The Healthy Post Natal Body Podcast
The Healthy Post Natal Body Podcast
Maximise your social impact (in a shitty world) interview with Philantrophy expert Sharon Schneider
Let's be honest, it's a troubling world we live in these days and things can feel a bit overwhelming. How on earth do you make the world a bit better? Where do you even start?
A few years ago I did an interview with Sharon Schneider and this interview has shaped a lot of the things I do in my life, and changed the path for HPNB as well. So today, I bring you this interview again. It's a very old one so you'll have to forgive the sound quality a little bit, but it's a really good one.
Enjoy
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Have you ever questioned whether your day to day actions align with your values?
Do you give to charity but wonder if there's more you can do to have a positive impact in the world? Not by giving money but by making those small changes in your life that will have an overwhelmingly positive impact, much more so than donating some money here and there,
Are you keen to teach your children just how they can make the world a genuinely better place?
Well then you are in luck!
This week I have the absolute pleasure of talking to Sharon Schneider. And I don't mind telling you this is one of the most powerful talks I've had over the past few years.
Sharon is an entrepreneur, a philanthropy expert, an impact investor, and a strategist who advises socially conscious founders and family offices. She has overseen more than $1.5 billion in philanthropic capital deployed through grants, impact investments, advocacy
efforts, and business operations from some of the world’s most prominent families, including members of the Giving Pledge, the Forbes 400 wealthiest individuals, top-ten US private foundations, and others.
In other words, Sharon is the person to speak to about this sort of thing. Her insight is phenomenal and the ideas she brings to the table will, no doubt, have you inspired to make some small changes that will have a HUGE impact in the world around you.
Sharon's book "Handbook for an integrated life" is available now
You can find Sharon on Twitter, where all the cool kids hang out.
And LinkedIn
In the news this week; This interesting study from the Max Planck Institute in Germany that found that a 1 hour walk in nature has a causal effect when it comes to destressing the brain.
As always; HPNB still only has 5 billing cycles.
So this means that you not only get 3 months FREE access, no obligation!
BUT, if you decide you want to do the rest of the program, after only 5 months of paying $10/£8 a month you now get FREE LIFE TIME ACCESS! That's $50 max spend, in case you were wondering.
Though I'm not terribly active on Instagram and Facebook you can follow us there. I am however active on Threads so find me there!
And, of course, you can always find us on our YouTube channel if you like your podcast in video form :)
Visit healthypostnatalbody.com and get 3 months completely FREE access. No sales, no commitment, no BS.
Email peter@healthypostnatalbody.com if you have a
Hey, welcome to Healthy Postnatal Buddy Podcast with your postnatal expert, peter Lapp. That, as always, will be me. This is the podcast for the 22nd of June 2025. And if you follow the news then you know the world has just gone to hell in a handbasket. It's something else. So today I'm doing another episode from the vault, as I always do once every couple of weeks, but here's one I did from a few years ago, fairly early on in the podcast, talking about maximizing your social impact.
Peter:On this world interview with philanthropy expert Sharon Snyder, and she was lovely. This was one of the most powerful talks about. You know, like I said, how the world is going to howl in a hand basket right now and and, and it can be really difficult to deal with and all that sort of stuff. Well, this lady talks about value-based living. The handbook for an integrate life was was her book and it is. It's. It's phenomenal. She has, she's an entrepreneur, philanthropy expert, impact investor and a strategist. Basically, she's overseen more than one and a half billion dollars in philanthropic capital deployed and she talks about how the actions we take should be in alignment with what our values are. But a lot of people don't necessarily see how that lines up, and they don't necessarily know how to do that. You know, some people just give the charity once a year, that sort of stuff.
Peter:And she talks about how you can make small changes in your life that have an overwhelmingly positive impact, well past just donating some money here and there.
Peter:And you know, I'm I'm huge on this right, because hpmb donates a fair bit of money to charities, and I do say so myself. We just, you know, we keep it relatively quiet, uh right, most of it is, is, and, and we employ, uh, we employ local people for local things and all that type of stuff. And that's one of the ways that she explained to me we can make a real difference, even in a world that is, let's say, remarkably complicated and remarkably difficult and can be overwhelming sometimes. And remarkably difficult and can be overwhelming sometimes, you know. So you know, if you want to feel better about yourself, listen to this episode, make one or two changes. I think you'll be surprised At just how much of a positive impact you can make. Anyways, without further ado, because that's the longest intro I've ever done, here we go. So you say you believe philanthropy is a lifestyle and not a year-end check, which is an interesting approach.
Sharon:What do you mean by that? Yeah, I think as a society we've sort of relegated the time and the effort when we think about kind of causes that we say we care about to that end of year, you know, holiday season when when we write a check we think, well, there we go, I've done my part. You know I contributed to charity. But the whole premise of the book and really what I, you know, feel passionate about as a message, is the idea that, hey, if you really do believe in those causes and those values, you have countless opportunities in your everyday life to express them and live into them and support them, you know, without, without writing a check, and so so it's not that we shouldn't be giving to charity. I'm not saying stop doing that, but rather expand your aperture to what points in time or what opportunities you see in your life every day, all year round, that either express your values or don't yeah, and that's because that's an interesting one, isn't because I think, like you said, it's.
Peter:It's very tempting to. At christmas time you donate a bit of money to charity, or even monthly you donate a bit of money to charity. Right, there's a lot of a lot of my listeners donate five, ten percent.
Peter:I have listeners in countries that really heavily encourage the whole yeah your salary donation sort of thing, um, but if I, for instance, and and you, you, you mentioned this in in the book if I, for instance, I donate a bit of money every month to various charities across the world mostly animal related stuff, because that's what I'm into but then I spend the rest of the month buying stuff off Amazon, which kind of goes against everything I'm actually trying to accomplish for the world. Right, and you talk a bit about this as well how to ignore convenience and how to put your values before things like convenience when it comes to making lifestyle choices and all that sort of thing.
Sharon:Yeah, and I think that 5 or 10% is a great place to start. And I say that I started in philanthropy where there was a 5% grant making distribution, like a private foundation has an endowment and every year they give 5%, and the realization that I had, you know, 20 years ago and lots of people had, was hey, what do you do with that 95% that's invested, because it's 20 times as much?
Sharon:And it is, you know, beating the crap out of the 5%, like I hate to say it, and so, you know, the idea that you can give your 5% and ignore the 95% is really how we got in this mess, and I think that that Amazon, you know, is a great example is that the harms caused by the way we conduct the 95% of our lives not just how we spend our money, but, yeah, our money. There's a lot more money that goes through our households and through our bank accounts, you know, than just what goes to charity, and that money is having a huge impact as well.
Sharon:So, you know, convenience is one of those virtues that we've been sold as like the highest and most important thing that a product or a service can do for us.
Sharon:And again, with Amazon Prime you're like, wow, it's so convenient. But I think it often causes us, if we're not conscious about it, make an effort to push down a lot of other values we say we believe in, like human rights and dignity and environmental, you know concerns and supporting small businesses. I mean there's so many aspects that you know or reasons you might have values that don't align, but every time you go oh, but that Amazon Prime, that's so easy. You know you're kind of sacrificing those other values and I think you know it starts with just being conscious of the choices that you're making and how you could express the same values that your five percent donations represent in these other areas of your life yeah, no, because that's, and that's absolutely.
Peter:I couldn't agree more because it really is a case of and it's interesting. You talk about values versus beliefs and all that sort of stuff in the book and we'll get into that a little bit as well, but it is it is obvious to me that if I care about the environment I do, of course, I do, everybody kind of does um, but I also care about getting, uh, that scotch tape delivered to my house.
Sharon:Getting that scotch tape delivered to my house as soon as possible.
Peter:Do you know what I mean? It was the stuff. I mean. My wife, wendy, and I had to come up with a solution where we just said, okay, we can have one Amazon delivery per week, that is not excessive.
Peter:One day where we can just say, okay, on Saturday, I want all my stuff delivered, so I don't uh, 20 things coming at various times, because everybody's almost everybody's listening to this will have been in a situation where you get an amazon delivery at nine o'clock in the morning and then, oh yeah, that thing that you remembered yesterday arrives at 10 o'clock at night and the thing that you actually ordered was just a roll of um sellotape or something, something stupid like that, just a kid's high school project or a kindergarten project or something like that shit. We're out of materials, I need to buy pens, and I could drive to the store to buy pens and I could drive to the mom and pop shop to buy pens. But you know, swipe right click and swipe right is a hell of a lot easier and it's cost effective as well, but it goes against kind of everything I'm trying to accomplish in my day-to-day life. So how do you try to move away from that then? Because convenience, like you said, is ingrained in us.
Sharon:Right, convenience is everything, because convenience, like you said is ingrained in us, right Convenience is everything. Yeah, and I think you've taken the step of saying let me just consolidate to one day and I think I'm all about baby steps and I say, embrace, yes, and to keep making progress.
Sharon:So, yes, that was a great step. And what's the next thing you could do? For example, if you value you know, for example, if, if you value supporting small businesses and, frankly, if you can afford to wait for the item until you know your weekly delivery, maybe you could also afford to find it you know somewhere else and sort of to say you know, can I apply a higher standard? Might be the next step to say you know, instead of it's so convenient to say I looked and I couldn't find this, or you know it wasn't available at a local place. It's a specialized item, like if you, if you raise your bar, and that's kind of the next step I've taken, so I have an Amazon account you know, but it's not my go-to.
Sharon:It's not just adding everything all the time, but I think the other element that I want to bring in that is really important is we often we're focusing on the method of delivery or the seller, or sometimes people talk about oh, switch out for fair trade or for organic materials or whatever, and I think actually a big part of this is to really examine why we are consuming all of the things that we are, because my guess is you know, 50% of the stuff that people get from Amazon is entirely discretionary and unnecessary purposes, and so, you know, I've developed in my own mind a little like what I call biting hierarchy.
Sharon:That's part of this, you know, approach to reducing my, my Amazon, but just my consumption in general, which is, instead of starting with what's it made of or how's it delivered, I start with do I really need this thing? You know, is it actually something that is just a passing? You know, is it actually something that is just a passing? You know a want or a um, you know if it's a dress or a sweater, another pillow or another chashka, like, do I really need that? And if the answer is no, you know, um, you don't get it. And then? And then if the answer is yes, I really do need it, then then the next question is well, could I borrow it? Could I rent it from somewhere? So, like, lawn equipment is a great example of this.
Sharon:Like, like can you borrow your neighbor's you know, cedar or whatever instead of like buying your own or go rent it from the you know, hardware store for a day, and if you can't borrow it or rent it and you really need to own it because you're going to use it enough, okay, could you get it gently used? You know me, um, you know the greenest things are the ones that are already created, sure, um, and getting the most value out of them. And then sometimes you can't, you know but, but then you can start to say, okay, if I have to buy it new, now let's talk about the materials. You know where it's um, where it's sourced from, um. And then, if you can't get it new, now, let's talk about the materials. You know where it's um, where it's sourced from, um. And then, if you can't get it new, at least get something, or I mean like fair trade and organic, at least get something high quality so that it will last and hopefully you can pass it on to someone. So you know there's there's a couple of interrelated ideas with our, you know ideas with our, you know society's reliance and embrace of things like Amazon that I think, if we really stop and think about it, we might, you know, start to hmm, yeah, maybe I don't really need that. You know, extra dog collar or whatever it is.
Sharon:That was so cute. That was recommended by an influencer on TikTok. Maybe you could just cast that up.
Peter:Well, that's a good point because I'm really big on the. Let's not spend too much money. I'm cheap, let's not buy stuff. Wendy and I we used to live in a bigger house than we have now. We moved down to a nice two-bed house. I'm not complaining, nice two-bed house with a big garden and all that sort of stuff. But what we found is that no matter the size of the house, you tend to fill it up with stuff. If you have a spare room, that spare room is going to get filled up. So we found that when we moved to a smaller place. So we found that when we moved to a smaller place, all we had to do first of all we got rid of a ton of stuff that we either didn't know we had or didn't know we needed or just could just get rid of.
Peter:But now the trick is just don't buy it, just don't. I mean it's the easiest thing in the world, I mean fast fashion. I don't really. All my clients will know I still show up in the same tracksuit bottoms that I've had for five or six years Because it takes half decent care of them. And if you take decent care of them, like you say, you buy a quality product. You spend a bit more, you buy it from a decent source, then you can use it for a long, long time.
Sharon:Yes, fewer better things, I think, is definitely the way to go.
Peter:Oh yeah, absolutely. I think that once you manage to implement that, that's an absolute no-brainer. Like you said, because you used to be in like a high-flying job, so to speak, making serious money in the same way that I used to be as well, and some lifestyle choices later, means that all of a sudden, you find you don't need to make as much. Do you find that as well? You don't need to make as much money as you used to make, simply because you're buying less stuff that you don't need?
Sharon:Well, for sure, I think you know you've probably seen the numbers about and I don't know if it's 70,000 or 80,000, but there's a point at which, over which you know, more money does not materially add to your happiness. Yeah, sure what I would say, is there's been a shift too for me in terms of spending from things to experiences you know so.
Sharon:I don't really buy my family. I have three kids and you know my husband and I have never really been, you know, into buying them all kinds of things anyway. But more recently we literally have switched, like holidays, from a bunch of stuff under the tree to a trip together.
Peter:Right.
Sharon:You know, and the memories of that trip, I would so much rather spend money. You know, last year for Christmas, it was my parents' 50th wedding anniversary and we all went to Hawaii and I was like, well, here's your Christmas present is, we're going to do a surf lesson together and we're going to go to a luau, and we're going to do a surf lesson together and we're going to go to a luau, and we're going to, you know, just be in Hawaii for crying out loud. So it really was about creating those memories and then afterward turn it into a photo book for my parents, you know, to remember everything that we did together. And so I think there's again something about shifting how you spend your money and how you think about those things, as opposed to spending more for things. I think a lot of times, people, when you talk about values, again they focus on like buy organic and they're like that's expensive, that's rich people's stuff who can afford organic and fair trade, who can afford organic and fair trade?
Sharon:And the reality is it's actually buying a lot less is the most fundamental step, which makes it less expensive, and focusing on experiences instead.
Peter:So, because that's interesting, because obviously the vast majority of my listeners are parents, moms, specifically, how did you get your family on board with that shift? Because I mean the people I train their kids love 20 presents on the leafy christmas tree. They absolutely love to see a mountain of gifts. So how did you bring your kids on board with trading that for experiences and all that sort of stuff, when all their friends are probably still getting an ipad and iphone and I watch it, blah, blah, blah uh, well, I'm the parent, I mean I don't know if you know this.
Sharon:But yeah, you get to set the rules in your house when you're the parent and the idea that you just have to go along, I mean even down to like kids, birthday parties I don't know what parent invented the idea of goodie bags for every reference, like everybody who attend, but that person is burning in hell because the amount of garbage that goes through your house from you know everything from the mcdonald's toy to the dentist, sends you with the toy to everybody's birthday, to, I mean, it's just absolutely garbage. Where your house is a very short stop between you know, the factory, plastics factory that made it and the dump. Right, that's just all going to the dump. And so you know I really, even when they were young, tried to encourage my, my parents I had less success with my in-laws, but my, my parents to again pay for the ballet lessons. You know that's the gift. Or or take them downtown and to a show and that's the gift, instead of write stuff under the tree.
Sharon:And I think you know what is normal to them is is dependent on what you set to be normal. And you know I've had people ask me like, well, do you think there are a lot of people like you, or are most people more like you know, keeping up with the Kardashians? And I said, well, in my circles I'm pretty normal. I mean I'm not like exceptional or you know. And so I think the idea of who you allow to influence you and who your circles are, you know, reflects what you think is normal. And if the idea of not buying your kids all of this stuff, it feels, you know you can't imagine it, or it feels like you're depriving your children, you know, I, I can only say I think my kids are pretty healthy and happy and we have a great relationship and you know, it's not because I bought them the latest iPhone when they were 14.
Sharon:You know, I don't know. I mean it's just again. Those experiences are what build your relationships with your kids, and so what? That what's normal to them is whatever you establish yeah, it's really monkey.
Peter:See monkey do, isn't it? If they see you're not buying too much stuff, then they'll likely fall in line with that, uh, with that sort of thing as well. So let's, let's talk a little bit about the difference between values and beliefs, because you go into this in the book a little bit and it's interesting because I think a lot of people kind of mix the two up. So what would you say the difference is? And you built yeah, yeah.
Sharon:So the way I I put it in the book is, I would guess you know a lot of, uh, your listeners. A lot of people in general would say, yeah, I value family and I value fairness and I value loyalty and those are the things that they consider their values. But so why do people behave so differently in this world, or why do they support such different, let's say, public policies?
Sharon:in this world and so, for example, with the idea of like opportunity and fairness, everybody might say I value you know everybody should have opportunity. But then some people believe, based on their experience in America that's all I can speak to here, is over here in Denver but they may believe that the system is is a meritocracy and it's fair and everybody has equal opportunity.
Sharon:And other people, based on their experience and that of their family, may realize some people start with a leg up and have introductions, warm opportunities, opportunities to do unpaid internships, because their parents are actually supporting them behind the scenes, which then in turn gets them that entry-level job, which in turn, et cetera, et cetera. And so you know these beliefs about how the system works and how, whether the way it's set up today is actually enabling opportunity for everybody. It's that story, you know. Beliefs are like the stories you tell yourself about what is true, and so it's like we have the same values. I think this is where, like a lot of Americans in particular would say, you know they have the same values, but because they have very different beliefs about how the world works, they end up in wildly opposite. You know places about what we should do or what comes next, or what solutions are needed, and so it's just worth like.
Sharon:That's why I don't actually you know, I think a lot of people focus too much on your values, and I think I started that chapter you're thinking of Peter with a quote from Batman, where Rachel Dawes, who's the girl from Dawson's Creek, his name is escaping me right now.
Sharon:She says it's not like who you are underneath, it's what you do that defines you. And I think that's what I'm really trying to get is I'm less interested in talking about what are your values and I'm more interested in talking about what are you doing today. You know that is driving the world that we have and the world we want to be and the person that you want to be. And if there's a gap between you know, your actions and the values that you say that you hold, then how can we all myself very much included in this continue to shrink that gap?
Peter:Yeah, because that really is key, isn't it? It requires and I talk about this a lot with various guests that have come up, it does require a level of self-awareness, all this sort of stuff. First of all, you have to know what your, what your values are, and I think, like you said, most people are kind of aligned on wanting a better world and they want a clean environment and clean air to breathe and equality, or at least equal access of opportunity and and and all that sort of stuff. But challenging your own beliefs is kind of a tricky thing to do, especially this day and age. Everybody's in their own little echo chamber, everybody watches either CNN or Fox News, everybody's in the same Facebook group full of like-minded people that already agree with you, and everybody, in the UK at least, reads either the Guardian, which is a left-leaning newspaper, or the Telegraph which is a right-leaning newspaper and it's very difficult to tell yourself I might be wrong about something.
Peter:So where do you start on that? Obviously you come from a philanthropy background, so I'm guessing you have some sort of uh starting point there that maybe other people lacked anyways well, I, you know, I actually, I think starting with sort of things you have in common with people, right.
Sharon:so when you realize someone else is a mother and and loves their children and wants what's best for them and and you kind of you know, bond over that and then move to more difficult topics, I mean when you, just when you have a relationship with you know somebody that's based on kind of mutual like, even if you just meet them over coffee and you know you guys chat about life and what activities your kids are doing and you know where you're sending them to daycare whatever.
Sharon:You know, and then later, three months later, you know, you start to realize that maybe you have different political views.
Sharon:It's a lot easier to, you know, have those conversations or, you know, maintain those relationships when you start from that place of common ground. I actually heard one of my and here's where, like my philanthropy background comes into play one of my congress people here in Colorado is Joe Neguse and he I heard a story on on the radio the other day about how he did a service town hall, where he started this constituents town hall by doing a service project together and then got into conversation about the issues and I thought what a fantastic way to put everybody in the frame of mind of like working together to make our community better. That's what we're trying to do, we're all trying to do that, and then we have different ideas about how to accomplish that. But I thought that was just a wonderful kind of setting the commonality first. Um, you know, where we do share values of service and giving to our community and those kinds of things before um you know going into our beliefs about the news of the day.
Peter:Yeah, because that's again. That's an interesting one, isn't it? Because we all know the colleague at work that you get on with fine, especially this day and age. I mean, I'm convinced and I've been self-employed for a fair while now, but we all know the colleague at work that you used to get on fine with, and then you found out that this day and age their political beliefs, so to speak, don't necessarily line up. I know several of my American friends are good people, but they're slightly out there now, as in that you just think, how did society get so polarized with regards to their beliefs? And if you start from that perspective, as in, who do I like? Rather than that, what are we trying to do? What? What is the goal of the project? Why are we here?
Peter:It's very easy to already stop listening to people before you've even really said a word. It's very tempting to go. This guy walks around with a MAGA hat on or whatever, and I don't know anyone that still wears it. I know they're out there, but it's very difficult to say they wear the wrong hat or they wear the wrong color tie. It's one of my favorite podcasters. He also had a red tie, blue tie, right, you wear a red tie, you're said red tie, blue tie. Right, you wear a red tie, you're a Republican, blue tie Democrat, and the two shall never speak with each other because the level of cooperation is not there, because we're not trying to do the same thing anymore. But that again, that does require quite a bit of effort on the part of the individual trying to change, because society as a whole is not necessarily effort on the part of the individual trying to change, because society as a whole is not necessarily at least the media and politics is not necessarily conducive to having that sort of attitude at the moment.
Sharon:Yeah, I know, and you know, one of the things that I do is I'm pretty active on Twitter and. I follow a whole bunch of like journalists and you know political, like elected officials and as well as like philanthropy leaders and all this kind of thing. But I also made a point, probably back in 2015, 2016, to start following people of the opposite political party that I respected and I didn't necessarily agree with them, but I thought they were a good faith actor.
Sharon:I mean I thought they were like in all good faith just had a different opinion or a different belief than me, and you know it's been really interesting because there are things that we actually agree on that again come down to values where I think you know I'm surprised, and then there are still things that we disagree on, like the student loan, debt relief, yeah, that's a big thing now yeah, and seeing their you know opinions, I'm like, oh, you're so rough, like.
Peter:I so disagree with you, exactly, yeah.
Sharon:But it does make me actually, because I have that like underlying respect for them it makes me stop and think about their argument, you know, because they're actually making an argument.
Sharon:By the way, they're not people who are just like you're a moron, because you know you disagree.
Sharon:They're sort of like here's why you know, here's why you know, here's what I think that and I think actually, though social science, research would say you don't argue people out of like, you don't argue people out of their positions. What you do to be effective is ask them questions about why they believe what they believe and, like really listen to what they say and seek to understand them rather than, like seek to embarrass them or, you know, call them stupid, insult them, whatever, and it's and it's really really hard to do. But and I don't have like in my close inner circle, a lot of people that you know I, I I have personal relationships with that are that deep that I feel like okay, but I do have some, just like he's actually a work colleague who, you know, I think has like definitely gone down a path of incrementally believing things you know so that the next one builds off of it and it's taken her what I think is an extreme place, but I also try to realize she's.
Sharon:She's taken all those intermediate steps. So what looks crazy now is because it's 10 steps away, but for her each intermediate step made a lot of sense and it's like it's. It's just gone further and further. But I think, having those people that you fundamentally respect, who have, you know, like good faith, arguments for why they believe what they believe, and then, allowing myself to say, hmm, what do I think about that?
Sharon:You know, or does that challenge or change? You know how I might approach. This Is how I try to keep kind of balance and perspective.
Peter:Yeah, because you do want to be able to. I suppose, when you're talking about that into it, that life of a bit of, like you said, a bit of peace, a bit of an integrated, the overall feeling happy and content within yourself, so that at the end of your life you're like, yeah, I did the best I could right. Rather than at the end of your life you're like, yeah, I did the best I could. Rather than at the end of a life doing the Bill Gates and saying I'm giving away 90% of my money, or actually more Warren Buffett Bill gave loads of money away, more Warren Buffett just go well, I'm 90, now I can give all my money away because I don't need it anymore. That's a completely different approach. I'm not crapping on Mr Buffett, by the way. If he wants to do that, it's all fine, but it's again.
Peter:It does require an admission that maybe you can be incorrect in your beliefs that maybe the belief that you hold is not necessarily reflected in reality. It's not grounded in reality and that's a difficult thing for a lot of people to do, and I see this a lot with my friends that are not white. As I always point out to all the listeners on the podcast, I'm a middle-aged white guy. I'm much more part of the problem than I am of the solution. I'm well aware of this age white guy. I'm much more part of the problem than I am of the solution. I'm well aware of this. But my friends who are not white are describing a world to me and I've known these people for a long, long time. We've been close friends for a long time but this they're describing situations to me that are so foreign to me as as a not an asshole kind of white guy Do you know what I mean, as in that, you just think how do you even?
Peter:how does this, even when we're talking systemic issues and all that sort of stuff, when we're talking about needing a Western name on a CV because otherwise you're not going to get the interview. It's not that you're not going to get the job, you're not going to get the interview. So Steve Smith could walk in, and Steve Smith is actually from India and his real name is something completely different. Do you know what I mean? Or Asian? A lot of Chinese people have a Western name and all that sort of stuff, Because my posse, the middle-aged white guy posse're a little bit. We're a little bit wonky when it comes to dealing with this uh sort of stuff, and historically we've not always been great, but it does mean take it on board that someone else's experience can well be as real as your own experiences and therefore you might need to change your belief system here, which I think is one of the trickier things to do, especially when a lot of people mix up their beliefs with their values.
Sharon:Yeah, I say you know it's a great point about our own experience.
Sharon:We know to be true because we lived through it right and and really what we're talking about is acknowledging and accepting that other people can have experiences that were wildly different than ours, that were also true, and one of the things that, you know, often strikes me is that in america, it's become popular to talk about colleges and universities as like brainwashing kids or making them liberal. Yeah Right, but what it's, what it's really doing is especially if you came from a very homogenous, you know, community it is suddenly exposing you to a multitude of other people's experiences and realities and making you realize oh wow, my view on this is only one view.
Sharon:You know sort of like the story of the people that are all touching an elephant. And the one says, what's it like? And you know, oh, it's long and thin and really strong. And the other one's like, oh, it's a giant, like a tree. You know, I mean right, and it's like they're all just touching different parts of the the elephant and having that different experience. And they're all true, you know, they're all true.
Sharon:And so not just adopting one perspective like your own, but that realization that those are there's, there's possibility for multiple perspectives, and that broadening and then therefore, I think, often looks like what we might call liberalization or kind of, you know, becoming more progressive. But it's really because they are being exposed for the first time. I mean, I grew up in a very homogenous white Catholic. I went to Catholic school growing up and when I went to college was the first time that I lived with people of color and, you know, discovered their life stories in the dorm in a way that I had never done before. And so, yeah, did I, did I change a lot of views about, you know, what I had assumed was the American?
Sharon:experience, of course I did you know, of course I did, but it wasn't because anybody had an agenda to do that.
Peter:it was because that I just was exposed to so many other truths and just my personal truth yeah, and that's an interesting because that ties in nicely with one of the chapters like you're talking about with regards to know your power, um, the power of your network. I think you mentioned something along the line of and I'm sure I'm getting this slightly wrong, but you compare it with people functioning like they're on a migraine they're only using 5% of their actual power. They're not using the network. When it comes to charitable living rather than charitable giving and all that sort of stuff we're talking about. When you're sharing, when you're taking on board other people's experiences, then you can use that and you can use that network to improve your own uh, let's say, footprint in the world. It's again one of your phrases, just in case people are listening thinking, oh, that's a clever phrase. Yeah, it's not.
Sharon:It comes to improving your footprint in, uh, in the world, but because of this stuff, yeah, yeah, I think you know, one of the one of the really things you can do to know your power is just to take an inventory of all the assets you have. So, as you just mentioned, you know your network, um, your your own experiences, of course, and being able to speak to those, but then you are a person that has, as we talked about, the other 95% of the money flowing through your household right.
Sharon:Everything from your mortgage and your phone bill and your consumer purchases and your food and your clothing. Those are all opportunities to you know. Turn on those lights in you know advancement of your values. But also you're a person with skills you know, you're a person with a social network. You're a person with friends and family members and um you know you have like.
Sharon:Sometimes people say time, treasure, talent, um and ties as like you know a way to say what can you use in an advancement of your philanthropy. So I think really again, you know it's funny because today my consulting work is still very much with these very wealthy families that are saying you know, I believe in these causes. I want to advance through. You know my grant making and again the evolution has been like oh okay, so just in your grant making, so in the 95%, you don't really believe in that issue.
Sharon:Oh no, I do, I do, I want to do that. Okay, what about in the business where you're making the money? You don't believe, you don't want that value there.
Peter:Oh no, I do want it there.
Sharon:So it's like we've gone through this evolution of just again, again expanding the aperture of which parts of our life we're no longer going to say, wait, wait, not there, silo that off. I don't want my values reflected in my investment portfolio because I put my own self-interest ahead of like environmental or whatever kinds of things.
Sharon:So it's like we're breaking down more and more of those, of those values, to increase the power of what we have to work with. You know, um, and it's like you can go from thinking, well, I can't give very much to charity, there's not really much I can do, to suddenly going, oh my God, I have all these assets. Imagine if all of these things are aligned to you know, my intention and my purpose and the things that I care about most in the world. You know, holy crap, I'm a super. I'm a superhero. You know I'm a superhero, um, with all I can do.
Peter:Yeah, because because that really is true, isn't it?
Peter:Because historically, and I know Church of England and various charities and actually one of my former clients is a wealth manager for, let's say, one or two charities um, really rather big ones. And when he let it slip to me how much money one of the charities was sitting on, I was astonished. I was truly and utterly just gulp smacked how much money these guys had sitting there whilst they're still actively fundraising for significantly more money. So you kind of saw their commercials everywhere saying, if you donate five pounds or five dollars, then that'll make a difference and you're sitting on almost a billion, right, how much do you need? But then he said, the interesting thing is that these people are all trying to do good, these organizations are all trying to do good and they're being sensible. Like you said, they give five percent uh of their total uh, their total portfolio, so to speak, their total uh assets. They give five percent to charity every year because they can recoup five percent by making investments and therefore they'll never go bust right, which is in itself sensible, long-term approach the problem.
Sharon:Your goal is self-perpetuation. Yes, yeah, exactly, but but?
Peter:if you're saying I don't know cancer research or something like that, uh, which is a big charity in the uk, and say we've got a billion dollars sitting here, we'll invest 50 million every, every year and we'll keep doing that until we've cured cancer, because if we just throw the billion at the problem, we're not going to get there, and I think there's something maybe potentially to be said for that, as in it comes out of a place, of well-intentioned place.
Peter:I'm not saying they're right, I'm just saying there's something to be said for that. The interesting thing is that their investment portfolio and I'm not talking about for any listeners because before get emails, because I will get emails if I'm not careful I'm not saying cancer research invests in burning down the rainforest or anything like that, but it's kind of and that is what this guy was talking about. He said they're investing in weapons manufacturers, they're investing in oil companies, not green energy, and you're thinking like and again, this was not cancer research I'm talking about, just in case people are listening and they're losing their mind but it is a similar charity that has something to do with the health of people, yet, at the same time, invest money in things that are clearly in business that clearly don't really align with their values yeah I think this is a huge, huge issue and, by the way, there was a cancer related charity in the U S at one point.
Sharon:That's had a major sponsor which was a plastics.
Peter:Yeah.
Sharon:Which is like hormone disrupting cancer, like there's pretty at this point, like pretty clear links and totally unironically, you know taking this. This indulgence is money you know, it's like from from these problematic organizations, and it's exactly what happened with the gates foundation as well, like 20 years ago there was a you know expose, or like a realization, that again, I think at the time the gates foundation was giving to environmental causes and yet their endowment was invested in big oil yeah and it was like hey again, if you're, if you think you're making money and your 5% is going to solve the problems caused by the 95%, I'm here to tell you that's not like.
Sharon:How's that working out?
Sharon:for us pretty badly so far, and so it. I do think we have to change that mentality of extract as much as you can and then give a little bit of it, quote unquote, give back 5% or whatever it is, because the 95% is causing, in a lot of ways, causing the issues, whether it's poverty, whether it's environmental degradation, whether it's, you know, all kinds of issues that are 5% doesn't stand a chance, and so I'm actually not a fan of, like you know, permanent endowments. I'd say, spend today to solve it today. A lot of nonprofits, frankly, get caught in this trap where they forget that they were created to solve a problem and they think that their purpose is to self-perpetuate forever, like they must exist forever, and so they prioritize that over solving the problem today.
Peter:Yeah, that's something very. My wife used to work for a, for a children's charity, and I had to look at their books once or twice as in how much money they were getting in from various sources and how much money they were sitting on, and I just thought, yeah, but most of your expenditure is salary, as in, it's all well and good. Your CEO makes a killing compared to what they would make in the private sector, even so, then you're thinking that, yeah, who's doing what for whom here, as in, why do you have that many people working for you? Why do you work from a nice shiny office rather than an office in a cheaper part of town and all that sort of stuff? But of course, they were gifted the office and therefore they see it as a yeah, but someone gave that to us, so we have to use it sort of deal.
Peter:And it's interesting because, like you said, if you just overall because I know you're very tight for time so, overall, making getting the small decisions right. When you're talking about not just philanthropic lifestyle because, let's be honest, when most people say a philanthropic lifestyle, they're thinking of giving away all the spare money you have all the time, but you're talking about much, much more than that. When you're talking integrated life right, you're talking about getting the small things right and therefore having overall, having a significantly bigger impact.
Sharon:And you know I start the book actually by saying I'm not doing this to save the world.
Sharon:I'm doing it to save myself, and by that I mean I don't think the bar we should hold ourselves to is well, if I don't use plastic straws, then we'll solve the, you know, plastics crisis that's polluting our oceans. Because people will often dismiss these kinds of ideas by saying, please, you can't really make a difference. Okay, we need government action. Whether you use the straw or not, does not, you know, change the outcome? And I say, yeah, that's probably true, but it changes how I feel about myself. It changes how I am living in alignment with, you know, my own values.
Sharon:And that's the bar that I want because I feel happier, content, joyful, to be making those choices, rather than saying it's not my problem or you know I don't care, and so you know. The irony is, I think I start by saying you know, I'm doing this for myself, I'm not trying to save the world, but you know, ultimately in the end, if we all make those choices, that is how we will save the world in the end, if we all make those choices, that is how we will save All of us.
Sharon:Making these everyday choices, you know to to put other values ahead of our own convenience and you know giving to others as we go, whether than waiting until some magical day when we've accumulated enough which in my experience, people never, many, many people never reach that point of enough and then giving back and trying to have that 5% solve the ills of the cause by the 95%. You know that is if enough of us kind of get together and think and work and act that way, that's how we will ultimately change the world.
Peter:Yeah, no, I could not agree more. That's why one of the reasons I decided to set up a healthy postnatal body and all that sort of stuff just because I could not, not because it was a sensible decision on any level whatsoever. It's just one of those things that I can do it and therefore I probably should Do. You know what I mean. As in, if it kind of feels like I can, then what is stopping me from not doing it? Other than I can spend my time watching Netflix. Of course I could. There's some amazing stuff on there If I can give my time up for something else and maybe watch one less TV program and not catch up on 10 seasons of Breaking Bad or something.
Sharon:And the last thing I'll say is I mean, look for all your listeners, look, mama, if you are like just trying to get by and just trying to survive, order what you need to from Amazon Prime. Like, I'm not going to shame you for doing what you got to do to get by, but those of us who do have a little bit more time, a little bit more money, a little bit more luxury to make different choices. You know, if we're willing to take that on on behalf of everybody you know, we can only make things better for everybody.
Peter:Yeah, no, absolutely. I completely agree. I'm not happy. Note. I'll press stop record and, as always, press stop record is exactly exactly what I did. Thanks very much to sharon for coming on.
Peter:Uh, like I said, I'm just blown away at how simple, straightforward and you know, it's not earth shattering. A lot of this stuff I knew. I just don't carry that through in my daily life, not all the time, and I think this is the sort of stuff that her book, which is Handbook for an Integrated Life, is excellently written and it reminds you of the things you can do. So not all of this stuff will be completely new to you, it's just. It's just one of those things like a little nudge in the right direction that you're like, ah yeah, if I do this, of course I do this. It makes you question why you're doing certain things and, as I mentioned during the, a lot of this stuff I do. I do an automatic pilot, right, I need something, I order it off Amazon, that sort of thing. That's how I really used to do things. I just yeah, click, boom, ordered, and the following days it shows up.
Peter:There is a lot of unconscious decisions that I make are not actually in line with the values and Sharon's Handbook for an Integrated Life that I make are not actually in line with the values and Sharon's Handbook for an Integrated Life is an excellent reminder of what your values actually are and how. It just brings you back and reminds you how to be a bit more conscious in your decision-making. It's a wonderful read. It's a straightforward read but it's well, well worth it. I will obviously link to everything in the podcast description so that's where you'll be able to find it. Uh, in the news this week. So, uh, obviously the news been dominated this week by only one thing, and that is the queen passing away. But you know, stuff has been happening and I came across a study from the Max Planck Institute for Human Development in Berlin, because, you know, I've got nothing better to do with my time, and that is a study that shows that a one-hour walk in nature reduces stress-related brain activity.
Peter:Basically the article that I'm linking to. You'll find the study on the original publications on the left-hand side of the article, because Max Planck Institute, or Gesellschaft, as they like to call it, in.
Peter:German. They're very good at linking to their stories. So if you want to read the study, it's on the original publications. Good at linking to their story. So if you want to read the study, it's on their original publications. They found a causal link. That's the important bit a causal link between taking a 60-minute walk in nature and how the activity in brain regions involved in stress processing decreases. Basically, the amygdala and the central brain region involved in stress processing decreases. Basically, the amygdala and the central brain region involved in stress processing, as the article says, has been shown to be less activated during stress in people who live in rural areas compared to those who live in cities. So that hinted at, as I say, the potential benefit of nature. As they say, the potential benefit of nature and this was obviously their original study was from like 2017 or something like that, and this is kind of a follow-up. So they said that people who live in nature tended to be the amygdala, tended to be healthier, better developed and all that sort of stuff. But they couldn't prove a causal link. They couldn't say that this is because these people spend more time in nature compared to people in urban areas and cities and all that sort of stuff. So they ran a study, a small study, and you know what I think of a small study. You know 63 healthy volunteers, as they said, after a one hour walk through a forest or a shopping street with traffic in Berlin, and then use an MRI scanner a functional MRI scanner and said that, okay, the results show that the activity in the amygdala decreased after the walk in nature. Show that the activity in the amygdala decreased after the walk in nature, suggesting that nature elicits beneficial effects on the brain regions related to stress. So, basically, through this small study and it is a small one, and I always say it's a tiny one, it's not the most robust of all the studies that I've come across, but it kind of links in with what we know, and that is you take a nice long walk through nature and you're less stressed, right, depending on how you use it. But compared to, yeah, walking through a busy shopping street whether it's Oxford Street or Berlin or Paris or anywhere else, that doesn't really matter that's much more stressful than a nice quiet walk in nature is. So it makes sense. But the causal link is interesting and that is just another good reason that you need that.
Peter:You might need if you needed one, to go out and do stuff, if you live anywhere near Edinburgh, for instance. Go out and do stuff If you live anywhere near Edinburgh, for instance. I mean, my wife and I were away for a couple of days. Actually we were supposed to go away for two days but we only went for one night because you know I like the home too much. So we stayed near Loch Lomond and all that sort of stuff and you know it's much more relaxed, because you do feel much more relaxed if you have an entire day away from computers and traffic and all that sort of stuff. You feel better afterwards. So if you needed the reminder, as with Sharon's book, that is all about little reminders Try to do the right thing. Try to get your walk in a bit of nature, take the dog for a walk somewhere other than city center, take a drive out to the beach, all that sort of stuff. And the kind of people at the monks plank institute have kind of now proven that there is indeed a clear link between doing that and feeling less stressed physically less stressed, not not just mentally.
Peter:Anyways, that's the podcast for this week. Next week I'm doing it by myself. I've got a ton of questions and emails to get through and quite a few interesting studies as well. So you know, be back on the 18th. You have a tremendous week. You take care of yourself and, as always, peter at HealthyPostnatalBodycom. If you have any questions, healthypostnatalbodycom.
Peter:If you'd like. Hey, I like three months free PT advice, postpartum exercise advice and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, sign up. I always say you cancel on day one, you still get three months completely free access. I don't care, it's all good, take care of yourself, have a tremendous week and I'll check in on you on Sunday.
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