The Healthy Post Natal Body Podcast
The Healthy Post Natal Body Podcast
Play Dumb and Sabotage: A Revolutionary Approach to Developing Your Child's Language Skills
You know one of the often forgotten skills parents have to teach their children is speech and communication. Sure, we know it has to happen but, quite often, we don't actively think about this.
This week I am joined by Jeaneen Tang.
Jeaneen is a speech-language pathologist with over 20 years of experience working with early intervention (0-3 years old) to the elderly.
She specializes in early language development and we're talking about many things including;
Why communication skills don't develop automatically and how parents can foster better language development through intentional interaction.
Why communication and speech skills are often kind of ignored.
How to best work with your child and prevent speech issues occuring (prevention is better than curing, right?)
and much, much more.
She also shares some practical strategies for creating opportunities that encourage children to communicate more effectively.
You can find Jeaneen in all the usual places;
And Facebook
Check out "Play Dumb and Sabotage: Mindfully Under-Anticipating a Child's Needs and Creating Opportunities to Practice Language" for a practical, conversational approach to enhancing your child's speech development.
As always; HPNB still only has 5 billing cycles.
So this means that you not only get 3 months FREE access, no obligation!
BUT, if you decide you want to do the rest of the program, after only 5 months of paying $10/£8 a month you now get FREE LIFE TIME ACCESS! That's $50 max spend, in case you were wondering.
Though I'm not terribly active on Instagram and Facebook you can follow us there. I am however active on Threads so find me there!
And, of course, you can always find us on our YouTube channel if you like your podcast in video form :)
Visit healthypostnatalbody.com and get 3 months completely FREE access. No sales, no commitment, no BS.
Email peter@healthypostnatalbody.com if you have any questions, comments or want to suggest a guest.
Hey, welcome to the Healthy Postnatal Body Podcast with your postnatal expert, peter Lapp. That, as always, would be me. This is a podcast for the 13th of July 2025, a date before music. You know it means I have a guest, so you know that well, by now, we've done a few of these together. Right?
Speaker 1:I'm talking to Janine Tang today. She's a speech-language pathologist with like 20 plus years of experience working with early intervention kids and we're talking the importance of speech therapy, especially from a preventative measure, and why it's so often not discussed, especially prenatal, how speech therapy can help you, your child, develop language and skills and all that sort of stuff, and her approach and she's quite eye-openingly smart on this of how to actually get your child to talk more, to talk better, to be more communicative and to understand communication better and all that sort of stuff. You're going to absolutely love this conversation. So, without further ado, here we go. So parents need training to help children develop language and communication skills. That's a quote from that. It sounds obvious when you say it, but it absolutely never, ever comes up in any discussions about parenting skills. Why do you think that is?
Speaker 2:I think a lot of parenting skills are put you know at the front. You know when you're pregnant. You know before you have a baby you go to parenting classes what happens after the baby's born. You know how to put on a diaper, how to feed with a bottle or breastfeed or whatever it is put on a diaper, how to feed with a bottle or breastfeed or whatever it is. You know there's all these things that are taught about how to take care of this little baby.
Speaker 2:But after you take the baby home, then no one really is helping you along, unless you have great models. You know, like, say, your parents are helping you out or you have a great tribe of people around you who are helpful. But you know a lot of people. You know, like I moved to Los Angeles and my family's in Hawaii, and so you know I didn't really have anybody around me to help me with different things. Like one thing, like you don't know what you don't know until you don't know anything. Until you, you don't know something until you know it right. So I remember going to a breastfeeding meeting when my son was eight weeks old and I was exhausted. My son's dad was traveling for work, so it was just me. I'm exhausted and I'm like I'm so tired. I wake up in the middle of the night, I'm changing his diaper, putting him back to sleep, and the moms all looked at me. They're like, well, you know, if he doesn't poop, you don't have to change his diaper. And I was like what?
Speaker 1:you don't know what you don't know until you don't you know and so I think it comes same.
Speaker 2:The same language goes around teaching language and development of language, communication, because you know, you think that a child is born, a baby's born, and then they start talking you know, at a certain age and that it just happens naturally when, in actuality, there's so much that goes into it, that interaction between the parent and child.
Speaker 2:You know the playfulness. You know they have these mirroring cells in them that are copying what you do, right? So if you're making facial expressions or you're making sounds, they're going to want to try and imitate that. So you know, I worked with this one child she's four now when I started working with her, when she was two years old. Now, when I started working with her when she was two years old, you know, her mom thought that being a good mom was oh, the baby's not crying, right, the baby is dry, the baby's fed, the baby's not crying. And so this little girl, when she was two years old, she had very few words, but they didn't know why and it was because they just didn't understand that they needed to interact with her, more, play with her, more read to her, more sing with her, get right in the child's face, play with them and do all these things to encourage communication and language, that there's so much more to parenting than just making sure the diaper is dry, that the baby's fed and that they have fun toys to play with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's a really good point because it is quite something where, let's be honest, babies are boring, right, as in all the communication with a baby tends to be a one-way street. They are difficult to have full-on conversations with, unless you are like me and talk to your dogs. Then you know it's and pretend that that's a real conversation. Babies are somewhat similar. You're more talking to yourself, and I hear from a lot, of, an awful lot of my clients that they talk to their kids, but only in a structured way, so only when they read, that is, when they talk to their toddler, so to speak. There's very little what I would call loose conversation, because it's silly conversation.
Speaker 1:I'm a middle-aged white guy and therefore I talk to myself a lot because I genuinely believe I'm an interesting conversationalist for myself, as all middle-aged white guys do, right, we, we like to sound our own voice, but that doesn't not. Not everybody, not everybody knows this, and I think there's a lot of parents assume, like kind of like what you said, that the baby will automatically learn how to speak. Just because you know that's what happens. You get older, you learn how to speak. Just because you don't know that's what happens.
Speaker 2:You get older and you learn how to talk right yeah, and some children, do you know, they just start to talk, and some children need a lot more just playfulness and practice. And just like when you're talking to animals, like you know you're, you're saying your line and then you're imagining what they're saying, right, you have this conversation going back and forth. It's the same thing with a baby, right? That little facial expression when you say something to oh you, you mean to say this to me, so I'm going to say this to you, and so it's this back and forth.
Speaker 2:I say it's like an exchange of energy, right, I'm giving you something, they're giving me something, and then this is back and forth play, and there's so much of that that's missing for a lot of new parents, right, especially for their first baby, they're just so like a little anxious. They don't know what to do, right, it's very new, and so they don't know what to do, right, it's very new, and so they don't know how to play, and so it's a lot of playfulness that needs to happen so where are you then on baby talk to the kids and and and all that sort of thing?
Speaker 1:as you know, you're putting on the cute voice and the goo goo gaga style communication. Is that helpful? Or is that because I just someone hands me a baby and I'm not great with babies? I have to be honest, as you could imagine, for me saying babies are boring, right, but I just go into full adult conversation with babies because that is just I can't do the Google Gaga thing very well. But is it actually helpful? Or is it actually better off just talking like you would to slightly older children?
Speaker 2:yeah, I don't know, I do not talk to babies in a baby voice. I talk to them in like a regular voice I might change my intonation to make it sound more fun. Yeah, but I'm not gonna, you know that's that type of stuff?
Speaker 1:yeah, so is it. Um, because that's, that's funny, because all I mean I'm of a certain generation where, uh say, kids television and all that sort of stuff wasn't as much of a part of of of children's growing up and even children's education to some point, children's learning curve, as it is now, and you know there's a lot of. I mean, in the uk we have and I'm sure in the us of course as well, you have whole channels basically dedicated to kids tv. Um, is that a beneficial thing overall? Or is it the case of you want to be a little bit careful with which programs you pick and all this other stuff? So it's a bumble and blue. We are okay, but other things are a little bit more.
Speaker 2:Teletubbies are trickier just from a development perspective, not from a oh my god, the teletubbies will turn you gay perspective right, oh, um, you, I, my son is 12 and a half now, so I haven't watched a lot of the newer baby things. But I think, in general, um, I, when I tell parents it's okay to have the child watch some screen time, I like the parents to be there with them, ideally, Because then you can talk about what's happening. You know there are some shows like Zygo, Shark and Zig or something. They don't have any words, they're just like ooh, yeah, but they have a lot of actions, they have facial expressions, so I think that's those are kind of shows that can translate over different languages, right. So if someone's watching it all over the world, anybody can.
Speaker 2:Kind of shows that can translate over different languages, right. So if someone's watching it all over the world, anybody can kind of relate to it because facial expressions and sounds are kind of similar. But you know, talking about what's happening like oh, my, you know, like telling the kind of what we call language bombardment. So when a child is watching something, you might say a short phrase or make an expression like oh, you know, like wow, did that? Do you see that? What did he do? So kind of talking about it. But you know, I am a mom, a single parent, a lot of times, and so you know if I have to have my child in front of a screen for 20 minutes while I make dinner, or whatever it's going to happen, you know.
Speaker 1:So it's absolutely so.
Speaker 2:There's times when you don't have to be there with the child, but ideally, when they're watching whatever show they're watching, you know, don't leave them in front of the TV for hours by themselves, because then they just get inundated with visuals and this stimuli and all this stuff and then when you're like, okay, it's time to shut it off, then they're like you're throwing a tantrum or something. But so there needs to be a limit of unsupervised watching of screens and then that interaction with you and the child, that's, that's a part of them learning what you you're thinking and then seeing what's related on the screen and then internalizing it as well yeah, because that's a really good point, that that you make most kids tv is is visual more than anything, more than verbal communication.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of bright colors and all that sort of stuff. So those are the senses that they're really trying to hit. And I'm sure that there's focus groups behind every TV program is a focus group these days, so they'll want to make the most let's call it be nice, and call it engaging television for children, rather than say addictive and and all that type of stuff. But at least most engaging and aren't, I suppose what what you're saying? If you watch it with the child and you have conversations about it or you insert phrases, you add a whole other dimension to the potential learning experience that watching television yeah and and youtube clips.
Speaker 1:Actually, is that um and it's? It's interesting that something you mentioned is um with regards to the book which is obviously called play dumb and and sabotage, which I have to admit I haven't read right Right, but it's one of those. I'm guessing from the title, because the title fascinated me and because it kind of gives away what the approach is, as in having your children think about what, what they meant to be, what, what their meaning, what what they want to say and all that sort of stuff, rather than just throwing it out there and, like you say, I think you called it overestimating what is. I just had it, see, I did prepare.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's Play Dumb and Sabotage right. And then the subtitle is Mindfully Under-Anticipating a Child's Needs and Creating Opportunities to Practice Language Under-anticipating that's what it was.
Speaker 2:So we as parents and caregivers, even teachers, we know what children want. We know what our child wants, right. So we over-anticipate and as good parents, we over-anticipate when they're hungry, when they're what they want to play with, what they want to eat and what they want to do throughout their day, because that's what we think good parents are right, because we want to make sure our child's needs and wants are met. But by doing that we often are doing too much for the child and we're not letting that child interact naturally with the environment. A lot of times, you know, we know what that means oh, they wanted this toy. It means they want milk or whatever it is. You know this toy? Or ah, it means they want milk or whatever it is.
Speaker 2:You know, and I think as parents and we we have a child that's maybe delayed in their speech, but we understand everything that they want we don't realize that there is a delay you know, and so, and then parents have to understand that when a delay is identified by an educator or a speech therapist or a doctor, it's not a critique or a ding on how you are as a parent.
Speaker 2:You just are not a professional, right? Yeah, of course you should not fix your toilet unless you're a plumber, or if you're very versed in doing that, or not fix your engine if you're a plumber, or if you're very versed in doing that, or not fix your engine if you're not a mechanic, right? So you're not expected to know all these different nuances of how to introduce and practice language with your child unless you've already been taught that. And that's what the book is meant to do. It's like it's this conversational handbook. Any parent, caregiver, it's this conversational handbook. Any parent, caregiver, teacher, you know, anybody who interacts with a child, can pick up and they can read through the book and after every chapter there is an exercise for them to practice.
Speaker 2:So one chapter is don't ask a yes, no question unless you're ready to honor the no. So when you think about that, is we ask yes, no questions to kids all the time? Are you ready to do your homework, are you ready to clean up, are you ready to take a bath? We're asking all these questions and if they say no, what do you do? Or parents go through this whole thing of do you want to eat an apple, do you want a banana, do you want crackers, do you want cookies, do you want this or that? And then it's like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, right. And so you go down this rabbit hole of nose and you're like I don't know what they want. So one way to get around that is offer choices. So you know, for my son I'll be like hey, like hey, you know your nails are getting long, we need to cut them. Do you want to cut them tonight or tomorrow night?
Speaker 2:you know, I give them a choice or I'm like, hey, let's get dressed. You want to wear the blue shirt or the red shirt? And I'll hold things about shoulder width apart, so even if the child can't speak, they can look at one of them and then I'll fill in the blank, you know. So if they are looking at the blue shirt, I'm like, oh yeah, let's wear blue today. I love blue, you know. You put them on, you talk about what things are blue or whatever it is.
Speaker 2:Or it's snack time, do you want to have a cracker or a banana? You know, and hold up two things and what they're hearing is the vocabulary. They're seeing, seeing the item, and then they're making that choice. So it gives them a little bit of autonomy, right, they have this power, they are making a choice and they're also learning, right, if I'm doing an activity with a kid in speech therapy, I might say you know, I have a book and a puzzle, which one first? You know. So I want them to do two things or two activities. We're going to do something, right, you get to pick what it is. And then, if it's an articulation child, I'm not going to say can you say elephant, can you say hippopotamus, because if they say no, then where am're stuck? Where am I?
Speaker 2:yeah but I might say caterpillar, you say it, or elephant, your turn, you know. So I'm I'm making the model, but I'm also giving them a direction. Like here you go, and so at the end of the chapter it's going to break down. You know, like what are some? Yes, no questions you find yourself saying throughout the day to your child or anybody right. And then how can you change that to be a choice question or maybe a directive instead?
Speaker 1:that's really interesting because I suppose by giving and a lot of this will be dependent on where the child is developmentally and age-wise and all that type of stuff but fundamentally, you're really much more teaching them how to have a conversation rather than anything else, right?
Speaker 1:Which is really, I suppose, where we all want to get to, as, uh, if you're a parent, you want to be able to raise as I always say, you know, your job is to raise the most complete and, uh, well put together adults that you possibly possibly can.
Speaker 1:So that means having some sense of how to have a conversation with someone, how to set boundaries, how to do all that sort of fun stuff that a lot of kids, I don't think, necessarily get taught, because it's like, because it's not because the parents are deliberately not teaching them that, but it's mainly because of what you said earlier you don't know what you don't know, and you do see a lot of that, especially the what do you want for lunch? What do you want, what do you want as a snack, do you want an apple, do you want a banana and do you want this, and then you go for a whole list of food items instead of the child just pretending you don't even know, right as in what do you want for lunch? Do you want this? I don't know what you mean. If you just raise a finger Right, point to the thing you want or say the word that you want, that, I suppose, is the fastest way to get them to pick up the skills that everybody wants them to have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then when you look at the sabotage part, you know the sabotage is really about practice. It's not destructive. My mom says don't use sabotage, it sounds destructive. I'm like no sabotage, play dumb and sabotage. So it's just creating practice, right. So on a skill. So it's like if you're going to play basketball you're not just going to shoot a free throw every now and then You're going to practice it right, because when it's time to shoot a free throw you want to be able to make it. So a simple example would be during snack time, when they do decide I want Cheerios or I want grapes or whatever it is, give them a couple pieces rather than the whole bowl. A lot of parents will just give a whole bowl of goldfish, you know. So the child doesn't have to interact anymore.
Speaker 2:The interaction is done because you've now provided everything they could possibly need at that moment. So you give them, you know, three Cheerios and then you have the rest of the Cheerios in sight but out of reach, and then that way the child can practice either signing for more, saying more I want more Cheerios, please, or whatever, whatever level they are for communication, you can also do that with your liquids or whatever they're drinking, right? So it's just practice. And parents often you know they don't think about that because giving a whole bowl is like okay, I provided everything my child wanted in that moment, yeah, the needs are met.
Speaker 2:And then you know simple things like bubbles or wind up toys, where something happens, and then it's done, and if they want it to happen again, they need to ask for it, and if they, want it to happen again. They need to ask for it. So if you blow the bubbles and they want more bubbles, then they need to ask for more or more bubbles. I want bubbles, I want more bubbles, please. So you have different levels of communication based on how they are performing.
Speaker 1:But you are hopefully building towards that longer length of utterance or longer sentence. Yeah, and that's a wonderful thing. That just made me think. I suppose this also translates to children with different learning abilities and all that sort of stuff, so kids who are I'm not necessarily fully non-verbal autistic, but at that sort of thing, that this approach is much more effective with them, rather than to help improve their skills, rather than just handing them. The bowl of this will keep you quiet for a little while, because the needs are met.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes. So the practice is important for all children, but I've been working in the field of speech therapy for over 23 years now and I've worked with a lot of children with special needs. And I've worked with children who are just expressive language delay right, they're just not speaking, but they understand everything. And these types of strategies have worked with all of those types of children.
Speaker 1:So it's very applicable to any child. Yeah, because we see a lot of this stuff now, because I know, like I said before, we started recording on like 300 plus episodes in and I never considered covering the subject until you got in touch and I thought, jesus, how have I missed this? You know, it seems so, because it seems obvious, because I know top of my head. I know at least three kids that are working with somebody like yourself right now, but in almost every case it was a health service recommendation. So in our case it's the NHS and in the US the child's doctor would recommend maybe it's a good idea if you work with somebody like yourself, to help bring it out, because it's not something parents necessarily anticipate needing to know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, they don't anticipate needing it and they're hoping they don't need it, even if they might have some kind of gut feeling that something is delayed right, have some kind of gut feeling that something is delayed right Because there's this sense of like ego and failure that goes along with it. Right, You're like well, am I not a good parent if my child is not speaking right? Am I a bad parent if my child needs to get therapy, extra help? And that often will delay the parent from reaching out for help and it also will delay them from being receptive to being told that they need a little extra help as well. So, yeah, so I want parents to understand that. You know, getting help with their child will help to close that gap early on.
Speaker 2:Early language intervention is really important and, you know, hopefully, like if people are able to read the book or get the information from the book and apply that as their child is developing, then they won't need that speech therapy, you know, down the road, Because there are so many children that need speech therapy.
Speaker 2:You know, I live in Los Angeles and we have so many endless referrals for early intervention speech therapy and a lot of these kids are physically, they're fine. They can run around, they can climb, they seem to understand everything that's being told to them. Right? They're just late talkers, and a lot of times it is because their parents are great parents and they over-anticipate what the child needs, that the child doesn't really have to communicate on their own, you know. So the child has learned that I can make a grunt and my parent will rush and give me what I want. And so a lot of times, by being a really great parent, sometimes we are inhibiting the child's language growth and doing them a disservice when we don't mean to be mean to do that at all. And it's not the parent's fault per se, it's just they just didn't have the tools to be equipped to deal with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, absolutely. And of course, the more you see it, of course, the more normalized it becomes. Right, and I don't know if you've noticed it, but I have a real problem, for instance, with Facebook support groups, as in. They bother me tremendously because parents would log on to these things and, for instance, say, oh, my child is three years old and hasn't started talking yet, and someone else will go well, mine didn't say a word until she was four and others say, yeah, it's because it, it, it normalizes that type of stuff, right, and that then then you're talking about the, the parent already reluctant, kind of feeling like it. This is, yeah, my parents told me that I started talking when I was much younger. My child is maybe a bit slow, but everybody else is telling me this is kind of okay and and normal, or several people are, um, so that makes you then even less likely to go absolutely and and reach out for help.
Speaker 1:Um, and I see most of this stuff from a, because what you're talking about with regards to ego and all that sort of thing, because that's definitely true, right, especially for well, maybe with regards to this type of stuff, a little bit more for men than for dads, than a lot of the other things to do with postnatal, with kids and mothers. Usually, a child being slightly behind the curve or something reflects poorly on the mother, if you know what I mean. That's how people see it, and in this case it may well be that the dad gets a bit more of the oh my boy jeans, right? Men feel that type of stuff Incorrectly. Of course, and just for anybody listening to this new for the first time, this is horseshit, this thinking, but it's fundamental. It is still. They might be a bit more involved in this, but asking for help is kind of, in this case, it's like asking for a tutor if your kid isn't great at math. Right by the time they're 16.
Speaker 1:It's just yeah we're going to bring a tutor in for a little while. This is not a big deal if you address it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely big deal if you address it. Yeah, absolutely, and I feel like parents need to understand that it is no judgment on their parenting skills at all. It's just, um, that the child might need a little extra help. And going back to the whole dad ego thing, I we had this one child who we had to talk to the parents a few times before they were convinced that, you know, speech therapy was the road that their child needed to have, because the child was not speaking clearly, very, very gibberish, not very, very many real words. And so I remember talking to the father and he was like, well, what can you do for my son that I can't? Yeah, well, you know, I do have a degree and I have a lot of experience and you know, it's just, it's just different and working. You know, I have a child.
Speaker 2:My son has special needs because he had a fall and brain injury when he was 13 months old, and so he has special needs right. So I can see the world from a therapist standpoint, a speech therapist as well as a parent of a child with special needs, and I know that I can get more out of a child as a speech therapist than their parent might be able to right Because there's a different relationship therapist than their parent might be able to right Because there's a different relationship and I know as a special a parent with a special needs child, that my child's therapist might be able to do something a little bit different than what my child is able to do with me because there's a different dynamic, you know. But hopefully whatever they learn in their therapy sessions gets generalized at home and then into the community as well and playfulness, and that happens and that helps the child learn faster, you know. So they can take it home and then then to wherever they're going to grandma's house or whatever it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that reminds me of something that I tend to say to to my clients when clients ask me about okay, why, why would I? What is the best way to recover postpartum or something like that. Well, ideally you work one-on-one with someone. If you can't afford that or you don't have access to that, then that's fine and that's great, then two-on-one or four-on-one.
Speaker 1:And if you can't swing that or you don't have access to that, then make sure that the advice you're getting you're getting from a professional, such as you buy your book or you do the right postpartum recovery program or you get think is a horrible phrase, because there are professionals that have done that for you, so you don't need to do that anymore. And when you're saying that, what can I, what can you do that I can't figure out for myself, that I can't figure out for myself, oh yeah, like you said, if you study stuff for four years in a structured manner and you have 20 years of experience and all that sort of stuff, you could probably do a lot that I can't do for myself. I can watch all the YouTube stuff I want and pick up bits and pieces.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 1:But the skill level is different and when you're talking about the relationships that kids have with outside, I suppose it's much easier. That's what I find. I train some younger athletes and as soon as dad walks into the room, the dynamic changes. So the child that would always listen to whatever I tell him or her would all of a sudden dad say something, and I think because men and sports and all that sort of stuff right, they all played baseball when they were younger or failed NFL star and all that sort of stuff, they all played baseball when they were younger or failed NFL star and all that type of stuff.
Speaker 1:So they come in and they're like, oh, this is what we used to do and the child immediately switches to I don't need to listen to him anymore or I don't need to use full sentences anymore, I suppose, because the needs are met by the grant, as you said earlier on Right. So if, whereas if you've built up a relationship where, no, you need to ask for stuff and you need to ask politely for things and you need to use whole words and phrases or as best you can or point at the right thing, but they've learned that when mother or dad, mom or dad walks in the room, and if I just make this noise, then I'm going to get what I want anyways, then, that they have fewer barriers, as well as a huge skill set advantage.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely. So you know, I tend to try and push a child a little bit further, stretch their abilities, because I know where they're able to perform at and I know where they can eventually just stretch themselves a little bit further. And oftentimes a parent will come in and then the child becomes very much you know, mama's boy or daddy's girl, and then they're just, you know, whining or crying and they just get whatever they want. And so a lot of, you know speech therapy for young children, or whine because the child is gaining these skills and the ability to communicate. And if you're just giving in every time they whine, then you're, you know, stepping two steps back one step forward, two steps back. And so a lot of times you know a parent doesn't want their child to cry, of course, right, we don't want our child to be upset or uncomfortable or things like that. Uh, one of my chapters is no child's ever died of crying as, as far as we know, you know so, it's okay for a child to cry. It really leans upon the idea of you know, you, you would never have a baby who can't walk. You would not expect them to go from crawling to running, right, but you might have them go from standing to taking their first steps, or from taking a couple steps to walking, and then so on and so forth, right? So when you're thinking about your child and their communication, can they sign? Can they make the first sound of a word? You know, I'm not going to have a child who cannot say their first word to now say three word sentences. But if a child can sign for more or please, or something, I'm going to wait until they're able to do that sign before I give them what they want, right? Instead of just oh, they're whining a little bit, I'm just going to give them their toy, you know, because I know what they're able to do. Right, if they can say one word, I'm going to have them perform at that level before they get their item. If they can say two words, then so on and so forth.
Speaker 2:But when the child is trying to play the heartstrings of their parent and just go, oh, you know, and they expect the parent to just give in, a lot of times parents give in, right. So it's a lot of parent practice on how to be a little bit more, you know, hold your ground, be a little bit more stubborn. I would say, be a little bit more stubborn than your child, because kids can be really stubborn yeah, they're really good at it, right. And so you have to be just a little bit more stubborn than your child, because kids can be really stubborn yeah, they're really good at it, right. And so you have to be just a little bit more stubborn than them.
Speaker 2:And sometimes it's it's difficult as a parent because you're like, well, I don't want them to cry, but you often will know that that by you know, with whether it's an exercise like for sports or for language, having them work a little bit harder will create these larger gains down the road yeah, and and this is somewhere where I I'm a big fan of buying the right book from the right person, right, um, because, let's be honest, we all kind of think we can figure most of this stuff out a little bit, because it should be a natural instinct.
Speaker 1:Again, air quotes there for anybody listening. But let's be honest, we only have a limited amount of patience, right, and sometimes it's easier to just give the bowl of goldfish and just be done with it when you've had a shitty day and you're up to there already and you have a million things to do and then you also have, you know, this to do and you're kind of figuring it out and is it working? Is it not working? If you don't know whether the approach you're taking is actually working or not, it would really help if you just read a book that tells you listen. If you just do this, you don't have to do everything, you don't have to throw the kitchen sink at your kid in an effort to develop this skill. If you just follow these steps, then you will get to where you actually want to be. You actually want to be, um, because it's it's like you said.
Speaker 1:I am very much of the if you can, if you can say one word, so to speak oh, let's, uh, let's try a sentence there, big boy. Do you know what I mean? Even though it might not be the correct approach at all, because I am not a licensed professional, right? So I would then be in that camp, and then I'd probably get frustrated when it doesn't actually produce the results I want, whereas your approach say, yeah, push them a little bit, but come on, p, don't be silly, don't expect miracles, we'll probably get them there a lot quicker, right? So it's, it's the changing that mindset, and and and therefore educating yourself by listening to the right people in this case, yourself and and just getting the book so that you know, or, or whatever online course, or whatever people decide to decide to go for, just taking the right steps in the right order, will get them to the end point significantly faster than just guessing their way through it in the way that, say, my parents used to absolutely.
Speaker 2:I think that, um, you know, you know I'm building an online course for as we speak, so I'm trying to trying to do that this year so people can have the book and also do the course, to kind of have a practice that goes along with it as well, and some people might do better with an online course and reading a book. You know the book is available in hardcover as well as a Kindle or electronic form and audio, so people learn in different ways, right? So you know everything is so. It's so digestible and easy to understand. You know I didn't write it as a textbook and I don't you know picking up a book. As a parent, you know learning about parenting skills. I don't want to read a textbook. Parent, you know learning about parenting skills. I don't want to read a textbook.
Speaker 1:I want to read something that comes from experience and is easy to understand and applicable like now yeah, well, yeah, because that is the big thing, because I am a big fan of textbooks, because those I read, but that doesn't mean I apply them right.
Speaker 1:It just means I read them for reading's sake. If I'm looking to apply something in the moment, a textbook is no good whatsoever, and I would even argue that textbook knowledge is no good whatsoever when it comes to applying stuff in the moment. Practical books such as yours are much more usable because I remember I mean, I read all the textbooks in the world when I went to uni and all that sort of stuff and I came out of uni I was probably dumber than I was when I went in as in, because I had all this textbook knowledge that I had no idea how to apply because no one ever taught me how to apply it. So it makes a lot of sense for normal people, so to speak, so people that are not nerds and don't study this stuff for a living to not buy a 200-page textbook on speech therapy and all that sort of thing. So, basically, what you have to do to get your qualifications, don't read those books. Just read the books that say and this is how you apply this stuff.
Speaker 2:Sorry.
Speaker 1:So cool, so we've covered quite a bit. Was there anything else you wanted to touch on?
Speaker 2:I think we covered a good chunk of like some of the strategies in the book. Obviously, there's a bunch of different other things in there as well, different strategies like you know clapping out syllables and you know putting words with music. Like one of the things I love to do is changing the words of a nursery rhyme tune to be applicable to whatever activity I'm doing, you know. So it's that it builds that language side on your left side of your brain and bridges it with the music side, which is on the right side of the brain, and bridges it together Because you can remember. If you think back when you were in high school, you can remember your favorite song in high school, the lyrics, right, but you couldn't remember, I'm sure, your dissertation at uni.
Speaker 1:No, no, no. I mean I could tell you what it was about, but that's pretty much that, right? Yeah, exactly no, and that's a good point, right? And this brings us to all these cutesy little videos that you get on Instagram and TikTok of little kids being wonderful at something, skiing or something like that, where there's one little girl I can't even remember what her name is. It's terrible, but I follow the family on Instagram in a non-creepy way, and she is an awesome snowboarder, as in. She's ridiculous at snowboarding, but she sings these little songs to herself to remind her what to do. And this is where I turn and that is what I do, and you know that's probably if I ever pick up snowboarding. That's how I will need to learn it, because otherwise it goes out of my head.
Speaker 1:But that's a good point, that there are many techniques that people can actually apply. It isn't a straightforward. This is the one thing you have to do or you will fail. Right, you have a as a professional, and this is again. The benefit of working with a professional is that, or taking advice from a professional, is that you can get tailored advice to suit what works for you. Get tailored advice to suit what works for you, rather than just copy and paste the one thing that works for someone else, which is what we tend to do when we listen to our friends, right, if? If you talk to your friends, and it's quite regularly, oh, this works for little jimmy, so why don't you try the same for and for your kid? And usually what works for little Jimmy might not actually be what works for yours.
Speaker 1:So on that happy note, I think, like I said, I've covered a tremendous amount here. I will press stop record here, and press stop record is exactly what I did. Thanks very much to Janine for coming on. Her book Play Dumb and Sabotage is out now and I would say that every parent-to-be should definitely consider buying it. It's one of those things that, like I said, it just doesn't come up a lot, and I think she raises a really good point that a lot of speech issues, communication issues can actually be prevented, and that is, you know, prevention better than the cure and all that sort of stuff. Right, you know this here, my friends. Next week we'll do another one for the Vault peterhealthyplusnativebodycom. By the way, if you have any questions or comments, a few weeks from now I think, we're doing a Q&A. And here is a new bit of music. And you go on and have a wonderful week. Take care. Bye now. The, the, the, the the. Got me digging way too deep in the feelings. Got me digging way too deep in the feelings.
Speaker 2:I have swung too far. I can't focus. You say who you are and I've noticed If I fall apart, could you hold this? You got me digging way too deep in the feelings and I'm over here looking for all the reasons. So, if you're gonna stick around and if you plan to hold me down, be patient, cause I'm finding out that I might need ya. Yeah, don't wanna mess up. I can't lose your love. I can't get enough, and I'ma keep my heart right by my side. Yeah, I can act tough. Don't mean I belong. You got me myself. Matter of fact. You might just be surprised, yeah.
Speaker 2:So if you're gonna stick around and if you plan to hold me down, be patient, cause I'm finding out that I might need ya. Yeah, don't wanna mess up. I can't lose you. I can't get it, and I'ma keep my heart, but by my side, I can act tough. Don't mean I don't love. You got me so Matter of fact. You might just be surprised, but I'ma suck. I can't lose your love. I can't lose your love. I can't get enough, and I'ma keep my heart right by my side. I can act tough. Don't need all the love.
Speaker 1:You got me in love. Matter of fact, you might just be surprised. I'm a baby and I'm a baby. I'm a baby.