The Healthy Post Natal Body Podcast
The Healthy Post Natal Body Podcast
FTV; Everything you should know about baby's wellbeing but probably don't. Interview with Danika Sanchez
From the Vault;
This week I am joined by the wondeful Danika Sanchez as we talk about all things to do with looking after your baby in the best way possible.
Danika is the owner of "Baby Step Concierge Nursing", in itself a fascinating idea already.
She holds a BSN in nursing, an RNC for NICU, and is certified in neonatal touch and massage.
We are talking about some of the big things that parents should really know about taking care of a baby but probably don't.
Did you know that it's really important to feed your baby through out the night and that a baby shouldn't sleep all the way through the night?
Why babies don't like fast movements and loud noises.
The right way to swaddle might not be to wrap the baby like a burrito.
You can NOT spoil your baby by holding them too much!
Why bath time can be difficult for babies and how to make it easier.
A different way to change the baby's diaper that's kinder on your little one.
How crazy it is that we have so many ante-natal classes and very few post-partum services when it would make soo much sense for baby's and parent's health and wellbeing.
And soo much more, it's simply crazy how much evidence based information she shares in the hour she spent talking to me.
I also have to say I think her idea of a post-partum concierge service is really clever and provides a services that I think a lof of parents could benefit from. I hope it catches on and, as always, I hope this sort of thing becomes available through your insurance or national health system.
Check out the Babystepsnursing.com website for more resources and, if you're lucky enough to live in California, to get in touch.
Just a reminder that HPNB still only has 5 billing cycles!
So this means that you not only get 3 months FREE access, no obligation!
BUT, if you decide you want to do the rest of the program, after only 5 months of paying $10/£8 a month you now get FREE LIFE TIME ACCESS!
This means you can sign up after your first child, use the program and recover and then still have access after giving birth to child 2 and 3!
None of this "pay X amount a year" nonsense, once you've paid..you've paid!
This makes HPNB not just the most efficient and complete post-partum recovery program, it's also BY FAR the best value.
Remember to follow us on Instagram and Facebook for the competitions, wisdom and cute videos. And, of course, you can always find us on our YouTube channel if you like your podcast in video form :)
Visit healthypostnatalbody.com and get 3 months completely FREE access. No sales, no commitment, no BS.
Email peter@healthypostnatalbody.com if you have any questions or comments
If you could rate the podcast on your favourite platform that would be a big help.
Playing us out this week; "Dear Frédéric" by Elise Solberg
Hey, welcome to the Healthy Postnatal Body Podcast with your postnatal expert peter Lap. As always, would be me. This is the podcast for the 16th of November 2025. You know, just six or seven more weeks till Christmas. However many it is, I don't I don't really count. It's not enough. Let me put it in that way. This week is from the vault, right? As you know, last week we did uh the interview with uh with Robin and Lisa from uh the Ruby Postnatal, the postpartum care facility. That like I said, um I really like the concept, I just think it should be free for everybody. Um but you know, we we are as I as I said that loudly into the into the microphone apologies, but you know, we are where we are. So we just try to have these things as affordable as possible. I think, like I said, it should be free on the NHS, and any healthcare provider should be paying for this. Anyway, anywho, this week from the vault, we're doing uh an interview I did with uh Danika Sanchez uh a while ago about everything you should know about baby's well-being, but probably don't. Um Danika is the owner of Baby Step Conscience Nursing, and that's much easier for you to say than for me. Um, we're talking about loads of loads of the big things that parents should really know about taking care of a baby, but not necessarily. So feeding throughout the night, why it's important. Um why babies don't like fast movements and loud noises, the right way to swaddle might not be to wrap the baby like a burrito. So um um, and how how important touches, and that you can can't spoil the baby, spoil the baby that way, and bath time for babies, and how to make it easier, and all that sort of stuff that someone like Danika knows, and that you might have heard mentioned in your in your anti-Natal classes, but maybe uh maybe you've forgotten, maybe you didn't get mentioned at all, or maybe you're surrounded by people that have very strong opinions on things that are not actually correct. We all know some of those. Anyways, without further ado, uh here we go. Actually, a little bit further ado. Peter at healthy postnatal body.com, by the way, if you have any questions or comments. Right now, there's no more further ado. Right, here we go.
Danika:This was a hard question to answer because there's so many things. I know. Uh, there's there's a couple big ones. So we, you know, maybe we can do more than one. The first one I'll go with is how important it is to feed your babies throughout the night. A lot of people um take pride in the fact that their newborn slept all through the night at three weeks old or, you know, whatever. That's actually not really good for the baby.
Peter:Yeah.
Danika:Uh their tummies are still little. And so, like I like to say, they don't eat three big meals a day, right? So they have to have lots of little meals throughout the day. Well, that continues throughout the night as well. They they're not eating enough during the day to maintain them throughout the whole night. And that can lead to weight loss, which can lead to dehydration, and it can lead to all kinds of other things. So um, I would, you know, for the first few months anyway, your babies really should be eating every few hours, every three hours or so. Um obviously every baby's gonna be a little bit different, but I'm gonna start with that one. I think that one's a that one's an important one because that's you know important to the health of the baby. Yeah, because because that is huge, isn't it? Because we don't think about it. We see, we think, and I always make this comparison, and I know you you're not particularly keen on it, but I always go with the babies and puppies comparison, right? Okay, so if your dog, if your dog gives birth to puppies, then you know that they have to eat every two to three hours. Um I hear it quite often when when a baby is great. She sleeps the entire night and are between from 10 till 5 or 10 till six, and it's great. And you just think, but wait a minute, if I'm up every two hours and I have to set an alarm clock when I have puppies, uh just to make sure everything is all right, then what makes you think that's so different from the baby's perspective? But right, it does it doesn't get mentioned in the antenatal classes, as far as I'm aware. No, it it really doesn't, and I think um actually I don't mind the puppy analogy, by the way. And if you think of it, it's all animals, no baby animal goes more than a few hours without eating, right? Um, it it doesn't get mentioned, and I'm I'm not sure why. Uh there's so much information out there, and maybe it does get mentioned, and it just is overlooked because there is so much information out there.
Peter:Good point, yeah.
Danika:But also, our culture takes such pride in sleep, and we know sleep is very important, right? We we all need our sleep. Sure. Babies need their sleep as well. That is very important. Have a have a topic about sleep as well. But um, but we just I think for us as adults, we skip meals all the time. Like eating on a regular basis isn't at the forefront of our thought for ourselves. So I think our brains aren't conditioned to think that way for our babies either. Um, but again, like I said, their tummies are smaller than ours. They we we can't just pack them with one huge meal and be like, all right, you're good for the day, you know. So parents that have been trying to pack their kids or that have a greedy baby will know what the end result of that is, and that's going to be a messy shoulder, right? So messy first baby, half of that food is going to come straight back. Exactly right. And then you haven't fed them at all anyway. So yeah, that's that's I would say that's probably number one for people to keep in mind. And and again, there's that balance. They do need to sleep through the day, but we don't want them to take a six-hour nap. So it's okay to wake a sleeping baby. I think that's you know, another one of those myths kind of goes hand in hand. People tiptoe around the babies, they don't want to vacuum while the baby's sleeping, they just are so, so quiet. And I I understand on one hand, but on the other hand, a six-hour nap is too long. It's too long for a newborn. You need to wake up that baby and get them to take another little meal. It's it's time. Yeah, and that's again, that goes back, and I'm I'm happy to go back to the puppy comparison. Uh as because that's what cats and dogs do, right? They wake up their their newborns and go, hey, you know, they they start fussing, the start fussing with the little one. They don't necessarily shake them uh to to wake them up, but they start fussing with the baby. And I think it's part of the the Chayu Tsu thing that I've done a couple of things on the Chinese habit of sitting the month, uh, that you might have heard of, basically, where uh the mother does nothing other than look after the baby for the first month, and that includes no hoovering and and other people come in, right? It is it's all it takes a village thing, and uh yes, absolutely part of that. Funnily enough, is that if you keep bonding with your baby for 24 hours, so to speak, the baby will start to automatically wake up because you're constantly around them, engaging with them. Um they don't get left in a little corner in a little crib somewhere for six blissful, peaceful hours whilst you finally get some sleep yourself. And obviously, the benefit of that is that you can then actually sleep when the baby is sleeping, right? If you don't have a ton of housework to do. Yes. Well, okay. I'm glad you brought that up. You brought up two points. I was one of them I was going to talk about is there's no such thing as holding your baby for too much. So you cannot spoil your child by holding them. You hold them as much as you need to want to, especially like you said, the first 24 hours, 48 hours, a couple weeks, you know, whatever you can do. Um, and then the second point you just brought up and sleeping, right? That's a big one. Everyone tells new mothers, sleep when your baby sleeps. And no mother does it because we have a list of 10 million things that need to get done. So we're waiting for the baby to go to sleep so we can rush around the house and do whatever we need to do. So I offer my parents a compromise. I tell them when the baby goes down, I want you also to lie down, but set a timer for 20 minutes. Power nap. Okay, take a power nap. It will help you recover from the sleep that you lost during the night because you're up every three hours feeding your baby, but will give you a little bit of energy to get through the next part of the day. That being said, you get up in 20 minutes. Your baby is not sleeping only 20 minutes. Your baby will sleep for longer than that. So you will still have time to get some things done after that. So there's a compromise there, I believe. Yeah, no, that's a good point. Because I'm I'm like I said, I'm very much on board with the idea of doing nothing for 30 days other than look after your child. But I'm also well aware that not everybody is. I mean, that that's an ideal, and you know, modern programs require modern solutions. Um, so it's it's not everybody can do that. So a 20-minute power-up sounds pretty much just a ticket, to be honest. Yeah, it's it's something, something to try for sure. So if so, what other thing is near the top of your list that that you come across a lot? The other thing I love to talk to parents about is swaddling the babies, right? Wrapping them up like a burrito. Um, and everyone likes to or thinks they have to swaddle the baby like a strait jacket with the arms straight down their sides.
Peter:Yeah, yeah.
Danika:And that's a fallacy. It is not true. In fact, some babies will do better if you swaddle them with their hands up near their face. And the reason is they self-soothe. They use in utero, in your tummy, they were sucking on their fingers, they were holding on to their own hands or their umbilical cords, or um the other thing I've noticed is some babies will sleep with one arm up, you know. And I always ask the parent, hey, which of you sleeps like that? And it's always one of them. The dad said, Oh, yeah, I sleep like that too. Their sleeping patterns tend to be genetic, it's hilarious. So if your baby just spent, you know, nine months being able to suck on their left hand, and then you pull them out of their nice warm, cozy place and you wrap them where they have no access to their hands, that's going to be stressful to them. They're not going to be able to have that hand to self-soothe. They're used to being able to suck on their fingers or touch their face or whatever they need to do. So it is completely acceptable and preferred actually for a baby like that. Swaddle that baby with that hand out. Bring the arm to the middle of their body and swaddle around the arm so the hand is still sticking out at their face. Yeah, that that's an that's an interesting one because indeed most of them uh most parents I see walking around is um is very, very tight in indeed. Like you said, I mean, obviously, there's a little bit of uh there's a difference usually between parents of a first child compared to parents of a third child. The first child is wrapped up ever so tightly because the level of of uh of uh let's call it paranoia, but extra care that you're super careful, um so everybody gets wrapped up particularly tight, and by the time the third cat comes, it's just yeah, it's all fine. We know it's not gonna he or she is not gonna fall out, it'll be all right. Um but it's I was not aware that that was actually stressful for the baby, but again, it makes sense when you think about it. Right, right. And if you so if you are a parent who every time you went to your ultrasound appointments, your baby had one or both of their hands covering their face or at their face, if you noticed it as a pattern, then chances are your baby's gonna want that same access when they come out. And a lot of parents are afraid to do that. They hate they are um, you know, babies do scratch their faces sometimes. And that does concern parents, but uh from a just physiological point of view, their nails are so, so thin, so thin, and these cuts are so superficial, they heal immediately. It's more important for the baby to have access to those hands and be able to self-soothe, meaning calm themselves down, than to worry about these tiny little scratches on their face that are very, very, you know, temporary. So we don't need to buy baby gloves and all that sort of stuff either. You see, if you're in a cold climate, sure. Right, right. Um, and clothes are fine. You you can have clothes on if you want to, but the mittens that allow people to like. Yeah, gloves. Uh the gloves, yeah. Yeah, or the clothes, yeah. The clothes now have a little piece you can fold over their hand so they don't have access to their fingers. And I'm not a fan of any of those. I'm I'm really not. And again, you can, you know, I'm not saying my way is the only way, but but it's something to think about. If you if you do swaddle your baby with their arms down and they're still fussy, then maybe try a different way. Try swaddling a different way and see if if they're more calm or happier about it. Yeah, because calm baby is a happy parent, you should eat it.
Peter:Exactly.
Danika:That is kind of what we're going for. And something really interesting that I noticed uh on on your uh on your website and your profile and all that sort of stuff. Is the question is there really a wrong way to bathe a baby or change a diaper? Because I thought that was just because if you go to any antidato class, you just got shown the way to right, right? Of course. Is are there multiple options? Can you actually just do what kind of what you want to do? Well, yes and no. Um, let's let's start with diaper changing. Um, yeah, you can do what you want to do, but you may have a huge leak or a huge blowout. Yeah, you want to prevent that. Exactly. Um, but and and what I'm referring to with that is, and this is really more for if you have a premature baby, or if your baby was in the the NICU, the neonatal intensive care unit, and are coming home on the earlier side. So not quite your 40 weeks gestation. You know, you have a little one. Um, those babies, sometimes you need to kind of bother them a little bit less than other babies, or you really shouldn't be picking their legs up really high when you're doing a diaper change. So there are different techniques you can use when changing the diaper. As you know, most people grab the baby's feet, lift up their legs and their bum and get the diaper underneath. You can log roll your baby, you can roll the baby over to the side and just set the diaper underneath and then roll the baby back onto the diaper. The the reason you wouldn't want to lift legs up is when you do that, it pushes pressure on the abdomen and all up into the head as well. And the smaller the baby is, the more fragile their blood vessels are. We're pushing a bunch of pressure up into their head. We could cause a little bit of a bleed up there, which obviously, you know, brain bleed is good. Um, so little things like that. And again, that would be something really more for a tinier than normal baby or a really premature one, but it is something to think about, you know, if if your baby is in the NICU or something like that. Um, as far as bathing, there's a lot of different ways to bathe a baby. You don't have to just dunk them in the tub. Um, there's something called swaddle bathing. And I love this one, especially the first couple of months. But swaddle bathing is when you you, you know, get your baby naked and then swaddle them up in a blanket that you don't mind getting wet. And then even from this point, you have two options. One is put them in the bathtub, swaddled like that, and then just kind of undo one body part at a time. And what that does is the wet towel or the wet swaddle will keep them warm while they're in the water, even the parts of them that are out of the water, and it keeps them confined and contained. And, you know, we just had a little conversation about swaddling a baby. The whole reason we swaddle them to begin with is because they came from a very tight, confined place where they got to be all bunched up. And now that they're out in this big open world, they don't like it. They want to know where the boundaries are, they want to know that someone is holding them and comforting them. So doing a swaddle bath maintains that feeling of comfort, but allows you still to get the bath done. The other way you can do it is not even dunking in a bath, just having the baby out and with a warm bucket of soapy water. You know, unwrap one arm, wash that arm, put it back in the swaddle, wash the other arm, you know, one bit at a time. And it really prevents the baby from having to be out in the cold, out in the open, you know, not knowing what's happening and not really liking it for the first few months anyway. So maybe not, yeah, maybe not a wrong way in a right way, but there are multiple ways of doing it. Yeah, it sounds like your way is, yeah, not so much the other way is not so much wrong, but it your way is more gentle to the baby. Um, and and that is, you know, because I I I do hear from a lot of of listeners or the members the stories about how my baby's no good at bath time. Um and it makes sense again. If you're like, yeah, okay, you just dunk that baby in water and it's gonna, you know, take a little bit of time. And I get it, you know, you get told you need the water needs to be X temperature, and therefore we assume that it's going to be comfortable, right? That water is a temperature, we put a little elbow in to make sure it's not too hot, feels comfortable, and therefore we assume that's for the baby is comfortable, and we don't really necessarily think about the whole experience. Um, yes, yes, exactly. And and really what you know, what you said is is it's okay for babies to cry. That's how they communicate, right? But we don't want to stress them out. Stress isn't good for babies' brains, it's not good for any of our brains, right? All the studies are not coming out. We're all killing ourselves by stress. So we don't want to start that with our newborn. So everything that we do should be in a way to diminish the stress on the baby as much as possible. So the swaddling, the way we talk, the way we hold them, the way we carry them, you know, just trying to be smooth with all of your movements. Don't try not to be jerky. Try not to like just grab a kid and pick them up real fast. Fast movements freak them out. You know, there's that moral reflex, that falling reflex.
Peter:Yeah.
Danika:Or if you do scare them or you pick them up too fast or you drop them too fast, they their arms fly out. Um, it's a it's a natural response, but it's a stress response. So anything that we can do to minimize the stress responses on the baby is just going to be better for the baby in the long term. And like you said, a calm baby is a happy mom, so or happy parent. Um, so you know, trying to reduce stress on everybody is is kind of the goal here. And that's interesting because, and I'm just thinking again, just from my own experience and all that, baby talk, right? Because when you're talking about keep the baby nice and relaxed, baby talk, I don't know about you, but when aunties and uncles come to visit, there's no relaxation there at all. It's all fast movements, right? The fingers get thrown in the face, Google Gaga, that type of who's you good boy, type similar to how you say hi to a puppy. And if I look at the way my dogs react to that sort of behavior, uh, and they know how to express fun and because they're a bit older and all that sort of stuff, I'm thinking that that is not the way you would deal with. Right, and it's it's exactly the same, right? It's your energy when you're around dogs, it's about your energy, and it is exactly the same with babies, it really is. So if you're coming in, oh my gosh, you're so cute. That is a high stress energy level, right? So it's not necessarily the words you're saying, you can talk, baby talk, but keep your voice more steady, keep your voice a little calmer, a little quieter. You can talk like this. Oh my gosh, you're so cute. Look at those little toes. Oh my gosh, you're adorable. You know, that kind of stuff. You're saying the same things, but it's the energy, it's the energy, the voice, that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, and that makes, like I said, that makes complete sense. And also, I'm I'm a very big fan of the whole thing. They don't speak English yet, anyways. It doesn't matter what you say, you're saying these words to please the parent, right? Because when you when you go visit a baby, you go, Oh, what you're so cute, you're actually telling the parents you have a cute baby, you don't have those horrible-looking baby things. Yours is very attractive, that type. Yours will be turned into a beautiful boy or girl, no problem at all. That's kind of what you said. The baby doesn't really kind of matter that much what you're saying, but it's uh yeah, it's and that's a that's a fascinating fascinating point there. So is there and again also you have you had a lot of um NICU experience as well. So is there really a difference between uh babies that have been in the NICU and and compared to those that have not, with regards to um with regards to not just their development, but with regards to how you deal with that as a parent when you get them home? It is there are there are some differences that you need to be aware of. One of them is feeding, uh the way that they eat. So feeding out of a bottle takes a lot of skills at one time. You have to be able to suck the milk, you have to be able to swallow the milk, and you have to be able to breathe at the same time. So it's called suck, swallow, breathe. Um, it takes a while for preemies to get the hang of that. And so there's a very particular way we feed them so as not to, you know, have them choke on the milk, so as to help them learn those muscle movements and that um the coordination of the suck, swallow, breathe. So if your baby has been in the NICU and your nurses will teach you how to do this, if you are a premi parent or you're in the NICU, your nurses should teach you how to do this before you go home. But there are, you know, we we feed the babies in a sideline position. So most people just hold a baby like a cradle with the face up and they put the ball in the mouth and it's fine. These little babies, that milk is gonna drip down the back of their throat. And if they're not sucking, swallowing, and breathing, they're gonna inhale it, or it's just gonna go down, they're gonna choke and all kinds of things. The other thing about that is we don't want to create any aversions to eating. And this is actually the same with term babies as well, but more so with the little ones that we don't want them to dislike eating, so we don't want to be force feeding them. We don't want it to be a bad experience. We don't want them to be choking every time they eat, otherwise, they're not gonna want to eat anymore because choking is not a pleasant experience. So, and it all has to do with neurodevelopment. I mean, really at the crux of everything I do with my babies is neurodevelopment. It's how the brain is developing and forming all those connections, and then then how that's gonna translate to this baby growing up and all the skills that they're gonna acquire. The more calm we can keep them, the better that neurodevelopment is gonna be. Anytime any of us experience stress, there's now a connection in our brain that is a stress connection. And if that stressful event is repeated over and over and over, that connection is gonna get stronger and stronger and stronger and stronger, and it's gonna be much harder to break in the future. So the whole idea is let's not form those stress connections in the beginning. And, you know, like you're saying with the even with the talking baby talk, it's not about the words we say because they don't know what we're saying, but they definitely feel the energy of what we're saying. So if I'm in there and I'm doot, that's actually creating a stress connection for that baby. That baby is getting stressed by that. That energy is too much for them, they don't know what to do with it. And and you can tell a baby starts getting stressed, not only if they cry, that's the obvious one. Um, if they start yawning a lot, if they start sneezing a lot, sometimes those can be signs that a baby is stressed out. So if you're do do do do to some baby and they start sneezing, maybe like take a step back, take a breath, and uh bring it down, bring it down a level. Rather than the standard, oh and copy the baby, right? Because it's so cute. Uh yes. So what about because that's a fascinating point because I'm really big on that whole the the connections we make in our brains early on in life or impact what we do later on in life and all that sort of stuff, right? I'm I'm I'm I'm huge, I'm a huge believer in that, and I think the science is pretty much really well established on that side of things. Well, what about noise with regards to uh hammering and getting renovations done? So say the baby room isn't done yet. By the time you bring your baby home, the baby room isn't done yet, and the workmen are going to be in there for another week hammering and all that sort of stuff. Right. Good question. Uh, because that does also affect neurodevelopment. Yeah. Um hearing. So uh hearing does sounds do matter to the babies. Again, this is one where the younger your baby is, the more protective of their hearing you need to be. And again, not just hearing for hearing's sake, but hearing for their neurodevelopment.
Peter:Yeah.
Danika:So they do make on these just adorable little baby headphones and earphones now, and sound their sound um blockers.
Peter:Yeah.
Danika:So if you do have something like that going on, then you do need to get those. Music is really good for babies, but not at a really loud level. So it's it's all about, you know, decibels, and you're actually supposed to keep things down below um talking level, is ideal, especially for the itty biddies. The itty biddies, I it's what I call like the preemies.
Peter:Yeah.
Danika:Um the itty biddies. But even the even term babies should not be around. Really, really loud things like that. Now, I mentioned vacuuming earlier. If your baby is in their bedroom sleeping and the door is closed, I say go ahead and vacuum. Okay, let them get used to regular life sounds, because they that's kind of white noise, actually. They'll they'll be able to ignore it and go to sleep. But something like, you know, like you said, construction sounds, hammering, jackhammering, that kind of stuff. Um, do your best to keep the baby away from those noises, get some headphones, leave the house, maybe during the the loudest part of it. But it that is something that you do need to be aware of with all babies. Yeah, and because again, it makes sense, but I've I know several people that found themselves in that situation where they had things just kind of cross over a little bit, you know, they had plans renovation works, and the renovation was delayed, and then the baby came, you know, when it was due, but the work is is still two months into it, and they had to they have for no fault of their own. So I'm I'm not assigning, but I'm just asking what they what they should do because it's it's it's more common than I think we are aware of. And I wasn't aware you could buy baby headphones. Oh, they're amazing, they're adorable. I people will take their babies to sports events or concerts, but they'll have these noise-canceling headphones on them. Um, so yeah, there there are things made specifically for it. I mean, old school, you know, uh solutions are fine too. Wrap wrap the baby up, put a beanie on and pull it down over their ears, um, hold them tightly against your chest with one ear against your chest, maybe. So then, you know, at least you're blocking that one side. Um, whatever, whatever you can do, like I said, if you can leave, go out to lunch, go for a walk, go do something like that for the the loudest part of the the day if you can. Um just you you know what? Here's the thing we can only do what we can do, and we're all trying to do our best. So it's just the fact that you're aware of oh, the sound, oh yeah, that's right. I really should try and minimize that however you can is is gonna be helpful. Yeah, because it's because I'm I'm I'm thinking a lot here, that's why I'm I love it. There's so many, there's so many much stuff because it's I think from my parents' generation, so we're talking a fair while ago now, right? Uh I was born in 74. So you know that that is um that's quite a while ago to where the way they were raising kids like in the 2000s to the way that we look after babies now, what we know it's completely changed. Um yeah, you know a lot more now. I'm not saying we know a lot more now, you know a lot more now because the science has uh really moved on significantly because someone finally bothered to look into it sometimes over the past 50 years. Absolutely. So do you think enough of that has filtered through to uh the anti NATO classes and through to midwives and all that sort of stuff? Because I'm always a big believer in a big fan of finding. out whether where those institutions are with regards to from your perspective are they are they catching up quickly are they still hanging on to the old ways a little bit and and therefore people are missing stuff the i think the answer is yes to all of it and it really varies wildly from institution to institution even um so i mentioned i'm here in the united states i'm in the los angeles area and i have worked at one NICU that had an amazing occupational therapist that was so gung-ho for all the neurodevelopmental stuff because she brought it there and she taught us all of it and then I moved to another hospital where I also am now kind of sharing some of those things and they knew some of it but not all of it. I talked to some nurses in San Diego, which is also a big hub here in California. They said they're about 20 years behind and there are things that they are not doing yet. And so the nurses that know about these new things are frustrated and they're trying to get those things implemented but you know trying to move a big organization is like whatever hurting cats or whatever the same so there it it really varies wildly and there are people that are very into it and on top of the new evidence-based practices and there are others that that aren't so I'd say if you are interested in it or you're wanting to learn more about it, ask the people ask your midwives ask your doulas ask the childbirth classes that you're going to you know about neurodevelopment that it that's kind of the if you can use that word if you can remember it's a long word I know neuro meaning brain right and development. So neurodevelopment is kind of the the key word for a lot of these things that we are talking about. And and so I think that all the information is available to everybody but I wouldn't say it's being filtered down to everybody.
Peter:Right.
Danika:The flip side of that is there's so much information out there. It it is out there I'm sure but it's probably getting missed. If it's not on TikTok with a cute little video and a catchy song, you might not hear it, you know um so that's that's kind of the battle that we're fighting is is trying to get to sort through all of that information and find out what's true and what's not true and what's real and what did that TikTok influencer just make up or you know um but really maybe isn't neurodevelopmentally appropriate. Yeah no and that that's that's a fair point uh that's something I always point out that there is no what I do I can't put in 150 characters and I just can't right so a tweet of mine is completely useless. It's just a slogan it's I I also can't in the same way that you know postpartum recovery which is like like my my thing um physical postpartum recovery for for women is I could give you a 12 week program but if you think that it only takes 12 12 weeks to recover postpartum you're out of your mind um that is that is just not true. Which is why I prefer podcasts and that's this is why because we can do a long form thing and you can actually properly explain what the deal is and this is why I don't do snippets um on on on Instagram and TikTok because that's the cool thing to do right I get you to say something outrageous and then we'll have a one minute clip that says uh Danika Sanchez says all parents are idiots and or something like that and then everybody goes there and hopefully I I find it doesn't really work it's it's like it's like you have to read the entire book so to speak right you have to actually uh and always work with the experts and I always think you know if someone can't talk for at least an hour about what they do they probably don't really know what they're talking about. Um that's a good gauge that's a good way of well yeah I mean I could I could because I'm sure that you can spend days and days and days talking about neurodevelopment. Right? So that means you know what you're talking about. If however you run out of all the cool things you know after about five ten minutes you don't have the library of knowledge that I would like uh my my experts and the people I I would work with to have and that's an interesting point because obviously you have your conscience nursing sort of thing and I'm fascinated by this because it it really ties in with that what I call a very sensible idea of of sitting the month or at least focus of postpartum 30 what Dr. Lau was talking about on the podcast a few weeks ago of giving the parents as much knowledge and time as they can to spend with the baby so not focusing and and help them focus on the connection with the baby and that it sounds like you're right in there but what is then then this is a question I copied from your website to be fair what is the difference between between what you guys do and I think I already know the answer and and your standard midwifery slash babysitting type thing that people can also get. Yeah yeah so uh a couple of things one is is going to be our degrees we are registered nurses I have a nursing license all of my employees have nursing licenses we also have specialty certifications for dealing with NICU babies and all kinds of infant massage and all kinds of fun things um but I think that that the biggest thing is that evidence-based practice we are up on the latest and the greatest and what the research is showing and what the research is doing and we're not just babysitters we're we we're not going to come in and take care of the baby for you because that doesn't help you in the long run. So our whole goal is to come and help you have this conversation what are all those little things that you maybe know or don't know we also can you know if we're in your home with you we can tell you if we think the baby would be happier with one hand out. Or we can show you how to do that swaddle so that it still stays nice and tight and contained but you have that one hand available we can help you you know find the feeding schedule that works best for everybody. You know are you breastfeeding? Are there issues with that breastfeeding is hard. I I tell all my moms the biggest lie TV tells us is that breastfeeding is so easy and it just looks so easy on TV and it is so not easy and it takes a lot of time a lot of effort a lot of patience. Well especially if sorry especially if if like what you're saying from a baby's developmental stage they have to learn to do three things at once and again I never considered this because you know I know how to drink and therefore I never considered there actually free more uh three three parts to that only that I I I know how to breathe for drinking my wife still chokes every now and again which takes a bit gull but we are do but you know but I like to I like to think I pretty much mastered that particular I can't walk in a straight line but I've I've got I've got down but it it never occurred to me that you know you have to a baby has to learn that a parent you know yeah it indeed it it you have to learn many things uh when it comes to breastfeeding and and and all this but indeed it is it's a still it is a still that takes practice and and it's also funny how everybody even even mothers who online will say that breastfeeding hurts and that breastfeeding is difficult and though the whole chewed up nipples and and and all that sort of stuff yeah they don't necessarily say that to their friends though or or best feed it it is not often talked about that that everybody struggles in the beginning or that it's really common to struggle in the beginning. Right right and that's obviously that's something else we need to to get out there is that please talk about your struggles and and this is where actually I think social media is doing a better job because I think on one hand it's everyone you know showing their best lives and everything being perfect but there are a few people out there that are showing the gritty side of you know the I don't want to wake up at two in the morning I am so tired. Can you please just you know just give it a bottle or whatever and that's okay too because it's hard and it takes practice and it takes patience. And I tell all my moms that your baby is a couple hours old and you have been a mom now for only a couple hours if this is going to take time. You guys need to practice together. So it takes patience which is hard because you're worried about your baby eating and we're telling you you have to feed your baby every two to three hours and but she doesn't want to eat and my nipples hurt and all the things it is not easy. And but there is help out there and there are people that can help you and if your nipples are hurting really badly you're probably the baby probably isn't latching correctly you know there's things we can do to help that um that will also help the baby eat better. So it it takes time it takes help it takes resources and it does take talking about it. And it and especially this like you said is one of those things where I think if you did confide in your girlfriend who also had a baby guaranteed she will she will have had something she went through that was tough also and we should be talking about these things in a supportive way so that we can help each other support each other and and get through it easier because it's hard. Yeah because like you said this stuff doesn't it it's it's very tempted to say that you know having a baby is a natural thing and therefore all these things will come naturally to us. However that is never throughout history actually been the case um you know in the old days we had we had the village elder or the the the the matriarch of of the family or the matriarch of the village that would show everybody how to do everything and we've kind of obviously stepped away from that it takes a village to raise a kid right everybody does it by themselves now and um I mean I'm not saying that there's necessarily anything wrong with that that is the world we live in and we have to adapt to that but it's it is remarkably difficult. And like you said it's not easy to say because I don't know about you but I I find staying on top of the studies even just with regards to postpartum exercise which is a doddle and and compared to things that are more complex such as baby care. As in my my my my my my my my studies don't change all that often some new stuff comes out but it's all with regards to the same subject and if you know how to read one subject one study then you can kind of go what are the changes I see nothing or this study doesn't do all that much and the beauty is of course for me this is also my biggest frustration in life that women's health is significantly understudied right there's no funding for it nobody gives a crap and it's complicated to do and or it just doesn't get I mean and we know studies don't get peer reviewed anyways because there's no money in peer review and all that sort of thing. But you're actually in a really complex area there's there's a lot of new stuff coming out all the time. Yes there is tons and and uh a study will come out but it's such a small sample size or you know you need to wait for a couple more to come out first. So but it's it's interesting at least there is the interest and at least there you know appears to be some dollars behind it um that we can continue to learn and and really you know I'm I'm fascinated by all this stuff but there the other part of this is sometimes just taking a step back from all of it and taking a big picture view and saying okay we have all these little things that we're trying to do for the baby but at the same time you know we're trying to take care of ourselves after having a baby. And there's only so much we can do and we're only so much we're capable of doing. And like maybe for me the neurodevelopmental stuff is fascinating and I love it. And someone else probably is like okay I just want to feed my baby and get some sleep like that that's all I can handle right now. And that's okay too you know so let's figure out the best way for you to get your baby fed and get you some sleep. Let's start there you know so it's it is there's a a big uh it's a balancing act right now in in balancing out the new information that's coming but not having to jump on board of every little new thing and getting overwhelmed so quickly that you do nothing. Right. Oh yeah absolutely and that this is why I always always recommend people work with the experts right so people get in touch with you because you filtered all that information out for them. Right. I I I always tell people listen you can get all the information I have from the hundreds of articles that I've written and from hundreds of thousands of articles that other people have written and from all the YouTube information that's out there and it's phenomenal I've I have I have 150 odd different exercise videos on on YouTube all like one minute long and they're all part of a postpartum pro and you can study them all and then you can read all my stuff and then you can say okay this is the order I have to put them in or you can just you know ask me the question in which order should I do these things in and it's the same as the joy of of people being able to work with you and being able to get in touch with with people like yourself and all that sort of stuff is that you can ask the question I have come across this or a friend of mine has said that what do you think yeah absolutely and you know it's funny when I started this business um somebody said to me what why would anyone need to hire you I figured it out by myself everyone else can figure it out by yes of course everyone can figure it out by themselves we have been for millions of years but how stressful was it? How horrible did you feel those first few days? How paranoid were you those first few weeks or months how you know how much stress did it incur trying to figure out what these cries meant was your baby hot were they cold were they hungry were they tired you know and and that's where you know like you said yes there's a ton of information out there but sometimes applying that information is the hardest part because you don't know where to start or you like you said you don't know what order to do things in. And and every baby is different every parent is different every situation is different. So having professionals that you can trust to ask questions having a good pediatrician who will respond to your emails or have your you know staff call back or your OB or whoever you know people like us, having someone you can say can you look at my particular situation please and tell me what would work best for me and and not that I can come in and I know exactly what's going to work for you. It's it's a trial and error process. But we can say you know what based on this this and this let's start here let's try this one first and see how it goes. And and that's why we also like to work with people you know over a few days or over a week because then we can try something on day one and then come back on day two and how did that go? What what worked what didn't work you know um and and then kind of tweak things from there and and continue trying until we find the right combination of things for you. I suppose it also makes sense then from for me because I talk a lot about antenatal classes on on this podcast because they are they're just a bum error like they they they just bother me. They don't contain a lot of information that I think should be included especially with regards to uh postpartum care for the mother right um but of course all the stuff that you're talking about can't uh some of the stuff that you're talking about such as you know keep stress levels down and all that can be addressed during an antenatal class. Um but a lot of the things you're talking about you can't do that anti nature you can't prep for that right it it's right you really need a lot of people really need some sort of postpartum help of someone who can kind of help them figure out what's going on. I I do think that is the best way to do to do it. I really do and we're we we are creating classes that can be taken before the baby comes um we have I have some dolls that I had made that are the weight of about a seven pounds of an average baby. They're floppy kind of like a baby is so there are things you can learn ahead of time but honestly once the baby comes people just out they're like what what what how do I hold this baby? What do I need how do we change a diaper? It is it's just very different with an actual human baby um and the noises and the movements and the all the things so you know I I'm not against taking a class beforehand. I'm really not but I do think there's more benefit even in having someone you know be with you hands on after the baby comes to really you know drive home those points and be able to practice with you hands on and say oh you know in little things why not move your thumb here or move this hand here or oh try it this way you know um it it just it'll stick it'll stick better. And then you also can just see real time what works and what doesn't work. Yeah no absolutely and and and because you know because I had a look uh when obviously when when you when you got in touch I thought okay I'll have a look at uh at at your website and then I had a look to see whether we had this type of thing in the UK this type of thing that you're offering which this I think is fascinating by the way it's it's very common in most of the oriental countries. So we're talking China Japan all that sort of stuff they're like yes of course we have that service but they it concerts and I i I mean you you call it a a conchair nursing and i i think that's an excellent excellent phrase for it but it's in the UK it's it's it's just not really a thing uh let alone in in most of Europe um where I'm of course um I'm I'm Dutch and I'm pretty excluded into the to the French and uh and and and and the German market with regards to that sort of thing. It is just not a thing and it makes so much sense for this to be available. And I'm not saying only available to people with resources because of course I understand it it's it's it's not it's not cheap but it's to for there to be like when you say you're creating classes a class is by definition significantly cheaper than one-on-one absolutely yeah absolutely and that that is the goal and there are there's something similar I think in in France and Germany in some of the European countries it's not exactly the same as the 30 month Chinese but um Asian countries but um I think a lot of European nations do at least have services that are available to you the first week or two when you get home. It this also is new here in the US there is nothing like it in the US so um and obviously I do I want to help everybody and and you you can't help everybody right off the bat. So we are trying to work our way up to that I I mean I would love for this to become a federally supported social service that is available to everybody. But because it's so new we're not there and we can't just jump in. So we are trying to provide as many resources as we can and I'm rolling them out on the website. It's coming slowly but I promise I'm working on them. But yeah doing classes doing online classes doing some in-person classes online again is my going to be my least preferable but you know it's it's better than nothing I think it's it's somewhere that you could go and at least hear some of this stuff possibly for the first time um and that way you just have a little more information going into it. So yeah no that that's very much the this it's it's it's very similar to to what I say with regards to personal training and postpartum rehab and all that as I always ask the question is is is online stuff as good as working one-on-one? No it's not even close right if if if I sit next to somebody and I say okay let me talk for you exactly what we're going this is how you should be feeling this is what we'll do next and I can tailor everything in the moment and adjust things there and there. No but that's why it's more expensive unfortunately you know and I can I can put something together for absolutely everybody and then you have to do it yourself and figure out a lot more but it is better than having to figure everything out by yourself and just hoping that the person you're hearing the information from actually knows what they're talking about. Right because especially in in in in baby care when what what you're talking about what I see a tremendous amount of online the little bit of time I spend online and I I get a lot of emails sent to me uh with regards to this sort of stuff is um let's say they are convincing sounding people that that say the strangest things in the world with regards to how you need to take care of or of your baby or how they're claiming they take care of of of their kids. Because a lot of the case a lot of the times let's remember that just because someone says they're doing something on TikTok doesn't mean they're actually doing it. It just means that they're potentially finding a way to go viral but not necessarily something that they're actually doing. Right. Or that it's the best thing to be doing for the baby or for themselves or for whatever. And and yeah unfortunately if you speak with enough confidence you sound like you know what you're talking about. But a lot of people are very good at speaking with confidence about things they know nothing about yeah bullshit purpose brains is what I always say oh that's great that's that's a great that's a great way of putting it and it's hard to discern sometimes it's hard for us you know we're searching around for an expert and how do we know they're really an expert and the best we can do is is do some research you know go to someone's websites um look at their credentials see where they've studied or worked and and and listen to your gut and that's the other thing I'm I want to bring up on my little list here is maternal instinct. And there's actually evidence for paternal instinct as well. So let's call it parent instinct um oh I have got moms sometimes that you know it's their first baby and and they're like I'm a new mom I don't have any of that maternal instinct yet I said oh your baby your body knows your baby's body your bodies were connected for nine months your body knows that baby's body you will have that instinct automatically that's what it is it's that connection that your bodies have that creates that instinct so trust your gut listen to yourself and if you have a question or you're not sure just ask for help there's there's plenty of people that want to help but you have to listen to yourself and listen to your gut and listen to your instincts on things when it comes to your babies yeah and that's that's a fascinating point because I know I don't know how what it's like over over in the US but I've heard quite a few stories from uh from my clients that I see face to face that will say yeah I'm not sure if I get when I went to the GP with a question about or I think my baby is blah blah blah fill in the blanks there. The GPs because they're under pressure from they only have 10 minutes per visit and they've got a million other things to see and you know they're not as invested as you are and they see a lot of people that they don't necessarily need to get in uh need to be there. Um advocating for your feelings is is is a huge thing especially when it's just instinct when like you said you don't know what you're doing right that's the whole you don't have the knowledge base yet if it's your first right um and to then go to see your your GP or any sort of anybody else and say yeah you know I think there's an issue here to then advocate for that position is is is a difficult thing. It is it's very difficult and it it um is takes confidence that we don't have sometimes as a brand new parent but that baby is depending on you that you're the only person that they trust you're the only person that they know and you care more about that baby than anyone else in the whole entire world. So you are the best advocate for that baby. And if it turns out that it really is nothing then okay good for you for getting to the end of it. But every once in a while it turns out that you were right and the GP was wrong. And good thing good thing you stayed on top of it you know so never be afraid never ever be afraid to speak up for yourself or for your baby or for your health because those things are absolutely important and no one else out there is going to advocate as hard for you as you are well no that's that's absolutely true. Well so final question because you know I have to know what are the best two or three bits and pieces that that you could recommend people as in okay if if anybody just listens to me these are the two or three things that I want you to take away from it is like people people log on and they like now I can't listen to the first 15 minutes of this this thing Peter talks so much like I want I want three things in the last like 10 five 10 minutes or so that I have time for to listen to in a quick snippet type podcast what would you recommend people what would you like people to know with regards to all this sort of stuff okay wow so number one is don't be afraid to ask questions. Okay find someone you trust and and ask questions and voice your concerns whether it be uh your trouble with breastfeeding whether it be the cough that your baby has or whether it be just your fear that your baby's gonna stop breathing while they're sleeping because I guarantee you there's a million other parents that feel the same way and they may have some ideas and tips and tricks to help you out with that. The other things I have are are going to be the concrete like feed your baby every three hours okay just do it for the first few months anyway until your pediatrician says otherwise don't let your baby sleep all night it's really not what's best for them. Swaddle your baby the best way for them keeping in mind that that everything we need to do is is best for them. And some babies want access to their hands let's give it to them. It's a little thing that they're asking for so let's give it to them. It's good for them in the long run. And then the last bit and these are all again things we went through before but you cannot hold your baby too much at this point. Okay there's no such thing as spoiling your baby by holding them too much. Holding your baby having that bond teaches them trust it teaches them that there is someone here that is going to come when they cry, that is going to feed them when they're hungry that is going to change them when they're wet. And that trust will build and build and build into adulthood. So um hold your babies as much as you want swaddle them the way they want to be swaddled and uh don't be afraid to ask questions and speak up. Yeah no that that's awesome because on on nuts because I completely forgot to talk about that in in in the beginning when you when you mentioned it the spoiling a baby by holding too much just doesn't make any sense to anybody who's at all familiar with young animals. As in if you you don't create separation anxiety because that's what people are concerned about, right? When when you hold the baby too much you can't put them down again because they'll they'll cry all the time. That's just not a thing. You create separation anxiety by not meeting their needs. Yes so always meeting their needs means they're probably happy to have a little break from you you put them back in the gun they're like ah thank god they finally put me down but it's there is only if you don't meet their needs will babies get upset by being put down for a little while it's it's because it's something that my my granny indeed used to always always say as well you can't can't hold a baby can't hold the baby down. But you know you'll spoil them they become spoiled and that carries on into childhood uh and into adulthood they'll become spoiled little brats and no I'm fairly sure that is just not the way it works. So thanks very much for pointing that out because I'm I'm I'm I'm very those three things I think you know are are massively common misconceptions uh that I'm betting at least 80-90 percent of the listeners listening to this and correct me if I'm wrong I'll probably get angry emails now will not have known about at least one of these things uh I hope so familiar with at least one of these things because they all sound so remarkably remarkably uh common the remarkably common myths that that don't just don't seem to die do you know what I mean? Yeah yeah yeah absolutely and that's that's what we're here for we're here to get information out let's you know shift everyone's knowledge base and and up it a little get a little more information and and let's get all our happy babies going so we can all be more calm parents yes exactly well on that happy note I will press stop record here and press stop record is exactly what I did. Thanks very much to Danika for coming on like I said she very kindly took an hour out of her busy schedule to answer some questions oh I would argue a lot of questions on some of the stuff I had no idea about maybe you did maybe you didn't maybe there are other questions that you would like an answer to get in touch Peter at healthyplosnatal body.com and I will see if I can get them answered uh for you uh if you have any You would like me to cover also check out the baby link to it in the podcast, right? Just a quick reminder that HTTP on your building cycles. What do I mean by that? If we have no application, it's part of the program that everybody else charges you hundreds of dollars or after that you want to take around to learn more and to think if you will only ever pay for another five months. So that is 50 bucks or eight or 40 pounds or and you will get a free lifetime account. The entire thing. And the program runs for like nine, ten months. I think well, I think we're up to now. I I keep adding that for you guys. You keep asking for it. And you know, you'll just like a matter of all that. So none of it year notes for day, right? So you can have your first baby do the program and then knowing for well that if you get a backup after you maybe two, three, four years from now, alphabody.com will always be there for you. You will never need to play more the program or say after and it won't cost you anymore. Um that's it for me this week. A nice bit of relaxing music from Elisa Solberg. Uh, because you know, today was all about keeping baby relaxed, and there's no point playing a metal or rap track at the end of it, right? You have a tremendous week, and I'll be back next week. Bye now.