married and that marriage is long over or they're in a relationship that they wish. They're like. Oh my gosh, I have to be parenting with this person for 18 years and I can't stand them. But we share a child in common, right? And so I think if you are in your, if you're single in your 40s and 50s, that came about in a certain way and so, and with decisiveness probably. So it's more about okay. So I am ready to have this child in my life and I can build a life around them with the right guidance. I can't do it by myself, I don't know how to start this, but it's not impossible. Myself, I don't know how to start this, but it's not impossible, and I need to find someone who can help guide me through the process.
Ayo:And so I think, if you have this huge, burning desire to become a parent, don't wait. There is a time. The conversation I had recently with the guy who was 50, he said you know, I'm wondering if it's too late for me. Am I going to be too old? I'm like said you know, I'm wondering if, um, if it's too late for me, am I I'm going to be too old? I'm like and you know, how long will I have with my child? And the reality is we don't know how long we have any of us have with our child. Yeah, true, right, even if we birth them naturally, um, or father them naturally, we just have no idea, uh, when god calls us home, you know.
Peter:so live now, live for now and especially when you consider, like, like old guys, like mick jagger and all those sort of types. We all know the guys, right. Well, they have kids in their 70s and their 80s and all that sort of stuff, right, so you know they're not giving it any consideration, although you can doubt whether it's actually their child.
Ayo:But it's, and we don't know if they're really parenting.
Peter:No, exactly, but they've probably outsourced all that type of stuff.
Ayo:Right right.
Peter:But fundamentally you're right. You know everybody accepts because everybody kind of expects life to have a natural progression, right as in I won't die until I'm 80 because that's the average life expectancy. That bus that hits some people with a heart attack, that hits some people at the age of 50, definitely won't happen to me. And therefore, and all of a sudden that doubt kind of sets in when you're 50, when you're like, oh, can I still throw a ball with my kid To use a very American sort of description there, can I still throw a baseball with my kid by the 2016s and I'm in my 60s? I suppose that idea of just make a decision one way or another, don't procrastinate on it too long, that's a very powerful uh powerful message there right time is now?
Peter:yeah, for sure. So how do people actually get it started then? I know, obviously on your website there will be a ton of information and all that sort of stuff. Is that the is that where we're starting with that? Okay, let's start with a self-reflection guide see where we actually are and then how to progress from there.
Ayo:Yes, and then they would book a call with me and we can go over what they've answered. Again, no right or wrong answers. Sure, and to get started, you need to start interviewing agencies, figuring out if you want to go the private adoption route or the foster care route. Um, foster care has its own concerns, uh, and you know, but it is less expensive by a mile. And, um, there are some benefits that they they make available to parents so that they will go through with it as far as, like paying for insurance, paying for healthcare, paying for schooling up through 21,. You know, and the stipend that you're not going to get in a private adoption. Private adoption, you're going to be paying, you know up where it's some anywhere from 25 to 50 to 60, even more, depending on if it's domestic or international. And you want to find out if the agency is open to single parents, and I have a list of agencies that are, and countries as well. You want to make sure that they are going to give you the kind of support that you need.
Ayo:I'm not an agency, I'm just a coach that helps. I'm the coach that helps you navigate that and help you with selection and managing things, avoiding the pitfalls that I went through, like I contracted with an agency and my child came from another agency my social worker actually and the first agency refused to give me back my money. And so you know there are ways to avoid that happening. That I've learned and that's what I help my clients with as well. And then you have just the basic paperwork that needs to be done. Right, you need to do fingerprinting locally. That also gets sent down to DC here, in the States for homeland security.
Ayo:But the biggest thing I want to say, especially since you are based in the UK and I've also talked to podcasters in India this is not a US kind of initiative. Right, open adoption is international. The need for it. Right To connect people to their source and to let them understand who they are, the circumstances of their birth good, bad or indifferent. We have to empower people children emotionally to handle difficult conversations. Have to empower people children emotionally to handle difficult conversations, but it doesn't mean that they're any less loved and you reinforce their potential. Negative stories start beginning stories with positivity and how they are in your family and how they impact the love of your family. So you know, as professional women around the world, you know get older. You know we are the women in their 40s and 50s, or I should say women generally. The more education you have, the later in life you are thinking about having a child. Or you might find yourself oh my goodness, how did I become 40? When did that happen?
Peter:That happens to all of us, right? Oh my goodness, how did I become 40? When did that?
Ayo:happen and then you realize, oh shoot, I don't have what I want in my life. So you know, this is certainly a conversation that affects so many around the world, and you know, what do you? What is it that you want to do now that you realize you're in a situation that was not how you dreamt or imagined your life to be? So now is the time to change it.
Peter:take control yeah, no, absolutely all that. Very on those happy positive words, I'll just say it wasn't because we touched on quite a lot and I know our time is short. Was there anything else you wanted to touch on, because I think we covered a lot.
Ayo:Oh goodness. Well, you know, I am just so grateful to have this conversation, to see that it's touching so many people around the world and to get a chance to even speak, to be heard by your listeners around the world, Because, again, this is there are so many children in need. There are so many children who are affected by being orphans, as you know, children of war and people who want to do harm to children in other ways that just are unspeakable. So, if we can find people who have a heart to love and raise children to be healthy adults, please step forward. It is something that is so needed.
Ayo:You know, I lost my mother 11 years ago and yesterday, on the 11th, and you know it resonates with me because I remember someone at the funeral who you know for all good intentions. You know how some things just blurt out and you didn't really mean to say it and she said, oh Ayo, you're an orphan now. And I thought, well, that's a really strange thing to say to somebody at this time. And I'm like, I'm not an orphan, I know who my parents are and they love me and I had a great relationship with them and I'm an adult. How can I be an orphan.
Ayo:But you know, over the years, I'm like you know what. There are times where I have felt that and I, you know, imagine, I can imagine what it feels like to be a child without a home and a loving family, to really pour into them, to really pour into them, and women especially, we're vessels. We are vessels, we hold love, we hold the ability to produce children, and men are absolutely needed in the home and the raising of children. So if we can have men and women have real conversations about the importance of family versus the importance of career to the, to the detriment of family, then I think we'll be a society that is better off well, absolutely.
Peter:I could not agree more and on that happy note, I will press stop record here, and press stop record is exactly what I did. Thanks very much for coming on, but that was a great conversation. I really enjoyed it. I learned a lot from that. To be honest, I, for instance, didn't know that there were. Obviously, I knew there would be sleepless nights and all that type of stuff, but you can have real physical effects after adoption that you kind of get during, that you would get after having been pregnant and gone through labor as well. That was a thing. Obviously, all the pressures I mean everybody who's ever gone for any major life changes knows that that will bring mental health, has a mental health impact somewhere. So thanks very much to io for coming on.
Peter:Uh, ios created this, this thing, um, this like call to action type, uh, like questionnaires for, uh, a questionnaire designed to help single women explore if motherhood for adoption is right for them. Um, so I will link to that because it it's. It's really it's quite valuable. It's basically gives you a chance to think about your thoughts, ideas and feelings, where you are, what you want and all that type of stuff, and whether whether adoption actually is something for you, whether it's worth considering and all that type of stuff. You're so I will link to whether it's worth considering and all that type of stuff. So I will link to that. It's definitely worth checking out Next week.
Peter:What am I doing next week? That is the question. That is the question on everybody's lips. What are we doing next week? Oh, homeschooling next week. You're going to love that. Homeschooling with Lindsay that was a phenomenal conversation. I learned more. Um, homeschooling with lindsey uh, that was a phenomenal conversation. I learned more about homeschooling. I'm getting educated here, people. I learned more about homeschooling and that's in that conversation. Then I turned out I knew nothing about homeschooling, right? Um, you're gonna love that. So that'll be next week. For now, peter at healthy postnatal bodycom if you have any questions or comments, send us a text, whatever it is. However, you want to get in touch, just get in touch, for whatever reason you want to get in touch. Anyways, you take care of yourself. Here's a new bit of music. Bye now.
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