The Healthy Post Natal Body Podcast
The Healthy Post Natal Body Podcast
The Perfect Diet Myth With Brian Keane
In this week's episode I once again bring you an interview I did with personal trainer, author, podcast host and all-round-good-guy-and-happy-chappy Brian Keane.
You might, or should I say "should", know Brian from the Brian Keane podcast ( which is one of THE top nutrition podcasts in the UK) and his social media presence. He is one of my favourite people in the health and fitness world at the moment as he never tries to sell you a shortcut, is always truthful and is very generous with his knowledge and expertise.
We are talking "the PERFECT diet".
How do you go about finding the perfect diet?
What is the most important thing when it comes to diet?
Why the diet your friend recommended does not work for you.
Should the health and fitness industry stop dealing in black and white?
Are cookbooks/recipe books beneficial?
And much more. Anyone who is familiar with Brian's work will know he is one of THE guys to talk to about this sort of thing and I have no doubt at all that you'll be inpired and get a tonne of useful information from this episode.
Brian can be found in all corners of the internet, he is everywhere!
His website
Make sure to catch The Brian Keane podcast
Instagram
Facebook
You can find his books on Amazon, and I'm sure other places as well.
In the news this week (from a while ago); This "good news for millions of women" article from WBUR about vaginal fluid transplants. Yes the science is new but it does hold a lot of potential.
Reminder; HPNB still only has 5 billing cycles.
So this means that you not only get 3 months FREE access, no obligation!
BUT, if you decide you want to do the rest of the program, after only 5 months of paying $10/£8 a month you now get FREE LIFE TIME ACCESS! That's $50 max spend, in case you were wondering.
Though I'm not terribly active on Instagram and Facebook you can follow us there. I am however active on Threads so find me there!
And, of course, you can always find us on our YouTube channel if you like your podcast in video form :)
Visit healthypostnatalbody.com and get 3 months completely FREE access. No sales, no commitment, no BS.
Email peter@healthypostnatalbody.com if you have any questions, comments or want to suggest a guest.
If you could rate the podcast on your favourite platform that would be a big help.
Hey, welcome to healthy Postnatal Body Podcast with your postnatal expert, peter Lap. that, as always, would be me. This is a podcast for the 31st of August 2025 and it's from the vault again, because last week we did dyslexia and next week we're doing a postpartum diet. And I'm tying that in a little bit with this from the vault episode, because in 2022, I had a conversation with Brian Keane, who's like one of the top nutrition guys on social media and his podcast was the Brian Keane podcast. Funnily enough, it was huge and it was phenomenal. And we had a conversation about how to find the perfect diet. You know what's the most important thing about diets that you're doing? Whether cookbooks, recipe books are actually beneficial and all that type of stuff. Whether a diet that works for your friend doesn't necessarily work for you, and whether the health and fitness industry needs to stop dealing in black and white issues All that type of stuff. We discussed many, many things. He's a lovely bloke, so that's what we're doing today.
Peter:I would like to give first give a little shout out to something that a previous guest that I had on, sari Rose. You might remember her from an episode a while ago. When did we do this April 2025. Basically, she's a therapist, right and um, and she created this little ai tool called sari connected gpt with some of you uh parents between the ages of parents, for kids between the ages of 5 to 18, what to say in hard moments, and all that basically scripts for inspiring teens, emotional check-ins, all that type of stuff. Anyway, she got in touch saying that she's created that and you know, I'm always happy to refer people to, to people that I like and that I trust, and Sari Rose is one of those is one of those people, so check them out. I'll put the link in the podcast description if you're at all interested. It's like a free seven day trial and all that sort of stuff.
Peter:As always, I don't get paid for anything, right? I don't do affiliates. I don't do payment for recommendations. If I see something I like and I trust the person, then I recommend them to you and otherwise I do not, right, it's kind of a thing. Anyways, back to back to the Perfect Diet with Brian Keane. You're going to love this episode. Brian, absolutely crush this. So, without further ado, here we go. Okay, so let's start, like I said, with the easy question so what is the best diet in the world?
Brian:it's a great question, peter, to kick us us off and, to be honest, I could go in a million different directions with it, because, ultimately, the best diet is the one that's in alignment with your goals, that you can stick to, and then you're just reverse engineering that. So if you're postnatal, or if your goal is purely weight loss, if you are training for a couch to 5k or a half marathon, your goals are going to be different. So, based on the goal, you want to reverse engineer and have a plan in place that gets you towards that goal. Now I also have kind of things that help people keep on track.
Brian:I think it's really important to include foods that you enjoy, making sure that it fits into your lifestyle and schedule, but we can unpack it in any direction you like. But I think it's very important for people to understand that there's not a one size fits all when it comes to diet out there. If that was the case, everybody would eat the same way, we'd all follow the same diet and we'd all have the results we wanted. It's a case of well, what am I looking to do in terms of my specific goals, and what nutritional strategy and protocol do I need to follow. What foods do I need to include? That helped me get there.
Peter:Yeah, because that's an interesting one, because I'm sure you come across this a lot as a PT as well. The amount of people I have come into me saying my friend did keto, so I have to do keto because that works for her or him and therefore that's going to work for me. That's going to be the diet.
Brian:For me it's the same as to. You've given me a kind of a very unintentional. I don't mean to cut across you, peter, but just because when people say that you know karen did keto or jane did slimming world or whoever did x, y or z, I always think, well, you wouldn't wear their shoes. I was like you know, it's the exact same equivalent. Like you might be a size six, meaning that, yeah, you can borrow Karen's shoes or you might follow that diet she did and it works great for you. But if you're a seven or a five or a nine or a three, it's going to be a terrible fit and diets are exactly the same.
Peter:You're looking for the nutritional fit that works for you yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely, and feel free to cut across me anytime. That's kind of how this whole thing works, because it is quite often the way diets are sold, especially in the health and fitness world. The way diets are sold are almost like it's taken all the personalization out of it, right with a lot of pts and and I and I know for a fact you don't fall into this cap, but you'll have worked, you'll have seen personal trainers in gyms like this they sell slim fast or they sell herbal life or they sell whatever, and therefore that is what they recommend. They don't necessarily look at their client goals. They don't adopt any, any diet or diet advice to that client's goals. They just tend to go along the line of this is what I like and therefore this is what you will have to do, and if you don't like it, go work with somebody else.
Brian:I think it's really important for people to have a bit of a critical eye on where nutritional advice or where dietary advice is coming from, meaning that if the person has an incentive to promote a certain product or a certain style of dieting, then there's a good chance that that person isn't going to be as objective as you probably want in a nutritionist, a dietitian or a personal trainer or a coach that can help you and I think the understanding that, as the consumer, as the person potentially buying into a nutritional strategy or any diet out there, I think that's arming yourself with the knowledge, because we kind of want to default, to trust. Like most of us will look at a personal trainer, look at a nutritionist, look at a dietitian and especially if they're in shape or they've worked with a lot of people who they've got into shape, our mind wants to go to. Well, they clearly know what they're talking about and maybe they do, but if they're promoting a product or a diet or something, a supplement line, that is very clearly incentivized for them meaning that they're an affiliate for them or they're working with that company, then you probably have to approach it with a little bit of a critical eye and ask well, actually, has this person got the best intentions for me or are they trying to line their own pockets? And you know I'm all for each to their own in this world. Everyone will have their different approach, but I think it's important to know that going in because, again, I'm not a fan of those companies as you mentioned. Like I think there's other approaches that tend to work better, but some people like them. Like I won't throw the baby out with the bath water completely, but it is a case of where you're getting your nutritional advice from.
Brian:Like what I love about your podcast, peter. My podcast does this. There's other coaches out there and trainers out there do something similar. We kind of work as a filter for people, meaning that we filter a lot of the information so people can see well, this is the noise and this is the signal. This is where you should be paying attention. This is where you shouldn't, this is what you should be ignoring. This is a fad. This is what could potentially help you and I think these conversations are important for that and it brings that awareness to people and I think that arms them with the first tool that can potentially help them with whatever dietary strategies they do decide to follow yeah, no, I'm completely with you because, at the end of the day and this is what I always, uh, discipline, always trying to talk about is the whole point of a personal training is that it's personal to you, right?
Peter:otherwise I'd just be a coach, I would just be a level two group exercise instructor. Nothing wrong with that. Those guys are making a killing and probably more money than we do. Let's be honest.
Brian:There's, uh, but the point of a personal trainer and personalized diet advice is that it's personal to you, um, and that it should fit your lifestyle and, like you said, your goals 100 and with diets in particular, you're looking for kind of a square peg into a square hole, meaning that there might be elements of a ketogenic diet or intermittent fasting or clean eating or a paleolithic diet or a plant-based diet. That works really well for you, but you need to make tweaks and alterations to it. So, for example, my nutritional strategy is largely adapted form of paleo. I eat a lot of whole foods, nutrient dense foods, loads of plants, but strict paleo for me doesn't make sense With my training load. I train quite intensely. I do a lot of high intensity runs and CrossFit and endurance events, so I need a little bit more carbohydrate. That would be on a traditional paleolithic plan or paleo diet. So you're making those slight alterations to you.
Brian:So, with the nutritional strategy that you're thinking of following, first you need to determine your goal. Is it to try and get your weight or body fat back down after you know having your child or having a child? Or is it, you know you're at a different season in your life now and you just want to get into the fittest and healthiest you've ever been? So your energy levels are high? You need to determine that first and foremost, and then all you're doing is reverse engineering, like there are basic nutritional protocols that no one can kind of counter or argue against, like calories make a difference, that understanding basic caloric intake is important ie not eating too many calories if you've a fat loss or weight loss goal and things like nutrient density of food is important and can't be really counter-argued.
Brian:Some foods are more nutrient dense plants, complete protein sources, healthy fats, your avocados, your nut butters, your complex carbohydrates to a degree, your brown rice, your quinoa.
Brian:All of these foods are quite nutrient dense, so they're going to keep you feeling fueled and feeling more energized throughout the day. So you're more likely going to be able to hit whatever goal you've set for yourself, whether that's going for the gym multiple times a week or being more active, so you're going for walks after work or just being energized so that you can play with your kids. Lots of different goals, common shapes and forms and having the basic nutritional fundamentals of well. This is how calories work in terms of energy energy out for your body. This is how nutrient density works, ie the foods that give you the vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients you need, and then everything else outside of that is down to what works best for you. So once you know those core principles of calories and macros, to a degree if you need to, but more so nutrient deficiencies and nutrient density of foods, once you know that everything else is nearly up for negotiation.
Peter:Yeah, because that's an interesting bit that you mentioned about, because there are a lot of people that have separated this stuff in the fitness industry, cause I have kind of like an angle right there, like the, the meat doctor, that says you only need to eat red meat, or people don't eat enough red meat, and you know, vegans are all going to die a horrible, slow, painful death. And then you have the other guys on the other side of the spectrum. They said no, you should never touch any meat whatsoever. And they said no, you should never touch any meat whatsoever. Um, and, because it's fiber that makes all the difference when it comes to feeling fuller for longer and all that sort of stuff. And then you look at the research and look at the studies and all the stuff and the studies actually say actually, guys, it's, it's kind of both, it's protein and fiber. Uh, and you can take one element of it and you can tweak it. Sure, but it's tempting to only look at the extremes.
Peter:I once went to a nutrition course by a very, very big nutritionist in the UK, very famous, one of the top. They paid a lot to go to the course and they literally said calories don't matter, and that wasn't like the introduction opening statement as in. This will be a shock. And now, well, I will explain why. That was pretty much the summation of the entire course and I thought, okay, we spent a lot of money on this and we have to agree on the basics Calories matter, calorie intake matters. That is just the way it is. The law of thermodynamics always applies and I'm very much with you in the camp that after that you're looking at the quality of the food you're eating.
Peter:Nutrient density and macros are interesting to tinker with. But most people, you know and I'm guessing you get this as well most people say I, I just can't eat enough protein. Yeah, and you're thinking to yourself. We're in the west. Most people have massively over consumed their protein macro. For for what their goals are. Um, yeah, I've never come across anyone that says they can't hit their carb markers. Michael Phelps, maybe, but unless you're an Olympic-level athlete, carbs are easy to hit, but everybody complains about protein. I'm thinking you have to understand what your goals are. It's like what you said you have to understand what your goals are and then calculate it. So how do you give your clients the knowledge to calculate it? How do you talk that through with your clients?
Brian:that's a great question and before we get into that, I think it's important to understand what you said. There is such a great point people never struggle to overeat or hit their carb targets for the day, but to do with their protein and something that I tell people on that is it's worth understanding that things like fat three macronutrients fat, carbohydrate, protein but fat and carbohydrate work as protein-sparing macronutrients as well, meaning that if you were hitting your carbohydrate intake and your fat intake for the day, your protein intake doesn't need to be as high as you think, because your body will utilize that carbohydrate and fat for fuel and other things, and then you'll utilize the protein for repair and growth growth. What most people are looking for, whether they know it or not, it's repair and growth satiety between meals, so that you're feeling full between meals, but also hitting your protein requirements on top of repairing cells and making you feel better and brain function and health and all of that that comes with it outside of, obviously, fatty acids from fats but you're repairing your metabolic and keeping your metabolic rate up. If you're training, it's very important for people to hit that protein requirement If they're active or moving. If you want to build muscle, great. You'll build muscle, but also the more lean muscle tissue you have, the higher your metabolic rate. So if you have a fat loss goal or a weight loss goal, having your protein intake high or hitting those minimum requirements, even adjusting your macros and fats, like we've said, you're going to be keeping your, elevating your metabolism. You're going to be burning more calories while you rest. I call it the calorie burning equivalent of making money while you sleep. So even with a fat loss and weight loss goal, it's important to hit those protein requirements or even adjust them downwards slightly. You won't struggle, provided that you are hitting fat and carbohydrate requirements peak each day with it. So I just wanted to add that.
Brian:But when it comes to educating clients, I have a bit of a with the way I work with people in my program. So I've been online since 2016. So I worked for five years as a one-to-one personal trainer nutritious with people in the one-to-one, and the last several years I've been purely online with people and I have a what I call a adjust from a moving start, meaning that when somebody signs up and works with me, I'll give them a nutritional strategy based on their goals. So if they are, you know, 60 kilos, 60 kilograms five foot two and they've got a weight loss or fat loss goal. They'll get a calorie plan, macro plan, recipe recipe plan, food plan based on that and then I follow I basically eat my own cooking for the pardon the pun that I will make adjustments to that with people. So once they have their plan based on food choices that they like, based on recipes, based on their lifestyle and their schedule, based on their specific goals if they have a secondary goal or a third goal that they're trying to hit alongside body composition, which is where I primarily focus with people and we'll make those adjustments as we go along. So I have basic things that I follow, similar that we touched on.
Brian:Calories are something that I will keep an eye on, although there are a percentage of people who I won't track it with. If I'm working with somebody who's clinically overweight or obese, I tend to not track calories with those people Just to get them. We work off a little bit more of a clean eating protocol and then we course correct and make the adjustments with calories, like with calories. I think it's important for people to understand, because I never want to get lobbed into the bracket of a calories in calories out coach, although I think they're important. I think there's so many other things to factor in but calories for me as a coach, and the same for you, peter it gives us direct feedback as coaches where we might need to make adjustments for people if their body isn't responding. So it's just feedback. It's the same as somebody trying to save money. If you're looking at your bank account every day and you see that, oh, actually, I spent seven Euro on a latte every day this week. That was seven euro I probably didn't need to spend. It gives you direct feedback that you're actually spending too much money on this thing, and that's what calorie tracking and calories do. You can look at your food and go well, actually I'm eating a muffin every day, but that muffin is topped off with icing and chocolate and there's 360 calories there. I thought there was only about 100 calories in it and straight away you can make an adjustment to that, and so it's giving you feedback.
Brian:And when it comes to education, it depends on the individual. I'm one of those people that I love knowing exactly the calories, the macros, the nutrients within my food. I geek out on that. I love that area. So there's people out there like me, and some people I work with are like me. They like to know their calories, they like to know their macro splits, they like to know what nutrients they're getting me. And some people I work with are like me they like to know their calories, they like to know their macro splits, they like to know what nutrients they're getting in their food. But then you have people on the other end of the spectrum who are like what I call in books.
Brian:I was like me with my care, like if I bring my care into the mechanic, I literally couldn't care less about my care. It's four wheels on a piece of metal that gets me from A to B or A to Z, and if something, something breaks down, I don't want my mechanic to explain what happened. Whether it was in the engine or another pipe or something that went, I'm like just fix it. I was like I don't care, just just just fix it please. And some people are like that with their diet and their nutrition. They're like I don't actually need to know how calories work, I don't need to know macros, I actually don't care about any of that. I just want to lose body fat or I just want to build muscle or tone up, and those people I'll take a bit more of a looser approach with, where we'll focus on food choices and meal timings and then everything in between.
Brian:So when it comes to nutrition, as I said, I don't think it's a one size fits all. It's literally the reason that I still coach on my programs, because I don't think you can just hand a diet to somebody. If that was the case, I would just put it in a book and then just sell it in the book, as opposed to like, say, here's the diet, you know, and there's nothing wrong with that method. As I said, there's lots of trainers out there dietitians, nutritionists who will sell a one size fits all diet, and that's great.
Brian:If we follow the analogy of the shoe size, if you're a size six, meaning that you apply that diet and it works for you, brilliant. But it's just that there's 99 other people out of a hundred who probably won't work for. But if you're that one in a hundred, amazing, you found what works best for you. I would keep that nutritional strategy for you going forward, or make adjustments to it as you need to, and I think it's that awareness around it. I would love to say Peter, everybody eat this way at these times and you'll get your end results. 'll be so much easier and it would. You know, if anybody had the answer to that, they would be a multi-billionaire, particularly in the fitness industry because of body composition change and results. But it's a bit more nuanced than that.
Peter:you need to make the adjustments, but thankfully, when you do, you tend to have better short-term and long-term progress with it well and especially long-term progress, because you'll actually be able to stick to what, what you because this is the thing I mean I had someone on and I can't for the life of me remember. One of the listeners can email in. I will link to it in the podcast when I figure it out A doctor, phd in weight management. So we're talking like the guy, one of the American leaders in this field, hadamard, and he said the only thing that matters for diets is diet adherence. End of discussion. It doesn't matter what your goal is, diet adherence is key, he said. And that is the problem with most diets. For most people, it's diet adherence, because they're choosing, willingly or non-willingly, something that doesn't actually quite work for them and therefore adherence, because they're choosing, willingly or non-willingly, something that doesn't actually quite work for them and therefore adherence is almost impossible.
Peter:And it's interesting what you say in regards to the overweight or obese clients. Yeah, I personally don't track calories with hardly anyone, because I'm very much in the you want to feel better field. Okay, let's make you feel better, because that's especially postpartum there. There are a ton of postpartum weight loss coaches out there, um, and there's again. There's nothing wrong with not having that as a goal. It's just not really where I come in, simply because I think they're probably one or two things that are more important postpartum than there are, uh, than weight losses, and I think there's certain restrictions hormonal restrictions postpartum that make weight loss more difficult. Um, you know, the hormonal balances, prolact in your breastfeeding hormone and all that sort of stuff means you're likely to retain five to ten pounds anyway. So why am I fighting against nature? It'll come off when you stop breastfeeding.
Peter:Um, but I do find, with most people that I speak to, is that when we start eating a bit healthier, when we start eating more whole foods exactly like what you're talking about when we start looking at nutrient density, satiety and all that sort of stuff, the weight almost automatically comes off when they're overweight or obese. The weight almost automatically comes off when they're overweight or obese. For a lot of people and I admit there are you can overeat on chicken and kale as well, don't get me wrong, but for most people, calories are important, but they're, like you said, it's information. You sort the diet out first, eat as healthy as you can.
Brian:If you're then not losing weight, okay let's see if we need to address portion size and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, there's a million ways to do it, and I think that's why conversations like this are so important, because some people will fall into the camp that it's all about clean eating and others will fall into the camp that it's all about calorie tracking. And there's a load of different ways to potentially lose weight and reduce body fat. Whether it's producing portion sizes, whether it's tracking calories more rigidly, whether it's adjusting macronutrients so you're feeling more satiated between meals. Whether it's looking at the nutrient density of your food so you're feeling more energized and your neat activity goes up your non-exercise thermogenesis, so you're moving around more. You're walking more because you're feeling more energized, so you're burning calories that way. So there's a lot of different ways to potentially do it. It's just about finding what works best for me.
Brian:It's really interesting what you said there about the doctor who was on, and I would just add to that that adherence is so important. I literally think it's probably 80% of it. I wouldn't go as far as to say it's the 100%, because I think you can be climbing a ladder and it can be up against the wrong wall or you can get in the car and be driving to the wrong destination. I think having an idea of what you're actually looking to do is important, but then the adherence is really the final kind of piece to that jigsaw and I think, as you said, it's just aligning those expectations.
Brian:There's so many different ways to do it People that can help you whether it's you, peter, whether it's me, whether it's another coach or another personal trainer or another nutritionist there's lots of people out there who can help you. Or, if it's a case of you putting it together yourself, you just align the expectations, like I'm a big believer that you can get everything you need from podcasts like this or from reading books or reading blogs, and you'll get 80% of the information yourself that you can get really good results with. The reason to work with a coach or a trainer on a program is you're cutting that learning curve. You don't want to do the trial and error yourself, and neither method or approach is right or wrong. It's just about what's going to work best for you.
Peter:Oh yeah, especially like what you said, if you're working with a coach, as one of my lawyer clients used to put. I used to cook for this guy, uh, when he was one of my one-on-one clients and, um, basically, he was a weight loss client and he trained with me three times a week and a very successful lawyer. And, um, he, uh, he trained with me three times a week and we sorted his diet. And then he said to me actually, peter, I don't want to train with you anymore because I'm too busy, I don't have time, I hate training, I hate exercise, you know, and, like I always say, most people hate exercise. They like the feeling afterwards, they enjoy the session, but going to train is horrible and I train several times a week and I still hate it. But I, I go because it's a routine, right, it's just what I do. But this guy didn't like it and he had too busy a life. He said but I do want you to continue cooking for me. And I said well, I'm expensive as a chef because, first of all, I'm not a chef. He said, yeah, it doesn't matter. He said to me you cook for me on the weekend. So once on a sunday, I brought him like a whole stack, a whole stack of main meals for for the for the weekend, and overnight oats and all that for breakfast. So pretty standard stuff, nothing too exciting, um, and he said yeah, pete, I make 350 quid an hour. He said, for me you're cheap because I would spend five hours doing all my meal prep. So and he said and that's on my weekend, where I value my time a lot more than I than I, uh, value it at the office, so I value my time on the weekend. That's 500 pound an hour. Said you're charging me 200 quid for something I value at 2500 pounds. He said it's a no-brainer. Yeah, for him and don't get me wrong, I'm not still doing that because, to be fair, he moved away but it's, it's exactly like what you're saying.
Peter:You can, you can gain all the knowledge yourself. You can. I mean there's amazing people on youtube, there's people like yourself on instagram that are just, and podcasts that are throwing knowledge out there. That is insanely good and that is sound, but it does mean you have to spend an hour listening to a podcast in the hope that you know that little nugget that you're looking for is going to be there, or you could just spend X amount of money I'm not sure what you're charging, but it's, I don't know, it's anywhere 50, 100, 200 quid or whatever, whatever it is for a couple of sessions and just go.
Peter:You know, you sort it out, you pay for the knowledge. You have a shortcut. You don't need to buy Tom Carriage's book and Gordon Ramsay's book and Joe Wicks' book and all that. Before you know it, you've got 10 cookbooks that all tell you recipe books and diet books that all tell you different things, and they all have a new book every year. So you just you keep reading and you keep hearing different things. Where are you on those? By the way, on cookbooks in general, other than you know, the stuff works for some people.
Brian:I think with cookbooks it's funny because and again it sounds weird coming from me because I've written four books, three bestsellers, none of them cookbooks. It's funny because and again it sounds weird coming from me because I've written four books, three bestsellers, none of them cookbooks. They're all books that you read, but there's recipes in my last book, the Keen Edge, and I when I remember having the conversation this is going a bit left field. To come back to what you asked when I was talking with my publisher about our last book, they got into the conversation about doing a cookbook and having recipes in the book and I said something very similar to what you said there. I rhymed off Joe Wicks's, um, gordon Ramsay's several books is several books that are out there of people that have done that and I didn't want to just do another and have another recipe book out there. I think there's millions and some people love them, like my sister, for example. She's a PhD lecturer, research lecturer and sports nutrition, but she just hoards cookbooks. She loves them and they're kind of her version of a like collecting Harry Potter and collecting Game of Thrones, and some people have that with cookbooks. And if you love to cook and it's your meditation and it's your thing that you really love, then by all means, 100% I think there's a time and a place and buy the new one that comes out every year.
Brian:I think if you were and I have the same issue with nutrition and fitness books, and this is, I'm very aware, probably cutting off my nose to spite my face when I say this as somebody who sells fitness books and nutrition books there's a premise that the author is trying to get you to follow and there's a bias that they're trying to bring you around to. In every fitness and nutrition book that you read mine included and the problem with that is, if you consume too many of those books or read too many of those books, you get information overload and you get confused. And so, for example, my last book, the Keen Edge, is a nutrition book, fitness book, but it's very heavy on the mindset side of nutrition self-sabotage, falling off track with diets, why you can't stick to a nutritional plan. So my whole premise is the mindset and the way you're approaching your nutrition is the problem, not the diet you're following. So straight away, that anchors a little bit of a bias that this is what I'm going to be potentially promoting when you're reading this book and then if you go and read another one that says, well, carbs are the devil, or your protein is going to cause toxicity, or plants are the problem, whatever it is, you start to get this confusion and this information overload. And that's the problem with self-education, with podcasts and books, because anybody can say what they want, for the most part on a podcast, and most people can write books and either self-publish it or hybrid publish or, in my case, traditionally published, and you get all these mixed messages.
Brian:The advantage to working with me, working with you, peter, working with somebody else is it cuts straight through that noise and you can say, well, that's not applicable to you. Somebody will send me a supplement of a client that's working with me and say, well, you know, karen down the street is using this. I'm like well, look, that's not for you. You don't have this goal. Why would you add this into your regimen? This isn't going to help. Same with the food or nutritional protocol. So with cookbooks and with fitness and nutrition books in general, I think it's important to know that going in. That's why I always am very hesitant to recommend books and fitness and nutrition books in general.
Brian:I tend to bring authors onto my podcast, go through the book and then let people decide if it's going to be a good fit for them based on the argument the author made.
Brian:I think that has been my way of filtering through it, and I offer the same advice for clients when they ask me about documentaries and when they ask me about different books that they can read, I'm like look, it depends, just don't confuse yourself because there's so much conflicting information out there.
Brian:The problem with diets and nutrition is it's more like religion and tribal than anything else and, as a result, you have similar to what you said earlier, peter carnivore advocates saying that plants are so bad for you, and vegan and plant advocates saying that meat is going to destroy the world and destroy the planet and destroy your body, when the truth and the science as of now, although science changes is in the middle there's a lot of pros and cons to both of those approaches and it's very easy to get binary and black and white in nutrition.
Brian:It's something that's extremely gray and that becomes the problem because it leads to confusion and I think if cookbooks, fitness books, nutrition books or even the information you're consuming online, social media, podcasts, et cetera is doing that you probably need to narrow your field of vision and pick two, three, four people that you follow online, listen to their podcasts, consume their social media, read their books if they have books and then just take away your field of vision until you get a better understanding of what it is that you're looking to do.
Brian:So, for example, like I can listen to whatever I want, to nutrition and fitness I've been working in the industry for 10 years. I can navigate and go. Well, that's not applicable, that's not evidence backed, and I'm able to filter and navigate that, whereas if I'm reading something on real estate or cryptocurrency or something that I am proficient in, I don't know what's right from wrong. So I have to be very mindful on where my information comes from, and I think it's useful to apply that in your own life, based on whatever it is you're looking to achieve.
Peter:You know absolutely and this is an interesting thing about the Keen Edge, which I believe is your last book. Right, that's the one that came out this year Because, like you said, it's not a recipe book, it's not a. This is how you make a kale salad that will have you lose five pounds, or something like that. It's much more. Anything works for you as long as your mindset is. Anything that works for you is fine as long as your mindset is right, and all that sort of stuff. So, yeah, you have an angle because you're selling a book, as in there is something to the book, there's a bias there, but it's not a. This is the magic diet book.
Peter:Right, every recipe has turmeric in it and therefore your cancer will be cured, and and all that sort of stuff and and what I do find a lot of the when you're talking about, especially on social media. Getting great information like what you're talking about out there is so remarkably difficult Because a black and white message is so much easier to sell. I genuinely wish I could have simple slogans for everything and just have things be evil, and just have things be evil, and just the top three people, top three things I hate, or this magic recipe will do X, y, z when, like you said, especially health and fitness it's all a gray area, right, 100%, and there's an old adage in the news world that if it bleeds, it leads, and that's how social media can be.
Brian:It makes way more sense from a business standpoint and from an argument standpoint and from a tribal standpoint to make those extreme claims with one side, and that's fine. As I said, I actually don't have an issue with people doing that. It's easier for me. As I said, I probably have more of a natural filter based on my background and education with it, but I don't have an issue with that. Where I start to get a bit muddied in the water is when people are getting extremely confused that are potentially working with me or consuming my content as well, and without the context of this sells. And, at the end of the day, social media.
Brian:And I've such a love hate relationship with social media because I've got quite decent following on all my platforms Instagram, tiktok, facebook, et cetera. But I've such a love hate relationship with it because, although it's an incredible platform for getting your message out there and it's literally grown my business, I used to be a primary school teacher and social media gave me that initial zero to one leg up when I joined the fitness industry 10 years ago, so I'm eternally grateful for it. But also it's condensed messages of, and can be condensed messages of people firing and targeting other people other diets, other individuals for the sake of building up themselves and building up their profile, and that's okay. But if you're the consumer coming in, watching that and following that, you need to know similar to what you mentioned earlier about the incentive of a coach who's selling Herbalife or selling Juice Plus or selling whatever it is that there's an incentive there and that's, at the end of the day, why I love podcasts so much because we can delve into these topics, we can go deeper on things, it gives more context to situations and I think, in terms of a medium, I think books and podcasts are a very decent way of doing that.
Brian:You can explore a message. It's not a soundbite Instagram reel of attacking plant-based or attacking carnivore, attacking keto or attacking fasting or showing how incredible that plan is based on all the positive research, etc. So I think once people know that, without going too into the pandora's box of this, like there's some basic nutritional principles to follow. I think one of the most and this is going to sound so simplistic and, as someone who's a sports nutritionist as my background, I think eating well when it comes to nutrient density in foods, moving more so that you feel better throughout the day, and then recovering and making sure you're looking after your sleep. I think you do those three things to not oversimplify something that is probably a little bit more complicated. Most people will feel considerably better with that.
Peter:Well, yeah, because that's the thing, isn't it everybody? Well, what I find is that the whole have you read, like the? I think it's called the five pillars or the four pillars or whatever the book is called it's uh, yes, uh, dr strategy.
Brian:Yeah, yes, I think so.
Peter:I think, uh, it's, it's basically that you know, you, you just do as best you can on those four or five things in stress management and all that sort of stuff. I know it's a big thing at the moment. Uh, everybody's talking about stress management all of a sudden, um, this is not a bad thing because it's about time we start looking at all that sort of stuff. But it's um, yeah, if, if people manage to sort those things out as best they can, chances are they'll feel better for it.
Brian:Yeah, I agree and I think it's as you said. It's a good thing conversation to bring up.
Peter:I think stress management particularly in 2022, off the back of the last couple of years, peter for sure is definitely a conversation worth having with people and so where are you on things like because I'm rather big on self-awareness, because everything we've discussed thus far with regards to setting your goals, sorting your diet, your sleep or whatever requires a level of self-awareness that I don't think a lot of at least a lot of the people that I bump into don't necessarily have that they don't know what they're eating throughout the day, they don't know what their sleep really is like. They think they went to bed at 10 o'clock last night. They don't know what time they fell asleep, that sort of thing. I'm not saying that you should track these things religiously. You should track your meals religiously, but where are you on how these things religiously you?
Brian:should track your meals religiously, but where are you on? How do you raise your clients awareness of what they're actually doing versus what they think they're doing? By showing them that what they focus on tends to be what expands. And if they're not bringing basic awareness to elements and parts of their life that are going to enhance their health, wellness, fitness, vitality the areas that I in then they're not going to have a very successful return with my program or working with me. And, similar to what I touched on earlier, nutrition, training or moving, whatever that looks like, exercise is a very wide spectrum, all the way from a step count to smashing CrossFit workouts five days a week, seven days a week, and recovery. So your sleep and your just recovery in general, your stress management, your cortisol and your ability to not get stressed out either chronically or acutely throughout the day. So whatever stress management techniques falls into, I think it's all into that same umbrella.
Brian:I think basic awareness is important. I don't think you need hyper-awareness unless you're an extreme athlete. I used to prepare, I used to do bodybuilding shows back in 2014, 2015,. And I used to prepare people for those shows. I think those individuals need hyper-awareness on their food, hyper-awareness on every calorie, every macro split, every training session, every cardio, all the sleep, I think the higher you are on the spectrum, meaning that if you fall on what I tend to put people on just to give them an idea as a one to 10 spectrum so one to three is like couch to five Ks first training program haven't been to the gym before, don't fully understand food, haven't really had conscious awareness around food. Your three to eights are kind of your weekend warriors, your people who are like I go to the gym, I work out regularly, I eat well but I want to balance lifestyle. And you have your eight to tens, which is your professional athletes, your top tier people who this is their life, it's their highest value on their ladder rung. And I think the awareness comes down to where you fall on that spectrum. So if you're listening to this podcast, ask well, where are you on that spectrum At the very beginning, in that zero to three, which is totally fine. All you're looking to do now is bring a little bit of basic awareness.
Brian:How did you eat today? How much did you eat today? What was your portion sizes? How did you sleep? You know? How did you sleep? Was your sleep? Was the quality. Good, you know, did you sleep for six hours or seven hours or eight hours and did you get up five times to go to the toilet in the middle of the night? A little bit of basic awareness, same as your movement. Are you sitting all day or are you moving?
Brian:I think then, when you move into that kind of three to eight, you're going a little bit more nuanced. You might look at macronutrients, you might look at food choices, you might look at quality of sleep. So your REM cycles, your rapid eye movement, sleep cycles, how recovered are you feeling? You know, after those sessions, do you need seven hours or eight hours or nine hours a night to feel a 10 out of 10 in terms of a feeling of, energetically, how you're feeling after a good night's sleep? And then, if you're at the top end of that spectrum, which is a tiny percentage of people, you're obviously going to have hyper awareness on everything you're doing.
Peter:Yeah, and that's fascinating, like you said, because I come across this an awful lot and you probably do as well that people who are zero to eight or zero to three, especially because I think the four to eight kind kind of where they need to be for general health, it's the people who are starting early on, so who are just starting out that zero to three category that you mentioned. They think they have to be like an eight to 10. So they come at you like, okay, but this is what the Olympic level athlete does and this is therefore what I need to do to achieve. Yeah, if you're an Olympic level athlete and that is your goal, then sure, but this is not what your starting point is, because it becomes impossible.
Brian:Um, and it's a mic drop there, peter like applying an extreme approach for a non-extreme goal is the recipe for failure it really is, and we come across this a lot because this gets sold a lot, right?
Peter:Every piece of equipment in a gym like a TRX is a prime example for it. Don't get me wrong I love a suspension trainer, but I used to work for, let's say, a high-end chain gym in the UK, and there is only once Everybody knows I'm talking about David Lloyd right in the UK. And there is only once everybody knows I'm talking about David Lloyd right. Um, but we were told you had to do this taster session to to sell people on on personal training, um, and did you ever work in a?
Brian:box gym. I did, I worked. I worked in fitness first. I know exactly where you're going with the story so so.
Peter:So you have to then say, because these people get a free program, uh, so that doesn't make the club any money and doesn't make me any money as a pt, so I need you to buy pt. And that was the way that they they sold. You had to do taste sessions on the trx, usually 10 minutes, showing people how a complex piece of equipment works. And we had vipers and we had kettlebells, and every single taste session that you did had to be along the line of the trx was invented by a navy seal, right. Uh, viper was started by someone from a royal marine commandos and who fought five, did five tours in afghanistan and wanted to keep his core strength up. Kettlebells are used by the russian fsb as it is now, and you're talking to people who are couch 5K people who are just like dude. I just made it to the gym. I'm happy to be at the gym. Show me how to do some bicep curls or something. I'm just happy to use a treadmill. Selling that extreme.
Peter:The whole fitness world is kind of a lot of. The fitness world is kind of set up that way. Look at what all these cool people can do. Wouldn't you like to be one of those cool people and I think, realistically, the answer to that wouldn't you like to be one? Is now because I'm not willing to put in the I am not willing to put in the sacrifices those guys make. I'm a 48 year old p PT. I'm not going to train like any professional athlete is going to train. I'm not going to be like a Commonwealth-level swimmer or like Andy Murray preparing for Wimbledon or anything like that.
Peter:There is such a big gap between, like what you say, the 0-3, 4-8 and the 9s and the 10s. I mean that gap is huge, huge. I mean people, genuinely. Even I used to train a football player, professional football player, in the SPL, so in the Scottish Premier League. For Americans listening to it, that's the highest league in Scotland. A bit of it is not a very good league, but you know the guy gets paid to play football, so he's a professional athlete. Even the gap between the SPL and the English Premier League or La Liga is so big that the fitness levels of these players is incomparable the top 1% of people.
Peter:You don't have to train like Cristiano Ronaldo, that's all I'm saying. You don't have to have five, six hours a day. You don't even have to train at the level that I'm training. You don't have to go to the gym five, six times a week. You don't have to eat like I eat and like what you said. You do CrossFit and you do a lot of high intensity stuff is uh on your instagram feed and all that sort of stuff. People want to do zumba they can do zumba right. There is no one better way to do it.
Brian:This is all I'm saying and it's about what you enjoy as well. I think exercise gets over complicated. Like I think it's important to see where people fall on an exercise spectrum. Like I am one of the people who loves to work out, and always have. I came from a sporting background and I love to work out and I love to train, so that's that doesn't feel like effort to me or work Like I like to push it that difficulty or to that level of difficulty in my workouts, whereas if you're someone who doesn't like to train, you're looking at what I call in books the MED, your minimum effective dose, what's the minimum amount of working out or training that you need to do to hit your end goal.
Brian:And then, because you can be consistent with that, like most people can do two to three workouts per week and hit a daily step count or maybe get a standing desk or be a little bit more active. You don't need to go five, six times a week, seven times a week. I actually don't need to go five, six times a week, seven times a week. I actually don't think anybody needs to go seven times a week, unless you're maybe Ronaldo, as you said, or Lionel Messi or someone along those lines, and I think that's important to understand, because it's very easy to look at my Instagram page or other fitness influencers or quote-unquote, putting people under that umbrella bracket and go well, I need to do what they do, but maybe they love what they're doing and you don't. So that's an important distinguishment to make, because your approach is going to be different based on what you enjoy oh no, absolutely, and and it's yeah, and, like I said, the same goes for diet.
Peter:Right at the end you mentioned this and we come full circle because you mentioned this in the beginning. I, I don't mind eating loads of spinach. Um, just, I like spinning. I'm dutch, I like spinach is one of the few things we grow in holland and therefore I was raised on the stuff. I drink a lot of milk because I was raised on that sort of stuff. If you don't enjoy those things, you don't have to eat them. Yeah, it is. It is that simple.
Peter:It's very tempting to fall into the let's look at what this guy is eating, or this woman is eating, or whatever, and therefore that is what I should eat or that's what I should be doing, especially when you're if your life isn't the same way, because we can all train seven hours a day, right, we could, we could all spend seven hours if you have nothing else to do, and you mainly see this with movie, uh, movie actors. Um, a friend of mine is a personal trainer and he trains, let's say, let's say, the b-list hollywood star. So he doesn't train the rock, but he trains the level below that. So people who studio pays to train them for for films, for a certain look, um, and he's a, he's a wonderful personal trainer. I mean, the guy is, the guy is amazing, um, but the only worst of people have nothing else to do during the day because these guys all, and and women all get paid to do nothing else. So you know, uh, I went to watch four yesterday.
Peter:Uh, I know I'm a bit late to the party, but the last four movie, and you know, everybody knows that hemsworth looks insane, right, um, but natalie portman is in that film and natalie portman plays female four. I don't know if you've seen the thing, but she is. She looks in tremendous, tremendous shape, um, so I I'm bound to get some people saying I would like arms like natalie portman has, um, but then people don't realize that natalie portman trained three, four hours a day. Her diet was on point because she, the studio, paid for her chef and she has nothing else to do during the day other than recover. Because if you train three hours a day, you can bet your ass that five hours have to be recovery time because otherwise you're ruined for the following day. It's funny.
Brian:You say that because I did a podcast, peter, with magnus ligback, who is an la hollywood trainer. He prepares people for most of the um. I'm not sure if nat Portman's on his list, I actually know that you say it but he trains people for the Marvel movies. So he was talking about the regimen when he was preparing Alexander Skarsgård for the Northmen, Ben Affleck for Batman, people on those lines. But I had people messaging me off the back of that going.
Brian:I didn't realize that this is, and it sounds really obvious. I didn't realize that this is and it sounds really obvious. They said it to me after. They're like it sounds really obvious, but I would get DMs on Instagram, people going. I didn't realize the amount of work and short timeline that those people transform their bodies. But this is their full-time job and I'm like, yes, I was like this is literally, as you said, Peter, is what they get paid to do working with these trainers, working with these chefs, preparing for those movies and it just realigns those expectations with. If you are not in that position, then your timeline and this ridiculous six or eight or twelve week transformation that a Hollywood star could potentially do might not be realistic for you.
Peter:If you've got, you know, two kids at home and you're working a part-time or full-time job for sure and you know, like I said, that brings us right back to the beginning, that finding what your goal is and making your goal realistic for you. Um, because you know we all have the idea that I want to run a marathon by the time I'm 50, some shit like that. I just also hate running, uh, so I'm not going to run a marathon, right, do you know what I mean? I think I might well have it as a vague goal, but if I'm not willing to put the effort in, that should always be the second question Is your goal realistic for you? As far as I'm concerned, you just said this is what my goal is I want to run a marathon in August, something like that. Then I go okay, you know, it's only got three weeks, I can't manage 5K yet. So I probably should manage my expectations a little bit, because I have other things to do that fit around my life.
Brian:Yeah, I think asking is the juice worth the squeeze? Is always a good way to approach. You know like I think if you apply that with whatever it is you want to do, whether it's a marathon or losing weight or whatever you won't go too far wrong.
Peter:Not exactly On that happy note. Was there anything else you wanted to touch on, mate?
Brian:No, peter really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you so much again for bringing me on, and I know that you're serving that postpartum, postnatal space tremendously well, so, as a fellow podcaster and person who's trying to influence people in my space, I love that you're covering this as well. So keep doing what you're doing, mate, and thank you so much for bringing me on.
Peter:Lovely. Thanks very much. On that note, I will happily press stop record here and press stop record here and press stop record is exactly what I did. Thanks very much to Brian for coming on. I mean, I love Brian. I love his attitude about stuff. He's always positive, he's always optimistic and he's one of those guys that you know you spend an hour with. You feel better after the hour. He has a tremendous amount of knowledge. His books are well worth a read. You know I will link to absolutely everything the website, his podcast. Make sure you catch that if you don't already listen, and he gets a lot more listeners than I do. So I'm guessing that you know you do listen, at least in the UK he does. You know, follow him on Instagram, facebook and all that sort of stuff. You can buy his books on Amazon. They're well worth reading. Like I said, his last book, like he mentioned, is much more to do with mindset and all that sort of stuff and overall, like I said, I absolutely love the guy. So you know, check him out.
Peter:What are we doing? There isn't any news this week simply because I haven't done one in a while, so let's have a look. So, and this is what I found. See, can you tell the not so subtle editing process that I have? Obviously, brian's interview was recorded a while before this one came out, and then after to do the outro record and all that sort of stuff, then I send it off to whoever the guest is for their approval and all that sort of stuff, and then you know I had the last bit whenever things are true. So now we're at the last bit and I found it great in the news this week. It took me a while to find something, to be honest, because there hasn't been an awful lot in the news this week. It took me a while to find something, to be honest, because there hasn't been an awful lot in the news recently. It's slow new. Everyone's on holiday, right.
Peter:First of all, a little mention. I interviewed Dawn Barclay a while ago on the podcast, in April I think it was about her book called Travelling Different. We spoke about travelling with neurodiverse kids and all that sort of stuff. Well, her book is out and it's already got a start rating from library journal or something like that. So congratulations to Dawn. This is one of those massive books that I think will be very useful for everyone and I told her I'd give it a mention. So there you go. If you're a parent of a neurodiverse kid or you know someone who is and you're thinking you know this book might come in useful. It's called traveling different, uh, and then there's a whole long title after, so we'll link to it in the podcast description.
Peter:Uh, I had covid this week, so I'm sounding a bit iffy maybe, but, you know, hopefully not worse than usual in the news this week, because that's where we are, and then we'll wrap this thing up and then I can go back to you know, lying in bed slowly contemplating a COVID-related becoming a COVID-related statistic Right from WBUR, which is an American site, the nation's first vaginal fluid transplant, oversold for millions. This is an interesting article. I will link to the thing because apparently we're talking bacterial vaginosis, bv. Apparently, one in three women in the US suffers from this at any given moment and you know numbers much higher in certain groups. Again, it's a sort of condition that's much more prevalent in african-american people, by uh, according to this, and it's linked to some serious long-term health issues and all that sort of stuff. And the interesting thing is that, as with all these type of things, it's a woman problem and therefore you know it's, maybe it's it's a, it's an embarrassing woman problem and therefore you know there's no money to be made out of it. So, yeah, medicine is a little bit behind, we know this. When it comes to treating women's issues, especially when it comes to women of color issues. Right, the priority isn't there. We make little blue pills, pills, but we don't do this sort of stuff anyways. Bacterial vaginosis. So I'm guessing the numbers in the uk will be just about as high. Right, it doesn't make sense for the numbers to be 30 in the us and zero in the uk. So this is interesting.
Peter:This is, um, basically they've transplanted vaginal fluid from one woman who had a healthy vagina to a woman who had an unhappy vagina. Basically, as it says here take fluid from a happy vagina, put it in an unhappy one and see what happens. Much like fecal transplant and all that sort of stuff. And see what happens. Much like fecal transplant and all that sort of stuff. Fecal transplant Stuff is also relatively new. I remember talking about this, I think a few years ago, after listening to it on Radio 4's Medicine program. I can't remember what that's called. Anyways, it's still relatively new.
Peter:I'm not saying there's going to be a solution tomorrow. But it comes down again to the microbiome. It comes down to taking care of your bacteria properly. And you know, we're only just starting to realize just how important important this is. I had Dr Jung a while ago now and I know I've mentioned this before. He has a PhD in the microbiome and all that sort of stuff and, as he explained, it's new stuff but but it's very, very interesting.
Peter:Hopefully this comes to something. Obviously we can't be handing out little bottles of vagina juice and all that sort of stuff everywhere, but this might be sort of a do-it-yourself home kit or something like that. That shouldn't be the case, and but hopefully they will keep investing a bit of money into this. And then you know, we um, we can crack on and get these problems solved because, interestingly enough, an actual transplant according to this is remarkably simple. Actual collection of the fluid is very difficult, but the transplant is basically um as as the doctor here said, they use an eyedropper, a speculum, exam um and with the eyedropper put the fluid into vagina. They have the person lie there for 15 minutes and that's it. So it'll be interesting to see Some trials are being run in Denmark and Israel and all that sort of stuff Be interesting to see where it goes. But hopefully, hopefully, some money will be spent on this sort of stuff and we will come up with a solution. So if you're suffering from this, this hope might be around the corner.
Peter:Anyways, that's all from me. Peter at HealthyPosnatalBodycom, if you have any questions or comments, then you know you get in touch, let me know and I'll check in on you next week, when I believe I have a wonderful interview with Kelly next week Coming out next week, oh, which you're going to love. Kelly is amazing. We talk about meditation, micro habits and all that sort of stuff. She's very popular already, and for good reason. But anyways, that's me done. You have a lovely week. Take care of yourself.
Brian:Bye, now talk more than just a little tipsy. He got me wise, so I won't talk. Hey girl, give me a cup. I don't think you're strong enough. You're thinking about it way too much. Just say good night if you feel better. Now I don't know what to look it up, all these bruises in the bummy, think I know who fucked me up, who believed your little story. You can't even tell right side from up Baby girl, you're just confused. Maybe you?
Peter:should just let loose. I got a couple more for you. Just take another hit, you'll feel better now. Forget about tomorrow. Erase my problems in one way. I know how my heart is in pieces. I don't know how to get out. Oh no, how did I end up here? I'm spiraling more and more. Oh no, there, there is no happy ending when art is no control. Just take another hit, you'll feel better now.
Brian:I know he raised my problems, the one way I know.